So, the Sonics will pay the city $45 million to break the final two years of their Key Arena lease (up from the $26.5 million offer the city rejected in February), and move to Oklahoma City for the 2008-2009 season, leaving their name and team history behind like a ghostly echo. Ah well.
Sure, the move was inevitable from the day Clay Bennett bought the team, and I suppose the mayor and his minions should be congratulated for squeezing an extra $18.5 million out of the lying bastard. But rather than settle (and it does feel like settling in more than one sense of the word), I would have preferred watching the team’s owners bled dry over the final two years of the lease, the arena as empty as Bennett’s promise of good faith negotiations.
Nothing wrong with a little spite now and then.
UPDATE:
The Seattle Times editorial board chimes in:
Seattle sports fans can only feel despair as the high-tech shining city of the future loses its 40-year basketball franchise and a ton of civic pride to a group of dishonest brokers from Oklahoma City.
The team is leaving town. That is all anyone will remember.
Huh. Actually, that’s not all anyone will remember. Some of us will remember that the Times ed board itself was unintentionally complicit in Bennett’s deception, vouching for his integrity at the same time he was brokering so dishonestly.
There have been whispers and shouts that SuperSonics owner Clay Bennett is only buying time until he can move the teams to his home state of Oklahoma. This is an unfair claim. Bennett has done nothing to suggest that moving the teams is a foregone conclusion.
If the Times had devoted only half the cynicism toward Bennett that they showed toward Darcy Burner, perhaps they might have helped foster a consensus in which elected officials and civic leaders could have pursued a more pragmatic approach toward defending our team from poachers. Or perhaps not. Either way, the Team Blethen blew it.
UPDATE, UPDATE:
A more terse goodbye to the Sonics.
Goldy, let me be as succinct about this as possible:
FUCK CLAYBOY AND THE REDNECK MAFIA
FUCK HOWARD SCHULTZ
FUCK THE OKLAHOMA CITY CARPETBAGGERS
FUCK THE NATIONAL BASKETBALL ASSOCIATION
FUCK DAVID STERN
Let them take their toy and get the fuck out. Clayboy will be holding OKC hostage for a new playpen in a few years anyway, probably threatening to take the Carpetbaggers to Europe or some otherplace dumb enough to buy his bullshit.
And by the way, GO SOUNDERS!
So, Mayor Greg sells out 41 years of Seattle basketball tradition for a jingling bag of nickels…
This is all a result of the ARROGANCE, IGNORANCE and IMPOTENCE of the (ummm… Democrat) politicians at the city, county and state level.
At least Goldy didn’t count the phantom $30 million that won’t ever be paid — not because we get a team, but because the state will fiddle around with the Key Arena financing next year. If they’re willing to piss away millions in math education money, they’ll surely screw this up, too.
Even if the city had lost the case and any appeals, they STILL would’ve received millions in damages.
One down two to go!
$45M and we got rid of a sports team to boot. Sounds like a grand deal to me.
@2
You should be happy the market and freedom prevailed!
real mark- so did you want to pay for the new arena? cause that’s what it would have taken. I win and two years of half-hearted basketball was not worth a $45M exchange.
I went to every single Sonic home game and playoff game in the 1977-78 runner-up and 1978-79 Championship Season. Those were the glory years. I gave up my tickets in the mid-80’s
Now…I only watch the NBA Championship Series.
I have had no desire to go to a game in the past decade.
The NBA is a joke.
Games have been fixed.
Players & Owners have no loyalty to the team or City.
Would rather spend my entertainment $$ fishing, hunting, biking, hiking…..doing stuff outdoors.
NBA–Permanently ruined.
Good riddance.
The loss suffered because of this is the result of typical Seattle stupidity to begin with. My guess is the result of litigation was problematic. Time to move on.
Who will be held accountable for taxpayer losses??
re 6: What’s more, the OK crackers aren’t going to support NBA basketball unless the team’s composition starts to strongly reflect a genetic background that is said to have begun in and around the Caucasus Mountains..
