The Senate just failed to close debate on the Defense Spending Bill, after the Democrats, led by Sen. Maria Cantwell, filibustered the cynical inclusion of a provision that would open the Alaska National Wildlife Refuge to oil drilling. The motion failed 56 to 44; 60 votes were needed for cloture. Four Democrats voted yea, and three Republicans voted nay.
UPDATE:
The AP has a quote from the victorious Sen. Cantwell:
“This is nothing more than legislative blackmail,” fumed Sen. Maria Cantwell, D-Wash., an ardent opponent to opening the Alaska refuge to oil companies.
I hope Congress enjoys their holiday in session, courtesy of Alaska’s blackmailing Sen. Ted Stevens.
UPDATE, UPDATE:
The League of Conservation Voters has just issued a press release praising Cantwell’s leadership:
“We applaud Sen. Maria Cantwell for successfully leading the fight to reject this shameful political attempt to allow drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.Today’s vote to protect the Arctic represents the triumph of democracy over greed. Cynical attempts to hold hostage funds to support our troops, offer relief to hurricane ravaged states and warm the cold, old and poor in order to benefit a select few failed before our eyes.
“In addition, Sen. Cantwell’s ongoing efforts to prevent unneeded and dirty drilling in our pristine wilderness areas is another example of her commitment to fighting for Washington families and standing up to the big oil companies
We’re on a win streak folks. Blow after crushing blow to the liars, crooks, cooks and cheats on the republican side of the aisle who want to ruin America! Hooray for Maria. Teddie has just made sure she wins in 06!
“Crushing blows”!!!!!!!!! Yay!!!!!!!!!
I mean it … I’m not being snide… Fuck the Republican bastards. “Let them eat boo-boo!!”
Frist takes the ball from center … hands off on a reverse … it’s a double reverse to Stevens … NO, it’s an end-around play action pass! Stevens looks downfield … winds up to throw the bomb … AND HE’S FLATTENED by a blitzing corner!
Cantwell gets the game ball.
Stevens limps off the field cursing a blue streak – and plotting blindside payback (of which he’s very capable).
And it is GW’s fault that gas costs so much. I’ll bet that
there are not even 10 dems in all of WA that could find ANWR
on a map.
A win is great but America also needs to kick its addiction to oil and its dependence on getting energy from other countries. What’s needed is a giant push for Energy Independence as well as efforts to reduce our overall consumption of oil and coal and other energy resources that contribute to global warming. Its time to push Congress to get serious on reducing greenhouse gas production by pushing for increased fuel efficiency for all cars and trucks. Just shifting to hybrid cars would be a great step. Let’s put Republican Corporate America on the defense. Would we really be in Iraq if it didn’t have any oil? How many Americans and Iraq citizens must die to feed America’s lust for oil?
MOM: I’m one of ’em. I’ve walked on summer tundra and I know what drilling will do. ” Don’t be afraid, Kathy, I’ll be gentle.” Yeah, riiiiiiiiight!
Well mom, it really is GW’s fault on the gas thing.
You see, GW did nothing to block exports of finished product (gasoline) during our shortage crisis (50% of the gasoline produced in Washington state is exported overseas…even during Katrina)
And, you see, during Katrina, GW allowed foreign ships to haul finished products (gasoline) to any destination they wanted to, further increasing our shortage here.
And, GW was so worried about the cost of fuel that he limited his oil company buddies to a mere 300% profit margin last quarter.
(amazing how the cost of gas has dropped almost $1/gallon since the profit raping was reported.)
And, our good friend Ted Stevens isn’t so much worried about our own fuel future…he’s worried about his retirement plan of sending gasoline overseas.
Besides, study after study shows there’s about a 6 month supply of oil in ANWAR….not the vast oil field that Stevens promotes.
Ummm… somebody check my math here… didn’t a substantial majority of Senators disagree with Senator Windfall? Isn’t this proof that she is quite out of step with mainstream thinking?
@ 9
Just checked your math. And, you’re still wrong, you chump. When you tally up the senators and the number of AMERICANS they represent, she’s right there with mainstream, patriotic AMERICANS and not the narrow minded, spying on AMERICANS and to hell with the Constitution republicans.
Moron.
I’m with Steve Z.
