To repeat a comment I made a couple posts prior, the last thing voters want in their national leaders is weakness, and that’s exactly how Democrats are going to be perceived if they do not pass a health care reform bill after a year of endless talk and debate. President Obama promised change, and as ridiculous and unreasonable as the logic may be, considering that the Republicans have been the obstacle to change, if the Dems can’t produce it, voters will toss ’em out.
So the solution is obvious. The House needs to pass the Senate bill as-is, and then attempt to fix it as best they can through reconciliation and subsequent legislation. There’s no other choice. Anything else would be political suicide.
Progressives need to bite the bullet and pass a bill without a public option, that largely caves to the demands of the health care industry, and conservatives need to give up their demand for tougher restrictions on abortion. To do otherwise is to assure electoral disaster in November, and sacrifice our last best chance to turn this country around.
Agreed. “Nothing” is not an option. Passing the Senate bill as is is the only option.
Getting enough representatives in the House to understand that political reality is unlikely. I’m not optimistic.
This makes absolutely no sense to me. How is passing a bill that is a giveaway to insurance companies, does nothing to contain costs, will start charging right away while delaying whatever benefits are in it until 2014–in short how does passing a bill that’s a shit sandwich and that folks all across the political spectrum see as a shit sandwich–how does this show the dems in some sort of good light?
Whereas if Obama said “hey we made some mistakes, a lot of mistakes in this health care debate” and then broke the bill up into small pieces like removing the ‘pre existing conditions’, bringing back the bi-partisan drug reimportation bill, expanding medicare to those 55 and older. How would that not show the Dems in a better light than passing the Senate bill?
And how does weakening abortion rights the way the Senate (and House) bill does help the Dems with their base?
This also shows an elitist view of the folks you hope to sway. Why do you assume that folks will see the Dems as assertive and deserving of support when the only bill to pass contains none of the supposed core values of the party?
In other words to “turn this thing around” we need to keep moving in the direction of giving conservatives and large companies everything they want? Bull.
The right wing has always used reconciliation to force through their disastrous tax cuts.
Wow those tax cuts were some magic pill for the economy. Look where we are now..
Dems gotta do the same with important legislation like health care..
Otherwise.. Indeed progressive change will be delayed for many years, probably our lifetimes..
Goldy, a little quibble with using the words Progressive and Democrat interchangeably, not all Democrats can be described as Progressives and not all Progressives are Democrats. Progressives do have their own national political party as well.
I don’t think it’s weakness, I think it’s misplaced priorities. The folks at the top of the Democratic food chain aren’t there to pass healthcare, to keep a check on corporate power, or help the working class; they’re there to collect and dispense money and power. Asking them to pass any national healthcare bill cuts into their ability to act as gate keepers to money and power, so the are loath to do it.
2 – Many compromises in this nation’s history are just that – shit sandwiches..
We’ll live to fight another day..
NOTHING – not an option.
#1 I disagree. See #2.
#2. I agree with what kirk said. This version of the health care bill is a failure, and I want no part of it.
Let it fail, and put the blame where it belongs on the republicans and the turn coat dems destroyed it.
Weakness is ramming through this abomination as it stands. IMHO, if this is passed as is, the dems will loose more seats than if it’s abandoned.
I ain’t voting for anybody who votes for that Baucus/Lieberman/Nelson/Conrad piece of shit.
A mandate without a choice? FU. You might as well tie a rope around your neck and hand the other end to the tea baggers.
Do you REALLY think that PoS is better than nothing? You are nuts. What the hell are you going to run on in 2010? A public option?
Memo to Senate Democrats:
Grow a pair. Go nuclear. Repeal the Byrd rule. Pass the House Bill word for word on a simple majority.
Call Howard Dean. He can help if he wants to. Like me, he’s at home.
6 – We’ve been here before many times.. Most recently in the early nineties..
We can’t let this moment pass..
Write your Congress Critter to fix this bill as much as possible through the reconciliation process.
You really want to hand this extremist Republican Party that kind of power if they get control again?
So the solution is obvious. The House needs to pass the the Senate bill as-is, and then attempt to fix it as best they can through reconciliation and subsequent legislation. There’s no other choice. Anything else would be political suicide
Oh, wow, so pass it for the sake of the party, forget whether it’s any good. You want political suicide – you just showed the way.
