Congressional Quarterly just upgraded its rating of the race for Washington’s 5th Congressional District!
Republicans have hailed Cathy McMorris of Washington’s 5th District as a rising star since she won an open House seat in 2004 by an unexpectedly wide margin.
This image
Need some help the 4th CD. 4th CD area democrats are sitting on their hands. They’re acting like losers before the contest is over between Hastings and Wright.
It’s worth pointing out that Goldmark and McMorris were statistically tied, 37-39, in a recently conducted poll.
Not a penny. You libs are going down in NOV!!!!
If we win a seat in Eastern Washington, I’ll start buying Washington apples again.
Unfortunately, investing in GOP politicians is extremely profitable for Republican donors, and they’ll spend whatever is needed to keep Cathy CheapLabor in Congress. Between 2000 and 2004, GOP contributors gave the Republican Party $4 billion, and got $400 billion of tax breaks as repayment. Without doubt, they will spend some of that to “invest” in Cheap Labor and Stealing Social Security, where the payout is in trillions. Now that Cathy CheapLabor is a threatened species, they’ll pour millions of the money they stole from us into her race to keep that rubberstamp safe for CheapLabor.
Yep. I sent Peter Goldmark a hunnert bucks. I’ve never done anything like that before. He’s going to win this one.
and mccranium has an interview posted with Goldmark.
Carl Grossman
Liberal, Democrat and married to a shiksa. […………………………………………………………………..Mrs. Grossmanstein, “Tookie” love tonight????? Call me!!!]
Goldmark is great. It’s nice to see him getting the national attention, but we’re still waiting for the Spokesman to get off its butt and start reporting on this race.
A reminder of where you libs come from:
Exclusive.
Was the Jew killer a conservative or liberal. In the Seattle Times we have the following quote:
Haq’s friend said he couldn’t believe the timid, “geeky” man he knew from the tutoring center was capable of such violence.
“Are you sure we’re talking about the same person?” he said Sunday………….
He said Haq was not a devout Muslim and often complained that the Tri-Cities were too politically conservative.
“I’m beginning to think I was his only friend in the Tri-Cities. I don’t recall him hanging out with anybody else.”
Now for the other side we turn to Darryl’s story on HA July 30, 2006:
Psssssssssstttttttt…….
Ah it looks like the story was all a bunch of hot air. Well there you have it. Enjoy all you Nazi Libs.
Why did Cantwell (D-Mexico) vote against building a fence on the Mexican border? Corporate Dem cheap-labor sellouts like Cantwell ( D-Mexico) think third-world wages are great for business, and think that a poor, cheap-labor third-world America will vote Democrat, as shown below:
George Bush% John Kerry%
Male 55 44
Female 48 51
White male 62 37
White female 55 44
Non-white male 30 67
Non-white female 24 75
White 58 41
African-American 11 88
Latino 44 53
Asian 44 56
Earning less than $15,000 36 63
$15k to $30k 42 57
$30k to $50k 49 50
Source:http://www.historylearningsite.....4_elec.htm
lorax- no, there was NOT a statistical tie. After a lot of pushing the right buttons with the people being “polled”, the numbers were coaxed up for Goldmark. At the start, only 18% of the respondants were even willing to answer a favorable/unfavorable question because they knew so little about him.
That is not “polling”- that is “testing the message to see what works”…
Rufus,
Would you care to put on this jacket for me?
This one’s for the wingers:
SAN FRANCISCO, Aug 25 (OneWorld) – A chief prosecutor of Nazi war crimes at Nuremberg has said George W. Bush should be tried for war crimes along with Saddam Hussein. Benjamin Ferencz, who secured convictions for 22 Nazi officers for their work in orchestrating the death squads that killed more than 1 million people, told OneWorld both Bush and Saddam should be tried for starting “aggressive” wars–Saddam for his 1990 attack on Kuwait and Bush for his 2003 invasion of Iraq.
“Every war will lead to attacks on civilians,” he said. “Crimes against humanity, destruction beyond the needs of military necessity, rape of civilians, plunder–that always happens in wartime. So my answer personally, after working for 60 years on this problem and [as someone] who hates to see all these young people get killed no matter what their nationality, is that you’ve got to stop using warfare as a means of settling your disputes.”
14
Who is going to prosecute Seattle liberals? How many more Jews have to die?
Ben Ferencz has made a career out of implying he was chief prosecutor at THE Nuremberg war crime trials. Actually, Ferencz was allowed to prosecute the low-level criminals after all of the big trials were done.
And he’ll go on and on about how war is never the answer- a strange position coming from one who supposedly has great knowledge of just what the Nazi’s did. And it took WAR to stop them.
Ferencz’s position is that wars of aggression are never the answer. The Allies did not fight a war of aggression in World War II. If you’ll actually look at his comments, they indicate that he thinks that Saddam Hussein and Bush both deserve to be tried for wars of aggression–Saddam for the 1991 war and Bush for the 2003 war. It was the Nazi doctrine of preemptive war that the civilized world repudiated at Nuremberg.
Ferencz was allowed to prosecute the low-level criminals
Hmmm. Twenty-two Nazis whose actions resulted in a million dead – small potatoes for sure.
“Nazi doctrine of preemtive war?”
