Other people have written more elegantly about last night’s election than I will. But I would like to tell a little story about the I-594 victory party: The results had already come in and the mood was pretty good. People mulled around a bit before a round of speechifying.
At some point in that time they played a video montage of various points in the campaign. Probably the toughest was Gabby Giffords’ testimony before the legislature. As it was playing I looked around the crowd and saw several people embrace. Maybe I’m wrong, but it sure looked more like holding one another up embraces than victory embraces. At that moment, I thought of how many people in that room were there because of gun violence. How many people this was personal for.
On top of the fact that this will make policy a bit better in the state, I think the win was good for the people in the room in a more personal way. That’s probably not the best reason to make laws, but I was glad to be a part of that.
Apparently, Pam Roach is going to replace Erik Smith on the Seattle Times editorial board. WTF.
All Washingtonians should be proud of what we accomplished with the I-594 victory and the I-591 defeat.
It was historic.
It is transcendent.
And it was not easy to come to the point to decide to devote one’s life to moving the ball only a small yard forward to prevent one more death; a prevention no one can ever really know occurred.
We fought the good fight and won. The feeling is one of relief, not victory.
We’ve survived and surmounted the feeling of helplessness.
… a prevention no one can ever really know occurred.
That’s really well put. While the statistics clearly show that background checks correlate to fewer murders, those are by definition aggregate figures. We’ll never know just which crimes were never committed as a result of I-594. I’m just glad we now can expect fewer armed robberies on Capitol Hill.
While the proponents of I-594 should take credit for their hard work, let’s remember the Sugar Daddy factor: I-594 had a lot of local money behind it. This neutralized the cash advantage the NRA usually brings to a fight. This might have been an even tougher fight had the NRA done more than produce just one misleading TV ad.
And it was not easy to come to the point to decide to devote one’s life to moving the ball only a small yard forward to prevent one more death; a prevention no one can ever really know occurred.
Dude. “transcendent.”? You need a life … or less dope.
Let’s remember that the next time a CRIMINAL who doesn’t obey your 18 pages of gobbledygook commits a violent crime with his gun … or his knife… or his hatchet… or his molotov cocktail (nod to Ferguson) … or his car… or his FISTS.
Be sure to post some pictures of all those criminals lining up for their background checks and fingerprinting.
… a prevention no one can ever really know occurred.
Of course that never happens when it’s a CRIME that’s prevented by a gun owner or CWP carrier …. nah, just never.
No one will be saved by 594.
@4,
Let me state this succinctly so that you may understand.
Fuck off and die you useless good for nothing piece of shit dumb ass low life loser
LOL! Hit a nerve, did I?
Sing along with me:
“But I see your true colors
Shining through
I see your true colors
So don’t be afraid to let them show
Your true colors
True colors”
Read more: Cyndi Lauper – True Colors Lyrics | MetroLyrics
Be sure to post some pictures of all those criminals lining up for their background checks and fingerprinting.
@8 Better yet, let’s see how many of the “old regulars” don’t show up at the next gun show.
Will the mentally ill person who broke into his grandpa’s, mother’s, friend’s, uncle’s, neighbor’s gun cupboard intent on harming others and himself who has now hesitated because he did not register the transfer of the gun he stole please stand up?
Will the child who found daddy’s weapon but did not register the “transfer” and have a background check before playing with it please raise your hand?
Permanent Majority????
That was an always wrong wing fantasy:
http://campaignstops.blogs.nyt.....-majority/
@9,
Ever been to a gun show FartyArt? Naaaaah? Puddy thought so! Rules.. https://washingtonarmscollectors.org/about-us/how-we-do-things/rules-of-the-road/
So much for the WAC gun shows eh FartyArt?
So libtards what happens if the gun comes from out-of-state as a Saturday night special? Or it’s reported stolen in-state or out-of-state?
Yep I-594 will really work then.
@6 Too bad, we hardly knew ye.
@12 Self regulation? When did that ever work?
@11 Yeah, some Republican nut was talking yesterday about a 100-year GOP House majority. If Congress adopts the GOP’s climate policy, chances are Republicans won’t even exist 100 years from now.
Of course that never happens when it’s a CRIME that’s prevented by a gun owner or CWP carrier …. nah, just never.
