I’ve been meaning to blog on this story for a couple of days, and since I’m tired and want to go to sleep, I think I’ll just quickly point you towards this coverage by the AP: “Minister ex-communicates members for not backing Bush.”
The minister of a Haywood County Baptist church is telling members of his congregation that if they’re Democrats, they either need to find another place of worship or support President Bush.
Already, the Reverend Chan Chandler has ex-communicated nine members of East Waynesville Baptist Church. Another 40 members have left in protest.
During last Sunday’s sermon, he acknowledged that church members were upset because he named people, and he says he’ll do it again because he has to according to the word of God.
Chandler could not be reached for comment today, but says his actions weren’t politically motivated.
One former church member says Chandler told some of the members that if they didn’t support George Bush, they needed to resign their positions and get out of the church, or go to the altar, repent and agree to vote for Bush.
Yeah… right… it’s not politically motivated.
This is what comes from hyped up, violent rhetoric that categorizes Democrats as “enemies of faith”… the kind of hate-mongering the far-right usually reserves for gays. And there’s more of this to come.
As a non-Christian, I suppose I’m unqualified to comment on what it is to be a good Christian… but I can’t imagine this is it.
[And before anybody abuses me for the headline, it’s a play on one of the most memorable lines from Mel Brooks’ Blazing Saddles. So I’m not apologizing.]
To the excommunicated nine: kudos. However, I have to ask. What the fuck are you doing in Haywood County, KY? Move to Ohio, we need you there.
“Baptist churches are autonomous and answer to no central authority.”
http://www.newsobserver.com/ne.....9950c.html
Some wing nut pastor of a 100-person church in a dark hollow of the Smoky Mountains INDEPENDENTLY goes off the deep end. There are loose cannons in a lot of churches, so what. This does not provide the additional brick in the wall between religion and “good” that you are obviously searching for.
Yellow journalism, if that. Take an obscure incident. Tape an inflamatory headline to it, voila.
Will this blog go the way of Nation or the way of Screw?
Typical Goldy–
Look for a Christian nutcase and slyly cast a pall over the entire Christian faith or at least attempt to do so….ever so slyly. Did they teach you this in your Jewish upbringing Gldy? I don’t think so…I think it’s a bitter illness you suffer from and ironically there is only 1 cure (and I know you won’t like it).
But what the heck. This is your Blog. I’m sure it offers you relief for some of the bitterness you hold toward people that cherish keeping families together as a core for our society. Bitterness towards those who gather together and aren’t afriad to express their views. I have lots of Jewish friends. None of them show the bitterness towards Christians that you do. In fact, they are pro-family, pro-life.
Bitterness—Goldy, it will drag you down. You probably can’t do anything to resurrect your failed marriage. But you can look ahead…not all woman will desert you, especially if they love God first. Find that kind of woman Goldy. But you won’t as long as you wear that repelling bitterness on your sleeve.
Goldy,
Another broad paintbrush stroke without the critical paint. You just left the reservation by jumping off the deep end. What about John Kerry with the help of Sharpton and Jackson went to black churches and said any vote against Kerry is not Christian? Yeah, you blind to those comments huh? You forget that they are still doing it today? Your forget Donna Brazile (Gore’s black campaign manager) is so incensed with black ministers straying off the Democratic reservation when they question Jackson and Sharpton about the empty promises of the last 45 years from Democrats. Where is that pot and where is the chicken they are asking, let alone the crumbling schools, ghettos and barrio buildings in the democrapic controlled cities?
Clean out your mind Goldy. As Cynical said above, it’s your blog. Your side muzzles anyone who is pro-life. I didn’t know you were divorced, but Cynical is right about a Christian woman. I got one for the last 25 years. Best love life one can have. Reading the Bible produces a calming effect she becomes putty in my hands. Butt, then you wouldn’t know much about the Bible, let alone reading it, as it was created by “sinful” men. I forgot 2 Peter 1:20 & 21. That refutes “sinful” men. Didn’t Christ say “Cephas (Peter), upon this Rock I will build my church”? There are many loving, women who want a man with Godly values. Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and all other things will be added to you.
Goldy, do you know how to seek?
Pudster
The last post made your point goldy.
AllHat–
You imply seeking God first is somehow a problem for you.
Perhaps you too have had some trials and tribulations in your life that have put you in your current angry abyss. That’s sad.
Goldy made no point AllHat. What Goldy does is called VENTING!
The anger and bitterness stores & builds like volcanic magma and then…kerbooooom! Let’s attack folks that are believers.
It’s happened so many times Goldy…at least we know where you are coming from. Your blog leaves a trail…slimy, just like a slug.
Mr. Clynical @ 4 — It APPEARS the Brits have a better solution: The Official Monster Raving Loony Party.
Butt-Putty @ 6 — priceless!
Typical wingers. Condescending, holier than thou and shit for brains.
Shedding crocodile tears. Now Mr. C is a Doctor. Asshole.
Religion?
keep it to yourself, its about you and your god right?
Using religion to define good and evil?
This is shrubs doing, him and his kind.
If you want to put a name on it, religion would wear the evil tag.
Many of us dont want to deal with the fact you need a psychiatrist, or marriage councelor, or religion, whatever your crutch happens to be.
If you DO need it, its a sign of weakness to many.
I dont fault anyone for needing religion, thats their business.
