One of the more reaffirming internet stories of the past year was that of the way the online community rallied to the aid of Seattle voting rights activist Andy Stephenson, raising $50,000 in 11 days to pay for surgery to treat his pancreatic cancer. One of the more disturbing internet stories of the past year was the way some vile righties deflated the feel-good story — and successfully slowed both donations and Andy’s treatment — by launching a vicious, heartless smear campaign charging that Andy scammed his donors by faking his illness.
Well, I suppose Andy has once again proven his detractors wrong. He died Thursday at the age of 43.
I never met Andy, and was only peripherally aware of him and his activities. From all accounts he was a great guy, and a tireless activist. I share my sincere condolences with his family and friends.
But I also share their anger, as Andy’s illness and the right-wing response is a vivid example of how dirty politics can have potentially deadly results. In a post to Democratic Underground entitled “Say hello to a bottomless rage,” William Pitt displays what I believe is an appropriate response to right-wing tactics that delayed Andy’s treatment, and possibly cost him his life.
Throwing sand into the gears of the PayPal donations blew Andy off the surgery rotation, causing him to have to wait a lot longer for his operation.
Spewing the claim time and again that the whole sickness was a fraud, very publicly and on as many blogs and boards as you could find, robbed Andy of the hope and will he needed to overcome this thing.
I think you fuckers should be forced to dig his grave. I think you should be buried with him.
I kept my mouth shut about you these last weeks because every time I said something about you or to you, you got a stiffy from the attention and ramped up your viciousness again. That’s over with now.
I am going to make you famous in all the worst kinds of ways. I know your names, I know your addresses, I know your IP numbers, I have screen shots and copies of every vile statement and threat you ever made. I know everything I need to know. Get ready for the ram.
Frankly, I hope William can follow through on his threats.
A memorial service for Andy will be held at Town Hall in Seattle at 1119 Eighth Ave., on Saturday, July 16, at 2 p.m.
I reached into my pocket for Andy’s surgery. It seemed like a longshot at the time to me.
And now, what can I say, so typical of the right..
R.I.P. Andy, others will carry on the struggle.
I read about Andy’s illness and the vicious right-wing attacks in this week’s Seattle Weekly. According to SW, leading the right-wing charge was Free Republic, which surely ranks as one of the most vitriolic, violent, and dishonest right-wing blogs out there.
Andy Stephenson was a champion of voting rights and honest elections. He gave of his time and efforts without compensation to help ensure that officeholders are those who were truly chosen by the people. His work benefited Democrats and Republicans alike, and he is a loss to all of us.
I noted from the SW story that Andy has been hospitalized at Virginia Mason. I found this interesting because I was in VM at the same time, but as it happened, Andy wasn’t my roommate. I would have been proud to have him as a roommate. RIP, Andy, and rest assured others will carry on your noble work — and stand up to the right wing haters who slandered and vilified you. They must have been terribly afraid of you.
My HorsesAss friends probably aren’t aware of this, but the reason Roger Rabbit was absent from this board for about a week is because I was very ill and in the hospital with an infection that nearly killed me. I am convalescing at home now but it will be a long time before your favorite cute fluffy little bunny shows up at Drinking Liberally again. Damn thing snuck up on me, didn’t know I was sick until it was almost too late.
@ 2
Damn thing snuck up on me, didn’t know I was sick until it was almost too late.
That’s scary. Get well soon and take good care Roger. Your good humor and depth of experience is greatly appreciated and very much needed here.
wow and I’m sure Andy will rest better knowing this will be done in his memory.
that is really really sad that people used their biases to undermine a fund raiser to help save someone’s life.pancreatic cancer is a miserable disease and the last thing he needed was to have grief on top of it.
andy, rest in peace.
You know after reading about this, I never knew the guy, or heard of him but I am certainly sorry to hear of anyone dying and I do hope he is in a more peaceful and better place. That being said, I think less of Goldy for using his death as a stepping stone for inuendo about who or what might have made accusations to or about what. It is nice and easy to throw stones when no solid evidence points anywhere. Too many times when investigated, rumors like this actually started by someone close to the guy or in the same party, and for Goldy to step on this guys grave to take a shot at the “right wingers” is just cheap politics!
Agreed Chuck, well said.
Likewise on Rabbit weak attempt at getting some kind of “fuzzy Bunny” attention
chuck and prr….yes, what you say is true too….BUT we all know that it’s not just the far left that does crap like that. the far right and the far left are exactly alike.which would only be a surprise to them.
do i think it’s tacky to blame everyone but the cancer? well…yes.
and do i also admit that if this were some right winger goldy would write something about how he got what he deserved ….yup, he probably would. but that just says something about goldy.
i am sorry andy died…he followed his beliefs and stood up for them without throwing bombs. whether you agree with someone like that or not doesn’t matter…you have to respect them for it anyway.
Ghost,
I did not know Andy, so while I am sorry to hear his family is going through this, this news does not affect me.
It seems to me that Andy’s partner in crime (Bev harris) has quite a bit of blame on why Andy’s fundraising was called into question as well.
As my father once told me, you are jusged by the company you keep.
chuck, classless oafs like you are just what the right is about right now. Way to be a human being, O respecter of life.
prr- rot in hell, you bastard.
Here is a sampling of current comments on Free Republic:
“I’ll bet he will still be voting in November……….” posted on 07/08/2005 4:41:58 AM PDT by WakeUpAndVote (Member of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy since 1992!)
“Reports of his death have been largely exaggerated.
