In a 7-2 decision released today, the Washington State Supreme Court dismissed the last four election contest lawsuits stemming from 2004’s disputed gubernatorial election.
Three of the contests were dismissed because they “fail to state a cognizable claim under the election contest statute.” The fourth contest, that filed by Suzanne D. Karr of Snohomish County was ruled to be identical to that already decided by Judge Bridges (you know… the one dismissed “with prejudice,”) and thus was barred under “the doctrine of res judicata.” The BIAW’s justices, Jim Johnson & Richard Sanders, both dissented on the fourth dismissal.
I’m not an attorney, and I haven’t studied the issue, so it’s really hard for me to comment on the validity of the dissenting opinion. But it does seem rather obvious that it would be unfeasible to allow multiple lawsuits on the same issues.
But as to the first three contests, well… they were downright silly. One contest argued that the constitutional guarantee of a “free and equal” election was violated by allowing Democrats to “purchase the right to a hand recount.” Uh-huh. Another contest argues that Gov. Gregoire is unfit for office because the petitioner’s severely autistic son was abused in foster care while Gregoire was AG. Okay. And the third contest asked the court to nullify the election because:
“The delta value of votes given to both candidates is exponentially within the tally’s margin of error, to the point that error must be assumed as a certainty, as given by three separate counts resulting in three different outcomes.”
Not that I should be dismissive. These arguments are at least as compelling as those brought forth by Dino Rossi’s attorneys.
But perhaps the most interesting tidbit in the decision is that which came in its conclusion:
The parties in the contests of Coday, Goodall, Karr, and Stevens have not raised the issue of this court’s jurisdiction to decide an election contest for governor. Article III, section 4, of the Washington Constitution says that election contests for statewide executives, including the governor, “shall be decided by the legislature in such manner as shall be determined by law.” We have assumed, without deciding, that chapter 29A.68 RCW confers jurisdiction on this court to decide the present election contests. We reserve the right to consider the question of whether the constitution gives the legislature exclusive jurisdiction over governor’s election contests if it is properly raised at some future time.
So… the Court is expressly leaving open the question of whether any court actually had the jurisdiction to hear this contest in the first place. Hmm.
Another contest argues that Gov. Gregoire is unfit for office because the petitioner’s severely autistic son was abused in foster care while Gregoire was AG. Okay.
And that boy’s name is Dino Rossi
re 1: Kind of x-plains that perpetual empty grin on Rossi’s face.
LOL
lol, and all the time I thought it was referring to Chris Vance
so…you are thrilled that because of a court decision after some really dirty politics…she “won”?
then you should be thrilled that president bush is our president ,right?
it cuts both ways, doesn’t it.
this has to be the most innane post of the year.
re 5: WA Republicans have got to be the most inept and transparently dishonest bunch of self-absorbed , self-serving creeps I’ve ever seen. Jim West is typical of the wrongheaded and self-defeating behavior of this pathetic party.
Here’s a great idea! Why not run an insurance exec. who fired 3000people for Senator! Barney Fife died and I know who inherited the bullet. And , you’re correct.
Take the bullet OUT of the gun before someone gets hurt.
Leave it to the right wing to file frivolous lawsuit after frivolous lawsuit…
I’m not an attorney, and I haven’t studied the issue, so it’s really hard for me to comment on the validity of the dissenting opinion.
That never stops the minnow. Of course, he is almost always wrong when he attempts to practice law without a license. For example:
http://www.soundpolitics.com/a.....tml#005756
You can see some of those loony arguments plus others even more ludicrous at (un)SP just about every day.
Stefan beleives any official that gets elected that isn’t one he wants is 1) probably illegitimate and 2) deserving of derision (hence his refusal to call her Governor.
If I were a republican, I’d encourage Stefan to get a clue. His childish reactions don’t play well in the courts, as you point out, and even worse in the court of public opinion.
this has to be the most innane post of the year.
Ghost, everytime you come here you say that – more of the same sore-losing, sour grapes.
If the shoe had been on the other foot, Rossi would have done the exact same thing and the wingnuts would be totally gloating and dismissive towards the “angry left”.
Your candidate lost and it appears you’ll never “get over it”.
It’s time for the right to move forward and try to buy the state Supreme Court.
Stefan has painted Logan into a corner. Logan won’t release a FUNDAMENTAL public record….the transaction log. It shows ALL entries into the King County database, when they were made & by whom. Stefan is a professional Statistical Analyst and Database Manager. He systematically received copies of databases from King County along with other records to provide benchmarks. The last step is the transaction log. It’s a FUNDAMENTAL public record.
Look, if you guys think Stefan is so full of shit, call or e-mail Logan and tell him to release the Public Records. It’s been over 5 months!! Afraid of what they might show??? Stefan is a chessmaster. He can think numerous moves ahead. Logan is an arrogant, pinheaded bureaucrat who was out-gunned mentally & technically.
There are Double Voters identified who were stupid enough to register under the same name, same birthday in 2 different County’s and vote. Those are the easiest to ID.
