Um… what the headline says. Sen. Bill Finkbeiner has confirmed to reporters that he intends to vote for the anti-discrimination bill when it is reintroduced this session.
Last session HB 1515 failed by a single vote, and Finkbeiner’s reversal should assure passage. However, insiders expect at least one to four additional senators to flip now that they can’t be accused of being the deciding vote.
UPDATE:
Finkbeiner has released a public statement:
“I want to take this opportunity to let you know that I plan to vote for House Bill 1515 this year.
“There are two strong reasons that have swayed me to support House Bill 1515 for the 2006 state legislative session. First of all, I’ve had a number of conversations over the past year that have led me to more fully understand the level of discrimination against gays and lesbians, and I now find it is both appropriate and necessary for the state to make it clear that this is not acceptable.
“Secondly, I believe that, unfortunately, this issue has become a political football used by both parties. This bill failed year after year, even in years when Democrats have held strong majorities, because it motivates some party activists on both sides. And the issue has become one of many “wedge’ issues used to split our communities and divide us. Real people are affected by this issue: our friends, our co-workers, our family members, our neighbors. I don’t agree with the politicization of people’s personal lives and I think it is time to move on.”
UPDATE, UPDATE:
Not that it really matters, but there had been some speculation that state Sen. Dave Schmidt (R-44) would reverse his vote on HB 1515, following Sen. Bill Finkbeiner’s lead. So I thought… why not just ask?
His legislative aide, Becky, promptly replied:
Thank you for your letter David, Senator Schmidt has received it. Historically the 44th legislative district has not supported HB 1515, likewise, Senator Schmidt will not be supporting HB 1515. Initiative 677
Bill have a nice lobbyist position lined up, does he?
Re-election beckons…
God bless him. Finally, we can end discrimination against people for who they love. ‘Bout time.
Go Bill! Bye, Chris. We will hardly miss ye.
Nice statement, and a good step forward.
Why do I get the feeling Finkbeiner will not get the call to succeed Chris Vance as state GOP Chair?
Here is a quick chicken and egg question for those who may know these things….
Did Finkbeiner change his vote after down from his leadership position?
Or did he step down from his leadership position because he was going to change his vote?
Doesn’t he realize God is now likely to visit a stroke upon him???
:o
@ 6
That’s a tough one. I don’t think its a good idea for a political party to have its majority leader be a “centrist.” It would have seemed weird for the entire Republican senate to vote against civil rights but to have their majority leader, an “Evans” Republican, to vote yea.
@8
What then, is the point of being a “leader”?
I have troubles believing that someone would base their whole political career on their vote for gay rights. Like Finkbeiner said, just pass it and move on. It really isn’t the show stopper that repubs think it is.
(Yes, I’m still one of them, but I reserve the right to disagree once in awhile. Especially when they take really stu-pid stances.)
Well good for Bill. Rossi would never have had the guts to vote the right way on this bill.
And speaking of the flintstones dog…who do you think will be taking a close look at being the Repugnant party chair? Lets see…Who is starving from not enough time in front of the media?
I tend to agree with you Janet and I don’t think that most Democrats really expect people who support one party or the other to embrace every party plank. It seems radically different when I visit right-wing sites like Redstate which threw out one of their founders because he had the temerity to disagree with Bush.
I used to be a proud independent, but after witnessing the polarization of Republican politics and the right-ward lurch towards very unconservative borrow-and-spend credit card economics, I have changed my stance and became a Democrat. I don’t agree with everything in the party platform, nor with every thing that comes out of Democratic politicians mouths, but I am much more comfortable here than the other side of the aisle.
For what it is worth, it is really the fundamentalist types that are in control of the Republican party that are driving this hysteria against homosexuals. I don’t think it even really represents the rank-and-file Republican but it certainly is party gospel right now.
Finkbeiner’s statement is remarkable for its sagacity. This is true “leadership”. Schmidt is simply a cipher putting out self-serving excuses. If he is against the bill because he believes it to be poor public policy–then why not step up and say so?
If all it took was polls to tell our legislators what positions to take, then why have ANY legislators to begin with? We could just phone in what we want, politically, and re-name our great state “Dominos”*.
*(I wonder what we could get for the naming rights….)
Goldy, is Finkbeiner or Schimdt the closeted gay legislator you were going to “out” a while back?
Did Finkbeiner change his vote after down from his leadership position?
Or did he step down from his leadership position because he was going to change his vote?
Comment by Nindid— 1/9/06 @ 3:04 pm
Nindid, not to cut Fink any slack but when you are elected as leader of your caucus and when you are Bill who switched parties in the first place it would be clear as day to him that he could not break ranks on a historic party lines vote for his party in the senate. Just as chair of a committee such a vote may result in ones removal. If the caucus leader bolts and he wants to get anything done thereafter, life as an elected official would become very painfull.
While Bill may have voted for 1515 last year if he was not in leadership or chairing anything, I do not think he stepped aside so he could take this vote. Rather, I think his caucus is just much more conservitive than he. So now with the backlash from last years 1515 vote and the race he faces for reelection, Bill will get a pass from his caucus cuz they need his seat if they are to hold any hope of gaining the majority.
So Bill is not the story. The story is that long overdue passage of 1515 is only weeks away.
Con1st @14,
Duh… why the fuck would I answer that?
What happened to your governors popularity Goldy???
http://archives.seattletimes.n.....y=gregoire
Chuck: I like the above URL link part that said “slug=gregoire”
From Times article:
Gregoire’s poll numbers have been inching up, and one national polling firm now has her approval rating at above 50 percent.
Just a matter of spin. Goldy sees the glass haf-full, the Times half-empty.
Damn, I leave the state and the Seattle Times delivers a “glowing” review of “slug=gregoire”? Wow! Thanks for the link Chuck.
This is great news. Much credit is due Ed Murray and other fay legislarors as well as the gay communiy for retruning to Olympia year after year with determination and resources.
Cal Andrson will give a cheer from the grave when it passes.
One tidbit from history – the bill was once blocked by direct phone lobbying from Catholic Bishops to the floor during debate. True. The call flipped Deccio’s vote.
So. it is not in the can quite yet, but we should keep our fingers crossed and keep the pressure on – and tell the Bishops, all makes and models, and Fundies to go back to feeding the hungry, comiserating with the widowed, succor to orphans and aiding sick.
Good news, indeed.
I have follow this effort for almost 25 years as the publisher / owner of the weekly Sattle Gay News. Regards to all.
