Yesterday I posted a video of Tacoma police tear-gassing peaceful protesters, and then opening fire with rubber bullets as the protesters scattered to avoid the gas. Seemed pretty clear to me that this represented an excessive use of force against protesters sitting in the street, singing.
Of course, as expected, some in the comment thread disagreed, arguing that the “scum” got what they deserved, and encouraging me to show the Tacoma police what a tough guy I am so that I could get what I deserve too. Commenters cited a KING-5 News report accusing protesters of provoking the violent response by hurling barricades at the line of police.
Yeah… well… if the TV news reports a police spokesperson saying something is so, then I guess it must be, huh?
Well, the amateur cameraman who posted the controversial clip apparently heard the same complaints too, and so he has posted a new clip containing the KING-5 report, and unedited video of the notably undramatic events that occurred during the five minutes prior to the assault. Perhaps the police just couldn’t take the singing anymore, but the action that triggered the attack appears to have been the protesters sitting down en masse — tear gas canisters and rubber bullets hail down on the singing protesters in response.
Yup… guess those “scum” got what they deserved.
Complete, candid, real time video that can be posted to a very public forum is a threat to democracy.
Just ask George “Macaca” Allen.
What do you mean with “unedited” movie ? Are you saying the previous one was edited ? Well, I guess if the person now says it’s unedited it must be, huh ?
I actually talked to a person who was there, but left before the shit hit the fan. What he told me was that they were protesting peacefully on the side of the road, but that a large group decided not only to protest but to block the road completely. The Police asked them to clear the street for quite some time but they refused. He left when it became clear that some of the protesters sought the conflict for the cameras.
Tell me something Goldie.
Why would ANY liberal democrat do business with a contractor/mortgage lender/bank who was a member of BIAW?
They exist for the purpose of electing republicans, they lobby to elect republicans, and their president, McCabe, has a personal fetish for attacking our governor. Don’t believe me? Take a look for yourself:
http://www.biaw.com/DesktopDefault.aspx
Maybe you could form a list of contractors, mortgage lenders, and banks that WEREN’T members of BIAW so the rest of us could give them our business?
Goldy,
You are taking your information from 1 video, that shows 1 area. That is ignorant and you know it. Throughout the video, you can see the barricade closest to the cameraman is on the ground. There is a Loudspeaker asking the protesters to disperse (Failing to comply with the directions of a police officer)The lady yelling towards the end, is getting more and more hostile. And finally, the tear gas was fired behind the protesters, not at the ones sitting down. There are people in the back, that the camera doesn’t film until after the tear gas. There are also Police back there. How in the hell do you know that the protesters back there weren’t getting hands on with the Police?
Goldy, I presume that you are at least a somewhat intelligent individual. You have a blog and have made a name for yourself. So even you should be able to admit that the camera gives one angle and one perspective. You can see other cameras filming, how come those tapes haven’t come forward? Could it be possible, that one or two protesters, or people pretending to be a part of the overall group, took it upon themselves to ruin this event for the rest of those hippies?
By the way, have you contacted the Police for that ride along, so you and see first hand the crap that the public puts cops through? Man up Goldy, put yourself in the their shoes and try to see the world from a different perspective, or are you afraid that you might be proven wrong?
Brew,
If the BIAW exists to elect Republicans, it follows, then, that the Washington Education Association exists fo elect Democrats.
I don’t care how much CRAP the cops take. They sign up for it. It’s no excuse to shoot at unarmed women.
These cops are the SCUM. I remember the so-called brave cops during WTO who beat old ladies, pepper sprayed a teenager and kicked her in the back.
These fuckers are worse than the crooks they get paid to catch. At least the crooks don’t pretend to be the good guys. Fuck the Tacoma PD!
Dutch @2,
Well, if you watched the two clips you’d understand what I mean by unedited. The first clip starts just moments before the assault; it’s a shorter excerpt. The second clip starts several minutes before the assault, and continues up to and including much of the first clip. There is no “editing” per se visible within either clip — the camera just rolls.
I don’t really care if the protesters “sought conflict” or not. When one conducts an act of civil disobedience one can fully expect to be arrested, but treated civilly. One should not expect to be gassed and shot at. Not in America, anyway.
The protesters should be commended for remaining nonviolent throughout. But I’ll repeat my warning — if authorities start escalating the response to peaceful protests, history tells us that eventually the protesters will respond by being less peaceful. That is human nature.
I don’t think it was the Tacoma police on that video kicking butt. I think those people doing the butt-kicking were from the Pierce County sherriff.
The Tacoma cops have more improtatn things to do, like tell Tacoma residents there’s nothing the Tacoma cops can do to recover a stolen vehicle because, “what do you expect? This is Tacoma.”
Goldy,
“I don’t really care if the protesters “sought conflict” or not. When one conducts an act of civil disobedience one can fully expect to be arrested, but treated civilly. One should not expect to be gassed and shot at. Not in America, anyway.”
You use the word CIVIL. That implies civility on both parties. Both the cops and the protester(s) have a duty to respect the other. When the protester decides to escalate their actions by resisting arrest, fighting, spitting or any number of actions, then the Police Officer(s) have every right to use the appropriate amount of force to detain that individual. Once again, you are relying on one source of information, and that source is one video. A person on your own blog has admitted that some individuals were there to cause “conflict for the cameras”. Being arrested for trespassing wouldn’t have made this story what it has become. Starting a fight with a cop, ensuring that the cops would take action, has made this story. How many times, in the past 5 years, have people been arrested for civil disobedience, and it didn’t make the news. It will only become a story, if the Police have to take action other than a simple arrest.
Felix:
Sounds like a deal to me. You send your kids to private schools, and I will only give my business to companies that aren’t BIAW members.
Goldie doesn’t realize it, but he could bring these guys down. There are far too many people who would refuse to do business with them if they knew how their money was being spent. All it takes is a little publicity.
BIAW members would flee the BIAW like rats from a sinking ship if it started costing them business. All that would have to happen is for people to call up and ask.
Ring, ring.
“Hello, Olympic homebuilders”
“Hi. I was looking for a builder to put a house up for me. Do you do custom construction?”
“We specialize in custom construction”
“Great. Before we begin, is your company a member of the BIAW?”
“Well, yes, we are.”
“OK, thanks. I am going to keep on looking.”
click.
A couple hundred phone calls like that, and the BIAW could kiss their ass goodbye. Organizations like BIAW can’t survive unless they are growing their member base. Once the organization start contracting, it creates a psychological avalanche among members. The ones who don’t quit, stop paying dues to see if the organization will survive. Then, the organization sends out letters begging for money, and then it goes down the drain.
Goldie could start the avalanche if he gave away some ads from “non-BIAW builders” and “non-BIAW lenders.” All he has to do is get people to ask the question.
So-called Fireman @4,
You can damn well bet that the police and other government authorities were filming the protest too (and probably had several undercover agents in it), and we’re not seeing any of those videos coming public to back up their charges.
I am not anti-police or anti-cop. I deeply respect the job most of them do, and their willingness to put their lives on the line to protect us. But their job is to safeguard the public peace, not kick the ass of peaceful protesters. Violence — even supposedly nonlethal violence — should a tool of last resort. My objection is to it being used as a tool of convenience.