I’m guessing this is good. I remember when San Diego dumped the Clippers…
Aren’t all those rich Okies Republicans? Wouldn’t a Democratic sweep in November be revenge enough?
michael @ 4
Actually, had the city let the case go to verdict, THEN the free market system would’ve been allowed to run its course. Instead, the city sold out for a pittance. They won’t pay off the Key Arena bonds. They’re going to piss that money away on something like million-dollar, gold-plated toilets for homeless double-voters plus a 1% Skim for Art*.
* NOTE: Contrary to popular belief, the 1% doesn’t go to “the arts.” Instead, it goes to a local union boss named Art.
K @ 5
The new arena would have been paid for through an extension of the hotel/motel tax. The only locals paying for it would’ve been those cheating on their spouses for a quickie overnight.
@11
Judging by the headlines lately that would be a tax on Republican office holders.
@10
Settling is part of the process, that’s how your wife wound up with you (sorry, couldn’t help myself).
Love the comment about Art/art.
Hhehehehe
Oklahoma (A bunch of hicks) strong arms the Sonics away from Seattle. Well at least you weenie, liberal Seattle males can watch the lezbos (Storm) play. hahahahaha
Did anyone read NBA Commissioner David Stern’s statement? One sentence reads as follows:
“However, given the lead times associated with any franchise acquisition or relocation and with a construction project as complex as a KeyArena renovation, authorization of the public funding needs to occur by the end of 2009 in order for there to be any chance for the NBA to return to Seattle within the next five years.”
Piss on Stern, his continued extortion, and the NBA. The actions and statements of David Stern, Clay Bennett, Howard Schultz, Tim Donaghy, etc. show the NBA to be a discredited bush league, devoid of integrity, and unworthy of our attention.
Piss on The Seattle Times for its dishonest editorial response as well. The Seattle Times won’t honestly discuss its self-interest. The fact is Vancouver, BC is no less a rich, world-class city because it lost the Grizzlies. In fact, most people already have gotten over the loss except for Frank Blethen, Sherman Alexie, and Josh Feit, The Stranger’s retired half-wit. The Seattle Times should pull itself out of its complacent doldrums, get creative, and find something else to engage it readers and prospective readers. The Vancouver Sun manages to survive with only one “major league” sport in its city, and the NBA isn’t “major league” anymore.
While I’m not a Democrat or a supporter of Democrats for the most part (I’m not a Republican or GOPer or a supporter of Republicans or GOPers either), I think Speaker Frank Chopp deserves a lot of credit for resisting the pressure of the extortion last year. Mayor Nickels and others applied some pressure today. Let’s let Speaker Chopp know that he should hold tough. Moreover, let’s let him know that we should eliminate the sales tax exemption on newspapers.
Well gota go. I am having too much fun on the Seattle Times blog blaming the democrats for the Sonics leaving. hahhaha Oh I have a lot of work to do.
TRM @ 11
Let’s see. If the government taxes other people to pay for something from which you benefit, that’s OK. If the government taxes you for something from which other people benefit, that’s “socialism”. Got it.
By the way, using that particular picture for your avatar is absurdly sophomoric. Do you also have, on your bedroom wall, a picture of a rabbit with a pencil mustache?
I think you’ve summed up current conservative thinking quite nicely.
re 15: Well, I guess we all have our priorities…
2. Could you please send me a report on what all this litigation cost the city of Seattle, you know City attorneys, judges, secretaries, scribes, faxes emails, etc etc etc etc etc etc before we start bragging about what we got. You know, Costs minus expenses. I suspect we barely broke even…Thanks
My point is if you inherit a home in a will, and the will is contested, you sort of have to fight or not, and if so deduct all your legal expenses from the final reward before arriving at what the reward was.
Knowing attorney fees, and with Slade at $600.00 an hour, and only one of many many, it is a reasonable request.
So what has all this litigation cost the city of Seattle?
