I just got off the phone with King County Council Chair Larry Phillips, and here is the information straight from the horse’s, uh… mouth:
He did NOT receive a notice that his absentee ballot had signature problems.
He does not know if notices were sent to some or all or none of the other 573, but he most definitely did not receive one.
As to how he found his name on the list in the first place, he was very detailed about the circumstances. At a Christmas party last Thursday he was approached by a friend to help out on Sunday to canvass voters whose ballots had not been counted. He showed up at the field office in Fremont (as did fellow Councilmember Dow Constantine), where after first being assigned an area in West Seattle, and then in Carnation, he eventually convinced them to give him an area in his own district. After first familiarizing himself with the maps, he started reading through the names and addresses, and found himself tenth on the list. After finishing his canvassing, he started making phone calls, and well… you know what happened next.
No scandal, no suspicious circumstances… just sheer, dumb luck.
Phillips also emphasized that these are all legal absentee ballots from legal voters that were incorrectly rejected due to a procedural error: election workers should have pulled the paper work when they did not find the signatures on the computer.
So unless you are calling Phillips a liar, enough already of the speculation and conjecture surrounding these 573 ballots. They were rejected by mistake, and discovered by accident… and that is that.
Of course he was sent a notice, he was too busy campaigning for Kerry in Ohio to see it. Shouldnt someone be asking what important votes he missed while grooming a political appointment?
And you don’t think that Republican surrogates campaigned for Bush on the local level?
It was clear from the beginning that neoconservative commentators on this blog, such as Josef and Mr. Cynical, are just plain wrong. They desperately want Rossi to win because he’s ahead. They seem to be taking the comments of ChairmanVance to heart. Too bad “ChairmanVance” hasn’t been able to come up with a shred of evidence proving corruption or fraud. In the U.S., we don’t allow people to get away with wild accusations. You have to prove it. And Vance doesn’t have evidence to prove any of his accusations.\
He can bluster around all he wants. It makes no difference. The county canvassing board shouldn’t have to put up with this garbage.
If you consider Ohio local to Seattle maybe you need to return to Elementary School for a geography lesson. Or are you one of the extremely intelligent teachers, sucking off the people’s tax dollars for an easy government job?
As well, Rossi has already won twice. Those of us who have paid attention to the three seperate vote tabulations realize this. The citizens of Washington realize this. Even you, Sandra Morrison and “Goldy,” realize this. You lost, in a huge way, in virtually all of the federal elections that counted, and are desperetely attempting to keep control over Washington State.
Suck it up, and wait for this outcome. Everyone, or we hope everyone, want’s a complete and accurate count of the LEGAL votes cast in this election.
Angry Voter – you’re a liar. And your attempt at misdirection is lame. We could ask the very same thing of your Republican cronies, but that’s not what’s important here.
Goldy gets the information directly, there’s no evidence to contradict it from any third party, just random suspicion on your part. At this point you’re dangerously close to libel.
Angry… first of all, Phillips said he did not receive a notice; presumably he checked his mail upon his return. So let’s not pussyfoot around… are you calling him a liar? Because that’s what you are implying.
Second of all… Phillips usually votes at the polls; he requested a one-time absentee ballot. Thus the whole reason he voted “absentee” was because he was going to be absent! Election workers made a mistake, and you are saying his vote shouldn’t count because he wasn’t there to fix it?
Liar
Okay, ladies & gents, I’m going to copy from my notes what Phillips said to The Olympian and then you all can draw your own conclusions:
A Chance Discovery
Phillips learned about his rejected vote quite by chance, he said. As an active Democrat and chairman of the King County Council, he was invited Sunday to join other Democrats going door-to-door for Gregoire’s campaign. The idea was to talk to voters whose absentee ballots had been rejected and see if they could get valid signatures to ensure the ballots were counted.
When Phillips got a list of voters for the Queen Anne and Fremont areas of the city, which he had pledged to check out, he scanned it, looking to see if he knew anybody.
“I got down to No. 10 on the list and I said, ‘I know that guy! It’s me!’ ” Phillips recalled.
His surprise and shock wore off and “as the afternoon went on, I was livid. As I rolled it over in my mind, I was certain I had done it correctly” in voting absentee for the first time, he said.