Every time you provide advice on how to save the Titanic, it takes on even more water! Extraordinarily poor advice, Goldy. And Thank God there are probably enough members in the House who will never follow it!
Then send your votes in the form of dollars to progessive Dems who’ll take their jobs from them.
@4
You said the the progressives have their own national party as well. What is that party?
Our only hope is passing Medicare expansion in reconciliation.
Reconciliation is all about budget and deficit reduction.
A policy bill (Senate or House HCR versions) cannot be passed in reconciliation unless the “Byrd Rule” is waived. That takes 60 votes so it isn’t gonna happen.
But the real beauty part of passing Medicare expansion is that it doesn’t require all the other stuff (because you don’t need to mitigate the horror of crappy private insurance) to work and it ends up at Single Payer.
Here’s a CRS primer on the Byrd Rule:
http://www.rules.house.gov/Archives/RL30862.pdf
@7
It’s those of us on the left that need to grow a pair and go nuclear. The Democratic leadership in the house and senate will not act on healthcare unless the penalty for not acting is greater then that for acting. Right now the leadership will pay a penalty from the wealthy and powerful for acting (unless in doing so they further the goals of the wealthy and powerful.) and will not pay any penalty for not acting.
@12
http://www.ppp-civic.org/
http://www.waprogparty.org/
I’m not a member.
Bruce Ramsey has a good column on the Seattle Times op-ed this morning, pointing out that a federal mandate requiring individuals to purchase insurance from private companies is probably unconstitutional. He also mentions that a single-payer system would likely survive a constitutional test.
So, I’m in a wierd place right now — hoping the GOP/Teabaggers win the constitutional battle against Obamacare so that a future Congress is forced into single-payer as the only workable alternative.
Do you wingnut idiots really have your heads so far up your asses that you think the best way for the Dems to save face, is to pass a bill no one wants?
@17 see #14
Change the rules, kick out Lieberman, pass a better bill.
http://www.aei.org/article/101546
The Senate bill
1. Is a Great Society expansion of medicaid.
2. Imposes regulations on the health insurance industry that will increase their costs.
3. It has no lid on premiums, so health costs, instead of decreasing will actually increase.
4. Creates a bogus “exchange” which allows (but does not require) health insurance companies who don’t want to sell policies in Washington NOW to sell policies in Washington… if they change their mind. Guess what they’re going to do.
5. Mandates by threat of fine (or jail if can’t pay the fine) that we participate in this train wreck.
If that is not political suicide what is? Even Michael Steele can figure that out.
And one more that I think Barack, Harry, Rahm et al forgot bout….
It does nothing for me. I won’t qualify for Medicaid. I’m too young for Medicare. I’m an independent business owner and an individual in the insurance market. My insurance is outrageously expensive for a $3,500 deductible. And nothing in this bill is going to change that. You call that reform? I call it a piece of shit.
Goldy spews–
Huh?? You are absolutely NUTS!
If the Dems pass the Health Care Bill in it’s current form they will be tossed out because America hates it! It’s filled with pork, backroom deals with the Union, Nebraska, Louisiana etc. etc.
The best thing for the Dems is to go back and pass what WE THE PEOPLE want…not a bunch of leftist lunatics wetdreams & shady deals.
The best thing for Obam-Mao is for this thing to fail, go away and try to blame it on Republicans (good luck with that).
You KLOWNS really don’t get it.
You get swept in with promises of HOPE & CHANGE.
The change you have enacted is massive deficit spending??? How is that a change?
And HOPE?? Hope for what..typical Chicago gangland politics??
You are absolutely wrong Goldy.
Ram something thru like you propose and
1) Republicans will ultimately gut and overturn it.
2) Democrats WILL be drummed out of office.
But go ahead…MAKE MY DAY!
Paddy Mac spews–
Please do sir!!
You are right on this.
And so is Blue John who said at 6–
But hey, listen to David “The Devil” Axelrod!
He is the axis of evil and stupidity.
When was Axelrod elected to anything??
He lurks in the weeds and pulls Obam-Mao’s chain in the dark.