Those who slightly altered registration data…or voted others ballots are a whole lot tougher. But some of those have surfaced too.
Trash Stefan all you want morons…just don’t ever play chess with him for money!
clueless@11…..ah, but here is the difference. i would NOT have supported rossi doing the same thing. and i have noticed that there are many more republicans that feel that way….but, no democrats.
i wanted a clean election.[that would be the will of the people..does that phrase not ring any bells for you?] you guys just wanted to win.
the motto of the DNC everywhere?
THE END JUSTIFIES THE MEANS.
and lucy….jim west? that’s the best you’ve got? talk about pathetic.
let me explain it for you before you use that lame example yet again. jim west was “just a closeted gay man that the left-leaning press outed” just like billy clinton “just had sex…big deal”
they both broke laws. but here is the difference. you don’t see republicans trying to get people like west or cunningham off the hook JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE REPUBLICANS….or at all…..
can you really say that about your “party”…the one that never met a democrat that committed a crime? teddy “the murderer” kennedy and robert “kkk” byrd…..
yup…it’s a real thinker.
[you guys have no integrity and you can scream and stamp your feet all you want but you will never win the whitehouse this next time around. that’s why you’re screaming….you and i both know it.]
barney fife? you are such a fool….there is no point in even asking you where on earth you were trying to go with that one.you’ll notice that you don’t exactly have a cheering section EVEN here, do you?
less t.v….. more reading for you? it’s a plan.
i should add that even rossi didn’t want that…he wanted another vote.
so what would have been the problem with that, hmmmm?
and don’t even bother to say that it would cost too much…..even your cronies would fall over laughing at that.
and good point [as usual] cynical. if there is nothing to hide…why are they hiding it?????
Was the burden of proof judged as determination of how the challeged voter actually voted?
In a secret ballot election?
Yeah right!
Hail the Queen!
BTW: I-601 got busted YET AGAIN.
ALSO: Now we REALLY are TOUGH on drunk drivers ::rolls eyes::
While Sanders’ reasoning is superficially attractive — Suzanne Karr was not a party to the “Borders” lawsuit, therefore shouldn’t be denied her day in court just because someone else litigated the same issues — the practical result would be that every adult in the state could file separate lawsuits to contest the same election, and according to Sanders, the courts would have to hear all of them. That’s not workable, nor does it make any sense, if the same issues have already been decided.
In addition, even though Karr’s suit might be heard in a different county, any appeals would ultimately all end up in the same court — the Washington Supreme Court — where they would undoubtedly by consolidated anyway.
Furthermore, there is precedent (which Sanders and Johnson failed to follow) for the majority’s ruling, which says, “where
‘nominally different parties’ pursue causes of action as voters, on behalf of the body politic generally, such parties have been found to ‘have sufficiently identical interests to satisfy the “identity of parties” inquiry’ because they possess ‘the same legal interests as all citizens of the state.’ In re Recall of Pearsall-Stipek, 136 Wn.2d 255, 261, 961 P.2d
343 (1998); accord Snyder v. Munro, 106 Wn.2d 380, 384, 721 P.2d 962 (1986) (holding that ‘all citizens of Washington state were well represented in’ a prior suit brought by the leaders of the state Democratic and Republican organizations and state government officials, and that therefore res judicata barred registered voters from raising the same claim in a subsequent action). While Karr was not a participant in the Borders case, she is acting in the same capacity, and has the same legal interest, as the participants in that case. Like the contestants in the Borders case, Karr is an elector,
pursing an election contest qua elector pursuant to chapter 29A.68 RCW. Furthermore, her interest is identical to that of the Borders contestants and of all citizens of the state: ensuring a fair, just, and accurate election. She is, therefore, an identical party to the Borders contestants
for res judicata purposes.”
This may be a bit deep for Jim Johnson’s intellect (but it’s definitely not too deep for Sanders’ intellect — Sanders knows better), but if you reflect on it for a while, you should be able to grasp the logic of the majority’s reasoning (and the illogic of Sanders’ reasoning) — and you don’t have to be a lawyer to understand it, because it’s not based on technical interpretation of a statute, it’s based on common sense.
To put it another way, it’s somewhat analogous to the rationale behind class action lawsuits: If the issues are identical, a member of the class capable of arguing the case well, is treated as representing the entire class, so the same case doesn’t have to be litigated over and over, which is cumbersome and a waste of judicial resources, and more importantly, would frustrate one of the law’s most important functions: Bringing closure and finality to controversies.
The majority is right; Sanders and Johnson are wrong.
As to the jurisdictional issue, Justice Alexander’s statement, “We have assumed, without deciding, that chapter 29A.68 RCW confers jurisdiction on this court to decide the present election contests. This does not, however, answer the ultimate question of who makes the final decision about certifying an election[,]” is a bit enigmatic, but I don’t read very much into it.
