I know it is cliche to say that with every crisis comes opportunity, but cliches have a habit of ringing true, as with our worst ever budget crisis facing Olympia, now in its second year of a three to four year run. Unfortunately, while Republicans are prepared to take advantage of this opportunity, Democrats apparently are not.
The all-cuts approach of last year’s budget, and the mostly cuts, plus more federal bailout, plus maybe a hundred million or so in odd revenue increases the governor is pushing in this year’s supplemental, is nothing if not a recipe for permanently shrinking the size and scope of state government. We’re not talking about merely squeezing out waste or cutting the fat or reprioritizing, although we’ll get a little of that too; we’re talking about redefining the role of government in Washington state… ensuring that not only does state government come out of this recession smaller as a percentage of the total economy, but that it will continue to shrink in such regards for perhaps decades to come.
This is, of course the Republican agenda, an agenda that they have been unable to win with at the polls, but which they will inevitably achieve nonetheless as long as our highly regressive and inadequate tax structure remains at status quo. And faced with an opportunity to at least move the debate forward, if not immediately enact substantial reforms, the Democrats have opted to cede the debate to the opposition, pretty much accepting their terms unchallenged.
Republicans and their surrogates in the legacy press (you know who I’m talking about, Seattle Times editorial board) have insisted that a down economy is the exact worst time to raise taxes, an assertion that many economists would challenge, but which our state Democratic leadership will not. So… um… when is the right time to raise taxes? When the economy is good? Does anybody really believe that there will be political support in the Legislature to raise taxes once state revenue starts to recover?
Of course not. But the problem is, barring another unsustainable economic bubble, state revenue will never recover to pre-recession levels compared to growth in demand for public services, and will certainly never grow as fast as the overall economy. Without substantial tax restructuring — without a shift away from our over-reliance on regressively taxing the sale of goods, a tax base that has been steadily shrinking for the past half century as a percentage of the total economy — our government can never grow fast enough to keep up with the economic, infrastructure and human investment and services our state needs to prosper in the 21st century.
Without substantial tax restructuring, our state government, the investments it makes and the services it provides, will be gradually dismantled, piece by piece by piece.
This was our inevitable future before the Great Recession, and it will be our inevitable future after. Which is a shame, because with their large majorities in both houses of the Legislature, and their control of the governor’s mansion, the Democratic leadership had an opportunity to use this crisis to guide us down the road toward the reforms necessary to at least sustain our current quality of life, if not enact a truly progressive agenda.
Unfortunately, it looks like we’ve had the wrong Democrats in leadership.
“Unfortunately, it looks like we’ve had the wrong Democrats in leadership”
Goldy is far more aware of the trend of thought in democrat party circles than I ever care to be. “Without substantial tax restructuring, our state government, the investments it makes and the services it provides, will be gradually dismantled, piece by piece by piece,” is perhaps hyperbolic. But maybe the democrat leadership realizes that some dimunition of size and function in state government is what voters want. Maybe they realize that to retain majorities they have to appeal to a voter constituency outside of Seattle metro.
The voters always say that. If you have a poll and ask ANYONE…”do you want to pay less”…or “do you want smaller government”…they ALWAYS say yes. DUH!!! But when you starting ACTUALLY asking what specific programs/functions you want eliminated, the problems begin. Everyone wants stuff, they just don’t want to pay for it.
The “smaller” government thing is a childlike meaningless slogan, like “family values”. It doesn’t actually say anything. I could give a rats ass about the “size” of government. What we’re trying to say is we want an EFFECTIVE non-wasteful government that’s exactly the size needed to do the things the people want (schools, roads, etc).
Now if the voters decide we don’t need roads, and Microsoft and Amazon should be responsible for fixing I-5 or the West Seattle bridge, then great, we can make smaller government. If the voters decide we don’t want public parks (Starbucks would pay for them out of their own generosity I suppose) then so be it. Libraries, police, fire? Those should be paid for by Boeing I guess if they feel like being generous too.
As with the Federal budget, the problem is almost no one uses EVERY piece of the government, so they think ONLY the piece they use is import and should be funded, and all the rest are stupid and should be slashed or eliminated. But they all are used by someone.
The Republicans will talk (and talk and talk and talk) about small government, but in the HISTORY of their party, they’ve never actually done it. So I could care less about listening to their rambling slogans that they don’t follow anyway. Was the budget or size of government smaller after Ford, Nixon, Reagan, Bush, Bush? No. They toy with insignificant fractions of a percent at the edges (golly eliminate the NEA, that’s 0.0001% of the budget), but then increase huge segments (military, Medicare). YAWN.
You can add the Tacoma News Tribune’s editorial boards and business section to that list.
The Gov. is engaging in race to the bottom economics, by cutting funding on services that are revenue positive and failing to close loopholes and tax exemptions that benefit people that are capable of paying their full and fair share.
Too start with we can close a few of these sales tax exemptions.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=82.08
Re 3
“The Gov. is… cutting funding on services that are revenue positive and failing to close loopholes and tax exemptions that benefit people that are capable of paying their full and fair share.”
