Shortly after receiving a complaint in Utter vs. BIAW this morning alleging illegal collaboration between Dino Rossi and the Building Industry Association of Washington, a King County Superior Court judge has issued an order approving the plaintiffs’ request to immediately subpoena witnesses and begin taking depositions. Subpoenas will be served by October 7, and depositions will begin October 15.
In a press release, plaintiffs’ attorney Knoll Lowney said:
“One of the purposes of this suit is to learn Dino Rossi’s precise role in this fundraising effort, which the State Attorney General has deemed illegal. We obviously have substantial evidence that Rossi assisted in this fundraising, or the Justices could not have proceeded with their lawsuit. Now that the Judge has allowed us to begin discovery immediately, we will learn how deeply he was involved.”
Indeed we will. Though, even under this expedited process it unlikely injunctive relief can come soon enough to prevent the BIAW from spending the remainder of its illegal warchest.
Of course, Rossi and the BIAW could attempt to resist the subpoenas by requesting a protective order, but if, as they claim, they have nothing to hide, why would they want to do that?
Mark Musser in the March issue of the BIAW Building Insight newsletter:
“I explored the actual connection between environmental extremism and Hitler’s Nazi party.”
“What environmentalists offer today, instead of the racist German National Socialism that defined the Nazi party, is an international environmental socialism, an almagam of Nazism and communism – an international environmental socialism with a centralized planning scheme.”
“So, much like Stalin and Hitler were divided on how to best go about their socialistic schemes, environmentalists are also divided over how to best go socialistic scheme of controlling human development – either by burning houses down with Molotov cocktails, or slowly squeezing the life out of it through extensive, Soviet-esque micromanagment. Homebuilders are thus caught between militant ecofascism (radical enviromentalists like ELF) and communistic bureaucracy (DOE).”
The BIAW’s Brad Spears throws in, “The older folks in the mainstream enviro groups silently applaud this new and novel approach: If you build it, we will burn it. It’s the next natural step in the environmental movement.”
Vote for Gregoire. We don’t need the BIAW haters and their lackey, Dino Rossi, running this state.
The amount of revenue Gregoire traded away to keep expanded tribal gambling out of our state is chickenfeed compared to what Rossi’s taxpayer-financed payoff to BIAW will be if he wins.
“Subpoenas will be served by October 7, and depositions will begin October 15.”
Ah, such a lovely sentence. I get a woody just thinking about the scampering around occurring today at the BIAW/Rossi headquarters. Of course, the paper shredding and computer file erasing that must be going on as well is probably frantic.
@1 For photo of BIAW environmental planning department, google the word “bulldozer.”
Don’t worry, folks, the Bush Economy is going to take care of BIAW. By the time we hit 1929-plus-eighty, the vacant housing overhang will be so large it’ll be 50 years before anyone hires a builder again.
5 Right. So we’ll be seeing more of what’s referred to on the east coast as “successful fires”, which the BIAW will loudly proclaim to be the work of “enviro-nazis”.
Being nit-picky … wouldn’t that be a Thurston County Superior Court judge? That’s what the header of the PDF says.
Earlier today I posted a link to this article about a property developer in Kennewick who’s demanding that a reservist called up for service in Kuwait finish landscaping his lawn….
Kennewick reservist faces threats over landscaping
Way to support our troops!!!!!!
As I said before, I don’t know if this guy is a member of the BIAW, or a Republican, but as a property developer in Kennewick, combined with his attitude, the odds are that he is.
I’ve tried to do some quick research and I didn’t find anything under Chick Edwards. Even Oak Hill Country EstateHomeowner’s Association didn’t appear, although you would expect a non-profit corporation to have been filed.
I did find something under a similar name, but considering what a jerk this guy is I wouldn’t want to make a mistake and accidently brand someone who didn’t deserve it. Maybe the superior research skills of Richard Pope could turn up something. I would love to find out if this guy is a BIAW member.
If it turns out he’s a Democrat, he’s still a jerk, and I’d be the first to tell him so.
Seems to me one of the problems with the BIAW is they have too much time on their hands. The economy has them sitting around grousing all the time instead of putting it to more productive use. Perhaps this litigation will helped them solve that problem. I think at least a three-day deposition for each of the BIAW persons involved would be about right, don’t you?
IN our state any citizen can serve a subpoena. So would it not be grand if the Gov served Rossi at the next debate.