Superficially, it signals there may be a jurisdiction issue the court didn’t address because no party raised it. However, I think we can safely assume that if the court lacks jurisdiction to decide a case, it will say so on its own motion even if no party raised it, as opposed to deciding a case it lacks power to decide. It’s equally obvious the court — not the legislature — is the proper body to deal with issues involving trial court procedures, evidentiary rulings, etc. If the appellate court thinks the legislature, not the superior court, should have heard the election contest case, then the appellate court should dismiss the case without discussion of merits or trial court rulings. You simply don’t get past discussing the jurisdiction issue, if the trial court had no jurisdiction. So I don’t know exactly what this dicta is intended to signal, but I think where it may be going is nothing more complicated than saying the legislature gets final say and the court will not hear lawsuits to contest a legislative certification of election as opposed to lawsuits to contest county or SoS certifications submitted to the legislature for final certification.
the state’s appellate courts clearly have the authority and duty to hear and decide issues relating to a lower court’s handling of an election contest lawsuit, even if only to affirm a trial court’s dismissal of a contest suit. Questions involving trial court procedure, evidentiary rulings, and so on, also obviously are within the scope and purview of appellate review.
5
Dirty politics by WHO??? Not by Gregoire, or the Democrats. There was only one party and candidate practicing dirty politics — the GOP and Dino.
5
Tell me again who the four illegal votes were for?
(Hint: All four illegal votes thrown out by Judge Bridges were for the GOP candidate, Dino Rossi. Gregoire was not proved in court to have received a single illegal vote.)
8
Snark knows as much about law as I know about computer programming. (snicker) (snort) … (bunny laugh) (chortle) …
HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR
10
“His childish reactions don’t play well in the courts … and even worse in the court of public opinion.”
More power to him. I hope he does more of it.
XGhost @ 14:
i would NOT have supported rossi doing the same thing. and i have noticed that there are many more republicans that feel that way….but, no democrats.
Uh-huh, sure. And who is it that filed with the US Supreme Court in the 2000 elections?
13
“Trash Stefan all you want morons…just don’t ever play chess with him for money! Commentby Mr. Cynical— 3/9/06@ 2:50 pm”
What does that have to do with anything? I wouldn’t even play with my kids for money, I’m a lousy chess player. I put my time and effort into studying law, not chess. I never had time to become a good chess player. I don’t know if Stefan can play chess, and who cares? What the fuck does that have to do with anything?
Bobby Fischer is a terrific chess player, but he doesn’t know shit about election laws or paying taxes.
XGhost @ 14:
but here is the difference. you don’t see republicans trying to get people like west or cunningham off the hook JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE REPUBLICANS….
Uh-huh, did you happen to see the party line vote today in the Senate committee not to investigate Bush for possibly breaking the law in regards to the domestic wiretap spying scandal?
14
“i would NOT have supported rossi doing the same thing.”
Bedsheet Idiot, are you trying to tell us Rossi wouldn’t have requested a recount? Bullshit.
Are you trying to tell us Rossi wouldn’t have gathered signatures to validate ballots? I have news for you — he did.
Are you trying to tell us Rossi wouldn’t have contested a close election in court … ?
Ummm, what exactly ARE you trying to say Rossi wouldn’t have done … ???
XGhost @ 14:
the one that never met a democrat that committed a crime? teddy “the murderer” kennedy and robert “kkk” byrd…..
yup…it’s a real thinker.
[you guys have no integrity and you can scream and stamp your feet all you want but you will never win the whitehouse this next time around.
Uh-huh, shall I run through the extensive list of conservatives that are serving time, being tried, under indictment, criminal investigation or simply morally bankrupt?
15
“i should add that even rossi didn’t want that…he wanted another vote.”
You don’t get another vote. The law gives you two recounts, and no revotes. If you don’t like that, change the law … just make sure you change it in Florida and Ohio, too.
Ghost – the law doesn’t allow another vote as a remedy. Dino Rossi can’t call for another vote because he feels like it. Another vote is wrong to boot. Politicians get one shot at power and only one at the appropriate time – the outcome is determined by a count of the votes and can be set aside by the courts only as specified in the law.
A revote was just another name for a nasty negative campaign against King County – something you and your friends at (un)SP are intimately familiar with – utterly dishonest.
If Rossi really wanted to win he should have gotten the voters to know him and his positions better, assuming they were worth anything. That might have translated into more votes for him. Now we do know more about him and his ties to the BIAW.
He doesn’t have a prayer now. If a Republican wants to win statewide office here they’d better cut off the BIAW which is a corrupt organization with a bankrupt ideology.
XGhost @ 15:
and don’t even bother to say that it would cost too much…..even your cronies would fall over laughing at that.
Uh-huh, did you happen to read why the conservatives didn’t want to depose the felons in the Rossi trial in Judge Bridges court room? Chris Vance said it would cost too much, even though it would be a fraction of the cost of another election.
16
Fortunately for the Republicans, Jack, Judge Bridges did NOT decide the GOP had a burden of proving how voters actually voted.
Unfortunately for the Republicans, Jack, Judge Bridges concluded the GOP had no proof at all.
16
Whiner. Sore loser. Looooooooooooooooooooooser.