Again, I’d add the URL but that delays the posting…
I find it offensive that this digging was still going on – I mean, what was the legal authorization to do so?
Liar Liar Liar,
Fraud Fraud Fraud!
Thought I might as well say what you imagine we are thinking…
Go ahead, call me immature, if you think it will make me stop fighting.
If you all wanted EVERY vote to count, why were you looking specifically for Democrat voters when you searched for more votes? I have to friends(Republicans) who drove around King County right after election day looking for absentee voters. They found two. One was a Democrat who voted for Gregoire.
What do you think my friends did with his affidavit?
They returned his signed affidavit with the one other they found, and can honestly say they helped get EVERY vote counted. Please come up with a good excuse for your party activists actions. Maybe I’m expecting too much…
Excuse me, “two friends.” Need spell check.
Josef… the legal authority is RCW 29A.60.210:
That is the “safety valve” provision cited by Sam Reed and his attorneys (before the Supreme Court), arguing that it made the Democratic lawsuit unnecessary. If problems are found, even during a recount, the canvassing board has the discretion to correct them.
DBL… okay, you are calling Phillips a liar. Now do what I do when I call Tim Eyman a liar… back it up!
Second, those 573 ballots are all sealed in their absentee envelopes. We have no idea what’s on the ballots inside. So your claim that we are only looking for Democratic voters is ridiculous. Rossi has picked up 278 votes statewide thus far, padding his margin by 79, and you don’t hear a single accusation of fraud or corruption from either side.
This election has already been certified, twice, thus, if you follow the law, deems this “recanvass” illegal, but that’s just what the RCW and Supreme Court says, and that’s open for interpretation if you didn’t win the count.
JCricket-
You actually think that Phillips would tell someone he was lying, that is ciruclar logic, which I recall from PHIL101 is not a valid argument. I am not saying he is lying, I am not saying he isnt. What I am saying is that this should all be looked at very closely and there is no need to rush these ballots through. Be pragmatic about it. You cannot disproove a double negative…
Goldy, hats off to you for providing a forum for discourse, as misguided and uninformed as some of your bloggers are…
Immediately following the election, both parties were given a list of Absentee ballots that had problems with signatures, remember about 1 1/2 months ago? That is what I was referring too.
If you have to bring up Tim Eyman as a comeback to my conjecture, please, try again. While I agree with most of Tim’s ideas, as I’m sure you agree with most of Michael Moore’s ideas, he has become a non-issue in Washington politics, just as Moore has become a non-issue in national politics.
Cheers Angry
Indeed DBL- I raise my imaginary glass of Scotch to those that fight the good fight, on the right and on the left.
Likewise, a tall Guinness perhaps.
Angry – you’re a liar. Your first post says quite clearly “of course he was sent a notice”. Unless you’re now going to claim that someone else wrote your first post, you’re calling him a liar. And the burden of proof is on you.
And yes, people do occasionally admit that their former statements were lies when they are confronted with evidence showing it.
So when are you going to fess up and admit that you were not equivocating (“I am not saying he is lying, I am not saying he isnt.”). You called Phillips a liar with no evidence and good evidence to the contrary.
And now you’re lying about what you wrote.
Liar.
Now who is bordering on libel? jackass.
DBL – you’re wrong. The Supreme Court merely refused to issue a writ of mandamus compelling every county to recanvass every rejected vote. They accepted Sam Reed’s argument that the counties were already using their legal discretion to reconsider ballots as appropriate.
This recount is legal, and the results of it are legal.
And Angry – you’re also wrong on your recollection from Philosophy 101. A double negative can actually be proven (because a double negative is actually a positive). The correct statement is “you can’t prove a negative” which actually applies to your assertions. I can’t prove that Phillips is lying, but I don’t have to. You are the one who has to prove your accusation.
I see I have stirred up a bit of a hornets nest.