Massacres committed with guns happen all of the time in this country. The prevention of a crime with a gun is almost never reported, despite it being a very commonly asserted claim by Gunfondler Nation. Put up or shut up, pal.
(Let’s recall this is in context of a law requiring background checks for firearms purchasers. The idea that a person who failed such a check is a would-be hero, eagerly awaiting his chance to prevent a crime, just adds to the hilarity.)
Let’s remember that the next time a CRIMINAL who doesn’t obey your 18 pages of gobbledygook…
It would be the provider of the gun who was not obeying I-594, the law enacted by the will of the voters of the state of Washington, who would be the CRIMINAL in this circumstance.
… commits a violent crime with his gun … or his knife… or his hatchet… or his molotov cocktail (nod to Ferguson) … or his car… or his FISTS.
Don’t know much about how Americans commit murder, do you? Here’s the FBI statistics on murders from 2008-2012. Note the following:
1) The overwhelming majority of American homicides employed firearms;
2) The overwhelming majority of firearms used were handguns;
3) At least half of all murders committed in America in 2012 were committed with handguns.
Note also that the murder rate declined nationwide over that period. One exception? Missouri, where in 2007 the state law requiring background checks for handgun purchases was rescinded. The murder rate there rose dramatically in 2008.
… 18 pages of gobbledygook…
(Reading sure is hard for you, isn’t it?) Here’s a tip for you. In the previous thread, you showed your grasp of basic American constitutional law by asserting (1) the Senate’s duty to advise and consent extends to anything the House sends, and (2) the Congress has “overturn[ed]” state initiatives. If you want anyone to believe anything you say about laws, you might first want to show a basic understanding of our constitution. Just sayin’.
Puddy been putting up the links for a long time tensor. Ask the monomaniacal moronic moonbat for the links.
Go on, Puddy dares ya!
The reason why crime prevention by a gu never gets any slobbering libtard MSM time is that it goes against the libtard narrative of gun control. Butt there are many sites that cover these crazed lunatic attempts at robbery, larceny, and general mayhem!
Puddy been putting up the links for a long time tensor.
It will be most interesting to compare whatever you throw up here to the FBI murder statistics I’ve already cited. Wanna bet there will be about one thousand confirmed murders per every claim of self-defense?
Put up or shut up, pal.
[Deleted — Note that this is not an open thread]
Will the child who found daddy’s weapon but did not register the “transfer” and have a background check before playing with it please raise your hand?
Mr. Charles Darwin will not be denied. :-0
If your argument about I-594 says that it does not go far enough, then please petition your representatives in our legislature to extend it.
Well since you asked tensor…
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/ar.....-deterrent
http://takingnote.blogs.nytime.....-use/?_r=0
NY Times says “That comes to an annual average of 67,740” per year so by tensor math that would be 67,740,000 homicides per year tensor.
http://www.usnews.com/news/art.....r-injuries
EPIC FAYLE!
No fried chicken for you http://www.snopes.com/politics.....hicken.asp
[Deleted]
Puddybore needs to learn to read his own links:
… almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals,
Nothing said there about the *efficacy* of those “indicat[ed]” uses. We know there are thousands of murders with just handguns every year. We have still no idea how many of those “defensive uses” were as effective as murder.
Also, your link which purports to cite the CDC does no such thing. Puddy fail!
But, thanks for this quote, Prettybland:
“Most felons report obtaining the majority of their firearms from informal sources,” adds the report, while “stolen guns account for only a small percentage of guns used by convicted criminals.”
Hm… “informal sources” — would those be gun shows?
And it looks like you’ve refuted all of the yammering about how a CRIMINAL will always get a gun illegally.
Thanks, puddinghead!
tensor, the vector into nothingness,
Doesn’t matter what your petty commentary sez above. There isn’t 67,000,000 homicides by guns every year as you screamed earlier.
Not at a WAC gun show you moron! That’s what you were yammering about with I-594. The WAC performs background checks on every gun purchase. Informal sources are other locations usually in those libtard controlled bastions called cities!
You are more stoooooooooooopid than the monomaniacal moronic moobat and rujaxoffallthetimebuttnothinappears combined!
Puddy Success!
The rest of your rant is just worthless blather… Kinda like what we see everyday on PMSNBC! Butt keep yammering!
EPIC FAYLE!
