In the weeks leading up to the Connecticut primary, Republicans described Democratic challenger Ned Lamont’s anti-war position as “extreme” and “out of touch” with mainstream America. In the days after Lamont soundly beat three-term Democratic incumbent Sen. Joe Lieberman, Republicans described Connecticut voters as “extreme” and “out of touch” with mainstream America.
But looking at recent national public opinion polls, it seems that it is the Republicans who may be extreme and out of touch.
Indeed, a new Elway Poll commissioned by the Seattle Times confirms that there is widespread support amongst Washington voters for either an immediate or timed withdrawal of troops from Iraq, with half of all respondents choosing one of those options… though only 21 percent of Republicans.
But the crosstabs are even more revealing. 19 percent of WA voters support immediate withdrawal — 27 percent of Democrats and 22 percent of independents — but only 5 percent of Republicans support this option.
So, um… who’s out of the mainstream here?
In fact, only 66 percent of WA Republicans support President Bush’s stated position of leaving only when Iraqis can keep the peace (which of course, could mean never,) and it is curious to note that in a recent Survey USA poll, that’s exactly the same percentage of Republicans who plan to vote for Republican Mike!™ McGavick in his lightly contested US Senate primary.
Hmm.
Early on, the press glommed on to the state Democrats’ supposedly divisive split over the Iraq war as the big story in the Senate race, yet the same poll shows Sen. Maria Cantwell garnering 90 percent of the vote in her much more high profile primary contest.
I’m sure that some of this disparity can be explained away by Mike!™’s lower name ID, but it begs the question: has the press been focusing on a bitterly divisive split in the wrong party?
” … may be …”? All my life, the Far Right has been regarded by nearly everyone (except the Far Right) as the “extreme” element of the GOP and “out of touch” with reality.
Now that they’ve succeeded in driving the respectable moderate elements out of the GOP, the entire Republican Party is “extreme” and “out of touch” with reality.
The GOP is now the anti-science, anti-reason, lemmings-over-the-cliff party. Trouble is, they want to take the rest of us with them in their mad rush to the Rapture.
Me — I can’t wait for the Rapture to get here! POW!! 144,000 Republicans gone in a flash of light and puff of smoke!!! That’s not enough, but it’s a start.
There is indeed a big split in the GOP between the neo-cons and almost everyone else. We’re seeing it become more open and public lately, but it’s been around for a while now. George Will’s recent column is just the most high-profile example, with the possible exception of Scarborough’s “Is Bush and ‘Idiot'” segment the other day. They see that the administration’s policies are failures and want to distance “true” conservatism from the GOP’s screw-ups. This split hasn’t gotten much media attention until now, but it will, as more Democrats effectively make the points you make in your post.
What can Democrats do about it, aside from just talking about it? It appears that the most important thing for Democratic candidates in the mid-term elections will not be motivating the base – we’re there – it will be getting the independents to the polls. Opinion poll after opinion poll has demonstrated that independents agree overwhelmingly with the Dems, and the MyDD discussion of the CA-50 exit polls and post-election polls shows that if we get the independents to vote in November, we’ll win big.
RightWingNuts just don’t get it. They are the most stubborn, egotistical, unbending mindless creatures on earth. I see no difference, other that their proximity to my home, between them and the Taliban or the “Islamic extremists” they keep screaming about. This my way or the highway shit gets old. The American public will speak in November and then, and only then, will the Republicans listen. And then only because they are forced to.
Carl Grossman
Liberal, Democrat, Patriot and patiently waiting to vote in November.
Roger,
Virtual carrots for you today. Enjoy!!!!
Carl Grossman
Liberal, Democrat, Animal Lover (though in the emotional sense only)
Barry Goldwater’s widow once said that he’d turn over in his grave if he ever knew what the taliban wing of the GOP has done to the republican party. They aren’t conservatives according to the founder of the conservative movement. And they’ve preached a gospel of hate that has the world at the brink of war. Anyone who thinks that kind of thing happens without some dissent in their own ranks is lazy or crazy. But the media is so used to cow-towing to the GOP spin machine that it never reports that kind of stuff.
Question for All: Who said it first? McGavick or Cantwell?
Who was the first to say that he/she would not have voted for the Iraq War Resolution knowing what he/she knows now? Was it McGavick or Cantwell?
With opinion this fragmented, everybody is out of touch. (Similar results in the CONnecticut Q-poll, BTW.)
There’s no consensus on Iraq.
There’s no easy answers.
There’s probably no easy questions.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14393611/
Breaking news! Bush declared a lawbreaker AGAIN!