You KLOWNS need to dump Axelrod.
He was great at getting Obam-Mao elected…but he is the king pooch-screwer at this point.
After making so many concessions, and letting the Blue Dogs and Republicrats run roughshod all over them without any repercussions whatsoever, they already appear hopelessly weak.
Contrasted with the party unity, singularity of purpose, and consistent messaging of the opposition party, they sometimes appear to be like a lovable but chronically inept sitcom character.
I’m not saying that the GOP is the better party by any means, and I hate everything they stand for, but it’s pretty clear that they are the more effective party.
Sorry Goldy. No one is buying the line that we have to support Democrats at all costs, especially when the practical effect of doing so is little nor no better (in some cases worse) then what Republicans have wrought.
Whe a revolution fails, you go back to the beginning; you do not try to slavage what is already a failure, for that leads to despotism with a freindly face.
The old saying is true: try again; fail again; fail Better. But start from the begining.
I was a delgate for Obama. I joined my local LD Democrats. The biggest problem is that Democrats are merely apologists for what is just an extenstion of the neolib Clinton years, only this time more brazen, and more profitable. The party is self selecting for people who can only be active on someone else’s dime. That is the reality. The problem is systemic, as well as ethical.
I will not vote for a Republican, but I will always vote for reform. If the “D” does not produce reform, let the “R” sweep him/her away so someone else can get in 4 more years down the road. It’s better then begging members of out own party for term after term to do something they have no intention of doing.
I’m sick of the taste (no, the smell) of a mere carrot. I watched the D’s burn their majaority in 92-94, and I’m watching them do it again. Fool me once, shame on you….
i blame bloggerz.
“Are the national Dems about to commit political suicide?”
I’d almost bet money on it.
hmmmmmm-@24
That’s a pretty good assessment…and ironically similiar to how I (a Conservative) felt about Bush and some of the non-Conservative R’s.
I respect that at least you are willing to stand for something.
Field some Progressive Candidates.
I would love to see a Tea Party, Progressive, Republican, Democrat, Green race in 2012.
Right now, the Tea Party would win…with Progressives 2nd.
“The House needs to pass the the Senate bill as-is, and then attempt to fix it as best they can through reconciliation and subsequent legislation.”
I totally agree with this. Pass the bill, then if the Republicans want to change it, they’ll have to come to the negotiating table; and if they leave it as it is, we’ll be able to blame its defects on them.
BTW Racist Roger–
They are not committing suicide if they shitcan this ridiculous, unfair, drafted in the dark bill. They are retreating and regrouping for another day.
If they pass anything with special favors for unions or specific states…then they are committing suicide.
@2 You’re nuts if you think any Democrat will remove the pre-existing conditions clause. That’s the heart of insurance reform. Taking it out will kill the patient.
Racist Roger Rabbit – I like the sound of that!
@4 While I think your characterization of the DP poobahs is correct, they still need our votes, and if they roll over and play dead on health reform, a hell of a lot of their grassroots support will vanish.
@27: I generally agree; an example of how reformists in both camps probabaly have a lot in common, if we could get out of the left vs. right, 60’s culture wars, and pro/anti New Deal baggage left over from the last 60 years. It’s high time that we quit letting the leadershit of both parties define the framing of politics for us.
C’Mon, Goldy… anybody… what the hell do you run on 2010?
That you aren’t a Republican? Is that it?
@31 I’m sure you also like the sound of breaking glass, exploding bombs, and people screaming inside torture cells.
@29 I’m a big fan of special favors for unions. Why should big corporations and billionaires get all the special favors? The people who actually produce everything want their share, too.
But go on, keep hating workers, after you’ve beaten them down enough they’ll quit buying from you because they won’t have any money and then we’ll finally have true economic equality in this country because you’ll be living in the Hoovervilles with us.
#35 RRR – I do enjoy the sound of screaming Jihadis as they expire. I know you shed a tear for them.
@37 Do whatever you want to the Jihadis. I won’t say I thing. (Although I think anyone who enjoys it is a sick bastard.) But here’s the deal. If you torture even one innocent person, you burn in Hell for it.
Are the national Dems about to commit political suicide?
