Republicans are horrified at the thought of the government being involved in your health care. Unless you’re a woman of child-bearing age, or use a non-traditional medicine or face a terminal illness, of course.
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Govt healthcare – All the compassion of the IRS with the competence of the Post office.
No thanks.
Ever lived on an Indian Reservation? if so then we can talk about government healthcare.
Got family on Medicare?
From the people who brought you the DMV, we are proud to present state run health care!
I will say that should carrying health insurance be mandated by law in this country on that day I will drop my policy. It is no-ones business but mine.
All of the folks so keen to see socialized medicine should try living somewhere it’s in place. More to the point, you should try paying taxes somewhere it is in place. A friend in Europe closed her store at the airport 3 years ago due to security changes. She still pays for the health care of her employee, her husband and their baby to this day.
Between card check, idiotic beauracracy, and now socialized medicine the left really wants to decimate business in this country!
Oh, but Mr Obama says that the trillion dollar cost won’t actually cost anything. Nope, covering 30 million more people won’t add a dime to the cost of health care. Not one cent, apparently. It must be progressive magic…or something.
The health care debate isn’t about healthcare –
it’s about power. Those who are the most adament about single-payer, at bottom, want it because it will result in massive government control over intimate details of our lives. Marxian utopia, that.
It’s almost ridiculous to debate the merits of it since no matter how bad single-payer will be, that’s irrelevent to the point: control.
But just look at the charts here. Wouldn’t you want to emulate the system where more people survive cancer than the one that’s not even close?
Increasingly, Americans across the political spectrum (save, of course, the hard and flat-earth uber leftists as personified by the HA Happy Hooligans) are expressing serious reservations about such massive and EXPENSIVE proposals.
Yet all DeVore has to offer is a pathetic blame-the-Republicans dirty diaper to throw into the debate. With a commanding majority in the US House, a filibuster-proof majority in the US Senate, you would think that if this whole deal is so hot-to-go that it would cruise through Congress like you-know-what through the goose.
This is symptomatic of the pathology of the left: a blatant refusal to accept the paucity of its ideas and strategies.
Face it, comrades, this isn’t an idea whose time is at hand. The less-apoplectic members of the Democratic Party are baking away from it, there is confusion within the leadership of the party, and President Obama’s infomercial attempts (the ABC fiasco and this week’s very flat press conference that is now dominated by Obama’s ill-advised gaffes about the Cambridge arrest) have driven approval numbers down, not up.
There’s political blood in the water, and the sharks are moving in…
The Piper
The right wing’s stock in trade are LIES and FEAR.
That disgusting chimp that shuffled off last Jan talked about “the culture of life” – the most egregious LIE ever to fly from his mouth. He brought little but mass death to Iraq. The Schiavo fiasco was about preserving a near dead body as a trophy for the right wing’s degenerate political agenda.
And now we see the latest wannabe acolyte of the right wing LYING even more. Notice he avoids mentioning the utter failure of the marketplace to control spiraling healthcare costs and cover everyone. But the greatest failure is for those who the status quo pretends to cover – people who lose everything when they become ill all for the unfathomable, unhinged greed of insurance executive paydays.
To add to the ugliness even MORE the fiend @ 5 nails it perfectly FOR HIS SIDE. It’s all about control. As the execrable Jim DeMint made too clear this is all about defeating Barack Obama’s presidency – not a whit about solving the problems of the ordinary American citizen.
For the right wing government exists to help only the well-connected greedhead Republican party contributor.
What a bunch of fear-driven right wing tools in this thread!
Clearly, the low-government states that allow any kind of health insurance to be sold in a private free enterprise market, with no government regulation, are the best. This includes places like Somalia and Upper Wajiristan.
Meanwhile, the high-government states that have socialized medicine and the high taxes to pay for it, are all abject failures, going bankrupt, and just the kind of places you’d never send your 20 year old to go visit. This includes Norway Sweden Finland UK France Germany Canada Australia NZ Ireland Denmark Austria and so on. My god, anyone can see what utter failures those societies are….their gdp per capita is spiraling down….their poverty is used by the liberals to eliminate free elections, and take away all guns….they have gulags and reeducation camps everywhere….the’ve rounded up all the conservatives, that’s why no conservative can win elections any more, that’s why there is no conservative party active any more in places like England or France……didn’t you hear? They had an election in England yestserday and of course the Labor communist won, because there’s no more free elections!