Now what you right wing taliban lovers gonna do? The greatest threat to our country isn’t from the Middle East or so-called terrorists, it’s from the Bush regime!
HERE! HERE! Left Turn @ 10.
Bush is probably hoping the Supreme Court will reverse, but there is no way that they can. One thing about Supreme court judges, they get kind of independant since they are appointed for LIFE.
Carl Grossman
yada, yada, yada
INDEPENDENT damn my fingers.
Carl Grossman
Lib, Dem, and sometimes crappy typist. (keyboardist, my daughter just corrected me)
The bottom is falling out for the winguts:
David Broder:
One of them said, “I’m afraid this could be another 1982,” a year when recession pushed unemployment to 15 percent and cost the Republicans the governorship. Another said, “I’d settle right now for another 1982. I’m afraid it will be another 1974,” the year of the Watergate election, when Democrats swept everything in sight.
Charlie Cook:
I received an e-mail from a friend who is a senior national political correspondent for a major national newspaper: “If I were an incumbent with the least bit of worries, I’d be pooping my pants.”
Rumbles on K Street:
But, in recent months, many of Washington’s top lobbyists said in interviews that their decision-making has been altered by an emerging consensus among election experts that the Democrats will boost their numbers in the House and the Senate in the midterm elections Nov. 7 and have a strong shot of winning a majority in the House.
I expect a death spiral of hate speech from our resident wingers as we approach November.
huh, I guess those Connecticut D’RATS are a tad “out of touch too…
“BOSTON (Reuters) – U.S. Sen. Joseph Lieberman, a three-term Democrat now running as an independent candidate, leads the man who beat him in last week’s primary vote by 12 points in a three-way race, a poll released on Thursday shows.
The latest Quinnipiac University poll, conducted between August 10-14, shows Lieberman leads Democrat Ned Lamont, a wealthy businessman with little political experience who has played on anti-war sentiment, by 53 percent to 41 percent among likely voters in November’s election.
Likely voters said by a 53 percent to 40 percent margin that Lieberman, the Democratic Party’s vice presidential candidate in 2000 and once a presidential candidate himself, deserves to be re-elected.
Riyadh – Saudi authorities arrested 20 young men after raiding a suspected gay wedding in the southern town of Jizan, a newspaper reported on Wednesday. The detainees, who were among some 400 men attending “the wedding party of two men” on Tuesday, had been “emulating women,” the Al-Watan paper said […………………………………………………………………………..Has anyone heard from GBS since these arrests? Hmmmmmm??]
Carl Grossman
Liberal, Democrat, Animal Lover
Commentby My Left Foot [Goats, cows or pigs?]
Rasmussen has released their review of all senate Races. Of note, Cantwell is listed as Safe Democratic, while there are only three Democrat seats that are in the Lean Democrat catagory, there is one Republican seat in the safe Democrat (Santorum), one in the lean Democratic (Chafee, who is about to be beat in his primary by outside the mainstream conservatives), and three in the toss up (Talent of MO, Burns of MT, and Mike “lets fake some photos) Dewine of OH), with one in the Lean GOP (Frist seat in TN).
Given the basic rule of thumb that Rasmussen leans 5 points to the GOP, things are shaping up for a good fall.
http://www.rasmussenreports.co.....fPower.htm
Carl Grossman
Liberal, Democrat, Animal Lover
Commentby My Left Foot [Goats, cows or pigs?] -Commentby Doctor JCH Kennedy— 8/17/06@ 11:20 am
NoLeftBrainandWishingHeHadaLeftNut is constant living proof that not all pigs have snouts.
In January, Hillary Clinton (D-N.Y.) remarked that Mahatma Ghandi used to run a gas station in St. Louis. [……………………………………………………………………………..JDB, care to discuss this quote. BTW, looks like Pud Kennedy took you behind the barn and gave you the ass kicking you needed. Hillary should not have called Dick Morris a “FUCKING JEW BASTARD”!!!]
John Craig:
We can always count on you to pick up on all the gay and anal sex issues. Obvioulsy, it is an issue close to your heart and anus.
The political battle for control of the federal government has opened up a new front: the obscure but vital state offices that determine who votes and how those votes are counted. The state post of secretary of State was a backwater until 2000, when Florida’s Katherine Harris became a central figure in the presidential recount controversy.–snip–…Democrats say they want people they trust in those offices.
In other words, they think they see a potential way to help them cheat more–or at least cover it up…
King County, WA Democrat plan always works: Keep counting till we win.
–Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything.–
– Josef Stalin
JDB, PUD Kennedy may just give you ANOTHER ass kicking!! He took you to the cleaners the last time out!
Hey Wingnuts:
A new group of military “traitors” are telling Shrub to fuhgetabout Iran.
WASHINGTON — Seeking to counter the White House’s depiction of its Middle East policies as crucial to the prevention of terrorist attacks at home, 21 former generals, diplomats and national security officials will release an open letter tomorrow arguing that the administration’s “hard line” has actually undermined U.S. security.
Why don’t you armchair Generals (like ASS and Wingnut Obsession Sucks) profess your deep faith in your Dear Leader to them? It’s so obvious you know what you’re talking about.
LMAO!
John Craig:
Did you read anything Wrong Boy posted? Not a single article of Hillary calling Dick Morris a “Jew Bastard.” And, again, you have yet to apologize for saying that she did, and for lying.
Why do you consider to lie, John Craig? It can’t just be the effects of the syphilis.
As for Hillary’s bad attempt at humor. It was justly criticised and she apologized (see, that is what people with honor do, JCH) for the comment. Unlike George Allen, she didn’t make up five different excuses.
Unlike you, she didn’t keep lying even when shown to be a fool.
John Craig:
Please post on post by Pud that contradicted my claim that Hillary never called Dick Morris a “Jew Bastard.”
Oh, that’s right, you can’t, because Wrongboy didn’t post anything that supported you. It would appear that you got reamed last night, and not just by one of your tricks.
While we are at it, I’m still waiting for you to post one citation to back up your claim that Hillary called Dick Morris a “Jew Bastard.”
Oh, that’s right, after two weeks, you have yet to be able to do so.
John Craig, you sad old queer, do you have any idea what truth is?
I once thought that JCH had posted a fact.
Then I realized that he called someone else a cocksucker.
“We must stop thinking of the individual and start thinking about what is best for society.” [Hillary Clinton, 1993]
“I’m not going to have some reporters pawing through our papers. We are the president.”
~~ Hillary Clinton
“Many of you are well enough off that…the tax cuts may have helped you. We’re saying that for America to get back on track, we’re probably going to cut that short and not give it to you. We’re going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good.” — Hillary Clinton [……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….JDB, Maybe you would like to comment on these Hillary quotes before PUD Kennedy kicks your pussy Democrat ass again!]
John Craig:
Have you been scarying children at Woodland Park again? That would explain why you are so grouchy of late:
[O]n Tuesday, officers in plainclothes returned to the location in lower Woodland Park. In a sting operation involving an undercover officer, police arrested four men after each one exposed himself to the officer. One man also offered to have sex for money and was arrested for investigation of prostitution.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/.....sex17.html
Were you wearing your sailor suit?
I guess we can see why you are this boards expert on anal sex and what to charge for a blow job.
PUD Kennedy 7…………….JDB 0 [End of the first quarter]
JDB: Democrat Tookie Williams: Democrat JDB: receiver of the “Tookie” 9 inch rectal “love” award!!!!…………………………. [Sorry, JDB, Not a Republican within miles of you Democrats!!!!]
“We must stop thinking of the individual and start thinking about what is best for society.” [Hillary Clinton, 1993] [……………………………………………………………………………………………………………..Right out of Karl Marx’s favorite “Manifesto For Dumb Ass Democrats Bedtime Stories”]
“I’m not going to have some reporters pawing through our papers. We are the president.”
~~ Hillary Clinton [……….JDB, “What did she know, and when did she know it?” hehe, JCH]
Please post on post by Pud that contradicted my claim that Hillary never called Dick Morris a “Jew Bastard.”
Commentby JDB […………………………………………………………………….JBD, GET THE QUOTE RIGHT!!!! Hillary used the term “FUCKING JEW BASTARD”!!!! You are hopeless!!]
JDB, I may have to call in PUD Kennedy to handle my light work again.
It’s the ALL ADULTS and INDEPEDENTS you nutburgers, traitors and America haters have to worry about…
CBS News Poll. Aug. 11-13, 2006. N=974 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3 (for all adults).
“Do you approve or disapprove of the way George W. Bush is handling the campaign against terrorism?”
All Adults:
Approve 51%
Disapprove 43%
Unsure 6%
Republicans:
Approve 82%
Disapprove 15%
Unsure 3%
D’RATS and traitors:
Approve 26%
Disapprove 66%
Unsure 8%
Independents:
Approve 50%
Disapprove 43%
Unsure 7%
John Craig:
Still waiting for one post by you or Wrongboy where you cite a single instance of Hillary calling Dick Morris a “Jew Bastard.”
