I suppose there might have been a legal strategy to Rossi attorney Dale Foreman’s hostile treatment of state Elections Director Nick Handy. Desperate to find more “illegal” votes to throw into their dubious proportional deduction calculations, the Republicans may be hoping to have the alleged 875-vote discrepancy in King County’s absentee ballots ruled as illegal votes.
But I see two problems with this strategy. 1) the Judge has already ruled that voter crediting could not be used as evidence, and 2) one could always verify whether there really is a discrepancy by counting the fucking envelopes.
The Republicans would prefer that the court set aside the election based on a statistical analysis of a supposition derived from a faulty crediting process. But if we really wanted to know if there really is a discrepancy we could always count the fucking envelopes.
It’s hard to see how the GOP argument flies.
Well maybe, just maybe, Way and her Boss could have had those F’n envelopes counted, instead of turning in an absolutely FALSE certification of the ballots! Director Nick Handy was claiming to be unbias in this case and he got caught royally by Foreman! It is good to see some of these election people getting their just due. They can’t run a damn election, but they can sure claim it was a a model for the country. A model of what? A model of slop!
Goldy-
Congratulations!
Handy really sealed the deal for the Dems…didn’t he?
Are you honestly saying Handy actually HELPED the Dems case?
Why didn’t the Dems just rest their case last week??
Frankly…they may have actually won.
But now…they had better hope Dean Logan is a decent witness who can lie with a straight face.
Handy was unbelievable.
He didn’t even know what Voter Crediting was until December of 2004!! And is the State Elections Director WITH NO FUCKING ELECTION EXPERIENCE! Who was the Dem mastermind who’s idea it was to call Handy?? I need to send her a box of ceegars!
Frankly…they may have actually won.
Duh. But there’s no harm in waiting for Republicans to bury themselves even further.
If Nick handy is Unbiased, Michael Jackson must have been framed as well.
But…… Dean Logan is on the stand today, wanna bet he’s looking for a job tomorrow?
So what if Handy is not impartial. So what if he was lying. The Repukelicans came short of proving either. But even if they did, how does that prove Rossi should have won. The statute is clear. The GOP has to show how the votes would have changed the outcome. They can’t do that so they are trying to beat up any innocent bystander they find to vent their frustration.
By the way Goldy, read today’s PI. Republicans hate Jews.
Goldy, thank you for the posting opportunities. We appreciate your “candor”.
Dave, you just don’t get it. Errors are one thing but conspiracy is another. Why do you think the judge sat up in his chair and intently listened to Nixon Handy? Did you see him looking at those emails and Nixon Handy? The look on Judge Bridge’s face was great. I think Goldy has to spin it as positive as possible because we be shocked with the democrapic defense. Jenny Durkan please continue your legal attack!!! If an illegal vote was somehow delivered into the till, well it must be legal now. I love that line of reasoning.
Pudster
As I noted elsewhere, Foreman is a nasty piece of work. He doesn’t get paid to be nice or ethical. The whole time he was acting out against bird-like Handy, Braden was sitting two rows back of the Republican table (odd in itself since he is always sitting AT the table), smiling, grinning hugely, nodding and bobbing his head in affirmation,m and thrusting his thumbs up. THAT was astonishing in itself, and probably not caught on camera. I suppose if he had been doing that while seated at the counsel table, he could have been tossed for contempt. These people are petulant, arrogant assholes. Handy is absolutely correct about what their motives are.
If someone says you and your people are frauds and you don’t think you are, how could anyone with an ounce of common sense alleg that that is a bias. Do you have to be neutral about your accusers acusation in order to be unbiased? Republicans have seen themselves as victims for so long they can not see things any other way. Don’t you think that’s kind of biased?
Oh, my! Such language, boys! Your mothers should get the soap and give your lips a good bath. Dean Logan is cute, but I don’t like that Rossi fellow. I don’t care for dark, swarthy, Italian looking men. They look like salesmen.
It is amazing the times we are living in … folks like Handy who simply demand to see proof of these wild allegations get accused of bias. The standard for bias apparently is to not blindly follow the GOP party line. Clap louder! Up is down! Black is white! If Karl Rove repeats it often enough, it becomes true! Even if it is plainly false.
Felix; You have it backwards; Handy should have found or checked out the wild allegations; that is, its his job to run an honest election, not ours….
This is a most interesting case. Errors,blunders and false
reporting but will that meet the standard that it is clear and
convincing we need a revote??? Stay tuned for another episode of
as the Ballots Turn. Who knows 130 more ballots may still be collecting dust in a box in the bowels of the King Co. Elections
Office. MyloJ
Hmm… don’t I remember something about absentee ballots and envelopes being seperated too early, and I have even heard something about envelopes being discarded rather than saved as law say they should be. Try again Goldy.