So the fair share of someone making $180,000 a year is to pay the share of someone making $30,000. Both people drive on the roads, sen kids to school, have their home and person protected by the police and fire department and generally enjoy the services states and municipalities provide. But the wealthier iln our society must pay for the services for the poorer? This is fair?
Proud to be an Ass summed up the democrats yesterday when he asked “Do you negotiate with childish bullies, con artists, belligerent drunks, burgalars, psychopaths and smash and grab thieves?”
The answer is no. You wait until they’ve done so much damage that people vote Republican adults in to clean up the mess.
@2… no, not everyone wants “stuff”…I think that point is always forgotten.
Of course the sticking point is determining what “stuff” most people do want and shit-canning the rest.
4 – The standard of “fairness” is that after taxes, you can live ok ?
A tax rate of 40 percent on a guy making a million a year. He can live on 600K can’t he? He can live on 500K just fine. Anyone can!
Hell yes, the rich person can pay for services for the poor. Aren’t they Americans? Aren’t we all in this together?
But if you want another way to look at it, here it is:
Let the rich guy pay for costly wars of choice, fancy Star Wars boondoggle systems in Alaska and other things like that. If the terraists win or the North Koreans or Iranians go more insane than they are, the rich guy is sunk with the rest of us. Sorry the waitress working for tips doesn’t have much to spare for that.
Let the rich guy justify his higher progressive tax rate that way. And if he doesn’t like it, let him support people for office who’ll re-arrange the priorities.
You said it, not me.
Lost @4,
Yes, it is fair for the wealthier to pay more than the poor, because the a) the wealthier can afford to pay more, and b) the wealthier benefit more from society than the poor.
America built the greatest economy the world has ever seen on the strength of a stable and proactive government, not in spite of it. If don’t like government, move to Somalia.
Uhhh.. I think he meant these guys:
http://www.republicanoffenders.com/
@4
Pretty much, any meat or dairy product you buy in a store is the product of artificial insemination. And everyone of the farmers that produce that, chicken, pork, cows milk, goats milk and so on pays sales tax on the sperm they buy. Everyone except the cow-calf operations where your beef started off, that is.
Why should the beef rancher get a break when no one else does?
Why should an apiarist who buys bees and hive equipment and sells honey at the wholesale level not have to pay sales tax when they buy bees and equipment, when the person that produces honey to feed their family or to directly retail does?
Washington’s tax codes are full of stuff like this.
@9
Thanks!
While that’s is true I was really talking about why should one group get a break on taxes (generally a big producer) while another group has to pay taxes (generally the craft level and home producer).
I truly don’t understand this, and I’m not trying to be in any way rude.
One person says “The standard of “fairness” is that after taxes, you can live ok ?” This is the ethos of the mafia squeezing neighborhoods for protection money. It is not that of civil government.
The wealthy benefit more from the system because they put more into it. They invest in businesses, put money into banks where it gets used to buy homes, start other businesses, and generally better society as a whole.
More importantly they had no advantage you or anyone else doesn’t. If they could succeed in this society, so can you. Why then should they be punished for doing so?
Since the Republican’s are fond of quoting Adam Smith we should point out that it was Adam Smith that first endorsed progressive taxes.
Re 14
Everyone is wrong sometimes. Adam Smith is presumably no exception.
Goldy,
If you don’t like the inequity of our system so much, move to Europe.
13 – I’m sorry. If you don’t feel good about your tax dollars going to health care for poor kids, head start, stuff like that..
Again I repeat..
You can feel good about your higher progressive tax rate funding wars of choice you can watch highlights of on Faux News, torture, fancy weapons systems that hopefully will never be used and the rest of that..
And if you don’t like those specific things, please support folks for office who have the stones to end funding for those things and will lower your high end tax rate.
As it is, the most STUPID idea I can think of is to levy a 20 or so percent flat tax rate. It means a tax INCREASE for the waitress working for tips and a tax CUT for the multi-millionaire and up..
Funny how that works.
Oh great, they put dollars in.. They ever put their back, their nerves into anything? Do they ever have to look at the prices on an eatery menu and leave if they’re a bit too high?
Sometimes yes, most times NO…
We’ve cut their capital gains taxes? Where are we now?
We’ve cut the taxes they pay on dividends. Where are we now?
All of these kinds of tax cuts were highly touted as stimulating the economy.
Where are we now??
Government should be about providing the those things individuals couldn’t. I can’t build roads, maintain a private fire department or prepare my children for college (although most schools can’t seem to either, that’s another discussion.) It’s also about government performing functions individuals shouldn’t. A private army or private law enforcement would be a bad idea for the democratic system. If you don’t believe me look at Blackwater. (Yes I can criticize my party when it messes up. It’s a perk of being a Republican.)
To be briefer, government should provide a fair playing field. Whether a person wins the game is up to them.
Unfortunately, it looks like we’ve had the wrong Democrats in leadership.
Well, gee, Goldy, if the election in Massachusetts goes according to what the polls are predicting, I think you’re a lot more right than you know.
