The Dow Jones Industrial Average closed down 504.48 points today, at 10917.51. That’s only 329.92 points higher than where it stood on January 20, 2001, the day George W. Bush took office.
To put that in perspective, had you invested $100 in a DJIA index fund just before Bush took office, it would be worth about $83 today in inflation adjusted dollars.
But, you know, John McCain says “the fundamentals of our economy are strong,” so there’s nothing to worry about.
Who knew that Fred Thompson could be so prescient, speaking at the Republican convention, when he said that people are acting like it’s the Great Depression in the U.S.
Wait for it, Fred.
I understand from people in the mortgage industry that the mortgage crisis is only at the tip of the iceberg and there’s lots more to come.
What is it going to take to wake up this country?
For those who want to make a buck on the market, read and pass thsi on.
The collapse of the financial markets is the result of one thing and one thing only, American job losses. You can listen to politicians and the media spin this all you want but the collapse of our markets began the minute the Presidential candidates in 2004 mentioned the losing of jobs that they said Americans would not do. They used this catch phrase as the green-light for companies to job American workers and outsource their jobs. Today two of the nation’s largest and well-known financial firms – Lehman Brothers and Merrill Lynch – closed shop- no more. Lehman has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection and speculation is that they are expected to be liquidated. Merrill Lynch is being bought by Bank of America. One of the reasons is that these companies service Americans who could no longer pay their mortgages because their companies have outsourced and jobsourced their manufacturing jobs overseas. If you think this is the end then you are an idiot because it is not and the reason is that idiotic economic professors taught that outsourcing and globalization were good, not because they believed this but because outsourcing and globalization were the new fad and these professors did not want to be the typewriter repairmen of the new decade, these professors were protecting their own asses. Add the scared to death idiotic professors to the uneducated statements about jobs Americans won’t do and you have the equation for disaster. The credit markets and the housing industry are just the results of job losses and they are not the root of the problem, they are merely the symptoms. If we do not level the playing field with China and India immediately and slow the trade deficit then it will only get worse and will never get better. Investors have been urged not to panic and to stay the course but for what reason? If things stay as they are then it will only get worse until we all live like poor peasants in China and penny a day farmers in India. Individual bank accounts are insured for up to $100,000 each and stocks purchased through Lehman or Merrill Lynch are secured as well, but you must remember that the insured amounts may vary. The real shame in all this is that Lehman workers have already have already lost their jobs and many more are likely to so its not just the manufacturing jobs but the support jobs as well and this is why the manufacturing jobs are so important, they provide the base for all other jobs. You must also remember that financial companies are tied to insurance companies and the insurance companies are the next dominoes up to fall. There is already vast speculation on Wall Street that AIG may also falter. This is well past $600 checks, the government needs to slow down the trade deficit and encourage domestic job growth and production or this will all only get worse. All Americans need to realize that it’s not just manufacturing jobs anymore it’s all jobs. A lot of people are going to be losing their jobs on Wall Street alongside their manufacturing brothers in areas like Flint Michigan and Detroit Michigan. It’s time we not only have change but we have action.
The fundamentals ARE strong … and in times of superficial instability, we expect our leaders to remind us that they are strong.
Got a train wreck on our hands? Here’s how a leader responds:
If, on the other hand, our fundamentals are NOT strong, Obama’s domestic policy scheme is invalid.
I just bought Rog Rabbit’s “lovechile stock” NOV today @ $49.81.
Let’s see what happens the rest of this week.
vw–
So O-blah-blah wants to double the LT Capital Gains Tax and increase taxes on big corporations and “rich people’.
How is that going to create more jobs??
O-blah-blah really wants more government jobs so folks are beholding to him and his Marxist cause.
The economy never goes straight up. Not stocks, gold, housing NOTHING.
People tend to panic and look for scapegoats rather than OPPORTUNITIES.
I want leaders who will create PRIVATE SECTOR opportunities by lowering taxes and strangling regulations.