People that write private emails trying to circle the wagons for one party and create strategies to decieve the court on one hand should not turn around and represent themselves as unbiased to the judge. People that are so blind that they can believe ALL these events are just coincidences are the same people that believe Kerry actually won OH (where he lost by 125,000) and Gore actually won FL (where he never won a single recount and even recounts by the press after the fact confirmed that Bush won). What it proves is that demonic rats will accept any level of fraud as long as a rat wins, yet at the same time claim republican fraud even if the republicans win outright.
Kerry did win a recount by the press. Anyone who knows anything already knows that.
Please understand, from last Monday when Foreman ranted about fraud and ballot stuffing that he knew he could not prove, this trial stopped being about overthrowing the election. The GOP knows they don’t have the evidence, so they are just trying to burn as much earth as possible.
Hence why you have them accusing a Republican (Handy) of bias just because he spoke out against their PR campaign. It is really sad, when you think of it.
Having no case of fraud and no way to show that the illegal votes actually effected the election, they are stuck with the basic GOP play book, character assasination, character assasination, and, oh yeah, character assasination. Just wait for all the nasty things they say about Judge Bridges after he rules against them.
But to the wingnuts, that doesn’t mater. They would rather destroy so that they control than be bound by the truth. When all you have is name calling, it is your only real strategy.
I heard that counselor Foreman accused Handy of befing a closet heterosexual.
JDB’s right—Foreman’s attempt to discredit Handy as biased was just another part of their PR campaign. But Handy was an excellent, composed, clear-speaking witness, and came out smelling like a rose. He gave a cogent, powerful answer to the bias charge, calling the Republicans out on their endlessly false PR claims, the ones that disappeared prior to this case (when’s the last time you heard about sinister ballot enhancement/duplication? or military ballots not issued/not counted?). Handy saw that the Republicans were lying and tarnishing the reputation of the elections office with their wild allegations, and he wanted to discredit that. Handy—who has sided with the Republicans as often as the Democrats in this case, and who himself is a Republican (he’s run for office as a Republican)—took the Republicans’ bias charge and threw it back in their faces. It’s fair to say the Republicans’ attempt to discredit him backfired.
David; you gotta be in denial, or you saw a different version; that guy made Dean Logan look qualified (ha)
David, You and I disagree on many things but do you really believe what you just wrote? Handy sided with the democraps where? I see on the SoS web site Sam Reed pronouncements. Are you saying Handy Nick agrees with his boss? NOT! Didn’t Handy Nick say that the Nicole/Garth document was not appaulling? Doesn’t that disagree with his boss? Come on David, how can Handy Nick claim non-bias when he writes email to one side saying, here is how we discredit the other side. Sorry that dog doesn’t point or hunt!!! Yes, Dean what is the purpose of a provisional ballot? How come many of them invalid ones get pass you Dean. Yes, I have it on live right now!!!
Pudster
Righton, he did check out the wild allegations and found no evidence. No proof. No proof in November, no proof in the past 6 months, no proof presented in the GOP case last week. Only hysteria, hyperbole and Kirby Wilbur hyperventilating.
If Handy is biased, it is a bias in favor of empirical evidence. Thank goodness there are one or two ethical Republicans out there who refuse to check their brains at the door of the courthouse.
Itsasquak @ 14
“People that write private emails trying to circle the wagons for one party and create strategies to decieve the court on one hand should not turn around and represent themselves as unbiased to the judge.”
The SoS office has every right in the world to do everything legal to undermine the GOP case. The SoS is named as one of the parties being sued it this lawsuit, dummy!
But, the SoS office has decided not to fight the GOP; rather, they have take a neutral position, and one based on rational interpretations of the election laws. This position has resulted in many briefs filed that favor the GOP and many that do not favor the GOP. Go to the SoS web site and read the SoS briefs (especially the trial brief).
Oh. . . and you are mistaken that Handy was trying to “deceive the courts.” He said he was hoping to undermine one aspect of the GOP case—the use of voter crediting records as evidence in the case. That was based on legal reasons, not an overall position for or against the Republicans.
Felix;
The guy doesn’t know how to check it out. Never done this before (IN HIS ENTIRE LIFE) and evidence shows he never checked it out.
How come a handful of amateurs has done a better job of highlighting the errors than our paid professionals?
I doubt he even knows what empirical means btw
Righton–
My sentiments precisely…
Nixon Handy has ZERO Election experience.
He didn’t even know what voter crediting was until December for God’s sake!!
