This should make my millionaire-coddling friends at the Seattle Times happy:
Sens. Jon Kyl (R-AZ) and Blanche Lincoln (D-AR) recently introduced a $250 billion amendment to slash estate taxes for the heirs of multimillion-dollar estates. Yesterday, the Senate narrowly passed the bill by a 51-48 vote. Joining Republicans in approving the bill were ten Senate Democrats…
And two of those ten Democrats to cross party lines were our very own Senators Patty Murray and Maria Cantwell.
I mean really… WTF?
Good. The money’s already been taxed. It doesn’t need to be taxed again.
Well, here’s some “political leadership” which Blethen and the Times are no doubt behind one hundred percent.
Surely it must be intended to pave the way for states, like Washington, to implement or increase our own estate taxes.
That’s the best I can do.
I’m not surprised by Cantwell, who must have an estate worth well in excess of 10 million…but…et tu, Patty????
Troll @ 1:
We know the money was taxed once.
Do you even know why we have an estate tax?
I don’t even know why I vote anymore…
GBS–
Your propensity to take from others is soooo enormous. Yes, it was already taxed once. That’s enough.
How come the Fringe Lunatic Left is so enamored WITH OTHER PEOPLE’S MONEY!
OPM Addicts, aren’t you GBS.
Why not take all the energy you spend focused on others money and make your own??
Too tough?
Too risky?
I thought so.
NO – most of estate assets have NOT been taxed before. If you own a piece of land you bought 20 years ago for 10,000 and it’s now worth one million, the heirs will not pay any capital gains tax on the 990,000 increase of valuation. The same goes for stocks.
why are all you people so concerned about multi multi millionaires and so against helping schools and students?
@6: Funds to run government have to come from somewhere. That’s how we get schools, roads, bridges, parks, police, fireman, etc…
the question is, when there is a shortfall, where should the money come from? Those that can least afford it, or those that can most afford it?
Dead people are the least burdened by a tax increase.
And dead people with estates in the millions are most likely to be the ones that gained the most in recent years, as the poor and middle class lost ground.
Taxes on the working class is “other peoples money” also. Any tax that you don’t pay, is “other peoples money”. That’s completely beside the point.
Tell us where to cut billions, or where to generate new tax revenue.
Or shut up.
Troll @ 1: I agree 100%. How many times must a given dollar be taxed?
GBS @ 4: Good question. Why do we have an estate tax?
99.8% will pay no estate tax, ever. So Mr. Cynical and Mange-o, I assume you must be one of the .2%. Here’s a dunce cap. Please stand at the corner of Pike Street and confess your many crimes against the people. Then, please report to the re-education camp. We have a special cell and some cool activities — just for you!
Thank you Goldy for posting on this outrage.
Please let Maria and Patty know this vote isn’t acceptable:
Murray (Toll Free): (866) 481-9186
Cantwell: 202-224-3441
Zotz @ 10: No, I’m not in the estate tax range (either the old $7M or the new $10M). Maybe you could try answering the questions, rather than resorting to lame ad hominem attacks. Or maybe I just have unreasonable expectations.
What a sorry vote from these senators. With l in 8 living below the poverty line, l in 10 on food stamps and Wa state in budget peril they vote like this. This is not acceptable. Perhaps they have been there too long.
1, 9
The money’s already been taxed. It doesn’t need to be taxed again.
The money my employer pays me is money on which they already paid corporate tax. Why do I get taxed on it too?
The money my employer makes for its products is money that a bunch of poor slobs got taxed on already. Why could my employer pay taxes on their sales when it’s all just money that’s been taxed before?
Don’t be willfully obtuse. That means, “Don’t act stupid when you’re not.”
Leaving aside the question if untaxed capital gains (see @7), it’s a simple matter: Person A leaves their estate to person B. Person A paid taxes on asomething. Does this establish that person B should not be taxed upon the receipt of all of this income?
The answer, for the willfully obtuse, is NO. In fact, inheritance itself is just a big gift to the heirs that they have done NOTHING to earn. Why should they even be allowed to inherit? Fuck it. Take it all.
You know that heirs get teh first $1 million tax-free, right?
To pass estates on to heirs as untaxed income is doubly unfair to middle-income wage-earners. Unfair first because they pay double tax — income and payroll — on every penny of their income, while high wage-earners are largely exempt and interest-earners totally exempt from payroll tax. Unfair secondly because, if the rich escape paying for government services, either the non-rich will have to pay more or the services will disappear. At present the estate tax contributes something like $27 billion a year to the federal budget. Raising that much from the bottom half of all taxpayers would double their tax rate.
Today’s workers are 24 percent more productive than they were five years ago but their median real earnings have barely budged.
What’s happened to all this extra value? A big chunk has gone to people earning over $1 million a year—mostly CEOs, investment bankers and hedge fund managers. This past year, 25 hedge fund managers each took home at least $130 million. Henry Paulson, our about-to-be Treasury Secretary, pocketed over $30 million. Average CEO pay back in 1966 was 60 times that of the typical American worker. Now it’s 400 times. Exxon’s former chairman just got a thoughtful retirement package of close to $400 million.
Wealth is even more lopsided than income. Henry Paulson’s net worth of more than $700 million doesn’t even earn him a place among Forbes richest 400 Americans. You have to have at least $900 million to get there. Most are billionaires.
But now we’re supposed to cut those assholes an even bigger check of the money they’re making off of OUR LABOR? Fuck that.