UNTIL, they make it my business. If you stick your religion in my face, attached to an ultimatum,(like if i dont choose religion, i’m somehow less than you, and will pay for it in some way), You have drawn a line, that I WILL cross.
what a string of compassionate posts from our personal troll brigade. I give you guys credit. If something happens in our country that does not touch your nose, it is stupid to post or blog on it. May your churches excommunicate all of you because they have someone watching where you surf and they catch you here with your pants down.
Who’s making broad strokes? This appears to be a story about a radical Christian pastor (in NC, not KY) who has been whipped up by radical religious right rhetoric. And the conclusion? That’s certainly not “Christian” behavior.
“Reading the Bible produces a calming effect she becomes putty in my hands.”
I can’t believe I live in the same state as someone who says something like that. It’s a free country so I guess if you can’t handle a more lively woman I’m glad there are passive woman out there to serve you.
Does your wife know you describe her as putty?
Leftie Chrsitians like myself are very disgusted with people like this pastor. That he claims he is not being political is a damn lie because his church is a 501C where you even supposed to be to be politically partisan so well, he then lies and call it something else. Let me bet his big box church is raking in government handouts like corporate welfare queens in their limos. I hope his faith based moolah is taken from him and he is sent to the cleaners by christians who actually care about the message of peace, acceptance and loving one’s nieghbor. This guy obviously does not get a clue about what he is supposedly reading every day in his Bible.
As for somehow picking out some wingnut and holding him up for criticism like he is the *only* one, this is plan horsecrap. The wingnuts on the right’s own senator Frist came with hat in hand to the Wingnut-Rally-Of-The-Year for “Injustice” Sunday, and he licked their behinds like all good Rethugs do. C’mon you trolls, get real and realize you people have been taken over by a bunch of greedy facists who worship money more God and pretend they are Christians. They can line up like a bunch of swine at the trough and snort their way through billions while pretending to pray. This guy is only reading from the same program they tried to broadcast out to 60 million people and you know it. Just go count your 30 pieces of silver will you and leave us alone????
My 2 cents worth…
Cat in Seattle
These are the guys that put Ellen Craswell up for Governor.
Pudster’s random text generator is working overtime, serving up the usual concatenation of unrelated words and phrases. (see post #5)
He can’t present a single citation of Kerry telling black church members that a vote against him is “not Christian”, nor can he show Sharpton or Jackson saying it on Kerry’s behalf. Even his lie doesn’t come close to comparing with ex-communicating church members who don’t vote the right way. Here’s a hint for you, Puddy: When you lie, lie big.
Likewise for Donna Brazile being “so incensed with black ministers straying off the Democratic reservation when they question Jackson and Sharpton about the empty promises of the last 45 years”. Good luck finding a citation showing Brazile being critical of those ministers or of blacks who might vote Republican. If anything, her remarks have been aimed in the opposite direction — that is, she is critical of the Democratic leadership for taking black votes for granted and points to reports of GOP success among blacks as examples of the hazards of that strategy. If she’s “incensed”, it’s against the party leadership, not the voters who might be losing faith.
So, if you have something to back up your ravings, Puddy, let’s see it. Otherwise, spare us the sputtering and misdirection.
Ouch! Did I touch a nerve here guys?
The fact is, major religious and political leaders very publicly branded Democrats as “the enemies of faith,” and a local minister took that to heart, and made the logical decision to cast them out of his church. Words can have consequences folks.
righton @3,
Yellow journalism? I reported facts, adding very few editorial comments or conclusions. (Though I’ll cop to the inflammatory headline… but that’s just part of my schtick.) I can’t help it if people draw their own conclusions.
Cynical @4, Puddinghead @5
Your theories about my bitterness, and how I need a good Christian woman… I’ll mention them to the former “Mrs. Goldstein” tonight when I join her and the rest of her Catholic family to celebrate Mother’s Day. They’ll all have a good laugh. Especially the good Christian woman part.
(And Cynical, I’ve said this before, but you really do need to put together a better psychological profile of me. I keep dropping you so many hints.)
Pudding @5,
Reading the Bible has a calming effect on me too… it puts me right to sleep. I make no claim of being wise, but I am book smart, so trust me, I know a helluva a lot more about your religion than you do of mine. So please don’t waste your time throwing scripture at me. Matthew 7:5.
This probably falls under the “my church, my rules” category. I too am a non-believer, but I’m also very much in favor of any private groups or organizations being able to include or exclude anyone they want to. If you think that discrimination on the surface is the big problem, you’ve missed it completely. It’s the discrimination just under the surface that’s really what we should be worried about.
were these 9 also members of moveon?
wow allhatnohead grrrrr…pissy today huh? you expect christians to have “sexual orientation” forced on them. grrrr angry little hypocrite under that hat.
jp-you are such a perv, lurking & waiting for an exposed ass.
Good use of Blazing Saddles. :)
The preacher makes no sense. To say: “if they didn’t support George Bush, they needed to resign their positions and get out of the church, or go to the altar, repent and agree to vote for Bush” is ridiculas, since he is a lame duck.
I think the point he was attempting to make was to support politicians that support traditional values, but his methods are deplorable.
As a person of some faith, I find as a wonderful example of what christians should NOT do.
Nigger? Chink? Is racist rhetoric part of your “schtick” as well?