Tear gas and rubber bullets can cause serious injury, and on rare occasions can be fatal. The police put the protesters’ lives at risk. It was unnecessary.
No dice, brew, unless I can keep my moeny rather than having it enrich the WEA.
If ooooonly the libral meedya would just shut up and let the brave poleese do thier jobs and Preznit Bush is a fine Christian man with high morals and Secretary Condosleezza is trying to negotiate with the Aaa-rabs and Vice Preznit Cheney is also a fine Christian man with high morals and they are only tryin’ to pretect us while bombin’ and killin’ and wiretappin’ and surveillin’ and spyin’ and shootin’ and protectin’ us from the hordes and the protesters probly had it comin’ and those people in South America should be grateful for all our help and all the U.S. attorneys who got fired were probly Democrats anyway and Carl Rove is a fine Christian man with high morals and Newt Gingerch is a fine Christian man with high morals and Mitt Romney is allowed to change his mind on stem cells, abortion, gay rights, and gun control and Rudy is a fine Christian man with high morals and he is also allowed to change his mind about marryin’ his first cousin and none of them are flip-flopers.
Goldy,
Show me the video of where the tear gas was fired, that shows the Cops were not being assaulted. Show more than one source of information that can back you up, and I will agree with you. But you can’t. And, if you have proof, other than wild ass assumptions, that the City or County was filming the event, then do a FOIA and get the video.
I can certainly tell how you appreciate the cops and their duty. The way you make broad strokes attacking them, on your public blog. If I remember correctly, you live in Seattle, then call (206) 625-5011 and request a ride along in the Rainer Valley or another hot bed.
“Violence — even supposedly nonlethal violence — should a tool of last resort. My objection is to it being used as a tool of convenience.”
This is why you are not a journalist, you have no poof, only a video that shows one angle, that Tear gas and rubber bullets weren’t used appropriately. After the tear gas was fired, protesters got up and started running, and the camera wasn’t focused on the line. If Protesters started running at the police and flailing their arms, in an attempt to either flee or actually hit the cops, then they used the appropriate amount of force. 1 person, on the protesters side, could have set this off with inappropriate actions, yet you completely dismiss that possibility. I guess that is how you show your respect and gratitude towards the Cops right? By assuming that they did wrong, and the people actually breaking the law were in the right. Is the sky blue in your world Goldy?
Not a dime of your money goes to the WEA, unless you are a member who pays dues.
It is long past time that organizations like the BIAW and their members were called to account for their political activities. If they want to go to war with the majority of the state, that is their business. But I won’t do business with anyone who is a member, and my bet is plenty of others feel the same way.
“Not a dime of your money goes to the WEA, unless you are a member who pays dues.”
Precisely!
The unfortunate thing is we keep spending and the education level seems to be deteriorating. Throwing money at the problem is going to do nothing to improve education.
What is needed is a change in mindset for educators and parents alike. Phonics, math drills – these work! They may be old fashioned, but they work. A hammer is an old fasioned tool, yet I’m sure no one would say that replacing a hammer with a Ipod wold drive nails better.
Use what works. If it means returning to previous methods then fine. Get to it!
re 4: Clinton put more cops ON the street. BushCo cut funding and took them OFF the street.
All hat and no horse — that’s you.
“Union Fireman says:
Goldy,
Show me the video of where the tear gas was fired, that shows the Cops were not being assaulted. Show more than one source of information that can back you up, and I will agree with you.”
I haven’t seen any of the video, but I’m betting there is no video showing the police being attacked by the protesters.
Show me the video of where the cops are being attacked, that shows the Cops were not not being assaulted. Show more than one source of information that can back you up, and I will agree with YOU.
If there is other video, it needs to be made public. From the video we have seen, the actions appear excessive on the part of the Tacoma PD. If there is conclusive video that can validate either side, it should be published. But from the available footage, the Tacoma PD appear to be at fault for using excessive and unwarranted force.
Why don’t the Tacoma Police just admit that they made a mistake? Everyone makes bad decisions – especially in the dark, late at night, when the music is bad.
I’m willing to forgive, but not if THE POLICE KEEP SPREADING LIES.
” . . . you have no proof, only a video that shows one angle, that Tear gas and rubber bullets weren’t used appropriately.” Union Fireman @ 14
Actually, UF, you are the one with no proof, just a shitload of speculation that springs up from some long-held biases. What the video represents, whether perfect or otherwise, is some proof. It may not be the end of the story, but it is “proof” in an evidentiary sense–the video would be admissible in a court of law as evidence of what happened on the night in question. In that same court of law, you would stand empty-handed whining about the angle of the camera, but offering nothing of your own.
I must say most of you are in fact fools. To believe a single camera angle as pure fact just makes you all ignorant. If you look near the end there is a man picking up a barricade, and multiple barricades being knocked over. Also you hear someone yelling fascist, I would normally say that someone yelling fascist is probably doing something rather hostile. I also didn’t see any shots of the police who threw the tear gas… What if they were being attacked by protesters? One angle of a story can’t tell the whole story. Try again next time.
Proud, Skimax, Headless,
What the video shows, are protesters knowingly violating the law. It shows 1 angle that, even your blindly following libs should agree, doesn’t include the area that the teargas was fired, prior to the gas releasing. On the video, you can plainly see other demonstrators taping the event. Where are these tapes? You are making assumptions that the TPD or PCSO was videotaping the event, but have no proof of that. The video also shows that, prior to sitting down, the protesters were closing ranks on the cops. It plainly shows at least 1 barricade on the ground. You can also hear, what appears to be behind the cameraman, bangs, like things falling, but the camera never pans to those noises. They happen with 2:30 left in the tape.
Once again, Innocent until proven guilty right? There is no evidence that the actions of the police were wrong. We have the protesters, who were knowingly violating the law, and we have the police, who are charged with enforcing the law. We have a video, that shows 1 angle and was filmed by a protester (Not exactly unbiased).
Let me show you and example:
http://www.break.com/index/pro.....er_II.html
The first video, that the media found, was from an angle that it didn’t appear that the criminal had a gun. However, from another angle it plainly shows that the criminal had a gun, had already pointed it at police, and was turning around with the gun in hand. Once again, the media jumped all over the cops because 1 angle showed part of the story. Having worked side by side with Law Enforcement for almost 10 years, and seeing how the people like you take part of the story and make it fit to your preconceived notions, I will give the cops the benefit of the doubt.
There are bad apples in the Police force. We all know this. But there are also bad apples who were at the protest, that want to bring attention to their movement. The best way to do so, is to provoke the police and cause a reaction like this. It gains media attention and assists in their movement. Why can’t you accept the possibility that something happened that provoked the police?
Shouting or screaming “fascist” isn’t a crime. Last I heard, innocence is presumed, so if the cops think they were justified in their assault, they should have evidence. Hell, some police forces have video in every squad car. They clearly launched a planned assault, this wasn’t shots fired in the heat of battle (or they would have been lead bullets not rubber).
If the cops had provocation, they should damn well be held to account to document that. If they didn’t have a video camera handy to shoot their angle, then they are stupid, and deserve condemnation for that alone.
re 23: “I would normally say that someone yelling fascist is probably doing something rather hostile.”
I would normally say that someone yelling fascist is probably being attacked by a fascist.
lucy,
No one gives a shit what you think.