According to a new report from United for a Fair Economy, 18 families worth a total of $185 billion have financed and coordinated the estate tax repeal campaign. They’ve underwritten the massive PR drive that fooled most Americans into thinking the estate tax was a “death” tax that would fall on them. They posed as small businesses and family farmers, saying their livelihoods would be threatened unless the tax were repealed. In fact it’s hard to find a small business or family farm with an estate valued at more than $4 million.
Most of these 18 families have been wealthy for decades. Only five of them include any of the people who first earned the family fortune. If they succeed in their repeal campaign, they’ll save a total of $71 billion on their tax bills. That’s a healthy return on their investment in politics. Maybe you call this entrepreneurship. I call it further proof of the danger of concentrated wealth.
Portions of the preceding two posts courtesy of Robert Reich’s “The Estate Tax Pyramid Scheme.”
http://www.tompaine.com/articl.....scheme.php
this is another example of “there is no difference between Elephants and Asses”
i am so proud to say i have NEVER voted for an ass or an elephant nor will i…..i will write in and deface my ballot (or leave it blank) before i ever vote the corporate overlords.
When the next election season comes around you’ll find me puttering around in my kitchen and garden and riding my bike.
Rather then (than?) working on campaigns to help make the world a better place, I’ll grow extra food and teach other how to garden, how to can and preserve food and how to tuneup their bikes. I’m pretty sure doing that will do the world a hell of a lot more good then working on some politicians campaign.
My guess is their BFFs at Boeing and Microsoft told them their campaign funds would dry up if they voted to keep the estate tax.
Bill Gates Sr. is on record, as is Warren Buffett, as being FOR the estate tax.
In order to have substantive debate on why an estate tax is invalid you must first know why the tax was instituted.
Can any conservative give a reasoned and accurate answer as to why the estate tax was implemented?
How about a Luxury sales taxes. Possible targets: car sales over fifty thousand dollars; home sales over one million dollars; luxury box tickets at athletic stadiums; recreational vehicles including boats which serve not as a primary residence; expensive jewelry; art over one thousand dollars in value; luxury electronics and appliances over three thousand dollars in value; ; expensive home renovations on homes already worth one million dollars or more; and so on and so forth. Items bought elsewhere brought into the state will be taxed upon entry for current residents. Cheaters will be caught when they make insurance claims on items where they did not pay the tax.
You go to Vegas and win big at the tables, you pay tax on that.
You get selected on Extreme Makeover, Home Edition and they replace your tarpaper shack with a two million dollar house, and you get taxed on that.
Your Uncle Irving’s third cousin Martha, who you haven’t seen in 40 years, has a cute picture of you as a baby and no kids of her own and leaves you a couple million, and you’re not supposed to owe any tax?
In either of the situations above, you’re receiving money you didn’t earn in the traditional sense. Why the hell should you get a free pass while some poor slob who spends his life earning money with the sweat off his brow has to pay tax on all of it?
What am I missing here?
Mange-o spewed: “No, I’m not in the estate tax range…”
I take it you’re a sucker then?
Lots of things are taxed twice, unless you are rich enough to never pay taxes.
The staff folks on Murray and Cantwell’s phone lines were very clueless on the reasoning for voting for this when I called them earlier.
22 I’m OK with that, as long is it’s implemented with an automatic adjustment of the threshold to track inflation. We’ve seen what happens without it with the Alternative Minimum Tax.
C’mon Mr. C. you’re better than that. Our best discussions were over financial matters.
You should really seek some professional help with your obvious anger and distress issues.
I know, I know, it seemed like only yesterday your kind was chattering insensately about a permanent Republican majority. Now, you’re a regionalized party whose base in concentrated in the South.
Newt Gingrich said it best: “Another phrase for regionalized party is minority party.” I don’t know how old you are, but if you’re over 40 you’ll go to your grave before you’ll see Republicans controlling congress again.
What a bitch, huh?
President Obama is setting a new Gold Standard for presidential leadership. Have you seen him at the G-20? Regardless of your irrelevant opinion, he’s getting respect from the rest of the world. And you yum-yums claimed Sarah Palin was more qualified to be president because she had 18 months of “executive experience.”
Baaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa.
Thanks for the laugh at your expense. Hey, when she runs in 2012, I’m going to invest in President Obama’s reelection campaign by contributing to Palin in the Republican primaries. Gawd, that’s going to be funny if she runs against President Obama. He just might get every single electoral vote in that match up.
The word games we play.
If we call it Income Tax it’s ok?
If we call “Inheritance Tax” it isn’t?
Personally I’m not opposed to the tax.
I do object to it’s class warefare title and the rate.
It should be unearned income rolled in with the tax return of that year.
Or is that too simple?
GBS–
Go ahead and bash Palin again if it makes you feel good.
My only response is Ashley Biden, Coke-snorter.
@21
To fund wars?
GBS
To finance the military.
Also, it was meant as a temporary measure, not permanent.
As a matter of pricipal, I don’t think it proper for the government to keep taxing monies already taxed….If an individual wants to leave their estate to family, it should be on no concern to the govt. Likewise if the individual wishes to leave it all to the government, charity, pet, whatever… The gov got theirs, enough.
Hey, I wonder if Goldy’s hero, Bill Gates, Sr. is behind this??
Sounds about right as Gate’s Sr. is wise enough to shelter his INCOME and focus on Capital Gains.
Interesting, huh?
The problem with the estate tax is that is actually does hurt people who deserve not to be hurt. Many small businesses end when the founder dies simply because the heirs don’t have the cash to pay the estate taxes.
Raise the limit to something like $1 billion per inheritor, and that should have zero impact on small businesses. That means, for example, if a guy dies and leaves a $5 billion estate to his five kids, none of them will owe the government a thing.
Oh yeah be sure to index the $1 billion per inheritor for inflation.