On the other hand, if your judgment the first time around was so flawed, I’m not sure why we should trust it a second time . . .
Re 18
A study on millionaires was done a few years back. The aim was to see how people of wealth live.
Most millionaires who made their own money owned 2 suits. The car they drove was 5 years old on average. The home they owned was worth $230,000 on average. They are wealthy largely because they control their money, not the other way around.
And that misses the point. They benefit equally from government services and should not have to pay more. If the poorer members want to lower thier taxes by your means of calculation they have every right to work harder or smarter and make more money.
‘Unfortunately, it looks like we’ve had the wrong Democrats in leadership.’
Understatement of the year! I’m impressed you actually admit it Goldy. No one is stopping you from sending the State a check to help. Oh wait, one has to be employed to earn money. I forgot. Good luck!
Re 18
“Oh great, they put dollars in.. They ever put their back, their nerves into anything?”
The owner of the electrical contracting firm that did a large freeway project on I-90 got into a dispute about contractually scheduled payments with the WSDOT. He mortgaged his home, his business and everything else he owned of value to pay costs while the dispute was settled. He won the dispute, but had he lost he would have been ruined. That answer your question.
So, the govm’nt runs into some money troubles and the first thing they want to do is cut the state parks budget. That save the govm’nt money right?
Wrong!
The state parks and most (maybe all, I’m saying most because I have see the figures for all the programs) of the programs run by Fish and Wildlife are revenue positive. The state gets back more money than it puts in, in these programs.
Quoting from an email I received from F&W about their razor clam fishery.
F&W is up about 112K on licenses alone. This doesn’t include the revenue generated by stays in state parks and motels on the coast or taxes on anything bought while people were out on the coast.
Quoting from the TNT:
Cutting back on parks and F&W programs costs the state money, it doesn’t save it.
Bingo! We have winner…
What do progressives want? Education, health care reform, repair of crumbling infrastructure spending, a little new infrastucture would be nice, the elimination of wasteful spending (Iraq War sure had a lot of that), a fair trade policy, clean environment, clean energy for all, a foreign policy that’s not batshit insane.
All of that supports a level playing field.
One reason some self-employed contractors oppose tax reform is they don’t pay B & O tax because they don’t comply with state reporting requirements. To them, any tax reform is a net loss, because these tax evaders are paying nothing right now. A few of them even bill their customers for “sales tax” and pocket the money, never reporting or remitting the money to the state.
The B & O tax hurts small businesses of all types. The most widely discussed tax reform proposal would eliminate the B & O tax altogether. If someone tells you he doesn’t mind the B & O tax and it’s not hurting his business, the chances are pretty good he’s a tax evader.
Re 24
There’s an old trick in civic budgets. My sister learned this while serving on a county council, and it still disgusts her. You need cuts and want to accomplish them in one particular area, say tax benefits to producers of unicycles. You don’t attack the tax benefits, because the unicycle manufacturers will cry and scream about that. You threaten to cut a universally popular program like parks or public safety. Then you use the wider public outcry to justify the cuts where you really want them.
@24
Oops haven’t seen. I need to to get my keyboard fixed.
23 – Doesn’t sound like he was all that rich.
Michael Duncemire – that’s rich. Oodles of cash to spare to fund Tim Eyman’s loathsome initiatives and whatever lifestyle his watch business can’t fund.
@27
The Govm’nt really did cut State Parks, F&W, and a host of other programs that were revenue positive this time around.
Re 26
“One reason some self-employed contractors
oppose tax reform is they don’t pay B & O tax.”
Maybe, if they are really, really stupid. Businesses get closed for that. Maybe some business owners are tax cheats, but only the stupid ones who want to lose everything to save a few buck now. These people usually run their businesses so poorly anyway that they really aren’t part of any real discussion of how successful businesses should pay taxes.
@29 You don’t get rich by spending your own money; you get rich by keeping whatever money you can get your paws on, and spending other people’s money, often without their knowledge or permission. Whatever Dunmire is, he’s not stupid. But he keeps throwing money at Eyman initiatives despite the remarkable unproductivity of his past expenditures on Eyman’s campaigns. Which should make you deeply suspicious of where that money comes from. I’m not accusing anyone of anything; I’m just curious, that’s all.
Re 26
My experience? If you want to get any local business owner hot under the collar mention Washington State B&O.
21 – Then I hope those “millionaire next door” types have not profited from Iraq War contract abuse and support at the very least the Defense Department passing a GAO audit with flying colors.
At this juncture, that day seems to be a long way off.
GDP is linked to the price of oil, oil goes up GDP goes down. Until de-link our economy from oil we will will be living in a much smaller economy. The only elected office holder I know of that is both talking this up and try to do something about it is the mayor of Spokane, Mary Verner.
I think we’re in a smaller economy from here on out.
Re 34
I can’t speak for anyone else, but any true conservative should support exactly that. They pay the taxes that go to those contractors. Why in the world woulnd’t they want to know that it’s as well spent as conditions permit?
I need to stimulate the economy to the tune of one new keyboard…
Goldy–
It is a shrinking of the State Government FROM UNSUSTAINABLE LEVELS!!