This looks like a major WIN-WIN to me. State, county and city taxpayers avoided pouring $300 million or more down the rathole for an expensive, brand new, rent-free arena for the Sonics. And the City of Seattle gets a gross recovery of $45 million (probably still around $40 million after their legal fees) to boot.
Have any of you actually looked at the details of the settlement? Its really a great victory for the city. First of all the Sonics likely would have won the case because the standard in cases like this is the leasee can buy out of the lease and while Bennett looked like a liar and a fool with those emails Slade Gorton’s stunt also didn’t look very good. Secondly this settlement sets up Seattle to receive another team in the near future (30 million more from Bennett in 5 years if we don’t have a replacement team).
Also remember Bennett isn’t out of the woods yet (even with this settlement), Schultz’s lawsuit is still out there.
6 I’m with ya all the way on this one, man. Hell, the finals this year were pretty pathetic, watching the “Lucking Fakers” let it get away from them because golly gee they might break a fingernail.
The city should follow up on this by passing an ordinance prohibiting Clay Bennett or David Stern from ever again setting foot inside the city limits. Either that, or making it legal for any citizens to pelt them with eggs if they do.
Hey, it could have been worse, though. Suppose we’d been stupid enough to go ahead and build that half-billion dollar crystal palace in Renton. Once it was done, Bennett and Stern would have laughed at us all and moved the team anyway.
1 Hey, don’t forget to leave a few good hard strokes for Wally Walker. If he hadn’t done his best to prevent the Sonics from being a winning team for years, Schultz probably wouldn’t have sold it.
10 Bullshit. Big league sports aren’t a “free market” any more than your neighborhood crack dealer is a pharmacist.
7 Oh, they’re more than willing to be entertained by their very own band of minstrels. Just watch what happens, though, when one of those guys walks into a cowboy bar and tries to pick up a white female.
10/12 Shut the hell up. All these years and I have yet to see a stinking dime.
AF @ 25
My “free market” comment was in response to 4.
@ 27
There is not a chance in hell that anyone would let you be the “boss” of anything.
Headless Lucy @ 7, ArtFart @ 26
The Sonics are moving to Oklahoma City, not to some almost all-white enclave in West Virginia. In fact, they are moving to a more ethnically diverse area than where they are presently located — an area with a much higher percentage of the local population coming from the ethnic group which dominates among the team’s members.
King County (WA), 2000 Census: 1,737,034 people, 75.73% White, 5.40% Black or African American,
Oklahoma County (OK), 2000 Census: 660,448 people, 70.44% White, 15.03% Black or African American
Seattle (WA), 2000 Census: 563,374 people, 67.1 percent White, 9.7 percent African American
Oklahoma City (OK), 2000 Census: 506,132 people, 66.9% White, 14.7% Black or African American (note that OKC includes portions of three other counties, which explains why Black percentage in OKC is actually lower than Oklahoma County as a whole)
I would venture to bet that pro basketball players in OKC will find no shortage of women who are interested in them.
Richard, good job at showing those two KLOWNS their errors.
Now please see: http://www.horsesass.org/?p=5123#comment-790222
Thanks,
Puddy
People can blame parties, political hacks, and self absorbed yuppies but the bottom line is a distinct lack of butts in seats. Be you liberal or conservative, the market does not reward incompetent management without government intervention. What will we do when the truly incompetent Mariners start whining about their lack of profitability? Build a new stadium? Remodel it? Move them to OK City? It’s always someone else’s fault, never their own.
Who cares? I never attended a single Sonics game! Why would anyone pay money to watch a bunch of oversized adolescents bounce and throw a ball? If the crowd needs an excuse to scream and yell, just read about the latest GOP outrages in the fucking newspaper! The Times doesn’t need the Sonics. They can fill column inches with their rants against inheritance taxes until kingdom come.
@6 “I went to every single Sonic home game and playoff game … ” and then bought stock in Wells Fargo bank. No wonder you had to move out of state to make ends meet! Making money doesn’t do you any good if you piss it away.