Apologies to Mark Twain.” posted on 07/08/2005 4:44:42 AM PDT by Northern Yankee (Freedom Needs A Soldier)
“Well, he’s…he’s, ah…probably pining for the fjords.” posted on 07/08/2005 4:46:30 AM PDT by csvset
“Just one question. Is there a request on DU to send money for his funeral?” posted on 07/08/2005 4:47:16 AM PDT by linkinpunk
“Andy is just ten dollars away from being buried.” posted on 07/08/2005 4:50:49 AM PDT by RoyalsFan (Freepmail me if you want on my Royals ping list)
“Did he ever really exist?” posted on 07/08/2005 6:01:13 AM PDT by Graycliff (Long haired freaky people, need not apply.)
Well, here’s one that shows the Freepers (not all of them, anyway) aren’t totally lacking in class (only most of them):
“It appears to be true. Too bad. Hey PJ… I think you owe Andy an apology. RIP Andy Stephenson – A passionate political foe” posted on 07/08/2005 7:10:36 AM PDT by Poser (Willing to fight for oil)
roger….you prove my point for me,why?
would you like me to pull up some of the obnoxious comments about the deaths or illnesses of conservatives? come on now…think about this. you are doing the same thing those people did….you are assuming that all ‘right wingers’ are alike. that’s just called bigotry…….
you are exactly like them. deal with it.
xmasg-ask chuck, prr,and pbj.
rujax206……and what about me? hm? where do you place me in this order?
Poor xmasghost- “What about meeeee! It’s all about meeeeee!”
christmasghost
Rujax never has anything cognant to say, just ignore him. He’s just a poor excuse for a liberal hack, He’s their Cynical.
Rujax206@14
You are exactly what the left can do without.
rujax206..what a sad individual you are.instead of answering a question, that was supposed to make you rethink your idiotic claims, you instead prove yet again that you cannot acually think rationally.
sad…….
Christmas-
Don’t feed the wildlife they’ll only get more persistent.
Chuckster @ 6
Sorry Bud, the word is is that some winger contacted paypal with his false fraud accusations and paypal put a hold on the check for a while. I believe Andy’s surgery was held up as a result.
If this is all true then the assholes who did this should pay dearly.
Look here,
and here
and most importantly here.
RIP Andy!
All tools here, and yet there are still screws loose..too true. i’ll remember that in the future.i guess i was laboring under the delusion that people actually wanted a dialog……..
John@21
“Sorry Bud, the word is is that some winger contacted paypal with his false fraud accusations”
Yes and it was just as likely a LEFT winger!
@ 23
BS Chuck, not one hundreth of one percent as likely and I think you know it.
I bet you’re one of the bright guys who thought a lefty tried to railroad Goldy as a pedophile.
The righty trolls are showing their true colors in this thread.
John@21
Sounds like John Hopkins could sholder some of this burden, why was another medical facility not sought?
John@24
Nope not me, unlike many of the libs I see on this post I dont report as fact rumors or insinuations and call them fact. That goes for the pediphile comment as well, that was no different that what you guys are insinuating here.
R.I.P. Andy, the fight for Democracy will continue.
@ 26
I believe it was only place in the country that could do that kind of surgery. Their policy was money up front for an out of state, uninsured patient.
Right wing, left wing, no wing at all … everyone who interfered with Andy’s care is/was a supreme, utter asshole.
The disgusting attacks by the freepers and others continued even after those who knew Andy personally informed the blogosphere that they had seen him and seen his difficulties. The disgusting attacks continued after Johns Hopkins did the surgery. The disgusting attacks continued right up until his too-early death.
Anyone who does less than excoriate the supreme, utter assholes who attacked Andy is also an asshole. Perhaps not supremely and utterly assholic, but an asshole nonetheless.
As for the Trolls here. The next time I get into a discussion with prriss, Allfools and especially chuck, I will remember their words here.
You are souless and as evil as they come. You want to see the “evil far right” just look in the mirror boys.
Donnageddon@31
You have obviously miread me in your fitfull rage, go get a life asshole
john……..okay, you have a point. but here is the other side of it. how about personal responsibility? aren’t all the lefties against “big” tobbacco because when people get sick it costs the taxpayers alot of money because these people don’t have insurance? [okay we all know it isn’t really becauase they are worried about people’s health…it’s just another tax grab]
now, i know how expensive insurance is, unreasonably so, so i am not going to judge andy for not having any.but, it did cost the taxpayers…and partly because some jackass circulated a rumor that he was faking it,and partly because he didn’t have his own insurance.using the far lefty mind game of blaming would you want to do that here? and pancreatic cancer is a horrible way to go…but you know, i can think of several prominant lefties right now that would have said “maybe he shouldn’t be such a heavy drinker” if that had happened to someone on the right.
do you see what i am trying to say? humanity is humanity. decency is decency……it doesn’t matter what “side” you are on….and blaming things that aren’t actually responsible is the game of mindless drones from the fringes……
Donnageddon…wow, are we reading the same thread? the only vile threats and comments are, as ususal, coming from you and your ilk.
try to think of people as people not as party members…it helps.
Hello.
A situation such as this makes one realize that while our ideologies might vastly differ, in the end, we are just people, prone to frailty.
I did not know Andy as well as others here might, but I will still will show my respect to a man who eviently walked the walk as he talked the talk.
And while I find it an utter disgrace how some knuckle-draggers act in response to this, I also have a decent enough memory to remember that a little bit over a year ago, the bile and vitriol was flowing just as freely from the Left over the death of Ronald Reagan as it is flowing from the Right over Andy Stephenson. It comes down to this: while we all may be human, there will ALWAYS be those who feel the only way to make themselves better is to destroy others.
