Former state Republican Party Chair Chris Vance, has a somewhat startling admission to make:
I have spent the bulk of my career opposing higher taxes and increased spending. In the Legislature I voted against Governor Mike Lowry’s 1993 budget and tax increases. On the King County Council I voted against two budgets because they increased spending and raised property taxes — budgets written by my fellow Republicans while we were in the majority. During all of my 11 years in elected office I served on the budget writing committee, and every year I listened to Democratic governors and county executives talk about tight budgets, while revenues and spending went up and up.
As a fiscal conservative, therefore, I hope I can say this with some credibility: King County really does have a revenue problem. In fact, it is closer to a revenue crisis.
See, when I lay out the facts behind the counties’ structural revenue deficit (and it’s not just King County, but all counties), there are those who dismiss me as just the Horses’s Ass guy. But here’s Vance, a lifelong Republican and self-described fiscal conservative, pretty much making the same exact case.
Huh.
The seeds of the local government funding crisis were sown by the Legislature’s repeal of the car tab tax. Although this was an awful tax, it was a major source of municipal revenues, and Washington’s cities and counties have struggled ever since.
Revenues from the sales tax, another regressive tax that hits lower-income people the hardest, are down because of the recession.
So — what tax(es) does Vance think should be raised to deal with King County’s fiscal crisis?
While I support adequate funding for public services, I’ve long maintained we can’t accomplish that by continuing to load more taxes on the backs of those least able to pay. It’s simply not a solution to raise property taxes on young families struggling to meet their bills, to raise sales taxes on the unemployed and elderly on fixed incomes, or to raise other existing regressive taxes on people struggling to survive this brutal recession.
We need comprehensive tax reform in Washington State. Unfortunately, our state’s gutless political leadership refuses to even talk about the issues of tax inequity, maldistribution of tax burdens, and the fact big business and the affluent are getting a free ride.
Take that Suzie!
Maybe if we release prisoners in Bellevue those folks will finally be willing to ante up.
“The auditor’s report estimates that cost overruns could be $21 million to $71 million higher. According to the report, the county is counting on a $40 million state sales-tax exemption on machinery and materials used in the production of biosolids and reclaimed wastewater for irrigation.
The project’s $1.8 billion price is already double what the project was estimated to cost when it was first proposed. Former King County Executive pushed through sewer rate increases last year to help defray the project’s increased costs.
Both the state Revenue Department and an administrative law judge, however, have ruled the county is not entitled to the exemption. Sreibers said the county received the exemption for materials at its treatment plants in Seattle and Renton”
http://www.seattlepi.com/local.....ter21.html
So we have a revenue problem…..
And what if this project were on budget?
This is one example that took .05 seconds to find. How many more are there????
King County will actually spend close to $5 billion next year, but the overwhelming majority of that revenue is legally dedicated to specific programs, such as transit, waste water, unincorporated roads, and solid waste.
SOME of the revenues now allocated to transit, waste water, etc. are “legally dedicated” to those KingCo Divisions, but not all. Correct?
@4
But, that project isn’t on budget and the county is on the hook for the overrun. So yeah, King County has a revenue problem.
Either laying people off or hiring more or raising taxes should be put on hold until the “processes” of government and out dated laws are management audited, re-analyzed and re-evaluated to determine their purpose and benefits. One example as a start? Privatize the liquor control bureaucracy and go from there.
Here is John Carlson’s insightful comment on Crosscut–
— John Carlson
Precisely John.
The ONLY way to really reform government is to take away the money.
Chris Vance is now a CONSULTANT.
He was a horrible money manager for the State Republican Party.
Who is Chris working for now???
Googled “Chris Vance” “Washington” and could only find that he claims to be a POLITICAL CONSULTANT. A year ago, Vance was a REPUBLICAN POLITICAL CONSULTANT.
A reasonable person would ask “why the change”?
I see nowhere a list of Vance’s clients.
A reasonable person might ask him to provide that list so readers could see who is paying him.
Nothing would surprise me about Chris Vance.
So who are your clients Chris??
Please tell us.
@7 “Privatize the liquor control bureaucracy and go from there.”
The state makes money from liquor sales, so obviously you’re a proponent of either higher taxes or less public services or both.
The wingnut solution to everything is “privatize,” and privatize never works.
To John Carlson–
It is an awesome task to dismantled the bloated Bureaucracy’s of Washington State, King Kounty and Seattle…mainly because of the Union. It will take courageous leaders willing to stand up to the onslaught like Tim Eyman and guys like you have received.
The Goldsteinesque SOB stories and allegations of HATE, HATE, HATE will come for any reform candidate.
Frankly, I believe folks on the Left are incapable of seeing the undesirable consequences of their Bigger Government/Higher Taxes ideology. You cannot reason with them…or show them.
They apparently need to actually see and feel the consequences.