Clay Bennett sends a little thank you note to Nick Licata.
re 29: Why does the fact that there is statistically more ethnic diversity in OK City indicate that black-dominated NBA basketball will be supported by the white majority there?
Your statistics may be correct, but your concomitant conclusion is incorrect. I can statistically prove to you that Little Italy in NYC is ‘statistically’ a more diverse area than OK City, but that would not prove that black families moving into Little Italy would be more acceptable to the residents of Little Italy than in places where the greater local area is less diverse.
See what I mean, Richard? Use a little common sense once in a while and stop trying to use numbers to prove your case when conceptually, the numbers don’t support your case.
All you end up with is kudos from PudWax — who spells clowns incorrectly — just like Mr. Cynilingus.
Been staying away from here for quite some time, but now I have a question for all the tax lovers here:
So now that the City of Seattle has been paid off for the Key renovations….
WILL THAT TAX GO AWAY????
NO???? Well Mr Can’t Rub 2 Nickels together, where’s that money going if you and the City just got paid off? Still gonna collect that tax though, huh? FOR WHAT?
headless–
WTF??
Richard’s statistics and point are well taken.
OK City is more ethnically diverse.
The NBA has a vast majority of Black players.
I think they will be highly successful there….especially with University of Texas star Kevin Durrant as the center piece star.
Folks are very territorial.
They saw Durant play in College albeit only 1 year.
Seattle folks are fairweather fans.
Look at the Mariners now.
Seahawks during lean years.
You could get tickets for free.
I grew up watching the Braves/Brewers, Cubs and White Sox. Awesome fans.
Seattle is not a real NBA Town unless they have a winner.
Good Riddance. I played Basketball since I was 8 years old. I went to College & Pro games for years. None of the players of today compare with Bill Russell, John Havlicek, Elgin Baylor, Jerry West, Wilt, Bird, McHale, Parrish, Dr. J, Isiah Thomas etc.
They simply do not measure up skill-wise.
There are tremendous athletes for sure.
But I find today’s NBA’ers B-O-R-I-N-G!
delete
33. Roger Rabbit spews:
“@6 “I went to every single Sonic home game and playoff game … ” and then bought stock in Wells Fargo bank. No wonder you had to move out of state to make ends meet! Making money doesn’t do you any good if you piss it away.”
Now Rog..
At least I didn’t buy BOOM!!
It was at 44 around June 1.
It’s now at $29.20.
Not your best trade Rog.
I will give you fellow-investor Kudo’s on NOV.
I’m concerned for GBS.
JRCC dropped 22.2% yesterday and is off another 5% today….down to 43.21
His other pick, ICO, has also plummetted
4 days ago it was at 13.25..now it’s 10.66
My Wells Fargo??
Average cost per share $24.225
Currently trading at 24.05
I’m down $700…big deal.
Ex-dividend date is in about 1 month.
I’ll get $1240.
check
Fat Greg just got a $45 million dollar windfall.
What chance is there for the people to whom that money would have gone if the Sonics had played, (the independent vendors, local restaurants, etc) will see a dime of it?
Richard didn’t say that OKC is more “ethnically diverse”, he said it had a higher percentage of it’s population which matched the predominate racial makeup of the Sonics players (or any other NBA team).
In other words, most NBA players are black, and there is a higher % of black people in OKC than in Seattle.
But what Richard’s statistics don’t show (with all due respect to him) is that King County is more racially diverse than OKC, in that OKC residents tend to be white OR black, with only a small percentage of other races. In contrast, King County has a higher percentage of other races, including hispanic and asian races, than many other locations in the U.S.
And the 2000 census used by Richard is understandably the most convenient statistical breakdown to use at this point, but it is also a bit aged. I suspect that more current figures will show King County to have an even more diverse population.
