The New York Times reports the stunning news that defying all expectations, consumers can sometimes be rational: “Ford and G.M. Suffer as Buyers Shun S.U.V.’s”
The latest automobile sales figures show that Americans are increasingly wary of gas-thirsty sport utility vehicles. That was particularly bad news for General Motors and the Ford Motor Company, which both saw their sales slip last month as consumers continued their steady march into Asian car companies’ dealerships.
…
General Motors has long maintained that gas prices do not affect how consumers approach buying a car or truck. But on Tuesday, G.M.’s chief industry sales analyst, Paul Ballew, appeared to retreat somewhat from that position, saying that record gas prices were likely playing some role in falling S.U.V. sales.
Ummmm… ya think?
They didn’t learn from the lessons of the past, did they? Guess they’ll have to follow the imports…again.
Thats okay, lets go drill in Alaska…never mind creative thinking to move past the abuse of fossil fules.
Same thing happened in 1979. But wait and see, there’ll soon be drilling rigs sprouting off the California coast, and in wilderness areas everywhere. And maybe even off the Oregon/Washington coast, but only if Bush pays the industry to drill dry holes — which he probably will — anything to give his oil industry buddies the keys to the Treasury, right?
You see, Oregon and Washington have NO oil or gas. That’s because the geologic conditions necessary to create them never existed on this part of the condition. There’s nothing under our feet except glacial debris and dry rock.
ooops should read “continent” not “condition”
Alan–
Perhaps we ought to tap you as our next gas source.
When you add up all the gas-bagging you’ve done the past months, we could have easily fueled our entire military for years!
Cynical, that was funny. Good post on Alan. Remember he is a barrister, so bloviating is his forte.
Have you all seen the Ford and GM investments? They have their fingers in Toyota, Nissan and Mitsubishi. Are they really worried? Honda introduced a big truck, Nissan has five SUVs and Toyota made the Sequoia bigger. Hmmm…
Regarding drilling, as an engineer, there are new clean ways of drilling with little or no environmental impact. You know this Alan, but the greenies want you to believe that oil companies use 1970’s technology. Also, where does the a barrel of oil come from? Usually the middle east. 55 gallons are in a barrel. Go to http://science.howstuffworks.com/oil-refining2.htm. The middle man makes much money on moving the gas. Once you start looking at the overall cost breakdown, yes the oil companies make lots of money, but the lawyers fees on lawsuits per capita make more!!!
Pudster
Yeh I can hardly wait to see the hard working contractors and landscape people loading their tools and mowers into their yugo. The Democraps 9.5 cent gas tax is regressively punishing these workers who need trucks for the work they do. Maybe they can load their sacks of manure into a metro bus or Sound Transit to get to their jub site!
GS, aren’t the landscapers and contractors democraps? That’s what the democraps say, the lower and middle middle class are their people. Then they place the gas tax on their people. That makes sense.
Pudster
The egg timer is running but two things:
1. The gas tax is unfortunate but necessary. If you think transportation here will be fixed without a tax revenue to pay for the fixes, I have a bridge to sell you. One part of me agrees with GS that it would be good to have some sort of break for people who are using their vehicles for work. It’s no different than Oregonians, Albertans, etc. not paying sales tax on Washington state purchases.
2. Pick up this week’s copy of the Economist. They have a wonderful 20-page spread on the oil business and some of the factors that move it.
Maybe I’ll have more time later today and can summarize some stuff for y’all.
Could it be that more people are buying big ol’ fancy and expensive PICK-UP trucks instead of SUVs?
GM stock…….80 to 29 in 5 years. Those greedy shareholders! If only those poor GM workers were unionized! Like all corporations, GM needs to be run out of business, because capitalism is bad and the greedy shareholders are starving the poor workers! [hehe]
Puddinhead @ 5
“the oil companies make lots of money, but the lawyers fees on lawsuits per capita make more!!!”
Prove it — show us the math! Typical right-wing garbage — attack the lawyers, blame everything on lawsuits, and make up facts as you go along. I’ll bet you’d be the first person in line at the lawyer’s office if you tripped on a sidewalk crack (or on a butt crack).
GS @ 6
Typical wingo gassing — bitches like hell about a 9 1/2 cent tax that builds highways and replaces worn out bridges, but totally silent about about the 80 cent price spike going into oil producer and oil company pockets.
Environmentally friendly oil drilling isn’t as environmentally friendly as no drilling. In any case, apart from drilling technology, spills are another issue. But the biggest issue of all is the inescapable fact that we can’t drill our way to lower prices or reduced dependence on foreign oil. It’s simply impossible. To put the problem in perspective, East Texas, the largest oilfield in the lower 48 states, has produced 5.2 billion barrels since 1930; the U.S. currently consumes 7.66 billion barrels a year. ANWR, one of the 5 largest oilfields in North America, is believed to hold recoverable reserves of 5 to 15 billion barrels — at best, equal to no more than 2 years of U.S. consumption. At current rates of consumption, the world’s known reserves will be exhausted in less than 30 years, but consumption is expected to grow by 50% or more over the next 30 years. So tell me, please, where the oil will come from?
Just to show how stupid the anti-science, anti-fact, right-wing aluminum hat boys really are, I read a claim on a r/w web site not long ago that oil will last forever because the oil reservers are refilling from oil seeping upward from limitless pools of oil buried deep in the earth’s mantle. This is physically impossible because at that depth the heat and pressure would break down the oil molecules. No oil has ever been found deeper than about 18,000 feet, and never will be, because oil can’t exist at greater depths. But that doesn’t slow down the make-up-facts crowd a whit.
The whole point of the ANWR debate that is completely lost on the wingers is that drilling for what’s left of America’s oil and natural gas CAN’T SOLVE THE PROBLEM. The only way to solve the problem is to invent new energy technologies that (a) aren’t dependent on exhaustible resources and (b) are at least as efficient and inexpensive as hydrocarbons. Until then, we will not only continue transferring wealth and ownership of our economy to other countries, but we will also be moving ever closer to an inevitable day of energy meltdown.
Petroleum is a one-time gift from nature, like an inheritance from a spinster aunt. We’re damned fools if we simply spend it, and don’t invest in the energy that will have to replace it.
Or maybe conservatives loved the 19th century so much they’ll be content to go back to horse-drawn buggies?
