[NWPT48]Rossi claims “dismissed with prejudice”…! (More coming….)
UPDATE:
Oh my God this could not have gone an worse for Dino Rossi and the Republicans. After knocking down the Republican case, point by point, Judge Bridges gave the ultimate editorial comment:
“An election such as this should not be overturned because one judge picks a number and applies a proportional deduction analysis. To do so within the context of the facts of this case would constitute the ultimate act of judicial egotism and judicial activism.”
That’s right… Republicans were demanding an act of judicial activism.
Judge Bridges rejected “proportional deduction” as “unscientific”, ruling in favor of the Democrats in the Frye hearing. He also rejected the notion that voter crediting could be used as evidence of illegal votes. He said that there was no evidence that Gregoire received any illegal votes, but accepted the Democrats felon testimony giving 4 to Rossi. So at the end of the day, Gregoire expanded her margin from 129 to 133.
Rossi is screwed. The best thing he can do now is figure out a way to back out, and decline to appeal.
Thank god the judge has a brain.
We rule, Shark and GOP drool!
where are the self-assured righties now?
It was like one long, extended smack-down.
Beautiful.
Let me be the first to say…
HA HA HA HE HE HE HO HO HO!
The loooooser crybaby punks didn’t get their ass kicked, they got it kicked by a republican judge in a republican county. How VERY fuckin’ sweet it is.
Goldy deserves an “Oscar” he may not be a Lawyer, but he plays one on the Blog…..He was absolutly correct on every point. While taking the abuse from the right. Snark get the Goebbels/Tariq Aziz award for misleading his minions.
“Down goes Eyman, Down Goes Snarky.”
Stunning silence from Mr Cynical……
He is not a republican judge, he was appointed by Booth Gardner, but he does have a record of being fair. I admit I’d be mad if he ruled in favor of the petitioners (Republicans) but I would still have to admire the professional job he did in running this contest.
As for myself, I gave up on this turade a while a go.
Unfortunately, the republican party has let own a lot of people in making these accusations.
Now let’s schedule a Rule 11 hearing to impose sanctions on the GOP for bringing a frivolous suit, and to recoup the Dems’ legal costs.
Concur with Willis – one long, extended smack-down. The judge went on and on and on about how the Republican claims were frivolous and invalid (all couched in very polite legal terminology of course), but the “Dismissed, with Prejudice” statement I think reveals the disgust the judge had for the whole business.
Stefan, Mr. Cynical, and their pals now know the meaning of “bitch slapped” …
This goes to show that the Republican’s faith-based apporach simply doesn’t hold water against the analysis of facts according to the scientific method.
Rather than analyze facts according to the scientific method, the Republicans attempted to twist science to fit their faith.
Rather than asking qualified independent experts to apply generally-accepted scientific mehtods to the facts of the case, they sought to have experts hand-craft a theory to fit their preconcieved conclusions.
Faith-based “education…” Creative Design “Theory…” Republican electoral tactics…
They’re all the same hogwash.
Steve
Gig Harbor, WA
prr said it all: “Unfortunately, the republican party has let [d]own a lot of people in making these accusations[.]”
Well … yes … they did, didn’t they.
With 1600 illegal votes; still the wrong decision was made. But…. Personally, I don’t blame Judge Bridges for passing the buck, I would too. See ya all at the Supreme Court. Hope they at least have the testicular virility so needed in this State. Go Dino, go. Don’t pat yourselves too hard there on your backs, it’s FAR from over yet. Thanks.
Steve, the Repubs’ anti-fact, anti-science, anti-reality world view is catching up with them fast. I have a suggestion for the flat earthers who think the law of gravity doesn’t apply to them. Go stand in your front yard, throw a large rock straight up, and don’t move. This is a way of using your head to empirically test whether science works.
I’ll brave the slings and arrows of the party of liars, cheats, and thieves…
The PR war is yours to lose. And, if the majority of voters in this state do not succumb to long-term memory loss, there will be hell to pay in the next few election cycles. Remember the Repub sweep in D.C. of a few years ago?
Enjoy it while you can… the Dim’s may have won this battle, but they’ve yet to win the war.
I’ll now leave you to your gloating and self-congratulatory ass-grabbing…
;~)
Give it up, Mark1, your argument is lame and your candidate’s case is hopeless. Rossi’s gubernatorial aspiration isn’t on a feeding tube anymore; it’s ashes.
KIRO radio:
“We have a reporter stationed at the headquarters of Chris Vance … and after the ruling, they asked her to leave.”
Nothing to say says it all.
I believe in Stefan Sharkansky. I still believe. I still believe. I still believe.
He lives in a nice house Greenlake. I still believe. I still believe.
He does his homework. I still believe. I still believe.
He makes nice spreadsheets. I still believe. I still believe.
The PR war is yours to lose. And, if the majority of voters in this state do not succumb to long-term memory loss, there will be hell to pay in the next few election cycles. Remember the Repub sweep in D.C. of a few years ago?
So you’re admitting that it was never about the evidence and the facts to begin with, but rather some some insane PR shuck?
Thanks for the honesty
Brian C, the Repubs’ PR war just suffered its Waterloo. The judge’s anger over his court being used for propaganda promulgation was palpable. He went out of his way to take the wind out of the GOP’s PR sails. This is devastating for the Repubs. He all but called them liars. The public will connect the dots. It will take years for the WSRP to recover.
SHAME on Chris Vance.
SHAME on Dino Rossi.
SHAME on all the windbags on KVI and KTTH.
The writing has been on the wall this entire time. The law was clear.
Your unfounded lies and rumors and screams and rantings have done and are doing great damage to our democracy. At long last, have you no sense of decency?
Hold a messed up enough election that voter fraud cant be determined. No accountability.
Congratulations dems. This is one to be proud of for sure.
Nothing but celebration down at King County elections.
PS you guys suck. you cheat and you lie.
From Andy MacDonald’s post on Sound Politics:
“Our remedy is to be more organized and to work for candidates who believe as we do. This is one election. There will be hundreds more in our lifetimes and we must contest them all. Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.”
The judgment was a solid one. It was an example of judicial restraint. And it will be an opportunity to remind Repubs what judicial restraint is.
But don’t think for a minute that this is over. Be prepared.
Stefan at Sound Politics: “Judge Bridges has ruled against the plaintiffs and let stand the results of the 2004 governor’s election. He did not accept the use of proportional deduction and did not find fraud either by the election workers or the parties. So, given that the Supreme Court will most likely not change findings of fact and therefore not overrule, Christine Gregoire will be governor through 2008.”
Mary Lane on KIRO:
“We’re disappointed.”
“Dino’s proud of the fact that he helped open people’s eyes to serious problems in King County.”
“Obviously, we disagree with the judge [on proportional deduction]. But he’s the judge, and he made a ruling, and we’ll abide by that.”
“We’ll abide by that.” We’ll see.
Rossi news conference at 5.
Quite an interesting lesson in law and politics. The judge was clear and concise and made it appear that it would be pretty hard to win on appeal. The key to the loss for Rossi was the use of a statistician who knew nothing about statistics. Congrats to the winners – the Washington State voters.
What he did was say that the R’s did not do what we all knew was impossible. Prove the way all the illegal votes went. Can’t be done. You can’t identify who placed all those illegal votes so as long as you get them in the stack the Dem’s are ok with it, as long as they win. I don’t know that the judge had any other option but it does not change the fact that you don’t know who got how many legal votes and never will. As far as the r’s and their scientific experts, and the criticism of them here, the Dems expert had no answer for how to figure out the statistical probability of how the votes went. He acknowledges no scientist could help the court. Again, try to prove the improvable. So his ruling is what it is but changes nothing in terms of the problems and doubt of this election. I’m glad you all happy with this model of an election, just to screwed up top figure out what really happened. That’s a great plan I think we’ll try that next time. F it up beyond recognition and tell the dems to prove the over 1600 illegal votes changed the election.
So reviewing the (u)SP posts, i’m assuming crow tastes bitter and makes people sick to their collective tummies.
I think Goldy is due an appoligy from he snark and his ilk!
Nice job Goldy in keping to the FACTS….something the neocon side should learn from.
And i think your mother was right…you should have becoma a lawyer!
Priscilla @ 26
That’s not Stefan’s words. That’s Andy MacDonald, a cooler more “sensible” head.
Shark’s probably being subdued by Chelan Co. Sheriff right now for trashing a hotel lobby. The guy is toast. Completely bankrupt. What a deluded fool.
You dems are idiots, you think because Rossi could not prove the way all the illegal votes went that it adds credibility to this fucked up mess and makes all the problems vaproize. What a bunch of dipshits.
Pissilla…
“The judge’s ANGER..”???
I would think that the judge exhibited ANGER in his questioning of Dean Logan’s inexcusable mishandling of K.C. elections, and his admonishment in the beginning of this morning’s statements to CLEAN UP THE SYSTEM. Didya miss that part? Had that been done before Nov. 3, 2004, we wouldn’t have been here today. But, inasmuch as Bridges may have been bound by the constraints of judicial law, that doesn’t mean that the laws governing elections weren’t broken many times over. Believe me when I say I can stomach anyone (even Gregoire) being elected governor, if it was LEGITIMATE. But, the fact still remains that her’s is NOT legitimate. Just because Bridges ruled against the petitioners doesn’t mean that she is the duly elected governor of WA. Just means the Dem’s won on the Bart Simpson defense: “I didn’t do it, nobody saw me do it, you can’t prove anything”. But, if it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, and sh*ts like a duck, doesn’t mean it’s a grapefruit.
How would y’all feel if all repubs switch their status to absentee, then start cruising all the precincts in their counties, casting provisionals?? Hmmmm???
Well, the GOP didn’t make their case (if there was a case to be made with existing law). Either way, this part of it is over. At least the judge smacked KC around a bit (though not enough for my tastes).
Perhaps I can find a Seattle therapist to give me some of that Lefty “Post-Election Selection Trauma” counseling. ;)
Going forward, I hope that more thoughtful minds on both sides (see Andy McDonald’s post on SP) prevail. The trolls on both sides must make us look like a joke to outsiders.
random thoughts….
A clear victory for raising State spending 12% in one year. Let’s shoot for 50% in the next budget cycle.