C’mon, just once can we all become something better than we normally are?
Domo.
domo……..great point.wouldn’t it be great if instead of listening to verbal bomb throwers and letting them set the tone of every discussion…we all actually spent a little time putting ourselves in the other’s shoes?
god…i’m game. is anyone else?
@ 33
Ghost, the “cost taxpayers” part was very small for many on the left. The corporate malfeasance part was the big one. All of those tobacco executives misrepresented the danger posed by their product. They denied and hid as best as they could the substances that were added to cigarettes to make them even more addictive. They deserved everything they got and more!
A moderate position on health insurance is to require everyone to have it just like every driver is required to have liability. It’s very common for people with money to get sick and then stiff the taxpayer or the people who pay for insurance with the bill. If someone can’t afford insurance then the government should help out on a means tested basis kind of like eligibility for student loans. I know there’s problems with that position but it’s a good start for debate.
If a guy like Karl Rove got what Andy got then my attitude would be, “it couldn’t have happened to a nicer guy.”, because I know Rove’s track record, read “Bush’s Brain” for pete’s sake. There’s nothing “conservative” about people like Rove. I respect principled conservatives like this guy who was a Republican operative for years and became a registered Democrat because he couldn’t stomach what the Republican party had become.
People like Rove are win-at-all-costs fascists who are destroying this country. Andy was a run-of-the-mill guy who found his voice and decided to act to change things for the better
Chuck @ 32 “You have obviously miread me in your fitfull rage, go get a life assholeâ€
But chuck I read you quite well, asshole.
Chuck @ 6 That being said, I think less of Goldy for using his death as a stepping stone for inuendo about who or what might have made accusations to or about what. “
chuck @ 23 ““Sorry Bud, the word is is that some winger contacted paypal with his false fraud accusationsâ€
Yes and it was just as likely a LEFT winger!â€
Then there is that bastion of understanding and conscience, the lovely prriss
prriss @ 7 “Likewise on Rabbit weak attempt at getting some kind of “fuzzy Bunny†attention “
prriss @ 9 “It seems to me that Andy’s partner in crime (Bev harris) has quite a bit of blame on why Andy’s fundraising was called into question as well.
As my father once told me, you are jusged by the company you keep. “
And the man of compassion Trollduggery, xmasg @ 34 “Donnageddon…wow, are we reading the same thread? the only vile threats and comments are, as ususal, coming from you and your ilk. “
what about this xmas? Huh? Bastard!
xmasg @ 8 “i also admit that if this were some right winger goldy would write something about how he got what he deserved ….yup, he probably would. but that just says something about goldy. “
In conclussion, FUCK YOU TROLLS ONE AND ALL!
and
Left behind, you don’t fool anyone.
We certainly could use a litle civility here, couldn’t we. How about a moment of civility for Andy? How about treating each other as fellow human beings together in this community searching for answers to common problems? Instead on these blogs people hide behind phony made out names and say things they would never say to someone in person. They have no accountability for the truth of what they say. To me a lot of it is cowardice. In the judicial system in our coutry you have the right to confront your accuser in person. In a way, blog writing is very undemocratic because people can slander with rumor and falsehood and not be held accountable.
Andy’s fate is an example of this cowardice. I think that if people are not willing to attach their real name to their comments that they are cowards and we all should give little or no credibility to what they say. Feel free to speak up but if you are afraid someone might think ill of you if they knew who you really were then maybe you should speak and act in a more civil and respectful manner. Maybe you should temper your thoughts and consider the consequences.
I wonder, can slandering somebody and accusing them of faking an illness, and as a result of that slander the surgery is delayed needlessly, be worthy of at least a manslaughter conviction? Or is that a stretch?
I found a link that avers that a locally famous conservative blogger bought his wife from a service called “Cherry Blossom”.
Anyone who wants to is free to pursue this story.
I know how to play dirty,too.
john @37…….you are absolutely right about what the tobbacco companies did. it was wrong.so you go after them…….and not the taxpayers. make them clean up their act and if their product is too dangerous…make it illegal. but why tax it unless all you are trying to do is make money off people’s addictions. smoker’s do not cost the public more money …they cost less. they don’t live as long.
do a little reading on what is in wine and hard liquor and then you may think twice about how evel the tobbacco companies are. don’t get me wrong they are….but they aren’t alone. no one ever lit up a ciggie and mowed down a family of five. but because of alcohol and it’s misuse that happens all the time.
if you require everyone to have health insurance are you going to require that they make enough money to afford it? because of the fear of lawsuits poor kids can’t play sports in school NOW because if you don’t have health insurance you can’t play.
rich people do not get sick and stiff the hospital and taxpayers have to pick up the tab. that is completely false. hospitals nowadays have the right, and they use it, to grab money out of bank accounts…even small children’s ,to pay a bill from someone who can’t afford it. i know because this just happened to a friend of mine.
as far as all the hateful things you said about karl rove. i don’t know the man and neither do you. but i just lost alot of respect for you for saying that. it’s childish and destructive. and you know what they say? what goes around comes around……
Steve Zemke @ 39
Nice sentiments, Steve, but too sentimental. Anyone who uses their real name on a blog is a fool. Too many creeps out there.
Ghost — do some reading on Rove.
Trolls — I’m not going to post a note from my doctor to prove I was deathly sick 2 weeks ago. I owe you fuckers nothing.
@ 42
Rove has left a bad trail ghost – all I can say is read Bush’s Brain.
I didn’t say rich people (although I’m sure a few of them are guilty) – I said people with money, i.e. people who can afford health insurance but can’t be bothered to buy it for themselves.