How in the world could anyone believe that Nixon Handy had the qualifications….or desire, to check out any Republican allegations. Let’s see Handy’s “Investigation File” of what precisely he checked out and found???
What Investigation File???
None exists…I guess it was one of those “Undocumented” serious and “unbiased” Nick Handy investigations.
What a joke!
Bridges has been around plenty long enough to know that the quacking he heard comes from a fucking duck!
“How come a handful of amateurs has done a better job of highlighting the errors than our paid professionals?”
Actually, the record shows that the amateurs have done an amateurish job . . . unless you measure things by how well you can stoke public opinion, never mind the facts.
Hey David these are Deans words a little paraphrased: “The 20 found ballots in the base unit(s) may have been put their later so we didn’t count them”. Wow, maybe some were put there before final count occured? Did some of those get fed through Accuvote incorrectly? Hmmm…
Pudster
David,
What facts did our paid staff uncover? That is, Logan, SOS Smith? vs what facts did SP.com and/or the trial uncover?
Was Mr Handy going to write an Op-Ed about how he was working behind the scenes to discredit one parties efforts?
did Logan disclose they allowed worked to take home ballots?
of course i could go on for about 10 great points.
Why aren’t you libs outraged we have a voting systme that not even the Ukraine would be jealous of?
I am looking forward to seeing the evidence the Republicans will present in this case that will prove … wait, didn’t they already rest? Were they expecting the Democrats to present their case for them? Where is this evidence I’ve been hearing so much about?
If you can type the exact number of legit absentee votes AND voters, you win.
Logan today on the stand did not know the number.
I can’t prove the cash was stolen, but it ain’t where I left it…
David, the NOvember 2004 error rate was significant – Dean Logan. But you AssesHorses keep saying the error rate was not significant in the election. What gives – either the Goldyites are wrong or Dean on the stand in sworn testimony is wrong. I think it’s the Golyite AssesHorses!!!
Pudster
PudDarrell @ 26:
Wait, you’re criticizing Logan for NOT counting ballots that were found later in an unsecure place? You’ve got to be kidding.
Star of David: Noooooo, I am saying that it is a good thing. I am saying that some of these strange provisional ballots admitted to by Dean Logan illegally made their way into the Accuvote machine How about the absentee ballots placed in the machines without verification – Dean Logan Hmmm…? Where is Brian Suits absentee ballot or others? THis is fun, Dean is admitting to a lot of stuff!!!
Pudster
BTW Star of David, why did you skip over #20 and #30? Because you have no answer for those wonderful Dean Logan admissions; contradictory for AssesHorses comments here about the same issues. Dean providing stability and elections trust in the KCEC. That’s funny
Pudster
It appears many of the posters aren’t watching the trial in Wenatchee, The fantasyland channel is NOT carrying the election debacle we are facing in our great state. No matter what happens in Wentachee, our Supreme Court will get the case and then, to be sure, The US Supreme Court will decide to hear the case. I do love it though when the Fecalcrats start eating their own.
Duane, The Pudster has it one right now on TVW. NCWN kept disappearing, and TVW keeps buffering. Democrapic lawyer regrilling Dean Logan, to make him smell better.
Star of David, U B Watchin? Dean is making our day!!! Goldy should be watching this testimony!!!
Pudster
Felix@28–
Uhhhhhhhhhh Felix..
If the R’s have done nothing to prove their case, then why in the hell are the Dems calling witnesses like Handy and Logan????
Why would the Dems keep the Election Contest going if they were convinced they had won. It’s like Carlson told Goldy yesterday…it’s like a salesman continuing to sell the customer AFTER the customer has said SOLD!! It makes no sense.
Bottom-line—YOU ARE FULL OF SHIT!
Hey Felix: Don’t you have two smarter brothers?
Pudster
david
we are critizing logan for going out of his way to get homeless ballots and after the election affadavits of signatures, but at the same time being the slowest slug on the planet in getting ballots out to the military.
You ever seen intentional food dragging bureaucrats? Make sure at 5pm you are out of their way, cuz when they want to move and accomplish stuff they can, when they don’t …watch out.
“one could always verify whether there really is a discrepancy by counting the fucking envelopes”
Goldy, I suggested exactly that to the GOP five months ago. I wish they had listened to my advice. I think that the voter crediting records are relevant and admissible evidence. But without additional supporting evidence (i.e. copies of the actual absentee ballot envelopes), they may not have sufficient weight to overturn the election.
Puddybud says “…Star of David:…”
So you see fit to respond to a substantive post with an implied anti-semitic crack? Go fuck yourself, pudboy.