Unless the Judge missed something big, the only reason for the Republicans to Appeal would be for the TVW version of MTV Cribs. We’d get yet another look inside the House of Ron.
I knew OJ was innocent, not enough evidence to convict.
The Democrats are hootin’ and hollerin’ as if a victory has been achieved. Not so. This is a low point in jurisprudential decision-making, but it will allllll be corrected when the Supreme Court finally anoints Mr. Rossi with his usurped position. He won the election. He won the recount. He won another recount. Only through the sloppiness and left-leaning prejudices of King County Election workers was the victory (temporarily) taken from him.
I’d like all those who bombastically (and poorly-spelled) responded to today’s decision to contact me in 4-5 months, and we’ll see who laughs best. It will be hard to contain my glee. But I’ll be glad to come to Olympia and help Christine pack her bags.
The burden of proof was high and it was so screwed up there was little chance to overcome that burden. Does not change anything, except your canidatye gets to hold on to the office, still not knowing if she got the most votes.
micro @ 25 “an opportunity to remind Repubs what judicial restraint is”
Liberals — especially liberal, activist judges — have NO CLUE what “judicial restraint” is.
Well, I watched the live coverage on TVW (for the first and last time during this trial) and I must say that Judge Bridges’ ruling was vindicating and heartwarming to hear. He gave the Rossi team absolutely no love at all, soundly rejecting every last one of their arguments… how many times did I hear the phrase “no evidence”? I should’ve kept a tally! I also loved his reference to judicial activism, saying that that was what he was avoiding by ruling the election valid.
On to the Supremes, who are virtually guaranteed to uphold Bridges’ ruling. So Gregoire will serve her full term with the support of over a million legal voters, the Washington legislature, and the courts, and we can put this whole episode behind us.
Although I predict that we’ll see some voter initiatives aiming at election reform…
35
Those who call the other side on their spelling have nothing left.
my early recap on some of the things Bridges says, is here, at Also Also.
Woooot!
we did it and will do it again even easier! remember have as many people vote for democrats as possible with provisional ballots, there is a very good chance they will get in with the mix and we can get many votes on our side!!!!
If the dimwits who get all their “news” from conservative talk radio had spent 10 minutes reading the applicable laws and reviewing the evidence, instead of wasting hours listening to rant after uninformed rant, they would have known what was coming.
The dumbing down of society continues …
Clicking on Sound Politics crashed my computer … I had to reboot … hmmm, something sinister is going on here …
This was great news to hear while sitting in stop-and-go traffic in Marysville today. Hopefully Rossi will call it quits after being smacked down so harshly, but if not he’s going to make it even harder for the Republicans to gain a toehold on Washington. Today’s verdict seems to be the cure for Goldy’s troll infestation problem!
ray – stop being such a wingnut troll. Provisional ballots will be clearly marked (different colors) the next general election. The actual election officials (i.e. not wingnuts us who have spent the last 6 months working ourselves into a frothy frenzy) have actually worked on fixing the problems.
Of course you’ll never believe it, but we’ve see the type of unscientific rumor mongering that you base your opinions on.
Liberals – especially liberal, activist judges – have NO CLUE what “judicial restraint” is.
Sadly, after the Supreme Court decision today against Raich on medical marijuana, I find myself very unhappy with certain liberal judges. Although the word “activist” will never enter my descriptions. People who use the word “activist” when describing judges are just deluded fools. Judges are supposed to take interpretations of law. There’s no such thing as an “activist” judge, just judges with different legal interpretations.
If you want to keep sounding like a retard, keep using that word.
More taxes, more spending, more waste, more school curriculum written with the help of Mexican President Fox, more business regulation. I guess we’ll just be real busy with referendums and initiatives, got to keep the state’s head above water somehow over the next few years, until we can “win” (relative term) an election too.
About 40 comments on SP so far … mixed bag … some of our guys are over there rubbing their faces in it (good work, guys! :D) … a couple of them are attacking the judge (as I predicted they would) … at least one is threatening to leave our fair state to live elsewhere (don’t let the door hit your ass on your way out) … a couple are waxing philosophical … most are just whining, which is no surprise, that’s the only thing Repubs are good at.
Priscilla,
Yeah easy for you to say, but you seem to be just a lil biased. If the tables were turned the other way, I suspect you’d be running around, flailing your arms around and screaming. Hypocrits. Only word needed. Rossi: wins two out of three recounts. Lil Crissy: ‘recounts till I win’ the third time. Only then, I forgot,; ‘It’s time to move on’. I don’t think so, not on my watch, and it turns out half the voters in this state agree with me. Thanks.
Hilarious that folks still think Rossi won. Didn’t they look at the facts? Amazing what the cool-aid will do….
The other breaking news this morning is SCOTUS rules a doctor’s prescription for medical marijuana is no defense against federal prosecution … guess that means Dubya can’t smoke grass in the White House anymore.
@ 47
Is that zapporo with his head lodged firmly up his *SS again? By the way where is that PRIVATE SCHOOL PRODUCT ProudASS/Lib’s Pet Ass?
Priscilla, et al. Do I like the result, no. Can I live with the result, reluctantly yes. Do I despise King County Elections, yes. Was this an election banks would be proud of, yeah right. Did he castigate KCEC on their lack of problem acceptance, election issues, management not listening to subordinates, yes in the first five minutes of his opinion.
He applied the existing laws on the WA books. The SoS said his office supported proportional deduction on Friday. The judge said he could not, as the evidence did not point that way. That’s why we elect judges. We chose him now we live with it. I may be way out there on certain issues, but when you see the application of specific laws being interpreted as written, how can I fault him.
Once he applied the existing laws, and he said he would not be an activist judge, there is no way to deduct the 1600 + illegal votes. He said illegal votes were cast. He has no way short of the Fifth Amendment incrimination to ask how did one vote. They tell the Seattle Slimes how they votes and a whole bunch said they voted for Gregore. Was it admitted into the official record no, so what could he do but apply the law as said. So life does go on.
But what does that say for Judge Bridges? He is not going to be an activist judge and will not create new laws from the bench. I applaud him for saying that. Can we say that for judges that lean from your side of the aisle? No.
I am not one to boast we are going to the supreme court because that is up to Dino. I hope he doesn’t go as I’d rather let the public vote in November to tell me how they feel about this ruling. But that having been written and delivered, how can he subtract 1600+ illegal votes from the vote total and not say which candidate lost those votes? The election totals no longer add up. It takes a critical review of the issue and the over 11X illegal votes disenfranchised someone legal vote. Why vote if illegal votes can be cast and who cares of it. I for one look at this state and scratch my head regarding how you guys on the left don’t consider illegal votes as he determined in his opinion were definately illegal votes. All I see from your side is that you got the outcome you wanted, not the way it was arrived at. Will the legislature really look at this issue, no! Why would they want to fix something that would end their power? Who voted for whom? Only when Jesus comes again will those who make it into Heaven and review the judgment books know who voted for whom.
Pudster
Glad@36: Many of us have always known who got the most votes and it wasn’t Dino Rossi. Most of us know that that his 260 vote “lead” already included those so-called illegal votes, and then in the second machine recount his “lead” diminished by more than 80%. The hand count was the most accurate, and if we could identify all the error, throw out all the illegal votes, Gregoire would be 1600+ ahead. Couldn’t tell who actually won? I think we know. And I think we know who lost too. The R’s efforts in de-legitimizing Gregoire hasn’t worked, isn’t woprking now and won’t work in the future. Go find yourself some other snake oil salesman to promote – it’ll improve at elast your image. Marilyn
Mark1, wrong again — no flailing, I said I would accept the ruling of the highest court having jurisdiction, and I also said if it was shown that Rossi got the most legal votes then he is our governor. BTW this isn’t over yet — however, appellate courts won’t mess with Findings of Fact unless there’s no evidence in the record to support them, and Bridges’ Findings of Fact nailed the coffin lid shut, so I think the WASC appeal is just a formality.
All these wingers are so convinced the election was stolen. So why couldn’t their “Dream Team”, their “finest” prove it before a judge they shopped in a pro-Rossi county?
Totally lost it.
Nothing beats this for shear entertainment value: meltdown in R land.
Glad @ 36 and Elswhere
Well, the judge actually ruled, based on the existing evidence, that Dino Rossi’s vote total should be reduced by 4 votes and Ruth Bennet’s total should be reduced by one vote. He deducted no votes from Governor Gregoire, because there was no evidence in the record to show that any illegal votes went to Governor Gregoire.
The standard was, indeed, high, but Judge Bridge’s own ruling clearly demonstrates that it wasn’t too high. The only reason for the absence of evidence in the record with respect to illegal votes cast for Governor Gregoire is that the Republicans failed to present it at trial. The only question is, why? Were they too lazy, or did they, perhaps, know that if they brought to light evidence of how felons, and other illegal voters, actually voted they still would have lost the case on its merits?
In either case, your notion that the Republicans’ claims were unprovable is, well, “dismissed with prejudice.”
Nothing beats this for shear entertainment value: meltdown in R land.
No kidding! Check this one out…
Not me. I never felt we would win this court case. I knew from the beginning we were p-eye-$-$-ing in the wind. No chance. I knew we were going to lose. If I could have bet the farm, I would have bet on the commies winning. In court, they always seem to win in this socialist state. That is why I am leaving this state. I hate this puking state worse than I felt about the commies in Nam.
This state will be so much better off without people like this living here.
Pudster @ 52
Are you going to apologize for all the names you called some of our better posters like dj and TorridJoe here and at (u)SP?
God is not going to go easy on the sin of pride come judgement day.
28 and 29
I got the impression the judge left the door open in the future to proportional analysis that is scientifically sound, and what he actually said was the GOP’s analysis was biased and did not remotely satisfy scientific standards.
Pud @ 52
My hats off to you. That is one of the calmer, more thoughtful posts i’ve seen you write in some time. You should bottle and sell that thought process to the rest of the neocons. They could use it to wash down that bitter crow, and maybe even settle their upset tummies.
31
My mistake. I should have known.
35
What “Supreme Court” are you talking about? The SC of Uzbekhistan? You are prattling.