“High I’m Dino Rossi”
//Bam consider yourself served!
Particle Man @ 10: Actually, I think if you are not a lawyer you have to get the court’s permission to serve the subpoena, or have them issued by the court clerk. Lawyers can issue subpoenas over their own signature without prior permission. In this case, they needed court approval for an expedited discovery process (faster than normal rules allow).
Not a problem then rhp6033, the gov is a lawyer.
11
Anyone 18 or over can serve a subpoena so long as the server is not a party to the lawsuit. Signing a subpoena is different. Lawyers can sign them, or anyone can get them issued by court clerks. I believe it will be important to have plenty of people ready to start obtaining and serving subpoenas once the Republicans get driven from government. There will be such a need for subpoenas that we’ll need to recruit servers.
Obama lives in Hyde Park area of Chicago in his small neighborhood lives Louis Farrakhan and homegrown Terrorist William Ayers their children attend school together.
The have community block parties.
Obama has allot of friends on the shady side and if elected we know they will be in the cabinet. We do have some good news over 80% of our Military will stand behind Senator McCain. The uninformed like 90% on this blog hate America and support his friends here and abroad.
N @7,
Hmm. The press release says King County, but yes, the PDF says Thurston, so the latter is probably correct. I’ll double check.
@14 “if elected”
If? It looks worse for McCain by the hour.
http://www.pollster.com/polls/.....ge-mvo.php
Hmm, it looks like Americans are about to wash their hands of the Republicans and their non-stop whining. Maybe you goatfuckers can make a comeback in a generation or two.
Upon reading the order, I’ve decided that it’s premature to celebrate. It’s an ex-parte order, meaning that the other side wasn’t there to defend against it. That means that the BIAW will probably have it’s lawyers in court by tomorrow morning seeking a motion to quash the subpoenas and the deposition schedule. There will be lots more activity this week.
One of the few tricks left in the Republican bag – suppress the vote.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/.....038;page=1
“Kill Him!”
http://voices.washingtonpost.c....._roug.html
Where do you live Albert??? Inquiring minds want to know what type of person you are, and we can only know that by the neighbors you keep. I admit that last night a neighbor, just around the corner, stabbed and killed one of his roommates, and critically wounded another. Thus, given your apparent rationale, i am a supporter and advocate for murdering roommates; good thing i don’t have one eh??
What a bunch of stupid shit.
Be honest, Steve. Palin didn’t say it, someone in the crowd did. Probably a plant from Code Pink.
So what is Obama hiding in his donations? Why won’t he tell us who are all those donors giving him $200 and less?
But don’t fret about real scandal, just keep ranting about the BIAW. It is easier on your petty brains.
Janet’s just trying to deflect attention from the real scandals.
Now the five Alaska Republicans who lost their bid to stop the legislative investigation into “Troopergate” have a motion before the Alaska Supreme Court to halt the investigation, scheduled for Wednesday. The investigator’s report is due on Friday Oct. 10th, and the Alaska legislature is due to go into recess soon until after the election. So if the Republican effort is successful, even temporarily, they can stop the report from being issued.
Which brings up the question – what is it about this report that the Republicans are so afraid of????????
Just a refresher: About two months before Palin was nominated to be V.P., the Alaska State Legislature, dominated by Republicans, voted to investigate Palin’s actions in dismissing the head of the Alaska Highway Patrol. Palin said she welcomed the investigation. Then within days of being selected as V.P. nominee, she said she would no longer coooperate as the investigation was “too political”, and filed a complaint – against herself – before the Personnel Board so that it could be investigated by three people hand-picked by herself. Her husband has defied the subpoena to testify at a deposition, and state employees have been instructed not to appear even though the governor and Lt. Gov. had previously agreed that they would. On Friday Todd Palin had announced he would agree to speak with investigators, but he was referring only to the governor’s hand-picked committee, not the independent legislative investigation.
Gee, it must suck to be on the McCain campaing bus right now, considering today’s headlines:
The only good news for McCain is that there is so much bad news today, some of it gets pushed to the back-burner by the other bad news.
@21:
Obama accepts no PAC money and allows no 527 collaboration – unlike McCain. He has many donors who have given small amounts to his campaign since they are not rich. No law requires small donors to reveal who they are. In fact, it is a point of pride that so many Americans have given small amounts to Obama as it shows grass roots support.