And precisely what has the DEMOCRAT CONTROLLED CONGRESS proposed to address the dilemma you perceived. Congress makes the laws….WHAT HAVE THEY DONE vw????????????
Try NOTHING!
What Legislation has O-blah-blah proposed to help?
Try NOTHING!!!
So O-blah-blah
It’s Obama. Please.
wants to double the LT Capital Gains Tax
Is that 30 percent? What’s wrong with that? It should be the same or a little more than taxes on wages. That’s fair.
and increase taxes on big corporations
They got quite a few breaks from Bush as I recall. It’s gotta end sometime. We’ve got bills to pay.
and “rich people’.
Going back to the Clinton Era tax rates. The rich got richer even then as I recall.
How is that going to create more jobs??
It’s not sustainable to keep borrowing from China to finance endless wars and tax breaks and other largesse for Republican donors.
Tax reform is to right the fiscally unsound ship of state.
Tax cuts for the middle class and small business owners will do more to create jobs.
YLB–
What Legislation has the DEMOCRAT CONTROLLED CONGRESS proposed to help the economy??
Try NOTHING!
YLB, the CONGRESS proposes laws…yet I see zero coming out of the DEMOCRATIC CONTROLLED Congress.
Seems like the Dems must want the economy to tank. The Congress passes Legislation. The Democrats have had the past couple years…and failed miserably.
So yelling loser boy, economists agree Obama is proposing 100 Billion in new taxes to cover 1 Trillion in spending.
How does that add up?
“I don’t think it all adds up,” Isabel Sawhill, an official in President Clinton’s Office of Management and Budget, said of Obama’s spending plans.
yelling loser boy did you know Obama pledged $500 million a year religious and community groups for low-income children summer education programs.
Oh no, the dreaded faith-based initiatives?
Say it ain’t sooooooooooooooo?
You see HAs clueless irrational idiot, you don’t read for yourself you depend on the kool-aid sites to spout off your “facts”.
6 – Blue dogs in the House and a filibuster happy minority in the Senate have blocked most progress.
Then there’s the gauntlet of the incompetent in the Oval office.
An Obama in the Oval Office will shake up things a lot.
yelling loser boy and HA leftist friends:
Can you read? navigate to the Tax Policy Center. They are non-partisan, not drinkers of the yelling loser boy kool-aid. These peeps examined Obama’s “eliminate the tax loophole” plans and the TPC reported they could not confirm Obama’s projected savings.
Bush is expected to “talk up” the economy. I don’t blame him for that. If he did otherwise, it could become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
But McCain isn’t required to do that, he’s a candidate, not a President. And the fundamentals ARE NOT strong. The Republicans have been ignoring this for years.
Our manufacturing base is virtually non-existant, when compared with how it was in each of the previous decades. We don’t have the tooling, equipment, facilities, infrastructure, or trained people to manufacture goods. The longer this continues, the worse it will get, as our foreign sellers invest in upgraded manufacturing tooling and facilities, and as our foreign sellers learn updated manufacturing techniques and new technology. In another five eight years, we will be a full generation behind them in every field except aerospace. We have been pushed out of the steel, textile, steel fabrication, plastics, electronics (generally), and computer manufacturing sectors. There aren’t many other industries left to surrender.
Our nation used to be a “creditor nation”, lending to others. Now it is a “debtor nation”, beholding to foreign debt-holders.
The average consumer, upon whom much of our domestic economy depends, has seen their earning power decrease as raises have not kept pace with inflation. Their corresponding debt has also increased, so they have little room to manuever when things go bad.
The financial/loan industry has gone belly-up, as the lack of reasonable oversight and regulation during the Bush years has led to a financial collapse of epic proportions, taking down with it the storied Wall Street names of Lehman Bros. and Merrill Lynch.
The collapse of the mortgage markets have left a very large percentage of homeonwers “under water”, owing more on their houses than the houses are worth. This has left them very vulnerable to any shift in their circumstances, such as an increase in their adjustable-rate mortgage, a balloon payment coming due, a death in the family, a job loss, or a job change requiring relocation. The more such incidences result in foreclosure, the more negative the downward pressure on the housing market, creating a domino effect as more and more homeowners find themselves “under water”.