Anyhoo, it’s the liberals inability to see these plain facts, their blatant lies and deceptions, that’s at the roof of their depraved evil. Imagine! They go around saying look at all these countries, they work pretty good, when in fact they’re all hellholes of desperation, poverty, no food, no water, gulags and warlords!! That’s the liberals PLAN, don’t you see!!!!
And meanwhile the freemarket systems with no government like Somalia are prospering just like our theory says!
7 – Don’t forget that “Marxist” paradise Japan.
Gee we should boycott Canadian oil – that’ll teach those Marxist control freaks up there.
@6…YippeeLilBoy…
Do you do a cut-and-paste of HuffPo, MoveOn, and DailyKus cliches? It’s obvious you don’t think.
If the healthcare policy the candidate you probably supported for president – who has a commanding majority in both houses of Congress – can’t get any better traction than it has currently, whose fault is that?
You refuse to look in the mirror and take responsibility. All you do is wave more bloody-shirt rhetorical corpses in the mad hope that…Well, let’s just say it’s impossible to know what you hope for since to hope is to exhibit rational thought and an ethical sense of the future.
Could it be that your knee-jerk analysis and lock-step and thought-less sophistry are simply wrong? Have you ever considered that? Or will you proceed, lemming-like, to march over the cliff completely clueless as to why?
I do feel sorry for you…
The Piper
9 – HOW FREAKING STUPID ARE YOU? Or is the plain reality is that you’re just bought and paid for? Where’s your party’s plan Pooper? The fiends who sign your paycheck have no plan except for the status quo.
I mean you really expect people to take your understanding of politics seriously?? Just sprinkle a little “Marxist” epithet to drown any progress? Truly deep “thinking” there.
It’s all about the MONEY isn’t it? Well ordinary Americans may not have that much money – the middle class hasn’t had an inflation-adjusted wage increase for over 30 years but we have votes as demonstrated last November. Votes that OVERWHELMED the vote supression machinery brought to bear in Indiana, Florida and other states. Votes that can and WILL make blue dogs PAY for being willful tools of the status quo.
Something you’re only TOO PROUD to be.
Pay no attention to YLB, Piper; he is a typical gov’t mooch and pays no taxes, nor works, but for some reason still thinks his opinion matters at all. “Free” gov’t healthcare to him, or the very idea of it, is an apetizing idea as a matter of course. It’s real easy to think you can decide how our tax dollars are spent when you don’t pay taxes to begin with, no? Take, take, take, but never give. How pathetic, but unfortunately common of people like YLB.
Of course, disgruntled little Mr. DeVore has the typical knee-jerk reaction of the rabid left and blames the oppostion totally on the GOP. Little does he know that there are many Dems. in both the House and Senate who disagree with Obamacare. Another poor, blind, dumb sheep who can’t think for himself. Ooooobbbbbaaammmaaaa!!
‘The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money’ -Thatcher
@10…YippeeLilBoy…
I’m not the one complaining – you are. And the issue is healthcare not alleged, but unproven and illusory, vote suppression. Really, as a debater, you are quite silly.
You still refuse to acknowledge the truth of the matter that, as of today, support for the President’s healthcare proposals is in decline because THE PEOPLE increasingly don’t like what they see.
Use all the juvenile “willful tools” rhetoric you like, but that doesn’t change the reality of the situation. And threatening the Blue Dogs won’t change matters either.
The Piper
Moron @ 11
Here’s a picture of the status quo.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/3.....otostream/
Featured at a little community sponsored health care event. Sprinkle your marxist epithets at the “socialists” who organized it. Examine the adjoining photos for more “socialism” if it doesn’t make you too queasy.
Obviously the event wouldn’t have been needed if the poor folks just had faith in the “free market” or the status quo, what have you.
Let us not forget that free government healthcare that veterans get.
Obama is putting the Rx back in maRxism
12 – You love kicking your own ass don’t you?
You’ve brought NOTHING but juvenilia here since the beginning. Being a cover to cover fanboy of National Review may carry you to EFF but it won’t get you much farther.
Sorry Scott Rassmussen has just been supplying your echo chamber.
Cancer survival rates are nice but not at the expense of egregious insurance executive payouts which flow on a machinery of profit from too much needless and redundant care that DOES NOT improve outcome. I sense a dishonest rhetorical tactic here.
The word on the street is that 20 percent insurance premium hikes are on the horizon after this little health care “scare” in DC dies down. That will be the insurance industry’s “due” after it is proven by DC Lobbyists and their tools in Congress that people don’t matter.