Keep taking away the money.
The less there is, the more they squeal…but eventually needed reform will happen.
@4
And that project is entirely funded out of charges for wastewater services. Even if it was on-budget it wouldn’t help the general fund.
@5
Actually I’m fairly sure transit, wastewater, and solid waste are funded entirely from dedicated sources. There is no general fund subsidy to these services.
@7
and that would help the county how?
@12
Did you even read the article?
3/4 of the county general fund goes to police, jails, courts, and prosecutors. Surely you don’t think we should be cutting pay or positions in any of these areas? After all you want quality competent people doing these jobs not reject mall cops and graduates from mail-order law schools.
This has consequences, it means not enough cops keeping the public safe from criminals. It means not prosecuting criminals even when they are caught because there simply aren’t enough prosecutors or courts. It means not sending criminals to jail because there simply aren’t beds for them. It means putting guards at the jails at risk because they are supervising too many prisoners. It means long waits for court dates for basic business matters like collections, foreclosure, or contract disputes.
Chris–
Have you ever taken a look at the Salary, Overtime and Benefits Public Safety employees get? You really ought to.
Yes, I believe the focus of government at all levels ought to be Public Safety/Defense and Infrastructure. That’s it.
And yes, I did look at the article.
But the misleading part is that there are many other so called “dedicated funds” where tax dollars get filtered to.
It’s like a Where’s Waldo puzzle trying to untangle the intracacies. I’ve tried.
Have you??
@17
So you’re saying public safety employees are overcompensated? You’re saying we shouldn’t try to find the best people we can and should try to hire the cheapest workers instead?
As for the rest, what part of “dedicated funds” are you having trouble understanding? The transit tax can’t be spent funding the courts, the road funds can’t fund the prosecutors office, solid waste fees can’t fund the jail, sewage fees can’t fund the sheriff’s office. Conversely transit, sewers, garbage, and roads aren’t getting money out of the general fund either.
Oh BTW as a fun little factoid:
If unincorporated King County were a city it would be the second largest in the state. Once you subtract our the areas the county is trying to get cities to annex it would still be the 4th largest city in the state.
According to the county, my house is now assessed at 20% less than last year.
That’s a huge hit to the revenue.
Mr. Cynical: The main vulnerability to cuts in the general fund lies in human services. That is, trying to keep humans alive, fed, and reasonably healthy. Those humans include children.
Do you support making those cuts? If no new revenue is raised, that’s what will have to happen. Do you want to hear kids “squeal” when they don’t have food or medicine? Do you think that will be good progress toward a leaner government?
Cynical @ 12
Why are conservative welfare recipients always against taxes?
“…John Carlson’s insightful comment …”
Sorry, everytime I try to read the rest of that comment, I find myself laughing so hard at this opening statement, that I am unable to continue.
If the dumbass bastard who calls himself “Mr. Cynical” actually lived here…
…he would know who Chris Vance is.
Finally. Yay.
Cynical…looks like you’re done here.
Here are a few stats…
Federal civilian wages averaged $79,197 in 2008, more than 50% greater than that of the average private sector employee’s wages of $49,935.
Pay in the public sector climbed 53.7% from 2000 to 2008 for federal civilian workers while wages in the private sector rose just 28.5% over the same time period.
The U.S. government issued employee bonuses of some $370 million last year.
The average state and local government employee earns 29% more than the average private sector employee.
When wages and benefits are combined, federal civilian workers averaged $119,982 in 2008, twice the amount of $59,909 which workers in the private sector averaged for wages/benefits.
The value of benefits for federal civilian workers averaged $40,000/year, four times the value of benefits that the average private sector employee receives.
[Deleted — see HA Comment Policy]
@17
We’ve been through this drill before and we found that state employees total compensation package wasn’t that much better than mine in the nonprofit sector.
Hey Stamn – Where is the evidence for those claims?
I went to the link and it has no citations….any real research needs citations. But I guess you didn’t know that…having not finished the third grade.
I did find this though:
Link: http://www.allacademic.com//me.....2897-2.php
So much for bogus research, with no citations on a biased cite.
Come back and play when you grow up, Stamn.
Still waiting on the republican health care plan…..are you too chicken to put it up, or are you too dense to find it?
One minor clarification:
Like any “journalist,” I wrote the piece, but not the headline. The Crosscut headline says we need “higher taxes.” Not exactly what I said. I suggested that a new funding model was needed for large urban counties. That model could include higher taxes, or it could consist of letting King County keep a larger share of the sales, property, or B&O taxes generated in King County, rather than raising taxes.
The point is, the county is running out of revenue to fund basic criminal justice services. This is a structural problem that needs to be addressed.
Jason @19
I’m pretty sure that you’re property tax doesn’t go down just because your assessment went down. But then, your taxes don’t go up either, just because your assessment went up.