Reductio ad Absurdam:
These Police are nothing but “GUMMINT” employed UNION MEMBERS. They are doing a terrible job and our communities should be able to fire them and get GOVERNMENT VOUCHERS to hire our own private police.
The crime rate in gated communities patrolled by PRIVATE POLICE is significantly lower than on S. Rainier Blvd. Therefore, the private police in the gated communities are doing a better job.
We need vouchers to hire our own private police force.
re 27: You mean all the times that I’ve cried keepin’ all the thing I knew inside?
Well, it’s hard (but it’s harder to ignore it).
If you were right, I’d agree, but it’s them they Know not me.
re 27: I feel like I’m bein’ followed by a Moon Shadow (Moon Shadow, Moon Shadow).
29
“Father & Son”–Cat Stevens
Do I get a point for name that tune? Keep up the good work; having a rightie tell you to shut up indicates you’re doing something right.
re 27: I think my problem is that I built my house from barley rice, green pepper walls , and water ice, tables of paperwood, windows of light — and everything emptyin’ (you guessed it) into White.
I should have hired union workers.
re 27: Do you think the real Cat Stevens is an ISLAMOFASCIST?
On second thought, don’t tell me, because no one here gives a shit what you think.
And I know that hurts because wingnuts are GROUPTHINK people.
Police Officers are supposedly trained to deal with situations like this, especially as it isn’t as if the situation was unanticipated.
Tear gas and rubber bullets are used to control rioting. While they are normally used in an effort to avoid more lethal means of regaining order, they are still potentially life threatening. As it was a peaceful protest, there is the possibility of children and the elderly being present. (The video is pretty dark, but at least one person I saw appeared to be a child.)
Even the Tacoma Police Department has not claimed that there was a riot in progress.
Now, in defense of the officers shown, most of them seem to have acted professionally. To say that “These fuckers are worse than the crooks they get paid to catch” is obviously wrong. They have a tough job, and even the video shows the majority acting in a professional manner.
Perhaps the most troubling part of this whole episode is the lack of any scrutiny from the news media. We have TPD Officers using potentially deadly force against what appears to be non-violent civilians. The protesters have a video of the entire affair. Somehow, just taking the word of the TPD that they did everything right just doesn’t cut it.
This needs to be investigated, by someone outside of the TPD. Someone in authority gave the order to use the tear gas and rubber bullets. Who was it, and why? (If discipline is so bad in the TPD that individual officers made that call on their own, we have bigger problems.)
Who made the call, based on what evidence? Why was it such an emergency that simply waiting out the protesters, or simply arresting them was not an option?
I had thought that we had some news media down here in Pierce County. At this point, I’m wondering where they are hiding.
@1 Interfering with videotaping police beatings should be a felony.
Actually, I’m serious — police almost always interfere with any citizen who tries to videotape an arrest or crowd dispersal action. Cops just don’t want their job performance documented. But they work for us, the public, and they DON’T have a right to lie about what happened! Videotapes (like the one that sent Rodney King’s tormenters to prison) keep cops honest — and honesty is a good thing! But because of the near-universal police hostility to citizens observing and documenting (even from a safe distance) police actions, we need specific legislation guaranteeing the right of citizens to photograph and tape police actions.
@4 Well, this is easy enough to resolve, Anti-union Fireliar. Instead of speculating about what justification the police might have had, why don’t you just provide us with links to the video images? If the protesters provoked the cops, somebody’s got it on tape, you can bet money on that. So, show us the tapes. In other words, put up or shut up.
@5 Nice try, but the WEA exists to further the interests of their teacher members, including high salaries, smaller class sizes, more of the state budget appropriated for K-12, etc. — which sometimes puts them at odds with Democratic governors and legislators. And, last time I checked, they weren’t trying to pack the state supreme court with rightwing extremists whose views don’t represent the majority of our state’s citizens.
One might wonder, “Does this incident or does it not violate the use-of-force guidelines within the Tacoma PD?”
One might also wonder what those guidelines are, and whether they should be publicly available, as they do not seem to be on http://www.cityoftacoma.org/Page.aspx?hid=1907, the TPD site.
And if Tacoma PD use-or-force guidelines recommend using tear gas and rubber bullets on peaceful protesters, one might wonder why.
@7 “But I’ll repeat my warning — if authorities start escalating the response to peaceful protests, history tells us that eventually the protesters will respond by being less peaceful. That is human nature.”
Not necessarily, Goldy. It depends a lot of the leadership. Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr. were able to inspire their dissident movements to remain peaceful and nonviolent in the face of extremely violent provocations by the government and police authorities they confronted. Their examples of peaceful civil disobedience are deeply embedded in the thinking of American protest movements. WTO was a peaceful demonstration, except for a tiny group of anarchists who committed preplanned, premeditated violent provocations — about 20 people out of more than 100,000. I was out of town at the time, but Mrs. Rabbit was part of the 50,000-strong AFL-CIO contingent, which throughout the demonstrations and street marches remained peaceful, orderly, disciplined, complied with the terms of their parade permit, and cooperated with the police. It all depends on the skill and attitude of the organizers and leaders. It’s not a given that protests have to turn violent, even in the face of police provocations, or police violence.
@10 Is there some way for us to obtain and publish the BIAW membership list? No calls for boycotts or anything like that … just publish the list, and let individuals make up their own minds whether to do business with BIAW member companies.
@41 Hell, we don’t even need the list! There’s a real business opportunity here for Realtors, contractors, and builders to advertise themselves as “not affiliated with BIAW.”
@23 “I would normally say that someone yelling fascist is probably doing something rather hostile”
Show me where in the Constitution or statutes this justifies police in using force?
@23 Just what this blog needs — another fascist poster against free speech.
union fireman….you tell em!
they are way too stupid to actually LISTEN but keep telling them anyway…it’s good for them. rumor has it ,it builds character…and god knows they need it………
two of my sons are firemen and my nephew is a cop. and the crap that they have to put up with from some of the “citizens” is just amazing….
while they are saving their lives and bacon mind you……
but as my middle son said so well “liberal trash…you just don’t get any more stupid than that….”
@44 Now I suppose he’s gonna come after me, thinking he can claim “self defense” because I called him a “fascist”. That isn’t hostile, it’s just stating facts.
@27 cat, no one gives a shit what YOU think, either.
um…roger…why didn’t the 50,000 strong union members take down the “20 or so ” violent anarchists????
it’s a thinker………
Fuck you, Roger, you worthless old fart! Nobody gives a shit whether you’re dead or alive, asshole!
Eat shit and die!
re 45: “liberal trash…you just don’t get any more stupid than that….”
So your cop son can read the minds and divine the political orientation of the people who give him crap.
I’d hate to run into that shithead son of yours.
Most cops protect and serve, but one with the predisposition that you describe in your son makes him worse than the criminals he’s trying to catch.
re 49: Sure your name isn’t “Cat Groupthink”?
re 48: You mean the cops’ Union? We should break the cop union and pay cops less.
And if these Skylarking GUMMINT workers (cops) don’t shape up, we want VOUCHERS to buy our own PRIVATE COP FORCE.
Unions need private security armies so that when management uses illegal union busting techniques, we can attack them with wooden batons, rubber bullets, and tear gas.