The disconnect between reality and Republican theory is vast. What is so hard about reading the plain language of a statute and recognizing that the evidence fails to meet the statutory test for overturning an election? The continued whining about the number of illegal votes exceeding Governor Gregoire’s margin of victory being sufficient to throw out the election ignores the controlling statute. Rossi’s case tested the outer limits of frivolity. If he wishes to maintain viability as a politician in this state, he should drop his case now, though it is too late to bow out gracefully. I’d better shut my window–the shrillness of the whining is distracting . . .
59 – one of the judge’s conditions for “scientific evidence” is a “generally accepted theory”. I doubt there is a “generally accepted theory” that would support this kind of analysis. If there was, we could skip having elections altogether and just do surveys. The door is open a crack, but I don’t know of anybody who will be able to squeeze through.
The Judge was left with no way to determine who the illegal votes went for. Not a scientific survey to rely upon.
Here’s an interesting scientific survey
http://www.surveyusa.com/50gov.....051005.htm
47
“more school curriculum written with the help of Mexican President Fox”
We can always count on two things from wingers.
1) They’re not graceful in defeat.
2) They’re racist.
65 – what does your link have to do with the discussion at hand? The governor pushed through an unpopular tax increase and now has low approval rating – she may get punished for it at the next election by the voters, but it in no way diminishes her legitimacy as the duly elected governor of Washington.
Priscilla @ 62
You called it beautifully pal. A cold one at the Montlake awaits, of course once things cool down and the more extreme wingnuts are focused on their next jihad.
Pudster,
After all this time, I can’t believe you’re still missing the point. Everyone knows the election wasn’t perfect. Where the Republicans are in outer space about this whole affair is believing that they were CHEATED. I’ve continually heard insunations that the illegal votes were a function of Democrats trying to steal the election. If you believe this, you’re a buffoon.
Rick,
They didn’t present it at trial because, at some point, either by looking at ballots, or through other means, the Republicans realized that the illegal votes were not all for Gregoire, as the Kool-Aid made them believe
Marks @ all
Tell me, does that crow taste better with a side dish of denial?
Seems to me that if your millions paid out to your repuke layers couldn’t prove your case with facts (lets not overlook the fact he’s basicly thrown it out), were they hoping Bridges would leave doors open? Just when are they going to present solid evidence? Tomorrow? Next week?
Enjoy your denial for now, just remember it can give you quite a hangover.
Wow … Even more interesting is the level of political discourse here. “you dems are idiots!” “you R’s are stupid” ad infinitum… Our Founding Fathers must be spinning in their graves… So sad
I’m just a dumb Republican so I need some math help from KC Elections Dept to check my work. The survey noted in post 65 above shows a 34% approval rating, yet she obtained about 49% of the vote. Looks to me like about 1/3 of former supporters have bailed, Correct?
Okaty,
Here is my concern.
King County feels vindicated.
Dean Logan still needs to go and this decision sends them a message that what they have done was within the grounds of doing yur job.
They still have a clustrfuck on their hands and spending more money on them is not the answer.
A few things I noticed in the Great Rossi Smackdown this morning:
a) Bridges was emphatically clear in his findings that Dino led (not “won”) the initial count, that he led (not “won”) the machine recount, and that Gregoire won the hand recount and certification as the elected governor.
b) It did my epidemiologic heart proud that the judge strongly dismissed the GOP “experts” as unscientific purveyors of unsound statistical methodology applied to an extremely biased dataset. A double-header of falsity, one might say. That he used the term ecological fallacy was sweeeet.
c) Near the end, my unlawyerly ears inferred that not only did Bridges find the Republican “experts” willfully misleading and biased, he found them so uncredible and unfounded that he rejected their status as expert witnesses. Does this mean that their testimony is removed from the record, that in essence the trial record will show that the Republicans actually failed to present any acceptable testimony whatsoever that (attempted to) ground their “proportional analysis” in empiricism?
The three sweetest words in Washington’s gubernatorial election of 2004 — dismissed with prejudice.
can somebody tell me what ‘Dismissed with prejudice’ actually entails? I’m not quite sure…
windie @75″
can somebody tell me what ‘Dismissed with prejudice’ actually entails? I’m not quite sure…
As Rick Schaut noted awile back in this thread, it’s one step short of telling the Republicans that their case was so frivilous that they are ordered to be the Democrats’ attorney fees. IOW, a very strong decision against Rossi.
If Rossi were smart he would ask that the Republicans end the lawsuit by not appealing. They made their best shot and from here on it is all downhill for them. They can not enter any new evidence in the trial record and what they have said to date was thoroughly repudiated by the Judge. Flaws in our state election system were pointed out but not fraud or any attempt to throw the election. Doesn’t mean the Republicans can’t continue to throw around unfounded charges but they would do good to reread the children’s book about the boy who cried wolf once too often.
Reconcile @ 72:
If the poll numbers put out by a GOP firm are correct, I would attribute Gregoire’s loss of support to all of the lies and ranting your side has engaged in for 6 months. I’m sure you are proud at being able to inflict such damage .. the ends justify the means and all that … regardless of the real harm it does to democracy in the long run.
I would like to see some reforms. First: all provisional ballots should be differently colored, and if one ends up in the counting machine, it is treated as a spoiled ballot, ie it is discarded. Next: Precinct judges should not have the ability to take the sign-in logs home. They should remain locked in the county courthouse. Lastly: A statewide database of eligible voters. This would be consulted for all voters. (although I am a little leary of this, due to possible computers hackers, failure, etc)
Does anyone know if any of these are going to be instituted? I know my vote counted, since I live in Thurston Co, and Kim Wyman did a great job reconciling the election, but if I lived in King Co, I would really be pushing for some reforms.
Egads, such spelling, such syntax…
*awhile*
*frivolous*
ordered to *pay* the Democrats’ attorney fees
John, go look at my posts. I have always said I would not speculate on the outcome before the outcome. I said illegal votes are illegal votes. I thought the judge said that too. I thought felons would vote more to Gregore. The Times survey sample said more voted for her than Rossi. I didn’t participate in revisionist history. Was it admitted to evidence, no. Did anyone here refute the Times survey, no! So what do I have to apologize for. I never called or handicapped the election. I called others for their stoopid inane comments on other things which I provided links for.
Some people focus on Bushed lied on WMDs. Well so then did the leaders of seven other countries lied one WMDs. Some people decided to discuss their charitable contributions. I called them on that. Still haven’t heard proof of their contributions. Some people focus on civil rights. I showed them to be wrong also. Some people talked about Koran issues. Some people here would allow a child to wear a burquah into class but not allow my son to wear a cross. Is that fair? Yet most of them have not publically said innocent beheadings are wrong. Well why do Muslims arrest Christians and not allow them to pray publically in Saudi Arabia? Your sides moral outrage for small things gets blown up.
Pudster
67 – I’m curious about the hundreds of thousands who apparently voted for her but no longer approve. Are they celebrating or looking for cheeze to go with their whine.
Puddy @ 52
Pudster, this is the most rational discursive you’ve ever posted on HA (although your partisanship does shine through in a couple places), and this time I’m not going to insult you.
What you are basically arguing for is changing the law to authorize judges to set aside any election in which the errors exceed the margin of victory. Be careful of what you wish for. You may think that’s a good thing but in fact it’s the road to chaos. Passing a law that says an election is suspect because it was close will take us down a dangerous path. Not only does it have the potential to leave many races unresolved for months after the election, but it will put a cloud over many office holders, and undermine the public’s willingness to accept the election process as the means by which we choose our government. What alternative is there? In other countries where the election process has broken down, governments are chosen with guns.
You should feel gratified that the judge followed the law and did not get creative. That is what we should want judges to do, and that is what good judges must do. I will venture further and argue that you should also feel gratified that the Legislature set the bar high for overturning elections. It is still open to the anyone to challenge an election if there was fraud, or if the errors was so manifold as to clearly change the result.
I would like to ask you to do something that you have heretofore been unwilling to do, and that is, to ask yourself whether Rossi really won or lost. Other than felon votes, which we can’t quantify but which probably were not lopsidedly in favor of either candidate, the errors in this election were mostly errors of omission — uncounted and lost ballots, etc. These errors occurred in most of the counties, and were proportionally higher in several other counties than in King County. (KC ranks eighth in the % of ballots added to the county’s total between the first count and final recount.) The KC errors actually hurt Gregoire, because they resulted in ballots that, in net, favored her not being counted in the first two counts.
Is it possible Rossi got more legal votes than Gregoire? Yes, because we don’t know who the felons voted for, and we don’t even know exactly how many illegal proportional ballots were cast, let alone for whom. As for making odds, you have your guess, I have mine. But the law creates a presumption in favor of the official count, and a challenger has the burden of showing actual error. As I said above, there are reasons for not relaxing the law to require the margin of victory to be greater than the margin of error. The law is not perfect. Innocent people sometimes get convicted. Juries sometimes believe the lying witness. What I learned in law school is that the law strives for justice, but that is the ideal; what I learned in 30 years of practice and the real world is that justice is not perfect, and but we must live with the imperfections because society needs a way to resolve disputes with finality in order for society to be able to function. Applying this reasoning to the governor’s race and the election contest, even though we can’t know for sure who won, there is a practical need to declare a winner and have someone occupy the office of governor. That — not the attainment of perfect truth or perfect justice — is the function of the legal system and is the judge’s work product.
fire_one @ 79
#1 is in practice in many places; not sure about King for the next general.
#2 I don’t think I heard addressed in the Legislature.
#3 will be implemented as soon as possible. A statewide integrated voter database, and felon listing, is on the way.
Christine Gregwhore is now duly our elected governor. a ONE term governor, without any doubt. Judge Bridge had a difficult job of sorting through all of the documents, evidence and laws to make his decision. But, if anyone thinks we have a team of rocket scientists handing the election board in King County I have a house sitting on top of the world’s largest oil reserve and am looking for investors. Contact me at 206-OI812.
Felix, you are into revisionist history. If the Seattle Slimes and the Puke-Indigestioner reported on this election like the Milwaukee newspapers did on the problems in Milwaukee, the public perception would be much higher than the 57% saying they felt Rossi won the election. Just think most didn’t pay attentions and they felt Rossi won. Amazing isn’t it?
Pudster
I would say in fact there’s a DIRECT CORRELATION between those who didn’t pay attention, and those who felt Rossi won.