So your little note is not only pathetic, it is downright stupid. Please take your republican talking points to some other place where people are ignorant enough to not see through your obvious little innuendos that don’t mean a darn thing.
Janet – if you really are Janet – it is much more topical and important who the people are who advise the candidates. Look at the inner circle of McCain – lobbyists all, including Rick Davis lobbyist for Freddie Mac and Phil Gramm – lobbyists and author of the banking deregulation bill.
Now who is going to clean up Washington? Certainly not someone who never learned the lessons of the Keating 5 and who populates his entire campaign with lobbyists.
Who cares about individuals who give less than $100 or so? As individuals, they can’t have any undue influence on the candidate. What are they going to do, send Obama an e-mail saying that if they don’t pass the bill they want, they are going to take their $100 elsewhere in the next election? It’s those who give the big money we should be worried about.
@14: albert
Let’s see. You live in the Seattle area. the green river killer lived in the area. Why are you associating with mass murderers?
That is the extent of your pathetic argument. Did you ever learn about something called logic? Try using it sometime.
You know the funny thing about the consequences of these political games trying to harpoon pro-business groups like BIAW???
BIAW is composed of 13,000 members which includes supplies, contractors, subcontractors and other involved in the Construction Industry. These 13,000 members employ HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of people and generate HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS…actually BILLIONS of revenue to the State in the form of sales tax, B&O Tax, real estate excise tax, gas tax, unemployment taxes, L&I taxes etc. etc. etc.
The construction business is in the shitter.
Other Industries are equaly hard-hit.
More & more construction industry businesses, retailers & hospitality, truckers…you name it are being forced to close their doors or cutback personel drastically resulting in more unemployments and less tax revenue into the State coffers. Boeing & the Machinist Union are not even talking! Minimum Wage is going up to $8.55/hr. January 1st!
Yet most of you KLOWNS fail to see the consequences.
Allow me to share an analogy—–
The LEFTISTS have a 9mm Glock in their right hand with their left arm around the neck of business. They have the gunpointed at the gut of business and are firing!!
They may successfully kill business…are finding out that while they were gleefully emptying a clip into business………..THE BULLETS WENT THRU BUSINESS AND ARE SHOOTING & KILLING THEMSELVES!!!
Can you picture this??
Here are people who allegedly want good jobs and more tax revenue to build the Utopian State of Washington…actually shooting & killing the means to their dream!!
Think about it.
I’m sure most of you KLOWNS will somehow try to disconnect associations from their members….but it’s not true. All associations do is mirror what their members want. THEY ARE VOLUNTARY..unlike Unions which are mandatory.
Friends…
Set aside all the anger & hatred for just a second and answer this question:
IF business is forced to layoff or close due to failing economic considitions resulting in a doubling of the current unemployment rate from 6% to 12% (feasible if you consider the Boeing strike too)….
where will the replacement jobs and tax revenue come from??
An income tax??
That will make it worse because business owners personal income has taken a huge hit in virtually every industry with the increased cost of goods, materials and other impacts of rising oil/fuel prices.
I know some of you have zero respect for private industry and love your government jobs. How long before you or your family are RIF’d!???
What about those of you who claim to love to SHOP LOCALLY, HATE CORPORATE AMERICAN and want small business to be successful….and want jobs for the middle-class???
This jig-saw puzzle don’t work folks.
Explain to me how all the pieces fit??
Friends….friends don’t let other friends corrupt the political process and prevent the enforcement of environemntal laws that protect all of us.
And bush has killed the BIAW through the banking industry fallout more than any liberal ever could.
Rick Davis lobbied for Freddie Mac, and McCain was against the bill he was pushing.
Franklin Raines was CEO of Fannie Mae, and walked away with over $90 million based on fraudulent accounting. He now advises Obama.
Which situation raises more questions? Of course, McCain.
McCain was exonerated by the DEMOCRATS in the Keating 5.
Obama is the second largest recipient of brib-er-donations from Fannie Mae, after only three years in the Senate!
The media repeats the former, ignores the latter.
And all those small donations. Why has every other campaign chosen to reveal who the small donors are? Ever consider that the same fraudulent or foreign source could make repeated small donations, all the while hiding behind the cloak of Obama’s secrecy?
Nah. The media would have found it out, if true.
I have just heard a rumor that revised numbers for the projected budget shortfall for the next biennium are now over $4 BILLION!!
So let me get this straight…the economy is in the shitter, but Gregoire will balance this without a tax increase. You KLOWNS want an income tax because consumers are not consuming BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO MONEY!!