George Bakan
Voter_Disadvocate:Didn’t PacMan discuss with a lump in his throat “tax and spend libruls”?
“With help from the largest Democratic majorities the Legislature has seen in a decade, Gregoire last year approved more than $400 million in new taxes for the state general fund. And if (insert here “democratic”) lawmakers approve her latest requests, state spending in her first two-year budget will be more than $3.5 billion higher than the previous budget — a 15 percent increase — and the number of state employees will grow by more than 1,000.” Wow another 1000 state workers.
Do I have a filter hang-up?
George, you didn’t use racial epithets or slurs or four letter curse words in de post.
MTR has the latest approved list of these words and how to implement them in you blog entry.
Con1st @14 Re: Goldy @16
What Goldy means is “maybe…wink, wink”…
Ain’t it funny how gay Republicans are such an amazing freak show to the left? More to the point, isn’t it freaky how Democrats respond to them and the views they have? I am not sure, but it may be similar to what happens when a black man or woman is revealed to be a Republican.
Wow, Chuck,
From the article: But since then, Gregoire has replaced her communications director and her press secretary and brought on Ron Judd, a prominent union leader, as her chief political adviser.
I did not realize G-woman needed the Union thugs to prop her up…
George – Let me explain how to post in HA. You see, this is not a serious discussion forum, but rather a “schoolyard fight”. All posts must include the words “nazi” and “fascist” directed at conservatives.
You must also use the words shit, piss, cock, cunt, fuck (in all its forms such as motherfucker) and screw. You can call somebody a nigger if you want and that is fine. You can call Goldy a hymie kike asshole if you want and that is also just fine.
However, posts should contain a minimal amount of facts, data, logic and rational analysis. If there’s too much real thought, the filter rejects the post If you want real discussion that is intelligent, go over to Sound Politics.
marks
Her press secretary needed to be replaced after the press reported on the Washington State Patrol guarding a dog and killing opossum’s who happen to wander onto the Gov Mansion’s lawn.
Where was that Fraud, Waste, and corruption hotline number?
George – Here’s an example of a post that is just fine here in the cessspool of HA. Observe my technique:
Hey Moonbats – Explain to me why it should be the law of the land to get special privileges just because you take it up the ass?
See? Easy eh?
Second try no go – Goldy your filter system is maladroit.
George. Potentially one of the words used needs spaces between letters. Try that! Otherwise place the words MTR suggested inside of the real message!
MTR: Because doing that as ‘splained in #28 needs special legislation. I haven’t heard a peep on this one yet:
1984:
The Supreme Court rules that states do have the right to outlaw homosexual acts between consenting adults.
Roger Rabbit: do some research on #31 Part 2. Why did a democratic court do that?
Puddy
They did it because of horrible univeral homophibia.
Called the Hardwick decision. Two Houston males were interrupted by a cop who came to their home on a traffic matter. No cause to even be interested in their bedroom. They were arrested using some old morality law –
U S Supremes issued zig zag ruling citing historic adverson to homos.
Fully reversed several years ago.
Justice Blackmum regretted publicly his vote for the Hardwick decision — after the ruling, several of his most valued clerks came out to him. Hence the fit of conscience.
Hey Moonbats – Explain to me why it should be the law of the land to get special privileges just because you take it up the ass?
Comment by Mark The Redneck— 1/9/06 @ 5:48 pm
And what special privileges are you referring to, Vagina Lips?
Goldy, the real breaking news is Senator Ted (hiccup) Kennedy calling Judge Alito, Judge Alioto. I guess he visited Fisherman’s Wharf in SF while getting his talking points approved by Senator Boxer and a flashback moment occurred!
George, I looked for the ruling reversal. Do you have a link?
Sgmmac,
Her press secretary needed to be replaced after the press reported on the Washington State Patrol guarding a dog and killing opossum’s who happen to wander onto the Gov Mansion’s lawn.
So now she has someone to make sure only Union hires do the dirty deed? Classic!
Roger Rabbit: do some research on #31 Part 2. Why did a democratic court do that?
Comment by Puddybud— 1/9/06 @ 6:23 pm
Puddster: That would be the 1984 court comprised of 7 GOP nominated justices and 2 Dem. nominated justices? That one, right?
Your assertion is false, but what’s new?
puddy
The ruing struck down sodomy laws – two or three years ago. Will try to get you more info later.
The reversal of the Courts fairly recent ruling, Hardwick, was almost historic for the quick change in the Courts opinion. About a decade to turn around.
Puddy: Texas Sodomy Law 2003. Google it.
Puddybud @36,
I think it is this.
Specifically:
3. Whether Bowers v. Hardwick, 478 U. S. 186 (1986), should be overruled?” Pet. for Cert. i.
Not that there is anything wrong with that…
Yeah ASSProud, I know I posted their names earlier. 7 nominated people and most of them pissed off their nominators on their stances. Just because they were nominated and confirmed doesn’t mean they turn. They turned. Wasn’t that the Warren Burger Court? Sure was. Next ASSProud?
Oh, yeah, this:
3. Whether Bowers v. Hardwick, 478 U. S. 186 (1986), should be overruled?” Pet. for Cert. i.
is from the .pdf referenced in the article.
Marks, how’s it hangin’? Missed some of your poignant posts while I was gone. I love how you tell it as it is!
@ 42: Yeah ASSProud, I know I posted their names earlier.
Yeah, sure, but not on this thread, puddypuller. The fact remains, 7 of the justices in ’84 were GOP nominees, and your interpretation about them “turning” is just pure nonsense. Liars such as yourself have no shame it would seem.
SC overturns remaining anti-sodomy laws: Lawrence v. Texas, 2003.
Next yourself, puddypuller.
Speaking of packing; did anyone ever view donnageddon apologize for calling me PacFeces in May 2005? Just wondering since I out of town.
PacMan! Where you been?
I B fine, and have my wife to thank for that. Have you settled in to your new digs?
I am doing okay Marks. But these trips back to CA are tough. Did I read that Winston Smith is Headless Loosy?
Proud @45
7 of the justices in ‘84 were GOP nominees,
While that is true prima facie, I think you are a bit over the top insinuating the Burger Court consisted of 7 conservatives. Kind of like making believe that Justice Souter belongs in the same category as Chief Justice Roberts.
PacMan,
Did I read that Winston Smith is Headless Loosy?
That may be the case, as he has used many handles including Harry Poon and Apache Fog (he is easy to uncover, as his style remains the same).