Gregoire & the Democrats spent money, gave increases in salaries & benefits, created new programs etc. like drunken sailors…totally unsustainable. Pandering to the Union of the people who are supposed to be serving us.
The worm has turned!
Tuesday, January 19, 2010
The bonehead Obam-Mao is clueless why people are so angry…CLUELESS!
Gibbs tried to blame Bush again this AM.
Won’t work.
Good luck in Massa2shits!!
Nearly half of the state budget goes to K-12 education. Because most, if not all, other states fund schools locally with local school taxes instead of funneling the money through a state agency, Washington’s unique school funding process makes our state budget look twice as large as it actually is. Therefore, measured on a per capita basis, we already have one of the smallest state governments in the nation.
I’m thinking we should eliminate state involvement in school funding. It’s an illusion anyway, so why not just turn over the taxing authority that presently supports schools to the school districts themselves, and let them collect and administer school taxes?
Oh, sure, this would wipe out the equalization formulas and force the hick counties to support their own schools instead of living off King County taxpayers. But, um, that’s the whole fucking idea of my proposal! If we let them support their schools at whatever funding level they choose, and I don’t have to subsidize them anymore, I’ll get the tax relief they think I so richly deserve!
36 – Yeah. Where was the equivalent of the Truman commission for checking Iraq War contract abuse?
What conservative Republicans spearheaded that?
As far I know – NO ONE. Please prove me wrong.
@39
Yep! And those hicks will drop out of their hick schools, get pregnant, cook meth, and so on…
‘Oh wait, they’re already doing that. Never mind.
39 – Roger you’re a treasure..
It’d be a disaster but it’d really take the wind out of right wing sails.
@38 “Democrats … gave increases in salaries & benefits”
Well let’s see. Before Gregoire took office, state workers had gone for two budget cycles with no COLAs, and thanks to the recession, they’ll go at least two more budget cycles with no COLAs, so if they hadn’t recceived a modest COLA in 2005, they would have to go for TEN YEARS with no inflation adjustment. I’m sure glad I quit when I did, because state pay has always been way below market to begin with, and when people like Klown think public servants should work for free, well, I don’t want to be around for that. Hell, I can earn that much by sleeping in.
Do the right Democrats even exist, except as a tiny minority? Or is it time for the Libertarian Progressive Party?
Hatred of workers is a consistent theme running through conservative ideology. You see this in “lost” firing 80% of his workers and Klown complaining about wages that are already too low.
This antagonism is startling when you consider the employer class depends on workers for its income. Undoubtedly, people like “lost” and Klown see the workplace as a zero-sum game: “Paying you wages is taking from me.” Of course, it never occurs to them that profiting from someone else’s labor is taking from them.
“Lost” told us he buys houses, fixes them up, and resells them. He also told us he doesn’t keep 4 out of 5 workers he hires. “Lost” obviously has high standards: He expects workers to come to him fully trained and knowing how to do their jobs, have their own tools, and be able to produce high quality craftsmanship while at the same time working quickly so as to sustain a high level of productivity. And I’m sure none of his workers are salaried; they get paid by the hour or by the job.
Which means to work for him, you’re effectively an independent contractor, and in a very real sense you have to be an entrepreneur: You must invest in your education, training, and tools; you must provide your own health care, retirement, and vacation and sick benefits; your income goes up or down with the business cycle; etc. In all respects, you’re an independent businessman when you work for “lost.”
So why should you work for wages? If I were installing flooring or cabinets for “lost” I would charge him the going contractor rate, which is around $50 to $70 an hour. No way would I work for that guy for $10, $15, or even $20 an hour. Why should anyone? If someone like “lost” expects you to do everything an independent businessman does, and bear all the expenses and risks of an independent businessman, then he should expect to pay for your services at a business rate, not a laborer’s wage.
If a contractor wants to pay $10 an hour, then let him hire unskilled entry-level laborers, train them how to do the work, provide all necessary equipment and tools, and closely supervise their work — because that’s all anyone can expect to get for $10 an hour.
“More importantly they (der rich) had no advantage you or anyone else doesn’t.”
Well, losty is at it again, confusing some thrifty guy next door who saved religiously and lived frugally, maybe owned a small rental or two–over 40 years, it could be done. In fact, many have. But these folks are likely asset rich and cash poor. They don’t have big incomes.
The richest 1% own 38% of all wealth in this country. Most of them got it by winning the birth lottery. A million $ income/yr. is pretty damnned easy when you’re sitting on top of a $100m in assets. Anybody could do it.
Lost argues otherwise. He says it’s “not fair” to tax the coupon clippers of this world. OK–then let’s try this: All income should be taxed at ordinary income rates; limited liability for LLC’s and corporations should be abolished; FDIC insurance should be abolished; staggered elections of corporate boards should be abolished; firing somebody for trying to organize a union should be a capital offense; tax avoidance should be a capital crime; all tax exemptions should be abolished; markets that do not capture externalities should be nationalized….I have many more.