Which country was planning an attack on Nazi Germany that the Nazi’s felt the need to preemtively stike first?
You are out of your fucking mind!! PLEASE give to candidates who actually have a chance — like all three democratic challengers in CT to name just one example. Your $100 could not be more poorly spent. It does not matter WHERE we overturn the GOP majority, just THAT we overturn it. Pissing away $$ to Eatern Washington is idiotic. Even Bruner’s pathetic “pro-veteran campaign” is a better bet than this dog.
9
That fishwrapper is owned by a rightwing family. They’ll never report the race. They want to pretend Peter Goldmark doesn’t exist.
10
“Was the Jew killer a conservative or liberal.”
Haq is a fundie wingnut.
16, 17
You can always trust a wingnut to distort what someone said when quoting — that is, if they quote. Usually they just lift without attribution.
19
Russia
Union-backed Wal-Mart critics defended their drive to change the world’s largest retailer in a letter Monday to Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee after he called them a “traveling circus” and refused to sign a communique criticizing the Bentonville company. Wal-Mart Watch, a Washington D.C.-based group formed to pressure Wal-Mart Stores Inc. on issues including employee pay and benefits, urged Huckabee to reconsider his support for Wal-Mart and suggested further talks.
In other news the heavily Democrat controlled unionized American auto industry continues to lose truck-loads of money as union pensions, demands, and shennanigans eat away profits.
Meanwhile heavily Democrat controlled unionized New Jersey leads the nation in several catagories of regressive taxation, and has the highest rate of property taxes in the country.
Turns out the killer in the Ramsey case was indeed a teacher – a teacher at a Christian school. Nuff said! -Commentby LeftTurn— 8/16/06@ 6:11 pm
I wonder, little leftturd, how does it feel to be so consistantly WRONG about everything all the time?
Bravell Johnson — the school superintendent in Marion County, Alabama — confirmed Karr’s employment as an elementary school teacher in August and September 1996 and that parents’ complaints led to Karr’s dismissal.
This guy is another lefty child molestor. Your public schools at work.
It figures.
The left has so many Jew killers and child rapists in their midst they have to lie.
Having just returned from a week over near Spokane, I have to say I was surprised at how good of a campaign Goldmark is running. Lots of signs, and he is all over the air waves. I can only speak for the greater Spokane area, but judging from that, I would say that Goldmark has a real chance. His comercials were good, he is running the right kind of campaign for Eastern Washington, and he is right now beating McMoris to the punch right now.
As this starts to look more and more like a sea change year, Goldmark is a real player. Given that half of the Republicans I know are wondering what the hell went wrong with their party right now, I would say that it is even money the Goldmark takes the race come November.
What was really suprising to me was the lack of Mike?(tm) exposure. Perhaps he is taking the Eastside for granted, but his signs were fairly few and far between, and his on air campaign was small. I didn’t listen to much radio while I was back there, so who knows, but I would have expected more at this point. I have a feeling though that after last week, the campaign is just on cruise control, hoping to pull in more than Carlson numbers in the general.
Ok, wingnuts. I’ve told you to get lives and get off your butts, get a job, especiallly you, Doc, you friggin’ hodad. I’m now convinced that you all have nothing better to do than sit around and post at sites where you can post your, yes, fascist posturings. And lets face it. You are fascists. You’d be be real happy goose-stepping with the Wehrmacht. Truly. Had you guys grew up in the Third Reich, you’d have been very happy. But that’s ok. There’s a place for you. I don’t think it’s here. But there is a place for you.
In Dante’s seventh ring of Hell.
Go and read Ferencz’s commentary over the past decades- and he didn’t prosecute twenty-two Nazi’s responsible for a million deaths. That is more of his hype. He prosecuted 22 Nazi’s that were involved in a program- the totality of the program resulting in a million deaths. There were 3,000 Nazi’s in that program- he got 22. His words:
“I had 22 defendants. There were 3000 men engaged in this operation. The reason that there were only 22 was the very logical, if stupid reason, that I only had 22 seats in the dock. That’s the truth.”
Prior to being returned to service to assist in the later Nuremberg trials, he had served with patton;s Third Army, where he also participated in drumhead war crimes “trials” that would, by his own positions today, qualify HIM as a war criminal. In his own words
“They were military commissions. Some Army officers would hear the cases. They would bring in the people whom I had indicated as the perpetrators of the crime, and the witnesses, and have a quick trial. It didn’t last more than a day or two usually. And sentence them to something, death or a few years in prison. Some of them were actually executed. Some of them were not. The less said about those trials, the better.”
Yeah, the less said the better. Hypocrite.
Hey Pellet: If Haq was a Christian, why would he say he was a Muslim? He’s as much of a Christian as Left Turdball has a brain. Since we all know Left Turdball possesses no brain cells, NUFF SAID!
That felt GOOD!
The Nazis claimed that they were threatened by the Soviet Union and used this as justification for Operation Barbarossa (the invasion of the Soviet Union). Other examples of preemptive strikes in World War II are the Soviet invasion of Finland (claiming that Finland was threatening Leningrad) and the Japanese strike at Pearl Harbor. All Allied military actions in World War II were defensive in nature.
“All Allied military actions in World War II were defensive in nature.”