Union busters are, after all, willfully breaking the law and they’ll just be getting what they deserve!
headless lucy says @28:
“These Police are nothing but “GUMMINT” employed UNION MEMBERS. They are doing a terrible job and our communities should be able to fire them and get GOVERNMENT VOUCHERS to hire our own private police.”
Lucy – interesting theory…Please apply it other situations such as: The teachers union is doing a terrible job…fire them and hire our own private teachers…
My God – you sound exactly like anyone else who disagrees with the Union powers that are. Fire them and get rid of the Union…. They are so bad…. Are you a closet Republican? You certainly sound like one!
No argument. Police and firefighters routinely put up with abuse from citizens that goes far beyond anything that could be called civil behavior.
This does not excuse improper behavior on their part, and I’m sure that both of your sons and your nephew will confirm that.
Uh, because the union members were unarmed and nonviolent?
Would a minute number of violent agitators, with the non-violent folks moving away from them justify spraying the whole group with potentially lethal weapons fire? (There have been seven recorded fatalities from “rubber bullets”.)
And more to the point, while there have been some claims of demonstrators throwing barricades at Police, there is no evidence of this. No Police photos, no videos, nothing (so far), and even if there were isolated incidents like this, why didn’t the Officer simply arrest the individual?
Why are we using potentially lethal force against non-violent protesters?
http://slate.msn.com/id/1006194/
ME: First time for agreement.
Watch it now. Loocie is a union teacher. You be stepping on his petard. He claimed to be a wrasslin coach. We wondered what he did to them little wrasslers!
Okay, let’s try this at a 3rd (liberal) grade reading level. Goldy and people on this blog are accusing the Police of wrongdoing. They are doing so based on only part of a story, and without sufficient evidence of these acts. Remember that whole innocent until proven guilty deal?
The fact is, the vast majority of protesters are nonviolent and are exercising their right to freely assemble and use their right of freedom of speech. The fact is the vast majority of Cops are good solid hardworking people who are doing the job because they want to make a difference. But in both cases, there are bad apples among the good. Not only is it plausible, that 1 or 2 protesters intentionally acted wrong, in order to provoke the response from the Police, but it has been done numerous times before. Failing to do what a Police Officer tells you to do, results in that Cop forcing you to comply.
Mr. Barelli, your assertion that because rubber bullets have killed seven people, and is therefore lethal force is asinine. Use of rubber bullets and bean bags are widely accepted methods and examples of non-lethal force. You claim that there has been no evidence of people throwing barricades at police, but there has also been no evidence to the contrary. 1 video, that does not show the entire incident is not evidence.
So the cops have no obligation to document their decision to use force? They can let fly with a fusillade of automatic rubber bullet fire and multiple canisters of gas because of the actions of 1 or 2 protesters?
The police do have an obligation to document, too bad local MSM doesn’t fulfil their obligation to document (police malfeasance).
No, with a few exceptions, we’re looking for an impartial investigation by an outside agency. The denials from TPD came very quickly, and simply made unsubstantiated claims, while the video does seem to show what the protesters say is shows.
When TPD made the initial claim that there was misconduct by the protesters immediately prior to the beginning of the video, the person that took the video immediately posted a longer version, apparently uncut, showing no such misconduct.
Do we know what happened? I don’t. Do we know that it looks suspicious and should be investigated by someone that does not have a stake in the outcome? Yes, and while one video may not be conclusive, incontrovertible evidence it is most certainly evidence, and since all that we seem to have beyond that are the conflicting statements of the parties involved, well, you should be able to see the problem.
I’d really like to simply believe that Police Officers never lie to protect their jobs or image, and that Police Departments never simply back up their people without bothering to check the evidence. Unfortunately, there are a number of cases that prove that it does occasionally happen.
As to my allegations of the lethality of rubber bullets and tear gas. I did post a link to the article claiming seven deaths in the United States (there are others elsewhere) due to the use of rubber bullets. You are welcome to believe that seven deaths are acceptable, but I do not.
The claim about tear gas is simply from my own training in the use of tear gas, while I was on active duty. We were taught that it was only to be used as a last resort, and if we were exposed, to seek medical attention immediately, as a number of people had died from it.
Certainly both tear gas and rubber bullets are better alternatives than using live ammo, but they are still only for use as a last resort, when other methods fail and the situation requires an immediate resolution.
So, if you want someone to stand with you against the “we know what happened, let’s hang them” crowd, I’ll be happy to join you. We need to hold to the principle of “innocent until proven guilty”.
But what do you have against the idea of an impartial investigation?
This is a dark video that effectively proves nothing.
Yet I have seen people make claims on both sides of the issue that are unsupported. I saw no kids, I did see people sitting but i could not tell if they were blocking the street, and I saw barricades on the ground, but never saw who threw them.
Sorry nothing in the video proves anything to me one way or another.
oh. I did see Elvis.
I love it when libtards eat each other. Tacoma, another bastion of libtardism, getting whupped up by de ASSWipes here. Personally I think it’s great to see peeps who are blocking the materiel to support our troops being shown for what they are. Haters!
We should have zoning laws which would allow unlimited protesting in certain areas. That way the protesters can have their protests without threat of police violence. How about making MLK way in the Ranier Valley be a “protest zone” and just let the protesters fend for themselves. I love it. Is anyone with me.
lucy [still stupid at #50]…….um, lucy “dear” are your reading skills this poor? let me guess…school teacher in seattle?
you said “So your cop son can read the minds and divine the political orientation of the people who give him crap.”
as i said before…and you didn’t bother to read before the knee JERK [accent on jerk] reaction to type kicked in…two of my sons are firemen. MY NEPHEW is a cop in a crime infested area, where thanks to bleeding heart liberals like yourself that can barely read [and prove it daily]he has to take crap from the scum of the earth.scum that should be taken out of society forever.
and lucy….he KNOWS they are liberal scum because of their actions. you know the old saying don’t you?
actions speak louder than words?
and here is john [i can’t sell a house] barelli talking about rubber bullets that have killed seven [7!!!!!!!!] people and so should be considered lethal weapons. holy shit john…..POODLES have killed more than seven people.
you want to know what is really killing people john?
GANGS.
but bleeding heart liberals won’t touch them because they are mostly black or hispanic.or POOR…and we know that as the twinkie defense. if you are poor you can’t possibly have any morals because they COST SO MUCH.
i mean…is it rocket science when you see a 20 something year old guy with NO JOB driving an 80,000 dollar car and he has gang tats and what? as a stupid [beyond belief] liberal you think…hmmmm…he must have a rich daddy. good grief!
reality check? he has a trunk full of meth with your kids names on it.
how about getting tough on the real killers in our society? how about making sure they aren’t IN our society anymore? how about knocking their heads off everytime they pop them up? or at the very least …how about setting the IRS on them?
or are you just really in to having your kids use meth or get shot by someone who is?
the police have an almost impossible job where they have to see things on a daily basis that no one should ever have to see because we have become, not a tolerant society, but a foolish and entitled society.
and the liberal moron response is?
“well…they signed up for the job!”
true…but do we adults need to make their job more dangerous and impossible to do by second guessing everything they do? no.
this isn’t the 1930’s anymore. the cops aren’t out to get you. and if you believe they are you need your head examined.
or a vacation at western state.