First, thank you Goldy for taking the time to make that phone call to Mr. Phillips. I am not ready to call him a liar…but I am not Mr. Cynical for no reason. Frankly, Mr. Phillips explanation seems quite extraordinary…anything is possible I suppose…but this is quite extraordinary (as Goldy put it “dumb luck!!). And because this is so extraordinary, I believe there ought to be further public questoning & scrutiny because this could very well decide the election. Mr. Phillips is a powerful, high-profile person. He should be willing to allow an independent probe into his assertions. In the meantime, there is no reason why these ballots must be counted TODAY. As the dissenting member of the King County Canvassing Board reasoned….let’s take our time on these. Otherwise, once counted they are comingled with other ballots and you can no longer identify each one. DO NOT OPEN ANY OF THESE SECRECY ENVELOPES AND DO NOT THROW AWAY THE SIGNED ENVELOPES!!!!!!!!!! KEEP THESE TOTALLY SEPERATED AND UNCOUNTED UNTIL THEY ARE SCRUTINIZED TO EVERYONE’S SATISFACTION AND THEN COUNT THEM, IF APPROVED, ON THE LAST DAY.
If Dean Logan attempts to rush this in any way, it is highly suspicious. What could possibly be Logan’s hurry if he truly wants to make sure we get it right!!!!!!
You’re all LIARS and I’m not going to let you play in my sandbox anymore… you POOPYHEADS!!!
Runoff election.
The arguments from Republicans are hypocritical. Of course, if the shoe were on the other foot and the 500 or so votes that King County erroneously disqualified were counted from the get go and Gregoire won by 42, then they’d be trying all the tricks that the Dems are trying now. It’s completely partisan posturing, trying to get your side in. Gregiore is no better.
The margin of error in this is too close for any recount process to accurately tell who won. The voting system in place is simply not able to tell who won down to a margin of a few hundred votes on either side. It’s just not designed to do it, statistically speaking. So rather than have this become a fight about who’s spin/lawyers is better, let’s send the thing back to the people. Let’s call it a tie and have a runoff election. If both sides are honest about leting votes count, let’s do this again with the only choice being the top two vote getters. The Libertarians and Socialists and whatnot will have to choose one of the two and sit it out. Maybe that will give us a margin that won’t require all of this posturing. And if it doesn’t, then we need to get a voting system in place that isn’t suseptible to this sort of manipulation. It would be a mistake to let some court decide who are governer is. Shouldn’t have happend in 2000 and we shouldn’t let it happen now. And Republicans, if they have any respect for the process, should agree.
And Phillips too.
The other unsettling issue is how in the hell Mr. Phillips voter registration with signature is on file with the Secretary of State and not on the King County system??????
This makes absolutely no sense. I have checked with other Auditors & Election Officials. THE SECRETARY OF STATE GETS THESE REGISTRATIONS FROM EACH COUNTY!!! THE COUNTY SCANS THEM IN THEIR SYSTEM AND THEN TRANSMITS THEM TO THE SECRETARY OF STATE!!!!! I SEE NO PLAUSIBLE WAY IF THAT IS THE PROCEDURE HOW THIS COULD HAVE HAPPENED!!!!!!
Now watch, we’ll hear another Dean Logan admission that his office made some other kind of “computer” mistake followed by his “count every vote mantra”!!!!!
Will EVERYONE agree that if there is one more “mistake” like a computer mistake or God only know’s what….that it is time for Logan to step aside and bring in a bi-partisan group of outside County Auditors to take control of this!!! Remember, the canvassing board has tremendous authority. Isn’t it time for Logan to be off that canvassing board!!!!!!!! You bet it is. Logan is delegating & literally overseeing HIMSELF!!! That’s bullshit!!!!
Last but not least…carefully read the RCW’s and WAC’s re: the canvassing process and regarding errors & discrepancies. It is not so clear-cut as some would like to think.
You see, the Canvassing Board delegated authority to these low level staffers. They have performed a function and rejected these ballots…..but they did so with full authority.
I have no idea how this will come out….but it is not a slamdunk either way.
Let’s look more closely at Mr. Phillips. I am not calling him a liar but because of his high profile position and extraordinary “dumb luck” we cannot justify proceeding until his story is openly questioned and checks out. Phillips put himself in this position. He owes it to the entire State to stand up to serious questioning. If he won’t, then I will call him a liar!!!!
Not dumb luck. The fates.
KING 5 poll showe 63 percent want the ballots counted….36 or so opposed. R spin is not wotking….
Goldy- have confirmed with Secretary of State’s office, at very high level- NOTHING that Cynical has stated is true. NOTHING!
