From San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom:
San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom proclaimed the nation’s war on drugs a total failure and insisted the crime rate would go down if the government spent money on treatment as opposed to jailing people with drug problems.
“If you want to get serious, if you want to reduce crime by 70% in this country overnight, end this war on drugs,” he told reporters at City Hall on Thursday. “You want to get serious, seriously serious about crime and violence end this war on drugs.”
…
In a ten-minute tirade about the drug war’s failure, Newsom told reporters that most politicians – including those in his own party – just don’t have the guts to admit the obvious.
“It’s laughable that anyone could look at themselves with a straight face and say ‘oh,we’re really succeeding.’ I mean it’s comedy. And as I say, shame on my party, the democratic party, because they don’t have the courage of their private thoughts, because we don’t want to appear weak on this topic,” Newsom said.
Alcohol prohibition ended when mayors like New York’s Fiorello LaGuardia spoke out about how it was nothing more than a war on minority communities. Drug prohibition will end the same way, as mayors from San Francisco to Newark are all starting to say the same thing.
David Guard has a recap of the incarceration hearing from Thursday.
[Via Pete Guither]
So what’s your proposal, Lee? Sell meth, LSD, crack, and marijuana over the counter? Will we set a drugging age of 21, and only sell these things in state liquor stores? Maybe we can sell them in grocery stores — or perhaps even pharmacies? How about a regulation to require a pharmacist to sell these drugs, even if it is against their personal religious or moral beliefs?
I am all for expanding drug treatment, and using it as an alternative to prosecution for mere possession or small time drug dealing. But most of these drugs — with the probable exception of marijuana — are far more addictive and destructive than alcohol or tobacco. If you end the “war on drugs”, that is the same as legalizing them, if you no longer prosecute the popel who sell and distribute them.
actually, and i’m sure this is a first and last time, i completely agree with gavin.
all prohibition ever does is create huge amounts of wealth for CROOKS. we wouldn’t have had the kennedys without prohibition as that’s where they made their money…bootleg liquor.and i am afraid that this new generation of creeps are going to make joe kennedy sr. look like santa claus.and , brother, he was ANYTHING but santa claus.he was VILE.
you CANNOT legislate morality. you can only punish the people after they have used a drug and committed a crime.or not used a drug and committed a crime anyway. do people really believe all this war on drugs crap that says that the only reason we have crime is because of drugs? come on!! we have crime because we have people making very bad mistakes/choices or REALLY rotten people that are sociopaths. PERIOD.
and if we are going to have a war on drugs then why not include the number one destroyer of families and killer of innocent victims in car crashes? that would be alcohol.[i’ll bet teddy kennedy wouldn’t vote for that]
forget tobacco….so you don’t like it. tough. how many people have lit up a ciggie and mowed down a family of five? Hmmmmm?
i would legalize all drugs. but they would have to be drugs. not poisons. there is a difference. and then the gangs wouldn’t be making the money they do that they destroy entire cities with, would they?
our prisons wouldn’t be overflowing with non violent offenders.
and the government could tax the drugs and control them just the way they do alcohol and tobacco right now.
i would put some parameters on it though.
if you are a caught dealing drugs or making them [think meth]ILLEGALLY then you go to prison for 35 years hard labor ….no exceptions and only one appeal. we used to get our roads built this way you know….before the UNIONS bitched about it.
and come on! weed? people should be able to grow it if they want for their own use.
and i can prove that the crime rate wouldn’t go up if you legalized, say, marijuana. here in the humboldt nation weed is everywhere and ,sorry folks, but the crime isn’t from that.it’s from METH.
you know, when something is around all the time…as with weed here…. it loses it’s cache’….especially for kids.
and if i hear one more time that weed is a “gateway” drug…i am going to smack someone. the real gateway drug [if there is such a thing] is ALCOHOL.think back. what “drug” did you first try out? you swiped alcohol from your parents right? be honest.
and geez…the lame excuses. marijauna doesn’t have any medical benefits [not true anyway] but hey…why doesn’t someone tell me the medical benefits of say, tequila or whiskey????
there aren’t any….save your breath. well, unless you want to inject pure alcohol into someone’s thyroid to KILL IT. yup…that’s what it does.
we have a friend that is dying of bone cancer and marijauna would help her immensely with the lack of appetite and the pain. but she won’t use any because “it’s illegal”.it’s just tragic.my dad has glaucoma…..but you can ditto what my friend said when it comes to my dad. he isn’t going to break any laws even if it means he could see better for longer. it’s so sad….really.
but the bottom line really? what monsters are we helping to create right now with drug money?
that is what everyone should really think about.
One minor correction for the ghost. Marijuana becomes a gateway drug because you get it from folks who sell the other stuff.