As I mentioned last week, the airline industry in this company is in very bad shape. Just when they were beginning to show a renewed life, the spike in oil prices acted like a stake to the heart. Even those that survive the coming months face a serious long-term problem: they havne’t been able to afford purchases of wide-body aircraft in over a decade, although their competitors on international routes have been purchasing continuously. This means that U.S. carries will be trying to compete with foreign carries using outdated, less fuel-efficient aircraft which will all be due for major maintenance, inspection, and refurbishment soon – which the airlines can’t afford, either. Expect to see U.S. major carriers negotiating to sell their routes and landing slots at international airports (although they will probably call it “route adjustements” or some other inocuous term). Once those routes and landing slots are gone, it is very unlikely that they will ever get them back.
Those are the fundamentals, gentleman. And none of them look very good. The next President will have a lot of work to do, cleaning up after this mess.
As I recall back in 1992, the numbers coming out of Clinton’s OMB for his economic plan were pretty sound. Pretty realistic. Very few to no rosy scenarios.
By the time he left office, the country was in surplus.
I believe this is Obama’s plan as well FOR THE MOST PART.
What did balancing the budget and creating a surplus really do?
It ENABLED the disaster that was George W. Bush.
I think Obama will try not to make that mistake again.
yelling loser boy trumpeting the blue dogs blocking Donkey tax legislation?
Waaaa haaaa haaaa haaaa haaaaa.
As I remember your October/November 2006 rants up to November 10, 2006 when you went from I’m Too Clueless to yelling loser boy, you and your ilk applauded the arrival of blue dog Donkey as a way to get your legislation through. Well I guess they are “too conservative” for your tastes huh yelling loser boy? They don’t taste the same as that Kos morning coffee cream we know as kool-aid!
What has the Democratic Congress done? Well, they worked with the Republicans to offer an incintive payout plan – a band aid, to be sure, but it was at least something. Bush threated to veto anything else.
But generally, all Democratic proposals have been met with Republican filibusters, threatened fillibusters, or Presidential vetos. There’s not more that can be done until January, when a new President takes office. Why should they push for regulatory reform & oversight when Bush has already said he will veto it?
But I suspect Congress will try to vote for a new incentive plan this fall, and the Republicans will go along with it (it’s an election year, after all). Then the Republicans will take credit for any payouts, but blame the Democrats for increasing spending.
Maybe Obama should appropriate a Raygunism or two.
I remember when the old actor criticized the “Carter Depression” which at the time IIRC was a mild recession.
Put on the spot, old Ronnie backtracked and said it was a recession when a neighbor lost his job and a depression when you lost your job.
Well, whatever goes around comes around.
Welcome to the Bush Depression.
and McSame? He’s just more of the same.
By the time he left office, the country was in surplus.
I believe this is Obama’s plan as well FOR THE MOST PART.
—————-
For the most part? Not according to the non-partisan Tax Policy Center. According to their analysis, which they regularly update based on the candidates’ positions:
“Including interest costs, Obama’s tax plan would boost the debt by $3.5 trillion by 2018. McCain’s plan would increase the debt by $5 trillion on top of the $2.3 trillion increase that the Congressional Budget Office forecasts for the next decade (see Summary Deficit Table).”
See http://www.taxpolicycenter.org.....ummary.pdf
Another thing to stink about Lefties: If the Bush tax cuts sunset in 2010 how does Obama get his supposed $100 Billion funding source for something that dies in a year? Remember his budget starts October 2009.
Just doesn’t add up y’all. Something I’ve been continually asking and y’all can’t answer.
Pictures of a McSame rally without the Bridge to Nowhere Sarah:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....26490.html
18 – I think Obama will clean up the mess the Republicans made so that the next Democratic President and Congress after eight years will be free to balance the budget.
Again all creating a surplus did was to enable George Bush to make a big mess.
