It’s sunrise in Iran, and whatever the coming day brings is likely to be both inspiring and ugly.
Monday’s march in Tehran is reported by ABC (via HuffPo) to have been five miles long. Another is scheduled for today, as well as a general strike, amidst numerous reports of dissension among some ruling hardline clerics and countless smaller protests. Some miscellany:
* The violence could have been, and may still become, much worse. And we know very little about what’s happening in cities and towns outside Tehran, 19 of whom were also set to have Monday demonstrations.
* Almost all of our knowledge is coming via Twitter. (#iranelection is the go-to feed.) Iranians are beating the censors — who’ve shut down cell phone operation as well as Internet access — by phoning out of the country to proxies who are tweeting for them. And you, yes, you, can help: go here to find out how to become a proxy.
* Lest you think this phenomenon is an accident, the Mousavi campaign has been promoting the slogan “One person = one broadcaster.” And the international connections thus made are themselves a major, unprecedented phenomenon likely to have important political and cultural consequences.
* American media on this has been just dreadful, when it’s cared at all. A lot of print media today had a tone similar to this appalling NYT “news analysis” that treated the election as a done deal and the protests as essentially irrelevant. (They don’t involve official spokespeople, you know.) To repeat: these protests are no longer about the elections. They’re about the legitimacy of the regime. It scarcely matters whether the reported election result was accurate or not; millions of Iranians don’t think so and have had enough. That’s what matters.
Meanwhile, I heard an ABC Radio “national newscast” this afternoon (on KOMO-AM, Seattle’s self-billed only all-news radio station) that, just before the end of the newscast, devoted one sentence and about five seconds to a story that is riveting the world concerning a country the U.S. has major foreign policy issues with. And CNN’s Larry King, always with his finger on the pulse, devoted his show tonight to….American Idol.
* The always-astute BooMan makes a useful point:
The 1979 revolution in Iran took over a year to unfold….each clash with protesters that resulted in fatalities led to new more impassioned protests as people gathered for funerals and memorials. It’s often said that the revolution advanced in 40-day stages, as forty days is the traditional period of mourning in Iran’s culture. Americans are not accustomed to such slow-motion revolution with massive (over month-long) pauses. Add to this, the new 24-hour news environment, and this feature of Iran’s political and religious tradition should solidly flummox most analysts….Even if things calm down and appear to settle out over the next few weeks, forty days from now you could see a seemingly spontaneous re-eruption of street protests….This attempt at revolution cannot be considered as over until we seem calm sustained for a very long time.
Not sure what is the concern about domestic coverage. Even the NYT is covering the social networking phenomenon.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06.....wt=nytimes
@1: “It is easy for Twitter feeds to be echoed everywhere else in the world,” he said. “The qualities that make Twitter seem and inane and half-baked are what makes it so powerful.”
Verrrrrry Interesting!!!!
The function of liberal blogs is to be non-plussed over the slow and unresponsive traditional media. The fact that the Iranian people took a lame and half baked thing like twitter and put it to serious use is almost as significany as Tom Paine and the printing press — which is still used to pump out bibles more than anything else.
The coverage in the US media is beyond appalling. Just an hour ago I watched as CNN described the protest in Tehran as “numbering in the tens of thousands”, and treat the election as more or less valid. They showed the now iconic picture of the protester who had been shot to death by militias and said it showed someone who “may have suffered a head injury”. There has, of course, been no mention of the brutal late night attack on the University in Tehran, or the reports of students killed in that attack. They seem to genuinely not know a thing about the situation on the ground, nor do they seem to have even a modicum of interest. Perhaps they are waiting for a white girl to get killed before they find the story relevant.
@3 One gets the impression western media have no resources on the ground in Iran, and are getting their news from the same places we are.
The average American probably cares more about whether Brad and Jen get back together than whether Iran’s mullahs get overthrown by angry mobs.
@5: And a big part of the blame is the newsmedia and the lame coverage. This is one of the most important movements in the world in the last 30 years. This is the Iranian people rising to throw off the yoke of the oppressive mullahs. The corruption, the economic mess, the embarassment of Ahmadinejad and finally the false election results have led to this point. This people’s revolution may or may not succeed, but it is truly historic.
Thankfully, we have Obama in office and not the idiot Bush administration. America is staying out of it and Obama’s statement that it is for the Iranian people to decide and his outreach to Muslims have prevented the Mullahs from blaming the great “devil” – the US.