I just find it amazing that the trolls will attack Goldy for editorializing about an outrageous act by an out of control preacher but not even respond to the act itself. Hey, as long as the guy is on their team, he couldn’t have done anything wrong. This is GOP hypocrisy at its paramount. Imagine if the shoe were on the other foot and a liberal preacher started kicking republicans out of his church. You would be able to hear the caterwalling from North Carolina to Washington. It was bad enough that the Catholic archbishop of Denver wanted to forbid communion to those who support candidates in favor of choice. This idiot in NC takes it a step further by excommunicating members who don’t happen to support Bush. Let’s see how he likes it when his nonprofit status gets taken away. As far as I’m concerned he deserves no tax exemption at my expense (I am a resident of NC) for this act of political hacksterism.
Do you trolls have no shame at all?
Goldy@17–
I’m not trying to put together a psychological profile on you dude. A blog is not the way to get the necessary data. You do have a habit of throwing offensive stuff out there for us to chew on and then when someone calls you on it…it was a joke or you were just kidding. I think a lot of times you are kidding to fan the flames and encourage debate. Heck, I’ve been known to respond a bit harshly just to emphasize the absurdity of your comments or primarily the comments of your band of LEFTIST PINHEADED comrades….especially that lost soul called jpgee.
Fact is folks…we have a paradox here.
I firmly believe that your religous choice is yours to make.
I also believe I have the right to freely express my beliefs.
I would not attend a church where the Pastor tried to strongarm anyone on politics. Most of the people in our church are LEFTY’s who still have Gore/Liebermann stickers on their beater Volvo’s. But I still care about them and we have good friendships (politics aside). Kind of hard for you all to imagine that isn’t it??
Goldy–having yor own Blog means never having to say your sorry. If you find folks offensive, you can censure. If folks find you boring and dimwitted, they don’t have to log in.
No matter where you are coming from, how important are some of these issue skirmishes when you put them in the context of enternity??
Who is the purpose of life anyway?
Could it be to know God better and learn to trust in Him more deeply?
Kevin: It goes beyond hypocrisy — they just make crap up when all else fails. See my post @ 16.
CharredWreckage@anywhere,
please dont expose YOUR ass.
I expect cristians, to keep their self serving superstitions in church, and leave the rest of us out of it.
AllHat–
She was talking about the political party of the Ass, you stupid jackass!
HEEEEE-HAWWWWWWWWW!
HEEEEE-HAWWWWWWWWWWWW!
allhatnohead,
see the thread titled “Microsoft reboots on gay rights legislation” and then tell me who is pushing what. today you sound silly when the other day you were crying about HB-1515.
Look all over the Internet for Donna Brazile and you’ll find them. Or, did you forget the news stories of Florida black ministers being investigated by the FBI for proselyzing about voting for candidates in 2004? John Kerry was in the pulpit saying vote for me. Oh you forgot. Do your own damn due diligence.
Goldy, let’s take a test on how much you know the Old Testament vs. me. I know much more about the Torah than most of your stupid followers here. I also know much more of the Koran than most of your poster here. I have real friends in multiple middle east countries. Why? I asked them about their religion when I visited thos countries, instead of taking what people like your friends who write here. I know that the Sabbath begins at sundown and the day begins at sunset. But would you say Pudster is correct? No it would blow your cover. Goldstein, are you a real Jew or JINO? A rew Jew would correct your poster on the real day start.
You have no idea about what I believe, but I have some close Jewish friends who will verify my beliefs. So unlike me who won’t eat one, go have a ham and cheese sandwich.
Pudster
Pudster: That’s pathetic. You have nothing and you’re too buttheaded to admit it.
Have any of you ever attended a Marriage Conference by the Family Life. One thing many women say there is a man who lives and breathes the Bible is a turn on. My wife agrees. I wonder how many times a week you get it? WHy when you are living in God’s view you both are one. SO if you think my wife is shallow, don’t understand the marriage relationship of equal partnership and love. Did you get up and fix your wife the mother of your children her favorite foods and serve to her in bed. Probably not. Oh I took her out to breakfast. So what, do something out of love, stupids.
I should have said something about the minister. I do not agree with his tactics, but this is a free country. If you don’t like his politics, then you go to another church. Yes go to Ohio. They need help in inner cities to properly run polling places, since the existing democraps have no clue.
Pudster
Good for you Puddy. Your wife is a very lucky woman.
The radical left is so paranoid about churches saying anything political that they have gone so far as to plant people in church and record it hoping to bust them. Then report them to the IRS. This is such a desperate move by the left. This is how bad it is getting for them.
if this is an example of how overtly partisan political dogma was being practiced in churches–in clear violation of the laws on their status, obviously–doesn’t that make the scrutiny a good thing?
TJ
It’s totally unreasonable to extrapolate anything from the behavior of some loose cannon running a 100 person church out in the boonies somewhere.
PuddyButt,
For someone who claims to have written a Masters thesis, you have one hell of a muddled mind. I am afraid your posts betray symptoms of advanced syphilis. Do you really think any of us (leftist, rightist, innies or outies) give a rat’s ass about your sex life and what make your marriage tick? Well, here is an idea. Take your bible and shove up your ass. Or, lull your wife into a comma and shove it up her ass. But, either way, don’t report back to the rest of us, huh?