People from all walks of life check themselves into emergency rooms when they get into trouble health wise. They can’t be refused treatment.
Here’s a little story for you. I got into trouble myself and checked myself in. I told the doctor she should call my insurance company to run things by them. She refused saying that if she had to spend time haggling with insurance companies then she wouldn’t be able to help patients.
Sure enough the insurance company determined my course of treatment wasn’t “medically necesary” and refused payment under the terms of their contract with the hospital. I was held not responsible but the hospital was stiffed anyway.
A toast to the myriad virtues of insurance company executives!
@ 42
Almost forgot. It’s a common axiom in economics that the more you tax something, the less you get of it.
It doesn’t work perfectly but in the aggregate it tends to be true even for smoking and drinking.
I didn’t like the increase in taxes on smoking and drinking but until both D’s and R’s reach across the ailse to take the heat and fix the system then the cash strapped government is going keep putting up lame revenue proposals.
john….yes, the insurance companies are all bastards. you won’t get any argument from me there. doctors have to waste so much of their time trying to deal with them now that they don’t have enough for their patients.
when your insurance company stiffed the hospital i take it you stepped in and paid?
they can refuse anyone treatment if it is not a life threatening situation i believe.emergency rooms are now over used just because doctors don’t have the time to see their patients like they used to. it’s sad….and it needs to be changed.
now about rove……let’s face it. he’s not satan. you guys just don’t like him because he is really really good at what he does. and that is screw you guys.
do i like the way modern politics work? no. but then you guys had quite a few ‘ringers’ like rove during the clinton years….and trust me, they made our skin crawl.
but are you going to convince anyone that rove is that bad? no [except the choir that already agrees with you]…..we all know it’s because he is so good at what he does that it gets under your skin and makes you furious.
personally i wish everything was different……
but then you have michael moore and moveon…you think they aren’t destructive and counterproductive in the big scheme of things?
they are.
and the worst part is….it’s like being in one big carnival. and not an amusing one either. rove and moore are the same type of person. they are after personal power with very few real beliefs of their own…except personal power grabs. so here they are getting the populace at each other’s throat so we aren’t paying attention when they pick our pockets…….
ghost – I didn’t have to pay but I felt terrible about the hospital who took such good care of me getting stiffed. It was borderline criminal.
Rove has had people thrown in jail on trumped up charges and had a part in driving one person to suicide amoung countless other dirty tricks against both Democrats and Republicans like McCain. He has no compunction about ruining lives. I wouldn’t be so sure about the Satan part.
Moore isn’t remotely like Rove. Moore is just a guy who’s good at drawing attention to himself and to his causes. I don’t agree with everything he says or does but he’s been successful and maybe that’s why he pisses the right wing off so much. People on our side (according to the wingers) aren’t supposed to be effective or successful or even have a sense of humor. I’m sure a bunch of propagandists on the winger side wish they had a tenth of Moore’s popularity.
I don’t know anything about moveon.org except that they raise a lot of money, produce TV commercials and register a lot of young people to vote Democrat. I heard some accusations of dirty pool coming from the right but I haven’t seen any proof yet.
A record number of people in the last election voted against a sitting incumbent President. In effect, they were voting against Rove. Unfortunately a record number of people voted for the incumbent and lucky for Bush, many of them hadn’t even heard of Rove.
Donnageddon @ 31,
Seriously, just shut your mouth and crawl back into your hole.
Did you get my post re; you being a fraud?
The Operation truth website/blog has ZERO record of your lying ass.
A record number of people in the last election voted against a sitting incumbent President. In effect, they were voting against Rove. Unfortunately a record number of people voted for the incumbent and lucky for Bush, many of them hadn’t even heard of Rove.
George Bush got over 50% of the popular vote in 2004. Quiz- Can you name the last three Presidents before 2004 who also got over 50% of the popular vote. Hint- They were not donks.
So, Rufus, you’re saying Leo Strauss was right?
I’ve never heard of this guy and not sure why/how the right gets tarred for his death. Shame on you guys..
christmasghost@36
I agree and I hope I have articulated just those feelings.
After reading his posts as well as trying to reason with Donnageddon, as well as seeing his seething rage, I think his party should investigate to see if he wasnt in some way responsible for the rumors that Goldy is referring to. He seems to have the same bottled up rage that it would take to initiate such rumors…
Reply to 51
The right is getting tarred for interfering with fundraising efforts on Stephenson’s behalf. He was dying of cancer, had no health insurance (like 45 million other Americans), and needed a $50,000 operation to save his life. Progressives who knew of his voting rights work raised the money on the internet in 11 days. Then right wing loudmouths began to flood the blogosphere with false accusations that Stephenson wasn’t sick and was defrauding the donors, just like they falsely accused Michael Schiavo of abusing his wife. With no evidence, no facts, just out of sheer hate. In particular, somebody contacted PayPal, which was handling the donations, and accused Stephenson of fraud. They had no evidence, no facts, just hate. People like that are despicable, beneath contempt. I hope Andy left family behind who get a good lawyer, get names from PayPal, and sue the shit out of those assholes — take everything they own.
Even after Andy’s death, the wing-mouths posted hateful things about him, some of which I quoted in a post above. Of all the right-wing hate sites, Free Republic takes the cake. I first stumbled onto that web site while researching water law and ran across some posts on Free Republic by people in eastern Washington who actually said on the internet they would kill any state officials who interfered with their taking the state’s water without a permit. That clued me on just how far out there the Freepers are — haters without peer, and nuts to the core.
I almost wish some of those assholes WOULD go after the Ecology inspectors with their guns, so Gov. Gregoire would have an excuse to send in the National Guard and clean them out.
prrisss @ 48 “Did you get my post re; you being a fraud?