“If your argument about I-594 says that it does not go far enough, then please petition your representatives in our legislature to extend it.”
Sigh! If only we could legislate away the stupidity of wingnuts. Or in Puddy’s case, the crazy.
Puddy! How ya doing?
Looks like much of America legislated away libtard DUMMOCRETIN wimens and libtard thought from the House and Senate!
Puddy doing find Steve!
2010: 13 people out of 76,000. “So, if your a bad guy, why not give it a shot and see what happens?”
Keep the pictures and video’s of all those criminals, mentally ill and children lining up for their background checks and fingerprinting coming!
Meanwhile we see how Jon Stewart loves to rail on rich Republicans… except he’s a rich DUMMOCRETIN! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new.....id-it.html
What? Nooooooooooo special tax benefits? When you are a cockroach, the sanitizing light will eventually shine upon you!
Wow! That’s amazing!
Hey monomaniacal moronic moonbat… http://www.washingtonexaminer......le/2555721
Yeah that ObummerCare was really worth it for these DUMMOCRETIN peeps!
Awesome. I link to FBI crime statistics, and of course our right-wing friends respond with links to right-wing sites. (What, no WorldNet Daily?)
Puddingbrains, yes, your right-wing web site claims their ‘facts’ come from the CDC. The trouble is, if you read the story and click on the links, there’s nothing which actually takes you back to the CDC. It’s just one right-wing “source” after another — turtles all the way down.
Handguns are most definitely used in thousands of illegal killings every year. Some handguns may have deterred crimes, but even your ‘evidence’ is hazy on that. What are the chances I-594 will prevent a law-abiding citizen from procuring a firearm for self-defense? Effectively zero.
What are the chances I-594 will prevent a non-law-abiding citizen from procuring a firearm for nefarious purposes? Effectively zero.
What are the chances I-594 will prevent a non-law-abiding citizen from procuring a firearm for nefarious purposes? Effectively zero.
Just keep repeating that until you’re sure. It worked so well for you during the election cycle!
Holy Cow this vector of nothingness can’t figger it out even when Puddy delivers the facts on the study. It’s right there in post #26 sponsored by the CDC. Puddy found it butt tensor can’t. Proves how that still small mind works!
Hazy evidence? Puddy links the NY Times and that’s where the 67,000 guns used to stop crime average came from. That still doesn’t penetrate that granite encased neanderthal mind!
So since the vector into nothingness can’t accept anything except from libtard sources here it is from Daily Kooks ya moron… http://www.dailykos.com/story/.....-Violence#
Sigh!
Man you are reeeeeeeeeeally stoooooooooooooopid! Reeeeeeeeeeally reeeeeeeeeeally stoooooooooooooopid! You can’t be this stoooooooooooooooopid in real life or are you?
Dana Perino has a helpful way for Republicans to remember what the voters in the midterm want to see them accomplish: ‘Stop, drop and roll.’
STOP the President from any more executive action.
DROP Obamacare.
Get the economy ROLLing.
Yessiree!
Puddlebrains, even a fake right-wing attention-whore troll should know that when we evil libs ask you for evidence, it’s part of our reality-based plot to make you look even more foolish than you already are.
From your DailyKos link:
Defensive gun use is a fact but it is difficult to count accurately.
How difficult?
The CDC report made no effort to reconcile the differing estimates of DGUs, except to note that the estimate provided by the Kleck group was larger by an order of magnitude than the estimate arising from the NCVS. The CDC report noted that the estimate of DGU provided by the Kleck group is twice again as large as the estimate of the Dept. of Justice that there are 1.3 million crimes committed with a gun in the USA every year.
Here’s another tip. “Estimates differ by an order of magnitude,” is geek-speak for, “we’ve barely got a clue as to what’s really going on.”
But you did contradict the idea of personal-carry acting as a crime deterrent:
According to the CDC report: “The 2005 National Research Council study found no persuasive evidence from available studies that passage of right to carry laws decrease or increase violent crime. ”
And, by way of throwing in a thought, since we have no real idea how many DGUs were attempted, we can’t know how many times the attempted DGUs actually resulted in more injuries and deaths to innocent persons. Considering how many persons get shot at gun ranges, where the bullets are all supposed to be going away from the humans, that number could be pretty high.