We’ve had 30 years of fiscal misrule in this country and it won’t be fixed overnight.
@5 cynical
The Reprican fascination with taxes is bullshit. What should matter to people is what they take home, what that will buy, and whether the national pool of capital .. e.g. infrastructure and domestic investment is growing.
-> If my taxes go down BUT food, gas, college, and houseing shoot up, is that a good idea?
-> if my taxes go up but neither I nor my employer is baring the costs of heathcare, is that a good idea?
BTW, the idea that capital trickles down as jobs is also sea gull poo. Capital will go where it can be the most productive of new capital .. today the is likely China!
If you want to prime the American pump, you need to provide more cash flow on in our economy by lowering middle class and below taxes and providing capital gains relief for small businesses. This is exactly Obama’s proposal.
By the way, today’s 504 drop just missed beating the 508 drop in 1987, known now as “Black Monday’. It’s the worst one-day drop since the markets resumed trding after 9/11 in 2001.
Another thing to stink about Lefties: If the Bush tax cuts sunset in 2010 how does Obama get his supposed $100 Billion funding source for something that dies in a year? Remember his budget starts October 2009.
This is one of the issues raised in the analysis above. It doesn’t add up – for either candidate. You can’t ignore the yearly AMT costs – which are growing – and the impact of letting the tax cuts lapse. And, of course, the economy is tanking.
On top of this whomever wins will have a half trillion dollar deficit to start with.
Both candidates are fudging and the winner will have a lot of backtracking to do regarding all those promises.
And today Hewlitt-Packard announced it was eliminating 24,000 jobs.
So Obama wants to put people in government jobs? What, for the love of heaven, is wrong with that?
Bush/McCain like to put people in government jobs, too. The only difference is that they want to see their government employees wearing uniforms and blowing little dark-skinned furrin’ kids’ heads off.
I guess discussing Obama spending plan is a filtered event?
25 Not a big surprise. HP’s been the corporate equivalent of a dead man walking since Carly Fiorina had her way with it.
It appears part of the reason for the late-day drop in the DJIA is the lack of news regarding AIG, which has a huge market share and is believed to be in serious trouble. Until that gets resolved, nobody knows where the floor is. AIG is one of the Dow 100 companies, and is factored in the DJIA.
27 Can’t be worse than the Bush spending “plan” of the last eight years. In case you forgot, that’s involved about a trillion dollars’ worth of death and destruction.
SeattleJew: I already posted regarding the small businesses qualifying for Obamarelief. All the others get hammered with new taxes. How about the single or family entrepreneurs making over $250,000 in gross income. They get hammered.
BTW more on the Obamataxplan is in the filter for some reason.
Dow drops 500 points and the righties attack the Dems. I dunno… sounds like you guys are running a little scared.
Think voters might want to know what McCain would do differently than Bush in terms of managing our economy?
@26
“So Obama wants to put people in government jobs? What, for the love of heaven, is wrong with that?”
Just like lawyers, government workers don’t actually PRODUCE anything. Taken to its extreme, a nation of nothing but government employees wouldn’t have a source of revenue. Moving paper and taxing people is not the basis for an economy.
Great story on the leftist MSM pinheads.
http://www.realclearpolitics.c.....he_fi.html
Of course yelling loser boy will think of something stupid and irrational to say today!
HP bought EDS (which was Ross Perot’s brain-child, which Ross sold to General Moters, which then spun it off again before the recent sale last May to HP). Apparantly most of the layoffs are supposed to come from EDS – and from the number reported, I’m guessing EDS is going to be pretty much liquidated.
I guess my brother-in-law is going to have to be looking for work soon. He works for EDS. It sucks to be out of a job in your early 1950’s, through no fault of your own.
Yes, if only we could deregulate financial institutions everything would be perfect!
33 – What happened to “you guys are so fucked”?
37 It’s not “you guys” or “us guys”….we’re all fucked. In every orifice. With power tools and agricultural implements.
Actually, lawyers DO add value to the economy.