No, Alan, I don’t trip on butt cracks. Right wing – my niece is a lawyer and my son want to go into law. I want him to go into law to pay me back for all the money spent on him!!!! Yeah right.
I don’t have the latest facts, I used the NYT in 2004, you know your favorite newspaper, on the lawyer fees for the cigarette lawsuits, Tyco, Enron, MCI, the Cox2-Inhibitors lawsuits against the drug companies where they make their big bucks. I would need to scour the Internet to show you the lawyer fees. But You should receive that documentation form companies like Matthew-Bender, right?
Pudster
Alan, your side says no nuclear power, no new refineries, no to this, no to that, so how can we diversify in our energy needs when the Sierra CLub, GreenPeace and their ilk so no to everything?
Help me understand this.
Pudster
Alan @ 12: I’d have to agree with your post, but I’ve never understood why energy policy has to be an either/or. We should be drilling as we are still oil-based, however, we should also/and be looking to alternatives, as you said. I think we should all be willing to compromise on energy; the right should be willing to be more open to alternative forms (solar, wind, geothermal, etc, also more conservation), and the left should at least be willing to talk about current alternatives (namely nuclear). However, political interests as they are, we can’t we dicuss compromise, much less try to reach it.
If the gas tax is what the people wanted, why was the tax not put to the people? Why were voter approved I601 and $30 tabs simply walked around? The voter will have the last laugh in this one! I guarantee it!
Jon, I am open to alternative forms of power. Ever been to the big island Hawaii? At the far southern tip, there is a huge wind farm. When the wife and I go there, we always go to the tip because it’s windy there and you can see the ocean forever, clear and clean.
People wanted to place a similar windfarm on in Martha’s Vineyard or Nantucket and who said NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! Robert “I’m a tree hugging environmentalist” Kennnedy Jr. Butt, how many of you knew this. He vehemently protested that it’s ugly and noisy. Well the generators are somewhat noisy but they provide good power. Why did he protest? NIMBY!!!
I am for solar. I have a buddy in California who has solar power backup for his business and his home. I don’t know where geothermal would work except around the Yellowstone park. We here in WA state could tap into MT. ST. Helens and MT. Rainier and state geothermal.
Butt, I am for convential methods too, which Alan and his friends are dead set against. They won’t meet half way.
Pudster
We all would be paying that extra 9.5 cents anyway, one way or another. It might as well be in a tax that comes back to us.
We are so committed to oil as an energy source that everytime some oil companies need a boost in their profit margins, they find an excuse to invade an oil rich country, and then claim that demand has gone up so much that supplies can’t keep up. Oil prices won’t come down until we use less oil AND find alternative sources and they may not come down even then. People have already exhibited how much they can absorb at the pump so why should the prices come down – and…why should the oil companies increase supply when they can claim it is “demand” that keeps the price high. The oil business doesn’t have to be responsive to consumer outrage or demand? They can control supply and they will whether or not they blame it on consumers or a manufactured war. Any state that doesn’t have a gas tax is simply going to miss out, because the prices will increase to the top level nation-wide whether they have a tax or not, and those consumer will pay the same price, without the state getting any of it back – it will go straight into Halliburton’s pockets. So enjoy! you should have seen this coming, we’ve been there before.
Long term there’s no question that technology-based alternative fuels are the solution all the way around: economically, environmentally, physically/chemically.
Short term, there’s also no question that the NW needs at least one oil refinery to handle their own needs instead of sucking off the Alaskan pipeline. We’re paying for that lack right now.
Goldy,
You’re such a poster child for liberal dogma. Here we go with the SUV bashing. You probably think that solution to all our energy woes is to just get everyone in a government and Goldy approved small car.
Of course people respond to price pressure, but to just take that and turn it into yet another shrill commentary is your signature.
Lame.
Nuclear power, is the only short term solution, to fill in between all the novelty power sources, it is.
Until we decide to actually do something as a team, languish, we will.
Many viable solutions, it will take.
Tidal, bio-diesel, bio-mass, hydro, solar, etc.
Pilot programs, in all these , we should have.
Nuclear plants, we should be building.
New designs much safer, they are.
Build wildlife parks around nuclear plants, we should.
A stranger was seated next to Little Tommy on the plane when the
stranger turned to the boy and said, “Let’s talk. I’ve heard that flights will go quicker if you strike up a conversation with your fellow passenger.”
Little Tommy, who had just opened his book, closed it slowly and
said to the stranger, “What would you like to discuss?”
“Oh, I don’t know,” said the stranger. “How about nuclear power?”
“OK,” said Little Tommy. “That could be an interesting topic. But let me ask you a question first. A horse, a cow, and a deer all eat grass. The same stuff. Yet a deer excretes little pellets, while a cow turns out a flat patty, and a horse produces clumps of dried grass. Why do you suppose that is?”
“Jeez,” said the stranger. “I have no idea.”
“Well, then,” said Little Tommy, “How is it that you feel qualified to discuss nuclear power when you don’t know shit?”
Pudster,
I’m against nukes but so are the energy companies – they’re too expensive and risky to finance – remember WPPS? That being said I predict we’ll see more nukes but not as many as we’ll need because again – they’re damned expensive to build.
We’ll also see more use of coal but who wants to be like China who pollutes their air and water like there’s no tomorrow? Aren’t we supposed to be smarter than that?
Oil depletion is going to force all sides to compromise.
The main thing that has to go is our wasteful way of life. The suburban way of life is dreary, mind-numbing and energy-intensive. The US suburbs are the single biggest misallocation of resources in human history. Any solution or alternative to the suburban wasteland has to be 100 percent better.
In any case nature is going to force the changes upon us unless someone makes desktop fusion work.
Jeff B @ 20
“Of course people respond to price pressure, but to just take that and turn it into yet another shrill commentary is your signature.
Lame.”
Then, why do you read HA? And, why bother commenting?
Marilyn, did you actually think today? Did you look into the mirror and say what is on MoveOn.pork today to discuss on HorsesAss? I thought John Kerry and Hilary Clinton debunked the we went to war for oil in Iraq in February 2005? Didn’t MoveOn.pork update their web site on this new information?