It is an interesting decision. But Suzanne Karr really didn’t have the resources to pursue her case. Although she probably had better legal ideas on some points than the attorneys on the GOP team. For example, Karr wanted to have the convicted felons and other illegal voters testify about who they voted for, but said she didn’t have the financial resources to make this happen.
Presumably, the next time there are multiple election contest lawsuits filed, the courts should order them all consolidated into a single lawsuit. Pro se folks like Suzanne Karr can participate on equal footing with the big money litigants with the hot shot lawyers.
The jurisdictional issue is interesting. It appears that the state constitution clearly vests this matter in the legislature. But the GOP didn’t actually move the legislature to try the election contest. The vote was on whether to delay certification pending the resolution of the superior court election contest lawsuit.
I am surprised that no one ever filed a federal court lawsuit using 42 USC 1983 — which allows for violations of federal law and federal constitution to be raised in federal courts (or even in state court for that matter). The case law is pretty clear that unlawful votes violate the constitutional rights of lawful voters. More legal remedies would have been available, and the GOP could have recovered its attorney fees.
Roger Rabbit @ 19:
Minor correction, There were 5 felon votes, 4 for Rossi one for the loser-tarian, ZERO, ZIP, NADA, NONE for Governor Gregoire.
Let the public court records show that 4 out 5 felons vote Republican.
The bottom line is Washington has enough idiot voters to let a guy who chose to work for a convicted felon, and whose only supervision experience consisted of supervising one part-time janitor when he was a college student, get within 150 votes of running a $15 billion a year enterprise that employs over 100,000 people.
Idiots. Rossi voters are idiots. No other word for it.
33
My mistake. I stand corrected.
RR @ 35:
Well, you weren’t really wrong, you did say 4 felons voted GOP. I just didn’t want anyone to think the 5th felon vote went Democrat.
Felony voters, felony politicians; they just seem to go hand-in-hand these days.
Chris Vance said it would cost too much, even though it would be a fraction of the cost of another election.
Just like a Republican – someone else always has to pay.
Belltowner @ 1
Actually, the person who filed that challenge was Michael J. Goodall. Assuming that his severely autistic child was abused in foster care, that may have some bearing on Gregoire’s fitness to be Governor. Washington doesn’t do nearly as much for children with autism and other development issues as most states. And there have been a lot of lawsuits against the state on these types of issues, which have cost the state tens of millions of dollars. Of course, these kinds of things are reasons not to elect Gregoire, and not reasons to challenge the validity of the election results.
I was searching for news articles on Mr. Goodall, and I came across this one in the November 2, 2005 Seattle Times:
http://archives.seattletimes.n.....ry=goodall
Seems that Mr. Goodall was staging a peaceful protest against Mrs. Gregoire in downtown Seattle on June 15, 2005. Goodall made some rhetorical comment about Gregoire, and was arrested by Gregoire’s state police officers five days later. Goodall was tried in King County Superior Court in November 2005 for felong charges of allegedly threatening to kill Gregoire, and was acquitted.
This just goes to show that Christine Gregoire is a fascist who doesn’t like political opposition very much. Presumably this frivilous criminal charge also had something to do with Goodall’s lawsuit challenging Gregoire’s election.
How would you feel if Goldy got charged with a crime for his various rhetorical comments on this blog, which could be construed as advocating violence or death to certain politicians or public figures? You would be calling the Bush administration, U.S. Attorney, FBI and Homeland Security fascists if they dared to file such frivolous criminal charges against Goldy for expressing what is clearly hyberbole and protected speech.
Trash Stefan all you want morons…just don’t ever play chess with him for money!
Let me see.. This is the same guy who predicted Bridges would rule for the Republicans – said it was a slam-dunk.
I don’t know BOZO. I really feel sorry for you. Your nose has been planted in this guy’s rear-end for so long…
Bobby Fischer is a terrific chess player,
And a virulent anti-Semite. Hey BOZO, there you go. Compare the One whose butt you kiss to the Grandmaster Fischer!
You might get banned!
Bobby Fischer an anti-Semite? Isn’t the fellow Jewish?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B.....arly_years
Robert James Fischer was born in Chicago, Illinois, to Regina Wender, a naturalized American citizen of Jewish Polish ancestry who was born in Switzerland, raised in St. Louis, Missouri, and later became a teacher, registered nurse and physician. His father was reportedly Wender’s first husband, Hans-Gerhardt Fischer, a German biophysicist; the couple married in 1933 in Moscow, U.S.S.R., where Wender was studying medicine at the First Moscow Medical Institute. Though Hans-Gerhardt Fischer is listed as the father on Robert Fischer’s birth certificate, a 2002 article in The Philadelphia Inquirer stated that Fischer’s biological father was Paul Felix Nemenyi, a Hungarian Jewish physicist who fled Europe after the Nazis came to power. Nemenyi paid child support for Fischer during his infancy and early childhood. Later, FBI research determined that although Fischer’s mother had returned to the United States from the Soviet Union in 1939, her first husband never entered the country after that date, making it improbable that Fischer, born in 1943, was Hans-Gerhardt Fischer’s child. Although at least one of his parents was Jewish, Fischer has vehemently denied being a Jew in several public interviews, and blames the mischaracterization on a “Jewish conspiracy” to defame him. Fischer has noted that his outspoken nature comes from his Jewish mother.