Our economy needs lawyers to protect property rights (patents, copyrights, as well as more tangible assets). They provide the self-policing “refs” who make sure contracts are honored, illegal acts are not performed against persons or businesses.
Even in bankruptcy, they provide the ultimate protection of risk-takers (whether they be individuals, corporations, creditors, etc.) from losing everything. Without lawyers, our society would devolve into a Hobbsean world of physical conflict, a life which would be “…nasty, cruel, brutish, and short”. Our economy would be reduced to a barter economy.
Without lawyers, you have no rule of law. One of the founding blocks of liberty is the rule of law (going back to Magna Carta).
Wow. It’s higher under bush than clinton.
Go figure.
Listening to the liberal media one would expect it to be lower today than when bush took office with bush ruining everything.
Balance the budget?
So paying it off is not even talked about anymore?
Just make the minimum monthly payments and it’s balanced. What a great idea.
Remember the aftermath of Katrina, when the failed FEMA response led to the widespread loss of credibility on the part the Bush administration?
Remember how Limbaugh, Hannity, and other Bush defenders blamed the victims, arguing that they were too stupid to get out of the hurricane’s path, that the Democratic Mayor and Governor were at fault for not earlier ordering the evacuation of the city, or providing adequate relief efforts themselves?
It’s been three years since the anniversary of Katrina, so you would expect a much better response now, both from FEMA and the public.
Well, now that Ike has hit the Republican state of Texas, lets compare. Thousands still ignored mandatory evacuation orders. FEMA and state agencies are still struggling to bring supplies to the hardest-hit areas, and to evacuate people from the hardest-hit areas.
But Limbaugh and Hannity are curiously silent as to the complicity of those Texas citizens in their own situation. Where are the calls for them to be left to their own devices? Why haven’t they been castigated for continuing to live in an area particularly susceptable to hurricanes, like Galviston?
I guess there’s a double standard at play, huh?
Marvin @ 41: Well, you have to balance the budget before you can start paying off the debt.
After twenty years of hard work, we managed to balance the budget (with a little bit of surplus) at the end of the Clinton administration. We could have used that surplus, and the surplus in suceeding years, to pay down the debt. But Republicans never saw a surplus they didn’t want to have in their own pockets, so it went to give a tax cut to the wealthiest Americans. And then some.
Now we have record-breaking deficits.
Given the additional debt service required by the additional borrowing incured by the Bush administration, I doubt we can balance the budget even in eight years. But we will come a lot closer under Obama than we will under McCain.
Puddy
While I do lust after your svelte coat and many hued sophistry, I am afraid that the latest incarnation of Atwater-Rovism has left me scared shitless. So if you wann share pooh, I think oyu will find others more prepared to do so.
So, this is meant to be serious.
During the Demo primary contests one of my biggest worries was athat Demoes (Edwards and Hillary esp) resorting to atwater-Rove tacics could make a very bad issu8e for whoever won.
As one example, Obama and McCain have had pretty similar “plans” for Iraq. Hillary and Edwards used the sanity of Obama’s plan as an excuse for an attack of his antiwar credentials. Obam, iMO, did a lot to avoid saying certain things and ended up choosing the one other candidate who also showed a lot of responsibility .. Biden.
So now we come to the economic plans. Obama AND McCain are bot fucked by the Rove-Atwater rules that mean certain truths MUST never be uttered. Read my lipos, the man said, taxes is a goin up. They are going or, we will have massive inflation or we will sell Microsoft and Boeing to the Chinese Army or ???
BUT if Obama said this, he would never get elected.
Same for oil. Drill-drill-drill is stupid-stupid-stupid BUT,saying this is ..well .. unamarican so Obama will nto say it.
Palin might not pass a standard mental health exam of that tests includes the usual criteria of hearing voices. Even is she did, she is a greenie at politics … more a tidbit for Putin and Hu than a fit opponent. Obama will not say this either.