Under such a system, Warren Buffet’s estate may owe some bucks, but the vast majority of estates won’t owe a nickel. Since Buffet is very pro-tax, it’s fitting that his estate should get hit hard by estate taxes.
STUPID GODDAMN MOTHERFUCKER AT 28…
…did that make you feel good, little boy?
RS @ 31:
Respectfully you’re on both accounts. It was designed neither to fund the military nor be temporary.
Do your homework.
NEXT!!
Mr. C at 29:
Dry up those tears “ALICE.” It aint gonna fly here.
You ilk has been Clinton bashing for 16+ years. You’ge going to hear about this one for a loooooooooong time. Get used to it.
You voted for her. Not me.
GBS–
How about this–
Estate Tax History Versus Myth
Source: Bruce Bartlett, senior fellow, National Center for Policy Analysis, July 19, 2000.
Rujax @ 34
I’m flattered.
I didn’t think you cared about either my smarts or my feelings.
Hows about we start a round of Kumbya?
You go first.
GBS
Respectfully,
The library of congress
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/.....9&
President Obama is setting a new Gold Standard for presidential leadership. Have you seen him at the G-20? Regardless of your irrelevant opinion, he’s getting respect from the rest of the world.
——————-
Yea, but he’s just not getting any troops for Afghanistan from the rest of the world, eh? Europe loves Obama, but not enough to respond to his pleas for more boots on the ground. That’s making Afghanistan look increasingly like an American project, with nearly 70,000 US soldiers expected to be parked there by year’s end, twice the non-US NATO commitment. And it went largely unnoticed in the press, but US generals have asked for additional American forces for next year.
We’ll see how long the love affair continues – both here and abroad – as the media begins to turn its attention to an escalating Afghan commitment that appears to have no exit strategy.
Sound familiar?
37 Seems to me the Bushistas did their damnedest to repurpose government so as to “redistribute income” on an unprecedented scale…only upwards, from working-class wage earners and their offspring to the already wealthy.
“but the vast majority of estates won’t owe a nickel.”
They already don’t. Most of ’em don’t amount to a hill of beans, after Mom and Dad exhaust their resources for medical care before they finally croak.
RS @ 39:
I know it feels like you have the right answer, with a link to a government web site and all.
But, in the substantive debate we’re attempting to have it is incorrect, except the 1916 date.
Your clue resides there. See if you can find the answer.
Good luck.
Mr C. cut-n-pasted at 37:
“But estate planning makes the tax virtually voluntary, according to estate tax experts.
Thanks for making my point we need to strengthen our tax code regarding the estate tax.
Appreciated the help. I wouldn’t have expected Bruce Bartlett, the former head brew master for the People’s Temple in Guyana, to tangle up your wonderfully thought out cut-n-paste work.
What’s your favorite Bruce Bartlett flavor?
Right Stuff, I’m going to give you partial credit for your answer because I didn’t preface my question well.
While it is true the first forms of a “death tax” did come and go throughout our history, and it was also true it was for financing military needs on a short term basis, it is not at the root of the Federal Estate Tax implemented in 1916.
OK, that’s a clue for the rest of you.
To 33 – Politically Incorrect
Not only are you Politically Incoorect – you are factuallly incorrect. The estate tax hurts a very small number of small business’s. Most small business’s earn less then $250,000.00 a year and very few are worth more then the $3,500,000.00.
See below:
According to the IRS literature, an estate tax filing need only be made if the value of an estate exceeds the following amounts:
2005: First $1,500,000 in assets
2006-2008: First $2,000,000 in assets
2009: First $3,500,000 in assets
In addition, the maximum estate tax rate applied to the amounts in excess of these figures are as follows:
2005: 47 percent
2006: 46 percent
2007- 2009: 45 percent
In 2010, the estate tax rate drops to zero percent; if you die in that year, your heirs would not pay taxes, even if you passed on $20 billion!
One caveat: Congress ensured that the law sunsets in 2011. That is, on January 1st, 2011, the estate tax rate will return to its pre-Bush levels. Practically speaking, this means the difference between dying on December 31, 2010 and January 1, 2011 can mean 55 percent of your estate if you are person of means!
Jon @ 40.
It’s too soon to know if he’ll get additoinal troops. However, you must understand that
A) there are more NATO troops in Afghanistan than Iraq.
B) As Pres. Obama stated the war cannot be won by military means alone. Any additoinal help we get in monetary aid, intel, logistics, support, training, civilian leadership, rebuilding etc. will all help us win the war.
C) Unfortunately, Bush set the war in motion with our full commitment without a coherent strategy. However, Pres. Obama has laid the groundwork for an exit strategy that won’t rely on just the US to complete.
D) Our allies will help us because Pres. Obama is growing a grass roots support in Europe like he did in America. Now it’s a “community organzing” event on a global scale. How much more we’ll get I cannot say for certain, but I am certain America will get more support than Bush could get.
Pres. Obama is a leader, Bush will never be considered a leader in it’s true sense of the word.
@47 Our allies will help us because Pres. Obama is growing a grass roots support in Europe like he did in America. Now it’s a “community organzing” event on a global scale. How much more we’ll get I cannot say for certain, but I am certain America will get more support than Bush could get.
————
We shall see. This could very easily become a major campaign issue in 2010 that divides the Dems.
On the estate tax:
“Not long after the ratification of the 16th Amendment, The United States entered World War I. During this time, the United States derived a vast majority of its tax revenues from tariffs. Naturally, since Europe was at war, imports and exports between the United States and Europe decreased dramatically, along with the associated tariffs that imports brought. Congress again saw the need for additional forms of revenue for financing its domestic programs and another war. On September 9, 1916, the estate tax became a permanent part of the government’s revenue sources with the passage of the Revenue Act of 1916. This estate tax was based on the value of the decedent’s net estate, which made it a true estate tax and not an inheritance tax.”