Mr. X–
When confused, accuse folks like Pud of being homophobs, racists or anti-Semetic! Are you Jewish…or are you simply going out of your way to pretend to be offended?? And if you are Jewish, are you a JINO?
The Rabbi was praying to God one day for his only son who decided to become a Christian. “Why God, why does my only some have to become a Christian?? WHY?
God responds, “You know Rabbi, I had the same problem!”
Comment on 38
I see that Wrongo is trotting out the old, discarded, discredited, military ballot bullshit again. Today must be Recycling Day. All the military ballots were mailed on time, dumbshit. Lest we forget …
King County issued 15,289 military and overseas ballots.
12,694 of these ballots were returned, an 83% turnout rate, which is in the same ballpark as the state as a whole.
12,474 of these ballots were validated and counted.
Only 16 of the military and overseas ballots were rejected because they were received TOO LATE. There is no way of knowing how many of these ballots were military, but we know that NO MORE than 16 of 15,289 ballots returned past the counting deadline and it is possible NONE of these were military ballots.
The argument that military votes weren’t counted because they didn’t get their ballots in time is a LIE AND A MYTH.
Source: http://www.metrokc.gov/electio....._01_05.htm
By the way, the GOP attorneys didn’t even bother to argue in court that military voters were disenfranchised BECAUSE IT ISN’T TRUE yet the trolls keep repeating this same tired old lie.
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, the most likely reason for the 16 ballots coming back late is because those voters PROCRASTINATED in mailing their ballots. Since the last batch of military and overseas ballots were mailed on Oct. 8 and were counted if recieved by Nov. 16, they had AT LEAST 5 weeks to get their ballots, mark them, and mail them. Military voters didn’t even need a stamp. In fact, they didn’t even need a ballot. All they had to do was ask their unit’s Voting Assistance Officer for a Federal Write In Ballot. They didn’t even need to know who the Republican candidate was. All they had to do was write “R” next to governor on the FWIB.
But don’t confuse a wrongnut troll with FACTS. They can’t deal with FACTS.
Cynical said “…Mr. X–
When confused, accuse folks like Pud of being homophobs, racists or anti-Semetic! Are you Jewish…or are you simply going out of your way to pretend to be offended?? And if you are Jewish, are you a JINO?”
Comment by Mr. Cynical — 6/1/05 @ 3:56 pm
Well, thanks for proving my point. First off, I am in fact 1/2 ethnically Jewish (Mostly Russian and Lithuanian, along with 1/4 Irish/English and 1/4 Italian – not that it matters).
Pud called a guy “Star of David” in the process of insulting him. How else is one to interpret this but as an anti-semitic slur? Oh, that’s right, when right-wing hatemongers get called out (Coulter, et al leap to mind here) they get all persecuted and say they were joking. Well, you know what? FUCK YOU. Calling him “Star of David” has only ONE meaning, as Pud surely didn’t bring out the old blood libel by accident, and even you ought to get that.
As for accusing me of being a JINO, (which is I suppose is related to the current fundie practice of calling progressive Christians who think that peace and justice are more important than abortion and gay marriange “Christian In Name Only”) well, if Hitler would have exterminated you, you don’t have to be a practicing member of the faith (which, in fact, I’m not) to call someone out on anti-Semitism.
No, Cynical, I really am offended, and frankly would happily kick Mr. Pud’s sorry stupid anti-semitic ass is he weren’t hiding behind the anonymity of the web.
…oops, make that “is” an “if”.
Mr. X–
Ummmmm…get a life dude.
Being “perpetually offended” by small stuff like that will make you all constipated up. I have a lot of Jewish friends…who by the way tell the best Jewish jokes….just like gays tell the best gay jokes.
I’ll bet you were the one person in the whole world who hated Don Rickles growing up. That dude offended every race, religion and ethnicity….
X., I really worry about you acquiring a bad case of chronic constipation sweatin’ all the small stuff. Tomorrow is a new day!
Mr. Cynical is not exactly a Righteous Person, is he?
BTW, Cynical, before you post some angry reply, I’m just stuffing your outrageous remarks right back in your face. No, I’m not Jewish (I have friends who are, and I’d be proud to count Goldy, among others, as a friend) but I’m horrified by what happened to the Jews — and to make light of it in the manner you do, is beyond offensive, it’s appalling.
Look it here, my family on my mother’s side is Jewish you twits. I found out I was part Jewish when I met an aunt in Philadelphia in 1976. So how can I be anti-semitic if I am part Semitic? What a bunch of dumb asses. David has insulted me with just about called me every name in the book. Shall I search this blog and pull each wonderful name up?
Mr X. I ain’t afraid of you. Where shall we meet? I have my keys in hand. I’ll put my sneakers on in 30 seconds. When you meet me YOU WILL BE IN FOR A SHOCK, cuz I ain’t some little pushover. Name and town, name and town.