I used top respect him. Now I KNOW he is full of crap!!!!
Just another comment- because of the high number of votes in King, and the low number of new gains by Rossi in other counties, Gregoire does not need the extra votes in all probibility.
That answer coming later. There may be Public Health issues- exploded R’s littering the body politic. They are taking this real hard. The promise of all the patronage so close, those jobs, state contracts, must be a bigger deal than I imagined.
How come Vance etal are not screaming about the 28 of the 35 counties that have finished their hand count who made corrections? Kitsap Co. found 154 new votes … how come Vance isn’t screaming at them? It couldn’t possibly be because those are pro-Rossi counties, could it?
Comment by Sandra Morrison— 12/16/04 @ 10:39 am
You are ignorant. I am no neocon. But why would Chris Vance lie when he could be sued for libel?
Comment by Goldy— 12/16/04 @ 11:18 am
Okay, I see: Fishing expedition. . .
Josef- Chris Vance… talk to folks who knew him in the Legislature and on the Council regarding his veracity… well known for hyperbole… not dishonest, just prone to exageration…
Josef… sued for libel where? …Canada? Not in this country.
Dean Logan has performed remarkably well in this “test to destruction” of our voting system- 99.999% accurate, and I doubt anyone could do better, especially with the mess he had to clean up (and is still cleaning up). Our friends, members of the BIAW, helped bankroll the campaign of one Ron Sims, who aided and abetted the creation of the mess that Logan is cleaning up.
Now, while everyone goes apoplectic over 573 ballots, only 245 of which seem to have signatures among the paper records, Whitman has aded 3 votes for Gregoire, and Pierce converted 460 write-ins, under-votes, and over-votes into good votes- with a margin of 17 to Gregoire. The King County Canvassing Board is also reviewing ballots for voter intent- a reported 245 last night, more on Tuesday.
Misdirection? Sucker play? The real game is elsewhere…
My thoughts are for someone other than Logan be appointed (NOW) to oversee all ballots in question. I’m actually not questioning Logan’s ethics, but non-the-less this is another major screw up on his watch, and the credibility to govern of who ever wins is at stake. I feel all (573 plus 22) ballots that are legal should be counted. Vet them first but if they qualify count them. Voting is a precious right and these people should not be disenfranchised over King Co. dropping ballots behind the machines or failing to check signatures. When this mess is finished, if ever, hopefully the legislature will step up to the plate and set some state standards. King needs to find a highly competent individual and then give that person carte blanche authority to do whatever necessary.
Jim King–
“Nothing I have stated is true”–
OK Jim–since you are so knowledgeable:
1) Is Larry Phillips signature card on file with Sec of State?
There is no such thing as libel in political contests. Courts have not allowed claims – something to the fact that no one expects the truth.
Vance will go to DC soon. His dis-information skills are highly qualifying in the Dept of Defense.
Jim King–
2) If Larry Phillips signature is scanned into their system…where did it come from???? Are you saying it didn’t come from King County??? Now remember, you just said NOTHING I said was true!!
3) All I’m asking is that Mr. Phillips subject himself to questioning about his “dumb luck”. What’s wrong with that?
4) Look at the RCW’s and WAC yourself. What’s untrue about that???
Jim–you said NOTHING I said is true. If that’s the case, please go thru my comments point by point and refute them. PLEASE!
Cynical- I will not break the law to find out, and I do not care to take the time to pursue a public information request…
You claim you saw it online. You asked us to compare the “ll”s.
You are full of crap.
Cynical- you throw out so much crap, then challenge us to sort through it. Ain’t playing that game. You might, since you are so out to prove crimes in this election, so cough up the name of your source at SOS. His bosses might be interested in his extracurricular activities…
Jim
Where the 245 ballots on tv last night part of the 573?
You asked me yesterday to get to the truth, and Mr. Phillips was kind enough to return my phone call, and I asked him exactly the questions you were asking: did he receive notice, and what were the circumstances behind him finding his name on the list. I asked him these questions, and he answered in great detail.
I’m just some guy with a blog, and yet he was willing to answer all my questions…. yet you continue to imply that he is not being forthright.
Apparently not.
King–
I did not say I saw it on-line!!!!!!!!