You want a level playing field Lost? Then by all means let’s have it. But no, you trot out your little fairy tale sob stories, shit that would make Horatio Alger (who usually got a leg up by marrying the bosses daughter) blush with shame, and all the while you are doing nothing but providing cover for corporate looters who have “socialism for the rich” in this country, a conservative nanny state. The bank bailout is just the latest and most egregious example.
My hat’s off to the schlub who has a rental empire consisting of three houses and is not beholden to anybody. But that’s not the guy who’s in my sights. Not by any stretch.
“Unfortunately, it looks like we’ve had the wrong Democrats in leadership.”
I think it’s been obvious for a long time that we need to restructure the Democratic Party before we can hope to restructure our state finances. We will never get anywhere as long as our party’s gubernatorial candidate runs on a promise to not fix the state tax system.
@1 ““Without substantial tax restructuring, our state government, the investments it makes and the services it provides, will be gradually dismantled, piece by piece by piece,” is perhaps hyperbolic.”
Unfortunately, it’s not. As Goldy has documented in previous threads, the long-term trend in state government is ever-declining spending on a per capita basis, which inevitably will mean lower quality education and fewer public services for our citizens. This ultimately will harm our economy and hurt businesses.
In Goldy’s world – you get punished for being a success because it’s just so unfair to the poor!
@49 In your world no fantasy is too silly to put into words.
@1 “But maybe the democrat leadership realizes that some dimunition of size and function in state government is what voters want.”
Hmmm, if that were so, they would have elected Republicans. Instead, we have a Democratic governor and overwhelming Democratic majorities in both houses of the Legislature, plus Democrats in 8 of the 9 statewide elective offices.
If there’s one common theme you can always count on finding in troll comments, it’s idiocy.
@4 “So the fair share of someone making $180,000 a year is to pay the share of someone making $30,000.”
It actually works the other way around in this state — the guy making $30K is paying the freight for the guy making $180K.
Percentage of Income Paid In State/Local Taxes
Top 20% of Households: 3%
Bottom 20% of Households: 17%
@47
Goldy showed why we need to restructure the Democratic party a few posts back:
Personally, I don’t think either party will restructure in time and in a ways that preserve them for the future. There will be some form “political parties” around. But, their structure and function wont resemble the current ones, that probably functioned quite well in 1915.
@4 “So the fair share of someone making $180,000 a year is to pay the share of someone making $30,000.”
It actually works the other way around in this state — the guy making $30K is paying the freight for the guy making $180K.
Percentage of Income Paid In State/Local Taxes
Top 20% of Households: 3%
Bottom 20% of Households: 17%
As I said, no assertion is too idiotic for a troll to post it. Our trolls are shameless.
@5 See last sentence of #54.
Obviously, it’s futile to sit down with someone like “lost” and try to negotiate solutions to our state’s problems. All we can do is outvote them at the polls, enact what we consider fair policies with our party’s votes alone, then beef up the state’s enforcement agencies and go after those who believe they only have to obey laws and pay taxes they agree with. This may include hiring more prosecutors and building more jails.
A few years ago I had a barber who constantly ranted against government and taxes. Then one day he disappeared. I heard later through the community grapevine that he was in trouble with the IRS. I assume he’s now cutting hair for the Bureau of Prisons for 10 cents an hour plus room and board.
Re 45
You misinterpret most of what you write and infer incorrectly the rest.
I don’t hire 4 out of 5 workers. They don’t have the skills needed and no, I can’t spend time training a man who claims to be a plumber in what a P trap is. This was true when I was in management at a mid sized construction company. It’s less true now, as a lot of highly skilled tradesmen are out of work due to the economy.
In all the time I’ve managed crews I’ve fired one person.
I was talking about, only you didn’t understand, the attitude that takes a man from sweeping floors to running a job. That’s what I said was lacking, and I stand by that. You consistently blamed the employer for not being able to promise a 30 year career. I blame the employee for not making career plans that take account of that fact.
Re 46
You’ve got it backwards. Union organizers should be the ones with the price on their heads.
So how do you explain the Asian immigrant who comes here with nothing and owns rentals in 10 years? Luck, I imagine. It’s impossible for you to credit thrift, hard work and self abnegation for personal success.
@6 There isn’t anything any government does that everyone wants. On the other hand, there are lots of special interest groups who want things from government that most people don’t care about. Government is a vast collection of revenue sources and programs desired by a vast array of voter blocs. Of course, this is too complicated to be understood by the wingnut mind.
Re 56
And we’re right back where this started. You’re absolutely right, and for whatever reason that must be the thinking that goes into state dems not aggressively tackling tax reform. They feel based on polls or instinct or their magic 8 ball that the voters wouldn’t stomach it.