We should have had an EMERGENCY “Petro;eum Based Energy Dependence Intervention Progrem” for $450 BILLION DOLLARS intead of this fuckin’ useless war.
GBS – “Spying on Americans”??? WTF are you talking about?
GBS – As usual, you’re full of shit. The House passed this bill by huge margin, and as you probably don’t know, the House is apportioned by population. So as usual, I’m right.
Moron.
Mark @13: You said Senators in your previous post not Congressmen. So how are you right? Oh, I see, u r a conservative, so, by saying you said one thing (when u didn’t) and then backing it up with a non-related issue, you can claim you are right. Which u weren’t.
MTR
I’d call you wrong on this. That is, the Pentagon appropriations bill passed 308-106. It was not specifically a vote on ANWR, and according to the AP account, “Democrats were split as they were confronted with a choice of opposing money for the troops in Iraq or voting for ANWR drilling.”
There’s no filibuster in the House, or this abomination of adding this measure to a defense bill in wartime would never have passed there either.
Go Cantwell. Guts and glory!
JFC Larry – Look at the votes in both Senate and House. A clear majority in both chambers voted for it. Is that so fucking hard to understand?
mtr@17 is showing “How to argue like a conservative #1”
Be deliberately dense
Understanding what daddy and GBS are saying would involve admitting he was wrong, and thats just not possible!
(and this guy thinks women are dumb!)
Perhaps I’m being stupid, but where are these quotes you’ve pulled?
Google for “We applaud Sen. Maria Cantwell for successfully” reveals nothing, and lcv.org’s press release says nothing about Cantwell. I may be missing it, but I see nothing else on their site which might be relevant.
(I couldn’t find the Cantwell quote at first blush, hence the initial plural. “where is this” it should read.)
@ 13, 17
Quit talking out of both sides of your mouth like a typical snake-oil salesmen that conservatives are known to be. You said Senators and your math was wrong.
Your smoke screen about the majority in the House is irrelevant. That is why our Founding Fathers set up how the legislative body works, to prevent BAD legislation from running amok.
Which leads to another hypocrisy about neocon-victs: they understand and believe in what our Founding Fathers instituted for governing the people.
Moron.
@ 12
GBS – “Spying on Americans”??? WTF are you talking about?
I’m talking about the President of the United States admitting to an impeachable offense by secretly authorizing the NSA and the military to spy on citizens within the borders of the United States without court oversight.
He took an oath to uphold and protect the laws in the Constitution. The point of law he is breaking is OUR 4th amendment rights.
Moron.
Republicans are so morally bankrupt it’s pathetic.
GBS – So you think doing stuff like listening in on phone conversations is illegal? Where do you get that?
just donated $100 to the DNC because of Senator Cantwell’s efforts. I encourage all other liberals to donate something, even if it’s only $5 or $10. It all helps to defeat the culture of corruption that has its death grip on our democracy.
@ 24
The 4th amendment.
Moron.
I just donated $50 to the DNC in the name of Steffy from UNSoundPolitics!
Mark The RETARDLICAN:
Have an adult help you read and understand this. There are BIG people words in it.
FOURTH AMENDMENT [U.S. Constitution] – ‘The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.’
Ooooooooohhh I see. So for example…. when McDermott got the tapes of Newt that were illegally recorded that was a violation of the 4th Amendment? So does that mean he’s “so morally bankrupt it’s pathetic”. If I follow your logic, he should be impeached too. Is that right? Also, is NYT equally culpable?
How does it feel to step on a rake and get whacked in the face? LMAO…
Moron…
THIS JUST IN! COWARDLY REPUBLICANS CAN’T FIND ANYONE WITH STONES TO TAKE ON SENATOR CLINTON!
http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITI.....index.html
To all patriotic and liberty loving Americans.
Mark The Rednecks comments at 24 are chilling. This clearly demonstrates how little people who vote conservative understand their/our constitutional rights. This is exactly how we will transform from a representative democracy to a police state.
GBS – Yes I agree. McDermott “chillingly” demonstrates how little he understands the constitution. Left in office, he will transform us from a representative democracy to a police state.
Moron. Geez, you walked right into it. Man, that was great. You went hook line and sinker.
LMAO……
Mark; an individual can’t violate the constitution, dummy… only the government can.