Halliburton’s pockets? Name me another US based company that employs US people to pay US taxes that does what Halliburton does? Halliburton lost many people “invading and exploiting” the Iraqi people. More MoveOn.pork blather. If you want the Germans – Siemens or the French – (IEG?, I forget them right now) to do the work, step to the blog and say so. If you want us to lose the business and give it to the Europeans, step up and say so please so we will know you are another against America crowd.
Why did Clinton use Halliburton in the Balkans, hmmm…? Nary a peep from your types Marilyn when your guys use the same company. But I didn’t realize that Halliburton was a big oil company. I thought that was Mobil, Exxon, BP, RDS, and others. I didn’t see Halliburton on the official oil exploration and refining sites at the SEC. Please give me the site where they posted this information, and I’ll gladly read it.
I do agree with you that the economic inelasticity of oil coming down as fast as it increases is wrong. It immediately goes up but takes forever to come down. I’ll concede this to you.
As I stated in another thread, why not go back into Kuwait and take over their fields? Saddam proved to us how easy it is to do this. Why not just guard the oil pipelines in Iraq and take the oil from the northern and southern Iraqi terminals and directly ship it to the US? Your inane stupid argument is so off base on how things work that I laugh at comments like this.
The problems that occurred on the Viaduct and the 520 bridge is the utter bridge neglect from previous democrapic administrations since Dixy Lee Ray. Where was Dan Evans, Mike Lowry and Gary Locke on this. Your side has been in charge for the last two decades and what have you accomplished on roads, except some HOV lanes and the SR526 widening? You guys want light rail, which the Everett Herald recently says it cost so much money down the toilet per rider. Now the monorail is the solution? Ha, why are companies pulling out of that boondoggle?
Nuclear power, come a long way, it has.
http://www.nei.org/
WPPSS – Wasn’t that overseen during democrapic administrations?
I wasn’t here during that time, but who controlled the big house?
Pudster
If you breath only air from a coal fired plant, die you will.
If you burn wood, in bio-mass, pollute you will.
Pollution from nuclear, is in a container, not in your lungs.
Solve this problem, nuclear is most environmentally friendly, it is.
GS @ 6
DUMBASS…way to make excuses!!
1- Labor can still get their minimum wage jobs done using hand tools…just takes more friggen effort,
2- Are you REALLY that concerned about their means of transportation or unwilling to work harder to make a change?
Before you respond, tell me how many miles you’ve ridden in say the last year? How about the Metro/ST? what have YOU done to reduce the bullshit? Own a push mower? Use bio-fuels?
What about any of you “wingers”? Do you try to get a auto that gets the best mileage of its class or go for the penis extention Super Mega Earthhauler? What about a simple carpool? What do you folks do besides bitch and moan about gas taxes,really?
Before ya crawl up my arse, I’ve logged over 30 miles a day on a bike in the Seattle metro area for 8 years stright, and have been able to keep my yard and garden as nice as all my neighors (if not better) without a cup of fuel. Sure it takes longer, but i’d rather walk in the sun that sit and breathe exaust.
The sad thing i’ve seen happen in this country is the complete lack of desire on a corperate/gov’ment level to REALLY reduce our dependancy. For Gods sake, we can put radio controlled robots on friggen Marz, but can institute a viable alternative to good ole gas? BULLSHIT I say! Theres enough creative genius left in the country/world to remedy this, but the MONEYGRUBBERS will not let the happen. Think about it. How much is really at stake? Who has the most to loose? If you were at the top of the oil empire, would you REALLY invest in a true alternative that would effectivly shut you down? I think not.
If we really GAVE A DAMN we’d show thru our pocketbooks that we’re not gonna feed into waste. But did we? Uh…NO!
Dear Puddy~
YOu might want to know a fact or two before you spout. Washington governors since Dixie Lee:
Dan Evans was and is a Republican and was governor before Dixie Lee.
John Spellman, another Republican, was governor from 1981-1985
Honestly, if you can’t get the basic facts right, why should we give any credence to your opinions?
DamnageD: “If you were at the top of the oil empire, would you REALLY invest in a true alternative that would effectivly shut you down? I think not.”
While I agree with the premise, the oil companies can read the writing on the wall as good (or even better) than anyone else when it comes to how much oil is left out there…you’d think they’d want (have?) alternatives ready to go, and (most importantly) have control of them so they could transistion to these alternatives.
Fuck oil – go biodiesel! You right wing types should like it – after all, we get to keep our cars, which should annoy progressives no end (I like to throw the Rethugs a bone where I can).
Get the farmers back to work growing soybeans for the oil, put the rust-belt states back to work refining it and building a new generation of diesel vehicles (and all of the Big Three US automakers already build lots of diesel trucks – so it won’t just be VW and Mercedes building new diesel vehicles), and the rest of us can tell both the oil mullahs and W’s oil cronies to go fuck themselves.
Talk about a win-win-win!!!
Goldy–
I bought 1000 shares of GM last Thurs. @ 26.50/share.
I checked a few minutes ago and it’s now @ 32.20 (up 16% today)
and up about 23% in less than a week.
Great headline Goldy….timely.
Please tell me what is going to tank next so I can invest in it!
Putty Brain @ 13
Off the top of your head, just as I thought.
@ 14
Nuclear plants, like hydropower dams, can be sited at a very limited number of locations. They needs lots of cooling by moving water, which limits their siting to large rivers or estuaries. Almost all of the usable locations are environmentally sensitive, and the massive release of heat into these waters does tremendous ecological damage. But my biggest personal objection to nuclear plants is the law passed by Congress in the 1980s limiting a plant operator’s liability for accidents to $500 million. The nuclear industry claims the plants aren’t economically feasible without liability immunity. That means if your home is made uninhabitable by a nuclear accident you’re shit out of luck — you lose your life savings and spend your old age in poverty. That’s not socially acceptable, and until that law is repealed and plants are adequately insured, as far as I’m concerned not one more plant should be built in this country. In addition, the nuclear industry has an abysmal safety record.
Yes, nuclear power is a promising technology, the reactor designs are better now, and I’d love to see some of the warhead stockpile turned into electricity. But there has got to be a fundamental change in the industry’s leadership and attitude, or this is not an acceptable technology for our society.