Just one.
You can count to one, can’t you JCH?
Just one.
If you don’t do it by your next post, we all will know that you are lying old queer without any honor to admit his mistakes.
Just one.
ProudtobeaLimbaugh:
Can’t rely on one poll, or you would see how bad it is for the GOP and Bush:
Last week’s news from London about a thwarted terrorist attack had little impact on public confidence in the War on Terror. Thirty-eight percent (38%) of American adults now say the U.S. and its allies are winning. That’s down a point from 39% earlier in August and down from 44% in July. Confidence that the U.S. and its allies are winning has never been lower than 38%.
Thirty percent (30%) of Americans now believe the terrorists are winning. That’s down from 33% earlier in the month but up from 26% in July.
http://www.rasmussenreports.co.....Update.htm
Well, it turns out that Bush was violating the constitution after all:
A federal judge ruled Thursday that the government’s warrantless wiretapping program is unconstitutional and ordered an immediate halt to it.
U.S. District Judge Anna Diggs Taylor in Detroit became the first judge to strike down the National Security Agency’s program, which she says violates the rights to free speech and privacy as well as the separation of powers enshrined in the Constitution.
http://www.npr.org/templates/s.....Id=5663676
Northwest Airlines to Laid-Off Employees: Try Dumpster Diving
Anyone still wondering why corporations are despised and there’s no employee loyalty left in American business?
http://tinyurl.com/edp4b
6
Why, thank you!!! Carrots are ALWAYS highly appreciated!!!
(crunch crunch crunch)
(crunch crunch crunch)
(crunch crunch crunch)
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
9
“With opinion this fragmented, everybody is out of touch.”
That’s a copout. Just because some people are confused or misled, doesn’t mean the rest of us are confused or misled.
Commentby RonK, Seattle— 8/17/06@ 10:47 am
“There’s no consensus on Iraq.
There’s no easy answers.
There’s probably no easy questions.”
I wholeheartedly agree. I think the Dems have been irresponsible in how the oppose the war. Calling Bush a Nazi or Stalin for example. Instead I’d like to see them lead. If it’s so clear Iraq is a mess, then they should propose what they would to do to clean it up. The Bush Administration needs to stop being so arrogant and admit that the war hasn’t gone as they have predicted and tell us what they are going to do to fix the situation, so our troops can come home.
by Goldy, 08/17/2006, 10:05 AM
“But the crosstabs are even more revealing. 19 percent of WA voters support immediate withdrawal – 27 percent of Democrats and 22 percent of independents – but only 5 percent of Republicans support this option.”
With Washington being a left leaning state, Democrats from this state hardly provide a good cross sample of the general voting public. Goldy you know this. Why are you so disengenuous?
Clearly the war is upopular, but a plurality of people of every political stripe don’t want an immediate withdrawl. I think most people realize the job isn’t done, and pulling out now would only increase the tragedy of the lives already lost. You can cry all you want that there shouldn’t have been a war in the first place, but the fact is, there is a war. We need to finish the job. We need to show we aren’t a paper tiger. More importantly, we need to give the Iraqi people the freedom we seem to take for granted.
21
yada yada yada — wingnut myth-making about KCRE “cheating” and Gregoire’s “stealing” the 2004 election have been debunked so many times it’s not worth discussing anymore.
bullshit … it’s all bullshit
Another millstone to hang around the wingnut’s necks:
George Felix Allen, the Senator running on a platform opposing “Macacas”.
Things we learned in the interview: 1. Sidarth was born and grew up in Fairfax County, Virginia. Senator Allen was born in California. So, Senator Allen — welcome to Virginia right back at you! 2. Sidarth was wearing a baseball cap on the day of the video, so the excuse that the Senator was referring to his hair (a mohawk he does not have) is dubious to say the least. 3. Sidarth never received a personal apology from Senator Allen. John Reid, Allen’s Senate communications director said, “The Senator has apologized sincerely and repeatedly over the last two days to the young man and to the public in general.” That’s not true. 4. “The welcome to America” line bothered Sidarth more because it implies that anyone who is a different ethnicity isn’t from America. 5. Senator Allen is a racist.
So Wingnuts, where do you stand? Do you stand with Senator Allen on his disdain for “macacas”?
Damn!