@46 “Born in Chelsea, Massachusetts, the son of a Unitarian minister, Alger entered Harvard University at the age of 16. Following graduation, he briefly worked in education before touring Europe for almost a year. He then entered the Harvard Divinity School, and, in 1864, took a position at a Unitarian church in Brewster, Massachusetts. Two years later, he resigned following a pederastic scandal involving two teenage boys. He subsequently retired from the ministry entirely and moved to New York City where he formed an association with the Newsboys Lodging House and other agencies offering aid to impoverished children. His empathy for the working boys of the city, coupled with the moral values learned at home, were the basis of his many juvenile ‘rags to riches’ novels. He died in 1899.” — Wikipedia
In other words, Horatio Alger, author of “rags to riches” stories, was a kid who started out in life with a private school and Harvard University education that had been given to him at a time when most males didn’t go to school beyond sixth grade if at all; was able to spend his post-graduation year touring Europe; then was fast-tracked into a sinecure in the religion business, where his father had connections, which he left only because he got caught molesting two boys; and later pursued writing as more or less a hobby.
Doesn’t exactly sound to me like a guy who pulled himself up by his own bootstraps.
You learn something new every day. Until a few minutes ago, I didn’t know Horatio Alger was kicked out of the ministry for molesting boys.
@58 “Union organizers should be the ones with the price on their heads.”
Why should it be a crime for workers to get together and decide among themselves what they’re willing to work for, instead of letting employers dictate what they have to work for?
In fact, there was a time in our country when it was. In the 19th century, many workers were prosecuted for criminal conspiracy merely for trying to form unions. That’s the kind of world conservatives want to take us back to. I mean, here we have “lost” saying, in Year 2010, that union organizers should be executed.
Remember that when you vote.
“So how do you explain the Asian immigrant who comes here with nothing and owns rentals in 10 years? Luck, I imagine. It’s impossible for you to credit thrift, hard work and self abnegation for personal success.”
I stated otherwise and explicitly gave credit where credit is due. Your manifest refusal to acknowledge this shows only that you argue dishonestly.
But having seen your stuff, I’m not surprised.
RR @ 61: The dates also provide a back-story. Hiss would have been about age 29 at the start of the American Civil War. I couldn’t find the date when he started Harvard Divinity School, but he graduated and received his church appointment in 1864 – a year after the first national draft went into affect (1863-1865). In New York City the Draft Riots took place in late July to early August of 1863, if my memory serves me correct – one corps of Union troops were dispatched from the Gettysburg area to assist in putting down the riots.
Of course, as the son of a minister, it would be natural for him to become a minister also (more so in those days, than now). But I also suspect that his father made arrangements to place him safely in Divinity School to keep him out of the war. I’m not aware if there was a ministry exception to the Union draft, but since there were lots of exceptions, it might be so.
No matter how bad the Democrats get, I could never vote for a Republican, and maybe that’s why the Democratic electeds are so bad. We’d have better Democratic Party if we didn’t have such a terrible Republican Party. So, the internal problems in our party are the Republicans’ fault.
@61
Spoiled and a pederast! If he were alive today he’d be a Republican.
Hey, losty. You’re not Piper’s kid are you? Nah, you sound older. How’s the house flipping business these days? Paying you help piecework?
@67 Of course he would. The only people who tout the virtue of hard work are Republicans, because they profit from other people’s hard work.
“So, the internal problems in our party are the Republicans’ fault.”
Perfect typification of the attitude of the left! Thanks Rabbit. My problems aren’t mine. They are yours’, so you better fix them. That about sum it up, Rog?
You’re a laugh a minute, bunny.
Re 68
Someone once said, ‘when everyone else is getting greedy get scared. When everyone else is getting scared get greedy.’
The house flipping business is going well. I’m so grateful for your concern.
@65 That’s an interesting point. Wikipedia says, “After attending Harvard Divinity School from 1857 to 1860, he took a ten-month tour of Europe and produced works of a patriotic nature.” It seems Europe was a good place from which to publish patriotic works if you were a draft-age male in 1861.
@61
I had a bunch of great aunts and uncles that were born between 1900 &1915. The had a saying, “I can read reading, but I can’t read writing.” Meaning that many of them could read printing, but couldn’t read cursive. Prior to the GI Bill we weren’t a very literate country. You can still see this in the, rather fervent, anti-intellectualism that pops up from time to time.
Our current tax structure and the type of society that it creates are driving us back to the days of “I can read reading, but I can’t read writing.”
Could we at least have a tax structure that doesn’t penalize the small craft level producers of foods and goods (RHP has talked about how B&O taxes relate to this)?
Personally, I think that tax wise, the people doing things at the craft and subsistence level should have an advantage over the larger producers. The big folks have an advantage do to their size. It would even things out a bit if you didn’t have to pay sales tax on fabric for making your own clothes or seeds for growing your own food.
Well, I’ve got work to do. I’m going to start the afternoon by evicting a widow with 4 kids for non-payment of rent. That old cow will be out on the street with those infants before you can say ‘Jack Robinson.’ Then I’m going down to the food bank to laugh at people there and maybe at the unemployment office as well. After that I might try to ruin the life of some dope of a subcontractor by writing a ruinous contract with him. Yep. It’s good to be rich.
And that sums up what most of you believe, I think.
“So how do you explain the Asian immigrant who comes here with nothing and owns rentals in 10 years? Luck, I imagine. It’s impossible for you to credit thrift, hard work and self abnegation for personal success.”
Leverage.
