Boeing’s threat to take their ball and go somewhere else, while hardly surprising, is incredibly short sighted.
On Thursday, Boeing made good on its threats and began looking elsewhere to develop its popular new 777X airplane. A spokesman for Utah Gov. Gary Herbert said Boeing officials called him to begin talks that could bring the work — and thousands of jobs — to that state.
Boeing Co. spokesman Doug Alder declined to specify where the company is now looking, saying there is no short list and that there are many places both within Boeing’s current operations and outside that are being explored.
“Everything is back on the table,” he said.
I’m sorry Boeing doesn’t know this, but the best place to build planes anywhere in the world is the Puget Sound. The fact that Boeing has build that up for over a century means something. It means that the people who are going to make the best quality airplanes are living here. It means they have experience and know how, and the people with a passion for it have moved here. It means that they will help get the job done.
By threatening to go other places, they’re saying they’re willing to put out an inferior product. They’re signaling that when your safety and security is on the line, they’re at least considering going on the cheap. They’re saying that they know they can do better, but fuck it. That doesn’t sound like a long term strategy. You get what you pay for, and they’re clearly establishing that they don’t want to pay for quality when you’re in a tube in the air.
Also, there’s the fact that so much of their business model is to get free money from taxpayers. And I think it’s fair to say that taxpayers are more willing to pay for good jobs than the ones Boeing thinks it should give its employees. Between the largest bit of corporate welfare in US history that the Washington State Legislature just offered them and all the military contracting, Boeing lives off government largess. And it’s tough to imagine Patty Murray going to the mattresses on the tanker deal or the legislature caving so quickly to all of their demands if the jobs were not good ones.
Wherever they go, the union will follow them. Do Boeing execs really believe that workers in S. Carolina or Alabama — who know Seattle’s unionized Boeing workers make up to $85,000 a year — will be satisfied with $10 an hour just because they live in “right to work (for low wages)” states?
Joining a union should be voluntary. You should be allowed to work for $7.15/hr. if you want to. Only union members should make union wages.
Boeing’s hatred of unions clearly overrides everything else, as previously shown by the Dreamliner fiasco. Outsourcing underspecified parts to companies with no track record in aviation made no sense other than as an attempt to eliminate as much union labor as possible. It’s not even a cost issue, it’s a power issue. Setting up a whole new assembly line from scratch carries enormous risk. Several possible alternative sites have built in costs in that they lack adequate port facilities to transport materials and product. But keep in mind, the guys running Boeing now have backgrounds with McDonnell Douglas. Nothing is too stupid or self destructive to be ruled out.
The Charleston plant was supposed to be cranked up to 3 planes per month by the end of this year. They can barely get 1 and a half. Latest estimates are that the 3 plane per month goal won’t be reached until 2015. Boeing is projecting 10 Dreamliners per month, so the lazy union guys in Everett have to produce 8.5 jets, while the modern streamlined non-union workforce in SC rips out an amazing 1.5. And don’t forget those lazy union guys down in Renton, turning out a piddly 40 737s per month.
Meanwhile, they’re bringing in workers from Everett to fill in the lack of skilled workers and these guys proudly wear their IAM shirts on the floor. The union is already talking about taking a vote in the next year or two.
http://www.fitsnews.com/2013/1.....charleston
And now a state senator is calling on Inslee to have a special session to make Washington a right to work state. Because why? Washington is ranked one of the top 5 business friendly states. If you can’t run a business in a booming state where workers enjoy regular minimum wage adjustments and union employment, you’re just not a very good businessman.
http://www.spokesman.com/blogs.....ng-happen/
It don’t matter what we think about where Boeing now produces its new plane. It only matters what the union members thought (or rather didn’t think, which seems far more the case).
Anyway, I seriously doubt workers in other parts of the US are inferior to the dolts in the machinists union here. That’s just wound-licking equine excrement, and you know it. Sorry to see the jobs leave Washington, but I’d far rather they go to other Americans than overseas.
Meanwhile, Boeing workers here did it to themselves. And when they start looking around for somebody to blame, they need look no further than their own mirrors.
@6 Purrlie,
Nothing personal, but go FK yourself on a plane made in China, you horsesass.
Really HA DUMMOCRETINS…? Apparently y’all read the same worthless DUMMOCRETIN spewing talking points and share the same useless commentary between yourselves!
Puddy recently flew somewhere in America with one of Boeing’s auditor managers, in first class of course. We discussed what is happening to Boeing in the Boeing-Airbus price war with plane prices…
And this just in on the price war…
This person mentioned Boeing has been evaluating how to better compete on price in all facets. So if the union wants to put a corncob up their butts sideways… so be it for the union. Boeing is a business and as your SENILE LUNATIC AND VERY DUMBASS Wabbit once said in so many words… businesses are in the business to make money.