Yeah- check Allied violations of Norweigian neutrality prior to the German invasion, including the mining of Norweigian harbors, and Allied plans for their own invasion across Norweigian and Swedish territory to Finland, stopped only by the Finnish surrender to the Soviet Union.
That is just for starters…
Then there was the British invasion of Iceland, and the American invasion of Greenland- followed by the Americans replacing the British as the occupiers of Iceland- all months before Pearl Harbor. Then the Australian and Dutch invasion of Timor, despite Portuegese neutrality.
No need to change the subject. The Rs aren’t as certain that McMorris is safe as they were earlier this month.
They’re going down, don’t let them up.
5.
So, make them spend the max, wherever possible.
11
Those vote figures reflect what everyone else knows, but wingnuts deny: Voting patterns are based on economics, mroe than race or gender, and GOP policies favor the rich and are generally antiworker, while Democrats back the little guy/gal who is struggling to make ends meet.
A favorite (and bogus) rhetorical tactic of wingnut bloggers is to pretend Democrats lack a coherent platform or message. For those ignorant fucks, the Democrats’ answer is simply this:
Opportunity.
25
Yes, labor activists are working to unionize Wal-Mart, one of the most anti-union employers around. Wal-Mart has succeeded in generating more community opposition than any other predatory business in America. Why? For several reasons:
1) Its notoriety as a low-paying employer
2) Its notoriety as a major importer of Chinese goods, which sends American jobs and dollars to a communist adversary
3) Its notoriety as a corporate freeloader that dumps its employees’ health care on taxpayer-funded Medicaid programs
4) Its notoriety as a “category killer” that drives family-owned retailers out of business and lays waste to Main Streets
5) Its notoriety for imposing its conservative political beliefs on customers by refusing to sell certain books, pharmaceuticals, and other items
6) Its notoriety as a union-busting employer that aggressively discourages labor organizing and frequently fires employees who are even suspected of involvement in organizing efforts
But hey, there’s a silver lining — Wal-Mart is popular with the RV set because they let RVers park overnight in their store parking lots for free, where local zoning ordinances permit it.
32
That question has already been asked and answered on this blog numerous times.
11 “Why did Cantwell vote against building a fence on the Mexican border?”
Uhhh…maybe because she’s not a dumbfuck like you?
I just sent Goldmark $150. I have also contacted them about helping them do a fundraiser in Seattle. McMorris is a Bush rubber stamp, and her ilk belong in prison, not the congress….. McMorris = Bush Crime Family Supporter! Did you hear she lied about a supposed imaginary earmark for the VA in Walla Walla? The Spokesman Review wrote an article about it.
Her favoaraility rating is in the 30’s also. She has obviously pissed off a lot of intelligent people in Eastern Washington. Most people realize Bush only worries about the super rich, and large corporations. Helping him, is helping them, and she is a rubber stamp. Pathetic. Spineless Republican.
Horsey Cartoon 8/29/2006 about the Cantwell/McGavick race:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/.....sp?id=1447
So what is better: a repentant sinner, or one who has not sinned?
(yea, yea, I know, “All have sinned and come short of the glory of God….”)
Why not spend millions building a burder fence/wall?
Because if you build an eight-foot wall, somebody will bring a ten-foot ladder. And the ladder is a lot less expensive than the wall.
46: “millions” should read “billions”. Funny, I still have trouble saying “billions”.
The argument raging here over historical preemptive military actions is relevant, obviously, to GOP attempts to justify Bush’s invasion of Iraq.
The fact is, humanity is aggressive by nature, and most of history’s wars have involved aggression on at least one side. Meanwhile, as the advent of modern weaponry has increased the deadliness and horrors of warfare, generations of philosophers and political scientists have struggled to figure out how to save humanity from the scourge of war.
The answer: Don’t start wars. Reject war as a legitimate means to political ends, or as an acceptable instrument of foreign policy. Of course, defensive military action is different; the right of self-defense has always been universally recognized.
The controversy over Bush’s invasion of Iraq revolves around several points:
1) Bush always intended to invade Iraq, even before the 2000 election, whether a justification existed or not;
2) Bush bypassed the international mechanisms set up to avoid wars;
3) Bush kept changing the justification for the invasion, as one rationale after another fell apart;
4) Bush’s failure to plan for the post-invasion occupation of Iraq exposed our forces to a deadly insurgency that continues unabated to this day;
5) Bush’s refusal to take the advice of military professionals left our military short of the force levels needed to prevent, contain, or defeat an insurgency;
6) Bush’s incompetent management of the war resulted in massive corruption, waste of taxpayer dollars, and exposed our soldiers to unnecessary dangers and harm (e.g., the failure to provide vehicle and body armor that persists to this day);
7) Bush’s torture policies turned the Iraqi civilian populace he purportedly toppled Saddam’s government to save against the U.S. intervention and our forces, who in Iraqi eyes are now a foreign enemy occupying their country;
8) Bush’s incompetent management of the rebuilding of Iraq further alienated the Iraqi people;
9) Bush’s mismanagement has resulted in overtaxing our military services, which unnecessarily increased the burden on our military personnel and their families, and has damaged morale while degrading the services’ ability to respond to other crises;
10) Bush’s deficit financing of his Iraq military adventure is having, and will continue to have for years to come, adverse effects on the national economy;
11) And, bottom line, Bush’s and Rumsfeld’s incompetent micromanaging of military strategy and tactics that should be left to military professionals, for polical purposes, has the U.S. bogged down in a guerilla stalemate and ultimately will result in the U.S. losing to the insurgents.