Smart enough to be able to earn a good living.
How’s the job search going for you?
What’s your plan, Piper, other than spewing your inferiority complex across the blogosphere? After all, Piper, you never offer up ideas. You come here with the simple intent of tearing down others in a pathetic attempt to build up your own failing sense of self-worth. And you say you’re a better man than me. News Flash, Piper. You’re not.
When teddy kennedy with all his money wanted treatment for his brain cancer, what country did he go to.
Actions speak louder than words.
@13…YippeeLilBoy…
What? A photo of extracted teeth and dental equipment?
Face it…you’re on the losing end of this one, so ‘fess up and admit it.
The Piper
Oh great the cancer survival study comes from a right wing stink tank.
Funding from all the usual suspects. Bradley, Olin, Scaife, Koch, etc..
Great world you’re living in there at EFF Pooper. Nice life in the bubble.
So in your opinion more people dying of cancer is better than an executive making $$?
OUCH!!!!
God forbid your child gets cancer and you allow him/her to die instead of letting some executive profit off of the saving the life of your kid.
@18…S…
I need a plan because you have one? What if I’m content with my health care coverage (high deductible major medical combined with a medical savings account that’s growing handsomely)and don’t want it messed with?
And my self-worth isn’t dependent upon your approval – quite the contrary. The more you mock and scorn, the better I feel.
The Piper
1. Remove the government restrictions on buying health insurance out of the state you live in.
2. Allow a pick & choose type health plan. For example… because of my age and my level of physical fitness, except for an unforeseen accident (car accident, etc.) I don’t need much healthcare yet. My gene pool does says I will need glasses in another decade, and I might want to get hairplugs besides other health issues from an aging body. As a single male, I am pretty confident that I won’t be using hospital resources to give birth to a baby. When I get married and want to have a baby, then I will choose that option and pay for it.
3. The people that make bad health decisions (weight, cigarettes, alcohol, drugs, etc) should pay more. Exactly how bad drivers pay more for car insurance.
4. Use the texas method of malpractice lawsuits. Before a lawsuit can be filed, an eight person panel (2 doctors, 2 lawyers, 2 business people, 2 citizens) convenes to determine if a malpractice lawsuit has any merit. Of course doctors/hospitals make mistakes and people should be made whole when they do. Currently, every malpractice suit regardless of outcome (even if the case is laughed out of court for being so ridiculous) goes into a federal database of malpractice suits. Just like tickets on a driving record, those suits raise the cost of malpractice insurance. My future father in law doctor explained how this has hurt him. It’s common practice for lawyers to include any and every one that was involved in the care of the patient no matter how little he did. He told about being called in to advise on a case of a heart transplant, the patient has arthritis (his field of practice) and the primary doctor (surgeon) wanted to know if the patients arthritis would have any effect on the surgery. The doctor screwed up the operation. The lawyer for family of the patient included everyone, including the nurse that checked the patient into the hospital on the lawsuit. Of course the judge decided that all but one named on the lawsuit were not responsible, but because of the lawyer my father in law continues to pay higher insurance premiums today.
22 – I’ll take cancer survival rates AND everyone being covered.
And if a person gets sick and survives? I’ll take her not losing everything and being in debt slavery for remainder of her shortened life.
Thank you.
Have you seen some of these payouts?
LOL! Hardly… Always handing out orders are you?
You a big Billo fanboy Pooper?
You allege that Piper has an inferiority complex, and failing self-worth yet YOU accuse him of simple intent of tearing down others.
I see you didn’t offer any plan. Why is that?
@21…YippeeLilBoy…
Show me data that holds to the contrary.
How many Americans go to Canada, Britain or any socialized-medicine country for treatment versus them coming here? Why is that?
When I need care, I want to get in ASAP, not wait for weeks while my irritation grows into a life-threatening then terminal condition.
And you? All you have to offer is a willingness to let people die just so your idea of healthcare can come to pass. Really, that is quite cynical and insulting to those with cancer and other diseases.
Why don’t you go after those who drive costs up? I know too much about the tort bar not to hold them largely accountable for today’s high costs. And foolish regulation combined with ineffecient practices.
The solution isn’t gub’mint – but the it is the problem.
The Piper
LOL! A panel of Texas right wing tools gets the last word on the fate of a victim of malpractice. Who appoints these people?
How about a jury of the offending doctor’s peers? Not if Texas can help it. Nice…
Texas-style Rovian policy. How are health care premiums in TX?