The Operation truth website/blog has ZERO record of your lying ass. ”
What did you look under prriss “Donn” “Donna” “Geddon”?
You pathetic waste of oxygen. Want to know my real name? .. Not gonna give it to a psycho like you.
chuck @ 53 “After reading his posts as well as trying to reason with Donnageddon”
chuck, I spent far too many minutes trying to reason with you. But sadly you came up empty headed.
What kind of person comes to a liberal blog to troll and defame the recently dead.
You sicken me.
Donnageddon@55
You really shouldnt soil Andys memory like that.
chuck..i couldn’t agree more….on both counts.
and donna…who ever you are….mindless rage like you regularily exhibit is a sign of an unbalanced mind. you don’t even seem very upset about andy at all…you are just looking for a reason to hate.it doesn’t take much. you are no different than a klansman…oh, i know you “think” you are…but you aren’t.
i never knew andy. had not even heard of him until today and then i read everything i could. afterwards i went outside and sat in the sun and watched a tigerswallowtail feeding in the butterfly bushes and i thought how really lucky all of us “fortunate breathers of the air “are.
and i thought of andy and how much he is going to miss dying at such a young age.
Roger Rabbit@54
“falsely accused Michael Schiavo of abusing his wife. With no evidence”
Wrong, Schiavo had a significant conflict of interest as in a common law wife and children, you know like another family. Kind of like a bank president that accepts management at another bank while he steers his bank into bankrupsy, in that case he would wind up in jail over a similar conflict, as so Schiavo should. This is the type of thing people are pissed at the Enron group about, only more personal. How long will it be before you libs start supporting post birth abortions? Im sure you guys will start with “well in the first year the post fetus isnt a viable human because “it” can not survive without help” and you cannot expect the mother to be tied down…it is her body…
Chuck: You’re an ass. You’re just the sort of turds-for-brain that Leo Strauss was talking about. Find out what the neo-cons really think of you,you…….DITTOHEAD!
Dr Quest@59
See what happens, you offer opinion backed by percieved fact and you libs start calling names…how progressive of you!
and goldy……”Frankly, I hope William can follow through on his threats.”
god…what a lousy way to memorialize someone.
@58, 60
A trumped-up “conflict of interest” does not equal abuse, or bank or trading fraud, as you would have it, and Schiavo’s decision’s about his family’s medical care is exactly nothing like AWOL’s friend Kenny-boy Lay’s fraud. That you would equate familial obligations with business fraud reveals just how asinine (or assinine) your juvenile thinking really is. So the evidence is in — you are, in fact, an ass.
RR & Dr Q
I know now that Leo Strauss was an advocate of voter fraud. Thanks for the heads up.
Voters Rights + Democrat = Voter fraud
GeoCrackr@62
Trumped up? Did he already have an interest in another family? I bring back my banker example @58. That is a conflict of interest.
Goldy, Don, Dr. Quest, and Lefties: Am I reading this correctly, righties are the reason? Look, like some of us here, I never knew this guy, and I never heard of him before reading this tonight at 11:15 PM on 07/09/05. I don’t frequent Free Republic except through Google searches. That being said, I would have contributed, as I have always stated it is my religious duty. To prove my point, I’ll ask you guys another question: When you are in downtown Seattle, do you open your window and give a “homeless” guy with a sign some money? If you said yes, okay you understand my position of helping. And GBS I have nothing to prove to you, as God requires compassion of His people.
Goldy, I know you don’t like me and that’s your choice. If you choose to publish the bomb go ahead. But if someone comes back at you with a lawsuit and you lose everything, I will not be throwing the pity party.
I started reading a Leo Strauss thread. Are you lefty guys and gals afraid of no longer being able to mold the young minds full of mush? My sons come home from high school and they tell me what liberal speak they hear each day. We have a great laugh. Headless Loocy molds (yes Cynical another double entendre) minds each school year!
RR
Dont get me wrong. The republicans who reeked havok on this Leo Strauss guy should not have done.Occasionally donks do tell the truth. You cant mess with a guys life after all. But I definately would not put it past a donk on trying to benefit polically from someones failing health or even death. Just take a look at the Wellstone fiasco. Enough said.
RUFUS, could you please explain what you have been told is the “Wellstone fiasco”?
RR, I always enjoy sparring with you. I pray for your safe and speedy recovery. BTW, we had a furry bunny when we were smaller. My father was an amateur winemaker and the rabbit got into the slurry. It would flop after three hops and fall over. It was the funniest thing!! Now we live next to woods and your brown cousins come into our back yard to visit every so often.
Hello.
Left behind, you don’t fool anyone.-Donnageddon.
Donna, I have no urge to fool anyone. I have yet to come on this site and insult anyone. I call either side on what I see. Because of the hippocracy that I see from BOTH political parties, I have come to realize that only following the party rhetoric instead of common sense leads to extremism. Instead of knee-jerk jingoism, I believe in seeking out the true facts, not the spun ones. I believe in calm, reasoned debate over name calling. I believe that a closed mind is a mind that cannot evolve. I believe that if someone can give me a reasoned valid argument over something we disagree on, that I should be open enough to admit they are right. I believe that I KNOW I do not know everything, and to assume so makes me a danger to everyone. I believe in admitting I am wrong if I am. (And boy, does THAT one ever bite me in the ass sometimes…) And finally, for now, I believe that as soon as someone resorts to personal attacks and insults, they have lost whatever ground they may have made.