I have made the latter statement before, and some of the wingnuts have attempted to take me to task for being a defeatist. Sorry, wingnuts, I’m a realist not a defeatist. The defeat of our forces is the last thing I want, but your dumb-ass idol, George W. Bush, brought it about with his incompetent leadership. And you dumb-ass idiots blindly support this dolt, and his doltish administration. Those who read history know that, in military affairs, stupidity kills even more people than calculated evil — and therefore is the greater crime against humanity. No person, who doesn’t have his head completely buried up his ass, can fail to realize that we’re making no progress against the insurgency, there is no plausible scenario for victory, and the end is nowhere in sight. That’s simply the reality.
It’s easy for partisans to fling “cut and run” rhetoric — with no understanding of what they’re talking about. As one famous military historian noted, beating your head bloody against a stone wall is not strategy. (Or words to that effect.) No war is ever easy — something too many politicians fail to understand before going in — and a will to persevere in the face of difficulties and setbacks is certainly an essential ingredient to success. But blind, suicidal persistence does not lead to success; it simply compounds the cost of failure. A competent poker player knows “when to hold ’em, and when to fold ’em.” It’s one thing to be tough in combat; quite another to order your troops to make a frontal assault that has no chance of success, as World War I generals on both sides did over and over, at incalculable human cost, while never achieving a military decision with such tactics. When it becomes apparent the nation’s leadership doesn’t know how to fight and win a war, the only viable options are to (a) change the leadership, or (b) make the best peace you can and get out. Wingnuts refuse to do either, and young Americans will continue to bleed in vain until someone forces a policy change upon that. That’s the problem in a nutshell — the Republicans can’t win their war, and refuse to get out, so the bloody and useless stalemate will continue until they are removed from power and someone else deals with the problem.
And, as for the finger pointing, this is you guy’s show. All yours. Nobody is to blame but you. Democrats had nothing to do with your Iraq fiasco.
Jimmy you cunt what are you doing here? Do I have to run you off this board too you coward?
Stop lying. You don’t like the Goldmark poll because you want a theocratic right wing government. Any poll you don’t like you attack. Any poll that works out for republicans you say is great. Do you really think anyone here is going to buy into your bullshit?
46 ”
Why not spend millions building a burder fence/wall?
Because if you build an eight-foot wall, somebody will bring a ten-foot ladder. And the ladder is a lot less expensive than the wall.”
And in fact, the “somebody” will actually be the CHEAP LABOR REPUBLICANS who really want those people here, digging their ditches, picking their apples and cleaning their toilets (and making cement, if the strike hadn’t been settled) but want them too scared to expect diddly squat in return.
Seattle Times: McGavick Ad ‘Misleading’
“Last week, U.S. Senate candidate Mike McGavick announced that he deeply regretted his role in an ad during the 1988 Senate race … (that) was ‘not an accurate reflection’ of Lowry’s views and should have been pulled off the air. That apology may dog McGavick this campaign.
“On Monday, campaign managers for his opponent, Sen. Maria Cantwell, called on McGavick to ‘apply his own standard’ and withdraw his ‘misleading’ radio ad. In a news release, they said McGavick’s ad ‘falsely claims’ that Cantwell does not support allowing Washington residents to deduct what they pay in state and local sales tax from their federal income tax. …
“The bill would have repealed the federal estate tax and extended sales-tax deductibility to several states, including Washington. It also would have raised the national minimum wage but would have treated workers who earn tips, such as waiters, differently. McGavick’s radio spot about the bill’s failure struck at Cantwell.
“‘Maria Cantwell voted with her party, against our deduction and against our families,’ says the announcer …. ‘Sen. Cantwell said she voted “no” because she disagreed with parts of the bill, yet when she was offered a compromise, she refused to talk,’ the ad says. …
“Cantwell, in fact, co-authored the bill that first allowed state and local sales-tax deductibility in 2004. … In February, Cantwell sponsored a measure to make that deduction permanent. … Cantwell said she opposed the trifecta bill out of concern that the minimum-wage provision would actually wind up reducing the take-home pay of restaurant workers and others dependent on tips. … Cantwell also was concerned that Frist’s bill offered only a one-year extension of the sales-tax deduction, rather than making it permanent.
“Normally, McGavick’s ad might pass as a typical political tactic. But McGavick’s apology last week raised the stakes. … Cantwell’s aides say he is repeating his error. ‘McGavick knows full well that Senator Cantwell supports the Cantwell sales tax deduction bill,’ Meehan said in a news release.
“‘The problem with the apology approach is that once you have taken that road, you have to keep walking down it,’ said Larry Sabato of the University of Virginia, who specializes in national politics. ‘You can’t say, “Enough already” or start backtracking.’
Cantwell … used a longer radio version of her TV commercial on the trifecta bill to slam McGavick. ‘Mike McGavick is toeing the line of Republican leaders in D.C.’ by supporting potential cuts in tipped workers’ wages, says the ad … (which) continues, ‘McGavick is interested in scoring political points.'”