But the reason the Sonics players were dismayed at moving to OKC doesn’t have that much to do with the relative % of black population in either location. It has to do with the amount of social inter-action among the races. In OKC, there tends to be black neighborhoods or white neighborhoods, but in King County there is much more diversity in residence. Likewise, the number of mixed-race relationships and marriages tends to be much higher here than in OKC.
Finally, Seattle has a more cosmopolitan environment than in OKC, which the NBA players find enjoyable.
By the way, Los Angeles hasn’t had a football team for quite a few years now, but nobody has accused L.A. of being diminished as a consequence thereof.
On the other hand, I spoke to someone from Japan on Monday night, who told me that the Japanese consider Seattle to be a major world-class city – in large part because this is where Ichiro plays baseball.
For myself, I had only a minor interest in keeping the Sonics playing here. I’ve only attended a handfull of games, each time as a guest in a business suite as part of a corporate function. For me, the game doesn’t even begin to get interesting until the final two minutes of play. Unless it’s the playoffs, I felt like the players were just going through the motions. I like the Storms games better – more teamwork, better fundamentals.
I’m not about to blame the politicians for not giving in to the NBA extortion attempt. It was a fool’s bargain they demanded. The ONLY way to keep the team in Seattle was to throw so much money and benefits in the direction of Clay & the Sonics that they couldn’t afford to NOT sell the team to somebody else (probably another non-local), taking the benefits in the process, and the next owner will seek to move the team anyway.
I wish Seattle could have gotten more out of the Sonics, but I’m sure their attorneys evaluated their chances of winning and this was the best they could do. So goodby, and good riddence, Clay Bennett. Don’t let the door hit you where the Good Lord split ‘ya. I plan to remind OKC fans about this day in about five years, when the Sonics complain that the OKC arena isn’t good enough, and they have to pony up a half-billion dollars or so for a new arena or Bennett will take his ball-club and go to yet another location.
rhp6033 @ 42
How is King County more “diverse” than Oklahoma County? The only minority groups less prevalent in Oklahoma County are Asians and Pacific Islanders. On the other hand, Oklahoma County has far more Blacks and Native Americans than King County, considerably more Hispanics, and basically the same percentage of mixed race individuals. Overall, Oklahoma County has fewer Whites and more non-Whites in comparison to King County.
King County (WA), 2000 Census: 1,737,034 people, 75.73% White, 5.40% Black or African American, 0.92% Native American, 10.81% Asian, 0.52% Pacific Islander, 2.56% from other races, and 4.06% from two or more races. 5.48% of the population were Hispanic or Latino of any race.
Oklahoma County (OK), 2000 Census: 660,448 people, 70.44% White, 15.03% Black or African American, 3.42% Native American, 2.81% Asian, 0.08% Pacific Islander, 4.36% from other races, and 3.87% from two or more races. 8.68% of the population were Hispanic or Latino of any race.
There are certainly some majority Black neighborhoods in Oklahoma City. This isn’t surprising, given that there is a considerably higher proportion of Black population.
Seattle used to have majority Black neighborhoods — even though Washington never had laws requiring racial segregation (in contrast to Oklahoma). This has changed with the influx of other minorities to our area, and gentrification of inner city neighborhoods. In any event, there are many neighborhoods in King County where non-Hispanic Whites are a relatively small minority.
So is that Key Arena sales tax gonna go away?
They just got the renovations bond paid in full so that should mean no more tax payer money to continue to pay off a bond that is now officially paid off!!!
Or is that Key Arena bond gonna stay on the books for eternity???
My disappointment knows no bounds. I won’t go there today.
During my lifetime there was one instance when this city came together in an spontaneous outpouring of joy and celebration unlike anything I had experienced before or since – the Sonics parade following the 1979 championship. The only experience remotely like it, the other time I recall our city coming together, was following 9/11, in Westlake Mall. One was a celebration of life, the other allowed us to share a staggering grief. I’ll never forget either one.
That’s all I’m going to say about it other than I love my city, Seattle, and that this is a very sad day for many of its citizens.
another good look at how this turned out:
http://www.eternalprey.com
36 For crying out loud, Hannah…we’re still paying off the ever-loving bonds on the Kingdome, and it doesn’t even exist anymore.