I will come on here and post when I feel the need to respond, but one thing you will NEVER see me do here is attack someone. I will not do it here or any other blog that I visit. I come to these sites to talk, to learn, and possibly grow my world view. Not to compare people to bodily functions. I wish more people were like me in this regard, but then I think of a quote from Dilbert:
“Everyone is a bully on the Internet.”
I wish that that was not so.
Domo.
PS-Christmasghost, my name is not ‘Domo.’ I post that at the end of my posts as it is the informal way of saying ‘thank you’ in Japanese. (Like saying ‘Thanks.’) You can call me Left Behind, that seems to work. As to why I always start my posts with ‘Hello’ and end them with ‘Domo’ is because of a quote I paraphrase from Robert Heinlein’s book FRIDAY:
“The first sign of the decay of a society is the forgetting of manners.”
Words I try to live by.
Chuck @ 58
Your lame attempt to compare Michael Schiavo with Enron doesn’t deserve a reply and will get none from me.
Puddybud @ 65
Puddy, I didn’t criticize you in this thread. My criticism was directed at Freepers who post hate messages and right wingers who defamed Andy Stephenson and Michael Schiavo. I don’t place you in that group. In fact, I haven’t seen you post on this topic until now.
In reply to your question about giving money to homeless people. If you’re in the car ahead of me and you hand money through a car window to a guy with a cardboard sign, it’s not my business to question what you do or interfere with it. The issue here is that some partisans, motivated by partisan hatred, deliberately interfered with fundraising for an activist’s medical care. They publicly impugned Andy’s integrity and interfered with his medical care. Andy proved them liars by dying. If you don’t see the difference between what those officious meddlers did, and whether you or I make a personal decision to give or not give to a street panhandler, then I can’t help you.
And no, I don’t give money to street panhandlers, because in many cases the money goes to drugs or alcohol. I pay taxes to support food stamps, drug/alcohol treatment programs, and in addition there are many private charities that provide shelter and other various kinds of assistance to homeless people. You can better help these folks by giving your money to organizaions like Union Gospel Mission. In my view, those folks don’t have to go hungry and can get their material needs met, and even get help with training and job placement, if they want it. So there is no necessity to hand them money thru a car window and you’re probably hurting more than helping by doing that. But that’s up to you. It has nothing to do with the despicable treatment of Andy Stephenson by the hateful elements of the vengeful right.
Reply to 66
I see no difference between Wellstone’s wake and Reagan’s. In each case, a politician’s supporters sought to elevate the departed politician to the status of a demi-god for political reasons. In each case, the affection and respect for the departed politician among his admirers was genuine and heartfelt. Sometimes loyalty to politicians who become icons is noble and banal at the same time.
I haven’t been following the discussion about Leo Strauss in this thread and can’t say that I know what it’s all about. I know who Strauss is, of course. He was an academician who is widely regarded as the intellectual godfather of the neoconservative movement, and influenced many of today’s neocon opinion shapers through his teaching and prolific writings. The neo-conservative movement’s ideological roots in Trotskyite Leninism, and of course I find it highly ironic that conservative Republicans have drawn up communist ideas for their ideology. It’s true that in Strauss’s hands (and others) the underlying communist philosophy morphed into something not readily recognizable as “communism” but neo-conservatism’s Trotskyite origins explain a number of things including the movement’s totalitarian, anti-democratic, and anti-free speech tendencies. If the right is dissing on Strauss, which is news to me, all I can say is it’s about time, because the neocon movement Strauss helped spawn is antithetical to everything that conservative Republicans traditionally have stood for.
Reply to 68
Thank you, Puddybud. Your comments are appreciated. You have more than once shown yourself to be a cut above the other trolls on this board (e.g., Cheesy Chuckie, Mr. Cynical Irrelevant), and have done so again.
Roger Rabbit@70
Hey no sweat, guess I stumped you for words, but I dont need your hate mongering anyway.
Comment on 69
You get 4 stars on the Sentimental Scale. The reality is that liberals were attacked and are fighting back. Right wing extremists (including certain political figures who knew better, notably Newt Gingrich and Karl Rove) started this brawl by infecting the public debate with the tactics of ad hominem attack, name calling, smear campaigns, and lying. These folks are seeking big-time power and will stop at nothing to get it. Liberals have no choice but to fight back. You can’t be polite to terrorists, either foreign or domestic, you’ve got to take them out. Maybe someday America will return to the kind of semi-civil political discourse we used to have — we can hope and dream. But for now, the situation is governed by Gingrich’s 1988 call to his fellow Republicans to wage “civil war” upon Democrats and liberals, to which there is only one possible response: If war is what you want, war is what you will get.
Roger Rabbit @ 39
What does it say about our society if I can not speak freely and say who I am without fear? Will I now be excluded from a Bush infomercial because I do not pass their litmus test of true believer or put on some enemies list like in the Nixon era? No we all contribute to a society based on hate and fear once we hide behind phony names and speak anonymously. We have already lost something and the bullies and thugs win if we have to hide our names because of fear.
So much of these blog threads just degenerate into name calling and swearing at each other. That’s why I don’t spend much time reading or responding to them. Sometimes people actually put thought into them but a lot of time they just remind me of the behavoir of little kids fighting and yelling at each other. Not meaningful, not productive, not resolving differences but contributing to more hate and anger and diviseness.. My point, besides showing some respect for Andy Stephenson, is how many of you would sit down and say these same things if you met face to face? The very nature of the blog “conversation” is that people seem to use it too often to spew hate and anger at each other. Instead of shooting bullets as in Iraq you are shooting venemous words at each other. For what purpose? Does it make you feel good. Probably in some perverted way but does it contribute to bringing people together to solve common problems? Are you making friends with each other. Are you educating each other on your points of view like in a debate? I doubt it. Not when you engage in name calling and swearing and shouting.