Pudster
And BTW I have been to Europe and the gulags and concentration camps in Northern Germany and Poland were a horrendous sight. Have you been there Mr. X. Have you seen the memorials to teh holocaust Mr. X? But does my side call people Nazis? No your friends do Mr. X.
¡Cállese la boca si usted puede decir algo que vale la pena!
Shut up your mouth if you can say anything worthwhile!
Nuff SAID!!!!
Pudster
Felix, yo estoy seguro que yo le sé y sus hermanos como nosotros utilizamos para trabajar juntos tiempo atrás en una compañía en Everett. ¿De hecho sea no numera a dos hermano acerca de casarse a una dama muy agradable de Tejas pronto?
Pudster
Puddy boy,
I’m not broadcasting my personal infomation, but I’ll meet your sorry ass in person.
How about Red Square on the UW Campus? Any time this week after 9 PM. Hell, I’ll cancel tonite’s meeting if it’s the only day you have open.
I can’t wait, troll. Hell, I’ll even apologize if you’re really Jewish, which I somehow doubt. “Star of David” – right.
BTW, I haven’t been to any concentration camps, yet, but did go to the Jewish Museum in Berlin when I was there is 2003 (and the Holocaust Memorial in Boston, for that matter). My brother and sister have been to most of them, though. So, once again, go fuck yourself
BTW, David, if you’re still here – did that crack seem as anti-Semitic to you as it did to me?
Mr X
Is progressive what we all call Liberal? except its politically correct to self name yoursleves progressive?
I’m betting you never knew the word till about a year ago when you all changed names.
Cynical,
Upon reflection, your post at 46 wasn’t all wet. I shouldn’t let you nutjobs get my goat – no matter how dumb you are!
So Mr. X him calling me names and telling me that I don’t know when the Sannath starts is okay with you but when he flaunts his heritage and how he studied with the Israeli supreme court justice I am supposed to be impressed? You all said it was open season on name calling and whatever. Awww, Did Mr. Elmer X. Fudd get his feelings hurt.
Red Square, no I ain’t no dummy. Let’s make it Rainier Valley so I won’t be jumped by your UW friends. I like it down there since I grew up on the east coast in the inner city of Philadelphia! I can call the SPD to make sure no one messes with us. And yes I am part Jewish. When you see my face it will be readily apparent. No I can’t make it tonight as it’s not enough time, but how about Sunday afternoon in broad daylight. I want a big crowd there. How about Martin Luther King Way & South Graham St?
Good for you seeing the Berlin museum. I’ll be in Boston in July, so I’ll see that museum. Go see the museum in Melbourne if you ever make it to Australia. Nice city especially where the grand prix is run. Go to Amsterdam and see the Anne Frank house, after you visit the red light district.
Pudster
Sorry that’s Sabbath not Sannath.
Pudster
The location is fine, but broad daylight is a bad idea Pud, I don’t want any interruptions.
Puddy.
Take him to a Dunkin Donuts, a Applebees, a Marie Calendars. Show him how the broad american middle class lives. It ain’t all Fremont out there.
What, so you can hide your friends in the bushes, trash cans, etc.? No I don’t think so. Broad daylight, I’ll bring the kids too. I am not worried about fightus interruptus. I’ll call some retired Army Rangers, reservists and vet buddies from the Renton barracks. I need someone to watch my back for sneak attacks.
Righton, I have never been to Fremont in the 13 years of being here. It must be a class place as you continue to mention it.
So Sunday afternoon it is. What color car shall I be looking out for? Are you coming alone or are you bringing an Entourage? How many vets will I need to call to make it even? When they hear of a lefty wanting to fight I am sure they will want to see this.
Patrick, you and righton want to watch, being ex-military too.
HUA,
Pudster
Sorry, fella, but I ain’t goin to jail on your account. Darkness, mano y mano and no cops or nothing…
Right On-
Progressives think most of the Democratic Party is too conservative, and that people like you are way the hell out there on the far right wing of the political spectrum. What you call the liberal media, we call the corporate media – and we call Fox News overt right wing propaganda. Does that help any?
Puddy-
Whatever you do, DON’T agree to meet X at his favorite gay bathhouse! I’ve heard those dudes look like ladies…and fight dirty (lots of pinching and slapping).
…and Cynical pipes in with the homophobia. The hits just keep coming…
Homophobic? Hell, I just don’t want to see poor Puddy get pinched to death by your asshole buddies,
….ok, that last one was kind of funny – not accurate, but funny….