You can Google search that schmucko-moron!
Really HA DUMMOCRETINS…? Really? You don’t think there are dedicated American men and women in other states who would work just as hard and be committed to make a great Boeing product? You all really think they have to belong in WA State in the IAM otherwise they suck?
Isn’t that the same mindset the auto unions said when Japanese and European car companies came to America to make their products in non-union shops. Hmmm… seems quality is still job one per Cars.com
1. Toyota Camry; Georgetown, Ky.; Lafayette, Ind.
2. Honda Accord: Marysville, Ohio; Lincoln, Ala.
Typical DUMMOCRETIN mind set! Why are DUMMOCRETINS so dense when facts demonstrate otherwise?
@9
Uhh….1.5 planes per month, South Carolina. (3 per month is the target)
8.5 Planes per month, Washington.
Let’s say Boeing builds a second 787 line in another state and closes down the Everett line. By the time it’s up and running the two plants will be producing 4.5 planes per month and hoping to get it up to 6 in a few years. Those two lines won’t be as productive as Everett at great capital expenditure. I wouldn’t expect a button pusher with frequent flier miles to understand economics, but your ignorance is on full display.
Yep, those hard working guys down in South Carolina may be dedicated hard working Americans but they don’t have the culture and experience.
Maybe if that plant stays open for 97 years they’ll be up to speed.
@8 Henry Ford was smart enough to realize workers who make good money are consumers. Why aren’t you smart?
@8 “businesses are in the business to make money.”
Correct. It isn’t their job to look out for workers. That’s why we need strong unions.
@8 “businesses are in the business to make money.”
Correct. It isn’t their job to look out for workers. That’s why we need strong unions.
@9 “Japanese and European car companies came to America to make their products in non-union shops. Hmmm… seems quality is still job one per Cars.com
1. Toyota Camry; Georgetown, Ky.; Lafayette, Ind.
2. Honda Accord: Marysville, Ohio; Lincoln, Ala.”
Great example! Glad you picked it. Toyota is losing their quality reputation. You get what you pay for.
Apparently your union buds don’t either since you missed Delta, JAL and VivaAerobus placing orders with Airbus DUE TO PRICE!
Now what causes prices to rise checkmate? It’s you who just claimed to be an economics genius! Let’s see:
Raw Materials
UNION COSTS
Marketing
Brick and Mortar Buildings
Oh did Puddy say UNION COSTS?
See you lata feckless one!
Still numba one SENILE DUMBASS LUNATIC MORONIC Wabbit! Honda still numba two!
Wow look where GM is…
SMACK DOWN!
Still numba one SENILE DUMBASS LUNATIC MORONIC Wabbit! Honda still numba two! Union shops?
Speaking of quality reputation…
SMACK DOWN!
Puddy’s comparison between the automobile union and the IAM is spot on. Good products can be built anywhere with trained people!
SMACK DOWN!
Puddy’s comparison between the automobile union and the IAM is spot on. Good products can be built anywhere with trained people!
Oh Piddles…where did you learn about economics?
Boeing is DELIVERING more planes than Airbus and is still the #1 Manufacturer. And so it would make total economic sense for Boeing to reduce the number of deliveries it is capable.
Great. You saved 300k per plane in manufacturing costs but you can only produce 50% products. You’d get laughed out of a MBA program with that kind of idea.
Keep digging. There’s a reason why you have to fly all over at your boss’ bidding while smart people run companies.
@3 Today’s Boeing is really McDonnell-Douglas, or more properly McDonnell–Donald Douglas would doubtless be appalled at all of this. The current management seems to be all about screwing the help–although not necessarily in the manner of Harry Stonecifer.
Also, like a lot of “modern” corporations and big-league sports, they’re onto the idea that instead of making product, they can make their bottom line look really great (for a while) by extorting massive handouts from the communities in which they do business.
Price? Yea sure. Here is a list of prices for equivalent aircraft from Boeing and Airbus as reported by the Witchita Business Journal, taken directly from the respective manufacturers. A little hard to line up, but essentially every Airbus model costs more than an equivalent Boeing model except one (the 737 MAX8), average difference is roughly 15% more.
http://www.bizjournals.com/wic.....s-now.html
Boeing | Airbus
Model Seating Price | Model Seating Price
737-700 126 $76M | A319 124 $83.6M
737-800 162 $90.5M | A320 150 $91.5M
737-900ER 180 $96.1M | A321 185 $107.3M
737 MAX7 126 $85.1M | A319neo 124 $92M
737 MAX8 162 $103.7M | A320neo 150 $100.2M
737 MAX9 180 $109.9M | A321neo 185 $117.4M
767-300ER 269 $185.8M | A330-220 253 $216.1M
787-8 210-250 $211.8M | A350-800 250 $254.3M
787-9 250-290 $249.5M | A350-900 300 $287.7M
787-10 300-330 $288.7M | A350-1000 350 $332.1M
747-8 467 $356.9M | A380-800 525 $403M
And Delta? They bought 40 older model, less fuel efficient planes from Airbus. Delta believes they can weather the storm of higher fuel costs, they now own an oil refinery, which is about as smart as buying a ’50s gas guzzler because your dad owns a gas station.