Am I sentimental? No! I just don’t like bullies.
While I knew Andy Stephenson in passing and had a conversation or two with him, I at least sensed him as someone committed to trying to make our election process better. I saw him as someone who made a commitment to work for change. Reading this thread where people were spewing venmon and hatred at each other bothered me because I think a discussion of Andy and what happened to him and who he was deserved a better discussion than people acting like little kids in a schoolyard brawl.
left behind @69……….thanks for the info.i always enjoy reading your posts…they are thought provoking and mature…ah, if only everyone else’s were……..
please just call me ‘ghost’………
I’m a right-wing wackjob, and if this really happened (this is the first I’ve heard of it), then I’m ashamed of my people. I would have liked to have kicked in at least a small donation for a worthy adversary.
Joel@77
It didnt really happen Joel.
At least the “cons” as we are refereed to as a group did nothing detremental to Andy.
upChuck @ 78:
Fuck you.
It did happen, just as Goldy and George Howland and dozens of Andy’s friends have reported.
Joel, I appreciate your candor and your respect for adversaries. Would that others had at least a smidgen of decency and humanity.
see no difference between Wellstone’s wake and Reagan’s. In each case, a politician’s supporters sought to elevate the departed politician to the status of a demi-god for political reasons.
Which democrat got booed at Reagan’s wake?
N in Seattle@80
Changed your name huh, John?
Hello.
This is directed to Roger rabbit at number 74. If I am readin what you are saying correctly, are you calling conservative extremists terrorists? And that the only way to to fight these ‘terrorists’ is to use their tactics back at them until they are defeated? Now this may sound presumptious, but then yousing the logic you supplied me, does that mean you support the actions of our current admiunistration’s handling of the “War on Terror?” After all, if we are battling terrorists, we have to be as terrible as them? So does that mean you endorse Abu Grahib? Gitmo? The outsourcing of some detainees to countries that can torture them for us? In other words, have you gone to such an extreme on the left wing that you have circled around and became a right wing extremist? Remember, before you attack me for this, I AM just using your words to come to this conclusion. Just to be sure, here is exactly what you said again:
The reality is that liberals were attacked and are fighting back. Right wing extremists (including certain political figures who knew better, notably Newt Gingrich and Karl Rove) started this brawl by infecting the public debate with the tactics of ad hominem attack, name calling, smear campaigns, and lying. These folks are seeking big-time power and will stop at nothing to get it. Liberals have no choice but to fight back. You can’t be polite to terrorists, either foreign or domestic, you’ve got to take them out.
I am not trying to make you feel like a fool, but I AM trying to make you see you should really think more before post. You do the Left a great disservice when you type stuff like that, as it gives great fodder to the Right. I hear constantly that Liberals and the Left in general are smarter, more educated, and generally more enlightened than those on the Right. Personally, I think it is time that they actually PROVE they are the above, rather than proclaiming it while hurling personal attacks like calling the Right ‘terrorists,’ ‘fascists,’ or even better, ‘Nazis.’ You do not advance your causes to those of us in the middle when you act like petulant children. (And trust me, the Right lost a LOT of ground with me over the Schiavo fiasco and Stem cell research. As I said, I follow common sense, NOT ideology.)
In short, you say you are better? ACT it. You do that, and you will be surprised what you can accomplish.
Domo.
Hello again.
All I can say is this site REALLY needs a preview button or a spellchecker. Man, time for me to head back to remedial spelling.
Domo.
83
No, I’m saying the right fights dirty, so liberals can’t afford to be play nice. I’ve never suggested that Democrats stoop to smear campaigns or lying, even though Republicans do those things routinely. However, I believe ugly politics should be met with bare-knuckle politics.
To the foregoing I will add the following. Some of the most vocal blowhards on the most extremist right (Ann Coulter among them) talk about imprisoning liberals in concentration camps and even “executing” them. My response to that is, if one of these nutjobs ever kicks in my door and announces his intention of “arresting” me for being a liberal, it will be his last act on earth, because I’m inclined to believe that he means what he says.
Roger Rabbit@85
If you really pay any attention, it is the left that when cornered by facts start name calling and such.
Roger @86,
Given the choice between being shot dead, molotov cocktail in hand, during the Warsaw Uprising, or walking obediently into the gas chamber, I think most of us would choose the former.
I know my history. And if those people who laughingly email me taunts like “you can have your fancy words, but we own all the guns” think it’s going to be that easy, they’ve got another thing coming. Not all liberals are soft, talky wimps who can be bullied into submission at the first threat of violence. If the hard right ever follows it’s brown-shirt-like rhetoric from words to action, it will radicalize a new, hard left, that will fight back in kind.
I know that most on the right dismiss Ann Coulter’s call to execute a few liberals as some kind of dark, wacky joke… but there are others who take it quite literally, and really can’t wait for that day to come. There is a latent violence embodied in our political discourse… hell, people here on HA have told me they hope I die in a terrorist attack. But those who would welcome such sectarian violence should understand that it won’t be one sided.
Yes, I understand that what I’m writing sounds very dark, and more than a little paranoid… and I’m not saying such a scenario is likely to happen. But it can happen. And those reasonable people amongst us on both sides of the political spectrum should be vigilant to guard against it.
roger rabbit; as for being nasty, the repubs didn’t bork Bork. Ya’ll dug thru his trash, and smeared a great man. Too bad you nuked the only libertarian we may ever see on the court.