…of course, before you get all comfortable in your stereotypes, you should remember that Micael Painter (sic?) was kicking the would-be gay bashers ass until two of his buddies jumped in and he got slashed repeatedly with a broken bottle…
X–
For God’s sake…get off the soapbox of your concern for persecuted Jews and bashed gays!!
You actually have made some reasonable comments in the past…but are getting way to uptight about this political correct stuff. You will be wound up so tight tonite you’ll never sleep!
Hell, your so tight it will take a John Deere Tractor to pull a pin out of your ass.
LIGHTEN UP!
Pud
Fremont is a euphemism for weak kneed Dems more interested in free range chicken and organic produce and Mayan fair harvest coffee than with high taxes, bad freeways, and muslims making jihad against us.
Syn. w/ Berkely, Wallingford, Montlake, Madrona, you name the place. Spot where Danny Westneat or Susan Paynter or their ilk might hang out. Not to be confused with Renton or Everett or Marysville or North Bend.
MOre likely to be reading the Stranger than the WSJ. More likely to be Buddhist than Catholic. More likely to have hyphenated name (like those people in the Pacific magazine home features, always some hybphenated name couple living in a bungalow near Capitol Hill or Wallingford)
Have a peaceful night, Cynical! Red meat for everyone!
Righton–
Fremont also means–
1) Razorless woman
2) Hairy-legged broads
3) Latch-key kids
4) Nuclear-free zone
5) Stalin rules!!!!
6) Free-range TOFU
7) ELF Headquarters
8) A bunch of FUCKING IDIOTS!
Hey Mr. X: Now you know why I didn’t accept Red Square. Who knows what is going on down there.
I do not subscribe to any hate crimes. That stuff is dead wrong. But I also don’t subscribe to manufactured hatred. I feel any hate crime, from the KKK to gay bashing the perps should be hung by their balls. It is amazing to see how much the human body stretches.
Cynical is funny. But as I said, broad daylight where I can see 360 or not. Sorry you decline. I haven’t participated in a fight in a long time. I was going to do my yoga stretches to get the muscles active again. I would be the one arrested as I would say I was fighting a liberal. SPD would say what and take me to the pokey. It would be worth it though.
Regarding Fox News. Why is it popular? Dan Rather and CBS and his leanings, Peter Jennings and his statements on ABC, NBC news with Couric, Brokaw, etc. PBS with Lehrer is somewhat neutral, but NPR is free Liberal Radio. So what do conservative have to turn to? Fox News. But you liberals can’t admit that the MSM is liberal. So as Fox News goes up in popularity, people here on HA get upset. What about conservative radio? Same thing happened. People have no outlet for their discussions. Well that’s news demographics.
Pudster
We seem to be working at cross purposes – you want to get arrested, and I want to kick your ass without getting arrested (and if you think Seattle cops are liberal you’re most definitely wrong – and I’d be surprised if 30% of them actually live in the city)
Glad to see that you can at least acknowledge that PBS with Lehrer is somewhat neutral, and that Fox viewers tune in to hear news they agree with. There may yet be hope for you.
Or not.
Well dude if you want to kick my ass, you’ll do it on my terms.
Regarding MS News, you don’t listen to CBS, NBC or ABC, CNN? We at least will listen to NBC, the least of the three. We listen to Fox for the Hannity/Colmes debates. Unfornately Alan needs help.
Pudster
Dear dem/liberal/progressive numbnuts in general,
Please note: You belong to the party of the Democrats NOT, I reapeat, NOT the DEMOCRATIC party.
Not one of you can manage to get it correct.
They taught us in political science that those were the small d democrats, not shouted ones shouted in capital letters. Ignorant, and it has poor netiquette.
Just wanted to clarify.
puttybutt @ 50 says, “But does my side call people Nazis?”
No, but you call people “commies.” Have you been to Siberia to see the gulags? Or to Gitmo to see the American gulag and how your side (not our side, i.e., American liberals) treats inmates (some of whom likely are innocent)?
So puttybutt is this Sunday thing on or not? What time? I don’t need to know a car color, I’ll just look out for the ugliest troll in Seattle. As I understand the arrangements, I’m only supposed to be a witness, but in any case, I don’t need a gaggle of Army Rangers to cover my butt. Sorry you feel you do. Here this might help:
http://www.fotosearch.com/bigc.....234013.jpg
Well, will you look at what’s been going on here.
Puddybud referred to me as “Star of David,” and Mr. X objected to it as an “implied anti-semitic crack.” And then the insults flew. Oy vey.
I have mixed feelings about the “Star of David” label; on the one hand, I’m Jewish and proud of that, and the Star of David (Magen David) is a proud Jewish symbol (e.g., on the Israeli flag). [And hey, it’s got my name in it.]