You, however, have been accused of being Puddybud (in addition to other, more sinister “things” like you noted @46). Guilty? Er…of being Puddybud, that is?
PacMan & marks—
Headless lucy can’t fool sleuths like us! We can smell a LEFTIST PINHEADED KLOWN miles away…..it’s that Seattle “Progressive” stench that gives ’em away every time!
Marks @ 49: Well, you may be right–far, far, far, to the right. Nonetheless, the Burger Court was a fairly conservative court, and didn’t break any great new ground on civil rights, and obviously not with regard to the rights of homosexuality. The fact they were not “conservative enough” to suit your peculiarly cramped political tastes is really beside the point.
And thanks for admitting John Roberts is one of you. Why couldn’t he say so during the confirmation hearings before a GOP controlled Senate? Too chicken?
Certainly Finkbeiner will be the Grand Marshall in Freemount Gay Pride Parade ad infinitum!! I certainly hope the next step isn’t for us to read in the Legal Notices that Bill has changed his name from Bill Finkbeiner to something like Bill Fudgepacker.
Proud,
No, not far, far, far, to the right, but then, you have made up your mind on a very simple post based on fact. Funny what happens when your partisan infection gets to you, eh? Must be sort of like tertiary syphilis. Get help, dude.
Wow someone else using wikipedia against a moonbat. I like it! Story of ASSProud’s life; insinuating nothing worthwhile!
Byron Raymond White Appointed to the court by John F. Kennedy (D) in 1962 Hmmm… ASSProud?
William J Rehnquist Appointed to the court by President Nixon (R) in 1972.
Lewis F Powell Appointed to the court by President Nixon (R) in 1972. Powell compiled a decidedly moderate record on the Court, cultivating a reputation as a swing vote with a penchant for compromise. Nixon thought he was a was a strong supporter of federalism and state’s rights. Hmmm… ASSProud?
William J Brennan was named to the U.S. Supreme Court by Dwight Eisenhower (R) in 1956. An outspoken liberal throughout his career, he played a leading role in the Warren Court’s dramatic expansion of individual rights. Brennan played a large behind-the-scenes role during the Warren Court, coaxing more conservative colleagues to join the Court’s expansion of individual rights. Brennan was a staunch opponent of the death penalty, and a supporter of abortion rights. Hmmm… ASSProud?
Warren E. Burger was named to the U.S. Supreme Court by President Richard Nixon (R) in 1969. In the early 1970s, it became apparent that Burger was not going to turn the clock back on the rulings of the Warren Court. Hmmm… ASSProud?
Sandra Day O’Connor was named to the U.S. Supreme Court by President Ronald Reagan (R) in 1969, who had pledged during the 1980 presidential campaign to appoint the first woman to the Supreme Court. Wow why didn’t a democrat do that?
Thurgood Marshall appointed to the Supreme Court by President Johnson (D) in 1967. A group of Democratic Party Senators led by Mississippi’s James Eastland and West Virginia’s Robert 3K Sheets Byrd held up his confirmation. Hmmm… ASSProud?
John Paul Stevens appointed to the Supreme Court by President Ford (R) in 1975. Early in his tenure Stevens took a moderate path. On the more conservative Rehnquist Court, Stevens tended to side with the more liberal-leaning Justices on issues such as abortion rights, gay rights and federalism. Hmmm… ASSProud?
So there you have it direct from wikipedia ASSProud.
Mark – You should give credit to the gay guys who were butt doggies in the Texas sodomy case.
Becaude of their har fought legal battle, pussy eaters (ie. vagina) were liberated from, legal problems in nine states.
Ain’t life strange — and even more interesting is that the pussy eaters in Alabama and Mississippi liberated by the stike down of sodomy laws, did not know that is the name for oral genital contact.
Oh , well. Three cheers for variety in sexual matters.
It is OK, Mr. C. Go for it.
Hey Marks, I am as close to being Puddy as you are of being Cynical!
Perhaps Finkbeiner may change his name and embrace his Scottish Roots….How about Ben Dover?!!
PacMan,
As I suspected. Of course, if I were Proud to be an Ass I would assume that you, me, Cynical, Puddybud, Sven and sgmmac were all personifications of a single demented right-wing mind…
Ooops, I must have just made him paranoid….
Shucks, I hit the enter key too quickly.
Windie, I understand that you are waiting (oops, did you say “chomping at the bit” last week?) for the meeting between GBS, Puddy and PacMan. That will happen real soon. After GBS delivers his well written report on Puddy and PacMan being two distinct and unique people, will you finally shut up and go away?
PacMan, you are as close to being me as ASSProud, windieASS and cluedinless&lessASS growing brain cells replacing the dead ones from their weekly Drinking Librully binges!
Bill Finkbeiner just led the state senate GOP out of the woods on a pretty basic issue that impacts everyone’s friends an families, including Mr. Cynical’s along with the guy on here who is obsessed with anal sex – which may be more common among straight people than gay people and might be highly rare among lesbian.
It is highly important that Finkbeiner had to leave the GOP leadership in order to lead on this subject – and away from the Mr. Cynicals, the anal sex guy and the right wing christian fund raisers.
Dave Schmidt is lost on this subject – or at least his aide is who is simply repeating wimpy aide-type garbage that sounds like he consulted with Senator Betty Sheldon’s office just to the north.
As a general rule, people who are divorced and live in what most of the religious fundamentalists would typically regard as “sin” – even if its “straight sin” not “gay sin” – really have to grope for political answers to principled issues and should not be trusted – or re-elected.
LEFTIST PINHEADED KLOWNS are paranoid at birth….or rather at “hatch”. Once Hillary mentioned the “vast right-wing conspiracy” it lit up their paranoia glands. The only cure is to have these glands removed in a very painful glandectomy. Those of us who are RIGHT know nothing about the Paranoia Gland….but it’s my understanding that it connects the brain and rectum of these KLOWNS!!! It’s all tied together somehow, dontcha know….and this is it. Perhaps I will be nominated for the Nobel Prize in Medicine and Politics. Mr. Cynical….explains why LEFTIST PINHEADS are what there are….a gland connects their brain and asshole!!!
Putty-fer-Brains @31
“1984: The Supreme Court rules that states do have the right to outlaw homosexual acts between consenting adults.”
Putty-fer-Brains @32
“Roger Rabbit: do some research on #31 Part 2.”