:)
Yes. my puddy friend, it truly is amazing what repeating a lie over and over and over can accomplish. I agree with you there. If the wingers had spent 10 minutes reading the laws and reviewing the evidence in this case instead of wallowing in their sorrow, they would have known today’s verdict months ago.
Comment on 56
The Freepers are attacking the judge wholesale, but what do you expect from the crowd that advocates the murder of Department of Ecology enforcement officers?
67, 82 If anything Gregoire will be a much stronger candidate in 2008. She did not take the wimpy way out and avoid tackling real issues in Washington State. Voters will recognize her for having the courage to be a Governor even as her election was contested in Court. The easiest thing to do would have been for her to be quiet and do nothing is this last legislative session. Instead she took positions she knew might not be popular with right wing talk show hosts and no taxes are best Eyman types.
Pudster @ 81
BS. I’ve seen comments at (u)SP where in one broad stroke you called the people here “idiots”. I’ve seen comments of yours here with hardly anything other than simple-minded insults.
All of the people here agreed with Goldy that the R’s had little to no chance of prevailing in court and you called us names. You had more faith in “Baghdad Bob” Sharkansky. Eat crow, look over your posting record and yep, apologize.
78 – Would you attribute our duly elected President of the United States decline in approval rating to “lies and ranting” from your side? Do you think this is an effective strategy?
Priscilla, the first time you wrote something cogent for me to almost agree with. But, I am not advocating for chaos. What I want is a true way to remove illegal votes from the candidate they were cast for. The judge said in his opinion that the legislature has to provide a credible method to remove illegal votes. The existing laws doid not give him any way to remove those votes. Why were there som many problems in KCEC that the judge had to spend the first part of his opinion on them? You gloss over that in you last treatise above.
To answer your question on who won or lost, I really don’t know. The wife called me just now and we both don’t know who won with 1678 illegal votes. You own expert said he could not tell who really won. Get it? Until the 1678 illegal votes are removed, how can one say with full definition, beyond the shadow of a doubt that this person won or lost?
Again, I say it’s the outcome you all worry about not the path taken to the outcome. Otherwise many HA people would say we got to fix this thing. We can’t have another election like this. Many of us on the right would thoroughly respect more of you if your responses out fo the shoot was “We won, but we have to fix these illegal votes.” Look at the first six respondents to this thread? Need I say more? No, I see the requisite gloating. Have I castigated anyone on it, no. Why? You guys won. The tax raiser is still in office and you all wanted that.
Pudster
78 – Or could it have anything to do with what was said during the campaigne vs what happened during the legislative session?
Congrats all. Nice to see all of the ridiculous theories like “voter crediting” get fully explained and eliminated.
Reply to 65
I have confidence in the accuracy of the survey you cited, in part because it’s consistent with other polls, and my response is this.
Gregoire’s low approval rating is not surprising in light of the months-long, multi-million-dollar GOP effort to vilify ad demonize her, and the fact she’s made unpopular decisions that nevertheless had to be made for the long-term well-being of our state. What was the alternative to the gas tax (which, BTW, has been supported by Republican legislators and the business lobby for years)? Let our traffic continue to get worse until our state economy collapsed, and let our infrastructure rot away until no one could get anywhere? She is to be commended for making the tough but necessary decisions, and for getting our state moving again on critical issues. In her first three months, she has done more to solve pressing problems in education, transportation, children’s health care, and other issues than we’ve seen in the last 15 years. We’re lucky to have such a dynamic, visionary, and effective leader.
N in Seattle @ 74
“It did my epidemiologic heart proud that the judge strongly dismissed the GOP “experts” as unscientific purveyors of unsound statistical methodology applied to an extremely biased dataset. A double-header of falsity, one might say. That he used the term ecological fallacy was sweeeet.”
Indeed! Judge Bridges completely impressed me in his ability to understand the nuances of the statistical arguments in this case. This was definitely not a “faith-based” ruling.
I ran into Professor Adolph late Friday afternoon, took him to “The Ave” and bought him a beer. He richly deserved it!
John, I called them on other things, and on illegal votes supported by the judge. But not on the election. IF I did, please show me. I said Gregore was not truly elected by true non-illegal votes. The judge said he could not tell who got theose illegal votes. So we lost.
Pudster
Pud @ 52:
But that having been written and delivered, how can he subtract 1600+ illegal votes from the vote total and not say which candidate lost those votes?
The point is that the court has no way to decide who the votes went for. In pracitcal terms, that number has meaning for the Secretary of State for determining the number of signatures required for initiatives, so it has some meaning there.
But the bottom line is that the only people who actually went to the Felons who voted were the Dems who got sworn statements from 5 Felons. All who didn’t vote for Gregoire.
If the Republican’s had gone to these 1500 or so felons who voted (and they surely know who these people are) and gotten sworn statements that they indeed DID vote for Gov, and who they voted for, Bridges would have clearly accepted that.
The funny thing is, the Repubs had 6 months to do this, but they either chose not to or they DID do it and the results were not what they wanted. I am guessing that the majority of felons in this state actually voted for Rossi :-)
pudd @ 93
If there was no way to attribute illegal votes to a candidate, how did Bridges manage to attribute 5 of them to either Rossi or Bennett? It was possible; the GOP didn’t try. They fucked up.
68
Priscilla rarely appears at DL and never announces her appearances in advance due to traffic problems caused by the large crowds of admiring fans, papparazi, debt collectors, and process servers who follow her around; but Priscilla wants to know if chocolate cake will be served at tomorrow evening’s party.
You can see the fringes of both sides here, neither of which is about to let the facts get in the way of their stilted logic and predilections.
Legal arguments aside though, common sense says we really don’t know who did get most legitimate votes.
I think we need to nail down the law, and go to on-site balloting for most people — it’s worth the cost. Mail-in creates toooooo many problems.
dj @ 97
Thanks again for your contributions to this forum. We’ve learned a lot from comments!
Again, I say it’s the outcome you all worry about not the path taken to the outcome. Otherwise many HA people would say we got to fix this thing. We can’t have another election like this. Many of us on the right would thoroughly respect more of you if your responses out fo the shoot was “We won, but we have to fix these illegal votes.” Look at the first six respondents to this thread? Need I say more? No, I see the requisite gloating. Have I castigated anyone on it, no. Why? You guys won. The tax raiser is still in office and you all wanted that.
Pudster,
Just because a person is happy about the outcome of this election DOES NOT MEAN that they don’t want to fix our election system. I would love to have a more high tech and reliable elections system in this state so that we don’t have a mess like this again. Some of the most advanced technology in the world comes out of this state, and it should be possible. However, it’s something that as a state that we would have to PAY FOR.
The question I have for you is, if a more reliable election system had a price tag that required higher taxes, would you pay for it, or would you complain about Christine Gregoire raising taxes?
73
This ruling in no way “vindicates” King County or gets Logan off the hook. He and KC Elections Dep’t have to do better, and no one knows it better than him.
Windie @ 75
“can somebody tell me what ‘Dismissed with prejudice’ actually entails? I’m not quite sure… “
From my very old law dictionary, Dismissed with prejudice is an ajudication upon the merits and acts as a bar to further action (except appeal, of course). This type of dismissal is based on the merits.
Dismissed without prejudice usually indicates the the dismissal does not affect rights to remedy by the parties. This type of dismissal is not (usually) based on merit.
Reply to 75
“Dismissed with prejudice” is a legal term of art with a specific meaning.
When a lawsuit is dismissed “without prejudice” it can be refiled.
When a lawsuit is dismissed “with prejudice” the ruling is res judicata on the parties to the lawsuit (i.e., binding) and those parties cannot relitigate the issue, either in the same court or in another court.
Instead of a new tax, why not just prioritize what we have? Seems I read we currently have a surplus. The current level of technology is not so bad, just the people working it and the rules associated with the process.
It is just too easy for illegal votes to get into the system. I didn’t even have to prove who I was when I voted, much less prove I was legal when I registered! Law says that if you can get a vote (legal or not) into the system and counted, it stands! Rotten rules.
sick @ 102
Actually, vote-by-mail is the better system. It creates a paper trail that allows signatures to be matched against the registration, and it allows ballots to be compared to envelopes for reconciliation. It also tends to increase turnout, reduces tremendously the number of entry points for organized fraud, and of course cuts costs.
Reply to 79
Most of the items you mention were included in the package of election reforms enacted by the Legislature this spring.
sick @ 108
your signature in the pollbook is proof of your identity.
Let’s fix election systems in this state to the best of our ability while preserving transparency and voter confidence. That means, among other things, a paper trail and recount statutes. Let’s tighten up the absentee rules, let’s make sure procedures are tightly written and volunteers well-trained.
I say we go in order of the counties that had the most errors per capita. So we’ll get to King County once we’ve fixed seven others.
See ya Republifucks!!! Poor babies couldn’t make your case… awww.
WE WON WE WON YA YA YA. Fuckin idiots…
Reply to 85
It sounded to me like Judge Bridges had no difficulty at all seeing through the bullshit.
If a performance audit would prove the tax $$$ went to an improved election, I am all for it. I forgot to mention that I asked for HA support for real performance audits, not that junk passed by the legislature. Nary much of a peep.
Pudster
Felix, did you marry you office mate yet?
Pudster
Reply to 92
I attribute the decline in Bush’s approval rating to the miserable failure of his reckless policies.
John @ 103
“Thanks again for your contributions to this forum. We’ve learned a lot from comments!”
You’re welcome! It has been very satisfying looking closely at the scientific and statistical issues in this case and laying them out for for discussion.
Of course, troll-smacking has been a lot of fun, too! :-)
1st OJ, now Rossi, soon your PeterPanTheBabyDiddler Jackson will get off scott free and you libs will have their hat trick.
CELEBRATE Libs!
Paper trail to match signatures — I signed at poll and can be compared to registration.
Reconciliation of votes to registrations — reconcile my signed vote at poll with registration. You only need to count envelopes to ballots to insure there weren’t two ballots in one envelop…
Don’t know about turnout.
Only point I think you made that was valid (except for the turnout that I don’t know about) was cost.
I want to see picture ID and signature at polling place. This would help a lot of the problems. I think proof of citizenship should be necassary when registering. I beleive only reason for not having these things is that whoever is for it doesn’t mind too much if illegal votes get into the system.