And I wonder how many of those Asian immigrant slumlords have defaulted their subprime loans?
“The owner of the electrical contracting firm that did a large freeway project on I-90 got into a dispute about contractually scheduled payments with the WSDOT. He mortgaged his home, his business and everything else he owned of value to pay costs while the dispute was settled. He won the dispute, but had he lost he would have been ruined.”
If he was the prime, he undoubtedly bonded the Work, or even if not, many GC’s require bonds from their major subs. So if this electrician went to that length, that could be why. Otherwise his surety would own his house. So no big sacrifice there unless you provide more detail.
I see lots of fly-by-night subs. They hate paperwork. They hate unions. They hate the government. But they sure love feeding at the public trough on public works now that the banks have shut down the private developers (another “industry” full of crooks). When they start to hit the wall, there is no lie they are incapable of trying to run past you. They have to be monitored all the time for contract compliance, you know, little things like paying their worker benefits or keeping current with their suppliers. They cut corners. They don’t clean up after themselves very well. They argue incessantly about what is or is not in their contract.
And then they will brag endlessly about being “self made men”.
Sometimes I wish they’d just all go Galt. Life would be so much simpler without them.
When real estate markets falter, the guys who accumulate strings of rental houses often are the first to walk away from their loans.
@74: You forgot to mention running down a few stray dogs and stealing ice cream from children.
It must be nice to have all that spare time on your hands. Use it wisely, it is more valuable than all the wealth in the world.
Or some say.
These guys often also are property tax and utility bill deadbeats, and invariably are bad neighbors. They don’t maintain their property and inflict bad tenants on the neighbors because all they care about is making money. They make life miserable for surrounding homeowners and drag down property values in neighborhoods where they operate. Most of these rental-house operators are a plague on society.
@74 What I believe is that you’re not working when you’re posting on HA, which seems to be most of the time, daytime or evening.
Yeah, we’ve cut to the bone:
http://www.soundtransit.org/Do....._FINAL.pdf
“Behind every great fortune lies a great crime.”
—Balzac
…and that goes for a good deal (not all) of those little ones, too. Usually you find out about it when the heirs sue each other over the estate. But it makes you wonder. If they’re so darned smart, farsighted, and ambitious–you know John Galts eager to spread their inspirational and ever so valuable wings–why would they bother? I mean you’d think they (per LOST) would have everything already figured out, their future foredained, planned to a ‘T’, and it wouldn’t be worth their time and energy.
But you have to admit that waiting for daddy or mommy to die sure does take a lot of anxiety away, and planning one’s life under those conditions is fairly costless.
Gregoire, because of her refusal to address the state’s structural tax issues, is on track to become the governor who presided over Washington’s decline.
Sales tax revenues will trend ever lower. That’s because consumption, which depends heavily on wages, is weakening as an economic force.
Business Week recenty ran a cover story pointing out that things will only get worse for wage earners in coming years. Now AOL’s financial news arm has joined the chorus:
“Not only are many of the jobs that have been lost unlikely to come back, but those that do are increasingly likely to be freelance, temporary or contract positions rather than permanent jobs with benefits. …
“[J]ob recovery is getting increasingly slower and less robust with each passing decade. The reason: The U.S. economy is undergoing deeply structural changes.
“Since the early 1990s recession, every recovery in hiring has been slower than in previous decades. … In the 1970s and 1980s, job layoffs were in effect temporary. … Not so the current era. … Faced with a global business environment with few if any guarantees of predictable growth, businesses large and small are seeking flexible labor with few overhead costs: Part-time, freelance, contract and temp workers. …
“[W]ages are under pressure, too. Indeed, for the 80% of the private workforce which is non-professional and non-supervisory, wages are 9% lower than they were in 1973, … adjusted for inflation.”
http://www.dailyfinance.com/st...../19319743/
Roger Rabbit Commentary: What workers face is employer demand for higher skills coupled with less employer-paid training, fewer benefits, less job security, and lower wages. Because wage earners form the backbone of America’s consumer economy, this has to translate into lower future consumption — even if consumers didn’t have to cope with staggering debt loads, pay more of their own health care, and boost their retirement savings, all of which are additional negative pressures on household consumer spending.
The upshot is that consumption spending must fall, and sales taxes on goods will produce an ever-shrinking revenue stream, which will force even deeper cuts in state spending in the future. Given that half of state expenditures go to education, and most of the rest to transportation infrastructure and core services like law enforcement and prisons, continued reliance on the sales tax means the end of civilization in Washington State.
We need a governor with the clarity of vision to see this happening, and the political leadership skills and personal will to do something about it. Which is not our current governor.
Re 80
Not really. I can answer your nonsensical arguments and petty little rants with very little attention detracted from my work.
But what is odd is that you seem to want it both ways. If I take off to spend family time on a Saturday night or go hang out at my cabin I’m running away from your devastating arguments. Which is it?
Re 82
“Proud to be an Ass has no more notion of how money is made than of how to darn socks.”
Lostinaseaofblue.