I’ll ask this again—
How did Larry Phillips signature get scanned on the Secretary of State voter registration list and it was not on King County’s????
Jim King—How would it get scanned on to the State list Jim?????
I’m disappointed you would not be seriously interested in this??
You can accuse me of whatever…but it doesn’t change the facts.
If you have a source @ SOS you can easily do a public request….so why won’t you??? It isn’t that difficult.
If Larry Phillips signature is scanned at the Sec of State…why isn’t it at King County????????? As I said before, I’m asking the question and waiting for a plausible answer….I’m not making any allegation.
You seem to be very sensitive about this Jim King…why?
Most of the counties that have different vote tallies didn’t find them resting in piles under rocks: that’s the big difference. If a handcount is more accurate, and that’s a big if, then the differences in numbers should be satisfactory to all. But “finding” votes whereever ballots have carelessly (or not so) carelessly been deposited is not the same as correcting an previously conducted count.
Bob,
Why don’t you attempt to get a job in D.C.? Oh, wait, that’s right. YOU LOST! Democrats are the one’s who are having to go through psychological examinations and group therapy due to what happened on November 2, not Republicans. We figure, well, if we fairly won one more, we might as well fight for it. You think, well, we lost everything else, we have to fight for something. I’m sure you are searching to find illegal activities on our side, as we are searching for it on yours. Perhaps nothing will be found by either, but at least we will know for sure if this was a fair election, right?
Goldy–
I do appreciate you taking the time to talk to Mr. Phillips. I understand he didn’t have to talk to you or anyone else. I just think that “dumb luck” in a Governor’s race currently seperated by 118 votes, when the likely deciding votes are the result of actions by the Chair of the King County Council who is a Democrat when combined with all the King County controversy past & present……well it deserves more scrutiny than just Goldy….don’t you think??
And I do want to know how Mr. Phillips scanned signature could be at the Secretary of State and not at King County when procedures would lead us to believe the County’s forward their scanned signatures to the State.
Mr. King acts outraged by these simple questions and concerns. Why?? Contract lobbyists are known for playing all sides of the fence especially to endear themselves to people in power like Mr. Phillips. A high-roller like Mr. King could get a lot of mileage out of kicking a little SOB Blogger like me!!! Not all contract lobbyists are that way. But Mr. King’s reaction to simple questions leads me to believe……well, let’s just wait for Mr. King to answer my questions and address my concerns.
Cynical-
From “Who is stealing what from whom?”- my post #67, referring to your posts on the same thread. Anyone reading those see’s you claiming to have seen information on the SOS website. Now, we all know you’re full of crap, but there are your own words in evidence”
Cynical- you claimed(in posts #21 “On the Sec of State website, it appears he has 2 signature cards on file…one active and a more current one cancelled. Take a look at those 2 signatures. They appear to be quite different. His L’s are totally different.” and #27-“Look at his 2 signature cards?”)- that you had seen Larry Phillips signatures online on the Secretary of State’s website- now you claim (post #60- “Oh and I never said I had access to voter reg on Sec of State website…did I!!!!”) that you didn’t claim that.
Cynical- look at your own words- you are throwing nothing but bullshit.
So you admit you lied in the first two posts- you didn’t see Larry Phillips registration card or cards- you don’t know what you were claiming- you have NO credibility.
If Mr. King is a high roller, why the heck would he waist his time on blogs?
And Mr Cynical- I have no relationship with Mr. Phillips, unlike you BIAW types, I do not go around supporting liberal Democrats at the local level while complaining about them at the state level. Make all the snide remarks you want, I just need to consider the woefully ignorant and lying source, and I sleep well at night.
DBL- I come here because I appreciate the effort Goldy is making to get accurate information out, and I get bored analyzing budgets and take a break to pull the wings off of blogflys like Cynical- it is so easy… (explanation for today)…
No disrespect meant to any actual high rollers was meant by my previous post.
I’ve known Jim for about 25 years as a former staffer and lobbyist and he has the highest of ethical standards.
Good to know.
Thanks.
Jim King—
Now take a couple of deep breath’s and focus—
Larry Phillips signature is scanned on the State voter system.
Dean Logan stated these 573 were “voter’s signature’s not previously scanned” into the County’s system.