However, I’m going to humor your insanely blatant smokescreen for a moment. Actually no I’m not. McDermott has NOTHING AT ALL to do with the Gov’t doing illegal phone taps without warrents…
And what about that FBI, conducting surveillance on gay college groups? ‘Cause you know those gays having kiss-ins to protest “Don’t ask, Don’t tell” are members of Al Qaeda, and massive terrorism threats.
The Gov’t under bush is way over the line.
addendum to 33:
We know the “Pigfucker” trick, MTR… Give it up, and try to deal with the facts.
@ 29
You mean the same way Monica’s conversation was illegally tapped and the turned over to Ken Starr, who illegally leaked the information to the prosecutor in Arkansas? Who in turn developed a line of questioning that trapped President Clinton into lying about having an extramarital affair.
Which the fucking republicans DID impeach him over?
And yet, Bush admits he secretly authorized violating the Constitutionally protected rights of every American and not one peep?
Ney and Dukester get caught red handed (gotta love the double entendre there “red handed” means stealing and red is for conservatives) and not even an ethics committee review.
How’s the welt on your face doing from the rake?
Moron.
MTR obviously lives a rich fantasy life in which what he says means a shit.
Mark the Yellow Neck:
I didn’t take anything hook, line, and sinker. You dip shit.
I merely pointed out your unpatriotic thinking. You, and people like you, are more dangerous to America than Al Qaeda will ever be. Dumb Asses like you can vote for the corrupt politicians who erode our rights and liberties. Exactly, Bush says the TERRORIST hate us.
Why do you align yourself with the families of the Bin Laden’s and the Bush’s?
Why do you hate America so much?
Do you want an Islamic state here like you’re party is creating in Iraq?
MTR
I’ll say it slowly:
The President, our head of state, has ordered the national Security Agency to monitor the communications of American citizens without obtaining a warrant. This is a pretty clear violation of the Fourth Amendment and an even clearer violation of the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA). It is a blatantly illegal and unconstitutional offense against innocent Americans.
McDermott (to whom you wish to turn the conversation because it’s too hot now for the Boy Hero) resigned from the Ethics Committee, was never charged with any illegal act, and is appealing the judgment against him from JOhn Boehner’s civil suit. When charges are preferred in Junior’s case, I hope your passion is as intense.
Mark-
I applaud your efforts to speak sense to these asshats, but it never works. It is fun watching them get all lathered up over ANWR and the NSA, but they can’t see that there’s no there there.
GBS, get a life.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/.....sp?id=1314
GBS – That was great. Do it again on instant replay. Call me a moron. Tell people I’m “chilling”.
Be more careful next time when talking to one of your betters.
Moron.
hehe, I think its deliciously ironic that MTR is afraid to reply to me now… When GBS is doing such a better job of making him look like the fool he is.
Rightie troll thinking at its finest!
Danno – Sorry. I had to do it. He started going for it and then got all indignant and uppity. Couldn’t have scripted it any better. I crack myself up sometimes…
Mark The ‘Tard:
You’ll never be superiour to me. Ever. Not even in your wildest, wettest, Bill O’Rielly rubbing falafel all over your body dreams, buddy boy.
You’re one of them: the enemy, a domestic terrorist.
loser misogynistic trolls with mythical degrees who back out of bets aren’t exactly in a position to talk to anyone about ‘talking to your betters’.
Danno:
You’re a dick, too. Just like the ‘tard.
Of course I’m going to get angry watching criminals like bush destroy America. His Grandpa was involved with the Nazi’a and him and his Daddy are in bed with the Bin Laden’s.
I guess hating America runs rampant in the conservative movement.
Dick!
GBS-
Superiour, is that how you think surrender monkeys are supposed to spell it?
Oh yeah, speaking of “betters” where the Hell had Puddybud been lately?
That welcher still owes me from the David “Mother Beater” Irons bet.
What bet did you welch on again, ‘tard?
@ 46
No, that’s called a typo. See, I’m a liberal which means I have the moral clarity to admit when I’m wrong or have a made a mistake. I misspelled the word.
Dick’s like you and Bush lack the morality to admit when you’re wrong.
“Superior”
Feel better now? Dick!
I’m still right about bush violating the 4th amendment and you’re still a Dick!