The King County Bar Association has supported decriminalization for years. These folks know what they’re talking about because they’re the prosecutors, defense attorneys, and judges who deal with drug crimes every day. Decriminalization doesn’t mean legalization, it means taking a rational treatment approach instead of the penal approach that clearly is not working. Over 1/3 of the inmates in our country’s prisons are there for drug crimes. In my opinion, jail is appropriate for kingpins and dealers, but it’s counterproductive and wasteful of taxpayer resources to put users in jail. They should be in drug treatment instead so they can become productive members of society and taxpayers. As for the kingpins — hang ’em all.
Alcohol is a drug, too. Jane Hague is a good example of the unrestrained use of alcohol. Republicans must be scared shitless of Richard Pope because they really lit into him with an expensive mailer that portrays him as a woman-beater with an uncontrollable temper. I think they’re confusing him with somebody else — namely, their own candidate for county executive, Motherbeater Irons. Pope has some personal issues, but he is not known to have abused alcohol or drugs at any time in the past. You can’t say that of the Current Occupant of the White House! It’s a good thing Texas doesn’t execute crack users or the GOP would have had to find themselves another presidential candidate. I wonder if Rudy Giuliani is addicted to Viagra?
@1 above: Actually, nicotine is more addictive than heroin. Also, given the modality of use, nicotine addition kills far more people than heroin as well. You could say the same for LSD for that matter (we’ll leave psychosis out of the picture).
Legalize them all for addicts with a doctors prescription, sell them all in a regulated environment with substantial taxation used for education (particularly of youth) and treatment for users that want it. If someone wants to try to function impaired all the time, let them. (Which is not to say don’t prosecute someone who drives impaired or otherwise endangers the public.)
Mouse writes: “But most of these drugs…are far more addictive and destructive than alcohol or tobacco.”
You know how many people die from the effects of nicotine addiction per year? Alchoholism? Do you have any idea of the social and economic costs of nicotine and alchohol? You ever witness somebody with DT’s? It is ignorant and yes, stupid, assertions such as these that make a mockery of rational discussion.
Grow up. Read some research on these matters. Come back when you get an inkling of reality.
So what’s your proposal, Lee? Sell meth, LSD, crack, and marijuana over the counter?
No. Meth should be handled through pharmacies and medical professionals should be able to treat addicts with maintenance doses when necessary. LSD should be available on prescription only, but available to those who register.
Marijuana should be treated like alcohol as it is actually far less dangerous than alcohol and we do just fine allowing people to purchase and use it on their own.
@1
But the important thing is that we don’t put people in jail to treat their drug problems. It doesn’t work and it costs society too much in the long run.
Treatment jail. Not regular jail. Mandatory 24 / 7 drug treatment for users.
By the way, if there was an opportunity for every American to get a good paying job, 95% of the drug problem would disappear overnight.
Full jails, just another symptom of the disease. Insane Conservative Policies.
The worst problem America has right now is Reaganomics. Enrich the rich at the expense of the rest. De-regulation, and corporate control of our government.
Conservative Policies are the disease, and drug use is only the symptom.
Let’s have a war on Reaganomics!!!! Now that would be something…..
@1
But most of these drugs — with the probable exception of marijuana — are far more addictive and destructive than alcohol or tobacco.
That’s simply not true. As Aaron mentioned, nicotine is more addictive than almost any illegal drug (high purity meth being an exception). However, many of the highly addictive drugs like meth are so highly addictive because they’re illegal. The fact that illegal drugs are controlled by criminals has created an environment where they are much more dangerous than they would be in an environment where the government controls them.
Why don’t you folks check out what candidate supports your views on drugs. Maybe none of them will let you grow your own weed or use it to make your life rosie. Yep you are stuck with the same old legal drugs, poor fools.
Interesting quiz/test to find what candidates most closely fit your opinion of issues:
Sorry lost the link
http://www.wqad.com/Global/link.asp?L=259460
@13: Funny, that silly little survey you point us towards that supposedly allows you to score a candidate against your positions doesn’t say anything at all about the topic of this posting, illegal drug use and the “war on drugs”.
Frankly, using something like that to select a candidate that most closely fits my opinions as a means to deciding my vote would be stupid. A lot of what I use in selecting a candidate has to do with the practicalities of working to form a majority – which is the first obligation of a citizen. That’s why when I went to caucus during the last presidential election, I ended up quickly switching from my initially chosen candidate to a different candidate – one that I thought I could best work with other supporters to try and send a delegate to the county convention.
I took that quiz, but Gene Debs didn’t come up.