#30 Emily,
You are correct. The taxes CAN go up however even with the assessment going down.
@28 “the republican health care plan”
Plan? Demonize progressives, lawyers, immigrants and poor people.
@24
Again Marvin the moron, are you suggesting police officers, jail guards, judges, and prosecutors (firefighters too!) are overcompensated? You’re saying we should cut their compensation? I’m sure that will go over real well with the public, second only to kicking puppies. After all even the extreme anti-government types claim these are essential public services. One would think we’d want the best and the brightest doing them. Any good free marketer knows you get what you pay for so one would expect the total compensation package for workers in public safety to be relatively good especially given either the danger of the job (police, jail guards, firefighters) or the potential higher earnings in the private sector (prosecutors, judges)
Apparently conservatives are fine with subjecting public safety to the same cheap-labor policies they favor elsewhere. Good luck with that when you find you are scraping the bottom of the barrel to find cops, jail guards, firefighters, judges, and prosecutors.
@12 Mr C
12. Mr. Cynical spews:
Chris @29,
Yes Chris, you’re arguing for more revenue, not necessarily higher taxes, though it’s hard to see the former coming without the latter, as the state isn’t exactly rolling in dough either.
But I think the most important point you make is that the county is suffering from a structural revenue deficit, something that the likes of Susan Hutchison and say, the Seattle Times editorial board refuse to admit.
Welcome to the reality-based community.
Jason @19,
Actually, that’s not the way property taxes work. The taxing district (in this case the county) levies a dollar amount, and then assessor establishes the rate so as to collect that amount. So your lower assessment doesn’t actually lower revenues unless the district is already up against its statutory limit, and after years of I-747, I don’t believe there’s a taxing district in the state anywhere near there. Rather, you end up with a higher tax rate producing the same bill. (Assuming, your property value declined proportionate to the rest of the district.)
The real hit on property tax revenues comes from the decline in new construction, which not only adds more value to the rolls, but which is exempt from I-747’s 1% limit on revenue increases.
David,
Numbers and facts are stubborn things.
Now, shall we discuss Obama’s numerical fantasies?
http://crosscut.com/2009/03/04.....ent/18878/
Emily @ 30, Goldy @ 36
Thanks for the corrections.
Marvin @ 24
That website is remarkably free of citations.
I usually don’t get worked up about works of fiction, though I admit I’m a sucker for love stories.
well, OF COURSE he does. That’s what conservatives like Cynical are all about. If it’s not HIS kids, he’s fine with it. Geeze, why do you THINK liberals detest people like Cynical?
As cities annex they probably do not want to give up revenue to the county. And as mentioned by Goldy, the state is not rolling in it.
The options are limited, Chris.
Cities contract with the county for services, raising rates for those services has the problem pushed down to the local level with even fewer options.
At some point the City of King County has to push responsibilities back to the cities, even if cities share efforts.
X’ad–
As usual, you are generous with OTHER PEOPLE’s MONEY.
Typical Leftist.
Good Riddance.
Kids in Phillipines beware of this guy!
It still surprises me the myth that somehow police and fire can do no wrong and untouchable. Truth is they’re VERY WELL compensated with a combination of salary and benefits. And they have a powerful lobby in the state that puts up roadblocks to be able to cut and make efficiency improvements.
They’re 3/4 of the budget and haven’t been REALLY looked at for any cost savings.
I hope King County, other counties, and the state look to this huge expense to see if it can be cut any.
Sherriff Sue says 6% budget cuts will result in a 75% cut to coverage in high crime areas
http://www.seattlepi.com/local.....get30.html
SHe wears a uniform so it must be true.
Chris Vance @ 37
Against my better judgment, I followed your link.
Your thesis isn’t even good enough to criticize.
Could you offer just one reform idea? One idea for cutting costs? One policy that would improve governance?
I will offer the following, both related to healthcare, the second one my very own.
You’re concerned about healthcare costs. Restore Medicare’s ability to negotiate drug prices. Let the market work its magic and set a fair price. Easy change. Save billions of dollars. Completely non-controversial.
You’re concerned about the cost of malpractice insurance. Establish a “healthcare court”. Doctors would be judged based on what was known at the time of treatment, including the patient’s prognosis and current standards of care. The deciding panel would include medical experts representing both doctors and patients. Healthcare court would eliminate unpredictable juries, expensive court cases, and ensure justice for both doctors and patients.
As clearly shown above thread, I know nothing about our current state taxes. But I’m sure others here would be more than happy to engage you, to engage in that debate you so yearn.
So. Let’s have it.
What’s your signature idea for reforming our state and county revenue and spending structures?
You know our tax reform ideas (state income tax, toss out B&O, reasonable property taxes, etc.). What are your ideas?
Jason–
You have been given Conservative ideas repeatedly….