President Obama told ABC News today that the Senate will not attempt to pass health care reform before Sen.-elect Scott Brown (R-MA) is sworn in.
oh and i agree with 2, 9 23, and 36, disagree with 14, 19, and 38, and think 27 has nice diction.
Roger @30, you’re absolutely wrong.
Pre-existing clause is NOT the heart of reform. Competition is. The problem is COST. The crisis is caused by runaway health care cost inflation. The insurance companies are reacting to that. Competition is the ONLY way to attack the root problem.
I’d take a robust, competitive public option available to anyone and drop the insurance regulations in a New York minute.
When you regulate without reform, what the hell do you think the insurance companies are going to do? Exactly what they said they’re going to do: RAISE PREMIUMS!
@6 I agree this bill shouldn’t be passed merely to avoid appearing weak. I think it should be passed, though, because it’s a foundation to build on. With a law in place, Republicans either must live with it as is, or come to the table and cooperate with improving it. With nothing in place, they can stand pat, and you won’t see anything done about health care in your lifetime.
@36…you seem to forget about all the everyday joes who work a regular job that isnt union.
THOSE are the people who will get stuck with the BS tax
I dont see a tax on non-union people(but not on union people) who have the same health plan as being constitutional…and patently unfair.
and we ALL know why the dems did it – because hte unions give the dem candidates gobs of money.
crooked candidates being bought off – doesnt matter if its by big business or by the unions – its still dishonest and I propose that ANY politician caught taking bribes or beign bought off be executed for treason against the nation….I dont care what party they are from.
Mr Cynical @ 27
I don’t believe you.
Um, yea, really. So tell me…
In your libertarian utopia, who pays for the administration of elections and the courts?
@41 No, you’re wrong. Pre-existing conditions means no coverage for the people who need it most. Unless you’re willing to have government pick those people up, and create a program to do it, you’re whistling in the wind. In this case, worshipping the god of competition will get us nothing but a trainload of human misery. The status quo is all the proof anyone needs.
Also, you are mistaken if you think there’s competition in the health insurance market. The U.S. is a patchwork of mostly sole-provider monopoly markets.
“You really want to hand this extremist Republican Party that kind of power if they get control again?”
If the dems had united to impose the filibuster during the Robert and Alito nominations (remember, that’s when we LIKED the filibuster) you can bet your sweet bippy Frist and Co. would have blown up the Senate and “gone nukular”.
So fuck them. The GOP has already demonstrated the willingness to blow things up. Living in fear of what they “might” do just shows more effing weakness.
@41 I don’t think you have a very good understanding of what’s going on in health care.
First, the U.S. population is aging. This is a huge driver of rising health care costs, because people tend to need more health care as they get older. For the average American, about 90% of his/her lifetime health care expenditures occur in the last 3 years of life. The mere fact of the Baby Boomer generation reaching old age guarantees an explosion in health care expenditures.
Second, while the aging of Baby Boomers and the declining health that comes with old age are unavoidable, per capita U.S. health care spending is higher than other developed nations because we practice reactive medicine instead of preventive medicine. A significant amount of money could be saved if people didn’t wait until they’re sick before going to the doctor. But our system encourages them to do that. The solution is changing that part of the system.
Third, we’ve developed medical technologies we can’t afford that we’re unwilling to ration. If everyone who eats or smokes himself into an unhealthy heart gets a heart transplant, then we’re going to spend a third of our GDP on health care. There’s no difference between this and everyone driving a Ferrari regardless of whether the economy can afford it or not. Also, don’t underestimate the power of American vanity to burn money; how many billions do we spend every year on cosmetic surgery?
The bottom line is that other countries have been successful at providing basic health care to their citizens on a universal basis at much lower cost. America’s system of paying for and delivering health care is uniquely inefficient and expensive. We spend 30% right off the top for insurance intermediaries who do nothing but process payments. Other countries don’t waste their money in this manner. If you’re serious about reining in health care costs, you’ve got to take an axe to that 30%.
Perceiving the Dems. as weak allows them to mask the fact that they are just as complicit with the multinational corporate hegemonists as the Republicans.
Healthcare reform is a Dem. buzzword as anti abortion is to the right.
Nothing will change until Americans are savvy enough to put aside their differences and reject BOTH of the poliotical parties.