Even if the police in this incident did photograph and video tape things, why in the world would you think they would publish it? They film that stuff for their evidence in case they get sued by the crybaby hippies at these events.
Have you seen the other videos on youtube that clearly show the protesters fighting with the police line, and then getting lit up with pepper balls or rubber bullets or whatever they used? They deserved it for deliberately attacking the police. The “peaceful” videos pick up right after that event.
The only people who whine about police using force are the ones who are on the deserving end of it.
I’m the one who posted the YouTube videos.
I’ve just posted another one which exposes the Tacoma PD spokesperson who LIED about the barricades being thrown at police.
Watch that video HERE:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xyYDYVosjYE
I’m going to the Tacoma City Council as soon as I can because they shouldn’t be allowed to flat-out lie to the professional media like that.
WATCH THIS VIDEO:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xyYDYVosjYE
Tacoma Police are covering up lies, dishonesty and they are NOT faithful to the law!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xyYDYVosjYE
You know what acumensch? I’m sick of hearing your whiny little bitch ass complain about everything. take your hippie liberal views and shove them up your ass. i hope the police give you the fucking beat down you deserve.
christmasghost
So, what do you have against the idea that there should be an independent investigation?
Oh, and if the Police start shooting poodles at people, I’ll be against that too, if there isn’t a good reason for it.
As to the rest of your post. You see a twenty-something black kid driving a nice car, and somehow think that the Police should be able to pull him over without probable cause? “Driving while black” is reason enough?
Your comment:
First, how can you tell by just looking at him that he has no job?
Second, I can’t usually see “gang tats” on the driver of a car when I’m driving.
Third, how do you tell the difference between an $80,000 car driven by a gang member, and an $80,000 car driven by a rap singer, and an $80,000 car driven by someone who has a rich father?
Oh, of course! They’re all black, so it doesn’t matter! Go ahead and bust all three! After all, rap music is evil and if the kid isn’t into selling drugs, then the father must be, because he’s black!
christmasghost, you are a bigot.
Oh, and Mr. Retarded:
You think that because acumensch filmed the Police that the Police should “give him the fucking beat down he deserves”?
Wow. Are you opposed to the entire Constitution, or just the Bill of Rights? You should get together with christmasghost. She doesn’t seem to like the thirteenth, fourteenth and fifteenth Amendments. But, she thinks having the Police use tear gas and rubber bullets against unarmed protesters sitting in the street is just ducky.
I believe using tear gas and rubber bullets against unarmed protesters sitting in the street is just ducky too. they were told to disperse and didn’t. i didn’t say he deserves a beat down for posting the videos, i say he deserves a beat down for being a whiney bitch who thinks the world seems to owe him something.
I was about to write a long response to Mr. Retarded, but changed my mind. His post simply speaks for itself.
groovy Mr Barelli, I’m glad you didn’t stoop to my level.
you know what else you should do is contact your congressman and tell him what a bunch of bitches the police were to you, i’m sure they care
Retarded, you’ll be featured in my book! There were so many whiney bitches around, but they were all Republicans; and you failed the literacy test to be a Republican, so you’re interesting. In the clinical sense.
jenna i’m super happy that i can be a prime example of someone who is in touch with reality.
I keep having to clarify this in various places:
The protesters weren’t even blocking the road that the vehicles were coming in on. The cops were. The vehicles were being moved behind the barricade and were not being impeded in any way.
here’s the difference – the cops are legally allowed to block the road; it was done for the safety of the troops, vehicles, protesters, and police themselves. the protesters were blocking the railroad tracks and the entire intersection where traffic was still allowed.
Jeez, I stirred up a real tempest in a teapot, didn’t I? I posted what KING-TV reported. I don’t think KING is particularly biased on this subject, and they reported that the next day’s protests were remarkably peaceful. Anyone has a problem with me, fine, tough shit. I posted what I heard and saw KING reporting, and if anyone has a problem with that they can kiss my ass. I won’t back down from anyone.
I will re-state my position on this issue.
I oppose this idiotic war.
I oppose this administration.
I support the right to protest – peacefully.
But when the SCUM shows up, and the SCUM attempt to do something that could potentially endanger the lives of our soldiers by trying to deny them the supplies they need, I am all for the police kicking ass and taking names. The SCUM like to bait the police into action, then scream ‘police brutality’ into the nearest camera (usually their own) as they get the beating they asked for. The SCUM provide nothing to the debate, other than tarring all who oppose this fiasco with the brush of their involvement.
If you don’t like my opinion, fine. It’s a free country after all. If you don’t like what’s going on in DC and in Iraq, change it.
BUT DON’T ENDANGER THE TROOPS!
I’d rather they be home tomorrow. I’d rather they never have gone at all. But soldiers do as they’re ordered, never mind the consequences. And what are they? My daughter-in-law is a wreck with her husband (my younger son) in Fallujah as we speak. My wife is worried sick. Literally. Her oldest son survived a tour, and given the fact that he’s in Intelligence, he could be there now and we wouldn’t even know until he comes home.
I just want them home. And not in pine boxes. But I won’t endanger the troops, and I can’t understand anyone who thinks that ‘direct action’ (read: starting riots during a peaceful protest) accomplishes anything other than violence and destruction where none was necessary. Gee, doesn’t that sound kinda like what the Bushies have done to this world?
BTW Goldy, I never even suggested that you should’ve gone to the PoT to ‘get yours’. I think that would’ve been one of the trolls. I do find it really weird and unsettling that they agree with me. But the facts are out there. What happened, happened. If those who were there peaceably got hurt in the riot, I feel bad for them, I really do. But don’t blame the cops, because they didn’t start it. Blame the SCUM who wanted to ‘fight the man’, the benighted idiots.
Yes, they’re SCUM, and they always will be in my book.
To Not Retarded (but who actually is retarded though):
I think it’s interesting how people like you assume that just because I’m very much against the war in Iraq that I’m a “hippie liberal”. Ha! Do you know what libertarianism is? Or are you too retarded?
It’s violent, potty-mouthed bumpkins like you (regardless of ideology) that never seem to get anything right.
Anyone care to define ”hippie liberal” for me. Let’s get a list going.
1) smokes weed?
2) is possibly a socialist?
…?
So far I don’t fit the description at all.
Here’s another video of a friend of mine at the port:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=qy03oiVDS1o
Broadway Joe,
No. Police did instigate this. They then filed false reports to cover it up. I went to City Council today to clear this up, but since they adjourned early I didn’t make it. Watch this video:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xyYDYVosjYE
No thanks. Not interested.
You can’t change my mind. They got what they deserved, just like the SCUM got when they started the WTO riots.
Oh, and you have the balls to claim conspiracy against the City of Tacoma? I sure hope you don’t live there.
Yeah that is all bullshit acumensch. He may have been briefed incorrectly about the barricade throwing starting it, but barricades certainly were attempted to be thrown. you can clearly see a person picking up a barricade in the smoke and then get tagged with the pepperball guns (the rapid fire sounding ones). there were other barricades that you SCUM (thanks Broadway for the good term) had run past in attacking WSP that was on the line. Don’t ever advance on a police line and expect to get a hug. That guy that wrestled with the officer was lucky he didn’t get the beat down of his fucking life. It was funny to watch him get lit up with pepper balls though.