From:
http://www.cluteinstitute-onli.....s/1321.pdf
In addition, in the years prior there had been building impetus for correcting income disparity, so perhaps the reasons for the legislation were varied.
“The years immediately following the repeal of the inheritance tax were witness to an unprecedented number of mergers in the manufacturing sector of the economy, fueled by the development of a new form of corporate ownership, the holding company. This resulted in the concentration of wealth in a relatively small number of powerful companies and in the hands of the businessmen who headed them. Along with such wealth came great political power, fueling fears over the rise of an American plutocracy and sparking the growth of the progressive movement. Progressives, including President Theodore Roosevelt, advocated both an inheritance tax and a graduated income tax as tools to address inequalities in wealth. This thinking eventually led to the passage of the 16th Amendment to the Constitution and the enactment of the Federal income tax. It was not until the advent of another war, World War I, that Congress would enact the Federal estate tax.”
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/ninetyestate.pdf
On the subject of the Paris Hilton tax(or as the reich-wingnuts call it the death tax) This country was not meant to have an aristocracy. We do not need generations of Gates, Ballmers, McCaws or Paul Allens to lord over the serfs of Washington, shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in 3 generations, tax that ass, they helped put us debt they can bail us out. Shame on Patty Murray for telling working Washington to Dick Cheney themselves, good thing the house will slap this bill down or so I hope.
Shameful
What the Republicans said they wanted while they had control was the elimination of the capital gains, dividend and estate taxes. After all that, just what taxes would the rich pay? None. Generation after generation. No taxes paid whatsoever.
clueless wonder@50, you looked in the mirror. A truthful post for a change.
@49
Are you talking about the niggers beat Tubaman to death, and only going to be sentenced to weeks in jail?
BTW, I do detest the word nigger. I only use it toward African-Americans that are in fact niggers. The teenagers that beat Tubaman to death are niggers.
Troll@53, there are white ones too. Robert 3 Sheets Triple K Byrd told us about them. Puddy thinks stillbentover is one of the white ones. Tubaman was great guy. My boys saw him play a few times.
51 – You lied.
Just another day in your miserable life.
@54
I went to his memorial.
Now, if it were 5 white teens that robbed, then beat to death an old black man, and were sentenced to weeks in jail, do you think blacks would protest and riot? Yes? Well, why is it that whites aren’t rioting?
Fact: Not one book store was looted during the L.A. riots.
@1 “Good. The money’s already been taxed.”
That’s absolutely false. Most large estates contain a significant amount of untaxed capital gains, and the heirs get a basis step-up that shields those gains from tax. The result is that neither the original owner nor his heirs ever pay any income tax, capital gains tax, or any other tax on those gains — they are completely untaxed. No worker gets a deal like that. Even tax-sheltered retirement savings eventually are taxed at an ordinary income — not capital gains — rate. This is an unjustifiable free ride for the rich.
I think estate taxes should be abolished and inheritances should be treated as ordinary income of the heirs.
GBS @ 44
What’s your favorite Bruce Bartlett flavor?
Damn, man, but that’s one of the funniest lines I’ve read here in a long while.
Wages are the most tax-disfavored income there is. Self-employed business owners get away with deducting all sorts of personal expenditures as “business expenses.” Investors get huge tax breaks on capital gains and dividend income. The rich get to shelter their interest income from municipal bonds. Workers get fucked. That’s why I don’t work. Our tax system punishes people for working. That’s why I’ve chosen to be an unproductive stock-flipper. The tax code rewards me for pushing the same dollars in endless circles. Not one penny of my “investments” ever capitalizes a business or helps create a job. It all goes into the pockets of some other stock flipper! I sell him my stock, and he sells me his stock, and we both get a huge tax break for doing nothing and producing nothing! Only a wingnut or a corrupt third world official could love a system like this. Nobody should work. I don’t. Why should I work, when the government punishes you for working?
@48
Pierce County representin’!
If the estate tax is eliminated, then the basis step-up should also be eliminated, so that either the estate or the heir pays a capital gains tax on previously untaxed capital gains.
Of all the ways to get money in our society — inheriting, investing, etc. — working for it is the worst way of getting it there is. Earned income gets the least exemptions and deductions, and is subjected to the highest tax rates. Congress has made it clear, as a matter of national policy, that it doesn’t want Americans to work.
I’m never going to be productive again. Why should I? Producers are taxed to death! Owners and heirs get to skate. So I’m going to own instead of produce.
RS @ 31
As a matter of pricipal, I don’t think it proper for the government to keep taxing monies already taxed
The problem with that idea, and with all so-called double-taxing arguments in general, is that economic activity is all about the flow of funds (well, except in a completely barter society, but that’s not what we’re talking about here). Not too long ago, Brad deLong gave one of the better explanations of the velocity of money here.
So, taking Brad’s two scenarios, how do you decide when the $500 has been doubly-taxed? It’s the same $500 in scenario B as in scenario A, but scenario B involves several more transactions.
The only realistic solution is to tax transactions, because money doesn’t sit idle. And, so long as we can only realistically look at this in terms of transactions, the only way we can meaningfully double-tax is if we tax the same transaction more than once (which can happen, by the way–see if you can figure out how).
@65 The main problem with his argument is that most large estates consist largely of capital gains that have never been taxed and never will be taxed if there is no estate tax. It’s a free ride for the wealthy. Without an estate tax, they can make millions or billions, and never pay a penny of taxes on any of it.