Hey GBS – Since you have such great “moral clarity”, do you hereby demand that McDermott resign or face impeachement for violating the 4th amendment? Is he “chilling”. Is he “morally repugnant”. Is he leading us to a police state?
Be careful moron… am I doing it again?
@ 46
My apologies, I let my anger get the best of me. You’re not the “DICK” I kept saying you are.
I made another mistake.
Now that I’ve had time to cool down a bit and reflect upon what I was saying I’ve concluded that you’re not a dick.
You’re a superior dick.
There, I feel better now that I’ve set the record straight.
mark, I know you’re not answering because it shoots your whole specious argument to pieces…
But do you understand that an individual can’t violate the 4th amendment the way say… the NSA or FBI can? It may or may not be illegal, depending, but its not a civil rights violation.
But then again, the truth gets in the way of your fantasy… And being you, the truth will always lose
GBS-
Keep up the slobbering…
There is no there there. Do some independant research on the subject, leaving out asshat sources such as you are obviously reading. I mean leave out shit like Moveon, DU, Michael Moore, etc.
Here is a good example:
the November 2002 decision of the United States Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court of Review, in Sealed Case No. 02-001, where the court said:
“The Truong court [United States v. Truong Dinh Hung, 4th Cir. 1980], as did all the other courts to have decided the issue, held that the President did have inherent authority to conduct warrantless searches to obtain foreign intelligence information. *** We take for granted that the President does have that authority and, assuming that is so, FISA could not encroach on the President’s constitutional power.”
Get a life, loser.
And by the way, I am not a dick, I am a prick. Get over it.
@ 49
OK DICK Sr. IF, McDermott violated the 4th amendment state your case.
Specifically, how did he do it?
@ 49
Be careful, I just laid the rake trap for you.
Moron.
@ 53
Nope, you’re a DICK!
I love it when the morally and ethically superior (you may barf now) Republicans have to stoop to the “But the Democrats did it too!” defense. It is laugable.
Robert-
So much kool-aid so little time, drink up.
Hey MtR-
If these Facists can go after your PERSONAL, PRIVATE phone conversations without prior due process…
GUESS WHAT…
They can take your precious GUNS anytime they WANT!!!
2nd Amendment…2ND AMENDMENT????….
WE DON’T NEED NO FUCKING STEEENKING SECOND AMANDMENT!!!
Thankfully we have Cantwell to make up for Reichert’s lack of leadership.
Well done Senator Maria Cantwell!!
I just love seeing Mark The Villiage Idiot Rednack getting his ass handed to him… AGAIN!
And the loving support of danno, Mark’s Vagina hating boy slave is tooo cute!
Hey Donna – Any progress today? Should we start a “Word of the Day” thing? Try this: “router”. Tell me what it is, and why it’s important.
Hey Rujax -Read the whole thread you fucking idiot. Or I’ll do it to you too.
Moron.
Hey Danno, MTVIR’s boy toy, You did not provide a link for the BULLSHIT you posted @ 53, so I will. And I will post the conclusions of the Review Opinion so all can see that like all NEO-Convict Zombies, you twisted the truth. The opinion merely reverses a FISA action to disallow a specific electronic survelience, NOT the presidents ability to conduct warentless wiretaps on US Citizens.
You fucking MORON!
http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/.....11802.html
Hey, MTVIR, any further studies to back up your claim that vaginas are corelated with stoopidity?
Danno @ 53 “I am a prick.”
First true thing you have posted all year!
If I follow MTR’s logic, he thinks we should impeach the New York Times, and then step on a rake?
As far as I know, that step-on-a-rake routine doesn’t even work except in cartoons … which confirms my suspicions about where MTR gets his information.
Donna – Seriously, look around. It runs the gamut. Look at how fucked up things are here in FUWA and look at the number of SFWs in positions of power. Clear correlation. Ever seen one that can read a clock and a calendar, make a plan and do the plan? Few… When it comes to complex technical stuff, it’s even worse. There are few of them who can do anything technical.
Donna – Are you researching “router”. Get back to me.
4
To take the football analogy a bit further, there’s yellow flags all over the field every time these Republican motherbeaters run a play.
24
“GBS – So you think doing stuff like listening in on phone conversations is illegal? Where do you get that?”