@13
If you want to see where the real divide exists between Republicans and Democrats, you can look at the difference in how they want to deal with medical marijuana here in Washington State. Every Democratic candidate wants to stop interfering with Washington State’s medical marijuana laws, while all Republicans (except Paul and Tancredo) support using the federal government to override Washington State law.
#1 — How about if we find out how Holland has been so successful with the problem and model our solutions on something that works.
The war on drugs is another way to control citizens and simultaneously pick their pockets.
Jane Hague’s Dead Dog says:
The war on drugs is another way to control citizens and simultaneously pick their pockets.
10/07/2007 at 5:49 pm
Yep just like a speeding ticket but not as costly as a DUI in the state of Washington. Lee the Republicans do support selling drugs have you been to the Pharmacy lately?
@19
What? Please see a mental health expert, klake.
The war on drugs is another way to control citizens and simultaneously pick their pockets.
I am in total and absolute agreement with that statement!
Hear, hear!!!
@16 “all Republicans … support using the federal government to override Washington State law”
That’s because they enjoy seeing other people writhing in excruciating pain. For the same reason, they oppose assisted suicide and medical care for poor kids, and support war and torture.
Many Republicans got their start by pulling wings off butterflies and burning ants with magnifying glasses. From there, they graduated to torturing large animals and eventually human beings.
I note from klake’s post that he has at least one DUI. Interesting.
One small (okay really huge) quibble: this is not a war on drugs, it is a war on some drugs. This is not a war on pharmaceutical drugs as long as they are being accessed through the appropriate economic system (no matter how much they are being abused). This is not a war on all street drugs especially if those are being brought into the US to help fund various blackops (wonder why there is so much heroin now??). No, this is a war on some drugs that allows for repression and oppression of people of color and the poor.
Also the FDA is all over the map in its certifying drugs for human use, sometimes saying that OTC ones can contain this or that, and at other times saying that no pharmaceutical product can contain the same this or that. They seem to only follow the beck and call of the drug manufacturers and their lobbyists who fund the whole operation.
spyder….paranoid just a little or what?
“No, this is a war on some drugs that allows for repression and oppression of people of color and the poor.”
oh good grief! get a grip on yourself.
and the pharma companies are now the new BIG BAD OIL?
hey…what happened to BIG OIL anyway? how come you guys are never bitching about that anymore? what happened to “this is a war for oil”?? what? people noticed that we weren’t getting free oil and that blew your little conspiracy?
look…as much as you want to muddy the waters here with your theories…we were discussing the war on drugs. leave the pharma companies out of it. trust me…they have nothing to do with the war on drugs. they are too involved in a very expensive and risky business called inventing a drug to cure you of your paranoia.
i heard they are really close……..
@25
spyder….paranoid just a little or what?
“No, this is a war on some drugs that allows for repression and oppression of people of color and the poor.”
oh good grief! get a grip on yourself.
Christmasghost, you seem to have a short memory because we’ve already gone down this path before. And I posted both here and at EffU how you painted yourself into a corner where there was no explanation for your conflicting viewpoints on who should be arrested for drugs other than outright racism. I’ll be happy to repost those links here if you want to keep embarrassing yourself. The war is drugs is unquestionably about allowing for selective enforcement.
hey…what happened to BIG OIL anyway? how come you guys are never bitching about that anymore? what happened to “this is a war for oil”?? what? people noticed that we weren’t getting free oil and that blew your little conspiracy?
Actually, Alan Greenspan just admitted that much of the rationale for going into Iraq was centered on controlling oil reserves. That’s not a conspiracy theory, it’s common knowledge at this point.
look…as much as you want to muddy the waters here with your theories…we were discussing the war on drugs. leave the pharma companies out of it. trust me…they have nothing to do with the war on drugs.
This is absolutely not true. Most of the biggest donors to anti-drug groups who lobby for stricter drug laws are pharmaceutical companies. In fact, Purdue Pharma has been paying none other than Rudy Giuliani for years to lobby against medical marijuana.
Christmasghost, I appreciate the fact that you recognize the ridiculousness of marijuana prohibition, but you really need to get your facts straight (on a variety of topics).
lee…post away. just make sure they are actually MY COMMENTS.
your statement “And I posted both here and at EffU how you painted yourself into a corner where there was no explanation for your conflicting viewpoints on who should be arrested for drugs other than outright racism.”
is so beyond being silly it enters the realm of the absurd.
racist??? where do you get that? because i have made the observation that gangs are selling drugs to make their money?
wow….
what i think you find conflicting [and uncomfortable] is that i am a conservative republican and i think the war on drugs is a waste of money and illegal to boot, that i think the environment is something that everyone needs to worry about etc. what confuses you is that it isn’t ME that has “painted herself into a corner” as you put it, it’s just that i won’t fit in YOUR silly ‘this is what a republican looks like’ box.