@ 22
Boeing isn’t seeking lower labor costs to reduce the prices of their aircraft, they want to lower labor costs to put more money in the CEOs pockets.
Tax free of course, as usual.
If Boeing’s management is really moving to another location for a few lousy dollars it will go down the shoot. It recalls the 787 fiasco all over again. Airbus will be presented with an opportunity that it will exploit to the utmost.
Good old checkmate… looking at the here and now vs. the long term future… Did you read the motley fool article checkmate… If you did you wouldn’t have written this…
“DELIVERING more planes than Airbus” RIGHT NOW checkmate! The Future checkmate… It’s not about the here and now… That’s exactly what the Motley Fool wrote… And you are ridiculing Puddy on economics and flying around the world?
Tooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Dammmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmn
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuunnnnnnnnnnnny
Like expected, Piddles came back to dig the hole deeper.
Why did I bring up delveries? Orders not a great measure of success. Orders get cancelled all the time as the airline industry shakes out. Eitehad airlines for example cancelled 13 Airbus orders in 2012. Nah, no chance the American/U.S. Air merger will effect the 200+ planes American ordered from airbus.
Delivery = payment in full.
Boeing is kicking Airbus’ ass in deliveries and is far more profitable as a result. In Airbus’ wildest dreams of productivity they can’t turn out as many planes.
Get back to me after Dubai where Emerites airlines is expected to place another huge order with Boeing.
Fell right into the PuddyTrap… Cancellations? Oh checkmate… How many Boeing orders were CANCELED? China Eastern and Quantas canceled big 787 orders checkmate. &47 orders were canceled.
From WikiPedia all can see the orders vs. deliveries.
See ya!
MikeBoyScout is apparently a stranger to the English language and can’t read sentences written in that language. Must be a Boeing machinist union member.
Whats with all these hit-and-run alts? One use and throw away and it’s always just threadshitting.
Lame.
Oh Piddles…trap…sprung
China Eastern cancelled their order or 24 Long-haul 787s but replaced the order with 45 medium range 737s. If we’re going by planes ordered, that’s a gain of 21. Sorry you didn’t notice that before you spouted off. It’s a classic example of an airline changing their order as they realize they don’t have the demand for long-haul routes to justify a long haul fleet.
Qantas on the other hand posted very large losses for the year and is in negotiations to order 777s instead of the more costly 787. Qantas kept the order for it’s 787 for the new long-haul Jetstar brand and announced an order for small regional Boeing jets as Qantas focuses on domestic routes to try to regain profitability. The cancellation of the 787 order off their books turned a $200m loss into a $5m profit for the year. Note that they didn’t order a bunch of Airbus planes. They reorganized as a financial decision.
Stick to things you understand….oh, wait. You’ve got a lot of time forced to be on planes. The airport sells magazines from which you might learn about an industry.
If Boeing pulls out of the Puget Sound it will leave behind its high tech work force and manufacturing base.
Airbus for one just might move to take advantage of being able to hire Boeing’s ex employees who would be feeling no loyalty to their old company. I’d look to China and India to also be interested.
I’m reminded of years ago when IBM was the one and only computer company in India. They bled India for years. India finally stood up to them and IBM pulled out, thinking it would teach them.
As it turned out after just a few years they managed to recover what they lost using their own home grown technology and haven’t looked back. And IBM lost a major market.
And at what “price” checkmate? That’s exactly what the auditor was talking about! It’s not planes “ordered” it’s the $$$$ brought in per plane.
Where did Puddy bring that up checkmate? And you skipped right over the WikiPedia link… on purpose of course!
checkmated again!
And the other Airbus cancelations weren’t due to the economy. Man you make one sided insipid specious arguments!
So keep making like schmucko-moron! He’s an expert in everything! NOT!
See ya!
Here’s where Piddles digs in his trench and pretends he got a win.
Boeing used to stand for excellence, but ever since they sold their souls to St. Louis I’ve seen a concerted effort to become the Yugo of aerospace.
Why the rush to be WalMart? Yes, the profits are there and maybe they will become a 100 billion dollar company, but at what cost? The helm of the company seems only intent on receiving a bonus, the management has to follow the helm and the workers hopefully will be invested in quality. Whether here or SC, we can hope that the people actually doing the assembly and fabrication are focused and competent; because lives depend on them being so.
Hopefully, Boeing starts to understand that you get what you pay for.