Commentby JDB— 8/17/06@ 12:01 pm
Actually the alleged slur was directed at Paul Fray and not Dick Morris.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.....troversies
“Several people have accused Clinton of making anti-Semitic comments or slurs. In the 2000 book State of a Union: Inside the Complex Marriage of Bill and Hillary Clinton by former National Enquirer reporter Jerry Oppenheimer, lawyer Paul Fray, who ran Bill Clinton’s failed 1974 run for Congress, claimed that after that defeat, Hillary Rodham, then Clinton’s girlfriend, raged that he (Fray) was a ‘F*cking Jew Bastard.’ [4] Fray’s wife and businessman Neil McDonald both claim to have witnessed this slur.” (expletive deleted)
Fray later apologized for things he has said about Clinton.
Here’s what Hillary Clinton allegedly said to Dick Morris:
“In a discussion of the Fray allegation, Dick Morris, a former political advisor to President Clinton, asserted that a couple of years previously, Hillary Clinton had used a Jewish stereotype during an argument about consulting fees, stating ‘Money – that’s all you people care about is money.’ [11]”
I’d guess that the people who believe Morris and Fray, and those who don’t, fall pretty closely along party lines. Personally I’d suspect Hillary has said a lot of things in anger she regrets. Beyond disagreeing with her on most issues, I don’t think she has a “Presidential Temperment”. I have the same criticism of McCain and Howard Dean.
So JCH, get your allegations straight.
42
“Clearly the war is upopular, but a plurality of people of every political stripe don’t want an immediate withdrawl. I think most people realize the job isn’t done, and pulling out now would only increase the tragedy of the lives already lost. You can cry all you want that there shouldn’t have been a war in the first place, but the fact is, there is a war. We need to finish the job. We need to show we aren’t a paper tiger. More importantly, we need to give the Iraqi people the freedom we seem to take for granted.” Commentby ConservativeFirst— 8/17/06@ 12:20 pm
Once again, you are misreading both the situation and the mood of the people, FascistFirst. For example, I don’t favor immediate withdrawal — but not for the reasons you assert. When Bush invaded Iraq, a country formerly run by a dictator hostile to Al Qaida, he opened a can of worms. As noxious as Saddam’s government was, at least it was a government; Iraq is now a failed state with no effective governance, and vulnerable to becoming another Afghanistan or Sudan — a strip of government-less territory where bandits, warlords, and terrorists can operate freely. If we precipitately pull out of Iraq, that country will be consumed by a civil war that will kill far more Iraqis than Saddam and his sons ever did, and more critically for our interests, will become a haven for terrorists. You can thank Bush for this sorry state of affairs. The man is a fucking idiot. We pay presidents to not make mistakes of this nature or magnitude. Admit it, your guy fucked up big-time, and young Americans are now paying the price of his stupidity and ignorance with their lives.
Bush’s bungled war is a reason to keep our troops in Iraq long enough to try to salvage something from Bush’s disastrous militar adventure undertaken on false pretenses, but is NOT a reason to keep the idiots who authored this fiasco in power.
The thing to do is fire the GOP fuckups, put grownups in charge, and let the Democrats supervise the damage control, body recovery, and toxic cleanup.
CF – I agree with you that Hillary Clinton wouldn’t be too good of a President. She’s smart like Bill and doesn’t have some of his colorful faults but doesn’t have nowhere near his political skills.
It’s going to take some formidable talent to lead us out of the mess we’re in.
The american people want closed borders, imiigration reform that does not include amnesty and also believes Iraq had WMDS.
WHich party is closer to these?
Lately…none of the above.
POLITICIANS are out of touch to the american people in general
Roger@47 When we create these cesspools through incompetence and misjudgement, westill have to deal with them. Somalia is Iraq writ small. We cannot afford to have Iraq become Somalia writ large.
Even now, we are having to mount naval operations off the coast of Somalia to counter a growing menace from pirates. Your point about having grownups in charge cannot be over emphasized. Cheney, Bush, and Rumsfeld are responsible for the total failure of our current policies in Somalia. We are driving the Islamic Warlords and Clan leaders firmly into the camp of Al-Quaeda and Qu’utists.
It is also telling, that what little naval presence we have off the coast of Somalia is due to the very active presence of the French and some well placed snarky remarks about holding up NATO responsibilities by the French.
ConservativeFirst:
Thank you. And I will acknowledge that you have posted that below, with the link to Wikipedia (as had LiberalRedneck long before I started demanding that JCH give a citation).
I will never say that Hillary is a saint (I am profoundly not a pro-Hillary Clinton person), but attack with substance, not innuendo and lies.
See, JCH, it is possible to be civil and right.