Roger Rabbit comment: McGavick is also interested in slipping his support for the Hard-Right’s cheap-labor agenda past Washington voters that he hopes are gullible enough to believe his lie that he’s a moderate.
This article is quoted under the Fair Use Doctrine; for complete story and/or copyright info, see http://tinyurl.com/rho43
Get your bumper sticker while supplies last:
Mike? Who
He’s the Problem, Not the Solution
RR 1t 48: I couldn’t have said it better myself. Bush (and Rumsfield, and Cheney), fancy themselves military geniuses. But they are really incompetent, because they follow ideological principles first, and ignore history.
They sincerely believe themselves to be the opposite of Johnson, yet they have continued to duplicate every mistake he made. They assumed that Iraq could be won the same way as WWII, with overwhelming force and superior technology, and upon removal of Saddam the joyous population would be throwing flowers at the feet of our trooops. They didn’t put enough troops on the ground, early enough, to avoid the later problems (Johnson avoided calling up the reserves & national guard for political purposes, Bush avoided reinstating the draft for political purposes). Other Presidents avoided getting involved on the ground in Iraq because they listened to those that warned them it would be a quagmire, but Rumsfield and Cheney and Bush, with no real military experience, assumed they could do it better than the experts.
On top of that, none of them have apparantly read the history of Iraq during the 20th century, and realized that no matter how bad Iraqis have it under their own rulers, they always prefer it to a foreign occupation, no matter how benign. They have a long history of insurgent struggles against foreign authorities.
I could go on, but what’s the point? The one thing that depresses me most is that so many of the mistakes that have already been made are beyond correction. We are experiencing ALL of the worse-case scenarios posited with an American invasion of Iraq. Saddam Hussein is still alive, and he still has quite a few supporters in Iraw who are waiting for his release when the Americans leave. The Shiites and Sunnis and Kurds are already engaged in a civil war with one another. Iran already has a strong influence over half the population, and one-third of the territory, of Iraq. If we stay, we will only be caught in the middle of a civil war, and ultimate forced to take sides and end up fighting in Iraq for decades to come. If we leave, the civil war will happen anyway, and the ultimate winner may be Iran.
In a way, Cheney and Rumsfield are right: if we leave Iraq now, Iraq will collapse into civil war. But what they are not saying is that it will do so anyway, the BEST we can do is delay it for a few more months, assuming we are more competent than we have been to date.
53 Rummy has a worse misconception–aside from possibly being in the early stages of Alzheimer’s. He’s actually one of the few people in the entire neocon cadre of self-proclaimed military geniuses who actually served in the military, but he was in the Air Force in the 50’s, and suffers from the characeristic flyboy’s misonception that conventional wars can be won by reliance on superior technology. This was in fact one of the essential mistakes of Vietnam–that what determines who wins on the ground is the messy face-to-face stuff.
The point is that Republicans are incompetent at governace, and should not be allowed a continued leadership role in it.
They can’t make war.
They can’t make peace.
They can’t defend the nation.
They are dangerous.
Vote for Goldberg. Vote for Burner. Vote for Cantwell.
We can’t afford the alternative, finacially or mortally.
Goldmark
ArtFart: Superior air power counts when moonbats are removed from the decision making process. If bunker busters along with other incendiary weapons were used, dramatic outcomes would be seen. Moonbats create insufficient motivation to prosecute a war like they did in WWII
54: Oops, you are correct, and I was wrong. Rumsfield was in active military service in 1954-57 as a naval aviator, and a reservist therafter until 1975. His DOD bio didn’t say anything about combat operations in Korea, so I suspect he was still in training at the end of the war. But he did wear the uniform, and unlike Bush, he completed his full term of service.
So I will, in the future, refrain from calling him a “chickenhawk”, and instead will call him “an incompetent, arrogant, egotist”.
Cheney and Rove, I will continue to call “chickenhawks”, with good reason.
57 So are you claiming that there’s been some sort of limitation on the use of air power in Iraq and Afghanistan? I know that’s one of the arguments for why we failed in Vietnam, but even that’s a little dubious in view of the tremendous amount of ordinance actually used there.
57: JCH and MSW apparantly ascribe to the theory that we should use nuclear weapons to kill all Muslims, and let God sort them out.
Of course, a few Muslim imams have been arguing that since Americns feel this way, they should acquire nuclear weapons and smuggle them into the U.S., in order to do it to us before we do it to them. Funny thing about preemptive strikes – as a philosophy, it tends to get out of hand, and hasten a conflict which might have well been avoidable.
57
Typically wingnut ignorance. What do you mean by “bunker busters?” Nukes? They don’t work (apart from the pandora’s box that using tactical nuclear weapons would open). The U.S. and its allies used overwhelming air power — including carpet bombing of cities — in WW2; yet the military decision was won by naval blockades, destroying Japan’s shipping, and slugging it out on the ground. Air power? Germany’s war production peaked in July 1944, precisely when the strategic bombing campaign was at its height. The rubble created by the bombing hindered, not facilitated, the allied ground troops’ advance into German territory. You know nothing about military strategic, or history. Your post proves that.
“strategy” not “strategic”
Korean hostilities ended in 1953, before Rumsfeld entered service, and he was out before Vietnam ramped out, so Rumsfeld served in the peacetime military.