From the law, which is something you gooper rednecks know nothing about.
29
“Ooooooooohhh I see. So for example…. when McDermott got the tapes of Newt that were illegally recorded that was a violation of the 4th Amendment? So does that mean he’s “so morally bankrupt it’s pathetic”. If I follow your logic, he should be impeached too. Is that right? Also, is NYT equally culpable?”
I’ll gladly trade you McDermott for Bush. Deal?
72
Oh, I almost forgot — we don’t make deals with you anymore MTR, because you’re a welsher. Disregard #72. Better yet, go fuck your armadillo — he’s horny and needs servicing.
MtR-
WTF are YOU talking about…
Besides being an uncomprehending, incomprehesible misogynistic asshole, that is.
Vagina?
MtR-
You’re such a typical anachonistic, patriachal, oligarchic, chauvinist pig.
Good thing y’alls kind are dying out.
Rabbit 71 – Read the whole thread. Ask GBS how he’s doing after the rake hit him in the face. Doh!
GBS, I applaud your face-raking of MTR. I would applaud louder, but we all know how easily MTR steps on rakes.
MTR Dick @ 77
Rack in the face? What a dolt you are!
Why don’t ya respond to my question at 54 regarding your, oh so carefully laid trap at 50?
Dick!
Donnageddon:
Have you seen Puddybud posting lately?
I still want him to pay up on his bet.
GBS, I haven’t seen the little guy in a couple of weeks. Maybe he is counting your winnings from his piggy bank?
Donnageddon:
How about PacMan? Has he posted lately?
Nothing from PacMan either.
Hmmmmm . . . one in the same person, perhaps?
Mark The Redneck Dick:
When are you going to impress us with your oh so vast knowledge of how McDermott violated the 4th amendment against Newt-er?
@ 84 Always been my suspicion. If it is true, he/she is completely psychotic.
Hey DANNO Dick, why don’t ya’ll answer for Mark The Redneck Dick on the McDermott issue at 54?
Hmmmmmm. . .go on, take a shot at it, Dick!
The official press release from the wire:
Cantwell Leads Senate in Stopping Arctic Drilling
Calls for Immediate Passage of Funding Bill for Troops
WASHINGTON, DC – U.S. Senator Maria Cantwell (D-WA) issued the following statement on the successful blocking of drilling in the Arctic from the defense spending bill. Cantwell led the fight on the Senate floor to keep the Senate playing by the rules and putting the people’s interests before the special interests.
“This was a great bipartisan victory for all members who worked to play by the rules and a great bipartisan victory for our troops,” said Cantwell, a member of the Senate’s Commerce and Energy Committees. “I’m glad we stood up to say that this trickery. It’s time to fund and support the troops now without anymore tricks. Now that we’ve successfully removed these provisions from this legislation, we can get down to business and deliver to our men and women in uniform around the world the resources they need to do their jobs and keep America safe. We successfully stopped drilling in the Arctic for now, but we will remain vigilant next year to make sure that the country focuses its energy on real solutions to our over dependence on foreign oil and not Christmas packages for the oil companies.”
Cantwell, who also serves as the chair of Energy Independence 2020, had threatened earlier in the week to use all procedural means to remove the Arctic Refuge drilling provision and had been working to convince her colleagues to stand with her on this issue. Cantwell has been a leader in the fight to prevent drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.
More proof that Bush is attempting to create a police state.
“Court rejects request to transfer Padilla custody”
In a sharp rebuke, a federal appeals court denied Wednesday a Bush administration request to transfer terrorism suspect Jose Padthe government may be attempting to avoid high court review of the controversial case.
The decision, written by Judge Michael Luttig, questioned why the administration used one set of facts before the court for 3½ years to justify holding Padilla without charges but used another set to convince a grand jury in Florida to indict him last month. . . the government may be attempting to avoid high court review of the controversial case.
Padilla may be guilty as sin, but he is an American citizen who is not having his Constitutional rights applied to him. Where’s the due process? Habeas corpus? I think not.
In Brown v. Vasquez, 952 F.2d 1164, 1166 (9th Cir. 1991), cert. denied, 112 S.Ct. 1778 (1992), the court observed that the Supreme Court has “recognized the fact that`[t]he writ of habeas corpus is the fundamental instrument for safeguarding individual freedom against arbitrary and lawless state action.’