Steven if you read later, I said I was not here yet. I came to WA State in 1993, so I was not sure of who was who. But my tenet about who has control for the last 20 years by democraps is correct, right? So if I got the governors wrong, I apologize. I thought I said Dan Evans was before Mike Lowry. I was correct except for he was Republican. I was living under the tyranny of Mario Cuomo, near the highest in state taxes at that time in NY and living 2900 miles away.
Cynical: The wife said where should she invest her retirement moneies. I said I wasn’t sure I needed to research it. I should have contacted you for guidance. DAMN!
Pudster
Jon @ 15
Jon, as I mentioned above, finding places to site nuclear plants is a huge problem. Even if you disregard the environment, possible sites are scarce as hens teeth.
Alan/DonSux–
Once again…you prove to be the ultimate gasbag…
and ironically the solution to our energy problems.
How do we harness the bitter energy DonSux/Alan spews in the form of gasbagging??
He is a more viable source of energy than tidal generators!
Yup, tides are consistent but so is DonSux’s gasbagging…plus his gasbagging is seemingly never ending!
Regarding oil refineries, the reason they haven’t been built is because the industry has chosen not to invest in more refinery capacity, which would drive down fuel prices. They kill two birds with one stone by blaming environmentalists. The smoking gun is Shell’s insistence on tearing down its Bakersfield, Calif. refinery instead of selling it to another company or the consortium of independents who offered to buy it. Shell claimed the refinery was losing money, but internal documents revealed it’s Shell’s most profitable North American refinery. The refinery shortage is a calculated effort to drive up prices that has nothing to do with environmental regulations. The environmental requirements for a refinery are merely a (relatively minor) cost of doing business the industry can easily pass on to consumers.
Steven @ 30 “Honestly, if you can’t get the basic facts right, why should we give any credence to your opinions?”
I learned the hard way, Puddlypiss is not even worth reading. He doesn’t know the facts and refuses to acknowledge the facts when presented to him.
He’s just another wingnut Troll.
Mr. C @ 37
We could heat 1,000 homes by hooking a pipe to your mouth.
Alan, why not place nuclear plants in the sea but before the contental shelf drops off? They would have full water use, the sea would buffet the temperature changes, the use of 414 or higher stainless steel would withstand the sea corrosiveness. Build them on a platform and it would provide the power we would need. But the environmental wacko jackoffs would be against that also, right?
Pudster
Cynical;
Insider Trading as well? boy you are going down as well.
This guy is the Modern day Howard Hughes.
NEW YORK (MarketWatch) – General Motors Corp. shares surged more than 17% Wednesday, triggering a broad market rally after billionaire corporate raider Kirk Kerkorian said he intends to more than double his stake in the world’s largest automaker.
Full story link including stock graph at end to see what GM has done over the past year.
http://www.marketwatch.com/new.....eid=google
Did you see Wall Street….buy and sell off the parts.
25
Another example of Pudding Brains shooting from the lip — and getting the facts wrong. Pudster, you aren’t going to have ANY credibility on this blog if you keep doing like this! Why do you peel stuff off the ceiling? Are you too fucking lazy to do 5 minutes of research before posting?
Donna you calling the kettle pork? Donna did you read my later post? Donna, still smarting over the Senate report on intelligence? Butt that’s right, one need to have intelligence to read intelligence. Good to see your head has finally left your ass. But that’s right you have AssFacia. Assfacia what’s that? It’s a common malady of MoveOn.pork readers where their ass looks like their face and their bowels don’t know which way to move!!!
Oh, I liked the comments from PacMan. In case you all missed them here is what PacMan commented to Donna on: Donnageddon, the wise man Desmond Tutu said “Don’t raise your voice, Improve your argument”. I say that to you this morning. Another wise person Krissy said:” A friend tells you what you want to hear, but a best friend tells you the truth.” Last but not least Zoe Calder said: “An unaware person lives in the past, mentally experiencing all the things that might have happened, but didn’t.” Donnageddon, that has you written all over it.
Pudster–
One other place I am investing bucks is a company that makes crying towels. I need to look up the symbol. They have pretty pathetic sales right now…but once Judge Bridges sets aside this election, the LEFTIST pukes will make this company the next Microsoft. My only concern is that LEFTISTS never want to pay for anything themselves. They will get Gregoire to rush thru some welfare program to fund crying towels for these losers.
danw–@42–
Moron…if I had insider trading info, don’t you think I’d buy more than 1000 shares??
Leave it to you danw to think small and be a paranoid conspiracy theorist at every turn.
Perhaps the thinking small part comes from your extreme case of dickydo disease. You do know what dickydo disease is, don’t you danw??
Alan & Steve, you are right, absolutely right. I should have taken the time to look at who was govenor in this state from the late 70’s. The only Repub govenor I ever heard about in a state as liberal as this was Dixy Lee Ray. Remember, I lived in NY and under Mario’s tax tyranny. I had no idea that Dan Evans was one of us. I had no idea that WA state voted for another Republican govenor. I apologize for sloppy govenor work and to you Alan, great barrister that you are I apologize.
Now that we have cleared the air on govenorships, what about my other arguments? WHy can’t liberals meet half way on energy issues. I thought the great white flight from the cities in the 70’s was so they could have white ‘burb enclaves where they felt at home. Since it seems that they now live in the ‘burbs and drive their SUVs and the soccer moms overwhelmingly voted for Bill Clinton, they must be gas guzzling, energy wasting democraps, eh?
Cynical: Crying towels? I like that. Maybe we can invent a super absorbent one for them? For the DanW comment: I had three friends who worked for a company in Everett, who bought a competitors company stock. The competitor was bought three days later by their company. The SEC did investigate them and found that they had their purchase approved as they had no clue about the purchase. I doubt that Cynical knew that the big corporate raider was going to buy GM stock!!!! Butt another good mud sling.
Pudster
Jeff B @20,
What did I say? All did was point out how GM has had its head up of its ass, refusing to acknowledge that gas prices could influence purchasing decisions, and now they are reaping the rewards for their mismanagement. As Toyota and Honda have been focusing on increasing fuel efficiency up and down their product line (you can buy a hybrid Accord!) GM has its engineers busily trying to figure out how to make the Hummer even heavier. We may not be at it yet, but at some point in the near future we will reach peak oil production, and when we start sliding down the other side of the curve, dramatically rising fuel prices will quickly push the average trip to the filling station into triple digits.