That’s why some astute observers on the left and the right see a viable movement in the combination of the right and left in the tea party movement.
It would be sweet revenge to turn this tea bagger thing that the corporations created into something that boomerangs on them.
@43 Bullshit. People who work in nonunion jobs either have no employer-paid health insurance at all, or such chintzy coverage they won’t come anywhere close to owing the “gold plater” tax. The only people in nonunion shops who will owe that tax are the front office boys. It won’t touch the people on the shop floor.
But hey, if you don’t like this legislation, then come to the table and negotiate with us to make it better, after we pass it. If you don’t, you have no one to blame but yourselves.
I’ll have access to health care no matter what happens. Even if the legislature takes away my state retiree benefits, which they won’t because I’m already paying 100% of the cost, I’m only a year away from Medicare, and even if Medicare collapses, I have V.A. entitlement. If everything collapses, 99% of the U.S. population will lose their health coverage before I will. So, if you Republicans insist on shooting your own balls off, I’m not going to stop you.
@49…you are clueless once again.
the people in the office you describe include secretaries, assistants, project manageers, project engineers, low level managers, etc…
are those the “front office boyz” you are talking about.
and i know of plenty of non-union field guys who have great health care(on par with their union counterparts)…
you are clueless to the real world.
LMFAO @ goebbels/himmler rabbit….so out of touch with normal middle class america that its comical…but are we surprised? NOPE.
@51 I’m not clueless and you’re a serial liar. Enough said.
@53…bullshit you old bastard
exmaple:
my company:
union field crews – have union health insurance
non-union office staff and warehouse staff. the health insurance for ALL non-union employees, from the upper management to the warehouse guys is EXACTLY THE SAME. we all have the same coverage.
so who is full of shit and lying?
you are so fucking out of touch and partisan that you dont even know reality anymore.
you are a pathetic, hatefull old propagandists – and you have been handed your hat, asshole.
oh, and it was YOU that got caught lying about certain articles by certain authors over the last 48 hours.
OWNED BIZNATCH.
46 – The gang of 14 agreement obviated that. A similar agreement can do so again.
It’s just not going to happen..
Roger @ 47… Too many trees for you to see the forest, eh?
I suggest you read “In Critical Condition: The Crisis in America’s Health Care.”
It was written in 1972 by Ted Kennedy.
People are uninsured because health care costs are too high. You accurately describe why, but propose nothing to stop it. Insurance companies game the coverage to deny coverage with scams like pre-existing condition clauses because health care costs are too high. Insurance companies avoid states with consumer friendly regulations because health care costs are too high. Medicare and Medicaid nag at the costs, but in the end, follow right along.
Health care costs will continue to rise, doubling again in another 10 years. Or as the insurance industry is warning, this time in 8 years because of these regulations. There is nothing to stop them.
There is nothing in the Senate bill to prevent the spiraling inflation of health care costs or insurance premiums. Nothing.
The only thing that will work is a systemic approach and the only way we know to apply downward pressure to prices (aside from depression) is competition.
The only place to insert competition in the health care industry (see Krugman… anything, anywhere) is at the point of payment, the insurance industry.
@49
Not exactly true. There are companies without a single union employee who offer damn good health insurance for their full time employees.
It is fairly common in the tech industry where the bar on benefits tends to be set by the Microsoft’s and Google’s of the world.
On the other hand hiring lots of temps and contractors who get no sick leave, paid holidays or vacation, and either minimal or no benefits is also common.
@56
A lot of what you say makes sense, EXCEPT, that you do nto suggest either a political or an admin route to reducing costs.
There are also facts in the way ofsuggesting that pressure on insurance comanies will answer the question. Non profit consumer owned healthcare, no insurance overhead, cost as much as the more common form.
Wihtout administrative tools, our effed up system also has no handle on the problem. The greatest virtue of the Senate bill is that it begins a process by creating an oversight agency and exchanges. The House bill also does this though in a much better way.
The final answer likely means giving consumers a real choice and a voice. That means getting the unions and companies out of the healthcare business and requiring that everyone has coverage.
Without these two points we are .. in an unpleasant way .. fucked.
54 – What a miserable low-life you are.