By the way…great to have you back.
I think I might be guilty of a generalization about Oklahomans…I can remember not too many years ago hearing my wife’s relatives from Boston’s North Shore talking about how they never took the subway because “there’s a lot of daaaahkies in there”–and all of them are no doubt joined in the celebration of their team winning the championship.
Then again, perhaps that’s what the team name is all about–they’ve declared them all to be Irish!
re 36: I would say that Republican warmongers are bigger tax and debt lovers than we are.
What do you think of that, Hannah the tax and debt loving Death Merchant?
So if the Sonics had more white players they would have stayed in Seattle? Would they need an Asian player as well?
re 37: Richard Pope’s point is not ‘well taken’ just on your say-so. And the points you do bring up are irrelevant to the argument. I challenge you to present evidence that any of your assertions are anything more than that: unsupported assertions.
The players you mention were all great — in their time. Most could not survive on today’s basketball court because the game constantly changes — evolves — as it were, to the contrary, notwithstanding. The game did not spring forth from the mind of the great Coach in the Sky and remain unchanged.
Would a Havlicek lean-in jump-shot score against a Shaq O’Neill block. Think about it. There’s more to the game than your old-man bitching about the good old days.
re 42: Good points you bring up — with nary a number to hide behind. Good for you!
@51 Headless spews: “What do you think of that, Hannah the tax and debt loving Death Merchant?”
So you think it’s ok for the city to continue the tax for a bond that has, as of yesterday, been paid in full? So a 10 year tax bond can go on for a 100 years and people shouldn’t speak up? If the cost of a bond was $100 mill and as of today the tax payers had paid $55 mill and still owe $45 but someone comes along and pays off the bond (due to a lawsuit to force that to happen) you feel the tax payers should continue to pay of the remaining $45 mill that was just paid? So where does it ever end? Has anyone in their lifetime ever seen a “10” or “20” year bond tax actually drop off after said 10 or 20 years?
Art Fart – thanks! won’t be on much just pissed about the sonics and needed a place to vent! I have been too busy with fun stuff now that it is the summer months to spend behind my computer.
55 “I have been too busy with fun stuff now that it is the summer months to spend behind my computer.”
That’s the most sane thing I’ve read hereabouts in a long time!
re 45: Let me make this simpler for you Richard Pope:
Q- Do you agree that the majority of people in both Seattle and OKC are white?
A- R. Pope’s: “Yes, headless. Of course you are correct.”
Q- “Do you agree that the white people in OKC are generally more ignorant, right-wing, intolerant, and racist Bible thumpers?”
A- R. Pope: “You are right on the money again, headless!”
Conclusion: “Then, if the majority of the people in OKC will predictably not support an NBA team, then the racial diversity of the minority of the people in OKC is a moot point.”
re 55: No. My objection was your blanket labeling of liberals as ‘tax lovers’.
It’s a given that I comprehend your simplistic point about taxes, but you fail to see that I am calling you a mindless, pigeon-holing labeler.
re 52: Have you considered therapy or tutoring to overcome your obtuseness?
Where in this comment:
http://www.horsesass.org/?p=5125#comment-790287
was I “blanket labeling of liberals as ‘tax lovers’”?????????????????????????????????????
I never once referred to liberals! Idiot! I referred to jack ass Nickels and his “roll over and play dead dog” game yesterday. He got the city’s money back, my question was, will we finally see that tax go away now that it has been paid in full? I would ask the same question to a “republican” if there were one in office…has nothing to do with party!
@56 – Art…sanity is one of the big reasons I don’t come around these parts anymore. I was beginning to feel the hatred rubbing off on me and I refuse to live my life hating people just because they belong to a political party. Too many friends and family are reps and I respect their ideas. Being here, I started questioning if I was one of these hateful people and hope I never showed that to my rep frinds and family…I had to get back to “sane” democrats who can have an actual debate without the nastiness.