Of course, as GM continues its steady decline, they’ll blame it on high labor costs, and the need to slash health care benefits — and you’ll chime right in — while never, ever admitting that management totally fucked up.
That’s all I was implying Jeff… GM’s management sucks.
Cynical;
I am sure you only bought 999 shares, the number you thought you could get away with. But unlike the anonymous tips about pedophiles coming from the right, the SEC loves anonymous tips. Especially when you tell them that the Vice President of a PAC group that lives off Guvment rebates, probably shared this with the others on the board. This ought to be great, gotta go and earn my $1,000 bucks from Crimestoppers….Cynical you are actually right. Working on a computer is a much easier way to make a living, then actually doing labor or producing anything other then state rebates…How are those safety training class’s going for those laborers you live off of going?
Goldy–
I’m a happy recent GM shareholder.
Sounds like sour grapes Goldy…whatsamatta, you don’t own any GM stock???
My sell order just came thru @ 32.90/share.
Let’s see…I bought the 1000 shares @ 26.50………..
So I made $6,400 (minus commissions, of course) in 6 days.
Cool!
I love GM Goldy.
Now danw you little guv’mint worker slut…be nicer to me.
Guv’mint workers like you depend on guys like me to pay taxes to support your meaningless efforts at social-engineering.
I know you are jealous and filled with bitterness at the success of others.
As far as labor goes…I’m just finishing building another rental house. That’s where I was all morning. I’m going to rent it below market value to a single mom (my wife’s idea).
I think what drives LEFTIST PINHEADS like danw crazy is the stereotype they paint folks who are RIGHT with doesn’t track with reality. Frustrating, isn’t it danw? danw wants desperately someone more successful than he is (which is pretty much everyone!) that he can demonize and vilify. Feels good, doesn’t it danw??? And when the danw’s don’t have a boogieman, they create another one….otherwise they are even more dysfunctional.
So danw…did your court appointed psychiatrist give you a lollipop after your visit today??
What? I am supposed to get a lollipop? I sure hope the new taxes get those lollipops back. (don’t begrudge me that Cynical)
You need to listen to more Ed Schultz, he too had a bright wife that brought him back from the darkside. The wife sounds like good people, Kinda like a reverse Carville/Matlin relationship over there.
PS Hope no one got hurt building your rental house, without safety training, it’s just dumb luck at that point.
OK. Just a few points to follow up from my last message. Did I mention to go buy the Economist? Really. Do it. It’s five bucks and has more useful information per page than any other news magazine printed in English.
Some highlights:
The price of oil is being pushed up by some temporary things (an unsustainable purchase of oil by China due to economic overheating and a domestic coal shortage, and an oil exploration drought), some permanent things (all the big existing oilfields are pretty much at capacity), and some things that are managable, but not immediately (like there hasn’t been a new refinery built in the last 30 years), and yes, people are speculating on oil prices right now.
The big pinch is on the supply side. Nobody is finding any new oil fields to replace the ones that are running dry. Yeah, yeah, exploration goes on, oil shows up in the darndest places, but the last big round of finding new oil sources was after the last oil shock in the late sixties and early seventies. That opened up Alaska and the North Sea for those with short memories.
The reason isn’t a bug surprise. Looking for oil in new locations is expensive. It costs billions of dollars to look for new oil. Unlike other multi-billion dollar enterprises (say, building airplanes or major software packages), you sometimes wind up spending the exploration and lease money only to find that there’s no oil. (Google on “mukluk oil” for an illustrative lesson).
Also remember that just a few short years ago, oil was selling for $10/barrel. Petroleum companies (at least publicly traded ones), are like any other company. They like their financial statements boring. Drill for oil, oil comes from the well, money comes to the company.
An oil company’s second-worst nightmare (besides paying for leases and exploration to find that there’s no oil), is to find oil at the same time that market demand slumps and there are no buyers. Shareholders get bitchy when they hear that you have reserves that will be highly profitable in a few years once the price of oil goes up again. They like real dollars, not potential dollars. Ask any former dot-com employee, they’ll sympathize.
For better or worse, the consensus is that oil prices are high and will stay high. This means that money is being broken loose to start looking for oil further afield.
Another salient point. Most of the world’s oil is not in the hands of the big oil companies. There’s a cool table that shows the world’s largest oil companies by barrels of reserves held. ExxonMobil (EEEEEVIL BIG OIL!), ranks a piddling #13 on the list, headed up by the state-owned oil companies of Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Venezuela, Libya, etc. etc.
What this means is that the real monster fields are locked up forever. No quantity of anti-environmental legislation or regime change will open them up.
There’s also a nifty graph that shows projected oil production for the next 10 years or so. The curve (consumption) continues to rise for the forseeable future. What is telling is how much of the rise comes from “new sources of oil” (i.e. places that haven’t been drilled, or in some cases, even found yet). Existing sources + recovery techniques, that is, figuring out how to get the last of the oil out of old wells, pretty much follow the “peak oil” curve that has been used to scare you to death for the last few years.
How realistic is that? I have no geological training, so I can’t say. Maybe the promise of $40/barrel forever will show that oil is more plentiful than we once thought.
Pudster~
Couple things. There’s this great website called Google. If you go to Google and type in “Washington governors”, you will discover a treasure trove of information, including the fact that Dixie Lee Ray was a Democrat.
As to energy issues, what does white Republicans fleeing to the suburbs have to do with meeting you halfway on energy issues?
JSA, that was enlightening. I wonder who will take the Economist on now their myths are debunked. Big Evil Oil makes high profits. No most of the money goes to Joe stockholder, or to research and exploration, or to the holders of the oil, the Middle Eastern shieks. Teh reason they pay the shareholder is to lower their tax burden. Oh no, big oil not paying their fair tax share. Shut up! Many of the things you take for granted like the keys you type your messages on are from petroleum products.
I remember years ago when oil was $28/barrel when the oil companies said it was unprofitable to drill for oil. When I was in South Africa, My wife and I visited a gold mine with some friends. There were shafts no longer being mined. Me, being inquisitive asked why were those shafts closed? They said the price of gold was so low that the cost of mining those shafts was too high for the amount of gold left in the rock. It’s the same thing for any economic adventure.