Good luck suing the city on this. And no, the burden of proof does not lie with the city. If you are going to sue the city for whatever stupid reason you have, you will have to proove that the officers acted without cause. The crowd was told to disperse and did not, which is why they gassed the shit out of you guys. I’m sure that is all documented as well. Believe it or not, the TPD and other agencies are good departments with honest and good working people. I’m sure that they are all tired of putting up with your bullshit too, and I’m surprised you guys got off as easy as you did.
One thing is for sure, if you don’t like it, don’t come back. I hear Olympia lets you get away with more shit.
If I’m scum, then tell me what you two do for a living. I’d really like to know. Then I’ll tell you what I do and we’ll if either of us fits the description.
Can we get a list going for “scum” too?
No. The burden of proof lies with them since they’re making to positive claim. They have footage. So why don’t they use it to prove how these “scum” provoked them by throwing big, orange, invisible, incorporeal barricades at them.
So about hippies… like I said I bet it surprises you that I’m an enlightened capitalist doesn’t it? Call me an elitist if you want, but “hippie” just doesn’t work for me.
oops. there are some hasty grammar mistakes.
Broadyway Joe,
Yeah I do have the balls to do that, and this is my city.
Ok, one thing I’ve noticed missing in this argument is something I thought so basic that it was understood by all.
The First Amendment
Not the right to assemble when we agree with them. Not the right to assemble unless it’s inconvenient.
I’ve accused some on both the right and the left of being “knee-jerk” on either liberal or conservative issues, and have realized that I too have one area that is so long-settled for me that I approach being knee-jerk myself on that topic.
The Constitution of the United States of America.
Personally, I think that the protesters are misguided. They’re protesting the wrong thing in the wrong place.
But neither I nor the Police have no right to make that decision for them.
If individuals within the group break the law, then the police may arrest them. If the assembly as a whole (not simply isolated individuals) begin to destroy property or threaten violence, then (and only then) the Police have the right to disperse the assembly.
Like all rights guaranteed by the Constitution, the right of assembly is to be interpreted in the broadest possible terms, and any infringement is to be done in the least intrusive way possible.
For those who accuse them of “not supporting the troops” let me quote you an important little phrase that each and every one of those Soldiers has repeated at least once, (and I have repeated many times):
They have the right to assemble. Even when they’re wrong
Felix says: “Not a dime of your money goes to the WEA, unless you are a member who pays dues.”
Tax dollars pay teachers who pretty much have to pay union dues.
Call it what you will, but the public are paying to support the WEA.
acumensch, did you grow up in tacoma, or are you simply a UPS student? If you grew up in tacoma, then disregard the following. If you are simply a UPS student from out of town, then this is not your city. If you plan to live here after you graduate, then you can call it your city. Until you pay taxes for living here, it ain’t your city, you’re simply a visitor.
The protesters were saying “not in our port” and had signs that said that. A vast majority of them are from out of town, many even out of state. And as far as I could tell, I think the police seemed to own you and the port last week.
Now with that said, let me say that I do not disagree with the whole peaceful assembly thing. If the protesters were all peaceful and did not threaten the police or military, then I have no problem with that. And I’m not saying all of the protesters did that either. The problem with protests is that Anarachists show up to cause trouble, and it reflects poorly on the whole crowd. There were definitely anarchists at these protests, and they were the ones causing all of the problems, and then running away when things got hairy.
You are not an anarchist as far as I can tell, but you do seem to be very self-righteous and think you are better than everybody, and I do have a problem with that. And if you don’t believe me, your video proves it, especially with the extremely biased editing (and yes, no matter what you say, it is biased).
The world owes you nothing, everything in this life you have to earn. And, no, TPD has nothing to prove. You’re the one making the allegations of brutality, and if you want to take it to court then that is one of your rights as a citizen.
As far as the term “hippie” it is a generic term that I tend to use with your kind. You can call yourself a tree-hugger or liberal bitch if you want, whatever is more to your liking.
Oh, and I love your response to my name in #79, it makes you sound super intelligent there big guy.
John, I really appreciate you for standing up for assembly and speech freedoms, even if you don’t agree with the protesters.
You’re a real American.
That said, I read in a TNT editorial that said the protesters should be at the capitol building, changing lawmaker’s minds. Sure. But what is happening at the capitol building this week? Is there something special this week we could persuade lawmakers about? I’m not sure. But everyone knows that half the Strykers going to Iraq are shipping from Tacoma. So protesting in Tacoma makes perfect sense.
I’m from Federal Way originally. It shouldn’t matter anyway, but because I live here now I actually do pay property taxes–which makes up 30% of Washington’s revenue.
Like I said, call me self-righteous, call me biased, call me an elitist, because yes I am all of that. I have no problem with that. I believe in what I’m saying. I believe in ending the war. Of course I think my point of view is justified.
You’re not going to win an argument with me by saying essentially “you believe in what you’re saying, so you can’t be right.”
You haven’t defined “hippie”. Is not my list correct? And since you think everyone who is anti-war is a “hippie” then explain what libertarianism is. You haven’t told me what you do for a living yet either.
Look, I travel along West Coast for college debate tournaments, and I don’t really want to continue debating so unproductively with you unless you have something good to say.
How ignorant can you people possibly be? Did I ever say that yelling fascist means you can instantly get arrested? No. Did I say that they can use force if you yell fascist? No. What I said was, normally when someone is yelling fascist they are doing something rather hostile. The fact is that you can not see who yelled it and you can not see where the police who threw the tear gas are. I never said that free speech should be lost, I was giving an example on how you can sometimes tell someones mood by there speech. Someone who is being peaceful doesn’t normally yell at fascist. There was something going on to the side where the other police were, and none of you know what it was. So how about you grow up, and realize that you cannot always be right.
acumensch,
I looked at your videos, and while I understand your contention, you have to understand that the videos prove nothing. You contend that the videos do not show anyone throwing a barricade, and you are right.
But you cannot authoritazively prove a negative, and the video scope is so narrow that there is plenty of argument that outside of the videos view any nimber of acts could have happened.
You very well could be right.
But you cannot prove it, or at least you have not thus far, and the burden isn’t on you anyway. The police have the burden of proof to meet, in order to prosecute.
Likewise your friends video on the peaceful culture, that is encouraging but as it only speaks for one persons words, it is again only anecdotal.
Just my 2 cents.
In fact, looking at this link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....38;search=
There were protesters throwing the canisters back at the police.
Not only were they throwing the canisters back at the police, they were running around with the barricades, so it’s perfectly believable they were chucking them. Watch the crowd they throw them back a couple of times.
LSU,
I agree with you. I cannot prove a negative.
But the video meets the burden of rejoinder, and challenges the Tacoma PD to meet the burden of proof, which they must in order to actually, legitimately say protester threw barricades.
My friend, Charlie, who spoke to police in the other video is how members of Tacoma SDS feel about the protest. The people who shout hot-headed invectives at police are not from Tacoma SDS. Some come from Oregon or Olympia. We don’t know everyone at the protest.
Tacoma SDS is one of the main groups that founded the PMR movement.
Thanks.
strawgate,
True, cannisters were thrown back.
However, police contend that barricades were thrown BEFORE any gas cannisters were launched at them. That, my friend, is false.