59
The only ordnance that wasn’t used in Vietnam was chemical weapons and nukes. Nixon considered using nukes, but apart from the political risks, they wouldn’t have been effective against the dispersed and dug in enemy field armies, or against the Ho Chi Minh Trail, which was not actually a “trail” but a 100-mile-wide swath of territory.
57.
The wingnuts are in charge. Any lack in motivation comes from them. In 90 days, the war in Iraq will have exceeded the duration between Pearl Harbor and VJ Day, get your ass in gear.
Whatever is lacking, it isn’t money and lives spent.
Unlike some liberals, I’m not categorically opposed to the use of napalm as a battlefield weapon. There is a popular misconception that napalm inflicts a horrible death on the targeted enemy troops; to the contrary, within the drop zone, mortality is 100% and it kills very quickly. The cause of death is inhaling the superheated air and gases, which kills almost instantly. Yes, you may get some cases of burn injuries and slow death on the fringes of the drop, but the numbers of these casualties usually are very small.
Napalm is one of the very few weapons capable of taking out opponents holed up in underground bunkers and tunnels; it does so by consuming the air supply and suffocating them. Used in close air support of outnumbered and beseiged ground troops fighting off human wave attacks, it is a lifesaver. There are very few Vietnam infantry veterans who criticize napalm; many owe their lives to it.
In my opinion, napalm should be used judiciously and intelligently by military commanders, but unless the weapon is misapplied and/or abused, I would not support a ban on its use.
MWS @ 57
Re: ” incendiary weapons ”
It seems to me that you’re asking for more indiscriminate maiming and murder of civilians, correct?
64: Brings to mind the image of hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of bombs being dropped onto an empty dirt jungle trail.
I remember seeing a picture of the Viet Cong in Cu Chi province using B-52 craters as a natural ampatheatre for their nightime political indocrtinations.
On the other hand, Saddam Hussein was enough of an idiot to try to fight a WWII style war in the Iraqi/Kuwaiti desert during Gulf War I, against the Americans and their allies. By putting his troops well away from civilian populations, the Americans were able to use B-52’s to inflict quite a bit of damage. Warthogs and tank-busting helicopters found they were able to hit their targets at dusk, when the sand quickly cooled and the steel tanks left a distinct heat signature.
But put the soldiers within a civilian population, and you make Americans choose between killing lots of civilians or letting the shooters get away. JCH and MSW don’t see that as a problem – “kill ’em all, and let God sort them out”. The rest of us recognize that although some civilian casualties will occur in any war, needless murder of civilians is morally reprehensible and also bad public relations with respect to the rest of the world.
Today’s financial news is full of probes and investigations:
“BOSTON (Aug. 29) – Schering-Plough Corp. said Tuesday it has agreed to pay $435 million and will plead guilty to conspiracy to settle a federal investigation into its drug sales and marketing practices and its clinical trial programs.” http://tinyurl.com/okm36
“NEW YORK (Aug. 29) – Federal investigators are examining whether BP PLC manipulated crude-oil and unleaded-gasoline markets, signaling a rise in regulatory scrutiny of the British energy giant, said lawyers and traders close to the case.” http://tinyurl.com/ogeun
“NEW YORK (Aug. 28) – (A)n analysis of the nation’s biggest mergers over the last 12 months indicates that the securities of 41 percent of the companies receiving buyout bids exhibited abnormal and suspicious trading in the days and weeks before those deals became public.” http://tinyurl.com/jk2x2
And Republicans like McGavick, Reichert, and McMorris want us to entrust our Social Security funds to Wall Street? Either they’re nuts, or they think we’re nuts, or both.
ROGER RABBIT POLL
McGavick, Reichert, and McMorris
[ ] 1. are nuts
[ ] 2. think we’re nuts
[ ] 3. both of the above
Well, if you vote for any of them, you ARE nuts. Wing nuts, that is.
For photo of wing nut, click here: http://tinyurl.com/rrpry
Before you wingnuts get too excited about repeating Hiroshima and Nagasaki, realize that the intended target is not beaten up like Japan was, and has the capacity to cut off both its own and the Saudi’s oil exports.
But put the soldiers within a civilian population, and you make Americans choose between killing lots of civilians or letting the shooters get away. JCH and MSW don’t see that as a problem – “kill ‘em all, and let God sort them out”. The rest of us recognize that although some civilian casualties will occur in any war, needless murder of civilians is morally reprehensible and also bad public relations with respect to the rest of the world.
Commentby rhp6033 [………………………………..Well put. Kill them all, and there will be no more problems. Bottom line: The terrorists have outsmarted dumb ass libs like you!]
rhp6033, I must have missed your “hand worry” posts on Dresdin, Hamburg, Schwinford [sp], Toyko, and the nuke drops. The idea is to kill the enemy and win the war. This is “not nice”, but sure beats 17 year old kids in the USMC kicking in doors.
74, cont……….BTW, B-52 Arc Light and Linebacker strikes, done long enoungh and hard enough, work EVERY time. If I’m wrong, then an SSBN can always solve the Muuuuuuuuuuslim problem. AGAIN, the idea of young USMC and USA kids kicking in doors is bullshit. After huge air strikes killing hundreds of thousands, the raghead terrorists will quit fucking with America.