Whenever you see the words “government may be attempting to avoid high court review “…
You know we are in a world of shit.
@ 89
You may very well be betting your civil liberties on that statement.
Yeah, the whole bypassing FISA review for wiretapping US citizens was to avoid ANY oversight at all of the actions of the fascist Bush Administration.
Let the Impeachment Begin!
You know, maybe, just maybe, this time next year, the newly elected Democrats that will be the new majority waiting to be sworn in to congress just might be using the “I” word.
Then in 2007 we can swear in President Pelosi.
@92
Then in 2007 we can swear in President Pelosi.
I was going to comment, but I have to clean the puke off my keyboard…
@ 93
If I were in your shoes, I’d be sick to my stomach, too. Conservatives are so disgusting, aren’t they?
Yeah, especially those guys like BJ who tape private phone conversations. They are “morally repugnant” and are “chilling” and leading us to a “police state”.
Hey Donna – What are you talking about at 91? What’s wrong with wiretapping?
Watch for the rake….
C’mon MTR Dick, answer the friggin’ question already at 54.
Whatsamatta can’t do it girlie-boy?
@ 96
Nothing is wrong with wire taps when they are done legally and with court oversight when it involves American citizens.
You f-a-g.
@ 96, Redneck Dick, wiretaps without a court warrent is illegal. I have no problem with legal wiretaps.
You should stop leaving those rakes around like that Dick, you have a nasty habit of stepping on them.
Left Turn @1
Blow after crushing blow to the liars, crooks, cooks and cheats on the republican side of the aisle who want to ruin America!
What about all the liars, crooks, cooks and cheats on the democrat side of the aisle?
Winston @ 3
Fuck the Republican bastards.
Sure, but it is hard to tell the difference between an R or D “bastard,” so fuck ‘em all.
Windie @45
loser misogynistic trolls with mythical degrees who back out of bets aren’t exactly in a position to talk to anyone about ‘talking to your betters’.
I agree with most of that.
Windie @52
But do you understand that an individual can’t violate the 4th amendment the way say… the NSA or FBI can? It may or may not be illegal, depending, but its not a civil rights violation.
You are correct. McDermott violated the law, but not the 4th amendment. Did Clinton violate the 4th amendment with the Aldrich Ames case?
Robert @57
I love it when the morally and ethically superior (you may barf now) Republicans have to stoop to the “But the Democrats did it too!” defense. It is laugable.
It is a matter of precedent. I barfed @93 due to @92…you just barfed sooner. Similarly, Carter and Clinton barfed sooner than Bush.
@84
Hmmmmm . . . one in the same person, perhaps?
I doubt it, but I cannot be absolutely certain. Perhaps when they next get into town I can rope both of them into showing up for lunch.
GBS @94
Conservatives are so disgusting, aren’t they?
I actually find the Pelosi Liberals just as repugnant.
GBS @99
Nothing is wrong with wire taps when they are done legally and with court oversight when it involves American citizens.
Actually, I am fairly certain that calls going to or coming from numbers of known or suspected international terrorists can be applied without the oversight of courts. I just wonder if my wife’s calls to her niece in Lebanon are monitored. Of course, it would be a complete waste of government resources to monitor any of those calls…
marks
Nope, they still need a FISA court warrent if one of the callers is a US citizen. That is why Bush is going to be impeached.
They can of course obtain a FISA court warrant after the fact (within reason) but Bush bypassed all court oversight, and is now prison bound.
marks @ 101
@ 99 comments:
You may be right about “known” or “suspected” numbers, but it seems to me, at that point, there has been some sort of oversight quite possibly involving FISA. Or, at the very least should have been.
But, what I’m more concerned with is your wife’s privacy. I’ll assume she’s A) An American citizen or has some protection B) She’s no terrorist, C) Her neice isn’t a terrorist, and D) They don’t discuss harming US interests or it’s citizens.
If those hold ture, then what business is it of the governments to intrude into your wife’s private conversations? NONE!
And that’s the point of law under the 4th Amendment.
“Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!
Patrick Henry ~ March 23, 1775
Don’t let these republicans erode your liberties, particularly if you believe in the ideals of those who founded our great nation.