Please put the puzzle pieces together for me.
My guess is the next Governor will have to layoff 8,000–10,000 State Employees.
Local governments will have to layoff just as many.
I believe Obama will win..
To do what he promises, Obama will have to layoff HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of Federal Workers.
Poor Janet – McCain was not exonerated – he was let off.
Raines was briefly with the Obama campaign – no longer.
Rick Davis was a lobbyist until last month and lied about it.
McCain supported the main thrust of the bill proposed and lobbied for by Rick Davis – all he proposed was a private oversight board that could have been nore susceptible to influence. The bill never made it out of the republican senate.
Obama accepts no PAC money – so those are private donations from individuals – so there is no possiblity of influence peddling. You got nothing there – but some tired republican talking points.
There is still a campaign limit of 2400 per person.
Why did McCain illegally take a loan against public financing and then opt out? Breaking his own campaign law?
Again, you have nothing.
@31: Here is a hint cynical – in a depression you spend to help get the contry out of it. If the republicans had not wasted a surplus on Iraq and deregulated the banking industry – we would not be in this mess.
It takes the adults to clean up the messes of Bush and his cronies.
incorrect–
So you are telling us O-blah-blah and Gregoire will GOVERNMENT SPEND US out of a deep recession?!!
And the money will come from major tax increases on?? Rich guys???
That will work well c-man.
Try again.
This is for ‘Albert’:
Obama was 8 years old when the weather underground was active. Ayers is a college professor. Whatever he was involved in 40 years ago has nothing to do with Obama. Innuendo is hardly the stuff of reasoned debate.
Also–
The Democratic controlled Congress makes laws & submits Budgets.
You KLOWNS are obsessed with blaming Bush.
And dodging all culpability.
Have fun with that.
Rural life is the place to be….as Big Government cities like Seattle implode in this recession. I don’t need any help. We have plenty of food stored (2 freezers) and a 1,400 square foot cellar complete with canned fruit, veggies & with 500-bottle Wine Cellar.
We have gardens too.
And an arsenal to protect it.
We are used to living in tough climates.
We have no need to leave except Medical.
And room for our family.
Rural folks can handle the pending doom.
Can y’all?
@27
Allot more than your assumption.
He is connected at the hip with these two,plus many in the middle east non white love him.
He and his wife said they hate whites and America. The Big October Surprise is yet to come.
The polls look worse for America-hating trolls with each passing day.
http://pollster.com/polls/2008president/
It must suck to be you.
@35
Well, Obama started his politics in the Ayers living room he wasn’t 8 years old maybe his mind was. Obama associates are the hate whits hate America felons who been trying to take down my country for years.
@38
Great the more it looks like the scumbag is leading the better it will be for McCain.
@36:
In the US system of government – that I have already explained to cynical but he is too dull to understand or remember, it takes 67 votes to overcome a veto and 60 votes to stop a threatened filibuster in the Seante. Therefore, the democrats do not have a working majority but Bush had one for 6 years.
do I blame bush and the republicans for causing the banking crisis?
Yes – bush for the lack of oversiht and the republicans for pushing deregulation. specifically, Phil Gramm was the primary sponsor for the bill that deregulated the banking industry in 1999 – and it passed on a party line vote. Phil Gramm is one of the primary economic advisors to McCain. Phil Gramm said we were a country of whiners and that the economy was fundamentally sound. Phil Gramm is a fool.
Bush kept repeating that the economy was sound. He reacted late, he supports deregulation. He also turned a budget surplus into the largest deficit in history.
@39: got any proof for that – Obama attended ONE political local event at Ayers house – he lives three blocks away.
You guys keep repeating the same crap and you have nothing.
I went to a house party with a terrorist once – I had no idea.
McCain served on the board of a racist front goup. Palin was the keynote speaker at a conference of traitors.
So what?