Sick of you all,
Our system is seriously outdated. I voted with pen and paper, and I’m guessing most of the others on this thread did as well. A computerized system can easily help verify legal voters and prevent illegal votes from being cast. There are valid concerns about computerized voting (I’ve read the document of security holes in Diebold machines, those programmers would be fired where I work), but if it’s done with oversight and with the right amount of funding, it wouldn’t be hard to do.
The bottom line is that when you want something done right, you sometimes have to pay for it. One reason why I’ve become more liberal since moving out here from the east coast is being I’ve been shocked at how naive many Washington State residents are when it comes to the reality of having to pay taxes to support an infrastructure. Think about how much money was wasted in legal fees and other nonsense after this election. Wouldn’t it have been smarter to have spent a fraction of that money upfront to make sure the election system wasn’t broken?
This is the way Washington State works. Whine about paying taxes for something until you HAVE TO fix it, and it ends up costing 10 times as much.
1st OJ, now Rossi, soon your PeterPanTheBabyDiddler Jackson will get off scott free and you libs will have their hat trick.
Yeah, this trial had SO MUCH in common with the OJ and Michael Jackson trials. Retard.
1st OJ, now Rossi
You want to compare Rossi’s failed case to a murder trial? You wingers really are stupid.
Couldn’t Jesus save you stupid fucks this time? Keep praying! hahahaha Next thing to come on down is gay mariage! Looks like the republifucks are in for another butt fucking. hahahah
CELEBRATE Libs!
We’ll celebrate the Honorable John Bridges well-reasoned, professional decision, ProudASS, you PRIVATE SCHOOL PRODUCT!
By the way, we haven’t heard a peep from Mr. Cynical, that PINHEAD COWARD!!!
sick @ 120
The only way to compare pollbook signatures to registrations is to bring 2200 pollbooks into the counting rooms. Not a viable strategy. Comparing them on individual envelopes, to a digital image raised by the reading of the envelope, is much, much easier.
The reason many of us oppose requiring IDs, is that there doesn’t seem to be any problem that it solves. No evidence was presented to show that ANYONE voted by poll in Washington, who was NOT the person who signed the pollbook. So unless we know that people impersonating registered voters is a problem, what’s the point of requiring ID?
Requiring citizenship at registration is also a solution in search of a problem. To my knowledge evidence of only TWO non-citizen votes was presented, statewide. One of them cancelled his own registration immediately afterward, realizing his mistake.
Reply to 93
The problem is how do you identify and remove illegal votes without compromising the right of legal voters to cast a secret ballot? Our system has always relied on the “front door” method of trying to keep ineligible people from voting at the front end of the process, by checking eligibility at the time of registration and checking whether the voter is registered at the polling place or by matching the absentee ballot to registration records. Obviously we need to do a better job at the front end, but I agree reform shouldn’t stop there.
Judge Bridges pointed out that our voting system relies on “the honor system.” Unfortunately, society has changed in the last several decades, and pretty much across the board, the honor system isn’t reliable anymore. Employers have learned they need to check whether the job applicant really has that degree, and we now have laws requiring background checks before people can be hired to work in day cares, to offer two examples.
However, you need to accept the fact that more intensive checking and enforcement of voting registration laws will cost more money, and necessitate paying higher taxes to conduct our elections, if that’s the route we want to go.
It’s hard to argue with the concept of having a functional reconciliation system in place. With today’s computer technology, it ought to be feasible without being exorbitantly expensive. The reason it hasn’t been done is because it adds another layer of expense to solve a problem that doesn’t really exist. For all the talk about stuffing and election stealing, there’s very little objective evidence that ballot boxes get stuffed or elections are stolen anywhere in the country. That’s why public officials who write budgets and decide how to spend limited public resource have been unwilling to invest large sums in putting anti-fraud systems in place in the absence of evidence of an actual fraud problem. But in our state, it may be worth doing now, simply to restore public confidence in the election process and to add another level of assurance that fraud isn’t occurring. I would support such a reform with the caveat that it’s going to add more costs to election administration and as taxpayers we have to be willing to pay for what we ask our public officials to do.
Still not much here from the inbred right wing morons. Come on folks. What’s the matter? Defeat too tough for people of no moral conviction to take.
Man this is a GREAT day!
Pudster @ 93
“Until the 1678 illegal votes are removed, how can one say with full definition, beyond the shadow of a doubt that this person won or lost?”
Even though Judge Bridges rejected the proportional analysis, he said that a proportional analysis of the illegal votes showed that Gregoire prevailed.
In other words, had Bridges accepted proportional analysis, Gregoire would still be Governor. The illegal votes did not change the election. They were found throughout the state, and largely canceled each other out.
If you need more certainty than that, subtract 1,678/2 from Rossi’s total and 1,678/2 from Gregoire’s total (via the principle of insufficient reason). Be sure to subtract the 4 illegal votes known to be cast for Rossi.
If I can get ahold of the data set with the precinct-level data for the 1,678 illegal votes, I’ll be happy to post a full-blown proportional analysis.
dj–can you email me at alsoalso.also@gmail? I want to ask if you have any info on votes for Governor by precinct, in two specific areas. Thanks
TJ
PRIVATE SCHOOL PRODUCT!
If ass actually went to a private school then I’d say his parents clearly wasted their money in the effort. After all, even a Mississippi middle-school dropout only needs a cheap computer and an account with AOL to troll weblogs 24/7.
Reps put a lot of stock in winning at any cost and being right no matter what. They accomplished neither in this case. They were oh so right though in predicting that this decision would have national reverberations. I don’t think they were thinking of meeting their own Waterloo. Hey, maybe I’m exagerating, but I’m entitled.
Comment on 989
I feel in my heart, with great confidence, that Gregoire did win the election (albeit by the slimmest of margins). Rossi is to be congratulated for making the strongest run of any GOP candidate in a generation. What the Repub screamers have done throughout this spring’s PR wars is ignore the rights of the 1.5 million-plus Washingtonians who chose Gregoire. To hear those guys (and people like Shark and Carlson) talk, nobody voted for Gregoire. Well, my answer is, our votes do not count less, and we do not lose our rights as voters, just because we didn’t vote for Dino.
Well, it seems to me that the judge made the right call. As a Rossi supporter I am disappointed but I did not believe that my side made their case in court. As i have stated previously, I thought it was too dangerous for both parties to have the republicans prevail in this lawsuit.
The republicans shouldn’t appeal this.
it just means that Chrissy’s lame duck status gets to last 3 1/2 more years.
You are right dj. I wished he had said to KCEC, Pierce and the other counties, “I withdraw your certification and prove to me the full and factual vote counts. COunt the provisionals found.” He did bring up reconciliation and I thought he was going there. I would fully support the final outcome from that. See the issue in my mind here. If you can’t reconcile how can you certify? He chose another path so be it. We elect judges to judge. Moses was told by his father-in-law to choose just people and set these people to judge the people. So be it.
Pudster
Now is the time to fix the problems which lead to the confusion that surrounded this past fall’s general election. Judge Bridge’s ruling was based on applying existing law to the evidence presented. Those who disagree with with his ruling should concentrate their energies on changing the law, not the evidence.
This is FUN! Even though ‘our side’ didn’t get the outcome they desired, we can still look back and smile on those good ole’ days of third grade when the stupidest of school kids were often the loudest with the ‘nanny, nanny, boo, boo’ rhetoric. All I can do is smile at the thought of half the state’s population crapping their pants at the probability of being ousted very soon from all meaningful political clout in this state. Keep up the gloating. It truly does define you.
Torridjoe – It seems that most, if not all of the election issues could be solved by
1) Moving to the all-mail balloting (a la Oregon)
2) Each county has a centralized, professionally staffed election facility (with permanent setups for observers and what-not)
3) Statewide, coordinated databases of registered voters
All three of these are planned or in the works.
My personal favorite, that I never see addressed:
4) Build a computer system that allows people from home to print out “perfect” ballots for optical scanning. It seems that a large part of the reason for having to manually count ballots is the humans that don’t perfectly fill out the ovals, or accidentally double or under-vote. If we created a system where you could visit a web site, print out your perfectly filled ballot and then put it in the secure envelopes sent out by the counties (which is how you’d prevent double-voting), a lot of ballot issues would be solved. We’d also still have a paper trail and no issues with keeping track/deleting computer records (since you could always feed the ballots back through the scanners).
PS. Personally, I think we should eliminate the former-felon voting ban, which would only make it necessary to make sure that no one actually in prison gets to vote.
137
Your “I meant to do that” routine is so not convincing.
dj and everyone else,
Right now as I write, the wingers are planning to ram through a “vote supression” initiative. For 2006 and beyond we have to get out the true message of this past election – that the election system in KC and elsewhere was overwhelmed somewhat by the high turnout. It creaked and groaned under the strain but it mostly held up and most importantly it will only get better!
We need tables, facts and figures posted clearly and succinctly on every progressive blog and the MSM should be alerted.
The bottom line is we have to keep fighting the propaganda and misinformation of the extreme right. We can’t let up.
Everyone, see the response from headlice? Proves to me she doesn’t get it with her comment “just win at any cost”. Where is the link that the Rossi camp said this? The Repubs were not at winning at any cost. It was the process, the procedure and the errors in votes allowed to be counted and the placement of their unchallenged ballots into the machines. It is people like headlice that give us heartburn. I wish her managers would trace her posts and fire her. But wait I bet she is the boss and who would fire her.
Sure on my side there were those who felt we would win. I held my fingers caused I could not guess his outcome. When he was asking Logan what was going on in KCEC, I had a hope, but it was extinguished today.
Hey Felix, well did you? I have yard work to do.
Pudster
Reply to 102
How strange that you Repubs decry the problems that occurred at polling places, then call for eliminating absentee ballots and making everyone vote at a polling place.
Of course, you don’t mind that eliminating absentee ballots would disenfranchise a lot of people, mostly working stiffs who are more likely to vote Democratic.
Washington, like the rest of the Pacific N.W., has an unusually high number of people who earn their livelihood away from home or must travel frequently in their jobs. This is because we have so many resource-based industries, and because we are a portal state and a major conduit for commerce with Asia.