the reality…especially here in california is that most republicans think along the same lines as i do. i can have an interesting discussion with the farthest left liberal on the planet in ARCATA and we actually have a discussion where we laugh ,talk, and agree to disagree on alot of things.we don’t scream at each other, we don’t hate each other…it’s just a discussion. and my car doesn’t get ‘keyed’ or it’s tires slashed because they don’t like my bumper sticker…..as is washington state’s MO.
this is why i know that seattle style libs are in for a big shock when it comes down to the presidential election…….you don’t get IT.
as far as the pharma companies go…..purdue is not a company that i would be throwing down as the BIG example. that’s ONE company number one…and it’s rep? well……..
capitalism works because companies make profits. if you weren’t so selectively BLINDED by your ‘pets’ you would realize that EVERY company exists to provide something and make money off it. that’s how they pay their employees etc. if you think that lobbyists only work for oil and pharma companies…think again. one of your little pets up there…micro soft??? ring any bells. but do you bitch about that?
that’s what i find amazing. you scream NO BIG BOX STORES and corporations evil. and then you all drink lattes from starbucks. what do you think they are? a non profit?
and even in the case of purdue….lobbying is still legal [sadly…companies and organizations should not be able to vote] and they are doing the same things as every other large corporation. do i agree with them? no. does that make them bad? no. every one has a right to do what is legal. if you don’t like it may i suggest that you do something about it and restrict lobbyists.
sorry for the rambling…another frickin’ migraine. i wish they could cure those…….
@28
lee…post away. just make sure they are actually MY COMMENTS.
your statement “And I posted both here and at EffU how you painted yourself into a corner where there was no explanation for your conflicting viewpoints on who should be arrested for drugs other than outright racism.”
is so beyond being silly it enters the realm of the absurd.
racist??? where do you get that? because i have made the observation that gangs are selling drugs to make their money?
wow….
Here’s the link where I explained how your comments reveal a racist bias after you very succinctly supported the incarceration of black people for doing somethat that you’d previously argued should not be illegal for white people.
http://effinunsound.com/?p=312
what i think you find conflicting [and uncomfortable] is that i am a conservative republican and i think the war on drugs is a waste of money and illegal to boot, that i think the environment is something that everyone needs to worry about etc. what confuses you is that it isn’t ME that has “painted herself into a corner” as you put it, it’s just that i won’t fit in YOUR silly ‘this is what a republican looks like’ box.
That’s silly. I know of a great number of truly intelligent conservatives who understand this issue. I’ve even discussed it with Stefan.
the reality…especially here in california is that most republicans think along the same lines as i do. i can have an interesting discussion with the farthest left liberal on the planet in ARCATA and we actually have a discussion where we laugh ,talk, and agree to disagree on alot of things.
An California is one of the worst states in the United States for this phenomenon. In fact, the federal government is actually considering forcing Gov. Schwarzenegger to release 10,000 people from their prison system because they’ve filled their jails with so many black and latino non-violent offenders.
we don’t scream at each other, we don’t hate each other…it’s just a discussion. and my car doesn’t get ‘keyed’ or it’s tires slashed because they don’t like my bumper sticker…..as is washington state’s MO.
this is why i know that seattle style libs are in for a big shock when it comes down to the presidential election…….you don’t get IT.
Whatever. Here on earth, the Republicans don’t have a chance in 2008 because they’re overtly supporting a guy whose entire MO is precisely what I’m talking about here – using drug laws to throw as many minorities into jail as possible while not targeting white neighborhoods. Ask someone who lived in NYC under Giuliani. Whether or not they say that drug laws were heavily enforced will be based primarily on whether they lived in a neighborhood with a high minority population.
as far as the pharma companies go…..purdue is not a company that i would be throwing down as the BIG example. that’s ONE company number one…and it’s rep? well……..
They all heavily donate to anti-drug groups. I’d be happy to provide links for you.
capitalism works because companies make profits. if you weren’t so selectively BLINDED by your ‘pets’ you would realize that EVERY company exists to provide something and make money off it. that’s how they pay their employees etc. if you think that lobbyists only work for oil and pharma companies…think again. one of your little pets up there…micro soft??? ring any bells. but do you bitch about that?
When they do things that infringe upon my individual freedom I will. You have a basic understanding of capitalism that I had in 5th grade. Some of us have grown up and understand how the world works at a deeper level. I hope you can join me there.
that’s what i find amazing. you scream NO BIG BOX STORES and corporations evil. and then you all drink lattes from starbucks. what do you think they are? a non profit?