@39 Hmm, it looks like you could use a little assistance.
http://www.grammarbook.com/english_rules.asp
rhp6033, here are the links you are looking for regarding the Kennewick reservist:
http://oakhillcountryestates.com/contact.htm
http://www.tri-cityherald.com/.....40159.html
http://www.tri-cityherald.com/.....40159.html
http://www.tri-cityherald.com/.....40754.html
Edwards Property Tax Info: EDWARD JR CECIL H & MARSHA 32220 S OAK ST, KENNEWICK, WA,99337-6410 ParcelTaxID 119804000002000 Irrigated Ag Land Neighborhood 123453 Acres 20.210 Legal Description Property Information PORTION OF SECTION 19, TOWNSHIP 8, RANGE 30 DEFINED AS FOLLOWS: THE PORTION OF THE SOUTHEAST 1/4 AND IN THE SOUTH 1/2 OF THE SOUTH 1/2 OF THE SOUTH 1/2 OF THE NORTHEAST 1/4
@42
McCain and Palin stuff is nothing compared your scumbag Obama, With 80 % of our military against Obama we have a good feeling tonight..
@43
“It” in your reply wasn’t needed you should buy the book.
@42
Yeah plenty check them out at the FBI.
Albert – wrong again:
http://blogs.news.com.au/news/.....efer_obama
Isn’t it great how the trolls on here are a fountain of misinformation they get from some right wing site or from the republican campaign that is paying them. How often do they actually cite something? Puddy cites – but when you go to the site it usually disproves what he says or is irrelevant.
@40:
poor albert – the guy is denying reality. the reality is that McCain has run one of the worst campaings in history and is the financial crisis showed his incompetence as did the VP pick of Palin.
Neither of them is qualified to be president based on competence alone.
You know what the funny thing about the consequences of these political games trying to harpoon pro-business groups like BIAW???
BIAW is composed of 13,000 members which includes supplies, contractors, subcontractors and others involved in the Construction Industry. These 13,000 members employ HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of people and generate HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS…actually BILLIONS of revenue to the State in the form of sales tax, B&O Tax, real estate excise tax, gas tax, unemployment taxes, L&I taxes etc. etc. etc.
The construction business is in the shitter.
Other Industries are equally hard-hit.
More & more construction industry businesses, retailers & hospitality, truckers…you name it are being forced to close their doors or cutback personel drastically resulting in more unemployments and less tax revenue into the State coffers. Boeing & the Machinist Union are not even talking! Minimum Wage is going up to $8.55/hr. January 1st!
Yet most of you KLOWNS fail to see the consequences.
Allow me to share an analogy—–
The LEFTISTS have a 9mm Glock in their right hand with their left arm around the neck of business. They have the gunpointed at the gut of business and are firing!!
They may successfully kill business…are finding out that while they were gleefully emptying a clip into business………..THE BULLETS WENT THRU BUSINESS AND ARE SHOOTING & KILLING THEMSELVES!!!
Can you picture this??
Here are people who allegedly want good jobs and more tax revenue to build the Utopian State of Washington…actually shooting & killing the means to their dream!!
Think about it.
I’m sure most of you KLOWNS will somehow try to disconnect associations from their members….but it’s not true. All associations do is mirror what their members want. THEY ARE VOLUNTARY..unlike Unions which are mandatory.
Friends…
Set aside all the anger & hatred for just a second and answer this question:
IF businesses are forced to layoff or close due to failing economic considitions… resulting in a doubling of the current unemployment rate from 6% to 12% (feasible if you consider the Boeing strike too)….
where will the replacement jobs and tax revenue come from??
An income tax??
That will make it worse because business owners personal income has taken a huge hit in virtually every industry with the increased cost of goods, materials and other impacts of rising oil/fuel prices.
I know some of you have zero respect for private industry and love your government jobs. How long before you or your family are RIF’d!???
What about those of you who claim to love to SHOP LOCALLY, HATE CORPORATE AMERICAN and want small business to be successful….and want jobs for the middle-class???
This jig-saw puzzle don’t work folks.
Explain to me how all the pieces fit??
I believe the next Governor will have to RIF 8,000–10,000 government employees. Unfortunately in our silly system, those RIF’d will be the newest & lowest paid workers…and not necessarily the lowest producers. This leaves the highest paid…and in some cases, burned out, low producers hanging on until retirement 30 years like Roger Rabbit did.
The result of this forced “seniority” system for RIF’s is more state employees will be RIF’s than if higher paid burnouts are RIF resulting in MORE FTE’s being eliminated thus less members paying dues.
The Unions will receive less dues.
Kind of shooting themselves in the foot.
This next biennium Budget Shortfall will be much higher than the $3.2 BILLION announced several weeks ago. The next announcement (probably after the election conveniently) will be closer to $4 BILLION!
It’s growing directly proportional to businesses failing & struggling. DUH!!!!!