If you eliminate or severely restrict absentee voting, you will be disenfranchising:
Airline crews aboard flights on Election Day,
Merchant mariners,
Construction and oilfield workers working in Alaska,
Commercial fishermen at sea on Election Day,
Truck drivers,
Ill, infirm, disabled, and elderly people confined to their homes or in care facilities,
Anyone whose work/commuting hours leave no time for going to the polls,
and many others.
That isn’t fair. A person should not lose their right to vote because of their age, health, or how they make their living. It isn’t necessary. There are other ways to assure the integrity of absentee balloting.
My answer to Republican demands to restrict absentee voting is a resounding “no way!”
torridjoe @130:
If those precincts are in King County, they’re readily available. Take a look at the “Resources” section of the website of the 41st LD Dems, which gives access to precinct-level totals.
They’re actually a bit rolled-up from the full precinct data, which I (among many others, no doubt) have on a computer at home.
Comment on 108
The surplus is very small (a couple hundred million$$) in relation to the overall budget ($26 billion) and is necessary to make up any shortfalls that may result from economic downturn or revenue forecasting errors, because the state cannot legally run a deficit. It’s like keeping a little extra money in your checking account in case next month’s heating bill is higher than you expected.
Please go do your yardwork, Pud. I am just a pretend ex-major league infielder for the Indians and M’s.
Pud @135:
I wished he had said to KCEC, Pierce and the other counties, “I withdraw your certification and prove to me the full and factual vote counts. COunt the provisionals found.”
What was that Republican bullshit about disliking “activist judges”? There’s nothing in the RCW that would permit Bridges to selectively invalidate county certifications.
But of course IOKIYAR.
Sick of you all
Bitter much?
I wanna know where ‘Good Morning, Gov. Rossi’ went tho!
115
Performance auditing is a complex subject which I admit that I haven’t had time to study in depth, so I won’t rule out future strenghening of the bill enacted this spring. Locke instituted the ideas of zero-based budgeting and Priorities of Government which in my opinion have saved some money for taxpayers and made state government incrementally more efficient, streamlined, and effective. Certainly, we don’t want programs or agencies that have outlived their usefulness to exist in perpetuity, or the perpetuation of inefficient or ineffective practices. State government is already under tremendous scrutiny and merely adding more scrutiny per se isn’t necessarily effective, but if there are smart things we can do to make government work better or do things for less cost, of course we should do those things.
Rod S. @136:
Now is the time to fix the problems which lead to the confusion that surrounded this past fall’s general election. Judge Bridge’s ruling was based on applying existing law to the evidence presented. Those who disagree with with his ruling should concentrate their energies on changing the law, not the evidence.
Those who agree with his ruling should — and more to the point, will — also work to improve our electoral law and our electoral system.
Despite the barrage of strawman arguments from the other side, no one thinks King County did a bang-up job in 2004. They had procedural breakdowns, made mistakes. They need to work hard to improve their quality, and they very much want to get better at what they do.
Same as every other county in the state, in terms of both the procedural problems/mistakes and the effort to improve.
Mr. Cynical, the #1 fan of BAGHDAD BOB “THE SNARK” SHARKANSKY!!!
Reply to 137
I admire your valiant but quixotic effort to put a happy face on a crushing defeat.
Crow anyone?:
As I’ve mentioned before, I’m predicting that Judge Bridges will set aside the election. This is, of course, far less than 100% certain, but it’s based on the common sense notion that election officials are obligated to adhere to at least some standards as set forth in statutes and administrative rules; and if failure to obey the law leads to an at best uncertain outcome then the people’s will has not been expressed and the election is not valid.
Atlas has Shrugged. Withdraw all private capital from Washington State.
N in Seattle @ 149:
“Despite the barrage of strawman arguments from the other side, no one thinks King County did a bang-up job in 2004. They had procedural breakdowns, made mistakes. They need to work hard to improve their quality, and they very much want to get better at what they do”
While I agree, the devil is in the details, isn’t it? How do you fix things is my question. Personally, I’d fire Logan first, but if you don’t agree, how would you begin? I think there is a lot of institutional problems in KC Elections that will not go away until you get some new blood.
All that said, I did agree with Goldy that Rossi was toast from the start of this challenge, and I hope they do not pursue an appeal as it will just backfire horribly.
Also I wouldn’t gloat too much, my liberal friends, and accuse the R’s of beating this dead horse when the erstwhile Democratic leader is still contesting Ohio (which had less issues than our election)….
“Dean started to question how the 2004 presidential election was run in the pivotal state of Ohio — but pulled back.
“African Americans waited three times as long as whites to vote in Ohio,” declared Dean. He followed by describing the waits as part of a “deliberate — I don’t know whether it was deliberate” — bad distribution of voting machines.”
I know why Mr. Cynical isn’t posting this morning. He’s attending Dick Cheney’s fundraiser in downtown Seattle today.
I understand the ecological fallacy but I still don’t understand the Monte Carlo method. Does it have anything to do with Ringo Starr and Barbara Bach?
Also I wouldn’t gloat too much, my liberal friends, and accuse the R’s of beating this dead horse when the erstwhile Democratic leader is still contesting Ohio (which had less issues than our election)….
Let’s wait until that case is decided before drawing comparisons, Jon. Especially if it turns out there actually WAS fraud in Ohio. Rossi has had his day in court already.
Democracy is dead.
N @ 143
do you have a URL on that? Thanks
angry @157:
Democracy is dead.
No, it isn’t. Cheney, Bush, Scalia, Ashcroft, Gonzales, Bolton, Rumsfeld, et al. are doing all they can to carry out your death sentence, but somehow it squirms its way out of their fetid grasp.
Rossi has scheduled a 5 p.m. press conference — just 4 hours from now. He needs to either gracefully concede to Gregoire and acknowledge her as the legitimate governor, or simply announce that he will appeal to a higher court. If he whines or acts like a sore loser, he will turn people off and wreck his political future. We’ll soon find out.
Dave @ 156: “Let’s wait until that case is decided before drawing comparisons, Jon. Especially if it turns out there actually WAS fraud in Ohio. Rossi has had his day in court already.”
Well, pretty dang close… from this article:
“The door is almost closed on the 2004 presidential campaign in Ohio. Chief Justice Thomas Moyer on Thursday ruled against Ohio Attorney General Jim Petro’s attempt to have lawyers punished for filing “a meritless claim” against the vote that gave President Bush a win in Ohio. That win in Ohio gave Bush enough electoral votes to win a second term in the White House.
The ruling leaves only one active case from last year’s presidential election — a challenge of how the recount was conducted.
In legal documents filed with the Ohio Supreme Court, the lawyers had said the challenge they filed on behalf of 37 voters included enough evidence of voting irregularities to back up their allegations of widespread fraud. Neither John Kerry’s campaign nor the Democrat Party were part of the challenge. The challenge was later withdrawn.”
So, are you D’s going to let Ohio drop finally when this is all adjudicated, much like you’re telling the R’s to do here?
TJ @158:
Do you mean the 41st LD tool? Their front page is here, and the “Resources” subpage is here. When changing LDs, you may need to click on “Go” a couple of times until the correct precinct list shows up.
If you need something else, drop me an email (click over to my blog to find the address if necessary).
Question for the legal experts: is there a substantive difference between “dismissal” and “ruling in favor of”? Didn’t Judge Bridges essentially say that, even if the Democrats hadn’t put on their case, Rossi’s claims would have failed? I recall that he did not specifically rule on the Democrats’ motion to dismiss. Is this final ruling actually a ruling on that motion?
Just curious. Answers to those questions aren’t important. The really important question is, what’s the true identity of Lawyer X? (Priscilla, maybe?)
Can I have my husband back now?
Priscilla,
Most of your statements and arguments are opinions backed up with no hard evidence. You are naive if you think there’s no good legitimate arguments that the GOP case made. It shows your lack of intelligence and selfishness. Maybe the old adage: ‘You get out of the gene pool!’ is very fitting. Thanks.
So, are you D’s going to let Ohio drop finally when this is all adjudicated, much like you’re telling the R’s to do here?
To be honest with you, I let it go Nov 3rd.
No idea who Lawyer X is, but I’m certain it isn’t Priscilla.
I talked briefly with one of the prominent Dem lawyers last night at the DNC chair’s reception in Seattle. That lawyer was quite confident that Bridges would rule in favor of the good guys, but I don’t know whether that lawyer expected the ruling to be quite so decisive.
I note also that that lawyer was in Seattle at 9:30pm or later last night, and was sitting at the Democratic lawyers’ table in Wenatchee at 9:00am today.
it just amazes me how so many people can be so emotionally vested in a political outcome that they are reduced to the most pubescent behaviors of name calling and caterwauling and denigrating and dehumanizing one another. Really, if this is the state of this democracy, voting is the least of our problems. The desperation expressed in the last few days, is emblematic of something that is occuring all over this country. The fragile veneer of civility is peeling off to reveal a nation of some of the most anxious depressed people in the history of this planet. The serfs of the middle ages weren’t this freaked out about their own futures.
The rich get enormously richer, exceeding even their wildest expectations, and the 90% of the population of the US falls further behind dropping nearly 7% of their worth in the last 25 years, and how do we respond. Name calling and saying “i told you so”??? Please start recognizing that no matter what strain of the political sect spectrum you claim as your own, none of us are the wealthiest one one-thousandeth of the population. None of us are the wealthiest one one-hundredth of the population. This court case is in many ways a collossal waste of tax payer funds and emotionally charged energy all of which could be better spent on trying to solve some substantially much more meaningful and indeed more desperate issues.
Judge Bridge’s decision boiled down to TWO WORDS:
NO EVIDENCE
That is all.
hahahahahahahahaha!
what th’?? what happened to my TWO WORDS??? Which are:
NO EVIDENCE.
hahahahahahahahaha!!!!!
Says Mark1: “See ya all at the Supreme Court. Hope they at least have the testicular virility so needed in this State. Go Dino, go.”
Well, the news gets even worse for you. Four of the Supreme Court Justices are women. Smart ones, too. Sad for you, but we’re a loooong way from Florida.