I ask you again, please explain how Phillips signature could be on the State system and not in the King County system? I am asking a very simple question. You seem to be fixated on discrediting me rather than answer a simple question. If there is a simple answer, I’m all ears. But please..knock off the rhetoric and focus on the question.
How can the State have a scanned signature and the COunty claim not to have it????? Where did the State get it???
C’mon Jim—-answer the question?
Goldy–
This question about Phillips signature and others seems very relevant…doesn’t it? I mean, can you explain how it is scanned on the State system and not the King County system?
And because Dean Logan said these 573 were voter’s signatures not previously scanned into King County…can you see the confusion here??
Mr. King is taking a simple question and huffing & puffing with all his might rather than answering it. Not cool!
Perhaps King County is keeping the signatures under furniture, voting machines or whatever and the SOS office is just more efficient.
So it’s THAT Robin… Howdy, dear!
Jim
I am still confused re ballots. If the 245 they were all glaring at on the tube last night are not part of the 573, and they counted under votes in the machine count. What were these? Also are you guys saying that they only have signatures on 245 of the 573? And last night’s batch just happened to be 245?
I’m not so sure that explains it Robin. You see it is SCANNED into the Sec of State system meaning that signature came from somewhere…I have been told by other Auditors and Election staffers that they…the COunties…forward the scanned data to the State. This is where the confusion lies. Your friend< Mr. King, appears to want to laugh this off. I'm just searching for the truth on how this could happen. Mr. King twisted my legitimate question into an allegation. It's not. Still waiting for your explanation Mr. King???
C’mon Jim King—
How did Phillips signature get into the State system and Logan said these were not in King County’s???
You admitted having an SOS contact…are you saying he won’t confirm or deny to you that Phillips signature is on file???
I think you know it is.
Robin- it is coincidence that both sets numbered 245- the “undervotes” we saw being checked and counted last night (did you see the one that had all those calculations written all over it? Must have been the chair of “Rocket Scientists for Rossi” :) ), and then the other set- that part of the 573 for which King County had found voter cards among the paper files. Just coincidence that the same number…
Cynical… I don’t know that Phillips signature is scanned on the State system. Unlike you, I’ve never claimed to have seen it. And as Jim has pointed out, you’ve clearly implied that you have. I quote:
You wrote that Cynical… “His L’s are totally different.” Thus I must conclude one of three things, either A) you did indeed see these signature cards, in which case somebody in the SOS office needs to lose his job, B) you didn’t actually see it yourself, but again somebody in the SOS office divulged information he shouldn’t have, or C) you were totally blowing smoke out your ass when you wrote that.
Which is it? Did you illegally gain access to the records, did somebody unethically divulge information, or did you make the whole thing up?
Larry Phillips directly answered my questions. Now it’s your turn.
Robin, yes… the two batches of 245 are coincidental.
As to where these additional 245 came from, forget about the previous count… these are ballots that counting teams couldn’t divine or couldn’t agree on, and so they are passed to the canvassing board. And one would expect that additional “under votes” will be converted to votes in the hand recount. This is exactly what happened in Pierce County, where the went from 6979 under votes after the first count, to 6486 after the machine recount, to 6029 after the hand count. (There are still approximately 75 more ballots left before the canvassing board.)
Goldy
Thanks
NEWS BREAK… Snohomish surprise: 44 vote net gain for Gregoire!
Goldy–
1) I just looked behind me and there is no smoke coming out of my ass!
2) What difference does it make where the information came from???
Isn’t it important to hold people in power and entrusted to be public servants to the highest standard??
So back to the more important issue—
Wow Cynical – nice use of the logical fallacy known as “Complex Question”. This is where two otherwise unrelated points are conjoined and treated as a single proposition. Believing in the second part does not mean you have to believe in your first part.
Yes, it’s important to hold people in power to the highest standard.
No, that has nothing to do with believing Phillips story.
It’s increasingly evident, by your unwillingness to cite sources and your refusal to explain your own contradictions/mis-statements, that your accusations about aren’t worth investigating.
Dean Logan and Larry Phillips have power…not you & I.
Apparently Jim King has friends in high places…he could easily find out what is going on here.
Let’s stay focused guy’s. I’m just trying to help make sure that whatever the outcome, as many of the difficult questions as possible are answered. I have asked a legitimate question. Goldy, I’m surprised you wouldn’t want this one answered.