Nice strawman, but you apparently have me confused with someone else. I’ve never screamed NO BIG BOX STORES and I don’t drink Starbucks. But I’m sure you enjoy petting the dinosaurs in your imaginary world.
and even in the case of purdue….lobbying is still legal [sadly…companies and organizations should not be able to vote] and they are doing the same things as every other large corporation. do i agree with them? no. does that make them bad? no. every one has a right to do what is legal.
Just because something is legal doesn’t necessarily mean it’s right.
sorry for the rambling…another frickin’ migraine. i wish they could cure those…….
You should try pot. It works for a lot of people who have migraines and you live in a state where you can get a prescription fairly easily.
Christmasghost,
More here:
http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v07/n1145/a02.html
lee…..your references and conclusions are silly to say the least. did you ever consider that they arrest the people breaking the laws based on the fact that THEY ARE BREAKING THE LAWS???
you remind me of a researcher who works for, sadly, the FDA. we fired him for his “work” but hey i guess he’s good enough for government work.his theories about how chemical complexes worked and why basically ran along the same lines as yours and were just as flawed. so, lee, i think you are on the wrong track here. you missed the boat. the cops are really arresting people that have dark hair. because they have dark hair. it’s not because they are breaking the laws, it’s because THEY HAVE DARK HAIR.they are out to get people BECAUSE they have dark hair….that’s it!
have you ever considered the fact that there are more ‘minorities’ in jail because they are committing more crimes? for whatever reason…poverty, lack of parenting etc……they broke the law and that’s why they are in jail. there is no conspiracy…… period.
see how that works?
if people don’t look at REAL facts then they can’t help or correct REAL problems. you trying to make a drug dealer/ car thief/ rapist out to be a victim BECAUSE of his skin color alone makes you the racist here.and the democratic party has been routinely acting in a racist manner towards african americans and latinos for decades.the dems attitude that “they” aren’t smart enough to know how to vote, hold a job, know what to do, ad nauseum is beyond racism….it has destroyed generations of people. don’t worry charlie…we’ll give you welfare [cause you’re too dumb to work] and then you vote for us.now you owe us and if we don’t get reelected you don’t get your check.by liberals constantly beating that drum they are being very racist indeed. can’t you see that?
and grown men that say “whatever” make me nervous. what? are you channeling a valley girl now?
@31
lee…..your references and conclusions are silly to say the least. did you ever consider that they arrest the people breaking the laws based on the fact that THEY ARE BREAKING THE LAWS???
Again, that is not the point (we’ve gone over this before). The problem here lies in the fact that you argued that a certain act should not be illegal, but when you were shown black people being arrested for it, you all of a sudden became supportive of its illegality.
you remind me of a researcher who works for, sadly, the FDA. we fired him for his “work” but hey i guess he’s good enough for government work.his theories about how chemical complexes worked and why basically ran along the same lines as yours and were just as flawed. so, lee, i think you are on the wrong track here. you missed the boat. the cops are really arresting people that have dark hair. because they have dark hair. it’s not because they are breaking the laws, it’s because THEY HAVE DARK HAIR.they are out to get people BECAUSE they have dark hair….that’s it!
If you want to have a serious conversation here, please try a little harder to make sense. Your rambling is a waste of space on this thread. Let’s discuss this issue as adults and treat it with the importance that it deserves.
have you ever considered the fact that there are more ‘minorities’ in jail because they are committing more crimes?
Yes, I have considered it (as have many people) and the reality is that study after study has shown that the massive increase in the minority prison population can not be explained by the fact that minorities commit more crimes. In fact, when it comes to drug laws, whites actually violate these laws in equal or greater numbers to blacks. Please see my link in comment #30 for the data on NYC. Numbers in both Seattle and San Francisco are similar.
for whatever reason…poverty, lack of parenting etc……they broke the law and that’s why they are in jail. there is no conspiracy…… period.
It’s not necessarily a conspiracy. It’s just that particular areas become targeted for more intense drug law enforcement. These areas tend to be the places where there’s a perception of greater criminality. The fact that police can then go in and bust a bunch of people just perpetuates the notion that there’s a lot of criminality there, even though employing those kinds of tactics in “safe, white” neighborhoods would be just as successful in finding people to arrest for drug crimes.
if people don’t look at REAL facts then they can’t help or correct REAL problems. you trying to make a drug dealer/ car thief/ rapist out to be a victim BECAUSE of his skin color alone makes you the racist here.
Absolutely not. And I understand how difficult this must be for you to be revealed as a racist, but I think it’s time for you to take a good long look in the mirror and try to understand why you support sending black people to jail for crimes that you strongly oppose being illegal for whites.
and the democratic party has been routinely acting in a racist manner towards african americans and latinos for decades.the dems attitude that “they” aren’t smart enough to know how to vote, hold a job, know what to do, ad nauseum is beyond racism….it has destroyed generations of people.