Also I wouldn’t gloat too much, my liberal friends, and accuse the R’s of beating this dead horse when the erstwhile Democratic leader is still contesting Ohio (which had less issues than our election)…
Uh, no. Ohio had many, many, more issues than Washington. It’s just that the result in Washington was closer. If any Democratic official in Washington State did the kinds of the things that Ken Blackwell was doing, it would have been much easier for the Republicans to win the court case.
Now it would be nice to have some real election reform. Like what allowed for the election to get to be so close in the first place. With the requirement for the primary to be changed, we dropped the ball. Would have been nice to adopt IRV, and we would not have had this problem.
Taking bets on true identities:
Sick of you all: zapporo, the one who mistook insult and slander for humor, so dismissive of “tired arguments” – engaging this morning in “tired arguments” of his own. Head lodged firmly you-know-where.
Good Morning, Governor Rossi: ProudASS, not so proud now, a PRIVATE school product moldering on the shelf while PUBLIC (as well as PRIVATE) school alumni make decent contributions to constructive debate and to society.
…bitchwoire: ditto. Exposing her much too pronounced disdain for women who made different choices than she and excelled like Christine Gregoire and Jenny Durkan.
And where oh where are the following:
pbj?: nowhere to be seen thank God.
righton?: wrong and gone.
Chardonnay?: missing in action for quite a spell, probably drowning her sorrows with cigs, cheap whine in the freeper forums.
Mr. Cynical?: Splitsville. Leering bully and like all bullies a coward.
At least Pudster to his credit despite his shortcomings (and yes we all have them) hasn’t hidden and has engaged in some civil conversation this morning. His “headlice” comment though is more true to form.
Giving non-living,imaginary entities (corporations) 14th amendments rights (19th century judicial activism) and not being diligent about making these entities prove that they are formed for some public good may just be a large part of the problem. Where does free speech end? The moment you enter the office or walk on to the shop floor. Is this what the founding fathers envisioned? I think not.
That’s OK. I call him the Puddwhacker and so far he hasn’t denied it.
Priscilla said “Now let’s schedule a Rule 11 hearing to impose sanctions on the GOP for bringing a frivolous suit, and to recoup the Dems’ legal costs.”
I second that. And let’s seek sanctions against Rossi’s attorneys for opening and closing statements that misstate the evidence – this is sanctionable behavior. Of course, the WS Bar Association will do nothing.
Ha!
The comment “Can I have my husband back now? ” from mrs. dj @ 164 really was from mrs. dj!
I guess she has been something of an “election widow” for the last few months.
I’m coming, dear. . . just one more analysis and a couple more posts!
Breaking…
“Baghdad Bob” Sharkansky on Dori Monson.
Calling for Sims to be thrown “on the trash heap”. What a nut…
“Reasonable people would figure it’s over. “We’re talking Republican leadership here. With them, it’s hard to use the word “reasonable” in the same sentence. All along, the GOP faithful were fed the fantasy that Dino Rossi was the victim of a conspiracy. They were told it was fraud; sinister, illegal actions were what plunked Christine Gregoire into the Governor’s chair.Just wait’ll you see the evidence’ was the GOP mantra.
Well, we’ve seen the “evidence” and it didn’t amount to squat.
Problems in the system? Definitely. Human error? An embarrassing amount. But criminal intent? Not a whiff. Along the way,dissgruntled voters – which I hope includes most of us – had to endure the constant barrage of Republican arrogance that whittled away at people’s confidence in the election process.
Democratsglossed over all the election problems and fueled the Republican’s crazy Boogey-man-in-the-closet theories.
At least now, with the judge’s ruling, reasonable people will figure at least it’s over.” :)
And then there’s those Republicans…
I think alot of Reps are tired of the constant attack mode these neo-cons insist upon. It’s going to really drain them now that (at least in WA) Dems have the will to fight back and not give up.
The Judge has ruled, it’s over Move On!!!
Having said that, I am still embarrassed by the conduct of the (my) King County Elections Department. It’s unfortunate it took an election contest to draw attention to the inner workings of this Department.
The Citizens of King County and this great State deserve much better.
WingDings…: Taking a break from the yard work. What, headless becoming headlice? It’s appropriate since she doesn’t say much of anything constructive and she is a nit that needs swatting. Hey headlice, responding to whacker is beneath my personal dignity. I still am trying to determine yours. Do you feel good wasting public taxpayer resources posting from the Seattle School District hardware when the school district is losing money? Seems to me that a person would try harder to make the system more efficient, vs. more wasteful. Where is the personal dignity in that? Hasn’t fessed up to her $pending habits.
I guess if mrs dj is on the wire, he must not be the brother of jethro! Well back to work.
Pudster
N in Seattle–
thanks for the web URL! Perfect.
Mark1 @ 165–
“You are naive if you think there’s no good legitimate arguments that the GOP case made. ”
Seems to me the judge disagrees. Can you name ONE point of law he agreed with the Republicans on?
This probably will get lost in the sea of posts today, but I’d like to congratulate Goldy on accurately calling virtually everything about this election contest.
Of the two major Washington bloggers, it’s clear which one did his homework and which one didn’t. Goldy aced his final; the other guy failed miserably.
Well done again, Goldy.
Goldy,
Just to reiterate what I said here, thus saving anyone from posting the inevitable “You were spanked” comment…
Well, let’s see. I think congratulations are in order to Judge Bridges for being an inactivist judge. I see no reason to appeal to the WSSC.
I extend personal congratulations to the following, for the following reasons:
tj – If SP had not banned you, I would not be here posting my BS. So everyone has you to thank or blame for my presence.
dj – Good wit. You are a credit to whatever political Party you claim (I seem to recall you decline to state your Party, though your politics are decidedly leftish).
RDC – Wherever you are, thanks for the insight.
My fellow righties (whom I have opposed on some matters):
Moveon.org (ugh, that leaves a bitter sensation). The only blame that is valid is on the part of the R legal team and it’s unhealthy obsession with statistics. Had they deposed 138 felons who voted for the current governor and introduced it into court records, maybe matters would have been different, but I doubt cherry-picking 138 felons would have withstood scrutiny.
Goldy,
A toast:
To your forum. May it continue to be a bastion of political learning with humor. I look forward to more useful laughs as you poke fun at my Party. I will try to return the favor as necessary, and will agree with your opinions when applicable…
Looking to the future:
Is Rossi going to admit that this was all a sham and not appeal, or does he ride his crooked horse all the way down to hell and appeal?
Priscilla@66 –
Racist? Quite the leap.
marks @187:
I won’t speak for Goldy, but I appreciate seeing you posting as an adversary rather than an enemy. Discourse is a two-way street, and the high road is always more informative and more pleasing than the low road.
I hope this is the start of a new day for all sides … even if it cuts into Goldy’s hits. :-)
marks 187
Many thanks! I’ve also enjoyed reading your posts, and hope you continue to contribute here. Your willingness to thoughtfully and carefully examine issues truely makes you a credit to all righties!
Reply to 189
I’ll let the readers decide. To refresh their recollection, here’s what you said:
“More taxes, more spending, more waste, more school curriculum written with the help of Mexican President Fox, more business regulation.”
Let’s take a straw poll. Here are the choices:
1) witty
2) racist
I vote for “racist.” You are anything but a witty person.
Comment on 188
For practical reasons, I hope there’s an appeal. If this case doesn’t go beyond the Superior Court, it will not be precedent, and we will not have any modern caselaw on contesting elections. The facts of this case present so many issues that it’s a golden opportunity for the WASC to lay down the ground rules for future election contests and address such issues as whether proportional analysis can be used at all, and if so, under what conditions. It’s also an opportunity for the WASC to clarify the law on procedural issues like burden and standard of proof, and what must be shown before allocating illegal votes to one candidate or the other.
Comment on 187
marks, you are a class act.
Comment n 186
Stefan hasn’t commented post-ruling yet, but his pre-ruling post went like this: “Will Judge Bridges side with common sense … Or will he side with the Democrats and Josef Stalin … ?” No question, Goldy wins hands down, for both content and class.
@ 192 Definetly 1) Racist
and if you look here you can see a clear case of mysogeny
http://www.horsesass.org/index.....ment-36025
Re: 177
Yeah..I PAY to see Rob Mc Kenna bring suit against Dino Rossi.
marks @ 187
You’re a mensch.
Reply to 165
Marks1, I do know how to read a statute and a court opinion. After all, I have been a lawyer for over 30 years. So if my statements and arguments (on legal question, at least) are just opinion, they are expert opinion (at least compared to yours).
Wow…everyone is touting this as the greatest thing since sliced bread. It isn’t.
So the judge ruled against the Republicans. Means nothing, as the same fight will go on forever, even after this is all over with.
Next Stop: Maria Can’twin.
For what it’s worth….
Goldy, I too want to thank you for your comments/postings on this election contest. There may not be very many other areas that I agree with you, but your opinions on this ‘election drama’ was spot on.
dj, Richard Pope, marks, and the other good posters… I’ve learned a lot about election law from you and you guys were/are always good for some thoughtful posts. Thanks!
Well let me finish that for you donniegirl:
Conservative women want big strong men…
Liberal women want to BE big strong men.
Conservative men like soft, feminine women.
Liberal men ARE soft femininny women.
Girlymen and manly women – and you wonder why we think the world is upside down.
Andrew Carson @ 200: “Next Stop: Maria Can’twin.”
As much I would like to agree with you, Andrew, the State GOP has done very little developing leaders in Washington to take on Democrats. With the possible (emphasis on possible) exception of Rossi, who is going to run against Cantwell and have a chance?
Do you suppose this will mark the beginning of the Healing Tour II?
Priscilla@192 –
How about 3.) Factual
What about that comment is racist you ass? Nothing, it states a fact. You’re a dipshit, I was being factual (tough for you to understand) not witty, not racist. As far as post @196 – WTF?
According to your logic (or should I say thinking – as it is not logical) it’s ok to have anyone from any country have their hands in our school system, or any other part of government I assume because to have issue with it or to not see value in it is racist.
It is a shame Goldy couldn’t be on KVI this afternoon, Carlson is suffering from a big dose of denial. Plus no one held the minnow accountable for all his blog-fraud.
Of the two major Washington bloggers, it’s clear which one did his homework and which one didn’t. Goldy aced his final; the other guy failed miserably.