By popular demand, Roger Rabbit offers the following legal opinion on the constitutionality of state laws making private, consensual, adult homosexual sex illegal.
First of all, Putty Between Ears, when you publicly refer to SCOTUS decisions, please try to at least get the year right, so
1) the lawyer you are asking to research the case can find it, and
2) so you don’t look like the fucking idiot you are.
It appears you are citing (or attempting to cite) Bowers v. Hardwick, 478 U.S. 186, 106 S.Ct. 2841, 92 L.Ed.2d 140 (1986, NOT 1984!!!), which rejected a constitutional challenge and upheld a conviction under Georgia’s sodomy law.
Unfortunately for your credibility, Bowers was overruled in Lawrence & Garner v. Texas, 539 U.S. 558, 123 S. Ct. 2472, 156 L. Ed. 2d 508, (2003), and sodomy laws are now unconstitutional — proving once again that Puttybutt has not read a newspaper for at least 3 years.
Hey Puttybrains … fyi … in case you don’t know … the Dred Scott decision was overruled by the 13th Amendment, and slavery isn’t constitutional anymore, either.
(1986)
Roger: I stated this as my source for many civil rights rulings many moons ago. http://www.civilrights.org/lib.....chron.html
They said it was 1984. Look up da URL and the entry Roger. I don read newspapers, but I forgot that one. Maybe since it doesn’t affect me because I am not looking for those effects!
Yes, slavery was abolished long ago, so why are you still a slave?
Erratum: Should say “I do read newspapers”, just on the net because I travel so much!
28
“special privileges”
This was utterly predictable.
Making it illegal for someone to kill you, beat the crap out of you, refuse to hire your or fire you, deny you housing or medical insurance, or throw you out of a business establishment open to the general population, because of who you have sex with in private is not a “special privilege.”
Asking the law to look the other way way if you kill, beat, refuse to hire or fire, deny housing or medical insurance, or throw out of a business establishment, another person because you don’t like who they have sex with, is asking for a “special privilege.”
35
“the real breaking news is Senator Ted (hiccup) Kennedy calling Judge Alito, Judge Alioto”
I’m not sure what the intent or significance of this remark is, but Judge Alito currently is a judge on the Third Circuit Court of Appeals, and if his nomination to become a U.S. Supreme Court justice is confirmed by the Senate, he will become Justice Alito.
I have a suspicion that Putty-fer-Brains, who has not read a newspaper for at least 3 times, doesn’t realize that Mr. Alito is currently a judge. Maybe he thinks Mr. Alito is a trash collector, or a fireman, or a waitress. Or perhaps he doesn’t realize the U.S. Supreme Court has 9 Justices, but no Judges. I’m not sure. He seems to have fucked up his judicial nomenclature.
erratum
should read: “newspaper for at least 3 years”
39
“The reversal of the Courts fairly recent ruling, Hardwick, was almost historic for the quick change in the Courts opinion. About a decade to turn around.”
Actually it was 17 years, which nevertheless as a very short shelf life for a U.S. Supreme Court decision, as these things go.
Windie, on the Ariel Sharon front, a reporter asked did he have an undiagnosed brain disease. I thought of you when I heard this on the news.
41
See, Puddy? Marks found it. If he could find it, how come you couldn’t find it? Other than the fact you’re dumber than marks … actually, you’re dumber than almost everyone … you’re even dumber than a box of rocks.
64
“Look up da URL and the entry Roger.”
Why should I? I’ve already looked up, and given the correct citation to, the controlling case. I don’t need your fucking link, because I went directly to the source.
“I don read newspapers,”
We know, we know.
46
“did … donnageddon apologize for calling me PacFeces …?”
Hey PacFeces, why should he? The epithet is aptly applied to someone as full of shit as you are.
Roger Full of Dingleberries Rabbit: I do know who Judge Alito is. It’s your hero Ted Chappaquiddick Kennedy whom has issues! He criticizes the Fisherman’s Wharf in SF? Get it together Roger!
I already stated in #64, I don’t go there in my life, the judgment does not affect me, so I forgot about it.
51
“Headless lucy can’t fool sleuths like us!”
Really? Okay, Cynical, try this
ROGER RABBIT QUIZ
Roger Rabbit
[ ] 1. is
[ ] 2. is not
Dean Logan blogging on a King County computer.*
* This is bullshit, but it’s useless to tell Stefan, who is impervious to all known facts.
Hint: Roger Rabbit is NOT Dean Logan, and is blogging on a privately owned computer in his own burrow!
Okay, Cynical, that’s the quiz question, now what’s your answer? Is it (1) or (2)? We’ll soon find out how clever you are.
51 (continued)
P.S., if you guess the answer correctly, you win an intelligence analyst job with the NSA!
Hey you NSA spooks — I know you’re reading this — fuck you unpatriotic fascist pigs!
53
“Certainly Finkbeiner will be the Grand Marshall in Freemount Gay Pride Parade ad infinitum!! I certainly hope the next step isn’t for us to read in the Legal Notices that Bill has changed his name from Bill Finkbeiner to something like Bill Fudgepacker.”
How about if he keeps his name and changes his party affiliation to Democrat? Would that make you happy?
Putty Between Ears @55
Re: Wikipedia
Wow! You used Wikipedia to find out who was on the Burger court! That wasn’t so hard, was it? … So how come you couldn’t type the following words: “Wikipedia sodomy law”? You would have got
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_law
which says
“While many other parts of the world have, or had, laws against sodomy or other sexual practices, the term sodomy law has mainly been used when discussing the sodomy laws of the United States which were struck down by the U.S. Supreme Court in 2003”
and avoided making a public ass of yourself.
While many other parts of the world have, or had, laws against sodomy or other sexual practices, the term sodomy law has mainly been used when discussing the sodomy laws of the United States which were struck down by the U.S. Supreme Court in 2003.
Roger Rabbit: So you agree with donnageddon’s assessment? You amaze me Roger. You amaze me. Calling a black man full of shit? So progressive of you. Didn’t someone say something similar about Puddy two weeks ago. This is great democratic speak here on Animal Hind Parts! Keep it up Roger. Your “sentiments” are sick.
On further reflection, being the “wonderfully intelligent” lawyer of Animal Hind Parts, your writings on Animal Hind Parts provide a refreshing view of your shitty disposition every day. Everything to the right of you (even marks writings) is shitty.