This allows ordinary Iranians to now go after their own government – without the bogeyman of the US being a factor.
@6
The MSM isn’t covering it because they havn’t gotten their marching orders from the White House yet. Likely because Obama hasn’t figured it out yet.
Amateur hour on the international stage is always so appalling.
I don’t disagree that doing nothing might be the right answer, but a little spine from the POTUS might be a nice change from the apologizer in chief.
@7 “Amateur hour on the international stage is always so appalling.”
That’s nothing compared to amateur hour on this blog when trolls parade their stunning ignorance. So far, President Obama’s handling of the situation is picture-perfect — what a nice relief from the incompetence of the buffoons of the previous administration.
@8
Handling is a verb, implying action, of which there has been none. I think you need to revisit your statement.
@7: A true idiot: Delbert
If you were not so laughably stupid, it would be funny to read the idiot comments you make.
Did you forget the inept Bush administration and their pathetic attempts to inject themselves into the Iranian elections the last time (worked soooo well, Ahmadinejad got elected after being behind in the polls)?
Did you forget the inept Bush administration name calling?
Did you forget the universally despised John Bolton – who was even hated by our own allies and never won confirmation from the Senate?
Did you forget the weak and inept Bush record on Iran nuclear proliferation (all talk and no action)?
Wow, what an ignorant fool you truly are.
Obama is hitting just the right notes on Iran and Bush played all the wrong ones. You have your head in the sand.
That is, assuming you even have a head.
I can’t believe how gullible you left wing-nuts are…
Compare the pics of iran to the pics of los angeles last night.
The iranians are celebrating another Los Angeles Lakers championship.
Oops, maybe I shouldn’t gloat when seattle doesn’t even have a nba team anymore.
mo greenburg stole 4.3 billion from aig’s retirement. oh, what a suprise
@12
marvin,
you’re wrong about the iranians celebrating. they’re not iranians, actually they’re the tea party protestors who figured the msm wasn’t covering them here, so they figured they’ed get more pr in iran. they were pretty much told they didnt have a right to protest in the us, given they were mostly white and christian, so they figured pretending to be muslim the msm would love it.
Geov,
I do not know what the media could do NOW that is better. However, what they should have BEEN doing all along is explaining more about how Iran works.
I would bet that most Americans do not understand the difference between an Iranian Ayrab and a Farsi Mullah!
re 7: Then we should look to Fox for the real news? After all, they are getting the real marching orders from Rush Limbaugh.
Plutarch
An imbalance between rich and poor is the oldest and most fatal ailment of all societies.
Whether you like him or not, Andrew Sullivan has been covering this relentlessly on his blog at The Atlantic.
This is truly a revolution from the bottom up, with the people as broadcasters, and Twitter and cellphone video as the broadcasts. Meanwhile, Fixed News bleats that Obama wants Ahmadinnerjacket to win. No, Ahmadinnerjacket’s neocon brothers-in-arms want him to win so they can still try to have their war to end the world.
Again NutsTooTight went there:
Even after Puddy posted fact after fact from the libtard BBC showing the people voted for Whackminojob because of corruption and poverty the last time you tried this lie, you still are using the same stupid lying mantra. Why do you do that NutsTooTight? Why do you enjoy being a fool? Are you striving to be a bottom ladder mental rung dweller with rujax and clueless wonder?
Since the libtards can’t remember CNN and Eason Jordan and why Jordan and CNN kissed Saddam’s ASS with strange reporting when they were in Baghdad, maybe CNN doesn’t want to be kicked out of Iran by telling the truth!
Keep being a dope alive NutsTooTight.
Despite all the usual childish insults from the far right/left at each other on this post, the point is still valid. This is a real revolution. As such it may or may not succeed. It’s a messy complicated thing. And our “news” does tend to over simplify this stuff to a ridiculous degree. “ALL” Muslims are the same, all Iranians are the same…they all hate freedom and want to destroy America. Bullshit. That’s like saying ALL Americans murder blacks and want to destroy Norway. It’s just retarded. There is local, region and world politics in action here. But I’m sure something shiny (Britney Spears) will dangle in front of our nation news and they’ll forget all about it. Or maybe another pretty blond girl can get kidnapped so we can follow that story breathlessly for 4 years.
re 20: Define ‘far left’. That, in itself, is a jibe.
There are no representatives of the ‘far left’ here. You identify yourself as a sock puppet by making such statements.
Concern Troll?
The only thing that’s going to change Iran is Iran. We need to stay out of other countries’ affairs.