THE POINT IS DEAN LOGAN SAID THESE SIGNATURES WERE NOT IN THE KING COUNTY SYSTEM….FINE. BUT IF THAT IS THE CASE, HOW COME IT’S IN THE STATE SYSTEM????
If I’m all wrong about this, I’ll be the first to admit it. I admitted I was wrong about how many over- and under-votes would be changed on this manual recount!!!! I also admitted that Josef was right in not trusting Dean Logan after I naively defended him as an honest man and tried to give him every benefit of the doubt.
If I’m wrong…I’ll admit it.
But let’s get to the answer here Goldy!
Absolutely. But I’m holding you accountable right now for claims you made on my web site. You made a very specific, detailed, factual claim in an effort to discredit Mr. Phillips and the King County Elections department.
Did you or did not view Larry Phillips signature cards on the SOS computer and compare the L’s? Yes or no?
You’re the only one saying it’s in the state system. Goldy and Jim and I have been asking you, on several threads, to offer proof that it’s in the state system. Given that none of us have access to that system, and the average person doesn’t, we find your assertion doubtful.
So that’s why we’re not answering you. You’re pre-supposing we agree with your premise (that Phillips’ signature is in the state system), when that’s still (at least) an open question.
Comment by Goldy— 12/16/04 @ 1:11 pm
He published a press release – that’s libel me thinks…
To those who think I’m a neocon: I think Chris Vance is a saint… and I think Goldy is the devil. Oh, that’s right – I want Goldy to run for Governor! Go F yourselves!
Josef
Kind of hard for me to want a man to run for Governor when you think I think he’s the devil.
Go Christine. All you silly medieval R’s, no jobs from Rossi.
Wait unitil another court blows off the R’s.- the Dems tied a long shot, lost. BUT the R;s lost the first two. THREE STRIKES YOU ARE OUT, ask Johnie Boy Carlson.
Goldy–
I did not try to discredit anyone…I am asking a simple question.
Of course I cannot personally access the SOS voter registration database. And I never said I did. You folks seem mighty skitterish about all this. Rather then spend all your energy hammering on me, why not simply put it to rest by asking??????? It ain’t that hard. Or are you afraid you won’t like the answer???
I can just hear it now….yet another King County Elections Dept screw-up!!!
Let’s go at it this way….will you folks admit that IF Phillips signature is on the SOS voter registration system that it would be mighty, mighty suspicious that it wasn’t on King County’s???
And…just for the sake of discussion, don’t you think that scanned signatures on the SOS system had to come from somewhere????
And wouldn’t it be logical that they came from King County???
C’mon Goldy…get to the bottom of this. I’ve already told you that if the signature isn’t on the SOS system, I’ll admit I was wrong. But I expect if it is, that you will demand more information on how this could be!! Is it a deal???
Oh and Goldy—for the umpteenth time–
All I’m looking for is the truth and a logical explanation.
If it ain’t on the SOS voter registration system, I’ll apologize.
But if it is….HOW DID IT GET THERE???
Goldy, you have said many times you are not a Democratic Party hack like cricket. And I’ve already told you, I voted for 7 Democrats in the last election.
THIS IS ABOUT THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH!!!
Simple question…let’s have the answer.
THIS IS ABOUT THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH. I already told you I voted for 7 Democrats in this election.
Goldy, you have repeatedly represented yourself to be a man seeking the truth (even though you admitted voting straight Democrat). You aren’t a partisan hack like Bob for Boeing or jcricket.
Look, there are only a few people like Josef, Jim King etc. that sincerely want the truth (yeah Jim…I’m chalking your last several posts as “senior moments”)!
So focus Goldy.
Is Dean Logan correct? How do scanned signatures get to the SOS if not transmitted by the COUNTY???????
Cynical- No senior moments- you’ve made claims- you’ve had your own words thrown back at you- your bluff has been called, and you’ve been exposed for being nothing but full of crap.
Quite frankly, since you seem to fail to notice, quite a chorus here- people like Josef and I who are desperately pulling for Dino, people like Goldy and jcricket and Bob from Boeing who are pulling for Christine, all are quite focused. We all agree that until you come clean, you ain’t worth shit.