In case you forget already,
While many other parts of the world have, or had, laws against sodomy or other sexual practices, the term sodomy law has mainly been used when discussing the sodomy laws of the United States which were struck down by the U.S. Supreme Court in 2003.
Here it is again:
While many other parts of the world have, or had, laws against sodomy or other sexual practices, the term sodomy law has mainly been used when discussing the sodomy laws of the United States which were struck down by the U.S. Supreme Court in 2003.
58
“As I suspected. Of course, if I were Proud to be an Ass I would assume that you, me, Cynical, Puddybud, Sven and sgmmac were all personifications of a single demented right-wing mind…”
I wouldn’t go that far, but you all get your talking points from the same demented right-wing mind.
Thanks Roger. I don’t live in the world of sodomy so I didn’t remember the latest SCOTUS judgment. Rant on Roger.
62
“Once Hillary mentioned the ‘vast right-wing conspiracy’ it lit up their paranoia glands.”
Just because she’s paranoid doesn’t mean you assholes aren’t out to get her.
@83: And what mind is that Roger? Are you comparing us to your daily visits along with windieASS, cluedinless&lessASS, and others to Daily Kos, Think Progress, Media Matters, MoveOn.org to receive your daily talking points? Yeah, Right!
84
“Thanks Roger. I don’t live in the world of sodomy so I didn’t remember the latest SCOTUS judgment.”
Then why did you bring it up? If you post bullshit, expect to get corrected.
How was I posting bullshit? I used a respected web site that displays civil rights judgments. Have you ever visited the link?
Hey Puttybrains — is there ANY SCOTUS judgment you remember? How about Miranda v. Arizona, 384 US 436, 86 S.Ct. 1602, 16 L.Ed. 2d 694 (1966)? You should remember that one pretty well, as you probably get reminded of it at 2 a.m. every Friday night.
86
“@83: And what mind is that Roger?”
Rush the Lush
I remember at Brown University, the chants of visiting teams: “What’s the color of Brown… SHIT!” This is a similar chant of Roger Rabbit today! Primitive progressive thought is everywhere!
Roger, 2AM on Saturday mornings I am asleep in my house next to my wife. What are you doing Roger? Blogging on ASSes?
Since you bring up Miranda, did someone read Roger his Miranda rights when you were drunk as a skunk on the car trunk?
DAY TWO OF GOLDY “OUTING” VIGIL
David Goldstein, a liberal Seattle-based blogger, disagreed. He wrote on his blog, http://www.horsesass.org, that he’d consider outing a specific Republican state senator who opposed the gay rights bill if it would help pass the legislation next session.
That senator “should think twice before casting another hypocritical vote in opposition,” warned Goldstein’s post, which did not name the senator.
http://www.thenewstribune.com/.....1399c.html
Speak now, Goldy, or forever hold your peace.
92
“Roger, 2AM on Saturday mornings I am asleep in my house next to my wife.”
Why should she believe that, when you lie about everything else?
93
“Since you bring up Miranda, did someone read Roger his Miranda rights when you were drunk as a skunk on the car trunk?”
Now there’s an idea! Next time I go to DL, I’ll take a can of white paint with me … at that time of night, the cops won’t be able to tell the difference between a rabbit with a white stripe painted on his fur, and a real skunk. Should be interesting!
94
“David Goldstein … wrote on his blog … that he’d consider outing a specific Republican state senator who opposed the gay rights bill if it would help pass the legislation next session. … Speak now, Goldy, or forever hold your peace.”
Now, now, Richard. Why do you want to do this to your boyfriend? Are you two quarreling?
It almost sounds like Finkbeiner is being blackmailed into voting for the bill……..
speaking of upcoming bills, What is up with Senators Franklin, Kline, Kastama, Keiser, Regala and Jacobsen sponsoring Senate Bill 6221 which will allow public funds to be used to finance political campaigns for local offices?????????????
@ 100
Yeah, being blackmailed into ending discrimination. One should BE so lucky.
sgmmac, what differrence would that make? Lets examine the choices.
1. Finkbeiner is straight and acting on good concience as a human who realizes that bigotry is always wrong.
2. Finkbeiner is gay, and acting through embarrassment at being outed to give human rights to all humans
3. Finkbeiner is gay, and acting out of fear of outing to give human rights to all humans
4. Finkneiner is a robot sent to destroy all humans
Any way you add it up, human rights are being served. Except for option 4, in which case we need to lock all doors and never open them.
I agree with the human rights being served with some minor exceptions. I disagree that it would be okay to blackmail someone into voting a certain way with the threat of “outing” them. If he is gay, he should come out of the closet and then vote however he chooses to vote. Just because someone is gay, doesn’t mean that they would have to support any and all gay legislation.
I can’t believe it – I find donna amusing! Could be that he is gay and “acting on good concience as a human who realizes that bigotry is always wrong.” You don’t have to be straight to do the right thing.
I just hope it isn’t choice #4. That would be truly scary.
Donna said before that he doesn’t swing that way and that he is a widower, I think.
It appears that not everybody agrees with Sen. Bill Finkbeiner on this subject matter. The question is why makes laws that protect one group of folks and excluded the rest of the citizens of the state. What make folks of other sexual preferences more deserving of a law thats protects them from their fears and not the majority population. What other special interest group will demand a law to protect them from their fears, Pedophile, Beastility, or Polygamy. When does this trip down the road stops and who gets excluded? What is acceptable for society today and into the furture? It appears that politicians are prostituting their values for votes.
Utah theater cancels ‘Brokeback Mountain
http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....75O81.html
SALT LAKE CITY — A movie theater owned by Utah Jazz owner Larry Miller abruptly changed its screening plans and decided not to show the film “Brokeback Mountain.” The film, an R-rated Western gay romance story, was supposed to open Friday at the Megaplex at Jordan Commons in Sandy, a suburb of Salt Lake City. Instead it was pulled from the schedule.
A message posted at the ticket window read: “There has been a change in booking and we will not be showing ‘Brokeback Mountain.’ We apologize for any inconvenience.”
Cal Gunderson, manager of the Jordan Commons Megaplex, declined to comment.
The film, starring Heath Ledger and Jake Gyllenhaal, is about two cowboys who discover feelings for one another. The two eventually marry women but rekindle their relationship over the years.
DAY THREE OF GOLDY “OUTING” VIGIL
Roger, lying about my wife? Think not. I have a beautiful human being who smiles and delivers when I arrive back from business trips. What do you have at home with you that causes you to blog after midnight on most days here on ASSes?