@36 How does your tribe plan to do that?
STOP: Obama is still president, and you don’t have the votes to impeach him, so exactly how do you plan to stop him from taking lawful and constitutional execution actions that don’t require congressional approval?
DROP: Again, how? You have neither a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate nor enough votes to override a veto.
ROLL: When did you guys become Keynesians? Last I checked you were trying to turn the Great Recession into a Great Depression with your austerity bullshit. Oh and how are your gold investments doing?
Yawwwwnn.. So???
Confusing correlation with causation again? Refuge of the interminably stupid.
Yep, that’s our classic shithead for you. Breathing his own farts and the farts of other right wingers from the tight confines of the klownservative krap chamber.. like forever.
tensor,
There you go again.
First hypothesis – 1000 deaths vs 1 gun protection!
KAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABLAAAAAMMO
Next Hypothesis – CDC didn’t have anything to do with the study – Well Puddy had to use Daily Kooks to kick you side your granite encased neanderthal mind!
KAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABLAAAAAMMO
3rd Hypothesis – Now CDC is good stuff (since Puddy reproduced the Daily Kooks entry) while you discount the NY Times data of 67,000+ protections per year.
KAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABLAAAAAMMO
3 strikes yerrrrrrrrrr out!
You previously claimed the CDC had nothing to do with the report.
KAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABLAAAAAMMO – You really are stoooooooooooooopid. You wake up in the morning and look in the mirror and say “good morning stooooooooooopid”!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
It really Sux to be you!
monomaniacal moronic moonbat
One stone KAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABLAAAAAMMO’s two entries…
Those 15 senators lost their jobs over ObummerCare… People don’t want it… 25-60 million will lose their coverage over the 5.7 Million whom already lost it before Obummer delayed the carnage until 2016. Oopsie… Harry Reid no longer in charge of the senate!
You are reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally stooooooooooooooooopid too. You overreacted before reading more of the thread where Daily Kooks proved Puddy right AGAIN!. That’s why you are a dumb brick. Daily Kooks referenced the same material tensor so stooooooooooooooooopidly discounted earlier.
It really proves just how stooooooooooooooooooooooopid you are and how you suck on this blog every day!
jackASS!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
First hypothesis – 1000 deaths vs 1 gun protection!
To which you have provided no evidence of any kind whatsoever to refute. We don’t even have a ballpark figure for the number of claims of self-defense, let alone how many of those claims have any validity at all. (Yet to Gunfondler Nation, self-defense is real and murders are not. Strange.)
Furthermore, genius, I did not write about “deaths”, but “murders”. The former would include every attempted DGU which involves the death of someone involved, and is a much larger number than “murders”. Go back and have a child read my comment to you again, more slowly this time.
Thanks again for making my job here easier!
Oh yes Puddy did. The NY Times average of 67,000 per year. Isn’t murder death? So if death is higher than murder your numbers would look better!
KAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABLAAAAAMMO! Another swing and a miss by tensor!
Sux to be you!
“Dems don’t seem to see how they minimize their many advantages when leading liberal voices tell voters they’re stupid,” (*or racist or anti-woman or selfish…) National Journal‘s Ron Fournier wrote in response to this exercise in self-aggrandizement by Krugman.
In 2008 Obama promised to fundamentally change America…” – Glenn McCoy – November 07, 2014
Hope 2008
Change 2014
2008 Hope
2014 Change
“Another underreported fact from Tuesday’s election is the extraordinary night Republicans had in winning state legislative seats.”
“The GOP now controls two thirds of state legislative houses – 66 of 99 (Nebraska’s legislature is unicameral). They upped the number of states where they control both house and senate to 24 – one more than they had before the election. And according to this article in Vox, they cut the number of Democratic-held legislatures from 14 to 7.” – Rick Moran, November 0, 2014
2014 Governors Results
Dem: 17
GOP: 31
Ind : 0
Net Change: +3 GOP
On election day, Democrats got their asses handed to them – Jerry Holbert – November 07, 2014
“Yes, everything sucks for Democrats right now. Because the Democrats suck at everything. Get used to it.” Jeb Lund, The Guardian November 05, 2014
“The fog of the battle has lifted, and it is clear who won and who lost in the 2014 midterm elections. So now it is time for one of Washington’s favorite pastimes: finger-pointing, assigning blame and pursuing retribution. Losses get worse before they get better. The Democrats’ disappointment will set in, discouragement will follow and the beating they took Tuesday will seem much worse 60 days from now than it does today.”