The BS tax as you call it is actually supported by economists as an incentive for consumers to choose less expensive plans..
The net effect is to drive down medical costs. Cadillac benefits drive up medical plan utilization, drive up costs.
The tax is by design meant to drive people to avoid it. Ever hear of behavioral economics? Biznatch??
and like all complicated legislation, it’s easily demagogued by know-nothings – like you…
And Roger made a simple error that he acknowledged, that to my recollection didn’t undermine his original argument.
OWNED YA IGNORANT RIGHT WING MORON!
You’re sure “working hard” coming here to call people names.
Translation: just as long as they come from the party that Dori Monson never votes for.
@57…but those contractors make a lot more per hour than the perm employees do to make for the lack of benes
@60…shut the fuck up you nutball.
@59….another clueless person…go get a job ylb.
libtardos don’t get that Seattle is not the nation. America is center-right and does not want public option or single-payer. But I sincerely hope the Dems double-down on HCR AND “The Fairness Doctrine”. Try to shut down Limbaugh, I double-dog dare ye.
60 – So funny your solution to so many things involves killing. Never knew a right winger who just didn’t luvvv killin’..
59 – No counter-argument? Of course not. You’re here to lie, repeat the demagoguery you’ve heard on the Monson show or elsewhere and name-call. You can go back to your yob now hard-working success man.
46 – The gang of 14 agreement obviated that. A similar agreement can do so again.
Certainly. But that was not the initial concern you raised.
FALSE!!!
http://www.reuters.com/article.....OL20091203
Paddy Mac can’t read a CBO report.
hmmmm is no Democrat if he/she wants a Republicas in office instead of a better Democrat.
Only in a libtardo bizarro world are the Republicans “on the run” right now. But HA is such a place. Bizarro!!!
just did a search for that phrase. It appears no where in this thread.
cite?
@61
Not so much anymore. Depending on the position the hourly is only slightly better. Besides when you add bench time in and paying your own benefits you come out a bit behind the full-timers.
Sure the senior Oracle DBA’s can make out like bandits, but the rank & file testers not so much.
This election does demonstrate one thing: The Health Care bill created by the Senate is a now officially a turd.
It’s waaaaaaaay too “conservative” in it’s compromises and needs to be scrapped.
Here’s how we do it:
First, go back to the “original intent” of the filibuster. And, that is to give any senator as much time as they’d like to talk.
What are bat shit crazy Republicans going to talk about that will resonate with the American people in a 24/7 news cycle:
DEATH CAMPS??? Socialism??? The evil Medicare system that everyone who has it wants to keep it???
Then, reinstate the “original rules” of the filibuster that when a senator is filibustering a quorum of their caucus must be present at all times, otherwise the filibuster will be considered lifted.
After 30, 40, 50, maybe 60 days of bat shit crazy talk from Republicans, it is THEY who will pay the political price for not having any ideas, or shitty ideas AND for not doing any of their other senatorial duties.
The, put up the Single Payer option ONLY and let the good times role. If Democrats are worried they’ll pay a political price at the polls this fall for the crappy health care bill they crafted, they might as well go all out and roll the bones. If gravitating toward a crappy bill hurts their electoral chances, then firing away at Single Payer can only IMPROVE their chances at reelections.
And we get a single payer health care reform bill. PERIOD.
(This would have prevented and will prevent the Lieberman’s & Nelson’s of the world their filibuster against their own caucus since the Democratic majority would’ve have just as easily left the chamber, thus lifting the filibuster and allowing a simple majority vote to come to the floor.)
It’s not too late. Pressure Patty Murray and Maria Cantwell to go along with the traditional filibuster rule instead of this new perverted “silent” filibuster rule that denies the majority from doing the People’s business.
Seconded
GBS,
Puddy hopes they listen to you. Can you say Leader John Boehner?
Roger Rabbit,
I was talking about removing the pre-existing conditions part of the current health care insurance company support bill and passing it as a separate piece of legislation.
Along with other pieces that folks can agree on, like drug re-importation before Obama, Murray and Cantwell (among others) flip flopped on that.
Can hardly believe you asked the question in the title of this post.