Poll on Roger
[ ] Roger has an imaginary wife
[ ] Roger has dementia, thinks he is a rabbit
[ ] Roger thinks he has adoring fans at Drinking Librully events
[ ] Roger thinks he is Dean Logan
[ ] Roger is a really a paralegal, a good one
[ ] Roger has other mental issues
Roger Rabbit: Accuses everyone else to the right of “him” being full of shit. Too bad all the mirrors in his “hole” in the ground are broken!
Roger Rabbit: A figment of his own imagination.
Roger Rabbit: In post #99 claims he can paint a stripe on himself and can impersonate a skunk. Is the smell really that bad? Or, as I surmise, you are the black “rabbit” of the family, with politics waaaaaaay out in left field?
Comment by Goldy— 1/9/06 @ 4:23 pm
“Duh… why the f*ck would I answer that?” (explitive deleted)
I didn’t expect you to, but you did respond in a predictable manner.
Comment by marks— 1/9/06 @ 5:28 pm
“What Goldy means is “maybe…wink, wink”…”
I think a part of Goldy will be sadden if HB 1515 passes since his sense of self importance will be diminished.
I truly believe you are sadly mistaken Con1st. It would be literally impossible for Goldy to feel that his “since his sense of self importance will be diminished” because that would make him a NeoCon and like I said, never happen
Puddy & PacMan–
Rog’s wife, Mrs. Rabbit #178, passed away recently just like his previous 177 wives.. The diagnosis was “terminal boredom”. I think you two can understand how that could happen.
Hey, if Rog is intentionally boring his wives to death and it’s now happened 178 times, does this make Rog a mass murderer??
Rog is NOT Dean Logan….He is Tookie reincarnated!!!!!
Tookie Rabbit.
Klake @ 107
Most everyone else is already protected in the state’s civil rights laws, which already assure protections to people based on sex, age, race, religion, marital status, mental illness, national origin, physical disability and other charactersitics of people. By adding “sexual orientation” to the characteristics protected, the state is not just protecting gay people from discrimination, but all people who have a sexual orientation, which is all people.
People are discriminated in this state based on their sexual orientation and the state Senate GOP has condoned this discrimination for years on end. I think we’re required to take Senator Finkbeiner at his word. He changed his mind for two reasons: 1. he became aware of discrimination real people have experienced based on sexual orienation and decided it was wrong and 2. he thought the issue was being used as a political footbal and decided that it was wrong to use partisan politics in ways that impact people’s lives.
Comment by cougar— 1/10/06 @ 6:20 am
“I truly believe you are sadly mistaken Con1st. It would be literally impossible for Goldy to feel that his “since his sense of self importance will be diminished” because that would make him a NeoCon and like I said, never happen”
So neocons aren’t arrogant, self-absorbed, egomaniacs? Hmmm, that’s news to a lot of people around here.
By adding “sexual orientation” to the characteristics protected, the state is not just protecting gay people from discrimination, but all people who have a sexual orientation, which is all people.
Comment by Thor— 1/10/06 @ 7:35 am
What other special interest group will demand a law to protect them from their fears, Pedophile, Beastility, or Polygamy. When does this trip down the road stops and who gets excluded?
Thor you still did not answer this question. Second, you will never dispose of decimation with the human animal it is part of the beast. The people inputting on this web site is proof of that point. Making useless laws has not improved society today because it creates wedges for better solution to the problem. Today we have people lockup in penitentiary systems that are not a threat to our society and others are dump on the streets that are. The questions are we using this system wisely, or for creating personal culture change that, the masses will disagree with? Laws are for public safety not to deal with personnel fears and mental health problems.
Klake
Why wouldn’t Pedophiles, Beastilites and Polygamist be covered under the anti-discrimination law? Those are sexual orientations, are they not?
Child abuse is specifically illegal… DUH
bestiality is legal in washington, as is having multiple partners… So are you going to let people be discriminated against for something that the state thinks is okay?
Not that it matters… the polygamy/bestiality/pedophily argument is a classic appeal to emotion. Give it a break.
Windie,
It is a legal argument, not an emotional argument. If the anti-discrimination law says the words “sexual orientation,” then all sexual orientations would be covered by the law. There are also many other sexual orientations, such as poeple who like sex with the dead. Hell, they vote in Washington, they certainly can have sex here too!
Having a sexual orientation and actually having sex are also two different things. You must have action, to have a crime. If the law says homosexuals, then only that one sexual orientation would be covered.
I don’t think polygamy is legal in Washington.
30 years ago, homosexuality was an emotional argument.
sorry sgmmac, was referring to klake’s argument there.
I agree with you 100%. But, I was unwilling to make a big deal about it. There are people on here that will take the orientation/action dichotomy and say ‘hey! They’re saying it should be legal to be a pedophile!’ (more appeal to emotion)
However you are right. People shouldn’t be charged or discriminated against due to their *desires*, but rather based on their actions. I’m not sure the legislature is brave enough to make that point, though.
In practical terms I’m sure there will be a list of ‘what counts’ somewhere in the bill, so neither party has to worry about giving the other side ammunition.
Here here sgmmac. Lets see windieASS paint himself out of the closet now!
Clearly Goldy’s threat to OUT some Senator if he doesn’t change his vote has had an impact. Richard Pope is funning with Goldy because the answer here is so apparent…..but Goldy will never say. Either Goldy’s threat was taken seriously…..or Goldy is full of BS. Neither is good. Things will continue to deteriorate as Goldy proliferates the politics of personal destruction. I guess the end justifies any means, huh Goldy??
ps to sgmmac: Homosexuality is still an emotional hotpoint. Sad but true.
go troll somewhere else puddy. People actually interested in the issues are talking here.
windieASS: Big time Moonbat! I am discussing the issues here. Why do we have to legislate your “morality”?
I agree with what sgmmac said, wholeheartedly. I think you are being disingenuous. Otherwise you would have decried all the dead peeps voting. Nary a word when it counted alfalfa, nary a word!!!
I hate how your friends in the GLA, GLSEN, and GLAAD compares the black civil rights struggle to homo and lezzie rights. That’s bullshit!
Google sexual orientation laws and your see over 5.8 million hits.
http://www.glsencincinnati.org/news_summer04.html This is hilarious! Oh no, forty-two states hate us because they don’t have any laws on the books.