I say to all the environmentalists, use your bikes, good for you. Don’t use electricity to run your PC, or oil or gas to heat your home, just jog in place or use the sun to heat the home. Stop using all of the necessities that you depend on alternative sources of energy beyond the sun or running water in the stream outside the home or wind power.
I go behind the wife and kids turning off lights and applicances when not in use. I do conserve, but some requests are outrageous.
Pudster
Poodlepiss @ 44 “Donna did you read my later post? Donna, still smarting over the Senate report on intelligence?”
Why yes I did, Poodlepiss, and they agsain contained NOTHING You couldn’t quote any of the 911 commission report or the Senate report before I showed how they dismissed your lie.
And geuss what, even after that you ddid not post a single fact from either reports.
Oh, and PacLunch is a real authority on nothing. He as well was left licking his ass to quell the sting.
You still haven’t learned much PP, you come into another thread unprepared but filled with wingnut opinions you heard from a right wing liar on the radio.
A troll is a troll where ever he may go.
First I put the govenorships to rest. I said I should have gone to Google, butt I didn’t I told you and Alan I was wrong. Who said they were white Rebublicans? I said they were white democraps. They voted for Bill Clinton, a Republican? Hasten that thought.
Yes I own a SUV, the same on for five years. Butt, I didn’t vote for Billy boy. We use it for long trips. My neighbors, all democraps own rolling houseboats save one family. I don’t. They also own SUVs, again save one family. So I ask you who is at the gas trough with gas guzzlers? I also own a 30 mile to gallon car. We had a talk with one neighbor and he says the taxes keep going up. Once my sons graduate from high school, I’m out of here, to another state, warmer without runaway state taxes.
Pudster
Poodlepiss, Please tell us your sons are twins and are Seniors in High School!
Poodlepiss, Please tell us your sons are twins and are Seniors in High School!
Hey Donna you are a revisionist, living just as Calder said, living as an unaware person lives in the past, mentally experiencing all the things that might have happened, but didn’t.. Go back to May 2nd and look at the posting times. I told you to look after Conclusion 85. Then you post your blind, fanatical MoveOn.pork swill on two points skipping over 6 points. You still dwell on the 9/11-Osama-Saddam connection WHICH I NEVER SAID THERE WAS ANY!!! You didn’t read the whole report you downloaded the conclusions report, the “Cliff Notes” of the report. Get it?
The name is Puddybud, or shall I start calling you DonnaWhore? Implement what Dr. Tutu said, for your sanity and stop living as Calder said! You need to visit a shrink, revisionist.
Pudster
Hey DonnaWhore: NO and NO. So you lose. I’ll be around to correct your lies and innuendoes for a while yet.
Pudster
Puddy Oreily
You still dwell on the 9/11-Osama-Saddam connection WHICH I NEVER SAID THERE WAS ANY!!!
Goldy, this is probably the only time I almost agree with some of your premise. I have travelled around the world almost 10 times in my life and have seen and heard many things. This issue I have with the argument that Bush rushed us to war is:
1.) The democrats said go to the UN – We did
2.) The democrats said ask other countries – Jordan, Eqypt, Russia, Italy, Germany, UK & others said Saddam had WMD.
3.) The UN said Saddam didn’t destroy them all. The UN said there are missing documents. Now some UN people think they (WMDs) went to Syria. It’s in the Darfour and Senate reports but the MSM will NOT report that. I have read some of the reports have you Goldy?
4.) The senate report and the 911 commission both said there WAS a connection to Saddam and Osama. Read the report Goldy. Can you read anything not associated with democrats? Just because the MSM doesn’t report it, it’s not true? Come on that’s transparent!!!
5.) The asseshorses who agree with you need to read more. France & Russia sold weapons against the UN sanctions of 1998. I bet you didn’t read about the M1-A1 or M1-A2 Abrams tank anti-tank missles they found from France and Russia in large stockpiles in crates dated 2002. But again the NYS the SP-I, the WAPost, are your papers of record.
Finally, I do agree something was amiss in the CIA. But thank ex-senator Torricelli who passed that stupid law gutting the CIA back in 1995. Forgot that too right Goldy?
Talk to me Goldy.
Pudster
Comment by Puddybud— 5/3/05 @ 8:27 am
And where in that wonderful email missive did I say Saddam was linked to Osama on 9/11?
DOH!, Danw is another DonnaWHole “Troll”?
Pudster
I meant to say DonnaWhore
Pudster
Oh I get it they were linked, but not on 9/11….you are a plain dumshit….check out the percentage of your Ilk that Think Saddam WAS involved with 9/11….and we wonder why an Idiot like Bush could get elected…you make me understand why.
Danw @ 64 It is worse than that, Poodlepiss actually claimed that Saddam and Osama were connected. The implication was the justification for the Iraq Quagmire.
Poodlepiss is a dishonest, shit for brains Troll who is an embarressment for more intelligent Trolls.
And he never bothered to quote any of the 911 reports because he knows they would not have helped his lie. What a FREAK!
I agree with you Danw that there was a rush to Osama/Saddam/9-11 by some people. I never said that and never held that. You and DonnaWhore decided that I by inference must think that way. What is that called “Giult by Association”? Well “dumshit” as you say about yourself, you are another MoveOn.porker. Everything they say about Republicans is true, no matter if you read something different from another Republican it JUST CAN”T BE TRUE!!!
Butt that being said why would I vote for a REAL ijit like Al “I invented the Internet” Gore when most of us in the working Internet world know Vin Cerf and Don Postel did most of the heavy work on the Internet? Then why would I vote for another real ijit like John “I have no internal core” Kerry? My core beliefs are antithetical to those “men”, so I voted the other way. If I remember the NYT and other newspapers, in their back rooms they said thank God Bush is in the White House, butt then again you forgot that too.
NUFF SAID!!!!
Pudster
Puddybud @ 54:
I’m not exactly sure which myths were being put to rest. Is Big Oil making record profits now? Yes, they sure are. They’re just not the only organizations that are making big profits.
Are publicly traded companies required to maximize their profitability, and avoid high-risk, high-reward adventures in the process? Yep. It’s called “fiduciary responsibility”.