Puddy @ 19 said: “…maybe CNN doesn’t want to be kicked out of Iran by telling the truth!”
Please identify a CNN reporter who is actually in Iran. Most western news outlets are barred from Iran, except by special permission for a limited time period. That’s why the lady journalist (I forget her name right now) was recently tried in Iran for “spying” on the regime and reporting to “foreign powers”, which is pretty much the official Iranian definition of journalism.
Of course it would seem like that to you. To the left of you is only a small distance which explains why you cant’t see it.
Did you know headless the racist is a proud socialist? Or isn’t a socialist to the left of you?
It makes sense that even though the resistance is in opposition to a regime that is at loggerheads with the United States government–that there would be downplayed media coverage.
I can’t imagine a situation where a county had a cooked election where the opposition didn’t lift a finger. Nor can I imagine it in a fundamentalist country, where 2/3 of the population believes in fairy tales like “divine intervention”. Can’t imagine all of that, in a place where the police apparatus, both local and federal, write and interpret the laws arbitrarily with guns and tasers. Or a place where many levels of government are silent as extremists carry out religious assassinations on secular doctors and guards of historical museums.
No, if Amercians lived in such a place, we would surely do something more then e-mail unresponsive congressional leaders and hire lawyers, while the younger folks politely waved signs, making sure that nothing gets out of hand.
But everything is fine here, which is the obvious reason why we don’t see general strikes, riots, and the occupation of government buildings.
And there are many many more examples of this. Your “facts” are just BS Puddy.
Get a life. Stop being a total fool and ignoring reality.
Viking Poop:
If you are a “progressive” you are from the far left.
Any Questions?
Looks like Puddy gotta find those BBC stories again NutsTooTight. There were three of them NutsTooTight. How do you know NutsTooTight is lying? His fingers are on the keyboard.
Here is sumtin new just found:
Exactly what Puddy said before but as always with your NutsTooTight, he can taste their secretions in his mouth and his brain gets confused.
To continue and pile on to NutsTooTight:
Golly that’s what Puddy wrote earlier.
@ 9
Handling is a verb, implying action, of which there has been none.
Well, there’s direct action and indirect action. There’s been plenty of the latter, surely you don’t believe that the Germans would summon the Iranian Ambassador without having first done some back-channel consulting with other members of the UN Security Council, which would imply that you think some form of direct action is necessary. That’s a little difficult given that the previous President has killed any and all opportunity for diplomatic relations, so I’m left to wonder, exactly what kind of direct action do you have in mind?
So, please enlighten us. Explain exactly what direct action you think President Obama should take, and explain how the action you propose would serve to improve US-Iranian relations, help to resolve the nuclear proliferation issue, and not actually make matters worse.
Butt wait NutsTooTight there is more:
So easy to destroy this reTARD!
And there’s even more. How’s the tast NutsTooTight?
All this and more was previously presented to NutsTooTight. Butt NutsTooTight has to keep a mantra of arrogance to feeeeeeeeeeeeeeel good. Facts and NutsTooTight are like poles on a magnet. They never seem to get close!
Here’s something I heard that makes a lot of sense in evaluating what’s happening in Iran: Watch the security guards and soldiers.
When the Berlin Wall collapsed, East German soldiers stood around and let it happen. They had had enough too, so they left alone the West Berliners who chipped at the wall and eventually tore big hunks of it down. In prior years, such action would have brought a hail of bullets – not this time.
In Tiananmen Square, on the other hand, the Red Army butchered demonstrators and crusched whatever nascient movement was underway.
Consider also Hungary in 1956, the former Czechoslovakia in 1968, Myanmar over the past few years, and others. If the central authorities have control over on-the-street security forces, it’s pretty tough to beat them.
What does Iran resemble? That may be the telling and determinative question.
The Piper
Poor rhp6033: He still lives on those whackjob kook-aid sites that place #CNNFail etc.
For some surreal non log infested news:
“There’s a reason the MSM is in trouble.” – Andrew Sullivan
Piper, the Iran issue is more complex. From GlobalSecurity.org another of Puddy’s favrit sites.
First there is the Army of the Guardians of the Islamic Revolution AKA the Revolutionary Guards for the progressive morons. Revolutionary Guards have their own branches of the military, along with a special forces branch of the Revolutionary Guards.
Next you have their standard army, navy, air force and air defense corps.