GBS-
Sorry to keep you waiting, but I was too busy doing useful and purposeful work to stick around here arguing with pre-schoolers such as yourself.
Donna-
You are an idiot. Just because some asshat moonbat says it, doesn’t make it true. Warrentless surveillance to gather foreigmn itel is legal.
GBS @104
If those hold ture, then what business is it of the governments to intrude into your wife’s private conversations? NONE!
What? I do not understand how you can be so repulsed. I understand Donna @103, though reason indicates that the Bush folks believe they have the authority to run NSA as the name implies.
Bottom line is this: the NSA is the agency that is most concerned with keeping terrorists at bay. Unlike J. Edgar Hoover, they are not establishing a political enemies list (of course, you may think otherwise), they are hunting threats to our security. If my wife’s conversations happen to become a comedic routine for the analysts, fine. Fire the analysts. They are government workers, who hold political views similar to mine (that is, give me a paycheck, and I will do my job as charged without blabbing the shit all over the place).
GBS @104
If those hold ture, then what business is it of the governments to intrude into your wife’s private conversations? NONE!
What? I do not understand how you can be so repulsed. I understand Donna @103, though reason indicates that the Bush folks believe they have the authority to run NSA as the name implies.
@ 105
What ever DICK! The point is you did’t because you can’t.
Which makes you an unqualifed Dick.
You were called out on the carpet and you wet yourself by ignoring the question. We all know why, too. Yourself included. You would be proven a fraud and a liar.
Thanks for playing. Buh-bye for you now. Dick!
And GBS,
Bottom line is this: the NSA is the agency that is most concerned with keeping terrorists at bay. Unlike J. Edgar Hoover, they are not establishing a political enemies list (of course, you may think otherwise), they are hunting threats to our security.
@ 106
The erosion of your/our civil liberties is what repulses me. Just because your wife is calling the middle east gives the government no reason to listen in on her coversations, if that is the only circumstance.
Hope that clears it up.
@ 108
Security at the expense of our liberties will give you neither.
BTW – GBS,
If my wife’s conversations happen to become comedic routines for the analysts, I would not be surprised. However, the analysts are government workers, and like myself they probably appreciate the paycheck and do the work asked of them short of compromising their own principles. This distrust by you seems a bit manufactured.
Danno, MTR’s boy toy! Good to see you! Did you read when I destroyed your pathetic lie @ 64!
That was snot a moonbat I qouted! I used your own quote to show how stupid and wingnutted you truly are!
Mery Christmas! and Make MTR buy you a nice dress!
@ 108 cont.
I never said anyTHING about a political hit list. I have always maintained the right to privacy as guaranteed to us by the 4th amendment.
Geeez, and right-wing, nut jobs get all freaked out about the 2nd amendment when society wants to legislate that only legal citizens are purchasing guns.
Get a grip.
Danno sure looks good in that dress. Is Mark the Redneck Dick taking you dancing later?
@ 111
I’m sure your wife has an excellent sense of humor and would provide hours of comedic relief for bored NSA workers, but the point is this:
Why should the government be listening in the first place?
@ 114 cont.
That is not manufactured, that is FACT, as admitted to by Bush.
Yeah, Bush lied in 2002 by stating that no wiretaps on US citizens were being performed without a court warrant.
Then when he got caught, he admitted the truth, and made himself to be not only a verifiable liar, but a uncommon criminal.
I always like New Hampshire’s state slogan
Live Free or Die
The republican Trolls now have to make a sticky choice.
marks “‘the NSA is the agency that is most concerned with keeping terrorists at bay.”
And the FISA court is ready and willing to rubberstamp any warrants they need.
But first the NSA has to actually tell the FISA court who, when and why they are wiretapping someone. It just happens to be the law.
MTR @ 97, I kept an eye out for that rake, but unfortunately it was planted right smack dab on your forehead again.
Ouch! That has got to hurt!
GBS @114 & 115
Ah-ha! My bad! I did not realize I was unable to make my point:
I did not mean to say the facts are manufactured, just your distrust of government monitoring.
Why should the government be listening? Simply because they have to for the sake of us, the citizenry. We can delve into ways of providing oversight (I happen to agree with Donna @103 to some degree), but to simply say that what Bush has done is illegal places quite a burden on your quote:
“Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!