Is Phillips signature scanned on SOS voter registration site? YES or NO??? And if it’s there, how did it get there? Real simple Jimbo. You can hurl all you want at me but these questions need to be answered….that’s all. I’ve not made allegations…I’ve asked hard questions. Your idea of being focused Jimbo is apparently to avoid asking these hard questions and instead try to take the “intellectual high-road”. Well, go ahead and say I’m full of crap all you want. I can’t wait for your spin once this comes to light.
Crucify the questioner???? Why not search for the truth???
And what does come clean mean???? Jimbo, you have quoted so many unnamed “friends in high places” I’ve lost count. You avoid naming names like your friend at SOS. So don’t throw rocks my friend when you live in a glass house. Seek the truth….especially when it comes to holding folks in power accountable.
Just a suggestion Jim.
Jim do you have any jumpy clients? Most contract lobbyist would be hesitant to spout off online or anywhere else… You dont seem to take the get along at all cost approach.
Goldy, my hats off to you for putting up with people (?) like angry voter and DBL. Over at unsoundpolitics Czar Stefan just blocks people out of his blog when he does not like what they say. Keep up the good work.
DBL – do you start the heavy drinking in the early afternoon or are you just too partisan that you can’t deal with facts.
TAKE THIS- said ” had two friends who helped people with their absentees”—– Honey, those list of absentee voters who needed help were only released when the DEMOCRATS sued to get the lists in King County. Good judge Lau said yes. Then all parties had only four or five days to go to work….sweetheart, if the DEMOCRATS, OPPOSED BY REPUBLICANS, had not sued, more people would have been out in the cold in King.
Yes, Dems, just want all votes counted, every voter annointed by his/her inherent franchise in democratic process via the sacred right to vote.
If my father was still alive I would get this in Russian for you.
Doubling my bets again, in 5 figures now, Gregoire by less than 99.
Bob- the good judge released the lists of provisional voters. The lists of absentees were already out there. Sorry- you messed up on that one… At least you make honest errors…
Man, put a fork in this thread on Phi”Ll”ips…how about something else. I heard R’s filed suit in Pierce County. Can any legal wonks shed light on why that venue chosen?
Rudy, I’m in the midst of writing a blog entry on the GOP suit, though I’m not going to spend to much time on the legal issues. Suffice it to say that general consensus is the R’s don’t have a good case.
Grazie – ‘figured they’d be needing all the help they can get on it, & wondered if there’s any history or court politics in Pierce that would make them want to file there
Rudy- The assumption is that a King County judge has a conflict of interest, so you go to a neighboring county… That’s the surface reason…
Pierce County has a long standing place of infamy as the home of political corruption in Washington state. The police chief stuff of recent vintage surprised nobody with any historical knowledge of Pierce county.
Bet they have a R’ judge spotted or …….. good they have no case, as it can be quickly appealed.
Of course, why they chose Pierce, over Kittitas (as an example) is beyond me… Pierce is full of Democrat judges, maybe not as liberal as the King County bench, but no more likely to be helpful to the state GOP…
Bob from Boeing- no more corruption in the history of Pierce than there has been in the history of Seattle and King County- both went to charter governments in response to corruption and pay-offs…
And all of the corruption in the past thirty years was Democrat corruption- including Tacoma and Brame, but going back to the Pierce County sheriff and prosecutor in the ’70’s…
Goldy, Thanks for doing the PI’s job for them and clearing this up. I have a hard time believing Mr. Phillips but oh well.
If the 573 ballots were not continuously secure until re-discovered, Vance may have a winning reason in court for them not to be counted. Considering the King County screwups that have popped up so far, it would not surprise me if the County had been storing these ballots outside on the curb. With a box of blank ballots nearby. And an assortment of black pens. Of course, many will claim that Repubs have to prove that these ballots were not secure. Voters should expect the County to use procedures that prove they were secure.
Zip… these are absentee ballots, still secured inside their envelopes, so there is no way to tamper with them. They have been secured with all the other rejected absentee ballots. It’s not that they were newly found, it’s that it was only recently discovered that they were erroneously rejected.
Right, my point is the County should be obliged to prove that they were secure. Because of their demonstrably terrible track record with ballot security.