Well, it’s been three hours on the Pudwatch since I challenged him (@ 16) to back up his claims that Kerry, Jackson, and Sharpton told black churchgoers that voting against Kerry was “not Christian”. I also called him on his mischaracterization of Donna Brazile’s statements. (He said Brazile was “incensed with black ministers straying off the Democratic reservation.” I pointed out that she was critical of party officials for taking black voters for granted — she has offered no criticism to black voters or their ministers.)
So what does the Pudster have to say for himself? @ 29 he offers the potentially explosive revelation that, at some point in the Presidential campaign, candidate Kerry may have asked people to vote for him! No word on how this is equivalent to telling people that voting against him is “not Christian” — and no word on Jackson or Sharpton saying the same. So I guess we’ll have to throw that claim onto the bullshit pile.
What about Brazile? Here, Pudster helpfully suggests that I do his research for him and back up his own claim. (No thanks, I’ll leave that hopeless task to you, Pud.) Then he tries to change the subject with some more unsubstantiated BS about FBI investigations of black ministers. (Not sure how that relates to Brazile, but in Pudland, I’m sure it’s all connected.)
Carry on, Pud. Your clowning is hugely entertaining, but as a smokescreen, it fails. The fact is, you just make this crap up.
zip @ 35 what’s the extrapolation?
tj
“if this is an example of …” seems to extrapolate this NC pastor’s loopy behavior to justify the scrutiny described above as “plant people in church and record it hoping to bust them. Then report them to the IRS.”
All I’m saying here is that this foolish pastor’s behavior means absolutely nothing. If you try to use it to infer any type of behavior in any other church you are extrapolating. There are plenty of loose cannons out there, don’t read anything more than that into this incident.
and now for some alternative reading on these types of issues…
http://www.americanprogress.or.....8;b=667491
By Reverend Carlton W. Veazey, Center for American Progress
Reverend Veazey, a minister in the National Baptist Convention USA, has been president of the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice since 1997. Founder of the Coalition’s Black Church Initiative, he is a leader in progressive social justice causes.
Progressives who think warnings about “theocracy” are an exaggeration should take a closer look at “Justice Sunday: Filibustering People of Faith,” the Christian Right telethon headlined by Senate Majority Leader William Frist. Envision the carefully designed image that the far-right Family Research Council, the main organizer of the April 24 event, beamed into conservative churches across the country: a political rally from a large, comfortable mega-church in Louisville, with a middle-class audience listening with rapt attention to political operatives who self-identify as religious leaders-and at the bottom of the screen, streaming video with the photos, names and phone numbers of targeted U.S. senators. The visual message was clear: the church is dominant over the state and senators should toe the line on eliminating the filibuster and confirming Bush judges or pay the price.
Zip @39,
Oh… you mean like it would be foolish to extrapolate a felon’s vote by the voting behavior of the precinct he lives in? Yeah, I think I get your point.
“As a non-Christian, I suppose I’m unqualified to comment on what it is to be a good Christian . . . .”
Well, we Christians certinly seem to have lots of opinions about what it is to be a good Jew (or Muslim), so why not? But seriously, I once worked for an Observant Jew who ran a Christian radio station. He said that he was the best type of owner for a Christian radio station because he has no biases and acepted all broadcasters regardless of their views. Using this approach, you may well be a good source for external observations of Christian behavior. Many of us condn’t get convicted of Christianity even in the corrupt King County Superior Court.
zip, you act as if this is some kind of isolated attempt to equate Democrats with “bad Christian” or “enemy of Christian.” Perhaps you missed Justice Sunday. They directed people exactly like this pastor, to consider them as he does. I wasn’t extrapolating a larger phenomenon out of a single incident; the opposite, really. The isolated incident is an outgrowth of the larger phenomenon.
If you wanna shut down the white churches (that mix politics) will you do the same w/ the black ones, the lib episcopal, the even libber unitatirans et al. Slippery slope…
Notice that the wingnut theocrats are silent on what that church is doing. Its actions go directly against the bible that they claim to follow, not to mention centuries of tradition within the baptist church. Not that this matters, because the wingnut christians aren’t actually christians at all, they are politicians who are hitchhiking on christianity for temporal goals.
Needless to say, that particular wingnut congregation should have its tax exemption revoked. They’re not a church, they’re a political group. Their building isn’t a place of worship, it’s a campaign office.
righton @ 45
who said anything about shutting down churches? And which that you speak of are passing membership lists to party leaders, or excommunicaating Bush voters?
I still think Joseph does not get enough credit from people for pretending to believe that asinine pregnancy story that Mary gave him—and then he raises the kid as his own and never says peep about it. Now ,that’s real Christian love! And I’ll bet the Pudwhacker and Mr. Cyntacktical could never understand or emulate it.
I don’t think they should shut down the churches. They have every right to operate. But, as soon as they use political criteria for membership they should lose their tax-exempt status.
chardonnay @ 19 LOL, and yours is continually exposed here with your constant rants and holier that all attitude. By the way, you should lose some weight or you will lose your inner city customers
headless lucy should email her observation on the virgin birth to Sen John F Kerry & Cristine Gregoire. At the Govedrnors RALLY here in WA he just stated he re-read the new testament.It sure sounds like the democrats are mixing politics with religion.
headless lucy–
You are a School District employee who repeatedly posts on a government computer, from a government office in a government school on government time with a government internet access.
Fortunately you are cleaning government toilets instead of teaching our kids! But you couldn’t survive without your government job. No wonder you are so bitter. Oh well….