Ahem, the national democrats already ARE committing political suicide—with their arrogance, raping and pillaging of the taxpayers, and backroom deals and favors with Nelson & Landrieu et al….Hence–Virgina, New Jersey and now Massachusetts. The American people are disgusted at being treated this way.
73 – Just luuvv that BillO taint these wingnuts can’t help but ape.
“We are on the precipice of an achievement that’s eluded congresses and presidents for generations.”
— President Barack Obama, Dec. 15, on health care legislation.
Precipice, 1. a headlong fall or descent, esp. to a great depth.
— Oxford English Dictionary
I don’t think that Obama, the great orator, realizes what he’s said.
You know, when one political party, during a time of some of the greatest pain and greatest risk our great nation has ever been in, blocks every effort to makes things better in order to very consciously make things worse in the hope that they will gain politically, you’d think that they would not actually benefit from that.
If they do, I blame society.
But Republicans, just so you know, we’re passing health care reform anyway.
Daddy Love,
Go for it. Please. Can you say Speaker John Boehner?
Scott Brown also ran on this… “In dealing with terrorists, our tax dollars should pay for weapons to stop them, not lawyers to defend them.”
It resonated in Massachusetts.
Sure I can. Can you?
Because John Boner is in the House of Representatives and he would be known by his FORMER title, Speaker.
Leader, refers to the Seante Majority LEADER.
As usual, your heart is in the right place but your facts and figures are wrong.
BillO taint ylb arschloch?
We smell the taint of your head being pulled from Keith Olbermann’s arschloch from miles away fool!
GBS Puddy caught it later. And Puddy wants you to use some of those tax savings to take out ads in WAPost telling Dummocrapts to go full speed ahead NOW!
Do it GBS!
@79
Well, Daddy, I see while YOUR valued customers are having their PCs hacked around the world, you’re doing your part to protect them on HA once again!
Exploit in the Wild for New Internet Explorer Flaw
“Less than 24 hours after Microsoft acknowledged the existence of an unpatched, critical flaw in all versions of its Internet Explorer Web browser, computer code that can be used to exploit the flaw has been posted online.”
Firefox Soars on Germanys Browser Warning
http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/20.....r-warning/
Microsoft’s Browser Under Fire In Europe
http://online.wsj.com/article/.....44868.html
In 2009, there were five special Congressional elections, and Democrats won all five.
Now Republicans win one and you’d think they dsicovered a cure for cancer.
2010 is an awfully big mountain boys, and your side is damn near bankrupt. Sure a bunch of money can be poured into a a special election for an open seat, and a Republican who for all of his utterances has a pretty liberal voting record can be elected, sometimes, when he poses as a moderate. After all, Mittens Romney win statewide office in MA.
But all across the country Republicans are going to be running, and ofgten NOT for open seats, and often protecting their own incumbency against well-financed Democrats (Republican incumbents are in as much danger as Democratic ones), and the GOP just does not have the money to fund them all. It won’t be pretty.
If you think Democrats in 2004/20062008 won because there was a “throw the bastards out” sentiment, you’re only partly right. In 2004 Howard Dean pioneered new fundraising and social organizing techniques, and in 2006 he used his position as DNC Chairman to utilize those techniques and a new and energized geernation of savvy activists and organizers into his “50 state strategy” that played a huge part in those ’06 and ’08 victories. Democratic are STILL outraising their GOP countertparts.
What’s Michael Steele been doing for your party lately?
Good luck in 2010. You’re really going to need it.
83 – You’re just mad ‘cuz I owned your silly ass in the other thread..
When that happens you start pulling shit out of your silly ass and you dial up your stupid name-calling..
You’ve had your head up the collective asses of Scaife, Moon, Murdoch and the rest for so long well the stink of your love for their right wing bullshit carries right through the monitor.
The truth hurts so much you can’t help yourself – you squeal “just shut up”.
I can say “skin cacer victim John Boehner.” He has insurance. If only all other Americans could.
Oh, wait, they will.
Delusional. You owned my ASS? Hardly fool!
Puddy proved how you chose NOT to copy your Al Franken congrats.
BUSTED Fool!
Hey HA Libtardos,
Notice how ylb arschloch vicariously uses my attacks as his “latest” comebacks… “We smell the taint of your head being pulled from Keith Olbermann’s arschloch from miles away fool!” His useless comeback
This moron can’t even think of an original attack.