So my Red Dwarf-inspired puddy tat, I must say I find the he said, she said pretty fucking stooopidh now. Yes Obama’s plan is unrealistic and he will have to raise taxes. Thats is true of McC too. The best any of us can sdo, until someone finds a bottle of Rove-off spray disinfectant, is to look at what each man has said and how much sense that makes ..esp in terms of her or his choices of advisers,
Obama has proposed a very much needed restructuring of our progressive tax system. Of course that progression is .. progressive .. so your putative 250k 2 person 1040 is not gonna get hurt all that hard!
McC has not proposed anything.
Obama has proposed an international restructuring of our miitary to lower costs.
McC has proposed nothing.
Obama has proposed a well thought out healthcare plan
McC has not proposed anything.
Obama has proposed true school reform.
McC has proposed some vague ideas.
Obama is supported by a inter-party coalition of impressives. McC has almost no suprt form prof. military (ret), no support form major bussness leaders, etc.
obama chose Biden
McC chose Pailin
McC buddies up with Dobson, Gingrich, Robertson, and those guys.
Obam buddies up with Luger, Powell, Buffet, Ruben,
Now tell me ,, tell me you are serious about voting for MCain
Given the additional debt service required by the additional borrowing incured by the Bush administration, I doubt we can balance the budget even in eight years. But we will come a lot closer under Obama than we will under McCain.
————–
Again, see the Tax Policy Center analysis above of the candidates’ campaign proposals and the longer-term impact of these the deficit. Neither candidate is being realistic with their numbers at this point, though that will all change. And McCain’s plan to balance the budget by the end of his first term – he hasn’t mentioned it lately – was sheer nonsense.
With Medicare and Social Security costs looming these issues only grow worse.
Also see http://concordcoalition.org info.
@34: Bullshit double standards from the right. I don’t necessarily see the same level of criticism leveled at Fox News, which should just be declared the propaganda wing of the Republican Party at this point.
Marvin @ 40:
You haven’t been paying attention. Here’s the figures.
Reagan (eight years) – DJIA + 135.13%
Bush I (four years) – DJIA + 45.57%
Clinton (eight years) -DJIA + 225.37%
Bush II (as of today) -DJIA + 3.12%
If you want to play with averages, the DJIA has risen an average of 0.78% for each year Bush has been in office.
If you broke it down among the two terms of the Bush Presidency, the first four years had -.078% growth (not too surprising, considering tech boom bust and 9/11), but the second term still had only 3.92% growth (an aerage of 1.05% per year). That’s pretty dismal, too, and Bush has nobody to blame that upon except for Republican economic policy.
More importantly, the economy is heading in the wrong direction.
Bush & McCain want us to believe that this is just a temporary dip, that we’ve already hit bottom, and if we just ride it out we will be back into positive territory soon without changing any economic policy or management.
I believe that this is a dip from which we will temporarily partially recover, but over the long run unless there is a change in policy or management, it will be just one dip among many, with each dip being worse than the one before it.
45 “With Medicare and Social Security costs looming these issues only grow worse.”
Oh, McCain’s made it clear that his solution to that “problem” is the same one BushBoy has been practically peeing his pants about since before he took office: turn it all over to the crooks and fools responsible for what’s happening on Wall St. right now.
SeattleJew: I will not vote for McCain. Even on the phone I told you why I can’t and will not vote for him.
But in the effort to be somewhat fair, I see the Lilliputians here blowing all their smelly farts for Obama without understanding the premise of his tax policy.
I for one am a capitalist. I like making money to spend it and to give to charity. How can you give to charity if the tax man cometh and taketh away?
Regarding the one I know the most about since I have 9 relatives in various city school systems around this fair land, the NEA will never allow Obama’s school plan to see the light of day. Why? It would destroy their monopoly. It would force the NEA to remove lousy teachers and policies they foisted upon us with the Great Society. Notice the report high schools are failing us. Colleges have to send kids to remedial class studies.