Is the Big Price Runup of 2005 a sign that we’ve hit Hubbert’s mythical peak? Nope. It’s a sign that China has been buying a lot of oil but they probably will not continue to do so, at least not yet. This doesn’t mean that gas won’t stay expensive. Quite the contrary, it probably will. Don’t expect buck fifty a gallon gas again for a looooong time.
It’s fun and easy to create straw men. Watch! All lefties are closet Earth First!ers. Lefties are all are laughing themselves silly at the rise in gas prices. We know that one day, the oil will just suddenly stop coming from the ground and everyone will go back to walking around, riding bicycles and driving electric cars powered by magic faerie dust. We also secretly want soc-yi-al-ism to envelop the United States and force everyone into slavery to the State.
Righties are all brainwashed born-again Christians. They have only one book in their house, the Holy Bible, and they don’t know how to read that one correctly. Righties all want to pave the Earth as fast as possible, and pollute the ocean, and go hell bent for leather because who cares! The Rapture will come in the next few years and the Faithful will be lifted away to Heaven!
Quit beating up on people and focus on the real.
PooodlePiss “My core beliefs are antithetical to those “men”, so I voted the other way.”
You voted the other way because you are a sheeple. Every post you make demonstrates that you cannot think for yourself. Why did you say
“The senate report and the 911 commission both said there WAS a connection to Saddam and Osama. Read the report Goldy. Can you read anything not associated with democrats? Just because the MSM doesn’t report it, it’s not true? Come on that’s transparent!!!”
If you did not think the reports found a connection between Saddam and Osama? I have already proven that the reports said nothing of the sort USING THE REPORT ACTUAL WORDS!
You are a dishonest windbag, and someday you are going to pop leaving nothing but a resounding foul smell in the air.
Sonofabitch!!!
I sold that 1,000 shares of GM @ 32.90 and it closed at 32.95 (AND TRADED AS HIGH AS 32.96).
I cost myself $50 by not putting that sell order in at 32.95.
DAMN! DAMN! DAMN!!!!
For all of you who are still rational and who don’t want to have a 9.5 cent per gallon gas tax hike with the proceeds going mostly to a complete rebuild of the Alaskan Way Viaduct, go here and sign the petition and make a donation:
http://www.nonewgastax.com/
DonnaWhore: You need to go back to your ranch outside of Las Vegas. What planet do you live on? I think for myself, and I just proved it. Butt I do read, and in your blodshot drunken eyes, you must be seeing double.
What I wrote I believe, what you translate well I can’t help you. I only reported what even the great Carl Levin in the Senate said was in the report I hope you know who Carl Levin is?
Pudster
Poodle piss, for the last time, what part of:
From the 911 commission Chapter 2 page 66
“But to date we have seen no evidence that these or the earlier contacts ever developed into a collaborative operational relationship. Nor have we seen evidence indicating that Iraq cooperated with al Qaeda in developing or carrying out any attacks against the United States.”
and from the Senate Report conclusion 99
“Despite four decades of intelligence reporting on Iraq, there was little useful intelligence collected that helped determine the Iraq regime’s possible links to al-Quida”>/strong>
Those are the exact words from the reports you slimy cretin! Can you freaking read or not. Get it! No “connection” between Saddam and Osama, you mentally challenged freak!
You lied, I proved it. Now quit embarrassing your self. The facts are right there! If you would only open your eyes and read the freaking words from the reports themselves.
Again did I “SAY THERE WAS A CONNECTION ON THE 9/11 ATTACK” No. Now I have become a cretin. Hey DingleBerry, I said you also need to go to the full report, BUTT NOOOOOOOOOOO! Too much reading for the small mind of DonnaWhore.
Conclusion 91 “The Cnetral Intelligence Agancy’s (CIA) Assessment that Iraq had maintained ties to several secual Palestinian terrorist groups and with the Mujahidin -e Khalq was supported by intelligence…” Who are the M -e K – Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi – Al_Qaeda DOH! He later change the groups name.
Conclusion 92 “The Central Intelligence Agency’s examination of contacts, training, safe haven and operational cooperation as indicators of a possible Iraq-Al-Q relationship was a reasonable and ojbective approach to the question.” DOH
Conclusion 93 “The Central Intelligence Agency reasonably assessed that there were likely several instances of contacts between Iraq-Al-Q throughout the 1990s, but that these contacts did not add up to a established formal relationship.” DOH
Conclusion 94 “The Central Intelligence Agency reasonably and objectively assessed in Iraqi Support for Terrorism that the most problematic area of contact between Iraq and Al-Q were the reports of training in the use of non-conventional weapons, specifically chemical and biological weapons.” DOH
Conclusion 95 “The Central Intelligence Agency’s assessment of safehaven – that AL-Q or associated operatives were present in Baghdad and in northeastern Iraq in an area under Kurdish control – was reasonable.” Double DOH: DOH DOH
Conclusion 97 “The Central Intelligence Agency’s judgment that Saddam Hissein, if sufficiently desperate, might enploy terrorists with a global reach – AL-Q to conduct terrorist attacks in the event of war, was reasonable.” DOH
Conclusion 98 “The Cantral Intelligence Agency’s (CIA) assessments on Iraq’s links to terrorism were widely disseminated… Means the domocraps knew about this and when interviewed, Senators Jay Rockefeller & Carl Levin admitted he had seen this intelligence report way before this report was written. DOH
So 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 98 are there for all of you to see.
Butt there is more:
Conclusion 103 “The information provided by the CIA for the terrorism portion of Secretary Powell’s speech was carefully vetted by both terrorism and regional analysts.” DOH
Conclusion 104 “None of the portrayals of the intelligence reporting included in Secretary Powell’s speech differed in any significant was from earlier assessments published by the CIA” DOH
I said links between the two
DonnaWhore: I have to perform your due diligence too?
The Report –
1.) Training of A-Q by Iraq – Training them on Iraqi soil
2.) Use of Iraq as a SafeHaven by A-Q – The killer of Laurence Foley in Syria was a close associate of Abu Zarqawi & Zarqawi was given free reign in Iraq
Contacts Between the Iraqi Regime and A-Q
3.) Iraqi Regime Knowledge of A-Q Presence in Northeastern Iraq
4.) Reporting about Activity at Salman Pak – A-Q Practice facility
DonnaWhore do I need to provide more to say there were LINKS between Saddam and A-Q?