But the ridiculous roll over by the City of Seattle, got my blood boiling and I needed to vent in a place where I felt people would understand and appreciate! :)
re 60: “…Been staying away from here for quite some time, but now I have a question for all the tax lovers here:”
What else could you possibly have meant? That you were only addressing ‘tax lovers’?
re 61: Hannah, you are a CONCERN TROLL. You are just one in a stable of many comment-trolls used by a few right wing nuts on this blog.
You think you have ArtFart’s sympathy, so you are playing on it for all it’s worth.
You even have the Republican trait of blaming your own hate on liberals. They were “rubbing off” on you and ‘making’ you hateful.
Riiiiight…
61 There does seem to be something odd about the way this ended up. Not that “back-channel” negotiations aren’t completely unheard of in a civil trial. It sure looks like the city must have learned something to convince them that they were going to lose, and then Nickels would have been left to explain how the city was being stuck with millions in court costs and both sides’ legal fees in addition to losing the franchise and getting no compensation.
Be it noted, if Nickels hopes that this move will save his political arse, he’s likely to be sorely mistaken.
And yeah…the level of invective here tends to be really tiresome, particularly when you see people on both sides posting the same screeds over and over again. Some of us tend to take ourselves far too seriously.
63 Beg your pardon, Lucy, but I’ll express my sympathies as I see fit. If I need your help I’ll ask for it.
re 64: Some of us tend to take ourselves far too seriously.
But you would never be guilty of that. You are a shining example to us all.
re 65: I’m not trying to help you. I’m just trying to convince you to mind your own business.
I made a reference to a blanket referral that the CONCERN TROLL, Hannah made criticizing all liberals as tax-lovers — which the CONCERN TROLL known as Hannah subsequently denied. I referenced the source of her comment, but in the meantime YOU had interjected yourself as a sympathetic mediator to the CONCERN TROLL known as Hannah.
So don’t act as if I have interjected myself into your private communication, when it was you who did that to me.
Important? Maybe not. But you have certainly spent a bit of time trying to defend your own joining-in with the finger-pointing started by the CONCERN TROLL known as Hannah.
The green eyed monster raises it’s ugly head.
re 68: I’ve never seen you quite so self-aware.
So once again you are so myopic you can’t see it in yourself?
All I have left in my bile duct over this is two things:
1.) As despicable as this whole sordid affair was, the CYA exercises done by by all parties involved (political and non-political) were pathetic attempts to pass the buck and proclaim, “Hey, I tried to stop it.” Disgusting.
2.) Whoever opened up http://www.fuckyouclaybennett.com is my new hero. But I rather would’ve abandoned Clayboy to his fate at a leather bar in San Francisco wearing nothing but a red ribbon with a tub of Vaseline tied to it. Then sent the tape of that night’s festivites to his gay-bashing partners with a note reading, “You’re next.”
Yeah, but we have other sports teams that win championships/play in the finals/final four/etc.
Headless Lucy @ 57
You make the assumption that White people will not be interested in professional basketball (a sport in which the large majority of players are Black) if they are intolerant of Black people. You assume that White people in Oklahoma City are intolerant of Black people, and therefore will not support professional basketball.
However, the New Orleans Hornets played in Oklahoma City during the 2005-06 and 2006-07 seasons, due to the facilities in New Orleans being destroyed by Hurricane Katrina. The OKC Hornets attendance was considerably higher than either the Seattle Sonics attendance for those years, or the NO Hornets attendance for the immediately preceding or subsequent years.
These numbers are average per game home attendance, followed by total season home attendance:
2005-06 OKC Hornets 744,920 18,168
2006-07 OKC Hornets 731,065 17,830
2005-06 Seattle Sonics 664,157 16,198
2006-07 Seattle Sonics 654,163 15,955
2004-05 NO Hornets 583,070 14,221
2007-08 NO Hornets 547,556 13,355
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/attendance?year=2008
P.S.: You may be correct that White people in OKC are less tolerant of Black people, but if this is the case, the conclusion that White intolerance leads to reduced support of professional basketball is totally incorrect.