On the other hand, the Star of David was also used on the yellow armbands that Europe’s Jews were forced to wear before their genocide, and is used by anti-Semites who spray-paint slurs against the Jews today; and I don’t think Puddybud (Darrell) was intending the moniker as a compliment.
The difference is whether Jews are employing the Star of David for themselves, or others are using the Star of David antagonistically to label Jews.
So:
Mr. X ( @ 53): No, his crack didn’t seem quite as anti-Semitic to me as it did to you; I’ve been called worse. But it didn’t seem innocent, either.
Puddybud: Calling me “Star of David” is a lot like calling me “Jew-boy.” That’s not going to earn you any points, especially in a non-religious discussion thread where I haven’t brought it up and it isn’t relevant.
Oh, and PudDarrell, drop the “he called me names first!” crap. 1.: It’s whiny. 2.: It’s not true.
You wrote @ 49: “David has insulted me with just about called me every name in the book. Shall I search this blog and pull each wonderful name up?”
Yes, you should do that, because you’re going to have to admit that I have not called you “every name in the book,” not remotely. What names have I called you? (I know I called you a “blowhard” recently, and a “revisionist wannabe Talmudic scholar,” but in context those were descriptive, not name-calling ;-) )
And @ 56: “him calling me names and telling me that I don’t know when the [Sabbath] starts is okay with you…”
Point of clarification: you didn’t know when the Sabbath starts—and in fact made a ridiculously false guess (“6:00 PM”)—despite putting yourself out as an expert. Hoist by your own petard, you were.
“…but when he flaunts his heritage and how he studied with the Israeli supreme court justice I am supposed to be impressed?”
Not exactly; when you challenge my knowledge of my own faith, and I provide evidence that (unlike you) I know what I am talking about, you are supposed to admit you were wrong. Even if only to yourself.
And coming back to the original issue: I explained why I had knowledge about the Sabbath question; I did not “flaunt [my] heritage” to you. Don’t you try to flaunt it back at me.
Whoops, I meant to do that as two separate posts.
Mr. Cynical @ 41: Your joke has one serious flaw: God would have to be lying.
(Jesus was not a Christian. Also not the son of God, but I’ll let it slide.)
PudDarrell @ 72: “Regarding Fox News. Why is it popular? Dan Rather and CBS and his leanings, Peter Jennings and his statements on ABC, NBC news with Couric, Brokaw, etc. PBS with Lehrer is somewhat neutral, but NPR is free Liberal Radio. So what do conservative have to turn to? Fox News.”
A rational observer might also conclude that the mainstream media is not biased, which then leaves many conservative viewers/listeners unhappy; they have to go to Fox and right-wing talk radio to be told the things that they want to hear.
Incidentally, every credible study of NPR I’ve heard about has indicated that it’s not liberally biased. Morning Edition? Nope. All Things Considered? Uh-uh. Car Talk? I don’t think so. St. Paul Sunday? You’ve gotta be kidding. Marketplace? Hmm… (N.B.: If a station decides to carry a touchy-feely show like Life on Earth instead of hard-nosed Marketplace, or vice versa, that’s a local programming decision that has to satisfy the local audience.)
David; up too late to make sense. Everbody knows the whole bunch of public radio (chanel 9, 94.9, 88.5 and all their parent and sister orgs are full blown liberal…that is, what they send out on the airwaves is chiefly liberal. Rick Steves gives his little digs against capitalism, Bill Moyer is left wing, and i start to lose my examples cuz i don’t listen that often. (yeah, so how do i know…)
Try this, tell me all the mainstream libs and dems complaining that its too conservative, then maybe we can lay down our arguments. But you can’t, except i guess some Green party types that hate anything. Why are libs yelling about how conservative it is
We’ve outed it as the propaganda arm of the dem party.
David, if the MSM is neutral, I already posted WA Post and NY Slimes articles where over 80% of the MSM vote democrapic in national elections? I guess I need to find them again?
I fully apologize for the Star of David remark. Yes it was over the pale.
My lineage is from the Becketts of Cherry Hill, NJ, who move there from Louisiana, who intermarried in the late 1800’s, Jewish, German, Irish, and Greek. I am from Philadelphia. Momma worked with C. Everett Koop at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia. I know where I came from, but I wonder about some of you!
Patrick: Nah the color is wrong in the picture. No, the Rangers and Vets are for all the UW crowd that would show up there. I don’t want :
1. reprisal attacks
2. Someone on their hands and knees behind me so I fall over them when moving for position.
3.) Sneak attacks from the back. Most college buddies do that for their “friends”
But then when a whole bunch of college kids show up in the Rainier Valley, the locals will wonder why are they here. I suggest 3:00 in the afternoon. Ugly, not hardly, but then again your tastes may vary.