41 – He’s an anti-semite all right. I’ve heard his rants on his website. Had to take a shower afterwards. He actually was thrilled when 9/11 happened and said America and the Jews had it coming.
What a nutcase.
FTC @ 42
I didn’t say that Bobby Fischer wasn’t an anti-Semite. Just sort of amazed that he is both Jewish and an anti-Semite. Apparently, this combination is fairly common.
Anyway, liberals should like Fischer, since he has denounced President George W. Bush as a criminal and has vowed never to return to the United States so long as the Republicans are in power.
FTC @ 39
You know a conservative is in deep shit trouble when they use the “it’s a slam dunk” phrase.
Thanks for the reminder and the laugh.
@ 43
Bobby Fischer actually said that about Bush???
HOLY SHIT!! Where do I get a Bobby Fischer T-shirt?
It’ll go nicely with my “Meet the Fuckers” T-shirt.
And, my “Conservatives: The Culture of Corruption party” T-shirt.
Richard @38,
Exactly which comments? Other than satirically parroting Ann Coulter, I’m having a hard time remembering anything I might have written that could reasonably be construed as advocating violence.
Where’s all the right-wing rants? I was hoping for a more target rich environment.
I think these 4 suits were completely frivolous, and should have been dismissed.
The Rossi challange was his right, and was done IAW with Washington law, and was decided against him. He moved.
Everyone else should too.
Roger Rabbit @25
Bedsheet Idiot,
[Roger, you trying to bed a woman? If so, refrain from the idiot part. In fact, the bedsheet thingy is not helpful either…]
I may be far out of line (not surprising), but I believe Christmasghost was referring to actually pursuing the paid recount portion. Rossi was ahead at the second count. The paid recount (as provided by law) was an onus for the candidate behind. Had it been Rossi, he would have been highly intelligent to declare Gregoire the winner rather than spend the money to affirm his loss.
Goldy @ 46
In your post about Ann Coulter, you said that you were “only joking”, meaning that you were not really advocating lethal violence.
http://www.horsesass.org/index.php?p=1343
Michael Goodall likewise said that he was not advocating lethal violence against Mrs. Gregoire, but was only engaging in political hyperbole and rhetoric.
No one in the Bush administration had you prosecuted for your posting, nor should they have done so either. But the Gregoire administration had Mr. Goodall frivolously prosecuted for an alleged felony crime.
So exactly who is the fascist who tries to clamp down on free speech and political dissent — President Bush or Mrs. Gregoire?
(Don’t forget Mrs. Gregoire’s press conference about a year or so ago, where she said that talk radio was stirring up people to threaten her with violence.)
I’d like to hear more about the approximately 1600 votes the republicans alledgedly hid the firsttime through in KC.
Tree Frog Farmer @ 51,
They hid them so good nobody could find them…
TFF @ 51
Aren’t you actually thinking about the fact that there were about 1600 more ballots cast in King County, than there were voters credited with casting them?
GBS…it may surprise you to know that one of your statements …that there are more GOP crooks than democrat…….is absolutely wrong. i was just reading a very interesting list today put together by an investigative reporter who was trying to prove exactly what you said. unfortunately for him [and you] it proved to be false….by quite a bit. i will try to find the link for you.
but here is something perhaps you and i can both agree on.in today’s political climate [especially] why would anyone want to go into politics? ask yourself that.
i would be willing to guess that the people that actually go into politics for strictly pure reasons, i.e. wanting to make a positive difference without gaining anything for themselves, are less than one percent.the rest are power and/or money hungry control freaks. dishonest and politician are pretty much the same thing.
so …what we the voters are left with is choosing the best of the worst. sad…but true.
and to be honest about it, until we can all stop looking at the letter after a candidate’s name ,or base our decision on who to vote for based on who is running the best popularity contest we will continue to be saddled with the trent lotts, teddy kennedys, robert byrds and ron sims of this world. they make decisions that affect every aspect of our lives and yet most of the populace is not doing any research into what kind of person they really are.
you want to scare politicians into behaving and doing a good job no matter what party they are from?
start to really watch them and see them for who they really are.
not just the press releases.
during the governor’s fiasco the politicians were thrilled that the voters were at each other’s throats. they like it that way. no one is watching what they are up to then.
sitting behind paul berendt was an enlightening experience….to say the least. he sat there making a whispered verbal list to his blonde bimbo assistant about who owed what favors to him and who could be “depended”[wink wink] upon.it was not only sad…it was smarmy to the max.
i don’t think either party has the smarmy market cornered…but in my opinion the dems are worse. having said that i never vote by party. i do my research and vote for who i think will do a good job.
unfortunatey there are way too many “headless lucys'” out there that have their head in the trough and are looking for a handout.
example….. do you know how gray davis got elected to the governor’s office here in california? he promised caltrans workers a big pay raise [which he didn’t deliver BTW] and that got him the votes.
so until voters start thinking more big picture and less about themselves[ and screw everyone else] politicians will be able to run these games. we ask for it…and we get it.