When you are ready to stop your insanity, let me know.
Pudster
My Dear Poodlepiss. You fucking moron. all the conclusions you stated where that the inference by the CIA was “reasonable”. It does not state that they actually happened, because in Conclusion 99 it negates all that stuff as being KNOWN TO HAVE HAPPEND. Why don’t you get you head out of your ass, get a dictionary, or have someone explain the wordds to you!
from the Senate Report conclusion 99
“Despite four decades of intelligence reporting on Iraq, there was little useful intelligence collected that helped determine the Iraq regime’s possible links to al-Quida”
You’ll never get away from the facts Poodlepiss. They will haunt your right-wing deluded mind forever.
Now you can play games with yourself from now on.
DingleBerry DonnaWhore, read the cotton-picking report. The reports give actual factual documented contacts. I gave four to you, butt you ignored them. Butt your simple mind is so simple that you can’t read. You live on MoveOn.pork. When you stop sucking their pork maybe the mind will clear.
That conclusion was for 9/11 connection and if Saddam was using A-Q for his purposes you jackass. If I am so stupid, why did the chairman and vice chairman go on to Sunday news shows and & say:
Transcript from a show. You find it. I did.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Well, we were worried — “we” meaning the editorial “we” of the whole country — was Iraq becoming a safe haven for, say, any jihadist group, more particularly in regards to Al Qaeda.
Were they in contact? Yes.
Were they a safe haven? Yes, you have Mr. Zarqawi and others, more especially up in the northwest part, where they made ricin.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
That’s all I said, contacts & links. Again in print. BUTT YOU, when your friends look in your eyes, see neon lights flashing “VACANCY” just are too vacuum laden to comprehend. I said there were links. THATS’ALL.
Don’t you think your side wanted to make Bush look bad? Of course, you had Levin and Feinstein on the committee rabid anti-Bushers. So after the other conclusions, there was red meat thrown to your side.
John Rockefeller – Democratic Vice-Chair said in his own letter:”There was no formal relationship between Iraq and al-Qaeda and there was no evidence of Iraqi complicity or assistance in al-Qaeda terrorist attacks, including 9-11.”
Hey DingleBerry, NEITHER DID I say there was a formal relationships. I SAID THERE WERE LINKS. WOMAN YOU ARE SO LOONY & STUPID!!! Stop projecting what I said to what you thought I said.
Have a great day. Go get some sunshine, as you have been inside too much.
Pudster
Goldy, what did we do to get puddybird? Then again, ‘all is not fair in love and WAR’
It’s Puddybud, but bird will suffice if needed.
I wanted to provide a real view not the constant drivel you read here everyday. Also because I take the hard view, provide a different opinion, I push your buttons.
Thats’ life huh. I don’t visit MoveOn.pork because you all proved to me what a really warped reality you all have. I bet you:
Support pie throwing at conservatives in colleges. What if we threw eggs, tomatoes at Ward Churchill?
Shutting up of people who disagree with you. Is that the Free flowing of ideas?
More forthcoming.
Pudster
bird @ 77, you do a good job shutting up people here. I am sure most people stop by, see you shit load of ‘non descript’ posts and just pass the whole thread by. You stated ‘,b. Shutting up of people who disagree with you. Is that the Free flowing of ideas? ‘ No it is not the free flowing of ideas, it is the current norm for GWB and his ‘townhall meetings’
Drivel: I am so sorry. I guess I’ll take my maarbous (Major League – Cerrento) and play in the major leagues!!!
Pudster
AllHatandNoHorse –
A Liberal?
Aligned with Nuclear Power?
Very Cool!
The elimination of greenhouse gases,
the corresponding reduction in acid rain,
the safety of new fluidized bed designs,
the ability to reprocess a breeder cycle (i.e., limited waste)
should we gather the political will to do so,
all adds up to a winning combination for our future.
Hey SillyPuddy almost everywhere,
You fucking illiterate twit. “BUTT” is an ASS, a type of JOINT, or a BUMP. The homophone “BUT” is a conjunction. You really ought to know your “ass” from your “however.” Dolt!
dj-
Did it ever occur to you their is a specific meaning behind every BUTT? Think about it.
Mr. Cynical @ 84
“Did it ever occur to you their is a specific meaning behind every BUTT? Think about it.”
Indeed! What would Freud say?
Hey Cynical… I haven’t checked the ticker yet today, but how’s your GM stock doing after today’s news: “S. & P. Cuts Debt Ratings for G.M. and Ford to Junk Status“
Goldy @86 – GM did very well today. How ironic.
Seriously, the decline of G.M., the loss of American Manufacturing Jobs, the American love affair with imports, it all has to end.
There won’t be any more manufacturing jobs to lose.
Less prosperity, a growing educational gap, the world’s first industrialized third world nation.
Not much to laugh about is it Goldy? What about our children? What about your daughter? She deserves a bright future. We need to bring back American competitiveness. We can do this. We just need to try.
As soon as we can compete with $3/ day wages, we”ll all have a brighter future right?
DigginDude – No. That problem has been around since the dawn of time. There will always be some place with a lower cost of labor. What we need to do is to get our heads in the game. Do you think the average Japanese autoworker makes $3 per hour? And yet the Japanese products are intensely competitive.
Think –
A cohesive industrial and export policy
Improved Intra-Company Working Relationships (U.S.A. Keiretsu)
Real support for American manufacturing efforts (tax code)
Learn from / copy / benchmark our competition (compete)
Encourage Americans to purchase products made in America (patriotism).
Improved and more efficient education system (the lynchpin).
What will our legacy be?
Those are great sounding ideals/ideals, but not supported by republicans, or corporations.
The japanese are, and have always been supported/subsidised, by government.
In this country, the government seems to go out of its way, to help the company fuck the working guy out of something.
As soon as you start talking about government working with business and labor, to promote an employment base, you get accused of being a socialist.
I think we need stronger support in education, but lets face it, someone has to dig ditches, and pick up the trash.
I heard today, bush is pushing for large cuts in agricultural research.
I may be wrong, but given the need for renewable energy research, isn’t this sending the wrong message?
I really feel the future of mankind, hinges on renewable energy production, and i can see a large portion of the population of the planet working in an energy related field at some point in the future.