GBS: Bruce Bartlett hung with the big Democratic in CA. You should ask Willie Brown why he liked Jim Jones so much.
Rabbits who have served in the military should be exempt from taxes.
@7 “why are all you people so concerned about multi multi millionaires and so against helping schools and students?”
Because they enjoy being assholes.
We’re already taxing the shit out of cigarets; maybe it’s time we tax the shit out of guns. I’m not saying license gun owners or regulate gun possession. Just a tax, that’s all. $1,000 or $5,000 per firearm. Put the money in a special fund to help victims of mass shootings, of which the U.S. averages about 1 a day.
@67 “Bruce Bartlett hung with the big Democratic in CA.”
So did Ronald Reagan back in the day. So what? Are you arguing that Reagan was a closet Democrat again?
This Bruce Bartlett? From Wiki:
“In 1976, he served on the staff of Rep. Ron Paul of Texas as a legislative assistant. In 1977, he joined the staff of Rep. Jack Kemp of New York as a special assistant and staff economist. While with Kemp, Bartlett helped draft the famous Kemp-Roth tax bill. Between 1979 and 1980, he worked for Sen. Roger Jepsen of Iowa as chief legislative assistant. In 1981, Bartlett joined the staff of the Joint Economic Committee of Congress as deputy director, becoming executive director in 1983. In 1996, one of his columns inspired Bob Dole’s 15 percent tax reduction plan.”
Steve, if GBS is going to make a joke on Bruce Bartlett around the deaths of 912 people, Puddy should remind all that Jim Jones was the big friend of Bay Area Democrats.
“The gains from recent economic growth flowed disproportionately to the wealthy. According to one study by Robert Gordon of Northwestern University and Ian Dew-Becker of Harvard, the top 10% of earners received the vast majority of the benefits of the “productivity miracle” of 1996-2005. Another international study found that only Mexico and Russia had more unequal income distributions than America.” — The Economist, a U.K.-based conservative pro-business newsweekly
@72 “Steve, if GBS is going to make a joke on Bruce Bartlett around the deaths of 912 people, Puddy should remind all that Jim Jones was the big friend of Bay Area Democrats.”
You and your guilt by association. I remind you again that Ronald Reagan was not only a California Democrat, he was a “Hollyweird” Democrat.
#58
Roger is correct. I inherited part of real estate which was purchased for tens of thousands of dollars in the early 70s and was worth hundreds of thousands before the recent bust (some less less hundreds of thousands now). I am only on the hook for capital gains from the time I inherited it. All the cap gains from the deceased previous owner reset to zero. Quite the deal, eh?
Roger,
You want to ban something that’s dangerous? A little under 40,000 killed per year. Let’s ban cars…..they squish rabbits too.
In case you’re wondering why they voted that way:
“[P]olitical parties in many countries depend on wealthy individuals. Politicians have had to tread carefully for fear of giving offence to their paymasters.” — The Economist
The magazine also stated that in America, 85% of campaign contributions come from people making over $100,000 a year, and only 5% from people making less than $50,000 a year.
@77 Yes! Yes! Yes! Any place you can’t hop to isn’t worth going to.
Levi And Bristol, The Sequel
“Palin family spokeswoman Meghan Stapleton said Bristol Palin was unaware Johnston would be appearing on ‘The Tyra Banks Show,’ along with his mother, Sherry, and sister, Mercede.
“‘We’re disappointed that Levi and his family, in a quest for fame, attention and fortune, are engaging in flat-out lies, gross exaggeration, and even distortion of their relationship,’ Stapleton said in a statement Friday.”
(Quoted from Associated Press under fair use)
Roger Rabbit Commentary: Don’t you just love watching these people feeding on each other’s flesh?
“Don’t you just love watching these people feeding on each other’s flesh?”
Well, no. Not really. I’d rather not watch them at all.
OK, it’s kind of fun to watch Caribou Barbie. Sure sucks to listen to her. Apparently a lot of other folks agreed with me in November.
It was also of passing interest up yonder to watch “troll” commit the stellar brain fart of the evening, followed by a predictable lame-ass attempt to cover for it, followed by Pudwhacker (of all people) jumping in and giving him a free pass.
RR-
Don’t ya like Chris Rock’s idea that we just put a HUGE tax on ammunition? $5,000 per bullet.
@82 Ignorance of facts is their stock in trade.
Puddy and Troll are room mates
80. Roger Rabbit spews:
I’d rather watch the ongoing saga of
ASHLEY BIDEN, Coke-snorter
83. Highlander spews:
Idiot KLOWNS actually believe this is a viable solution. Good luck collecting!
PS–
Lots of folks load their own.
Gonna tax gun powder too?
Hey KLOWNS…especially Rog–
Did you know Ashley BIDEN is a Coke-snorter??
Bet she started with legalized medical marijuana. Look where it led.
re 8: Your concern seems to be with who will pay the tax rather than whether it is fair, unfair, or anything else. You are an apologist for millionaires while being a relative pauper yourself.
You would either have to pay someone to believe what you espouse or have the person be a brainwashed, dithering idiot.
The ‘insurgency’ that is happening elsewhere in this world will come home to roost — and the children of the rich will be the first soldiers in it.
re 88: Yeah, right. And you were conceived when your parents were tripping on Owlsley.