Then you have their volunteer forces called the basij. They are controlled by the Revolutionary Guards. So Puddy thinks it all hinges on the RGs and who do they support and obey
@24 Stamn thinks anyone to the left of puddynutz is “far left.” Puddynutz thinks anyone who is “progressive” is “far left.” I’m not sure how puddynutz defines “progressive” but it seems to include anyone who thinks workers should get at least half of the GDP, because this would mean Roger Rabbit and his capitalist buddies get less than half.
Reuters is reporting that all foreign journalists in Iran have been told they’ll be arrested if they leave their offices to try to cover what’s going on in the streets.
Pelletizer@36: There are JFK Democrats and there are Progressive Dummocrapts, you know the ones in congress who want the photographs released when just about every general has said their release will hurt the troops.
So who hates the troops again Pelletizer? Huh? Tell me!
@34…Puddy…
Understood, but somewhat beside the point. So long as ANY security force (in Iran, most likely the RG) continues to be viable in support of the regime, then it will step into whatever vacuum is created by local authorities siding de factor with protesters.
The success of the protesters is problematic without a corresponding breakdown in the authority of the regime over whatever security apparatus exists, again most likely the RG.
The Piper
@33,
That’s why we have the Second Amendment in the US Constitution.
re 24: Do you consider France, England, and Germany to be ‘far left’. I notice whaen you have nothing to say, you resort to name-calling.
And, speaking of racists, what about the Republican ‘southern strategy’. Was that to bring the progressive voices of the white, southern religious vote into the Republican fold?
You can see their young, pleasant white faces greeting their new classmates in Little Rock in the 50’s.
re 40: You represent the repressive aspect of American society. To see yourselves as potential freedom fighters is ludicrous.
You have more in common with the old racist who killed the security guard, the bomber Tim McVeigh, and the murderer of Dr. Tiller.
Just keepin’ it real for ya. Guys like you were the Royalists in 1776. The only thing your people ever used guns for was huntin’ possums and escaped slaves.
Viking Poop, still running with that old von Brunn racist being Republican. Some libtard recently said he was a registered Dummocrapt. Also he hated Bill O’Reilly, just like you and many of your HA swineflu weasel libtard friends.
You must be the alter ego of NutsTooTight!
@42,
I’ve done a lot of research into my family’s history: no slave owners, no possum hunters for at least 500 years. I can even trace some family ancestry back further than 500 years – no famous or infamous people in the tree. Just ordinary folks. Can you say the same?
If you don’t like the Second Amendment, don’t own a gun.
In the meantime, I invite you to read post # 43: the guy who walked into the Holocaust Museum was a nut case who hated O’Reilly and Fox News. Shitting Nordie, you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about, so shut the fuck up. Go stick some lutefisk up your ass you ignorant dolt!
Piper @ 39: There are lots of factions within the Iranian military, but your central thesis is correct, that it depends upon the extent to which the security forces are willing to fire upon their friends and neighbors, and the courage of the protesters to go toe-to-toe with them and dare them to fire.
In Russia, there is a history of military units carefully waiting to determine which way the wind is blowing before they commit to one side or the other in a potential civil war, this goes back several centuries. I was reminded of this in 1992 when Yeltsen sent out emmisaries to meet with the commanders of Red Army tank divisions which were converging on Moscow. Somehow or other, they were convinced to either join with Yeltsen’s reform forces, or at least to pull over to the side of the road and do nothing. That was the last curtain call for the Soviet Union.
In Romania in 1989, in contrast, you saw pitched battles between armored units. Some flew the Romanian flag from their antennas with the party emblem cut out from the center, others supported the regime until the dictators were gunned down.
In Iran in 1979, you saw security forces fighting in the streets with protesters until they perceived that the tide was irrevocably turning against them, at which point most ditched their uniforms and either dissapeared or joined the crowd.
And at Tianamen Square, initially several army units were reluctant to move against the students protesting in the square. It took several days for the Party to find units sufficiently loyal and reliable enough to mount an attack on the unarmed protesters. Reporters at the time speculated that they had to scour the Red Army for units taken principally from poor rural villages, and spend a day or two convincing them that the protesters were spoiled students from the rich and priviledged who live in the cities who were trying to grab more power and money away from the Communist party who, they claimed, was the only force which protected them from being abused by such an elite.
Back to Iran – the revolution of 1978-79 was implemented by a combination of forces – liberals, students, educated elite, communists, and conservative religous clerics – all of whom had a common enemy, the Shah. As soon as the Shah fell, however, there was a struggle for power in which the communists, liberals, educated elite, and students all lost out to the conservative religious clerics which have controlled the Iranian governmetn and society ever since.