Also windieASS, why do we need a dictionary of “official terms”? http://www.glaad.org/media/guide/transfocus.php
sgmmac @ 119, not quite. The consent rules still apply, and under our law, individuals under 18 and animals can not give consent. Law would simply say you can not fire someone or deny them housing just because their partner is the same sex.
Now, I tell ya, you would think that in this age of cut throat competition and pursuit of the almighty dollar, only an idiot person would refuse legitimate business. Wrong. As crazy as it may sound, people will refuse to rent to a applicant with excellent credit/ references just because of religion. They will refuse sales worth thousands of dollar’s because of something as stupid as skin color. Sad but true.
I didn’t say we needed them, I said they’d surely be included. I’m sure you agree that both sides would, if they could, smear the other side by saying ‘they want to protect pedophiles!’… if they could.
Also, way to ignore my first response. I think I answered Sgmmac’s concerns quite well.
To clarify a point to sgmmac that I missed. Multiple marriage is illegal in Washington state. Plenty of people do it anyways.
Seriously tho puddy, if we both agree with sgmmac, why are you yelling at me (so to speak)? Do the gays scare you that much? and…
well then, theres the massive irony of a rightie complaining about ‘legislating morality’.
I’m going to take you at your word that you want to discuss the issues and not just flame. In that vein let me ask you 2 hypothetical/rhetorical questions.
1) Should someone be protected from discrimination because something to do is vastly unpopular?
2) (the hard one) If someone has a fetish for something that is illegal, but never actually does anything wrong, should they be punished or discriminated against? This of course is the bestiality (well not in WA, but you get my point)/pedophilia issue.
oh and a bonus question
3) Is there any reason to do what Klake did @118 and say “What other special interest group will demand a law to protect them from their fears, Pedophile, Beastility, or Polygamy.” (sic) beyond an appeal to emotion? Its the classic argument against gay rights… but its tired
oops rephrase question 1:
1) Should someone be protected from discrimination because something they do is vastly unpopular?
Puddybud, your use of the term “homo and lezzie rights” is in direct contrast to the “black civil rights struggle”. The use of denigrating terms to enforce a prejudice. It is the same sort of nonsense that my Southern Segregationist citizens spouted 30 years ago as a legal justification for segregation and racism.
It was not about the right of citizens to marry. It was about mongrelization by way of race mixing. It was never the equal rights of American citizens to participate in society, but the States right to run things as they see fit. A million excuses disguising or obscuring the truth, the dislike of or outright hatred of a person just because of your particular definition of morality. Not because what the person does harms anyone else or society in general, but because you personally do not like it.
sgmmac @ 121
“If the anti-discrimination law says the words “sexual orientation,” then all sexual orientations would be covered by the law. There are also many other sexual orientations, such as poeple who like sex with the dead.i>”
Not really. According to the amendment of HB 1515:
“Sexual orientation” means heterosexuality, homosexuality, bisexuality, and gender expression or identity. “Gender expression or identity” means having or being perceived as having a gender identity, self-image, appearance, behavior, or expression whether or not that gender identity, self-image, appearance, behavior, or expression is different from that traditionally associated with the sex assigned to that person at birth…
In other words, though they took their time defining it, “sxual orientation” as the basis for discriminatory behavior is strictly limited to heterosexuality, homosexuality, bisexuality, and transgender identity. Necrophilia isn’t on the list, sorry. Necrophilia is no an orientation.For example, if you are a male who likes doing it with female corpses, you’re het for the purposes of this bill. It won’t protect you from discrimination against necrophiliacs, only from discrimination against heterosexuals.
30 years ago, homosexuality was an emotional argument.
Actually, 30 years ago homosexuality was defined as a disease. This orientation was “medicalized” early in the 1900s and defined as a pathological condition, and as late as 1972 it was still officially defined by the American Psychiatric Association as a mental disorder. Even so, through the early 1960s all fifty states maintained laws criminalizing sodomy.
Nice to break free of all that crap.
I should not be left alone with HTML.
Ogg, I’m 99% sure consent laws don’t apply to animals in WA state (ie the “Enumclaw horse case”)
also, theres a difference between a ‘desire’ and an ‘act’.
I applaud Senator Finkbeiner, not for his name, but for his bipartisanship and his humanity. Is he the only Republican left with either?
Windie: I posted a nice answer and the Internet said it could not deliver it because it was busy. I have friends coming over so I’ll have to recraft answer later.
I await it with baited breath :)
Please Windie, and no offense…
It’s “bated” (as in held) breath…
damn.
I”M OFFENDED!!!!!!!111!!!!
no really, thanks for correcting me on that… I just keep doin’ it.
My mom used to say “You have to do it right 3 times for each time you do it wrong, to fix it in your head.”… so here goes
Bated breath
bated breath
bated breath
windie actually had it right the first time Daddy Love…….
His breath is every bit as offensive as the rest of him caused by eating herring plugs all day long.
Baited breath is more appropriate in windie’s case.
cynical:
*slap*
Cynical,
That was hilarious!
windie,
Your response was appropos. Hope you remain a good sport (er, that was not a fishing line)…
Cynical, I just returned from being with friends not seen in years. The baited comment was funny.
Windie: Here is my answer attempt, above board and direct at ya:
1) Should someone be protected from discrimination because something they do is vastly unpopular?
Puddy responds: All depends on what the something is. Let’s take ex-Virginia Tech quarterback Marcus Vick: He stomped on the leg of a Georgia Tech star in a bowl game and was kicked off the team. He would have received a two week suspension, but he was stopped for DUI a few weeks earlier. The hammer dropped. It was disgusting what he did, but he would have been protected and drafted high and gotten much money.
Monday he was arrested for brandishing a weapon toward three people in a parking lot. His NFL contract stock has dropped immensely. He will be discriminated against if he doesn’t get jail time for the weapons charge.
2) (the hard one) If someone has a fetish for something that is illegal, but never actually does anything wrong, should they be punished or discriminated against? This of course is the bestiality (well not in WA, but you get my point)/pedophilia issue.