I’m sorry, but that’s not only ignorant, but it’s insulting to minorities. There are valid criticisms of how Democrats have dealt with the black community, but to say that Democrats don’t think blacks are smart enough to vote is disgraceful and you should frankly be ashamed of yourself. It’s bad enough that you revealed your own racism, but it’s really sad that you’re spinning and weaving in order to make lame accusations of others. If you think Democrats have acted in any of the ways that you describe, post the links. You know you can’t, because this world where Democrats are overtly racist is purely in your imagination.
don’t worry charlie…we’ll give you welfare [cause you’re too dumb to work] and then you vote for us.
What’s truly sad about this is that studies have shown that people’s views on welfare had no correlation with race until 1965. Since then, people’s views on welfare have been strictly based on race.
http://bostonreview.net/BR32.4/article_loury.php
Of course, knowing that you’re a racist, I’m not surprised that you said this. The anti-welfare movement has long been a movement predicated on the notion that once black people were treated as equals in society, welfare needed to be abolished.
There’s a reason why black people support Democrats, even though Democrats have often failed to help the black community over the years. It’s because many Republicans like you are outright racists, and black people know it.
lee…i MUST call bullshit on you.if these very specious [to say the least] arguments are the best you have, that’s sad.
you said:
*Again, that is not the point (we’ve gone over this before). The problem here lies in the fact that you argued that a certain act should not be illegal, but when you were shown black people being arrested for it, you all of a sudden became supportive of its illegality.*
NO NO NO……what i am saying [not that you are interested in the least with what i am actually saying] is that people are getting arrested because they are breaking the laws that exist on the books right now. we are a nation of laws…period. do i agree with all of them? no. but that doesn’t mean i don’t follow them. i do. see, there is the big difference between me and you. just because i don’t like a law doesn’t mean i feel justified in breaking it. i think the correct way to go about it is to CHANGE IT IF YOU DON’T LIKE IT.why don’t you quote where i said that “black people should be arrested for these laws but not whites”? because i never said it and if you have to be this intellectually dishonest to make your point…then you don’t have a point to make.
here’s another of your screamingly funny “points”:
*It’s not necessarily a conspiracy. It’s just that particular areas become targeted for more intense drug law enforcement. These areas tend to be the places where there’s a perception of greater criminality.*
yeah…what are those cops thinking going into drug and gang INFESTED areas to arrest people? yutz. when you want seafood do you go to omaha? get real, lee, this is so stupid.it’s not just a “perception” if they are arresting alot of drug dealers there is it? a perception is something you imagine ‘could be’.
and then you say:
*Absolutely not. And I understand how difficult this must be for you to be revealed as a racist, but I think it’s time for you to take a good long look in the mirror and try to understand why you support sending black people to jail for crimes that you strongly oppose being illegal for whites.*
once again…tell me lee where i have said that? because i haven’t and you are no james carvel. good try you little fish.
you can keep saying i am a racist all you want…..i am not.you know, the clinton spin of ‘say it often enough and it will stick’ is O-V-E-R. i realize that living in the societal backwater that you do you guys are waaaaay behind the rest of the thinking world….but you could try and catch up at least.
i think everyone would appreciate that.
a racist….you have no idea how funny that is at all……
and lee…the anti welfare movement [as you put it] is based on the idea that everyone is equal[what a crazy thought, huh?] and that unless you are handicapped to the point where you can’t work and support yourself and your family …you should do just that.
welfare was the modern form of slavery. democrats loved it because it kept people beholding to them for everything. like children.if that isn’t racism i don’t know what is.
and to head you off….i do.
look at some of the statements coming out of the democratic spin machine. blacks disenfranchised at the polls because they might have to show ID. are you kidding???? so what you liberals are saying is that if an african american has to show ID he will instead run away? won’t be able to find it? will be so scared he won’t be able to vote?
just what are you saying anyway?
could you be more condescending?
and let me guess….
you are a middle to upper class raised WHITE GUY who just KNOWS BETTER, huh?
i’ll bet you speak FOR women on abortion rights too, huh? cause us little women folks are just too dumb and fragile?
i could kick your ass with one hand tied behind my back. physically and intellectually.
heck…i do it all the time here……
@33
lee…i MUST call bullshit on you.if these very specious [to say the least] arguments are the best you have, that’s sad.
