Christ almighty, what the fuck is going on any more?
A 30-year-old Seattle man was killed and another man wounded in a shooting at a crowded bar in Bellevue early Monday, police said.
The shooting broke out just after 1 a.m. at Munchbar at Bellevue Square, an upscale shopping center about 10 miles east of Seattle, said Carla Iafrate, a spokeswoman for the Bellevue Police Department.
Police officers were outside the bar when gunfire erupted because a large crowd had gathered there, she said.
More than 600 people were inside the venue at the time of the shooting. “It was a very complicated scene,” Iafrate said.
I’m sure that Kemper is thinking that it would be much worse with light rail.
FREEDOMZ!
“The gunman who ambushed four volunteer firefighters, killing two, in upstate New York had spent 17 years in prison for beating his grandmother to death with a hammer in 1980, police said.”
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_new.....e-say?lite
Roger Rabbit Commentary: I suppose the NRA’s answer to this crime would be that convicted killers who don’t have access to guns will use hammers.
Maybe we should have a daily homicide thread on this blog.
Neanderthals and guns don’t mix. And, of course, the situation is much worse when corrupt police and prosecutors enable and encourage this kind of violent lawlessness.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sC_zrGwaoMM
Here’s another reason why it’s time to take guns away from stupid humans:
“Now let’s take a look at the real world of American gun ownership. The following incident occurred in August:
“‘A man was shot in the face 9 p.m. Friday in an altercation with a neighbor over barking dogs on Atlas Street,’ Troy Police said. ‘Police arrested David George Keats, 73 … and charged him with attempted murder ….’
“[W]itnesses stated that the altercation began when Keats let his three dogs outside and the dogs began to bark. … Keats’ 52-year-old next door neighbor yelled at the dogs to be quiet …. Keats then ran up to the victim, yelled, ‘Don’t tell my dogs to shut up,’ and began shooting at the victim.
“‘One bullet hit the man in the face, piercing both cheeks, and four more shots were fired at the victim as he was running away,’ according to the report. The encounter … ended nonlethally only by good luck. A shot in the face is a shot to kill.”
“Nor was this encounter aberrational. There’s solid research to show that most so-called defensive gun uses are not really defensive at all.”
http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/24/.....?hpt=hp_t3
Roger Rabbit Commentary: The next time some NRA yahoo (see, e.g., Wayne LaPierre) tries to tell you “an armed society is a polite society,” show him the video linked @5 above.
What LaPierre doesn’t understand, or more likely chooses to ignore, is the human propensity for aggression — which is perfectly illustrated by the old coot with a gun who shot his neighbor in the head simply for telling his dogs to shut up.
Hopefully that angry old man with the gun will be convicted by a jury and — if the judge has any common sense — will spend the rest of his life in prison. That’s where he belongs. But that won’t help the next person who complains about a rude neighbor’s dogs running loose and barking … and gets shot in the head for it.
Maybe what the neighbor should have done is shot the dogs. Dogs are useless anyway. They should all be shot! Heh, just kidding, that’s an NRA joke.
@6
The dude missed four times at close range? How the hell does he think he’s going to keep himself safe with a gun when he can’t hit the broadside of a barn with the thing.
Carl, think of how much safe everyone would have been if all 600 people had been armed and they all pulled out their guns and started blasting away.
Not when it’s assholes that have the guns.
Nice!
Can we have background checks for ammo purchases now, please.
@10
With a hammer. He killed his grandmother with a hammer and this guy was able to get his hands on a gun and some ammo. It’s time for instant background checks on ammo purchases. Running a check on me while I buy a box of ammo wont restrict any of my rights. It wont keep me from going shooting. It will help keep ammo out of the hands of people who should not have it.
If only they’d start arming cops. If she’d had a gun on her she would have been safe!
@9 We can always hope they’ll cull each other.
What bugs me so much is how the NRA keeps saying that because prudent regulation will not absolutely stop gun violence, we shouldn’t try,
And yet, turning schools into armed camps won’t absolutely stop gun violence (Columbine had an armed cop) but we should spare no expense in trying.
@9 We can always hope they’ll cull each other.
I’ve read a lot of sci fi short stories about this theme, and after a lot of generations, the ones that were left would, in theory, be a lot smarter and calmer, the only problem would all the bystanders mowed down during the culling, like in Chicago.
How “polite” was Zimmerman?
What if Trayvon had been armed too?
@15 Well, now that you mention it, the shooter who gunned down a Houston cop today also killed a bystander. I was thinking more of a road rage between two punks who do us the favor of shooting each other on a remote country road. Or gangs that wipe each other out.
The founder of MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Driving) has advice on how to stop America’s crazy gun culture from taking more lives.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/24/.....hpt=hp_bn7
Wait a second here — the killer in New York and the killer in Bellevue were both convicted felons. In fact, both were previously convicted of killing others (albeit without firearms). As convicted felons, both state and federal law made it illegal for them to possess a firearm, and illegal for anyone to give them a firearm.
We aren’t enforcing the gun control laws that are already on the books — especially sensible laws prohibiting convicted felons (such as killers) from having firearms at all. Exactly how will taking firearms away from law-abiding citizens fix this problem?
Exactly how will taking firearms away from law-abiding citizens fix this problem?
Fewer guns and tighter controls reduces the chances of gun violence. If you don’t believe this, you might actually try looking at the fucking data. This is not rocket science.
We need more guns. More guns and even bazookas and rocket launchers to combat this problem. Or on the other hand, sounds like the problem is you know….