I went to a good restaurant today in Lacey. 3 months ago, it was packed at lunch.
Today it was barely 1/3 FULL and virtually everyone there has special 2 for 1 coupons.
Same thing for dinner…2 for 1’s and perhaps half full. Restaurants everywhere are experiencing huge decreases in volume, being forced to cut prices & off 2 for 1’s at a time when minimum wage is set to increase to $8.55/hr. on 1/1, food costs have skyrocketed.
Revenue waaaaaaaaay down,
Costs waaaaaaaaaaay up.
How long can they do that.
Coffee shops, big chains like Starbucks and little 1-person operations…all waaaaaaaaay DOWN.
Smaller Retailers—-dead in the water.
Chain Stores like Wal-Mart & Target—DOWN but will survive and prosper as small, locally owned retailers fail because they cannot match the Chains deep discounting.
Christmas Toys will be introduced October 10th at DEEP DISCOUNTS by chains. Again, wiping out the little guy.
Get the picture.
Cause-and-effect.
Unwanted consequences.
So go ahead and fight business KLOWNS.
They are half-dead already.
It’s like you KLOWNS would kill your only cow because she wasn’t producing enough milk….then stand back when it’s too late, you’ve killed her squealing “SHIT, I DON’T HAVE ANY MILK!!”
You KLOWNS are…..____________
Let me be civil and say, You KLOWNS lake foresight.
@47
I’m talking about Military Votes in favor of McCain,not illegal money donations.
You lady’s are fools following a weak person with no values other than winning.
Trying reading.
Cynical @ 28, 49: I’m not sure why you posted this twice, but I’ll try to explain it to you.
You might be surprised to learn that Washington State already HAS an income tax in some form. It’s called the Business and Occupation Tax. It’s an income tax on businesses revenues. But it’s not an income tax on net profits. It’s an income tax based upon gross receipts, with the tax rate to be applied dependent upon the type of income in which the business is engaged.
Over the years, the state’s largest businesses have, from time to time, threatened to take their ball and go elsewhere to play, forcing the state to give them favorable tax breaks, so that for them the B&O tax is relatively inconsequential. Other industries have hired lobbyists that have done the same thing for their entire industries. That just leaves the small mom & pop businesses, the family farmer, etc. who bear the burden of the tax.
I mentioned before that it’s a tax on gross receipts, not profits. That means that it is biased against small businesses and newer businesses, which have higher expenses to gross income ratios than older, established businesses. Retaining the B&O tax as it currently stands is a priority for older, established businesses because it makes it harder for competitors to enter the market and compete effectively.
Because this tax is a tax on gross income and not profit, and because it disproportionately affects small businesses, receipts tend to have wide swings depending upon the economic climate. This is one of the reasons why the state budget always seems to go from boom to bust, with little in between. The smaller businesses are always the ones hurt the most in any economic downturn, and as their gross incomes plummit or they go out of business, the state’s revenues plummit.
To some extent the State sales tax is also a business tax, in that it adds directly to the price of every object sold in the state. The larger the price of the item, the larger the sales tax, and therefore the more likely the tax revenues will suffer in any economic downturn (as consumers put off large purchases until the economy improves). But it’s kind of a “dumb” tax, in that it still taxes people for items they have to buy regardless of their personal income circumstances (with the exceptions of food and medicine). For example, Bill Gates and an unemployed logger both have to pay the same sales tax on the Burgermaster combo meal, even though Bill Gates isn’t hurting, but it may be the unemployed logger’s last meal for quite some time.
So what we are really talking about isn’t a choice between NO income tax and an income tax. What we are talking about is whether we have a SMART income tax, one which is equally fair to both small and large businesses, as well as a personal income tax which provides stable funding through all business cycles, bringing in less from those who are temporarily in bad straights due to the economy and still taxing those who are doing well.
Remember that the primary purpose of all taxes is to raise money for the common good. To that extent, all taxes aren’t inherently “fair” or “unfair”, they are simply different ways to accomplish that goal. But the type of tax we choose, and the way we implement them, can have impacts which are less or more desirable.
Now we NEED to replace the B & O tax. It’s antiquated and hits small businesses too hard. A business income tax would be preferable, even if it’s tax-neutral. But you can’t have a “business” income tax without taxing personal income as well, because not all businesses are incorporated. So you need both an personal and corporate income tax, one which hopefully matches the federal calculations in order to keep the paperwork burden on small businesses as light as possible.
rhp–
Your bottom-line however = TAX INCREASE! during tough economic times and declining incomes. Impossible sell.