Is this going to turn into a war between secular Iranians and the religious clerics? I have a hard time seeing the opposition prevail in such a war unless there is a grass-root movement among the lower-level clerics who want to see change themselves. The ability of those clerics to preach several times a week at the Mosques, and to know most of their local congregation personally gives them a strong grass-roots hold over their community. If they use it to support the status quo, it will be difficult for the opposition to prevail.
Dear Moron Puddy:
Wow, you cite a couple of articles that don’t prove your point. You really are easy pickins. Same old half-baked ideas with nothing to back it up.
Link: http://www.prospect.org/cs/art....._get_worse
I bolded it so maybe you will actually read the
– you know, the
ooops.
Link: http://www.payvand.com/news/05/feb/1036.html
And from an Iranian dissident who just got out of prison:
yeah, your puny “evidence” puddy is just that…puny and pathetic. Dig a little deeper and maybe, just maybe, think about how labeling a country as “axis of evil” and then claiming that the country is like the “nazis” right before their election …will throw the election to the right wingers – as even an Iranian dissident from prison writes.
An NBC reporter is saying that journalists who had short-term visas in order to cover the election are being told to leave, the few with longer-term visas are being told they will imediately be arrested if they try to film or photograph anything going on outside their offices. Internet, text-messaging, and cell-phones are being blocked. But demonstrations are still being organized by word-of-mouth.
Poor puddy – you lose AGAIN.
How many rtimes do I have to show that you don’t know what you are talking about?
When an Iranian dissident, just released from jail, details how the Bush administration SCREWED UP and helped elect Ahmadinejad…well, I tend to trust them more than your little articles that give some “general” information on the elections.
Learn to read and to think Puddy – it will really help you to understand larger trends. Something you fail to do with regularity.
Are there any commenter who are not sock puppets? Bring me to your leader!
The correct answer is to appease the mullahs because that’s what Daily Kos Nation demands. Yup!
Oh, Junior Troll Crusader! Just keep on mouthing the Lush Limpdick party line, fella. It’s just like the drunk at a party putting the lampshade on his head to get attention.
EPIC FAIL!
Now on to conversation with an adult:
Piper, you’re right about how the original Iranian revolution came about. This one is no different, because there seems to be no central belief of those in the streets. Some want a fair recount, others want Ahmadinnerjacket and the mullahs that really run the place wearing rope neckties. They all want change, some just don’t want blood. At least not yet. And this isn’t going away any time soon barring an utter massacre. Even then it likely won’t quash things for long, at least until the funerals are over. A great line I read last night was how the original revolution took place in forty-day cycles (Forty days being the traditional period of mourning in the Islamic world).
The other real catalyst here is the Basij ‘militia’ hitting just about anything that moves. But just who are they? Reports coming in from Teheran and other Iranian cities have the goons speaking Arabic instead of the local Farsi, meaning that they’re likely Hezbollah fighters brought in from training camps in the countryside and from Lebanon, while others say that the goons are Ahmadinnerjacket loyalists (also called Hezbollah) from rural Iran. I wonder if Israel would take quiet advantage of Hezbollah if their fighters were suddenly out of town for a while……
I’ll pile on and say that the media coverage of this revolt has been, well…… revolting. But the major providers have all been kicked out of the country by now, so it’s pretty much a moot point. This is revolution by Twitter and cellphone video now. And whether you like it or not, our government not saying anything inflammatory is a good thing. Ahmadinnerjacket wants, no… is praying for this to become US vs. Iran, so he can unleash the terrorists he coddles on the West, so our government’s comparative silence continues as the love child of Yasser Arafat and Yakov Smirnoff paints himself into a corner with the world, and his own people. To me the silence kinda sucks, because I’d love to see Obama let one rip on Ahmadinnerjacket and encourage the people to rise up over tyranny. But I can also see how that wouldn’t really be of much help, other than rallying the loyalists.
(NOTE: RHP, the woman you’re talking about is former Miss North Dakota Roxana Saberi, whose father is Persian.)
NutsTooTight: Puddy linked articles that were direct from the liberal Times and BBC. They interviewed Iranians.
You on the other hand whip out a Bush bashing paper the American Prospect
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Direct from the Boston Globe – “AN UNABASHEDLY LIBERAL JOURNAL THE AMERICAN PROSPECT OFFERS A NEW VOICE TO THE OLD LEFT”
What a tard