Seems like you are playing the typical LEFTIST PINHEADED KLOWN game of pretending not to hear. That gets mighty old pal.
On Health Care, I have repeatedly given you the Price-Waterhouse-Coopers Study.
Here it is again–
The Price-Waterhouse-Coopers Study shows 50% waste in the current system and where it is.
Here are the key findings:
And here is the link–
http://www.pwc.com/us/en/healt.....cess.jhtml
Regarding State & Local Government…the answer is to eliminate everything but INFRASTRUCTURE and PUBLIC SAFETY.
Also, all Government Unions should be eliminate and Washington becomes a right to work state for Government employees.
Consolidate School Districts and ESD’s.
Eliminiate the Superintendent of Public Instruction.
Cut the Governor’s Office Budget in half.
The list goes on & on Jason.
I expect you will continue the game of “what are your ideas”——-because you do not like my ideas.
Cynical @ 46
Hot tip: You’re not Chris Vance. (Or are you? Hmmm.)
re: PWC report
There are no points awarded for stating the obvious. The cause is profiting from disease and death. What’s the fix? The proven correct answer is universal healthcare and single payer, which creates a system focused on welness, profiting from good health.
What’s your actionable idea?
re: State & Local Government
Make a list. I’d be humored to learn what programs you’d cut. Get a copy of any budget and mark it up.
re: Consolidate School Districts
Ok. That’s an actual idea.
Though I’m surprised that a libertarian would suggest a system that would reduce competition and parental choice. Maybe a Stalinist top down big government solution is more effective. I’d want to see some hard data.
@43
I don’t doubt there is waste in public safety. But I do find it ironic that the same people who kept throwing more money in that direction and who screamed anytime cuts were proposed are now the ones claiming we should cut waste and cut pay.
It’s also fun to see them beat up on public safety unions who over the years have been some of the few unions willing to endorse conservatives on a regular basis.
Tort Reform capping Judgments against Docs, Drug Companies, Hospitals etc. Will not only eliminiate legal fees and excess judgments…but free Medical Providers to eliminate unnecessary testing & procedures not done in other Country’s you hold up…because they don’t have an onerous Tort System like ours.
Health Care Reform with Tort Reform is purely politics at it’s worst.
Jason, are you afraid of pissing off the Democrats big benefactor called the Trial Attorneys??
Why are you against Tort Reform.
Why do you insist on ignoring the high cost of DEFENSIVE Medicine as indicated in the PWC Report??
RE: Government only Infrastructure & Public Safety/Defense—
What don’t you understand about ONLY Jason?
Let me explain it…
It means get rid of everything else!
@48
I guess I haven’t seen public safety unions (principally fire and police) support a candidate because of any liberal/conservative or R/D ideology. I’ve only seen them support a candidate because they promise a fat raise far in excess governments can sustain with the current tax structure or concession to further entrench their position at the bargaining table as a sacred cow.
Union’s strength come at the expense of more discretionary things like libraries, parks, road maintenance, snow removal, and the dozens of other services jurisdictions provide. If cops and firefighters are 3/4 of the budget….it can easily come to a point that you cut everything but fire and safety to balance a budget.
I just wonder if the public really wants that choice.
-Annex all remaining Urban areas (they are)
-Get help from Olympia regarding unfunded mandates
-For pity sakes, plow revenues which exceed forecasts into reserves for down times (now). I’ve heard the county spent and spent and spent when sales tax and REET revenues were white hot in 05-06 rather than saving them for, well, this economic toilet bowl. Tsk tsk.
Oh, and your property taxes won’t go down if your AV decreases. They just up the mil rate. Sorry.
Cynical @ 49
re: tort reform
You don’t define tort reform. Just another wedge issue that sounds good as a sound bite.
I’m pretty sure you haven’t thought this through. Having seen numerous examples of your writing, it’s clear that we’re not investing enough in public education.
Here’s the 2010 King County Budget.
What would you cut? Records, licensing, and elections don’t meet your criteria. Under your plan, people don’t get to vote, we no longer can prove we own our homes, and no one keeps track of births, marriages, and deaths.
Yup. That’s a pretty good plan. I’m sure it’ll be an easy sale to the citizens of King County. (Where do you live again?)
Exactly everything else in that budget is directly related to infrastructure or public safety.
Seeing how your current thesis doesn’t hold water, is there another strategy? Obviously, you can’t cut departments or programs.
Would changes in policies yield savings, better governance, or revenue generation?
I know critical thinking is tough work, so I’ll give you a freebie:
Eliminate the War on Drugs
That one is popular with the libertarians and us liberals mostly agree. So, can we do this?
See, I think this is a useful exercise. You anti-government types just don’t think things through. If you had, you’d be offering some actionable, constructive criticisms, and not just empty slogans.
You know how to reach me if you ever come up with an original idea. Happy hunting.