No, there were allegations of trays of votes not counted in the first run through. Nothing about the BS Stefan came up with. If those trays had been counted, there would have been no contest.
As always, Christmasghost @54, best wishes. Have you had any luck with your niece?
(BTW-@49 was meant in a better way, but I am not good at this stuff)…
I’d like to hear more about the approximately 1600 votes the republicans alledgedly hid the firsttime through in KC.
Commentby Tree Frog Farmer— 3/9/06@ 5:25 pm
Tree Frog Farmer @ 51,
They hid them so good nobody could find them…
Commentby marks— 3/9/06@ 5:37 pm
Oh- Are you talking about the military absentee ballots thrown out by KC? What 1600 number are you talking about?
Or are you talking about the ballots the donks found at the second recount? WOW!!! They didn’t find them in the first recount but when it mattered they found them. What a coinky dink.
Karl @ 48 re Rossi, and I quote: “He moved. Everyone else should too.”
What? Where did he (Rossi) go?
Or are you referring to bowel movements? If so, I agree. Regular movements are a good thing.
“so…you are thrilled that because of a court decision after some really dirty politics…she “won”?
then you should be thrilled that president bush is our president ,right?
it cuts both ways, doesn’t it.
this has to be the most innane post of the year.”
Commentby christmasghost
yes….your post was the most innane of the year….
we won. you lost.
shape of things to come.
Or are you talking about the ballots the donks found at the second recount? WOW!!! They didn’t find them in the first recount but when it mattered they found them. What a coinky dink.
Commentby RUFUS— 3/9/06@ 8:08 pm
Rufus we do not have elections, that is to hide the real Socialist Democrats intent. Washington has coronation
59
moved on….my bad.
Stefan bans people who disagree with him. He’s a fascist.
32
“Suzanne Karr really didn’t have the resources to pursue her case.”
It helps to have a couple million in loose change. Honestly, Richard, I think the fact average citizens with legitimate issues can no longer afford to access the court system is a much bigger problem than the Suzanne Karrs of the world not being able to use the courts to overturn the votes of 3 million people.
And the fact a growing number of average citizens can no longer access the health care system is an even bigger problem! Frankly, our private health system is so bad that many of us would be better off under Fidel’s health system. That’s how bad our capitalist, profit-driven health system is.
MTR’s invisible hand, when it’s not busy in MTR’s lap, says “screw you” to 45 million Americans who can’t afford health insurance.
36
“Felony voters, felony politicians; they just seem to go hand-in-hand these days. Commentby GBS— 3/9/06@ 3:51 pm”
What if it turns out we can’t vote them out? What if they get control of the election machinery and can alter or erase or votes at will? Then I see only two options:
Passive resistance
Liberals must arm
Now ask yourself how well passive resistance worked for 6 million Jews.
And don’t forget howt many Republicans applaud when Ann Coulter says liberals should be killed. Go ahead, tell yourself she’s a blowhard, this is just their idea of a sick joke — at your peril.
38
“Goodall made some rhetorical comment about Gregoire, and was arrested …”
Yeah, he said: “I’m going to kill Christine Gregoire.” Hey Richard, why don’t you go to the federal courthouse, stand on the sidewalk, and make the same “rhetorical comment” about Bush — and see what happens to you. Not to worry, we have free speech in this country — right?
You are living proof that idiots can become lawyers. I used to think you had to be smart to be a lawyer, but I was wrong. All you need is a masochistic streak and a capacity for rote memorization.
As for why the jury acquitted Gooddall, that’s an interesting question. I’d be willing to bet that jury split along Democrat-Republican lines. Which raises another interesting question: Is the country now so polarized that jury verdicts on cases ranging from tort claims to crimes will be based on the partisan orientation of the jurors instead of the facts and law?
Believe me, I’ve thought about this. What if right wingers got so much control of our society that all the cops, prosecutors, and judges were right wingers? What if they gave a free pass to right wing death squads, or right wing partisans who assaulted or killed liberals, but jailed or executed liberals who used force or even resisted violent attacks against their persons?
In that scenario, liberals would have only two options: Kill, or be killed.
I can readily see how we could get there. Our democratic system is fragile. It has survived 225 years based on the consent of the governed. But now we have a faction that does not consent to be governed unless they can make the rules. And they want to impose their rules on the rest of us, too. We’ve already witnessed their willingness to violate international treaties and standards of decency, the Constitution, and federal laws. Basically what they’re saying is, we’re going to get our way, and we’ll stop at nothing to get it. And they stand up and cheer when Ann Coulter says in a speech that liberals should be put in concentration camps or killed. If this social cancer metastasizes, it can lead to only one result — collapse of our government, society, and economy; chaos and anarchy; and a prolonged, savage, and very bloody civil war. Millions, perhaps tens of millions, of Americans will die by the hands of their fellow Americans. That is where right wing extremists are taking us.