“That said, Democrats are off to a quick start in getting at each other’s throats.” – Ed Rogers, November 06, 2014
More Rick Moran, November 06, 2014: “After the Newtown shootings, most new state laws surrounding guns actually eased restrictions on owning and carrying firearms. Seventy new laws loosening gun control were passed, 49 in states with Republican legislative majorities and Republican governors, compared to three in Democratically controlled states.”
While it’s been fun playing in the dirt for a while with the children, the asses and … the other animals famously known for muck wallowing, it’s time to pack up the celebratory confetti and streamers and gleefully leave you children, asses and muckers with the simple reminders and advice uttered so eloquently and with such utter disdain by the last black president:
January 23, 2009: “I won”
October 2012: “You don’t like a particular policy or a particular president? Then argue for your position. Go out there and win an election,”
“Catharsis through elections”, indeed
Isn’t murder death?
All murders are deaths; not all deaths are the results of murder. We have very good statistics on handguns and murder; approximately half of all murders use handguns. We have nothing but the wildest speculation on how many times a handgun is used in an attempt to stop a crime, and we have absolutely no idea if even one of those attempts succeeded. That’s why I threw the thousand-to-one figure out there, to show the difference between what we know about gun violence, and what Gunfondler Nation claims to know.
In any case, since I-594 merely completes existing law, it’s far more likely to prevent very real murders than to prevent those mythical uses of a handgun in self-defense.
*October 17 2013: “You don’t like a particular policy or a particular president? Then argue for your position. Go out there and win an election,”
In any case, since I-594 merely completes existing law, it’s far more likely to prevent very real murders than to prevent those mythical uses of a handgun in self-defense.
Keep wishing on that unicorn. And keep trying to prove your negative. You see, you can find MANY real examples where a handgun prevented violence, but there are NO examples where not having one prevented it.
@46 And you will be hard-pressed to find any example in the future where I-594 prevents a legitimate gun owner from owning his guns.
Looks like the Supreme Court may yet accomplish what the Republicans in Congress could not (and still can’t): Destroy Obamacare.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/1021297.....:topnews:2
Meanwhile, a federal circuit has issued a gay marriage ruling that creates a conflict among circuits, a traditional reason for the Supreme Court to decide issues. But I don’t think it’s a given the Court is ready to take on gay marriage. It might let the conflicting rulings ferment for a while. Perhaps a good long while. In which case, gay marriage may be a constitutional right in some states, a statutory right in others, and denied by yet others.
Followup: The FBI did more than create a fake Seattle Times website page to catch a criminal; we learned today that an FBI agent impersonated an AP reporter.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/fb.....t-suspect/
Roger Rabbit Commentary: The news media’s very legitimate objection to cops impersonating the news media is that, no matter how laudable the police objective may be, it undermines public trust of the media and makes it harder to gather and report news. From a legal standpoint, I think both the Seattle Times and Associated Press have a valid lawsuit against the FBI, for both injunction and damages.
Put yourself in their position for a moment. Imagine you own a business. If a competitor pretends to be you, wouldn’t you sue him? Of course you would. Now what if cops pretend to be you? Would you still sue? I don’t know about you, but I sure as hell would. Does this need to be explained?
It’s plain as day that the FBI infringed on the Seattle Times and Associated Press trademarks and business reputations. The FBI was tone deaf to these news organization’s legitimate business needs, and disregarded their intellectual property rights.
For that, the FBI deserves to be sued — and whoever authorized this should face tough discipline.
Typical conservative tactic. Demand that the solution is 100% effective. If it’s not, do nothing.
Conservatives. It’s only the press, no big deal. But don’t touch my guns!
Conservatives are idiots for countless reasons. They don’t do anything right.
You see, you can find MANY real examples where a handgun prevented violence,
NONE of which have you yet presented here. I’ve given the national statistics on murders with handguns, @16, above.
And keep trying to prove your negative.