@85: How would you know about my abilities with respect to either one? Well, you simply don’t, but that’s the way all your arguments are—long on assertions, short on facts or thoughtful analysis.
But then I suppose you will claim to make lots of money (or maybe, like Zig Ziglar–you “know”). Many of the trolls posting here make similar boasts. Not a one of them have provided anything in the way of verifiable evidence to back their silly boasts (I see you haven’t either). It shows a real lack of imagination.
But they will criticize Goldy for “not having a job” or the worst sin in the world “not making any money at it”…it being he’s one of your fellow entrepeneurs.
It’s really pretty funny, actually. Who knew there were so many rightwing wingnuts posting on liberal blogs–and shazzam! they are all richer than Croesus!!
I await word from those that have failed. After all, the overwhelming majority of them do. Look it up, smart guy.
@83: lostinaseaofnarcissism can provide no answer to your analysis other than to assert the tired old nostrum about rising tides raising boats….
Ya’ know. I’d bet an ebbing tide lowers them all. Wouldn’t you think?
What say you losty? Why do conservatives promote demonstably failed policies? Why do you hate America?
I’m proud to say that today I used my layman’s knowledge of County stormwater code and state SEPA regs to bring about a screeching halt to a BIAW developer’s project. Not only that, but I nailed the stupid fucks on lack of permitting! Not a single fucking permit! Further, a wingnut I intensly dislike committed a misdemeanor by giving permission for the violation. Hot damn! Ahhh, a great day for commie-progressive-fascism! Suck on that, wingnuts! Eat shit!
@18…I never seen post that shows jealousy more than post #18.
YLB doesnt care about fairness or anyting else – he HATES people that are better off than him – its that simple.
I’m pretty well off, and I have worked my ass off to get there – as have many others. In YLB’s twisted world, people who are well off are somehow the laziest of our society.
WTF?
Re 86
I don’t recall making any statements about my income or financial net worth. Nor would I. The statements I have made have been backed by real world experience. Whether you believe that experience to be apocryphal or not really doesn’t matter to me. This is a blog, and I’m not a fool. I’d no more provide personal information to you than I willingly would to the government. Both are potentially dangerous if they had too much personal information. And neither has any business with it.
I haven’t written one solitary word about Goldsteins’ job situation or anything else personal to him. That would be rude, as he pays for the space on the blog. Granted this is likely a business model that requires ‘trolls’ to be vigorously and even obscenely attacked. But manners are manners.
And I do genuinely admire a person who develops a business that makes it possible to work at what he or she loves. I hope Goldstein the best in that regard.
Fair point on your critique of my statement. Consider it withdrawn. Maybe you are an expert at darning socks.
Re 87
Check your assumptions before spouting them. I largely agree with the analysis, if not with the political conclusions drawn. Sales tax is a bad model. A global economy does present challenges to high wage industrialized countries. I just don’t think graduated income tax a better one. And I truly don’t know what could feasibly be done about the pressure a global economy brings to bear on our national one.
The last paragraph isn’t worth responding to. Partisan hate vomited over a keyboard isn’t really all that interesting.
Re 88
Good job Steve! Now are you going to pay the rent for the tradesmen who won’t be working because of your officiousness?
“The last paragraph isn’t worth responding to. Partisan hate vomited over a keyboard isn’t really all that interesting.”
Thank you for the response that wasn’t “worth it”, but made nonetheless.
And kudos are due when due. The paragraph above your gratuitous closing one did show some thought and actual consideration for those who disagree with you, and raised some serious questions.*
Congrats.
*It may well be that history has a much higher probability of robbing you blind than any policy currently being considered by those delusional ‘liberal elites’.
@91: It’s called breaking the law, a fairly straightforward concept. Why do you have a problem with it?
@83 We need a governor with the clarity of vision to see this happening, and the political leadership skills and personal will to do something about it. Which is not our current governor.
Well too bad you were such an enthusiastic supporter when she was running for office. In view of your judgment then, you’re now offering us more advice?
@88
Yay, Steve!
@91 All the stupid sod had to do to get his project built was follow the law.
@74
I love it when wing-nuts tell the rest of us how we think. It shows just how lost they are.
@81
What Sound Transit is doing is following the rule of law. Don’t like it, then change the law. But, ST can’t pick and choose what laws to follow.
89 – Ohhh. so touchy. You have such issues with me right winger…
Seen the dollars that investment banker Michael Dunmire puts into Eyman’s loathsome intiatives. What an investment – like a little sociopathic middle-schooler wanting to blow up shit. I bet he doesn’t break a sweat.
and YOU! You work so hard. Hard at countering my comments here at HA! Such lofty ambitions!
lostinnarcissism: “Fair point on your critique of my statement. Consider it withdrawn. Maybe you are an expert at darning socks.”
And what is wrong with darning socks? making money is a talent, like most others. Some are more adept at it than others. No big deal. However, in many instances the behavior verges on the sociopathic. Making money in and of itself does not necessarily advance the social good. And I’m fairly sure that you would agree that using state power to rob society is, well, not good public policy.
But then again, from what I see of your stuff, I’m not so sure you would agree.
ylb loses again…..