Gee if an American is traveling to any of those countries and gets sick, is there a need to carry health insurance?
Like say when a citizen of one of those countries travels here?
Yeah we got the greatest health care in the world here in the U.S. – if you’ve got the money or you’re a member of Congress.
And you know who else was at that mobile clinic? TV cameras – from Europe and Japan.
It’s obvious to the entire world that world’s most “richest” country has a braindead, sub-standard health care system.
I’ll take instead of you being unemployed that you get to enjoy the lifestyle gbs bragged about last night.
My big bank account, trade account, two Porsches, Jeep Grand Cherokee, Ford Ranger, Sanger ski boat, trips to Europe, my own home, putting my son through dental school, my daughter’s college is already paid, and my wife who’s lived out her dream of being a stay-at-home-mom because she WANTED to, says otherwise.
What can the government do to make that possible?
Profits in the 10’s of millions of dollars. Kids are DYING NOW because of the current system.
@22
Um, right now, PRIVATE, for-profit companies, with zero incentive or oversight, are doing that every day. If a company selling health insurance, or hospital care, sees a greater profit by denying their services to the people win the most need of them, is that acceptable?
Insurance companies regularly deny payouts to cancer patients, even in the early stages where the cancer can be easily cured. Literally condemmning those people to an otherwise preventable death. This is so common it isn’t even reported.
Just so some fatass executive can build his Ferrari/Van Gogh/gold coin collections.
Insurance companies pay bonuses to account managers and executives for DROPPING sick people off of the rolls. The more people denied care, the more money those jerks make.
I’ll take a universal coverage system, ala Japan or The Netherlands or Norway any time over what exists now in the U.S. Insurance for myself alone, is $400 a month. I make $18 an hour and we’re furloughed down to 32 hours a week since last October. That leaves me with less than $1300/a month for everything. that means 70% of my income just goes to rent. If I use that “health insurance”, I still have to pay $400 out of pocket for the first time I use it.
The number one cause, by a HUGE margin, of personal bankruptcies in this country is medical bills. My boss is currently in the hole for almost $2 million, from when his wife got sick and passed away. He keeps the doors open just to maintain those payouts to the insurance company just to keep them from literally suing the shirt off his back.
We have to do something, the system as it exists now, is a sick sad joke on the citizens of this country. It is a major ripoff and its time to slap the corporations down, hard.
What’s your answer to who appoints those malpractice “panels” in TX?
I see the rosy glow from the memory of Ronaldo Magnus Raygun right now.. ’81 must have been a magic year for you Pooper – so good you seem so happily stuck there.
Your entertainment solution with the family the other day was a gub’mint program. Northwest Trek right?
Stay away from those grubby “commons” Pooper – so gub’mint.
Native american indian kids are DYING NOW with government healthcare.
If the government healthcare can’t save the lives of the native indian population, what gives you reason to believe the government would do better for your kids?
Texas. Let’s say you’re a 30 year-old single woman breast cancer survivor living in Texas earning twice minimum wage and have group coverage. You were treated under that group plan and your cancer is now in remission. Then let’s just say that Republican free market ideology fails miserably, resulting in a deep world-wide recession, high unemployment, and you lose your job. You have Cobra, but scraping by, you were one minute late on the postmark when you mailed in your payment and the insurance company immediately drops your coverage, as I assure you they will. Jobless, no group coverage available because there’s no work, and with little money, you have to find individual insurance coverage. The cancer returns. Answer me this. Will that woman in Texas find individual insurance, affordable or not, that covers her pre-existing condition? Or is she just shit-out-of-luck?
http://www.texasplans.com/Texa.....erage.html
When I see the final plan that works it’s way through congress to the president, this is one of the nation’s healthcare problems I will be looking to see addressed before determining whether or not I support the plan or not.
Why do you always blame it on lawyers? NOT A PEEP, about doctors, hospitals, clinics who profit from delivering MORE redundant, needless care rather than the most effective or the most appropriate care.
At the clinic my wife works at, they have the equivalent of one Medical Assistant just FAXING stuff to pharmacies and other places. Multiply that by every clinic in the country – a huge waste of time and money.
And when a person is injured by malpractice? The solution is stacked “panels” and damage award caps. The victim has to make do with what amounts to lip service from right wing greedheads covering their miserable asses.
Hey the status quo is working just great for the fella @ 34.
Just bounces off the right wing tools in this thread.