Notice the hue and cry over the WASL. My children scored greater than the 95 percentile (actually one scored 98%ile in three but who’s bragging) in their 4th, 7th and 10th year testing but parents say the test is too hard. Do these FUWA parents take the time to understand what is being taught. I dealt with teachers teaching the Donkey pointed head talking points, evolution, etc. and I made sure my children understood the other side along with history, the meaning of life, etc. Yet most pinheads here want the schools to be baby sitting institutions. That’s what they got!
Anything John McCain proposes will be dissected, mutilated and shredded by your friends in the media along with the NEA.
Now you all talk about Alan Greenspan. Well who is Mrs Alan Greenspan. Figger it out.
I am amazed SeattleJew how many of these CEOs and presidents of these failed financial institutions supported Donkey causes. Then when I prove Obama is using some of the same guys on his team who have deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep ties into these Wall Street institutions you watch a pin drop here. Yet nary a peep over these facts. Most act like yelling loser boy. Yet when they folded, it’s because of Republicans? If they support Donkey 3:1 (75:25) 3+1=4, how can these pointy headed HA pukes claim anything legitimate for further consumption?
Remember when Rick Warren asked McCain about what is rich?
WARREN: Everybody talks about, you know, taxing the rich, but not the poor, the middle class. At what point, give me a number, give me a specific number. Where do you move from middle class to rich?
MCCAIN: How about $5 million? No, but seriously, I don’t think you can, I don’t think seriously that the point is I’m trying to make, seriously, and I’m sure that comment will be distorted but the point is…that we want to keep people’s taxes low, and increase revenues. … So, it doesn’t matter really what my definition of rich is because I don’t want to raise anybody’s taxes. I really don’t.”
Do you remember when Obama said “I guess if you’re making $3 million a year, you’re middle class.” Stupid comment. Obama wants the middle class to be as poor as possible so he can be the “messiah” and provide the necessary guvmint assistance to ensure his election!
Unfortunately when was Jesus while doing his community organizing was telling people to about their babies? When was Jesus while he was doing his community organizing telling people to marry the same sex?
Liberals look as Jesus as a long haired hippy with strange ideas and since Obama has hippy friends like Ayers and Doorn of course this fits the Donkey stereotype. Maybe it’s Obama’s strange ideas that people endear him to Jesus?
Funny how the Republicans can argue that the massive economic disruptions coming out of Washington D.C. are insignificant, that the economy is “fundamentally sound”, and that no change is necessary…
While in Washington State, the same Republicans argue that the State of Washington, which is doing pretty well economically (certainly when compared with the rest of the U.S.), is in a “budget crisis”, and that massive change is needed in the form of Dino Rossi.
My question: Does it hurt to talk out of both sides of your mouth so much? I haven’t tried it, I wouldn’t know.
Art: Yep, I’m sure Bush is upset about the “bad timing” he had with his attempt to privatize Social Security. He had to wait until there was an uptick in the DJIA before he could make the proposal. But then Katrina hit with FEMA’s failed disaster relief attempts, followed by resurgent insurgency in Iraq and quickly by multiple public failures on various levels which undermined his (and other Republicans’) credibility. If he could have pushed his plan through before Katrina, we could all be watching our Social Security accounts vanish before our eyes.
@50 Puddybuddy
Ok .. so you are an equal opportunity skeptic when it comes to candidates.
Answering the rest of your screed would require a quilt work. So let me see if someplace beneath that allegedly feline exterior resides a genuine thinking mammal of the round pupil variety. (as we know, cats ONLY htink of themselves)
1. You say you are a capitalist. WTF fo you mean? I assume you means that you REALLY mean you want the most opportunity you can have to do as well as you can for yourself and your mischpoche?
Does this mean classical capitalism? You mean the sort of thing they had in England with strict classism? Would that please milord or, as I think I suspect you come from the less privildged classes, do you mean something else?
Or does it perchance mean syndicalism… state capitalism of the form we now see in the Entity formerly known as the PRC? Where dem dat was commissars and generals get to do REALLY well off of everyone elses backs?