Patrick Henry ~ March 23, 1775
Umm, “chains and slavery” is a bit of hyperbole, eh? If you do not think so, perhaps I should? Convince me, without your Bush-hate, however deserving.
Wiretap Mystery: Spooks React
“A few current and former signals intelligence guys have been checking in since this NSA domestic spying story broke. Their reactions range between midly creeped out and completely pissed off…
“‘It’s drilled into you from minute one that you should not ever, ever, ever, under any fucking circumstances turn this massive apparatus on an American citizen,’ one source says. ‘You do a lot of weird shit. But at least you don’t fuck with your own people.'”
Et cetera, so forth, and so on…
Dr. E
Another, who’s generally very pro-Administration, emphasized that the operation at least started with people that had Al-Qaeda connections — with some mass-spying master list.
And there is plenty more for both of us, but you must realize you selectively quoted :)
Either way, I think we are in for some education over the next few days. Enjoy!
@92
LMFAO!
marks ““chains and slavery†is a bit of hyperbole”
It is wet and slippery here in eastern KingCo, and I see a slope ahead if we do not put the brakes on NOW.
Better Blue Than Red @124
It is wet and slippery here in eastern KingCo, and I see a slope ahead if we do not put the brakes on NOW.
I think you gotta do better than that. If you need interim help, see snowshoes.
In doing what she did, she ultimately hurt Washington State. Remember Senator Murray is a minority member of the appropriations committee and from time to time needs his support to pass appropriations that are beneficial to Washington State.
so jaybo: You’re saying protecting Pork is more important than having values?
“leastways you’re consistant.
Windie,
Why do you think that Senator Murray is there?
After listening to the response fron Sen. Stevens, I don’t think that Sen. Murray was in a good mood.
I actually watched the action on the floor and it was interesting to see the negative response that the dems were getting from their colleague from Louisiana.
@ 123
History has proven time and time again that when government operates unchecked and with too much power it is the average citizen who suffers. What you feel is a mistrust on my part is actually my vigilance against erosion of OUR constitutional rights.
Our Founding Fathers set up our system of government based on “distrust,” if you will, by establishing the checks and balances system. No one branch of government can trump all others. Thus, preventing the loss of liberty and or a dictatorship from forming.
My “distrust” of government is not manufactured, it is based on the fact the George W. Bush admitted he is wiretapping US citizens without court oversight. Namely FISA, since this matter is in regards to foreign intelligence.
The FISA court is a secret court that operates within the buildings of the Dept. of Justice. The justices are appointed by the Chief Justice of the US. Since it’s inception in 1978 FISA have approved over 15,000 requests for wiretapping and rejected only FOUR. Furthermore, the NSA can actually begin the wiretapping without first obtaining the warrant for 72 hours and then have a warrant issued retroactively.
Seeing how liberally the FISA court approves surveillance, and the fact that warrants can be issued retroactively, the questions then become: Who has George Bush authorized spying on? What is George Bush hiding? Why is he operating outside the Constitution?
No War Powers Act, Patriot Act or any other powers granted to a war time president suspends the Constitution. In particular, our civil liberties and the Bill of Rights.
Do you know what makes the Bill of Rights unique in the world?
And by that I mean to ask, can you specifically explain the uniqueness of the Bill of Rights as compared to any other law in this country or any other country?
Oh thats good. Keep whining about high gas prices. Apparently Maria Cuntsmell’s feminine odor overwhelmed this to its end. Have fun in an uninhabitable, useless tundra. Morons.
@ 123 continued.
Umm, “chains and slavery” is a bit of hyperbole, eh?
Do I really have to explain the analogy in this quote by Patrick Henry? You do get that it’s not literal bondage to be sold into slavery, right? You get the meaning that, like a slave who has no freedom, the loss of our rights and liberties restricts our freedoms. Make sense?
This is what I have found to be the most difficult in having an intellectual debate with a conservative; you have to explain the nuances of thought and meaning. Conservatives are typically not philosophical thinkers and thus often experience difficulty in transitioning to a higher plane of honest debate.
Hyperbole? Not so much.
Hey Mark1 @ 133
You and MTR should get together in your war on vaginas!