And here’s a little testimony from a socialist living in that Marxist workers paradise of Canada (make sure you boycott their oil or their bacon):
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo.....16102/3551
@38 that woman in Teexas deserves to die, because she didn’t work hard enough to be rich. Anyone can do it, you see, if you work hard, and play by the rules, and put your savings away in a nice mutual fund orblue chip stocks…
oh wait…..
Wow clueless wondermoron again post horse crap from Daily Kurse. NutsTooTight calls that an anecdotal story fool.
You lose idiot!
Steve@38: You too bring an anecdotal story to the table per NutsTooTight.
You lose idiot!
Puddy, have you heard about this story at harvard?
Didn’t you mention something about liberals in the northeast yesterday?
Black Students Subject Of Rumors, Profiling In Recent Harvard Murder
…
This isn’t the first time the university has been accused of racial profiling. Since the murder, black students have reported receiving extra scrutiny.
“Lately I’ve definitely been getting some interesting looks from white people, security guards and other security personnel,” said Malcolm Rivers, a black Harvard student and classmate of the Campbell and Smith.
“As a black man on campus, you understand that that’s part of the territory.”
Anecdotal stories and newsmax links.
How bad must things be going when they do exactly what the condemn us for doing.
Priceless.
@24 We all know that Stamn is intellectually-challenged. But the latest Stamn plan is brilliant – in it’s complete lack of coherence.
Some plan Moron Stamm:
You have not controlled costs in any relevant way. Americans will still pay more for drugs than any other country in the world.
Our deficits due to health care (30 trillion) will continue to increase. You just broke the bank on this “non-plan”.
You have not covered uninsured.
You have not helped businesses having to pay for health care. Our businesses wil be at a competitive disadvantage compared to the rest of the world.
You have identified a “non-problem”. State regulation on health care providers have at least gotten rid of the con-artists in the insurance business – now you want to let them back in.
You have not covered pre-existing conditions, helped out to prevent defensive medicien, incouraged cost cutting and any other effiencies.
Your so-called plan is the status quo – the most expensive health care in the world that is on-par with Slovenia. Spiraling costs, more unisured and underinsured and more inefficient paper pushing by insurance companies that dictate care.
Good job. You just showed us you have nothing useful to add to the conversation. So STHU pipsqueak.
@43: Puddy – you are an true embarassment.
Even a third grader can tell the difference between an example and an anecdote. You tell a single anecdote and think that means you have an argument. This is an example of a large class of people who are currently screwed by our “health care” system.
The point being made is that health care coverage is job-dependent, not portable and subject to pre-exsiting conditions. That was an example that illustrated the problem.
If you can’t figure THAT out – maybe you need to take a class in elementary logic 101.
@46: Thank you Stamn for demonstrating, once again, how totally ignorant you are.
I think it is great an idiot like Stamn comes on here to express the republican point of view. That way, anyone reading this can immediately see how vapid, vindictive, purulent and pathetically ignorant (ran out of V’s) that so-called viewpoint is.
Thanks Stamn – we appreciate your lack of intelligence and downright stupidity in the face of facts.
Is that the country ted kennedy went to for his brain cancer treatments?
And you plan is??
Force the rich to pay for the poor?
Hell, gbs brags about his wealth and brags about not paying any federal income tax. What would you do to make rich people like gbs pay their “fair share?” Rich people, even good liberal democrats like gbs don’t want to fork their money over to the government to waste.
[deleted]
Puddy knows that hypothetical Texas woman I use as an example @38 would not be covered for her pre-existing breast cancer condition. She’s shit-out-of-luck. So Puddy refuses to answer, lies by dismissing it as an anecdotal story, and then runs away exclaiming, “you lose idiot”. The typical Puddy response when he loses. I bet I’ve seen him pull that pathetic stunt a thousand times in the year and a half I’ve posted here.
“Republicans are horrified at the thought of the government being involved in your health care.”
This isn’t quite accurate. Republicans are hoorified at the thought of everyone having health care. Especially children of the working poor. And, of course, they’ve dedicated themselves to making sure all working families are poor.
the progressives love to kill unborn babies…nuff said.
@54 Republicans only love unborn children. After they’re born, they can’t wait to kill them.
@55…yep, millions of children killed in this country every year by republicans…..(rolls eyes)…dumb ass.
NutsTooTight retracted and farted:
When Puddy gives an example it’s an anecdote. When Steve gives an example it’s an example.
Keep staring into the whirling circles NutsTooTight.
This fool is still a moron!