Well, you still haven’t addressed the main point, so as far as I can tell, I still believe that you’re a racist.
you said:
*Again, that is not the point (we’ve gone over this before). The problem here lies in the fact that you argued that a certain act should not be illegal, but when you were shown black people being arrested for it, you all of a sudden became supportive of its illegality.*
NO NO NO……what i am saying [not that you are interested in the least with what i am actually saying] is that people are getting arrested because they are breaking the laws that exist on the books right now. we are a nation of laws…period. do i agree with all of them? no. but that doesn’t mean i don’t follow them. i do. see, there is the big difference between me and you. just because i don’t like a law doesn’t mean i feel justified in breaking it. i think the correct way to go about it is to CHANGE IT IF YOU DON’T LIKE IT.why don’t you quote where i said that “black people should be arrested for these laws but not whites”? because i never said it and if you have to be this intellectually dishonest to make your point…then you don’t have a point to make.
Baloney. I asked you to say that you wouldn’t be angry if your son or daughter was treated that way by police over a bag of weed and you couldn’t answer that. You know for a fact that if the things that happened to the black people in that episode of COPS happened to someone you’re related to, you’d be furious at the officers. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. You can’t be outraged at the illegally of marijuana but also be unmoved by watching someone you care about beaten physically and abused by a police officer over it. No one is that soulless.
*It’s not necessarily a conspiracy. It’s just that particular areas become targeted for more intense drug law enforcement. These areas tend to be the places where there’s a perception of greater criminality.*
yeah…what are those cops thinking going into drug and gang INFESTED areas to arrest people? yutz. when you want seafood do you go to omaha? get real, lee, this is so stupid.it’s not just a “perception” if they are arresting alot of drug dealers there is it? a perception is something you imagine ‘could be’.
No, you’re completely missing the point again. That same “perception” would happen in a wealthy white neighborhood with no gang activity. You’re the one assuming that the neighborhoods targeted are gang infested areas. Why are you assuming that? Because black people live there. Why are you assuming that places that black people live are gang infested?
Because you’re a racist.
*Absolutely not. And I understand how difficult this must be for you to be revealed as a racist, but I think it’s time for you to take a good long look in the mirror and try to understand why you support sending black people to jail for crimes that you strongly oppose being illegal for whites.*
once again…tell me lee where i have said that? because i haven’t and you are no james carvel. good try you little fish.
You said it in the beginning of this comment, you buffoon! You supported a video I showed where cops were sending black people to jail for buying marijuana, but you think it’s stupid that marijuana is illegal. How is that? That doesn’t make sense. The only explanation is that you believe in selective enforcement.
you can keep saying i am a racist all you want…..i am not.you know, the clinton spin of ’say it often enough and it will stick’ is O-V-E-R. i realize that living in the societal backwater that you do you guys are waaaaay behind the rest of the thinking world….but you could try and catch up at least.
i think everyone would appreciate that.
a racist….you have no idea how funny that is at all……
Then what is it? Are you going to say that you would be perfectly happy if a police officer tackled and handcuffed a friend of yours and brought her to jail because she bought a bag of marijuana? Or are you going to admit that it was wrong for the police to act that way in the video? You either take one of those two positions, or you’re very clearly a racist.
and lee…the anti welfare movement [as you put it] is based on the idea that everyone is equal[what a crazy thought, huh?] and that unless you are handicapped to the point where you can’t work and support yourself and your family …you should do just that.
What I’m saying is that the movement didn’t catch on until there was a perception that most of the people receiving benefits from welfare were black. This fact alone does not prove that you’re a racist, but much of the anti-welfare sentiment in this country has been very clearly shown to be tied to racism.
welfare was the modern form of slavery. democrats loved it because it kept people beholding to them for everything. like children.if that isn’t racism i don’t know what is.
What!?! Giving people financial assistance is the same as slavery? What the fuck are you talking about? Was it slavery before 1965? How is welfare a form of slavery if it’s not tied to race? Is it slavery to help people without strings attached? Do you have any intention of making sense at all?
look at some of the statements coming out of the democratic spin machine. blacks disenfranchised at the polls because they might have to show ID. are you kidding???? so what you liberals are saying is that if an african american has to show ID he will instead run away?
No, it has to do with forcing people to PAY for the ID, you idiot. That will disenfranchise a number of poorer voters, many of whom will be black. That’s why some of these attempts in the south have been struck down recently. Disenfranchising blacks has been a REAL problem in this country. To say that Democrats care about it because they’re racist is the height of ignorance.
just what are you saying anyway?
I’m saying that you’ve listened to a lot of pundits and frauds who’ve disguised hate speech as political rhetoric in order to rally racists to vote for Republicans over the years. And you’ve internalized these racist notions and use projection to convince people that THEY are the real racists rather than you. But that’s simply not true. When you go into a black neighborhood, you think to yourself, “this is a high crime area.” When you see a black politician on TV, you think to yourself, “he’s a con artist”. You think these things because many people have made it socially acceptable to do so. But that does not excuse the underlying racism behind the beliefs.
could you be more condescending?