Is it too soon to put them on trial for treason and crimes against humanity? Do we have to wait until piles of dead lie in the streets before we can hold them accountable?
That, my dear Richard, is why juries should not acquit people like Mr. Gooddall. I respect the right of free speech far more than any Republican does, but even I think speech has limits, and I think Mr. Gooddall belongs behind bars.
Question for you, Richard: Would you argue for the same result if Mr. Gooddall had said, “I’m going to kill Governor Rossi?”
Or do you think it’s okay for him to publicly threaten to kill a Democratic governor, but it’s a crime if he threatens to kill a Republican governor?
60
“so…you are thrilled that because of a court decision after some really dirty politics…she ‘won’?”
Yes, because all the dirty politics was on your side.
38
So Richard, are you in favor of raising taxes so we can spend more money on autistic children? Who the hell do you think was blocking social spending from 1994 until last year? Hey Richard, which party had a majority in the state senate until January 2005? You are a dolt.
38
No, you are slimeball. Furthermore, I voted for your OPPONENTS in your races for attorney general and port commissioner. I mention it just to rub your face in it.
38
Hey Richard, let’s play a little game of pretend.
Let’s pretend YOU were elected attorney general. Would the state have spent more on autistic children under Attorney General Richard Pope?
Suppose Mr. Gooddall had said, “I’m going to kill Richard Pope.” Do you think he should get off for that? Would you feel safe with him on the streets? Would you buy a gun?
39
Hey! While we’re posting the clown picture, let’s not forget Mr. Cynical! http://www.acclaimimages.com/_.....-5258.html
43
“Anyway, liberals should like Fischer, since he has denounced President George W. Bush as a criminal and has vowed never to return to the United States so long as the Republicans are in power. Commentby Richard Pope— 3/9/06@ 4:28 pm”
He’s a better fit with the anarchists, but in any event, the USA Fascist Party can have it.
I mean, the USA Fascist Party can have him.
Where’s all the right-wing rants? I was hoping for a more target rich environment.
Commentby GBS— 3/9/06@ 4:43 pm
We can make do with Richard @38.
Reply to 45
try this web site: http://www.outspokenclothing.c...../political
49
Try walking around with a bedsheet over your head. You can be a ghost too.
49
The downside is you can’t see a damn thing and have no idea where you’re going.
50
Richard, just so there’s no misunderstanding about this — if Ann Coulter kicks in my door and announces she’s arresting me for being a Democrat, I’m going to exercise my lawful right of self-defense to the full extent permitted by law. Wait, no, I’m only kidding. No wait, I’m serious. Wait … oh, you figure it out.
50
Ann Coulter has publicly stated she wants to kill liberals. I’m a liberal. That means she wants to kill me. If she comes to my house, her intent will be inferred, and … yes, I’m entitled to believe she means what she says. And then …
Likewise, Gregoire and the State Patrol were entitled to believe Mr. Gooddall meant what he said. There is nothing rhetorical about saying, “I’m going to kill Christine Gregoire.” There’s no room for interpretation here, Richard, because the statement is clear and unambiguous.
What the hell were those jurors thinking? I would like to know which ones voted for conviction, and which ones voted for acquittal, and whether those voting for acquittal are Republican partisans. I would lay money on that. Richard, if they acquitted Gooddall because of partisanship, and in disregard of the evidence and the law, would you agree that constitutes jury misconduct? It sure smells like it.
50
“(Don’t forget Mrs. Gregoire’s press conference about a year or so ago, where she said that talk radio was stirring up people to threaten her with violence.)”
Turns out she was right.
53
“Aren’t you actually thinking about the fact that there were about 1600 more ballots cast in King County, than there were voters credited with casting them? Commentby Richard Pope— 3/9/06@ 5:37 pm”
THIS discredited issue again??? Since the only database in existence at the time is not valid for testing this hypothesis, I am asking you to prove it, because I know you can’t.
54
I’ll eschew arguing the details with you and simply state that I prefer our crooks to your crooks.
49
“Had it been Rossi, he would have been highly intelligent to declare Gregoire the winner rather than spend the money to affirm his loss. Commentby marks— 3/9/06@ 5:10 pm”
It would have been even more highly intelligent for Rossi to have employed lawyers smarter than the ones who decided not to submit the signatures the Republicans collected to validate Republican votes.
My understanding is the GOP, although they started their signature drive late, collected about 250 signatures. Because the GOP lawyers were in court trying to get the Democrat “signature ballots” thrown out (they lost), they made a tactical decision to not turn in their signatures.
The Democrats collected roughly 1000 signatures and about 700 of them were valid. Applying the same percentage to the GOP signatures, which necessarily requires a degree of assumption or speculation, what is 70% of 250? My calculator says 175. What was Gregoire’s victory margin again? 133? What is 133 – 175? Who would have won if Rossi’s lawyers had exercised, shall we call it, a more competent tactical judgment?