Puddy responds: Remember the horse fucker from Seattle? (I almost said horse whisperer, sorry hw) If he just talked about it but never did it he would be looked at as weird but not discriminated at. If someone said they were a closet pedophile now that’s different. How could you not suspect this person around your children and you would naturally discriminate against this person?
oh and a bonus question
3) Is there any reason to do what Klake did @118 and say “What other special interest group will demand a law to protect them from their fears, Pedophile, Beastility, or Polygamy.” (sic) beyond an appeal to emotion? Its the classic argument against gay rights… but its tired
Puddy responds: I thought someone already did the polygamy thing? http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_laws9.htm
Then there is this strange comparison of Gay Marriage to Polygamy: http://www.nathannewman.org/archives/003169.shtml
I am far from a conservative. I consider myself a independent. I have no problem with the gay community but the more tolerent I become the more they want to push there agenda down my throat. You can not watch a show on the major network after 8:00 pm that does not have someone gay on it. I have now had to explain why there are 2 men or women kissing each other. So I have explained it to them this way. Either they have chose to do this because of there lack of morals. Or, they have been born with a birth defect that did not allow them to like the opposite sex. Now here I am in the State of Washington who again is trying to put into law the gay agenda. I hope that everyone will do as I do and vote against any legislator that votes for this. The employer has the right to higher and fire as they feel fit based on what they need as an employee and should not fear being sued because they did not hire a gay person. If you keep your personal lifestyle quiet and not try to flaunt it then there would be no problem.
puddy: Thank you for the serious response (altho I just noticed you/pacman trying to troll me earlier in the thread… not your best showing)
anyways
your answer to 1) Kinda irrelevant, but I think I see your point. Its slightly different in that Vick broke the rules the first time, and was disciplined for it. A homosexual isn’t breaking any rules (or laws).
2) Essentially I read this answer as a ‘fear reaction’. Its natural to some degree, I guess… But seriously is it fair? Are you saying you should discriminate against someone because you’re afraid he/she might commit a crime?
3) Good answer… kinda. I think polygamy laws (or polyandry laws for that matter) are intensely stupid. He’s still making an emotional appeal. kind of an “OMG TEH GAYS!” argument.
as a sidenote, I don’t know how you folks can find bad puns that funny.
PS: I know this is confusing to righties… but if I hear from a reliable source that pacman is a real poster who just happens to post at exactly the same time in exactly the same style as puddy… I’ll be amazed, but I’ll also willingly admit I was wrong. See, we on the left are able and willing to do that.
hah you can’t say ‘g.ay p.orn’ I guess!
re: Pedophil[ia], Beastility [sic], or Polygamy
I don’t have a problem with gay marriage, polygamy, polyandry, ot other non-traditional relationships as long as they are between consenting adults. That is the root fo the criminalization of pedophilia and bestiality: the participants are by definition not all consenting parties.
Oh, Will_
You’re sure “independent.” And, apparently, homophobic. You’re going to have a lot of “get over it” to do. You should have started decades ago.
“I have no problem with the gay community but the more tolerent I become the more they want to push there agenda down my throat. You can not watch a show on the major network after 8:00 pm that does not have someone gay on it. I have now had to explain why there are 2 men or women kissing each other. So I have explained it to them this way. Either they have chose to do this because of there lack of morals. Or, they have been born with a birth defect that did not allow them to like the opposite sex.”
Just like YOU were born with a birth defect that caused you to like the oppsite sex. BTW, I can hear your tolerance increasing from here. Try to keep it down.
“Now here I am in the State of Washington who again is trying to put into law the gay agenda…The employer has the right to higher and fire as they feel fit based on what they need as an employee and should not fear being sued because they did not hire a gay person.”
Yes, just like they should be able to hang blacks because they’re black, and gas Jews because they’re Jews. Oh, and torture and kill Christians because they’re Christian, but not the right KIND of Christian. Ooops, did I say that?
“If you keep your personal lifestyle quiet and not try to flaunt it then there would be no problem.”
Yes, there’s nothing like living a lie to make one a heathy, non-suicidal, productive member of society. If only you hadn’t revealed that you’re “indepenedent.” Now we’re going to have to ship you to the camp.
funny thing about polygyny (I believe thats the gender-neutral version…)
The bible isn’t really down on it, to my understanding. The single marriage thing seems to be more a product of Christian tradition. Kinda like the Sharia but not codified…
Its still a good way to get the righties riled up tho’
Windie: PacMan and I both stated we are from inner cities on the east coast. He had a continuous father and I come from a divorced parent homelife. You have to pay more attention to what we write, not what you interpret! We both speak ebonic english. I speak in comfortable terms and verbiage. I speak for myself. HE speaks for himself. I am on ASSes all the time. He is only on at certain times Windie. You are so fixated at two black men whom are off the reservation and you moonbats can’t fathom it!
He usually is always nice except to StuckASS and Rabbit’s Foot! I can be nice when I meet nice bloggers and I can be as vitriolic and vehement as the jackASSes here on ASSes! I hope that helps.
BTW PacMan does not write like me! It may be close but I like to be very easy with my english. I mix metaphors for DJ, I twist the queen’s english for Dr. E, and I debate adults like GBS!
puddy chill. Damn you’re easy… If I really wanted to make you really really mad, it wold be scary!
If you can’t take a little light-hearted ribbing, why are you even here?
All questions will be answered if you show to pay off GBS.
The fact remains, if you go through your posts and the pacman posts, it comes off totally as someone talking to himself. Maybe you’re just really well in sync.
Either way, since this seems to really bug you, I suggest ya just not talk ’bout it till ‘the meeting’. Presumably all will be well then, and I’ll be glad to provide an apology… if I’m proven wrong
I find it wonderfully ironic that someone so emotionally fragile has made his chosen insult calling people ‘ass’ (yes I understand why you do it, but still) and saying that they’re children… its cute!
Lately when I have been posting from Ohio I have seen this and it causes me to lose my response:
The page is currently unavailable
Due to current high demand, the page you are looking for cannot be delivered right now.
——————————————————————————–
Please click the Refresh button, or try again later.
HTTP Error 408 / 409 – Not acceptable / Resource conflict
Internet Explorer
Are anyone else seeing this?
Trying again. Emothional fragility? Nice touch windie. I guess you bitch slapped me :) :0
you’re a wierd duck, puddy… Sometimes I feel like you actually ‘get it’ :p
Windie: I admit I can follow your logic. Eventhough I disagree with your politics, and you sometimes wax sophomoric, you put effort into your argument. Have you been watching the masters, Mr X, Dr. e and GBS? If so I commend you for your education.
Regarding the “if I am proven wrong” comment: Oh, yes you will be!
well we’ll see.
Anyways, as I’ve said before, I try for somethin’ different than someone like GBS or DJ does… I’m well used to internet trolls and other ne’erdowells, so I feel its my place to ‘take care of them’….
Just look at the example of ‘PRR the Unchristian Catholic’.