‘Tuba Man’ killer sought as suspect in fatal bar shooting
Police say the suspect in Monday’s fatal shooting at a Bellevue Square bar is a 19-year-old who pleaded guilty in the 2009 fatal beating of a Seattle street musician.
And the Gun is the problem? Looks to me like someone who was convicted of murder in 2009 should NOT HAVE BEEN OUT OF JAIL!
@21 – was that NFL player who killed his ex-girlfriend and then himself a convicted felon? Was he so called mentally unstable prior to the event? You would have to lock up everyone all at once.
I was just reading Popular Mechanics article about a new tool for police and the military, a pencil sized bolt and chain cutter. I thought to myself, great another tool a robber could use. Any tool can be used for the wrong reason, but with the bolt and chain cutter at least it would only be a robbery perpetrated by someone using the tool in the wrong way. With a gun the consequences are death. Personal responsibility is a big part of the problem, but giving access to guns to the wrong person is also the problem.
Let’s start educating in public schools how to make bombs. Why not?
After Trayvon Martin was shot, I don’t remember the NRA saying that every black teenager should go out and get a gun for protection…
— @OlaBetiku via Facebook
No one’s advocating “taking firearms away from law-abiding citizens.”
We are advocating bans, or at least tighter controls on high capacity magazines, and doing the same instant background check that’s done on gun purchases on ammo purchases. None of these things take guns away from law-abiding citizens.
Two policy changes:
1) Tax the snot out of ammunition. You want to actually use that gun you own, then you’ll pay the government a hefty fee in order to do so.
2) If a gun you ever owned is used in a crime, you are liable for any civil damages arising from the commission of that crime. This applies, first and foremost, to gun manufacturers.
@26 I would settle for owners of guns (and other dangerous instrumentalities, such as pit bulls) being required to carry an adequate amount of liability insurance.
As for what is adequate insurance, I would guess the tort claims against the estate of the late Mrs. Lanza are likely to reach the
$50 – $75 million range.
@21 Guns enable psychos like the Tuba Man Killer to kill more people faster and more efficiently.
28 That wasn’t so much the point, the point was two fold, first what the H was he doing out of jail, if he confessed to the killing of the Tuba Man, and secondarily, where did he purchase the gun if he was a convicted killer.
@18: “We aren’t enforcing the gun control laws that are already on the books — especially sensible laws prohibiting convicted felons (such as killers) from having firearms at all.”
How are we not enforcing the laws we have? Do you have any evidence that law enforcement knew about this guy having a gun and did nothing? I hear this nonsense all the time about not enforcing the laws we have; and every example I’ve ever seen associated with that claim has had to do with someone WHO HAD BEEN CAUGHT–BECAUSE THE FUCKING LAW WAS BEING ENFORCED.
There’s a difference between “the laws we have are not sufficient” and “the laws we have are not being enforced”. Please stop confusing the two very separate arguments.
With the Gun Show Loophole, the claim that there are already enough laws on the books to prevent felons from obtaining guns is laughable.
What’s understood, but not being stated, is that (a) today’s NRA is nothing more than a lobbying group protecting gun manufacturers; and (b) hiring and arming a cop for every elementary school would substantially increase gun sales to police departments (one service weapon, one backup piece, plus others for target practice, etc.).
@7 After he graduated from law school in the late 1930’s my uncle’s first gig was working for the district attorney in El Paso, Texas. He related one incident in which a sheriff’s deputy accosted a suspect and they both emptied their pistols in each others’ direction at point blank range. Neither was wounded.
@5 For all we know, the Neanderthals had better self control than we do.
@18 Richard Pope
Exactly how will taking firearms away from law-abiding citizens fix this problem?
We’ll trust, Richard, that your question was asked in good faith and not simply a weak straw man.
To wit, Chicago Fan over at the SLOG addresses this often raised ‘issue’.
Some Logic Lessons for Gun Nuts
emphasis added by me.
Hell the UK has started their own petition to keep Piers Morgan out of the UK. They say it took them 40 year to rid himself of him. Only to have him come here and attack our 2nd amendment.
https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/uk-government-stop-piers-morgan-from-being-deported-back-to-the-uk-from-america?utm_campaign=twitter_link&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=share_petition
“An armed society is a polite society.” This bit of bullshit comes from Robert Heinlein, a fascist who was in the military but never in combat. Anytime someone quotes Heinlein’s Lazarus Long character as if it’s actual deep wisdom, I know I’m dealing with a person with the mind of a not-very-thoughtful 15 year old.
Guns are tools. Tools that can escalate a trivial disagreement into homicide. Thinking, “I’ve got a gun” can give a what I’ve heard called a case of “gun balls.” Rather than walk away from a minor annoyance you can confront, escalate and kill.
I know of one case where a legal gun owner came to the rescue of a neighbor woman who was in a domestic dispute with hubby. Gun owner had been drinking as well. Shot and badly wounded the husband. Wife told cops it was no big deal until her savior with handgun appeared. She ended up as a prosecution witness rather than a defense witness for a “defense of others” claim. Legal gun owner got 10 years plus another five for using a gun. Law-abiding gun owners are law-abiding until that one time.
I own firearms (actually quite a few) but am appalled by gun advocates who daydream Red Dawn fantasies of taking on the government, the UN, the environmentalists, on and on. They fucking worship their guns. It’s their only issue. The sea could turn to wormwood and blood but not problem as long as they get to keep their guns.
Americans are incredibly murderous compared to other industrialized nations. We entertain the fantasy of the hardy individualist who takes care of himself and his without anybody’s help. No negotiation, no compromise, just an unerring shot to solve all problems. Americans love owning guns because it lets them pretend their safety isn’t a function of our shared society. They should grow up.