@2 Brew – sitting 3000 miles away but I couldn’t agree with you more…..what kind of protest sits in the middle of the street in the wee hours of the night. What was the purpose of the protest? Was that an American Idol audition tryout? Seemed to me like they were looking for a fight. But I am Republican and lie, cheat and steal when I’m not being a crying hypocrite or a family man (fat whore).
Things must be really bad out West.
Before the incident occurred, Why were the protestors so angry with the police? What did they have to do with starting a war? Seems to me that they got what they deserved. And I’ve been called a liberal. That one bitch should have kept her mouth shut. Peacful? They were a bunch of lousy disrespectful singing idiots! Idiots like that give sensible people that might be against the war a bad name. Next time stay home and shut the fuck up!
Today, around 70% of the population is against the war. What a way to turn 69% of the 70% in the other direction. Some people have no common sense.
The reason why they were upset in the full-footage video is because about 10 minutes earlier, everyone was shot with rubber bullets for blocking the street.
They were upset and a lot of them are obnoxious. Does that mean you can gas them, and then say that they threw barricades at officers?
Someone specific gave the order to use tear gas. Where is the city council on this?
There was something going on to the side where the other police were, and none of you know what it was. So how about you grow up, and realize that you cannot always be right.
The police were standing in a line formation. I was on the far right hand side of that line. They said I was okay where I was standing, I know, because they told other people to move back and they said I was okay. I’m the one with holding camera #1, by the way. I’m not there as an “active” protester because I try not to speak to people unless I have to. I just observe and film.
Nothing was happening in the middle of the street where the “fascist” remark came from. By nothing I mean there were no big movements or gestures. They weren’t doing anything non-violent from the middle of the street. I would have seen it and filmed it. We also have 3 other camera angles which also don’t show barricades being thrown.
So, none of you were there, but nobody except John admits to the possibility that the police are dishonest about their facetious reports?
Look, I’m taking this to City Council and I spoke to the detective/spokesperson. I’m just letting you know how confident I am that these reports actually are facetious.
Police have absolutely no right to lie about events to breakup a protest and violate speech and assembly freedoms.
The italics are strawgates statements.
Reply to 103:
They didn’t just shoot at them for no good reason the first time either. The police told them to back off the police started pushing and a couple of people started fighting with them. Thats perfectly acceptable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....38;search=
Then when they are all sitting down, they are clearly doing it so that the police cannot push them back any farther. This is clearly illegal as they are disobeying a simple order from a police officer.
The whole thing then escalates when the dumb ass protesters decide, “Hey I wonder what would happen if we just threw the canisters back at the police!”
john…it is you that are the bigot. boy, john boy, you sure do take the bait like a striper!
did i say the 20 something guy in the 80,000 dollar car was BLACK?
nope…i didn’t. you ASSUMED it.
who is the bigot now?
and these little creeps at the “protest” got exactly what they deserved.and here’s a heads up for all you whiny liberals…..most people are glad that they got what was coming to them……this isn’t 1967.
we remember why we lost the vietnam war….it was because of the “protests”. a war that the french and a democrat got us into….and then they both ran like girls.
really, have any of you been paying attention to what most people think?
we don’t want another vietnam.and the only way to not have another vietnam? WIN.
this war isn’t about stopping some vague threat. this war that we are in now is about our very survival.any of you that think otherwise are foolish beyond all help.
yes, war is bad, messy, and unpredictable. but sometimes, like now, it is also very necessary.
we have to kick ass and take names. we have to leave an impression on the islamo nutjobs that will last for centuries.you hurt us? we will cut you down so far that you will never get back up.
strawgate@95…great video. i couldn’t stop LAUGHING!
wow…these little “protestor wannabees” are just pathetic.
first they form a little singing [badly] army that chants old worn out crap that was stupid in the 60’s and hasn’t improved with time. and then when the tear gas starts coming in they scream for MEDICS. OHMYGOD….i could not stop laughing. here are these total chicken sh*ts, playing pretend war yelling for medics. god….evergreen state was the biggest mistake washington ever made…..and that’s saying ALOT.
and “acumensch”…what are you ?
twelve?????
please for everyone’s sake give up your [pipe]dream of becoming a great director/political mover and shaker.
you are nothing more than a joke. but you are still young.there’s still time……. stop now before you end up like goldy or john………..
Did anybody notice that when I make a case for my views, all everyone else does (with few exceptions) is make ad hominem attacks. If you had ever been on a university debate team that won first place in nationals you would know how to actually make a case for your views. But you’re the real losers here–You’re nothing but war-mongering state-huggers who think we all actually benefit from your hate-inspiring ideologies.
You want to win wars that were a bad idea to get into in the first place. “Winners” would admit to that, and since we don’t have the CREDIBILITY now to win a war of hearts & minds, our military can’t do anything for the Iraqis. You can have your wars, but NOT IN OUR NAME because we don’t need you to defend our rights by occupying a foreign country. This country was founded on the principles of Western Liberalism. Not Straussian war theory. It belongs to freedom-loving Americans who believe that individuals have rights that NO STATE can take away from them.
And all you war-mongerering bumpkins can comment on is the singing. Okay. I’m done with this pathetic blog. Seriously, “horse’s ass”? C’mon. This blog isn’t scholarly or argumentative or constructive in any way. See ya.
Thanks for posting my videos here. But I can’t waste my time on your pathetic, uneducated war-mongering and unenlightened eye-for-an-eye caveman bullcrap.
Learn something useful:
Cato.org
Mises.org
Freestateproject.org
Oxfam.org.uk
Peace.
Amen acumensch. And I’m glad you’re taking this to the city council.
Well, enjoy tilitng at your windmil, Don Quixote, er….acumensch. I’m sure that in no time at all, you’ll be that Angry Man that you always see at City Council meetings with his bundle of files and folders, waiting for his turn at the mic, eventually getting his minute to be personally ignored by the council…..
Enjoy!
GO COUGS – Baptize ORU right upside the head!
Now if I could only spell ’tilting.’
Sorry, christmasghost, but when neo-cons start talking about “gangs”, it always seems to be code for blacks and hispanics.
They never point out the skinheads and neo-Nazis, but that’s just because those folks vote with them.
acumensch,
What I find funny, is that you believe in your perceived greatness. Being apart of the UPS debate team, while it may be your biggest accomplishment in life, is really not a big deal in the real world. Paying rent, is not the same as paying property taxes, and your smugness seems to come from your own insecurity. You cloud your posts with the I am greater than you attitude, and you have done absolutely nothing to prove it. Hell, you don’t even have the testicular fortitude to join in the protest, you just sit back and film.
Even you admit that there were protesters there, that didn’t belong to your group. You cannot account for their actions.
You said
“hot-headed invectives at police are not from Tacoma SDS. Some come from Oregon or Olympia. We don’t know everyone at the protest.”
Like I have stated, it is entirely plausible that 1 or 2 protesters acted inappropriately in order to get the Police to react. That way your little protest gains more media attention. For a college student, you seem pretty ignorant.
I agree with Union Fireman. Acumensch is obviously more divine than everyone else here. It’s funny that he keeps arguing with us, even though we are much smaller than him because we have not been on an official debate team. Whoop-d-fucking-doo.