The traditional media with its head up its ass? Unthinkable!
Wingnuts:
Some in the White House are losing their religion:
Yet some outside experts who have recently visited the White House said Bush administration officials were beginning to plan for the possibility that Iraq’s democratically elected government might not survive.
“Senior administration officials have acknowledged to me that they are considering alternatives other than democracy,” said one military affairs expert who received an Iraq briefing at the White House last month and agreed to speak only on condition of anonymity.
“Everybody in the administration is being quite circumspect,” the expert said, “but you can sense their own concern that this is drifting away from democracy.”
You know what to do. Call on Karl Rove and your Dear Leader to purge the White House of all who do not truly believe.
Curious…all party BS aside, who do you all think actually has what we need leadership wise for the 2008 presidency?
54.Hillary’s worst nightmare…….[Condi/J. C. Watts 2008!!! I can hear the commie libs howling from 3000 miles awy!!!!!!!]
Curious…all party BS aside, who do you all think actually has what we need leadership wise for the 2008 presidency?
I’ve been moving steadily closer to Wes Clark’s camp for a while now. He’s smart, experienced, moderate, and he’s got balls the size of church bells.
This is from Juan Cole’s ‘Informed Comment’
It was such a stupid war. It was thick-as-two-blocks-of-wood strategy on all sides. It was moronic for the Israelis to plan it out last year. It was idiotic for Hizbullah to cross over into Israel, kill soldiers, and take two captive. It was brain dead for the Israeli officer corps and politicians to think they could get anything positive out of bombing Lebanon back to the stone age and making a million people homeless. It was dim-witted for Hasan Nasrallah to threaten Israelis with releasing poison gases from Haifa chemical plants on them. It was obtuse for the Israelis to confront a dug-in guerrilla movement with green conventional troops marching in straight lines. It was dull of Hizbullah to fire thousands of katyushas into open fields where they mainly damaged wild grass. The few times when the rockets managed to kill someone, it was often an Arab Israeli civilian. Stupid.
The Bush Regime desparately wants to expand the conflict in the Middle East. They want to knock out Iran. . .with its over a milllion man standing army, and neutralize Syria. And they seek to do this by encouraging Israel in this disastrous war? So far, we have welded new bonds between the National Unity Government of Lebanon and the Hizbullah. We have given Lebanon the opportunity to further separate themselves from the clutches of Syria and strengthened the ties of Hizbullah to Iran, their armorer. We have irretrievably damaged the image of Israel as an invincible military power, and raised Hizbullah to legendary status to over a billion muslims. Raising money to rebuild Lebanon may prove trivial with this kind of backing.
The final settlement will not disarm Hizbullah, merely mask their arms.
Sven:
Interesting question: At this point I really can not say. I don’t think the GOP will let him through, and I would worry about the Supreme Court, but Giuliani would not be a bad choice. I think he could be a uniter if his party let him. And a good leader. However, he is pro-choice and pro-gay, so while he probably gets JCH’s vote, he won’t get a lot of GOP votes.
For similar reasons, although he is a lot more moderate, McCain would be interesting. Unfortunately, he seems to be worried more about sucking up to the right wing now than leading.
Dream candidate for the GOP from a purely partisan perspective, George Allen (he makes Bush look smart), and/or anyone deeply tied into the Bush administration and the war in Iraq. Scariest would be McCain and/or Chuck Hagel (true conservatives that could lead).
For the Democrats, no one has me that excited. I would think that Al Gore could beat most Republicans other than Giuliani, McCain and Hagel, and it would be tight with all but Giuliani (although in the case of Giuliani, you would get a third party Conservative who might narrow the race). Gov. Mark Warner of VA would seem to be a good choice, and I think that Gov. Bill Richardson of New Mexico might be interesting also.
My current dream ticket for the Dems from a purely partisan perspective is Mark Warner/Barack Obama. You could easily see 16 years of Democratic rule from that. Scary ticket for the Dems, Hillary (to many emotions from to many people, and I think everyone and their dog is sick and tired of anyone named Bush or Clinton at this point), John Kerry or anyone that is purely anti-Iraq war and nothing else (to easy for the GOP assassination machine to overrun.)
Um Giuliani has more than a little bit of the whiff of corruption so typical of Republicans these days. He has a great deal of baggage to carry. Can you say Bernie Kerak?
The days of running a candidate with nothing more substantial than sound bites and video clips my be over.His part in the 9-11
is a two edged sword,especially these days.