Isn’t it amazing how many of Goldy’s Heroes are Government workers or retired on Government Pensions….virtually all of them. How many of them own their own business and employ people???? NONE!
This is the crossroads. Taxpayers vs. tax bottomfeeders.
Hey Mr. Cynical,
Does Mrs. Cynical work for a School District? If so, is it a waste of government dollars to put her on the payroll?
She is a seattle school district (bankrupt/closing schools because oops, lost $4 million of tax payers money) employee.
c@48.
ok, so if a church says no homo, no abortion, do you kill their tax exemption cuz you deem those as political items? How do you tell what’s political. Most religious folks fear all the same sex stuff cuz they fear that while today they can rightfully practice their religion in the way they hire pastors, etc, they’ll lose that right at some point veiled behind the civil rights laws.
How do you know that I don’t work for the government and have my own business, just like the vice-president?
I appreciated the story. As an eclectic evangelical Christian who’s also a democrat, I find the real nutcase stories sad and amusing. I doubt that the forty will have much gas about finding another church, though it can be tough to find one where different those with political views will tolerate each other. I think that personal attacks on Goldy are out of line and unbecoming, especially from people of faith. Cut the guy some slack.
Cynical @51,
Fuck you, you fascist mother-fucker. I let you speak your meanspirited little mind, and then you have the nerve to come here and try to intimidate others from having their say. You show your true colors.
Goldy @ 41
Yeah I think you missed or perverted my point. The point is this church that has got you so up in arms is a 100-person church in the backwoods of NC with a loose cannon for a pastor.
And the article I linked to stated that “Baptist churches are autonomous and answer to no central authority.”
So go ahead and cry that the sky is falling and keep your rabid base all wacked out with your paranoid ideas about how evil “big Religion” is. That’s all you accomplish when you extraploate this stupid incident to your “Dominionism” fantasy.
does that mean it’s ok to raise our property taxes so the liberals can continue to be paid to waste time posting soshulist rhetoric all day while the school dist closes schools due to lack of funds because they lost the money?
Seems a bit ridiculous that you condone that yet freak over everything christians do and say.
Goldy;
I think it is time we post Cynicals name, we all know which VP he is over at Business Is Ass Wipeing. I am then sure we can find a list of Seattle Public School employees with a similar last name (hell even if were wrong, it’s just like the repugs putting Non Felon names out and ruining some innocents life) and we can out Mrs. Cynical as well.
Then we can get the home address and out the names of the Children……Cynical you are one sick fuck. Instead of the Message, you go after the messenger.
May you Rapture before everyone else.
Chard….just cause you must be the stupidest woman I have heard of, May you be in front of Cynicals SUV when he goes.
World Conquest
——————————————————————————–
Christians have an obligation, a mandate, a commission, a holy responsibility to reclaim the land for Jesus Christ – to have dominion in the civil structures, just as in every other aspect of life and godliness.
But it is dominion that we are after. Not just a voice.
It is dominion we are afier. Not just influence.
It is dominion we are after. Not just equal time.
It is dominion we are after.
World conquest. That’s what Christ has commissioned us to accomplish. We must win the world with the power of the Gospel. And we must never settle for anything less.
If Jesus Christ is indeed Lord, as the Bible says, and if our commission is to bring the land into subjection to His Lordship, as the Bible says, then all our activities, all our witnessing, all our preaching, all our craftsmanship, all our stewardship, and all our political action will aim at nothing short of that sacred purpose.
Thus, Christian politics has as its primary intent the conquest of the land – of men, families, institutions, bureaucracies, courts, and governments for the Kingdom of Christ. It is to reinstitute the authority of God’s Word as supreme over all judgments, over all legislation, over all declarations, constitutions, and confederations. True Christian political action seeks to rein the passions of men and curb the pattern of digression under God’s rule.
George Grant, The Changing of the Guard (Ft. Worth, TX: Dominion Press, 1987), pp. 50-51.
Do a little christian politics exploration.
Chard remain of a woman.
What are you doing online? your missing the number #1 rated Red state Show. Desperate Houswifes. Or is it to depressing because your good Christian man left you, because you lay there like a LOX?
Most memorable Line?
I like this one better
Hedley Lammar..I want rustlers, cut throats, murderers, bounty hunters, desperados, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, halfwits, dimwits, vipers, snipers, con men, Indian agents, Mexican bandits, muggers, buggerers, bushwhackers, hornswogglers, horse thieves, bull dykes, train robbers, bank robbers, ass-kickers, shit-kickers and Methodists.
AllHatandNoHorse @ 61:
Your point? I could cite example after example of crazy lefty talk but that certainly doesn’t mean all liberals think that way, so why try to say all Christians, or even conservative Christians agree with your post or the story Goldy posted? Everybody around here seems to get more than a little mad when the name Ward Churchill comes up…I’m sure you don’t agree with him, and get angry when people try to paint him as “typical left wing thinking”, so don’t lump everybody on the right with these crazies.
headless lucy outted herself on another blog
Calm down Goldy…no name or where she works.
It just seems like the vast majority of the LEFTISTS here work for the guv’mint and are becoming increasingly sensitive.
Could it be guilt bubbling to the surface?
I doubt that. Guv’mint checks when you do nothing of value for long enough has a numbing effect on your conscience.
lucy is overhead.
I respect all teachers.