Mr. X says mano -y- mano, but I don’t trust him.
Pudster
David@81–
We can agree to disagree on matters of faith….just like on matters of politics, media etc. Some of my best friends for over 30 years and I disagree about some of these issues. We just don’t wear each other out talking about them and rehashing the hash all the time. Instead, we play golf together, going fishing together, do community projects together, have dinner together etc. etc.
Think of me what you will….I could give a damn really.
I have always REFUSED to isolate myself with only friendships with like-minded people.
Can you honestly say the same??
One key to my friendships with people I disagree with on matters of politics, religion and other deeply held beliefs is that all of my different minded friends and I have a sense of humor. We can tease each other mercilessly. I have heard more Christian-bashing, Bush-bashing jokes than you can image….
I can take it….I can deliver.
David…you and a lot of these LEFTIST PINHEADS would not be on my list of folks to befriend mainly because you are oh so serious and oh so self-righteous. YOU HAVE NO FUCKING SENSE OF HUMOR and take everything as a personal insult. LIGHTEN UP!!
LAUGH AT YOURSELF A LITTLE!!!
The ability to laugh at yourself and not sweat the small stuff is a great attribute. The ability to befriend…I mean serious friendships with people who look at things very differently is a blessing.
I’m sure some of you folks have already prejudged Mr. Cynical as PRETENTIOUS.
The downside of me being better than everyone else is that folks tend to assume I’m pretentious!!!
Mr. Cynical, I appreciate your humor but must disagree with your views, because if I agreed with you, we’d both be wrong!
thatPrick–
I do like that line…and will plagarize it from time to time.
As you know thatPrick…I am always RIGHT!
And most of the time I’m CORRECT too!
Actually, I’m always right….it’s just sometimes I’m more right than others!
Cynical @ 85, 86: wow, two posts about one tease about one joke. Sounds like you almost took a bit of good-natured ribbing too seriously. (saved it with the ‘pretentious’ bit)
“The ability to befriend…I mean serious friendships with people who look at things very differently is a blessing.”
Then I, too, am blessed.
“all of my different minded friends and I have a sense of humor. We can tease each other mercilessly.”
And if Puddy were a good friend of mine, I’d take it that way.
Mr. C. @ 88, 89: LOL :-)
Puddy @ 84: Apology accepted.
Cynical, some of my best Sabbath afternoon conversations around my dinner table is with people who DISAGREE with me. Why? I like to hear their opinions and they know upon entering my doorway to my house they leave stuffed. They also like to disagree with me so we have a lively conversations. Lawyers, doctors, financial analysts, engineers, landscapers, Alaska deep sea fishermen, etc. Our wives leave us as they say this is getting too deep and they don’t like to discuss politics on the Sabbath. There have been many a day that I’ve had 10 or more cars parked in the driveway or out front on the street because people like coming over. They know I will bring up a contentious topic and we will hash it out, probably still disagreeing but we will hug each other and plan the next Sabbath dinner.
Could I do that with people here? Maybe two at the most. The rest want to strangle all dissent, then say our government wants to do that? Well why did Hilary have dem FBI files on prominent people in private and govment life? Hmmm…? I would like to meet donnageddon. Have her sit at my table and eat my food, I doubt it. I would offer Goldy a sit down and try to comprehend his politics. I would need some friends from Seattle to interpret his comments for me.
One of the reasons I stressed to my older son the take AP US and World History high school classes is to give him and understanding of why people do what they do, so when he gets his law degree he can understand the argument better. If you haven’t walked a mile in my shoes how can you judge me? Yet many of you try to do that every day here.
Pudster
David, thanks. Lets meet at Starbucks sometime. North end one, less of a drive for me.
אני לפעמים נעשה הבאתי הלאה עם התקפות אישיות ואני בטעות גם זה עליך. נא לסלוח לי. יום טוב!
I hope that is right! The font used here is not that great for Hebrew!
Pudster
Um, that Hebrew doesn’t make sense. Sorry.
Hint: Yom Tov (??? ???, lit. ‘good day’) is a noun phrase that means “holiday” or “festival day.” It does not translate as the greeting, “Good day (to you)!”
That’s what you get for relying on a machine translation, Puddy.
(trying again with proper HTML character entities:)
Hint: Yom Tov (יום טוב, lit. ‘good day’) is a noun phrase that means “holiday” or “festival day.” It does not translate as the greeting, “Good day (to you)!”
That’s what you get for relying on a machine translation, Puddy.