Ain’t it the truth? I found out about HA through of all places (u)SP. I kept thinking, “why doesn’t anyone call this guy (Sharkansky) on his BS?”
Goldy was the guy. Goldy was right. The Snark (and his many sycophants) were wrong.
And I’ve been here ever since.
Reply to 163
The “dismissal” language has to do with the nature of the proceeding and the statute creating it. This was a “petition” to set aside the certificate of election, and the judge “dismissed” the petition.
I think the more typical judicial language is to “deny” a petition but unless I’ve missed some nuance, in the context of this case, it’s the same thing.
“In favor of” is not legal terminology, and would not be used by a judge in drafting a formal order. It’s layman’s language, and lacks the precision of legal terminology, which is why judges use the latter in their orders.
The Democrats were not sued, and were not an original party to the case. They were intervenors who asked the court (technically, “petitioned” the court) to participate in the case as a full party. The judge granted them full-party status, which meant they had a right to introduce evidence, cross examine witnesses, exercise discovery, etc.
If one wishes to use layman’s language and say the judge ruled “in favor of” someone, then one would be referring to the defendants listed in the pleadings caption, minus those who were dismissed out of the action (e.g., the county auditors). The ruling is “in favor of” the remaining defendants, who include King County, and Dean Logan and Sam Reed in their official capacities.
marks–
good show. I’m not sure I understand how my banning brought you here, but I think it’s been a good thing for HA in the end. Keep that open mind!
Priscilla – Not that I should need to share this information with you. But just to show how far off you are I will.
I have 4 cousins that are 1/2 mexican.
I have 1 brother-in-law that is 3/4 mexican
1 of my very close friends and many of my other friends are black.
Another of my very close friends is from Jordan and is a muslim.
I could go on.
All that being said and even considering how much those individuals mean to me personally…..
Affirmative action is wrong.
Illegal immigration is wrong.
Having a school system developed by a foreign country is wrong.
Unsecure borders are wrong.
Making a big deal out of the Koran being “Damaged” in Gitmo is wrong.
I’ll grant that this state is currently a “blue” state. Not for long. In most polls 57% of the population believes that Rossi won the election. Much more than the % that actually voted for him. There is probably about 35% of the electorate in this state that will vote for D’s no matter what (about 70% of that in Seattle proper) and about 30% that will vote for R’s no matter what. The remaining 35% are willing to listen to the arguments and be swayed each election. This 35% is actually more conservative leaning when faced with specific issues. As evidenced by the initiatives passed in the last decade. Well, this entire fiasco has certainly strengthened the base 30% of the Republican Party in this state. It has also enlightened the 35% of “undecided” voters.
The Japanese won a victory at Pearl Harbor. With that victory, however, they realized that they “awoke a sleeping giant.” I’m positive that this sham of an election has awoken the “sleeping giant” of conservatives in this state.
Looks to me like you may have one the battle but will most assuredly loose the war.
Mark
Let’s see what the polls say now that the judge has deflated Rossi’s rhetoric machine. Or more importantly, what they say around 2008.
mark @ 211
“Most polls?” I only recall one that said that, and it was done by a Republican polling outfit (Strategic Vision). “Much more?” If you call 9% (57-48) “much more,” I guess…
And the same poll said that regardless of who they thought won, they ALSO believed she should remain as governor. I found the same thing to be true, in my research last week.
You might want to wait to see how the reaction from the trial shakes out. I was originally thinking it could have potential to harm the Ds, but the ruling was so strong and dismissive of the R’s complaints, I think the GOP may have lost their ability to press this issue with most independent voters.
“…That’s right… Republicans were demanding an act of judicial activism…”
The rest of the sentence reads: “…when Republicans know full well that only Democrats are allowed to use judicial activism. How dare they!”
Priscilla
Thanks for the reply. I had forgotten that this was not a typical lawsuit.
Glad, congradulations, I think you’re the first person I’ve ever seen claim that bullshit was OK because it constituted established fact.
Mark D @ 211: Keep telling yourself that if it helps you get through the long cold season of your discontent.
I don’t think any of this is going to matter at all in 2008. When that time comes, independent voters are going to cast their ballots based on Gregoire’s actual performance in office. The only folks casting a ballot based on a grudge they’ve been nursing for 3-1/2 years are going to be the hardcore right who would never vote for CG anyway.
Missed a word in the headline.
Should be “Judge Upholds Election Fraud”.
Reply to 210
Then why are you using racist language? Do you hate your relatives?
Even Rossi has more class than pbj, which isn’t saying much.
Carlson on KVI is blaming Rossi’s debacle on illegal alien voters in Arizona.
Carlson claims that 58% of the voters in an Arizona county bordering Mexico were illegal aliens, which he says proves that Rossi was robbed by illegals casting votes in Washington’s governor election.
John Carlson is a racist hate-spewing pig.
pbj @ 217
“Judge Upholds Election Fraud”
Your title is still not right. It should be: GOP Attempts Election Contest Fraud
Puddwhacker: Headless Lucy is a character that I made up. She doesn’t really exist, any more than Alice Cooper exists. I,ve used a dozen blog- de- plumes during this election thing and said pretty much the same thing as Headless says. Nobody got to tweaked about these other characters, but Headless—-WOW! People HATE Headless! They loathe her. Men hate her most of all. So y conclusion can only be that there is a good deal of misogyny out there. More than I realized
Reply to 204
“So the judge ruled against the Republicans. Means nothing,’
Means you lost.
Reply to 206
You’re saying opposites attract? If conservative women like strong men, they must be hanging out in liberal bars, because all the conservative men are blobbing in front of their TVs, feeding more beer to their pot bellies, and playing armchair colonel (or maybe just playing with themselves while their women are out in bars looking for real men) because I sure as hell don’t see any of them signing up to fight in Iraq.
What I meant to say is, conservatives fight their wars with OPC (other people’s children).
Reply to 209
To answer your question, “What about that comment is racist you ass? Nothing, it states a fact,” we must go all the way back to your original quote @ 48 which was, “More taxes, more spending, more waste, more school curriculum written with the help of Mexican President Fox, more business regulation.”
Let’s recap. You asked me what’s racist about it. It’s racist because the comment about Mexican President Fox writing the school curriculum makes a disparaging slam on an ethnic group. Which ethnic group is not hard to figure out, because you mention it: Mexicans.
In your defense, you claim that your disparaging slam on Mexicans “states a fact.” I’m quite skeptical that it’s a “fact” that Mexican President Fox has written ANY of our school curriculum, but in the interest of fair play, I’m offering you the opportunity to post your evidence that Mexican President Fox has written any of our school curriculum.
I await your reply, racist pig.
Racist Pig @ 209
“According to your logic (or should I say thinking – as it is not logical) it’s ok to have anyone from any country have their hands in our school system …”
I’m not sure where the “hands” factor into this. I think it’s ok for anyone from any country to have their kids in our school system. If they’re living here legally, working, and paying taxes, don’t they have the same rights of access to public education as the rest of us? Even if they’re here illegally, why punish their kids by denying them education? More to the point, very frequently the children of Mexican immigrants — whatever their legal status — were born here and therefore ARE U.S. CITIZENS entitled to the same rights and privileges (including public education) as all other U.S. citizens, you fucking dolt.
Oh, I forgot to mention in the paragraph above, that in addition to being a fucking dolt, you’re also a racist pig.
Comment on 210
Next time Goldy is on Carlson, he should call out Carlson on the bullshit Carlson was spewing yesterday that Rossi and Gorton were robbed by illegal alien votes, and Carlson’s claim that illegal alien voter registrations in an Arizona border county prove that droves of illegal aliens are voting in Washington.
Oh, and Goldy, you probably shouldn’t tell Carlson he’s a hate-spewing racist pig, even though he is, because if you do he might not invite you back again.
PISScilla –
First off, your a f’ing idiot. How you get racism out of my statement is amazing.
Pull your head out of your ass and read the following, which supports my statement and shows you to be an idiot, for jumping onto the racism bandwagon you stupid fuck.
http://access.wa.gov/news/2005....._7582.aspx
Gov. Gregoire, schools superintendent join president of Mexico in launching online-learning program
OLYMPIA — Gov. Christine Gregoire and Terry Bergeson, state superintendent of public instruction, yesterday joined Mexico’s President Vicente Fox and others in launching a web site and online resources that will allow 55,000 Latino students in Washington to take school classes online in Spanish.
The curriculum, which will include basic literacy and high-school-level subject matter that can apply toward graduation, has been produced in Spanish by the government of Mexico.
You think you are so smart but you’re a dumbshit.
Glad at 236,
You might want to be a little less vocal about other people’s alleged stupidity when your own behavior epitomizes it.
Clearly, you are clueless, so I’ll spell it out for you. You’ve objected to an educational program not based on its merits but because of whom you believe to have designed the program. In general, that’s an ad hominem argument, and when the basis of the ad hominem is a person’s race or ethnicity, then the ad hominem is racism.
Dipshit@237
Listen asswipe…. Fuck you. We are in America not Mexico or any other fucking country. Our school curriculum should be in ENGLISH not another language. It should be written by our government not anyone else’s, let alone Mexico. It does not make you a racist to criticize a countries education system. Would you send your kids to Mexico for their schooling? They can’t get their shit together and you’re ok with them writing our curriculum in their language. Do we have a French curriculum for the French speaking? The Japanese? The German? The Chinese? No they learn in our language with our established curriculum. Fuck making a special curriculum, what a waste of money and effort and it accomplishing nothing to better OUR society. You politically correct dipshits are afraid to stand up and say anything is wrong out of fear of being viewed racist or intolerant, except when it comes to attacking conservatives or Christianity or America. This program is wrong and believing so has nothing to do with racism, its common sense. I would not expect an English curriculum if I moved to a foreign country. I would expect that I would have to learn their language and that is what I would do. Why don’t we just print every public document in 1000 languages so as to not offend anyone? And come up with special education and social programs for all the different immigrant nationalities we have in America. Wouldn’t that be the right thing to do? Most immigrants to this country welcome learning our language and blending into our culture and don’t expect special treatment when they get here. They just want to be treated like the rest of America.
@ 238
Things didn’t turn out so well for your side did they – Chris? Who was right and who was wrong? Nice try – I take that back – bad, unthinking, blind try.