Well he is the dumbest brick on HA!
What tax “savings” are you talking about???
Remember, GBS pays his LEGAL full share of taxes according to the tax laws. So what’s the beef?
Second, I’ve already contacted my representatives and Democrat leaders and told them just that message. So, why do I want to take an ad out? I can just reinvest that money into my investment accounts.
Oh, and you may want to look at DPZ. I’m just sayin $11.50 on heavy volume would be a good buy signal.
US Steel is a good long term buy, too.
Also, might want to look at Chinese stocks. Downward pressure on the Chinese stocks this month may present some good buying opportunities.
Hey ylb arschloch… here is why Puddy said your head is far up Keith Olbermann’s ASS…
Keith Olbermann.
ylb arschloch.
in his obvious fit of depression, I wonder if the bi-sexual switch hitting freak Olbermann will go male or female tonight..
Max,
Puddy has to explain it to ylb arschloch hence the comparison to Keith Olbermann. If he doesn’t read it on leftwing whackamole sites it can’t be true.
What say you HA populace? Is Olbermann muff diving tonight or is he going for balls across the nose?
discuss.
93 – huh.. like I’d fucking care…
Yeah.. right.. When caught being a silly ass, you make shit up…
That’s you M.O. as well.. You can’t hide much from me Stupes.. You and I have been at each others throats for too long.
You can dance for your silly peeps all you care to..
But I know the truth and you know I know..
Dance the night away silly fool…
96 – Wouldn’t you like to know.
Why are right wingers so dirty minded?
Say, why do Republicans on this blog constantly trash Ronald Reagan and call him a failure! I mean I CONSTANTLY hear that Obama is DOOMED and a failure because he was swept in high ratings, then after a year fell to 50%. Er…that’s exactly what happened to Reagan, the GOD of the Republican party.
“Reagan, like Obama, got approval ratings in the high 50s and low 60s during most of his first summer in office, but as unemployment remained high, Reagan’s approval rating dropped below 50 percent for the first time in November of 1981, and it stayed under 50 percent for the next two years.”
So if Obama stays under 50% for 2 MORE YEARS he’s no worse than Reagan. Didn’t Reagan win a 2nd term? ROTFLMAO. But will the Republicans think so? Anyone wanna guess? LOL
Now this is interesting.
So all can see the feckless fool ylb arschloch in action visit this link…
Nobody hiding nuthin from the chronologically monomaniacal moronic idiotic ylb arschloch maniac. You have it all stored on your personal system providing Goldy free backup service. Too bad it’s not doing your sorry ASS any good! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
So how did it feel having your head up Keith Olbermann’s ASS?
See ya schmuck!
101 – you’re still making shit up.
You criticized me for asserting the 60 vote majority is a myth yesterday,
and you pointed to a place where I said pretty much the same thing the PREVIOUS APRIL. Moreover you tried to hide it by pointing to the threads not the comments.
Now that you’ve moved the goalposts you’re pointing to comments. How clever…
My view was consistent. You’re such a dumbass. Franken was neither here nor there.
So silly.
Puddybud~
Of course, YLB, being the Arschloch that he is felt right at home.
They took poison years ago; they symptoms are finally becoming obvious.
Meantime, we have the manifesto of the American Pirate Party.
NO — to everything except war and corporate hegemony.
See. Now I’m a centrist.
The Mendacity of Hope
Roger D. Hodge, Harper’s, current issue:
A year and more has passed, yet we have not been delivered. Some believed that Barack Obama had come to restore the Republic, to return
our nation to the righteous path. A new, glorious era in American politics was at hand. If only that were true. We all can taste the bitterness now. Obama promised to end the war
in Iraq, end torture, close Gitmo, restore the constitution, heal our wounds, wash our feet. None of these things has come to pass. …
Admirers of the president now embrace actions they once denounced as criminal, or rationalize and evade such questions, or attempt to explain away what cannot be excused.
That Obama is in most respects better than George W. Bush, John McCain, Sarah Palin, or Joseph Stalin is beyond dispute and completely beside the point. Obama is judged not as a man but as a fable …