Problem is the overhead that sucks dollars out of the classroom.
Goldy @ Danw:
Maybe I’m wrong, but I think the folks in question say those things to get a rise out of you. Maybe you shouldn’t take the bait, but hey, I certainly can’t tell ya what to do….
jon@64,
after listening to, and reading what ward churchill actually said, then making note of the size of his audience, i would suggest people that read, write, and actually practice what i posted, are far more dangerous.
AllHat @ 67:
Then how many folks constitute “critical mass”? I know a lot of conservative Christians and they sure don’t buy into the Dominionist line of crazy thought. I used Ward Churchill as an extreme example; but his line of thought on terrorism (especially about the US ‘deserving’ 9/11) is shared by more than a few, but again, to say a lot, or all, of any group thinks this way is not right.
Hello Pudster here. Reason for not immediatly answering the headass: Just got off of a flight and had to visit some friends, and yes it was a safe landing.
Hey scottd – Now I use your screaming hatred tactics and you are shocked and amazed? Wow, the shoe fits the other foot and you claim foul? You all are amazing!
I don’t care about my typing. Also, I said a Biblically based marriage makes a loving marriage. You guys can’t fathom that, so you belittle my comments. Kool. This isn’t Russia, so you have every right to piddle in your thoughts.
After the castigating from Alan on the governor, I post from things I have read. So here are two links that David Goldstein claimed I could not research. Hey David, still waiting for you to tell me how tasty the sandwich was and for you to admit your religion states the day starts at sundown. I provided my due diligence, so put up or shut up. Oh yeah, you cop a plea like always.
Here is the link: http://www.rollcall.com/issues.....284-1.html You have to subscribe to Roll Call. Have good day.
Here are two paragraphs from an analysis on the article. “Donna Brazile is uneasy. She has noticed something highly threatening to her party, and she’s sounding the alarm. In a column for Roll Call newspaper, Brazile, Al Gore’s campaign manager, warns her fellow Democrats that Republicans are seeking to make inroads into the African-American vote. “Once they (black voters) start listening to Republicans, some may even like what they hear.” Egad.
Brazile notes that in “many key states, including Ohio, Florida and Michigan, the GOP increased its percentage of the black vote by making a modest investment of resources, reaching out consistently to ministers and polarizing the black community with divisive wedge issues such as same-sex marriage.””
David Goldstein take – straying off the reservation. Did you do that too David? Still can’t address my Old & New Testament questions.
I guess it shuts you up Goldy. Spin your toilet water blog any way you want, but she said it. You figure out getting the article in Roll Call. Nuff SAID!!!
Now for the FBI investigation I miswrote, it’s an IRS investigation. But soon it’ll be the FBI: John Kerry preaching at black churches with vote for me vote for me. This one of many churches these guys did this during the last election cycle.
IRS PROBES POLITICS AT CHURCH
Source: ANDREA ROBINSON, arobinson@herald.com
The IRS has notified a Liberty City church that it is under investigation for possibly engaging in political activity – putting its tax-exempt status into question. The probe is related to an appearance last October by Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry and several black leaders, including U.S. Rep. Kendrick Meek of Miami, the Rev. Al Sharpton and the Rev. Jesse Jackson.The reason for the investigation, an IRS official wrote in a 10-page letter obtained by The Herald.
Published on March 21, 2005, Page 1B, Miami Herald, The (FL)
I guess you don’t read newspapers 3400 miles away? Maybe you should then your sewer politics could be tempered with new perspectives and other points of view.
Pudster
Zip @58,
Evangelical leaders are calling for churches to cast out Democrats. An evangelical church casts out Democrats. You dismiss the former as just talk, and you dismiss the latter as an isolated incident. I look at both as examples of a bold and growing intolerance on the part of a fringe element of the evangelical right.
Jon @64,
I always try to be careful and say that I am not generalizing about evangelicals, or even about right-wing evangelicals, but rather talking about a fringe element who is aggressively acquiring increased political power, and openly talk about instituting a theocracy.
righton @ 54
“How do you tell what’s political.”
Here’s one: when the pastor starts kicking out people who didn’t vote for his candidate…that’s political.
Pud Troll
I know that the Sabbath begins at sundown and the day begins at sunset.
How do you old Rabbinical one determine when sundown is? Is there a method?
The point we all have been making to you, is that it is the extreme fringes of the religion, that are taking over the GOP. By warping true Christian values. Pray all you like, just don’t demand that we do it with you. Get it? now get over it.
Hey Pudknocker: That Roll Call article just makes my point and demonstrates an astounding lack of reading comprehension on your part.
Here’s what you originally said (@ 5):
Donna Brazile (Gore’s black campaign manager) is so incensed with black ministers straying off the Democratic reservation when they question Jackson and Sharpton about the empty promises of the last 45 years from Democrats
Here’s what I said (@ 16):
Good luck finding a citation showing Brazile being critical of those ministers or of blacks who might vote Republican. If anything, her remarks have been aimed in the opposite direction – that is, she is critical of the Democratic leadership for taking black votes for granted and points to reports of GOP success among blacks as examples of the hazards of that strategy. If she’s “incensed”, it’s against the party leadership, not the voters who might be losing faith.