I did that, too, also @16. In 2007, in the midst of a long-term, national decline in the murder rate, Missouri stopped requiring background checks for handgun purchases. In 2008, with the national murder rate still declining, Missouri recorded a huge increase in the number of murders. Combined with the knowledge that handguns are the most popular tool for murder in the United States, and it’s pretty easy for the rest of us to see why I-594 should cause a decline in number of murders in Washington State. If it does not, we can alter or abolish it.
Which reminds me — you’ve still got nothing on when the “WA Congress” will “overturn” I-594.
but there are NO examples where not having one prevented it.
No one ever escaped violence by running away from it.
Amazingly, according to you, it is entirely possible to commit murder with a “knife”, “hatchet,” or even “fists”, but it’s impossible to prevent a crime with those weapons. Nothing wins arguments like talking out of both sides of your ass at the same time!
[Deleted]
[Deleted]
If only those victims had carried guns, they could have prevented —
Wait, what?
In the chaos, one of the officer’s bullets struck a nearby pedestrian in her lower back. De Blasio said Friday that she was in critical but stable condition.
That’s how effective trained professionals are in such a situation. Yet, we’re to believe that civilians armed with handguns do better.
Thanks again for making this easy on me!
Yet more unsourced and unsupported garbage.. Probably from discredited hack Avik Roy.
Fayle yet again to support the bullshit.. The confusion of correlation with causation continues to hold.
Wait for it! Look.. in.. the.. database…
Heh. I only look there these days to laugh at your circlejerks with your sockpuppets among the various other silliness of yours and your fellow always wrong wing tools.
Try again dumbass..
Let’s see how quickly our pet village idiot troll credits this to klownservatives who won’t take office until January:
http://www.reuters.com/article.....conomy2010
Just like he credits people angry with incumbents for lack of progress on a host of issues for some strange reason not liking their kids on their heath insurance until 26 or not receiving help when they need it due to not reporting a case of acne in their teens.
Idiot is as idiot does.
Once again the American people prove they don’t understand how their own government works, or once again the silent majority were asleep through the midterms. Despite the troubles earlier in the year what is going on in the NFL is more important than what is happening in politics to most average Joe Americans.
If the American people were really upset with the alleged gridlock then they should have kept the democrats in control of the Senate and returned control of the House to the Democrats. Did we do that: NO so we are going have two more years of the past four years. Not much is going to get done and our President is being far more conciliatory than he should be. He should be telling some Republican’s you will play ball with me or pay back is a bitch. Maybe he should wink at them and threaten to pull out something from Palin’s playbook that would mean President Biden. Now that would be interesting a guy who is doesn’t shy from a fight in the office with what will be a do nothing congress. Wouldn’t that just ruffle some Republican feathers. Won’t happen but man that would be fun.
If we are really so upset with Washington then shouldn’t we have replaced a whole bunch of incumbents? Democrats and Republicans? That didn’t happen. Too bad.
Now this I 594 rubber will hit the road and we will all just have to see how it does and if it passes judicial muster in part or in whole.
I believe all Americans have a right to own a gun. Even if the US constitution were clearer it’s obvious that to American’s of that time period ownership of a gun was normal and they were common tools of the day, and like today there were tragic consequences when they were misused. Yet it was accepted that criminals would have guns as well as the law abiding citizen. When it comes to forming a militia it’s often the criminal I want on the line with me. I need that man or woman able to pull the trigger and blow the brains out of his fellow man if that man be an enemy of the |US constitution be he or she an enemy even if that man or woman be family, neighbor, lover, ect.
Aside from this though in modern life the truth is the majority of us do not need even the firearms common during the civil war to protect ourselves, and out firearms today are so much more.
Ok gun fans. tanks are arms, do we all have a right to own tanks? a bazooka is an arm, and it can be borne, so can suitcase sized nuclear weapons, very effective in case of tyrrany. let’s assume the us government is jailing people without end, violating the constitution by illegal wars, torturing people, and violating our liberty by spying on us all. with suitcase sized nukes we could threaten our own government to stop it! so therefore, we all have a right to bear arms. right? so answer this, do we have a right to own, bear, carry nuclear weapons, too? they are arms, aren’t they? same question, gatling guns, mustard gas, ships, mines, explosives like plastique. it’s an arm, right? so we should all gear up with all this crap, then we can preserve our liberty by using it against our own government, right, is that your theory? it says arms not guns, too, so don’t dodge the question.