Not all genetic mutations are positive.
http://www.thirdworldtraveler......beral.html
“When Bush moved into the White House, movement conservatism finally found itself in control of all the levers of power – and quickly proved itself unable to govern. The movement’s politicization of everything, the way it values political loyalty above all else, creates a culture of cronyism and corruption that has pervaded everything the Bush administration does, from the failed reconstruction of Iraq to the hapless response to Hurricane Katrina. The multiple failures of the Bush administration are what happens when the government is run by a movement that is dedicated to policies that are against most Americans’ interests, and must try to compensate for that inherent weakness through deception, distraction, and the distribution of largesse to its supporters.” Paul Krugman
………//////////
re 88: There is a biographical and historical link from comment 89 to 90. Can you find it?
Bet you can’t.
@89: WTF?
I’d love to respond, but I can’t find the faintest connection between my comment (#8), and your reply.
Can someone help me out here?
If we truly believe in a meritocracy, estates should be taxed at 100%. That way, every generation would start anew (not quite, because advantages flow to the offspring of the living, of course, but, whatever). Anyone who would oppose this 100% tax on estates must surely support affirmative action, I would guess. Isn’t that so, all you wingnuts? Everyone should be judged on their own merit, by the product of their own effort, right? No one should get either a head start or a helping hand, isn’t that so?
Proud Lefitist–
Your ideology would lead to a generation of Socialist losers…with no incentive to build wealth. Once again, your dogma sucks.
PL is incapable of looking at the undesirable consequences of his wetdreams.
PL==
Brainfart directly out of mouth with no syphon to evealuate it.
TOO DAMN FUNNY!
You KLOWNS live in your Class Warfare Dreamworld and waste time & energy on nonsense.
Karl Marx must be your man when he said:
Cantwell is a multi-millionaire. This is not surprising in her case.
Here’s another situation…
You are 18 years old, your parents pay for your college education.
Why shouldn’t the 18 year old adult have to pay taxes on the money he didn’t earn that benefits him?
@82 I let that one go at the time. I wanted to give it a wee bit more thought.
I’ll save that one for later use. I really believe that Puddy’s just a little too fucked up in the head. Compare Troll’s post with the stuff Puddy dug up from Headless back in 2005 or the great offense he spews at the word “oreo”. For Headless, Puddy whines for years afterwards. He goes so far as to use that as an excuse for not standing up to manoftruth. But for Troll, Puddy shows his love within minutes. That was the most sickening exchange I have ever read on this blog.
As for you Troll, if I ever have the pleasure of your company and you start spewing that racist shit, I’ll will deal with your badass self.
As for you, Puddy, you fucked up. Big time. Here’s the way it’s going to be. Any future mention of Headless or Rujax! will result in a reposting of Troll’s post and your amazingly pathetic response. Any post of manoftruth’s that is ignored by you will result in same. That’s the way it’s going to be until you show some courage.
Many arguments on here in favor of estate tax, keep focusing on 2 points :
1. We need the money
2. Hey, they’re rich anyway
Those arguments do not really address why we should take this money, in this way, for this reason. The real argument may be that rich people should be taxed more in general. If that’s your real point than why play games and have all these different little confusing taxes.
On the surface, estate tax has an unfair aftertaste. My grandfather worked hard and smart and took risks and made money, and paid a crapload of tax all along the way. If the way he wants to spend that money is by giving his bloodline some security and wealth, that is how he wants to spend his money. Hell, he could have bought ice cream with the whole fortune. He already paid tax.
So if the real point is let’s take more money from rich people, just jack up the total tax on rich people, rather than make people scratch their heads about all the odd little taxes on everything. Remember, it was “tea tax” that was the last straw in Boston more than two centuries ago. Let’s have a sneeze tax, a birth tax, a barmitzvah tax, an estate tax, a mortgage refinance tax…
…or not. Why can’t we just have one big rate, based on wealth, and cut out the games?
.
society needs money
dead people don’t
in the long run a rich person’s ‘bloodline’ will be better off to ‘inherit’ a healthy educated society. science shows great disparity leads to worse health outcomes in everyone.
and, yes, let’s raise taxes on the wealthy. we tried the other way and it failed, miserably.
maureeno–
Coo-Coo.
We tried it the other way?
Have you ever looked at the stats of how many people pay $0??
Typical Marxist KLOWN!
Karl Marx:
Has never worked nutcase…and history says it never will. Grow up. Wise up. Produce…don’t envy others.
‘Cantwell, Murray vote to slash estate tax on multi-millionaires’
Goldy’s little bald-head explodes; beard falls off.
Rodent’s blood pressure monitor shreiks loudly; rolls himself over to the medicine cabinet.
Mark1, Mr. Cynical, Troll, Rick D., and Puddy all have a good hearty laugh.
Almost forgot: YLB is still “between jobs” and a non-taxpayer, but grimaces nonetheless.
97 – Steve – awesome. I literally couldn’t believe that exchange myself.
Hey Steve, can’t deal with sarcasm can you? And clueless wonder just follows the crowd where ever the weasels lead him. The stillbentover comments stands.
BTW Steve, You had your opportunity with headless and YOU PASSED. Now you “mockingly display” righteous indignation? Steve you claim to be from the hood.
46 Imagine the thrill that someday you can
schedule your own euthanasia around the tax laws. God damn liberals are awesome! Even
Daschle himself thinks old people will just have to accept their condition. I’m sure when his “condition” appears he’ll just pull the plug. Riiiiiiggggghhht.
Most lottery winners end up in worse financial
shape in the long run because they dont have
the financial “maturity” to handle money responsibly (kind of like our elected officials). They usually blow all of the money.
I would imagine an inheritance would work the same on the human psyche. I say let the irresponsible inheritors stimulate the economy
the natural way by being retarded, like democrats!
You followed Captain Ed Stupes. Where is he now? He writes for Michelle “John Galt” Malkin. “The Wall, The Wall”, you once bleated, so sure you could blame 9/11 on Bill Clinton.