Tree Frog Farmer:
Anyone in politics for any time what-so-ever will have a whiff of scandal about them. Go over to U(sp) and look how they are slandering Chief Justice Alexander without any proof. My point is that Giuliani is a proven leader and not a ideologue. He has plenty of dirt, but I think most of it will make the right upset far more than it makes the left upset.
My current dream ticket for the Dems from a purely partisan perspective is Mark Warner/Barack Obama.
Commentby JDB […………………………………………………………………………………………………..JDB..What is Barack’s middle name? BTW, I like “Osama Obama” because he likes SUVs, but not for everyone. Just for himself. hehe, JCH]
Condi/J. C. Watts 2008 [Can you see the look on Queen Hillary’s face??]
Commentby Roger Rabbit— 8/17/06@ 12:29 pm
“Once again, you are misreading both the situation and the mood of the people, FascistFirst.”
I thought name calling went out in 3rd grade. Aren’t you 60+?
“If we precipitately pull out of Iraq, that country will be consumed by a civil war that will kill far more Iraqis than Saddam and his sons ever did, and more critically for our interests, will become a haven for terrorists.”
“The thing to do is fire the GOP f*ckups, put grownups in charge, and let the Democrats supervise the damage control, body recovery, and toxic cleanup.” (expletive deleted)
So where are the Democratic proposals to fix the problems in Iraq? They don’t have any concrete proposals to fix the problems in the U.S., or abroad. Are we just supposed to trust them? Kerry was supposed to have a plan in 2004. He never revealed the details. That’s not the type of leadership that will solve a complex situation like we have in Iraq. Nice try Roger, but I think your faith in the Democrats to fix this situation is ill founded.
I do find it ironic that someone who often acts like a petulant child, has the temerity to imply that the members of the Bush Administration are children.
“In the days after Lamont soundly beat three-term Democratic incumbent Sen. Joe Lieberman, Republicans described Connecticut voters as “extreme” and “out of touch” with mainstream America.”
More confirmation:
http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x11362.xml?ReleaseID=948
“Connecticut Sen. Joseph Lieberman, running as an independent, gets 53 percent of likely voters, with 41 percent for Democratic primary winner Ned Lamont and 4 percent for Republican Alan Schlesinger, according to a Quinnipiac University poll released today.”
http://instapundit.com/archives/022551.php
READER C.J. BURCH EMAILS: “I grow more and more convinced the Republican majority will end itself by 2006 if the Left will just shut up for five minutes.”
65-“In the days after Lamont soundly beat three-term Democratic incumbent Sen. Joe Lieberman, Republicans described Connecticut voters as “extreme” and “out of touch” with mainstream America.”
Correction – The republicans have labeled the CT “democrat primary voters”, i.e. moonbats, as “extreme” and “out of touch” with mainstream America.
http://instapundit.com/archives/022551.php
READER C.J. BURCH EMAILS: “I grow more and more convinced the Republican majority will end itself by 2006 if the Left will just shut up for five minutes.”
Commentby JDB— 8/17/06@ 2:12 pm
“My current dream ticket for the Dems from a purely partisan perspective is Mark Warner/Barack Obama. You could easily see 16 years of Democratic rule from that. Scary ticket for the Dems, Hillary (to many emotions from to many people, and I think everyone and their dog is sick and tired of anyone named Bush or Clinton at this point), John Kerry or anyone that is purely anti-Iraq war and nothing else (to easy for the GOP assassination machine to overrun.)”
I like Warner (from an electability point of view). I think Obama would be a bad choice. Like Dan Quayle he’s not ready. Not enough seasoning yet to be VP. Gore, despite all his faults, had a long track record in the House and Senate. Obama has been in the Senate for less than two years. He was in a tight race until his opponent’s divorce records were unsealed. After that all he had to do was beat a far right wing opponent who didn’t even live in Illinois. He may yet prove to be a good candidate for higher office but he needs more time before it’s clear whether he’s ready or not. I think Richardson’s chances are pretty unlikely, I suspect he’ll run to build up his name recognition.
And thanks for the kudos on the Hillary controversy. Despite her ability to raise money, and her repositioning as a moderate, I think the Democrats have better candidates.
As you said, any one dimensional anti-war candidate won’t cut it.
I’m not a Guliani fan, I disagree with him personally on abortion, but I can’t deny his leadership qualities. From the Republican side I think he would be the best candidate stategically. McCain rubs too many people the wrong way. I can’t see Rice winning for the same reason. Powell has too many conservative idealogues mad at him. Jeb Bush can’t win, if only because of his last name.