Now, point out the part in the Roll Call article where Brazile criticizes black ministers and voters. Show me where she’s “incensed” with them. Read it again and you’ll see that it’s exactly as I said. She’s concerned that the GOP might be making inroads with the black vote (a reasonable concern). Elsewhere, she criticizes the Democratic party leadership for taking blacks for granted. Exactly like I said. It’s your crap about her being “incensed with black ministers” that’s still missing from the article or any other citation you can provide.
You’re still coming up empty with your main claim that Kerry, Jackson, or Sharpton told black churchgoers that a vote against Kerry was “not Christian”. I won’t be holding my breath — you and I both know you just made that up.
You can try to change the subject all you want — but it doesn’t change the fact that the first paragraph of your post @ 5 is still unsubstantiated BS.
To sleeper: My wife loves that I tell the world:
1.) I love her so much :)
2.) She is a devoted Christian woman :)
3.) She delivered beautiful children :)
4.) She is putty in my hands because I am putty in her hands :):)
5.) We talk about our hopes and dreams :)
6.) She’s GIB :):):):0
Now to TJ – Overly partisan political dogma – I just proved that it occurs on your side too. During the 2000 election cycle, I remember seeing Al Gore talking about politics in churches. I was on the news. It’s your side that says Separation of Church and State – unless it benefits democraps to speak our politics in churches.
To Danw: Many of us think Desperate Housewives is worthless dribble just life the Left oops… The Westwing. I have not watched either show.
To David Goldstein: Here is another wonderful reference to blow away your and scottd’s stupid rants. I have more web sites but I think just two allow me to make my point:
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/.....66239.html
Count the number of individual churches referenced in the article.
NUFF SAID!!!
Pudster.
PuddyButt @ 69
“I said a Biblically based marriage makes a loving marriage.”
Come on Pudd, you said a hell of a lot more than that. You told us your secret to seducing your wife, and you boasted about how often you fuck her.
I really don’t want to read a comment thread on a political blog that evokes images of you banging your wife with a great big Nordic Jesus looking over the two of you smiling sanguinely, followed by you and your wife screaming out in tongues, as you come and your wife fakes it. That distracts from thinking about important issues like the hideous budget deficit and out-of-control national debt.
And for those of you complaining about the foul language here: fuck off! This is a political blog, not a fucking bible study group. If that is what you want, check out http://www.CussFreeHolyRolersP.....eBible.org. Goldy once described this blog as “edgy,” and that is an understatement.
Hey scottd: Regarding Donna Brazile: What part of my post did you understand? Who changed the subject? Goldstein say prove it and I did. You split hairs and try to say this and that when she is saying black ministers listening to the Republican themes, are polarizing the black community. They are leaving the reservation, and it’s about time!!!
Why would the IRS be investigating these churches? What is inferred by Kerry and Edwards visiting those churches? “Stay out of the Bushes” Jesse Jackson said that tired old line in 2000. “You better watch out because you know who butters your bread.” Another amazing scottd post.
Here is a person from Harvard I can respect, Harvard Law Professor, Mary Ann Glendon:
“But it took some time before growing numbers of Catholics, Protestants, and Jews stepped forward to point out that when people advance their moral viewpoints in the public square, they are not imposing anything on anyone. They are proposing. That’s what citizens do in a democracy—we propose, we give reasons, we vote. It’s a very strange doctrine that would silence only religiously grounded moral viewpoints. And it’s very unhealthy for democracy when the courts—without clear constitutional warrant—deprive citizens of the opportunity to have a say in setting the conditions under which we live, work, and raise our children.”
Except people from HA, they want to shove down my throat their trite beliefs and if I disagree then I’m a bigot?
Regarding the sabbath, the discussion was from Jesus being buried in the tomb for 3 days, Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Friday night, Friday day, – day 1, Saturday night, Saturday day, – Day 2, Sunday night, Sunday day (morning) – day 3. Your friends said I couldn’t count. So now you agree with me that Jesus was buried for three days. I rest my case.
Go Figure.
Pudster
Pud: Why do you keep citing stories about black ministers who may have improperly endorsed Kerry? None of that substanties your claim that “John Kerry with the help of Sharpton and Jackson went to black churches and said any vote against Kerry is not Christian?” (Pudster @ 5)
If you want to talk about something else, I can understand that. If I’d been caught making stuff up, I’d want to change the subject, too.
Just to sum things up:
1. John Kerry, Al Sharpton, and Jesse Jackson never told black churchgoers that a vote against Kerry was not Christian.
2. Donna Brazile is not incensed with black ministers for “straying off the reservation”. She’s concerned that Democrats could lose black support because party leaders take it for granted.
Perhaps you mispoke when you wrote those things or maybe you just don’t care if your rants are based in fact. Either way, it’s pretty clear you’ll never own up to it.
Hey dj: Not getting much? Try Jesus? I didn’t talk about my lovemaking you all did. I said she become putty in my hands like I become putty in hers. God makes things right. You HA people who don’t know God have no basis to diss me! Since one of you will only accept things said of Jesus: John 5:23 – That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. John 6:44 – No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Also I never said I was perfect. But God in me is a perfecting act. Jesus said that!!! I said: Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness and all oither things will be given unto you. That must really scare you. Women liking Christian men. I guess the eHarmony.com dating web site must really make you sick seeing people who have similar Christian beliefs getting along!!! Godliness creates love and charity in the heart, people of similar beliefs coming together. Then the charity reaches out, helping their fellow man.