Probably. But only if you get even more ridiculous.
you are a middle to upper class raised WHITE GUY who just KNOWS BETTER, huh?
That is correct. I grew up in a wealthy white suburb, and I saw the reality of the difference between how drug laws are enforced in my neighborhood and how they are enforced in poorer, black neighborhoods. And I came to the obvious conclusion that the achievement gap between whites and blacks in this country is not a result of a lack of moral guidance in the black community (or Democrats or affirmative action), but instead the result of massive institutional problems in our criminal justice system. And there are very few knowledgeable people (on the left or right) who disagree with this now.
i’ll bet you speak FOR women on abortion rights too, huh? cause us little women folks are just too dumb and fragile?
No, I speak for women on abortion rights too because women should obviously have rights equal to men.
i could kick your ass with one hand tied behind my back. physically and intellectually.
heck…i do it all the time here……
Keep dreaming. And please seek some psychological help as well. I’ve met a lot of people like you, and it’s not a surprise that your niece ran away from home if the rest of your family is as hateful and pigheaded as you.
wow lee…a new low even for you.
first…you asked me:
*Then what is it? Are you going to say that you would be perfectly happy if a police officer tackled and handcuffed a friend of yours and brought her to jail because she bought a bag of marijuana? Or are you going to admit that it was wrong for the police to act that way in the video? You either take one of those two positions, or you’re very clearly a racist.
yes…i would be perfectly happy. absolutely. do i agree with the laws? no again. BUT, think what would happen if we let every idiot like you cherry pick what laws he was going to follow. CHANGE THEM YOU COMPLETE IDIOT.
and then you truly stoop to a new low, even for you as i said before…..
LEE SAYS: “Keep dreaming. And please seek some psychological help as well. I’ve met a lot of people like you, and it’s not a surprise that your niece ran away from home if the rest of your family is as hateful and pigheaded as you.”
wow…you are a piece of trash.
yes…i would be perfectly happy. absolutely. do i agree with the laws? no again. BUT, think what would happen if we let every idiot like you cherry pick what laws he was going to follow. CHANGE THEM YOU COMPLETE IDIOT.
Of course I’m trying to change them. What do you think I’ve been doing with my blogging for the past few years? If an act does not victimize someone, it should not be illegal. Is that too hard to figure out?
I have no way of knowing whether or not your answer is fully honest, but I’ll take your word for it. The numbers are very clear that you’re an exception. For several decades now, white Americans have been very content to watch thousands of black Americans hauled off to jail only to scream and yell bloody murder if their children happen to get busted as well. Only you know the real answer to that.
wow…you are a piece of trash.
Am I wrong?
When I was 17, I dated a girl (she was also 17) who came from an abusive family. She was anorexic, and her mother was a very religious person. That’s how they dealt with their father, who had at various times nearly killed them (and her brothers). As I’ve read your comments over the years, and how you approach dealing with people, you very clearly come across as someone living in the same kind of dysfunction. It’s very obvious. When I heard that your niece was missing (and 17), and that the police were not interested in looking for her, it immediately made me think of my ex-girlfriend who thought a lot about just running away (she never did, although she got a scholarship and attended college). When you factor in the disgusting way you attack people based upon nothing more than external superficialities, to the fact that your sister likely shares a lot of those traits, to the fact that police and media seemed very disinterested in sounding the alarm bells about an attractive 17-year-old missing person, the answer is obvious that she left by her own choice.
I learned a lot about how to rattle cages, and I have no problem rattling yours. Of all the commenters I’ve ever interacted with, I arguably feel sorry for you the most. You live a pitiful, angry, existence where you blame “liberals” for everything but obviously can’t deal with the issues that affect you personally. Whether or not you think I’m an asshole is irrelevant to me. But if you want to continue to pollute the national discourse with your racist clap-trap, the gloves are off.
lee….”Am I wrong?”
dead wrong. the police made the inane observation that she was “almost 18” …..so it wouldn’t be “worth” their time to look.
were they wrong? you bet.
as everyone knows ,’almost’ only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.
but then, as you prove every time you write something, you are not “everyone”……..
dead wrong. the police made the inane observation that she was “almost 18″ …..so it wouldn’t be “worth” their time to look.
were they wrong? you bet.
as everyone knows ,’almost’ only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.
but then, as you prove every time you write something, you are not “everyone”……..
Then that proves my point! If she’d been taken against her will, the fact that she was “almost 18” would have been irrelevant.