I don’t think Guliani would draw a third party candidate. Whether it’s reality or not, conservatives still blame Ross Perot for getting Clinton elected (twice). I think, despite the low ratings of both the Democrats and Republicans, a third party needs to start winning city, county, and state elections to build a popular base to take on the entrenched parties.
Chuck Hagel’s the most electable Republican. Hell, I even respect the guy. Fortunately, the fringers on the Republican right (which is most of the party now) would never permit him to be the GOP nominee.
52-48. Yes, that is a sound defeat! Try again!
Conservativefirst:
I would generally agree with you that Obama would need a little more seasoning, but I think that after Dick Cheney, a little less experience might help. Obama is dynamic, and would not have a lot of negatives. Given the ultimate importance of turnout in a 50/50 country, if it is still that close in two years, he would be worth the shot. You also have a very nice balance (VA and IL, South and North, etc.). If this comes down to an election of tenths of a percentage, it wouldn’t be a bad choice. Also, it would keep the dems pretty united.
I tend to agree with the rest of your analysis, although I think you underestimate the reaction to a Giuliani candidacy by the far right. If an pro-gay pro-choice candidate is at the top of the GOP ticket, there will be a third party dixiecrat like ticket from the South.
You are probably right about McCain having too many people who are against him. Hagel would be interesting, but he would be such a repudiation of the current admin, I cannot imagine the GOP allowing it to happen.
Powell would make a great Democratic candidate, but I can’t imagine that after all of this, he would do it. He could never win as a Republican (as a Democrat, if he got nominated, I think he could be the next Eisenhower).
It is my current theory that the only people talking up Hillary are talk radio host because it gives them an easy hour. I have no feeling of the rank and file being enthralled by her. I have to admit that she has been a better senator than I thought she might be, but I just don’t see her as president. Like I said, I don’t think the US wants BUSH/CLINTON/BUSH/CLINTON in the history books.
The Democrats need someone that sounds reasonable on foreign affairs, has a decent plan for Iraq, and hits hard on homeland security. The Republicans need someone that can distance himself from Bush without saying Bush was wrong, and who the country will trust not to be corrupt and to be good on Domestic issues. It will be interesting to see how this all shakes out. Unless Cheney runs, this will be the first fully open presidential election in a very, very long time.
Hilliary:
If the GOP claims that “Connecticut voters as “extreme” and “out of touch” with mainstream America,” how extreme and out of touch must they be that their candidate can only get 4%?
And how extreme and out of touch are the Rhode Island Republican Voters if they throw out Chafee?
Commentby JDB— 8/17/06@ 6:06 pm
“I think that after Dick Cheney, a little less experience might help.”
That’s funny. I thought Bush should have dumped Cheney and picked up a new VP for 2004. If Cheney had aspirations on the White House before then, he was completely deluded. Although, I’d like to see him run just to see what Helen Thomas would do.
I think in today’s political climate 8 years of any Presidency leads to fatigue. There’s so much coverage of everything the President does. It’s just overkill.
So if Hillary runs and wins in 2008/2012 and Jeb Bush runs and wins in 2016 and 2020 it would be Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton/Bush. Too keep the streak going, Chelsea for President in 2024!
Certainly in 1990 no one thought Bill Clinton, if they’d even heard of him would be elected President, so there may be some dark horse out there that might surprise us all. Although in 1991 GH Bush was so popular who thought he could lose? The 2008 election is over two years away, a lot can happen before then.
Who will the commie libs run in 08? “Purple Heart” Kerry? Al “SUV and Gulfstream 5” Gore? Queen Hillary? Maxine “MoFo” Waters? Jesse “Shakedown” Jacksooooooooooon? William J. “IceBox” Jefferson, DEMOCRAT, LA, Ted “Oldsmobile” Kennedy, Al “Tawana Brawley” Sharpton? Pat “BitchSlap The Black Female Security Guard At The LAX Airport” Kennedy, Nancy “Nip/Tuck” Pelosi? Osama “Hussuan” Barrack Obama? OK, commie libs? help me here??
Anybody else here that wind whistling through trees sound?
Carl Grossman
Liberal, Democrat,
hear, not here. Sorry.
Carl Grossman
Liberal, Democrat
Republicans didn’t describe Connecticut voters as “extreme” and “out of touch.” They gave those descriptions to Democratic primary voters, a group you’d have hard time describing as representative of the majority of Connecticut. Lieberman is now leading Lamont by 12% in polls, and it’s likely that the purging of Joe from the party will bit the Dems back in the ass.