You will try the “tax the rich guys” worn-put line….but folks with no jobs are not going to put more of anybody’s money into the State Tub of Bureaucratic goo.
Workers are beginning to understand…if Government keeps fleecing business…their jobs are in jeopardy!!! Duh!
Times have been great for years.
We are now paying for our good times.
Businesses have choices….more & more will fold their cards and take their chips off the table leaving workers unemployed and their houses worth 1/2 what they are now.
Connect the dots rhp.
This economic downturn has serious consequences. The only way out is thru strong business environment.
You KLOWNS are incapable of seeing unintended consequences of your LEFTIST Agenda. All you see is anger and kill the opposition…even if it is the “opposition” who pays the bills.
The only way you will learn is to actually FEEL these consequences….which most of you will in the next couple of years.
Also rhp–
Small business already is exempt or given tax credits if below a certain gross revenue for B&O Tax.
According to Google Phonebook, Chick Edwards has two listings:
Chick Edwards (509) 582-5679 32220 S Oak St,Kennewick, WA 99337
and
Chick Edwards (541) 566-2992 Weston, OR 97886
The two locations are about 15 minutes apart, which probably means one is his home and the other is his business. FYI.
Cynical @ 52 & 53,
You’re missing the point. Entirely. Have you forgotten basic Economic theory?
Profits are maximized when marginal revenue equals marginal cost. This equation is where the difference between the B&O tax and an income tax becomes important. Look at the math:
Revenue = (Price * Quantity) – (Tax * Price * Quantity)
Marginal revenue is the slope of the curve, so differentiate with respect to quantity sold:
Marginal Revenue = Price * (1 – Tax)
With a tax on profits, the tax doesn’t show up in marginal revenue. Marginal revenue is simply equal to price.
In other words, the difference between the B&O tax and a business profit tax is analogous to the difference between a variable cost and a fixed cost.
The effect of the B&O tax is the same as a left-ward shift in the supply curve. Price goes up, and quantity sold goes down. A business profit tax doesn’t have this problem.
So, if you want a “strong business environment,” convert the B&O tax to a business profit tax.
Cynical;
You keep assuming an income tax would be a tax increase. For some it would be, for others it wouldn’t. As I said, you could make it revenue-neutral if you want to, so that it doesn’t result in any real increase in state revenue. But it might even out the state revenue flow from one year to the other, but doing so in a manner which doesn’t hurt those who would be impacted the most.
As for the B&O tax credit from small businesses, this is from the Dept. of Revenue website:
Obviously, any business falling under the $841.00 annual tax liability number isn’t just a small business – it’s more of a hobby. Not that I’m against it, because my own web business (which is NOT my day job) falls within this category. But for a small business with a handful of employees, that tax credit doesn’t amount to much, and it doesn’t impact the premise that the B&O tax disproportionately impacts small businesses in Washington State.
Now note, we aren’t talking about total tax revenue, or whether taxes should be increased or decreased, or whether state spending should be increased or decreased. We are only talking about the method of calculationg and collecting the tax. Do you really have an objection to a state income tax other than your suspician that it will result in a tax increase to you?
Ace: I heard an interview on the Bob Rivers show with this Chick Edwards guy. On the radio, he sounded fairly reasonable, he claimed that the journalist who interviewed him caught him on a “bad hair day”.
Whatever.
According to him, Jensen isn’t actually in Kuwait yet, he’s taking pre-deployment training at Ft. Lewis and coming home on weekends, so he could fix the property if he wanted to.
He also claimed to not be a real developer, he claimed to be a “hay farmer” who’s slowly selling off his fields for housing.
But he never explained why, if he saw Jensen home on weekends, he never went over to his house and offered to make a deal to fix the problem – perhaps helping him put in the irrigation system for a reasonable price, etc. Instead he just has his lawyer fire off threatening letters.
I’m still glad I’m not his neighbor. And he’s lucky Jensen hasn’t just turned over the property to his bank to let them deal with the it.
According to Google Phonebook, Chick Edwards has two listings:
Chick Edwards (509) 582-5679 32220 S Oak St,Kennewick, WA 99337
and
Chick Edwards (541) 566-2992 Weston, OR 97886
The two locations are about 15 minutes apart, which probably means one is his home and the other is his business. FYI.