The only ordnance that wasn’t used in Vietnam was chemical weapons and nukes. Nixon considered using nukes, but apart from the political risks, they wouldn’t have been effective against the dispersed and dug in enemy field armies, or against the Ho Chi Minh Trail, which was not actually a “trail” but a 100-mile-wide swath of territory.
Commentby Roger Rabbit […………………………………………….Nukes in Hanoi and the Harbor would have been very effective.]
76, cont…..I’d be interested in General Curtiss LeMay’s opinion on your post. hehe, JCH
At this moment the food arrives. SPIRO, the waiter, elaborately lifts off the silver covers and with a flourish distributes the plates of food. Each order looks identical – a big splodge of brown lumpy stuff. The only differences between the lumps are the Identifying photographs on sticks stuck in each. The beautiful color photos match the photos which were on the menus.
SPIRO: Monsieur, Mesdames, Bon appetit.
ALL (except SAM:) Merci.
They are just about to dip into their respective splodges when there is a terrific explosion – a huge hole is blasted out of the wall to the kitchen. Chaos erupts around the carnage as WAITERS try putting out the flames with extinguishers. PEOPLE, bloody and dying, are moaning. The DINERS not actually affected by the blast look up for a moment and then, with a few raised eyebrows, go back to their meals.
IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE EXPLOSION.
MOTHER: What were we saying?
SAM: (picking bomb debris out of his brown lump): This isn’t rare!
MOTHER raises her arm to gain the attention of the MAITRE D who is frantically trying to deal with the emergency. The activity in the background has increased throughout the conversation. The fire-brigade has arrived with sirens blaring. Ministry TROOPS have charged in and are arresting WAITERS. Stretchers have been bought in for the injured and these are being rushed past our little group’s table. The MAITRE D comes to the table, his shirt now blood-spattered.
MAITRE D: I am sorry, Madam … I don’t know what to say … this very rarely happens to us – I’ll do what I can straight away
He hurries away.
MOTHER: Really, Sam – when are you going to do something about these terrorists?
SAM: What? Now? It’s my lunch hour.
57
Typically wingnut ignorance. What do you mean by “bunker busters?” Nukes? They don’t work (apart from the pandora’s box that using tactical nuclear weapons would open). The U.S. and its allies used overwhelming air power – including carpet bombing of cities – in WW2; yet the military decision was won by naval blockades, destroying Japan’s shipping, and slugging it out on the ground. Air power? Germany’s war production peaked in July 1944, precisely when the strategic bombing campaign was at its height. The rubble created by the bombing hindered, not facilitated, the allied ground troops’ advance into German territory. You know nothing about military strategic, or history. Your post proves that.
Commentby Roger Rabbit [……………………………………………Anyone would “disagrees” “knows nothing” about military history. RR, You must have been enlisted. Must have been!!!]
54: Oops, you are correct, and I was wrong. Rumsfield was in active military service in 1954-57 as a naval aviator, and a reservist therafter until 1975. His DOD bio didn’t say anything about combat operations in Korea, so I suspect he was still in training at the end of the war. But he did wear the uniform, and unlike Bush, he completed his full term of service.
So I will, in the future, refrain from calling him a “chickenhawk”, and instead will call him “an incompetent, arrogant, egotist”.
Cheney and Rove, I will continue to call “chickenhawks”, with good reason.
Commentby rhp6033 […..I must have missed your post on Bill Clinton’s military service. hehe, JCH]
Screwoff@73 It hasn’t been liberals, but dumbfuck wingnuts who have been the bollockses in this conflict. It was incompetent Bush Generals who let Osama bin Laden escape Tora Borah. It has been the incredibly inept conduct of the occupation of Iraq that has led us to this sorry pass. . .
73
“Kill them all”
I thought you guys went into Iraq to save Iraqis from a murderous dictator? That’s what you told us, right? Has that changed? What’s the new Excuse-For-The-War of the day?
A guerilla force can neutralize a superpower’s firepower advantage in 3 ways.
1. “Hug the enemy” — kept their fighters in close contact with the opposing force so the latter can’t use its fire support without killing its own troops.
2. Mingle with the civilian population.
3. Entrench — guerilla forces usually fight on their own soil, often have years or decades to prepare the battlefield, and can shield troop concentrations, command and communications installations, hospitals, and other facilities from heavy firepower by undergrounding them. Even nuclear weapons can’t take out caves and deep bunkers or tunnels.
Leaving aside the prospect of Iranian militias storming into Iraq, Jughead, in the weeks after the lovely explosions in Iran, what do you propose doing about the uprising in Pakistan, Musharaff’s overthrow, and the smuggling of their nuclear materials through Afghanistan? Or the similar uprising in Saudi Arabia, which will obviate the necessity of Iran sinking tankers in the Strait of Hormuz, since the radical govenment will cut us off?
Signed,
Curious.
Excuse me MOONBATS but where did I speak, write or recommend NUCLEAR WEAPONS?
Everyone here needs to understand and comprehend the mind of a MOONBAT. If the words do not work they place their own in there. They use the MSM to broadcast bullshit! Kind of like V for Vendetta!
Moonbats care more about revenge for their loses in 2000 and 2004 than moving this country forward!!!!!