Goldy, here is something to surprise you. I would stand next to you if that happened. I would hope that you would do the same if they tried to restart slavery too. I think you meant to say vigilant.
righton is righton. Ted Kennedy brought nastiness to a new level. I was no fan of Bork, but your side gave new meaning and a new term “Being Borked”.
Goldy, I am to the right side and I do not own a gun. Only fired a gun a few times in my life and missed the mark badly. I would stand next to PacMan who would be standing next to you. I hope we never lose our US Constitution, hence we can’t have Hilary and her ilk in the white house. Hilary’s friends have repeatedly said Article VI of the Constitution means the UN Charter should be the law of the land. Wrongo pardner!
www . mensnewsdaily . com / archive / m – n / mariani / 2005 / mariani012705 . htm
goldy…
the only people often and loudly threatening violence are the ones on the far left.the car-keyers, the tire slashers, the window breakers….all the silly rebels without a cause that still think it’s the 60’s [which totally sucked by the way] or want to PRETEND it’s still the 60’s so they can have a cause du jour.
boring……god, so boring and old.
so you’ll be coming right after anyone that tries to get you?
and what…viciously scathe them with your erudite phrases?
leave then whimpering in a puddle because you wield the “f” word so blithely?
yes…i am mocking you because you so richly deserve it.
god…buy a CLUE….we don’t need to make up boogey men. they really do exist and they aren’t american.
your silly hate-mongering is nothing more than self aggrandizing.
Now ghost, give him a break. If he truly feels threatened, I for one want to show him that he has nothing to fear from us righties, and by standing by him on true constitutional issues we are Americans. Hence, I posted the Hilary link to show Goldy what Hilary really thinks. Go there and you’ll see she interned with communists. I would love to see Marilyn discount those guys.
Well today is the first time I ever heard of this guy. I think it is rather low to do such a thing as interfere with them collecting money for this guy – even if one thought he was not on the up an up. I still do not understand how they could interfere with Paypal though.
@85:
No, I’m saying the right fights dirty, so liberals can’t afford to be play nice. I’ve never suggested that Democrats stoop to smear campaigns or lying, even though Republicans do those things routinely. However, I believe ugly politics should be met with bare-knuckle politics.
Roger – Apparently you don’t know about these Democrats:
Defendants guilty of vote fraud
By Michael Shaw
Of the Post-Dispatch
All five defendants in the vote fraud trial in East St. Louis were convicted by a jury today after five and a half hours of deliberations.
The defendants showed little response when the verdicts were displayed on an overhead projector in federal court. Defendant Sheila Thomas dabbed her eyes, but the other four stared straight ahead.
Charles Powell Jr., the head of the city’s Democratic Party, three precinct committeemen and an election worker had been accused of buying votes to get prominent Democrats elected in the Nov. 2 election.
Source: http://www.stltoday.com/stltod.....enDocument
PBJ: I thought only Wascally Wepublicans engaged in vote fraud. NOT! You definitely brought vote controversy to their liberal minds.
“I am going to make you famous in all the worst kinds of ways. I know your names, I know your addresses, I know your IP numbers, I have screen shots and copies of every vile statement and threat you ever made. I know everything I need to know. Get ready for the ram.”
the world according to “william”……
hey willie…it’s called free speech.
lucky for goldy he doesn’t read his blog, huh? all the vile threats coming from the left would make him want to sue…….oh, brother.
Ghost, when you abuse our right to free speech to viciously slander a dying man in an attempt to gain some tiny political advantage, then you deserve to be exposed. People can try to hide behind anonymity, but they have no right to do so.
goldy,
you are kidding now, right? the left never does anything like that, right? sure they do…all the time. but free speech is free speech.and how would “they” be gaining a political advantage in this case anyway? andy was not a politician, he was dying [sadly] and there was nothing for anyone to gain. the people that did say those things are complete losers…..but THAT’S ALL. there was no crime committed, nothing for a lawsuit, no permanent damages incurred. yes andy died…..but that had alot more to do with having pancreatic cancer than what people had to say. the survival rate is so low it’s abysmal…….and ,as far as a lawsuit goes….that’s the first thing a judge would look at.
would he have survived if only……..
well, the first thing the lawyers for the other side would say would probably be why didn’t he go to the doctor sooner, why didn’t he think it was important enough to have medical insurance…etc. all crappy ,but true.
i agree about the anonymity part….but i have noticed that the people that leave comments on my site for instance and do not use a real email address have all been far left and up to no good.
what happened to andy was really crappy…all of it…but why don’t you look at some of the comments from your lefty regulars like dj for instance and try to look at it from , say my eyes, and what do you see? a really angry little man with no manners?
isn’t that really the big issue here….is that nowadays it’s okay for people to be smarmy bastards and do crappy things to other people to get “their [stupid] message out”? and it’s not a right /left thing….it’s a BAD person thing…and they come in all stripes colors and party affiliations……..
Ghost… and we disagree where? I’m not talking about lawsuits… I’m talking about publicly exposing the vicious little fuckers who slandered Andy and attempted to interfere with his medical treatment, simply because they didn’t like his politics.
They deserve to have their identities exposed.
goldy…well, you got me there. i have to agree that people like that should be exposed so their peers that aren’t morons[like they are] can shun them.
but sue? that’s just silly and anyone that claims to be an attorney on here that claims this suit would go anywhere is wrong. yes…you can sue over just about anything….that doesn’t mean it’s going anywhere.
i’ll tell you what…you find out who they are and i will help you expose them…how about that?
i agree that if you are going to screw with someone’s life or happiness you should have to do it out in the open…not hiding behind a fake name.