Or do you mean capitalism a la Jefferson, you know the land owning type where each of us was free t make what we could of our land and “other” property?
To tell the truth, I suspect you do have some idea of what you mean by capitalism but I doubt very much that your concept would please Ayn Rand, Ross Perot, or GW Bush.
+++++++++++++++++++++++
So I will tell you what I think and hope BHO means ..
capitalism should mean an optimized state of opportunity where each of us has the maximum possible chance to achieve. This means some leveling of the playing field to flatten out the effects fo inherited wealth and class and race on opportunity. Given his lack of vision of the industrial world, I suspect Mr. Jefferson would be am opportunist today.
Taxation is needed in an opportunist society to accomplish common goals, esp in regard to the infrastructure needed to support our economy and the schools.
The other part of your screed that I will pat your tail for is your comment on the NEA. You cand I are on trail with this one. OTOH, I will point out that BHO;s stand on this issue makes no political sense. It cost him vites vs HRC and may cost him money now. So, I thin Barry, Like Puddy and Steve all see this the same way. WE caould use some $$ bit what we really need to fix the schools is a lot better labor model so teach can get a reward for doin good!
32. Goldy spews:
“Dow drops 500 points and the righties attack the Dems.”
Goldy, that’s because you KLOWNS control CONGRESS!! You make the laws. Where are the laws your ilk are proposing to improve the economy??
THERE ARE NONE!
Typical of the LEFT..get in charge and not know what in the heck to do.
Kind of like you LEFTY’s now have this powerful engine called DEMOCRAT CONTROLLED CONGRESS and are stuck on stupid like deer in headlights.
Wake up DEMS and propose some laws to help the economy!!!!!!!!!
And who was in charge the previous SIX years with a Republican president?
“Actually, lawyers DO add value to the economy.”
Lawyers are scum. They are economic parasites. They are a drag on the economy. Don’t tell me – you’re a graduate student in “government studies,” right rhp6033?
Norton @ 56: Nope, that’s not my major. You could guess again, but I’m not giving out any more information which would allow trolls here to identify me or my employer.
Lawyers are part of the infrastructure which make a modern economy work. It’s one of those structural componants which you often don’t appreciate until it’s gone.
Kindof like FEMA – Bush & Co. called it “government welfare” and tried to abolish it through negelct and budget cuts, then got into big trouble when it couldn’t respond adequately to Katrina. Oops. Maybe we needed it after all?
Most people who hate lawyers started out by hating their ex-wife’s lawyer & the judge which made him pay child support & alimony, or a personal injury lawyer who sued him for an accident he didn’t believe was his fault. They think a better idea of justice would be for the wife to depend entirely upon their husband for whatever tidbits he chose to sprinkle out for her, or to only have OTHER people pay for accidents, not themselves.
55: You got that right. Republicans in charge of Congress from 1994 through 2006. In the White House from 2000 through 2008. Having appointed a majority of the Supreme Court justices longer than I can remember right now.
And for the past 20 months, the Republican minority in the Senate has agressivly blocked by filibuster virtually all Democratic legislation, and what hasn’t been blocked in the Senate has been vetoed by the White House.
And somehow they want to blame the Bush administration’s failure to follow their legislatively mandated (since 1933) requirements to regulate the U.S. financial markets on the Democrats?
Silly, shallow thinking, at best. Or agressivly and knowingly dishonest, more probable.
rhp@51: is there a big deficit in WA State budget or not? If the state is doing so great why wasn’t Gregoire at the wheel of state?
just checkin’
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac Invest in Lawmakers
See: http://www.opensecrets.org/new.....eddie.html
Wall Street Shake-up Connects to Washington Through Contributions, Personal Investments
See: http://www.opensecrets.org/new.....cts-t.html
Also see my previous post (#17) here:
http://www.horsesass.org/?p=6946#comments
regarding the contributions to McCain and Obama from the financial services industry.
At some point we have to start paying for what we do.
It’s quite as simple as that.
Consider it credit counseling for the nation as a whole.
You can’t love your country and not support IT.