As for foolish statistics from the US Census (and from 2006, not 2000):
OK County
White 74.6%
Black 15.6%
Native American 3.4%
Asian 3.4%
King County
White 75.8%
Black 6.1%
Native American 0.9%
Asian 13.3%
Looks fairly equivalent to me. My favorite statistic though is percentage of college graduates:
Oklahoma county 25.4%
King county 40.0%
Tolerance and racial understanding correlate very well with education. That is why most people of color would prefer the Northwest to Oklahoma, not the absolute number of people of one particular race…
Nothing but nothing compares to my sport!
re 73: Good point, Richard Pope. And I’m glad to see that you have no numbers that support it. (That’s a joke, son.)
re 74: But Dan is the real genius here. His numbers actually support his contention.
Me? I’m just an old fisherman. If the flies ain’t workin’, worms are always a good trick!
Dan @ 74
Also, the greater Oklahoma City area — let’s say within a 60 to 90 minute drive from the arena — has only about 1/3 of the population of the greater Seattle area. A much smaller population base, but a higher number of people who actually attend home basketball games.
The greater New Orleans area is also much smaller than the greater Seattle area — maybe 40% of our population. But almost as many people attend professional basketball in New Orleans, as in Seattle. (And I assume New Orleans is probably fairly low in the number of college graduates as well.)
I think the education level may be the most highly correlated statistic here. The less formal education that someone has, the more likely they are to attend professional basketball. The Seattle area has probably five times the number of college graduates in absolute numbers than Oklahoma City — and this is obviously NOT the demographic that likes to attend professional basketball.
The Sonics players may enjoy the high level of cultural sophistication in the Seattle area. (More likely, they prefer hanging out at the DUI bars in Kirkland, and trying to pick up single women.) But cultural sophisticates don’t appear to care very much to attend their games.
Richard: I think the most telling statistic is the high population of poorly educated lesbians in Seattle. This explains the demographic success of the Storm. The failure of the Sonics is easily explained by the predominance of highly educated male, liberal-wussies in Seattle. The relative abundance of uneducated, drunken, Bible-thumpin’, Jenny humpin’ male ‘tards in OKC and Louisiana all but guarantees the success of NBA basketball in those markets.
I wonder if Darryl could apply his Monte Carlo technique to my theory and see how many times I would be correct against your theory?
My guess is thousands…. Many thousands.
78. Richard Pope spews:
think the education level may be the most highly correlated statistic here. The less formal education that someone has, the more likely they are to attend professional basketball. The Seattle area has probably five times the number of college graduates in absolute numbers than Oklahoma City — and this is obviously NOT the demographic that likes to attend professional basketball.
The Sonics players may enjoy the high level of cultural sophistication in the Seattle area. (More likely, they prefer hanging out at the DUI bars in Kirkland, and trying to pick up single women.) But cultural sophisticates don’t appear to care very much to attend their games
this has got to be the stupiest thing I have read on the sonics to date.
With the execption of Oklahoma Sooners Basketball and Football the Hornets NBA games were the only competition in town for their entertainment dollars.
We have the Seahawks, Mariners, and Huskies. When a team isn’t winning here we don’t support them. a bad team is NOT ENTERTAINING to those of us who have been Sonic fans the entire 41 years.
In OKC they got discounted tickets to the Hornet games to help “prove” to the NBA what a great NBA city it could be. They made their point. (I wonder how long it will be before the actual price of a game ticket will drive those fans away)
To correlate those attendance totals into some educated vs. uneducate argument has no basis in fact. Based on the data you provided I could argue that the OKC residents are more intelligent than people in our area because they won’t spend $125 on a seat that isn’t courtside. Both arguments could be right based on the statistics.
As Penn and Teller would say (well actually only Penn says it) Statistics are BULLSHIT. and you just proved their point.