The police actions were justified, and there is video proof as strawgate in 107 says. And what is the legal time limit for dispersal? You’ve got to be joking me! That’s the biggest load of crap, kind of like the police are “required by law” to give you their badge number. I love the way the hippies make up their own laws to suit their own needs. They were told to disperse, they didn’t, so it took several minutes for the police to put their masks on, which should be an indicator that something is about to go down…
I hope you take this to the city council, you will be laughed right out. Grow up.
Oh and for the record, it doesn’t matter what I do for a living, but I am not on a national award winning debate team.
BWAAA HAHAHAHAHAHA (sorry, I felt that was necessary.)
I was the person directing the civil disobediance on the front line of the protest. I was in the middle of the front row and I can tell you that there was no violence from either the front line (the line that I was directing) or the back line because my friend was holding up the back and trying to keep order in the back.
Because we walked across the line in an act of civil disobedience those who did not wish to walk across the line just stood there watching. The people in the back were actually breaking fewer laws than we were. The cops fired the gas at them because the wind was heading towards them therefore in order to gas us they needed to gas behind us.
Some of the protesters returned the gas into us which was bad, they were uncoordinated once the weapons came out.
After reviewing the tapes several times I have come to see both sides of the issue.
The cops didn’t want to arrest us because there were not enough of them yet. There was many of them but they could not have taken the crowd if upon trying to arrest us the crowd got violent. There had been several clashes throughout the night and I see their perspective.
The protesters were trying to shut down the Port of Tacoma through nonviolent civil disobediance. We figured that if we could get through the police lines we could stop the Stryker vehicles from being shipped. Once we failed to get through we sat down in protest and waited to be arrested. We were being 100% non violent and by sitting down were actually putting ourselves in a vulnerable position.
I think the cops should have called in re-inforcements. There were hundreds of them and they could have waited until they came to have arrested us. We were sitting down and chillin’ out, no need to hurry to get the road cleared!
Just my two cents as a person who was there in the front row.
acumensch says…..”This country was founded on the principles of Western Liberalism. Not Straussian war theory. It belongs to freedom-loving Americans who believe that individuals have rights that NO STATE can take away from them.”
oh please honey! and you are in college? let me guess your major [and it sure isn’t history my friend]….could it be communications????? LOL.
and then you say you are on the debating team, and yet when confronted with an actual debate you want to grab your marbles and run. that’s rich. really. you come back when those testes drop, okay?
my family fought in the revolutionary war, they came over on the mayflower and one thing they sure as hell weren’t? liberal, you fool.
do some reading FOR YOURSELF for a change and stop being the dumb ass poster child for evergreen state …or whatever “poison-ivy league” [and that’s MY line so no stealing it….] college you attend………
“We figured that if we could get through the police lines we could stop the Stryker vehicles from being shipped.”
spoken by a liberal dumbass.
ahhh…the non violent protesters that really love our troops….really. that’s why they don’t want them to have the equipment they need.
classic example!
Christmasghost,
Please, you made yourself look very unintelligent in your post. I’m actually an economics and philosophy double major. And I feel that since you are so grossly uneducated, that I must use my “divine” and “elitist” knowledge to benefit society and by teaching the poor huddled masses on this ridiculous blog.
I noticed that you were confused when I said America was founded on the principles of “Western Liberalism”.
So here’s a history lesson: starting in the English, French and Scottish Enlightenment Age (I’m hoping you know what *that* is but you might not) the liberals (as opposed to the mercantilists and the feudalists) stressed the importance of human rationality, individual property rights, constitutional limitations on government, free-minds, free-markets, and enlightened foreign policy. But maybe you haven’t heard of names like Adam Smith, John Locke or David Ricardo. Maybe you really don’t know who Thomas Jefferson or James Madison are and what ideas they stood for.
Yes, they’re called liberals. And their tradition is Western Liberalism or Classical Liberalism. In every romance language there’s a word for it, “liberale”, “liberalisme”, “laissez-faire”. It’s different from what you think “liberal” means today. That tradition of modern Anglo-American liberalism, or “social liberalism”, began with Lloyd George, FDR and Thomas Green.
I actually do quite a bit of reading everyday. And from your comments, you apparently do not.
But I’m glad I can come down from my snowy Hyperborean mountains every once in a while to smile condescendingly upon the shuddering “conservative” masses who think war, national glory and belligerence are goods to society. Oh christmasghost, union fireman, and not retarded, might an idiotic child have taken you three out of his toybox? Small people like you need small virtues, but I am polite to you like I am to all small annoyances. Because being prickly to what is small strikes me as wisdom for hedgehogs.
we have to kick ass and take names. we have to leave an impression on the islamo nutjobs that will last for centuries.you hurt us? we will cut you down so far that you will never get back up.
My god. I can’t believe people are so deluded that they ACTUALLY think things like thus.
An eye for an eye makes the world go blind.
Acumensch,
I thought you were done with this blog because we weren’t smart enough for you. I find it funny that you aren’t really “better” than us because I see yet another response.
As you continue to grow up (for when it happens, yes, getting hair there is normal), you will see the error of your ways. At your age, it’s perfectly acceptable to be a liberal. But, as you get older, you will see it is not the way things work in the real world. Good for you for knowing the history of the word “liberal.” But, it’s time to look past that and realize what it is we’re talking about today. Liberal, hippie, tree-hugger, PETA supporters, etc. That’s the definition we’re going with today. There are Conservatives and Liberals (and others, but those are the two main parties, don’t you agree?).
I don’t give a shit how smart you think you are and how many books you read every day. Believe it or not, you are not the only educated person in this world. So you are a double major? Whoop-d-fucking-doo. I’m sure you are an intelligent person and may even have a career some day. But as far as the real world goes, you are going to have very few friends if you continue this “holier than thou” attitude you carry in all of your blogs and videos (and good luck getting a girlfriend, or in your case a boyfriend).
Believe it or not, I have a UPS education, although I must not be as smart as you because I’m not a double major. Mayb I shud go bak 2 skool and c if i kan get a betr ejukashun.
Liface,
Have you actually seen what these Islamist nut jobs do? I suggest finding video on the internet of them be-heading live persons and see the violence they are trained in since they are children.
Then you will see why we need to leave a lasting impression for centuries to come. If we don’t do that now, they will continue their ways until they rule the world (which they plan to do by 2095).
An eye for an eye.
I’ve decided that it’s better to use my “elitist” education to teach rather than to disparage.
It’s amazing how incredibly personal people are on this blog. As if nobody’s political views can be considered separate from personal artifacts. People on this blog spend too much time analyzing other people instead of actually discussing their politics or their economics. Does it really matter how much hair I have, whether I pay property taxes, whether I have a girlfriend etc.? That’s all just hot air, coming from people who make personal rather than rational judgments.
The principles of classical liberalism are essentially my core values. Modern conservatives are not classical liberals: their trade policies are neo-mercantilist and their social policies are paternalistic. I wouldn’t consider myself a “modern” liberal either because their economic views are protectionist and statist.
The republic/democrat; conservative/liberal dichotomy doesn’t work for me. And all these personality attacks are too silly to be taken seriously. Maybe you should open your eyes and see how eclectic politics can be. Nobody has to accept a particular paradigm in its entirety.
Sorry I’m too stupid to understand your last comment. Too many big words. BWAA HAHAHA