And they paid TWO MILLION DOLLARS for that????
HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR
Hell, if I were Vance, I would have refused to pay.
HEY RIGHTIES WHY DON’T YOU SEND A DONATION TO DIANE TEBELIUS TO HELP THE WSRP PAY ITS LEGAL DEBTS? YOU DON’T WANT ROSSI’S LAWYERS GOING HUNGRY, DO YOU? FIGHT POVERTY, DONATE TODAY!!!
HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR
Roger Rabbit @ 66
“many of us would be better off under Fidel’s health system.”
Really? Maybe we can encourage a blood donation drive for liberals.
“On May 27, [1966,] 166 Cubans — civilians and members of the military — were executed and submitted to medical procedures of blood extraction of an average of seven pints per person. This blood is sold to Communist Vietnam at a rate of $50 per pint with the dual purpose of obtaining hard currency and contributing to the Vietcong Communist aggression.
“A pint of blood is equivalent to half a liter. Extracting this amount of blood from a person sentenced to death produces cerebral anemia and a state of unconsciousness and paralysis. Once the blood is extracted, the person is taken by two militiamen on a stretcher to the location where the execution takes place.”
— InterAmerican Human Rights Commission, April 7, 1967
http://www.netforcuba.org/News.....ews894.htm
Where are the trolls?
Roger Rabbit @ 87
“What the hell were those jurors thinking? I would like to know which ones voted for conviction, and which ones voted for acquittal, and whether those voting for acquittal are Republican partisans. I would lay money on that.”
Mr. Goodall was ACQUITTED. It takes an unanimous jury verdict to acquit someone. NO JURORS VOTED FOR CONVICTION. Which law school did you graduate from?
The City of Seattle is spending a good chunk of change to provide “Planned Parenthood” medical services for Rabbits. Is Roger Rabbit going to take advantage of this wonderful Democrat social program?
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re 96: So, Richard, if you needed blood you could just get it from reactionary traitors for free. Good deal!!!
XGhost @ 54:
GBS…it may surprise you to know that one of your statements …that there are more GOP crooks than democrat…….is absolutely wrong.
“Surprise” me? That is the understatement of the year.
I’ll be interested to see that “link” if you get around to posting it. I’ll check it out and see how legitimate it is. Then, I’ll post a list of Republicans who are in prison, on trial, under indictment, criminal investigation, or suspicion. We’ll see whose list is longer.
While I’ll agree with you there’s no perfect party, it’s laughable to think there are more Democrats in legal jeopardy right now than Republicans. The judge in the Jack Abramoff case has said that they must “name names” this month in regards to those related to his bribery scandal.
What are the odds that Abramoff will name more Democrats than Republicans????? Baaa haaa haaa haaa. I’ll take any wager up to $5,000 on that bet if you’d like; all comers.
BTW: that bet is open to ANY one who wants to take it. Seriously. We can put the money in an escrow account.
In fact, I doubt he’ll name one Democrat. And, if that turns out to be the case, no Dem’s mentioned, well, you can just say good-bye to controlling congress.
I saw a news story this morning in which Abramoff said ALL of his political contributions were to Republicans and NO Democrats took money from him.
The bet stands at 102!!
Any one want to take the wager???
I’m betting Ambramoff will NOT name more Democrats than Republicans in his illegal bribery scandal.
Anyone?
Tell you what; I’ll give 2:1 odds. My $5,000 against yours. You win and I pay $10,000, you only risk $5,000.
Now, any takers?
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6 — Three or more Cheers
I must compliment Richard. Of all the things I have read on all the bloggs of any genre – the Cuba Blood article is simply so wild —- Y O U — A R E — the winner Richard.
It does make some practical sense, but is just so vampirish, again, thanks. What about harvesting body parts as Chaper Two? Did they?
I have new respect for the internet and search modes. Richard, tell us how you found this. And is it some sort of hobby thing – goulish moments in world history.
Or just freaking out – as in stuff for Believe it or Not.
Good work Richard, more. Though, RR will feel jilted, beware.
Above refers to 95 — sill amazed.
When I was in college and desperatly broke, I sold blood to the plasma center. During that period I got a horrible bout of Hep.- sick as a dog for months. Took years for me to link dirty needles at Plasma Outflow Services to my hep. Should have sued. I was very, very sick.
Worse,because I am gay, the impliation was that I had ingested fecal matter. To put it politely. So my character was impuned and I felt vaugely guilty for being so foolish, but wondered about the facts – cause that was not my game at all.
Oh well, I digress. Sat. am TV is really crap. But a stunning sunrise. The world is renewed once again.
Bob–
What type of Hepatitis did you have?
It is very commonly transmitted among gays….but also many other ways to get it.
Are you saying you had no homeosexual relationships prior to get this Hepatitis? You must know that Hepatitis can take YEARS to show serious symptoms after you have been infected.
PS Is this another thing you are PROUD of as a Gay Male….transmitting Hepatitis?? How do you know you didn’t infect someone else?
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