You followed all that right wing bullshit and it only led you to defeat and the ugly reality-denying rants you post here daily.
You’re a failure Stupes.
Mark@104 we have a close friend who is a lead hospital administrator for a very well know Seattle area hospital. I’ll call him Oscar.
Oscar told us yesterday the surprise of many in the Seattle medical community over preznit Obama’s upcoming rationed health care proposal. They can’t believe the preznit is marching down that path.
Knowing his attitude in some things I looked at him square in the eye and said “Welcome to the British Health Care System.”
Oscar looked at me for two seconds with the recognition light coming on and he said “I am shocked at what is coming.
I then added “Many are shocked at everything Obama is doing.”
Then Oscar added “I guess so. Imagine you are 80 years old and there is a procedure costing $50,000 to save your life or you’ll die in six months. Obama will empower some bureaucrat to make a bean counter decision for life or death issues.”
Phillip then added “He’s proposing this?”
Oscar said “It’s coming.”
Then I added “Remember Charlton Heston in soylent green?”
Oscar said “No.”
“What? You never saw Soylent Green”
Martin said “You never saw it coming until the end”
“What?” said Oscar.
“Recycling dead old people as green food chips. Instead of burning them to ashes in the Nazi concentration camp, they are processed for food for the living.” I said.
End of story.
They
Oh lookit the clueless wonder follow the crowd fool appeared again.
Hey “take the test take the test take the test” clueless wonder. Oh it’s fake.
Hey “GWBush Rejected Kyoto.” Oops… it wasn’t Senate Ratified. What a moron.
Funny even WikiPedia has the Gorelick Wall turdblossom. “However, the “Gorelick Wall” barred anti-terror investigators from accessing the computer of Zacarias Moussaoui, the 20th hijacker, already in custody on an immigration violation.”
Also how in good conscience can you quote Slade Gorton on this item when you’ve stated over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over on HA weasels you hate the man? Wait a minute… you don’t have a conscience…
Funny you are a Fool walking alone monomaniacal one! Rejected by HA lefties everywhere for inbred insipid incorrigible inane idiocy.
LMAO!!! ‘Cuz he refutes your stupid bullshit and HE”S ON YOUR SIDE!
HOW FUCKING STUPID ARE YOU??!!!???!!!
I gotta give you this one Stupes: you’ll NEVER be rejected by your side. You know why?
You personify your side. Ugly reality-denying bullshit that responds to being discredited with EVEN MORE wild-ass bullshit!
Your peeps eat.that.shit.up!
107 – LMAO!!! Stupes calls out to the same racist loser called Iraqis “mud people” and Obama a “jigaboo”.
What happened to the bubble memory fool? Oh I forgot – all is forgiven in the racism department as long as the proper right wing bullshit is spewed.
107 – Total sick ass bullshit. Especially the Soylent Green nonsense.
Classic Stupes.
What horse manure are you spouting now clueless wonder?
Gorton said it was the Dummocraptic Frank Church “Church committee in the 1970s”. So it was still Dummocraptic policy and “However, the “Gorelick Wall” barred anti-terror investigators from accessing the computer of Zacarias Moussaoui, the 20th hijacker, already in custody on an immigration violation.” – How do you continually skip over this fool!!!!!
Nuff SAID Sucka.
Fool the Soylent Green was a metaphor to old peeps not getting health care. Someday moron jo mama will need medical assistance, and the sucka you voted in will have implemented a rationing regimen which may inhibit her from getting something to keep her alive. You being the clueless wonder moron you are don’t know peeps in the upper echelon of health care who know what’s happening in the background.
Stay stupid so no one would want to change clueless wonder.
112 – Gorton said in the Moonie Times there was “no wall”.
Fool.
@103 Are you talking about this, Puddy?
@53 Troll spews: “Are you talking about the niggers beat Tubaman to death?”
@55 Puddy spews: “Troll@53, there are white ones too”
Oh yeah, show Troll some love there, Puddy. You two read like a couple of freaks from Stormfront. Perhaps you guys should post that shit there, and not here.
@113
Like private medical insurance doesn’t ration health care.
I believe we stupidly waste vast amounts of resources treating people who don’t have long to live. I saw this when I worked in a nursing home and I’ve seen it with members of my own family.
That said I’ve seen plenty of examples of the medical system being penny wise and pound foolish. If my stepfather had received proper treatment years ago he’d be in much better health now with a much higher quality of life. He did bring much of his poor health on himself, but still better treatment earlier on would have been cheaper in the long run.
clueless wonder: Gorton said: “”nothing Jamie Gorelick wrote had the slightest impact on the Department of Defense or its willingness or ability to share intelligence information with other intelligence agencies.” Gorton also asserted that “the wall” was a long-standing policy that had resulted from the Church committee in the 1970s”
Don’t change history now. You quoted Gorton not me fool!
Idiot @ 117
Gorton also said:
“Additionally, the assertion that the commission failed to report on this program to protect Ms. Gorelick is ridiculous. She had nothing to do with any “wall” between law enforcement and our intelligence agencies. The 1995 Department of Justice guidelines at issue were internal to the Justice Department and were not even sent to any other agency. The guidelines had no effect on the Department of Defense and certainly did not prohibit it from communicating with the FBI, the CIA or anyone else.”
Fool.
Moron yep he said it. He also said Frank Church Dummocraptic started the wall. Gorton said: “However, the “Gorelick Wall” barred anti-terror investigators from accessing the computer of Zacarias Moussaoui, the 20th hijacker, already in custody on an immigration violation.” You skip this on purpose while Puddy agrees with what you post. So Gorton contradicts himself.