Excuse me losses not loses!
In several posts above, JCH inadvertently reveals why the ReThugs really don’t want to “win” this war, or bring it to an end, period. Every time they go before their (carefully hand-picked) adoring public, they want to get ’em all fired up and drooling by saying “just lookit how many sand-niggers we’re killin’ for y’all”. Just cast yer votes for us, and we’ll kill even more and y’all will be safe ‘n happy!” For good measure, they like to imply that if we all play real nice, they’ll reward us by dropping a few nukes so we’ll get to watch the dirty little ragheads really fry. My gawd, we haven’t had this much fun since they stopped the KKK from lynching pickanny kids fer stealing candy. What a grrreat thing it is to be an amerukin!!!!!
If any lurker reading the wingnut commentary on this thread has any notion about continuing to give GWB a blank check in Congress, bend over and kiss your ass goodbye first.
85.
50 feet is the maximum depth a warhead dropped from the air into dry rock soil could maintain its integrity until detonated. For the shock to reach down to 1,000 feet with enough strength to destroy a hard target in dry rock, the warhead would require a yield significantly larger than 100 kilotons.
Phase II of Advanced Concept Technology Demonstrations of non-nuclear bunker busters was a weapon known as BLU-116, capable of penetrating through approximately 11 ft of concrete, almost twice as deep as the BLU-109.
Thermobaric bombs are, fuel-air explosives that produce a wall of fire follows a high-pressure shock wave through the enclosed tunnels and spaces to kill everything in its path, were used in Afghanistan. These weapons require accuracy to be effective, meaning knowledge of any vulnerable points such as tunnel entrances or air ducts.
It is doubtful that effectivness of a non-nuclear assault would be enough. Most targets connected to Iran’s nascent nuclear industry might, arguably, be taken out with conventional weapons, but any non-nuclear attack would leave a high possibility that crucial aspects of the Iran’s nuclear capacity (the people who carry it out) would survive and the facilities rebuilt.
Then again, the prospect that our intelligence is adequate to know were in hell the Iranian nuclear facilities are is suspect. Where are those Iraqi WMD?
RE: 87 I apologize for the excess to which I went in attempting to satirize JCH’s voicing of the wingnuts’ appealing to their constituency’s baser instincts. It’s impossible to exceed JCH’s ability to be delusional, outrageous and offensive on his own.
Anyone named “Artfart” cannot be taken seriously.
I guess the V for Vendetta hit home. Conservatives don’t control the MSM, moonbats do!
Think about it moonbats:
1.) MSM Hates GWB
2.) Printed the Bill Burkett Monologues
3.) Called Florida for Gore before it was over
4.) Called blue states with higher numbers than reality
5.) Almost called Ohio but knew better
6.) Hated the term Axis of Evil. Now we know GWB was right.
Need I say more?
Furball and the Furballettes can find Furball’s armadillo and roast it for dinner!
Good try again Goldy. I copied it!
And Maria Cantwell is a “Stinking Liar” except she does not admit that!
“Working hard to cut the taxes of the citizens of this state”
Bullshit!
@49 Left Turd you fucking fool- you can’t even run your niece to ground, which is the only reason that particular 4 year old is still a virgin. You tried messing with me the other day and got your ass wiped up and down every thread on the board, so stfu and go back over to that wimp Postman’s blog where you can lie to your heart’s content.
I mean how can anyone take you seriously when you’re the bitch of a Chocolate Moose?
Go play jerk-off with PM while he keeps trying to guess which caucus excommunicated Tim. He’s been wrong twice so far, the dumb fuck.
And while you are getting your jollies with PM, ask davey to explain the difference between “testing the message” and “polling”- you might actually learn something- although I doubt it. Anybody who thinks a state with a republican governor and three out of five U.S. House members from the GOP is a “deep blue” state is pretty pathetic, don’t you think. especially since it too is a state that supports tip-slavery…
Jimmy you’re so fucking easy. How many times have you declared me irrelevant or that you’ll ignore me only to come running back to me on your knees hoping to suck my dick? You are one pitiful punk. I beat you like a red-headed step child over at Postman’s and you cried like a bitch, tucked your tail between your legs and ran like a cowardly republican. How long before you give up here you cum-drunk whore?
and by the way, your sister says hi again!
Anyone named “Artfart” cannot be taken seriously.
Commentby Doctor JCH Kennedy
Oh, like a street hustler named John Craig who spends most of his time blowing sailors can be?
98, Rich and retired in beautiful Hawaii. While you are scuming for your POS paycheck, I’m surfing, tanning, and pissing on you in the 50th state!!!! Regards, JCH
“It’s impossible to exceed JCH’s ability to be delusional,”
Commentby ArtFart……………Outside Shaq’s at Kapoho was 5-7 feet today, “ArtFart”. That really is all you need to know!!
JCH @ 73
JCH @ 73
Speaking of “dumb ass”, there’s a guy in here who thinks that killing millions of innocent civilians will stop terrorism.
JCH @ 73
Speaking of “dumb ass”, there’s a guy in here who thinks that killing millions of innocent civilians will stop terrorism.
Commentby Daddy Love […It worked in Japan ande Germany!!!! I say “Let’s give it a try!!!”]