Why do you skip and ignore what Gorton said which contradicts your points?
Why are you such a moron?
Why are you a clueless wonder?
Puddy @ 120 Spews:
Puddy fails to note that the wikipedia page on this subject has a “citation needed” annotation attached to that very sentence.
When quoting a sentence so tagged, Wikipedia notes:
The Puddy Parade of Partial Punditry strikes again.
Hey I used WikiPedia just like you HA weasels do. Sucks doesn’t it.
http://dont.stanford.edu/regulations/NewsConf.pdf
Darn wrong source. Clicked the wrong one…
Here is what Mary Jo White said.
“This is not an area where it is safe or prudent to build unnecessary walls or to compartmentalize our knowledge of any possible players, plans or activities,” wrote White, herself a Clinton appointee.
“The single biggest mistake we can make in attempting to combat terrorism is to insulate the criminal side of the house from the intelligence side of the house, unless such insulation is absolutely necessary. Excessive conservatism . . . can have deadly results.”
She added: “We must face the reality that the way we are proceeding now is inherently and in actuality very dangerous.”
Here is the http://www.usdoj.gov/archive//.....timony.htm
” “In the days before September 11, the wall specifically impeded the investigation into Zacarias Moussaoui, Khalid al-Midhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi. After the FBI arrested Moussaoui, agents became suspicious of his interest in commercial aircraft and sought approval for a criminal warrant to search his computer. The warrant was rejected because FBI officials feared breaching the wall.
“When the CIA finally told the FBI that al-Midhar and al-Hazmi were in the country in late August, agents in New York searched for the suspects. But because of the wall, FBI headquarters refused to allow criminal investigators who knew the most about the most recent al Qaeda attack to join the hunt for the suspected terrorists.
“At that time, a frustrated FBI investigator wrote headquarters, quote, ‘Whatever has happened to this — someday someone will die — and wall or not — the public will not understand why we were not more effective and throwing every resource we had at certain ‘problems.’ “
Here is the www . usdoj . gov / archive//ag/testimony/2004/041304terrorismtestimony . htm
” “In the days before September 11, the wall specifically impeded the investigation into Zacarias Moussaoui, Khalid al-Midhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi. After the FBI arrested Moussaoui, agents became suspicious of his interest in commercial aircraft and sought approval for a criminal warrant to search his computer. The warrant was rejected because FBI officials feared breaching the wall.
“When the CIA finally told the FBI that al-Midhar and al-Hazmi were in the country in late August, agents in New York searched for the suspects. But because of the wall, FBI headquarters refused to allow criminal investigators who knew the most about the most recent al Qaeda attack to join the hunt for the suspected terrorists.
“At that time, a frustrated FBI investigator wrote headquarters, quote, ‘Whatever has happened to this — someday someone will die — and wall or not — the public will not understand why we were not more effective and throwing every resource we had at certain ‘problems.’ “
Damn Akismet rejects DOJ web sites.
And clueless idiot here are Gorelick’s own words… March 4, 1995 memo
““We believe that it is prudent to establish a set of instructions that will more clearly separate the counterintelligence investigation from the more limited, but continued, criminal investigations. These procedures, which go beyond what is legally required, will prevent any risk of creating an unwarranted appearance that FISA is being used to avoid procedural safeguards which would apply in a criminal investigation” (emphases added)”
But clueless idiot rejected Senator Cornyn’s comments because they were in the WA Times…
http://www.washtimes.com/news/.....228-6538r/
“These documents show what we’ve said all along: Commissioner Gorelick has special knowledge of the facts and circumstances leading up to the erection and buttressing of ‘that wall’ that, before the enactment of the Patriot Act, was the primary obstacle to the sharing of communications between law enforcement and intelligence agencies.”
Hey clueless remember Michael Scheuer, sure you do msnbc . msn . com/id/9005619/
Well, we had—the question of whether or not we could have prevented the attacks is one you could debate forever. But we had at least eight to 10 chances to capture or kill Osama bin Laden in 1998 and 1999. And the government on all occasions decided that the information was not good enough to act. . . .
The U.S. intelligence community is palsied by lawyers.
“When we were going to capture Osama bin Laden, for example, the lawyers were more concerned with bin Laden‘s safety and his comfort than they were with the officers charged with capturing him. We had to build an ergonomically designed chair to put him in, special comfort in terms of how he was shackled into the chair. They even worried about what kind of tape to gag him with so it wouldn‘t irritate his beard. The lawyers are the bane of the intelligence community. . . . ”
en . wikipedia . org/wiki/Michael_Scheuer
Now, let’s go back and see what Don Joe referenced with citation needed. It was in Ashcroft’s testimony.
Puddy @ 129
First, I merely pointed out that when you quoted Wikipedia, you left out the part of the Wikipedia page that referenced the “citation needed” page. It was a deliberate omission on your part. This is undeniable at this point.
Second, if Ashcroft is your source for that idea, then you’ve just screwed the pooch, Puddy. That’s probably the reason that the Wikipedia page lacks a citation. The 9/11 Commission specifically states that Ashcroft’s testimony regarding the Gorelick memo was misleading (9/11 Commission Final Report, p. 539).
Ashcroft’s testimony also fails to mention a similar memo prepared by his own Deputy Attorney General that was similar to the Gorelick memo yet had further restrictions than the Gorelick memo.
As I said, the Puddy Parade of Partial Punditry marches inexorably forward. Why does Puddy never give all the relevant facts? Well, we know why. As a result, Puddy simply lacks all credibility whatsoever.
Don Joe: Puddy didn’t see the 9/11 document page referenced until today.