Since we are talking about religion here, I ask you scottd, dj, tj and others, did you give 1977 Al Gore numbers ($353) to charity last year. PRove to me otherwise!
Pudster
If anyone here can decipher Puddy’s last post (esp. the last paragraph), let me know.
I think the stress of being called on his fabrication is causing him to become unhinged.
jon@67,
can you point to churchills audience?
As a group, can you show me?
There are individuals, that relate to the point he was trying to make, to be sure, but an actual following that amounts to anything?
Probably not.
Now ask the same question, of the christian extremists.
That group, is alive and well, and is very large, in comparison to any following of churchill.
They are the main players in the current administration, the terri schiavo case, the delay supporters, the right to lifers, etc.
The right to lifers, by the way, who disguise themselves so, ignore a large part of the real right to life movement, which also includes war, and execution, but they conveniently choose to select which lives matter.
shrubby, has signed more death warrants, than any other person in the u.s., and did it all on dubious (at best), information, supplied by his puppet gonzales.
Meanwhile, shrub sends detainees, to syria of all places,(you know, the axis of evil supporter, syria?) for torture, because they’re just so good at it, while 2 women take the fall for abu graib, and then he plays the jesus card at home.
The republican party, has been taken over by this fanatical right, and you people choose to either ignore it, or tolerate it, which is as bad.
Again I ask to you scottd, if Al, Jesse, John & John were not making those inferences, the IRS would not be investigating? Right? Why would certain newspapers report it? If it ain’t in the NYT can’t be true.
Regarding Brazile: I will not argue with you on her. If you think I am wrong well so be it.
Pudster
Pud Troll
You need to tak a little bit closer look at your Bible. How bout with the simple ones like…
1. Thou shalt not Lie
2. Thou shalt not bear false witness.
Because if you can’t follow the main rules, then the rest is just crap.
You have Lied and and forwarded lies onto this blog for weeks.
Thank goodness I don’t believe in Hell, because I would hate to have to listen to you for eternity.
Again How do the Jews determine when it is Sundown Rabbi?
How am I lying and bearing false witness danw? I state what I read, give references, and you twist it because it doesn’t meet your reality.
Regarding sundown – I asked that of David Goldstein. I await his answer.
Pudster
PuddyButt @ 78,
I’ve mentioned before on this blog that my mother is a Lutheran minister. In fact, she is the black sheep of her family because her father was a baptist minister and one of her brothers and one brother-in-law are baptist minister (they viewed her as something of a traitor). You ain’t gonna tell me nothing about Christianity or the bible that I don’t already know.
The one thing I have consistently observed over many years of being heavily surrounded in Christian culture is that the people who quote scripture in inappropriate social contexts are either mentally ill or are very stupid people who cannot keep up with the level of the converstation around them. Puddy, you seem to fall into the latter category.
Please keep in mind, that when you start spewing inappropriate god-shit that other people don’t really want to be exposed to, you not only make youself look bad, but you make other Christians look bad and you misrepresent Christ. You can shove the christ you pretend to represent up your ass.
Pud Troll
Do you think the Bush administration maybe had anything to do with an IRS audit of a Church that allowed a Democrat to use it as a forum? You know how the hammer and friends work, destroy destroy destroy. Was there any result of the IRS audit?
What about the EPA lawsuit against the Coal industry? they give 58 Million to Bush and when he wins the Lawsuit is ended.(compare this stat to the fillibuster lie, presidents stopping lawsuits) Then they get to write the Clean Skies Act, which allows them to keep dumping most of the mercury into our bodies.
Pud @ 81: I think the articles you cited make it perfectly clear. The IRS is investigating claims that ministers at some black churches may have improperly endorsed John Kerry. You’ve heard no argument from me on that point — if those ministers crossed the line, they should be investigated.
So far, nothing about Kerry, Sharpton, or Jackson telling churchgoers that a vote against Kerry is not Christian (your words). You made that part up.
This is getting monotonous. If you have anything to back up the points I’ve called you on, I’ll be happy to respond. I’m not interested in your other ravings.
pudtroll
What about John Kerry with the help of Sharpton and Jackson went to black churches and said any vote against Kerry is not Christian? Yeah, you blind to those comments huh? You forget that they are still doing it today? Your forget Donna Brazile (Gore’s black campaign manager) is so incensed with black ministers straying off the Democratic reservation when they question Jackson and Sharpton about the empty promises of the last 45 years from Democrats
THESE ARE BOTH LIES AND YOU CAN NOT PROVE THEM. NOW YOU MAY HAVE READ THEM ON SOME RIGHTIES POST, BUT THAT DOES NOT MAKE THEM TRUE. You forwarding them on is bearing of false witness.
So get ready for that WARM welcome.
And I know how the Jews determine sundown, but I was just testing you expertise that you claim to be all knowing of all religions. But you have a problem with at least 2 of the commandments, so maybe a little more study of the bible, before you question anyones religous qualifications.
Religion should be between you and your god…Not a double Jeapordy question.
And Clinton didn’t start his investigations first with the ~ 900 FBI Files in 1993? Hmmm… I can hear someone saying now, prove there were ~900 files. Don’t have to, history agrees on that. I thought that the report out last week said our skies were the cleanest they have been in years and now the extra cleanliness will allow more sunlight to penetrate the atmosphere warming us up more.
dj, maybe you dislike my Biblical quotes and how I speak of God. Maybe you have a warped sense of Christianity from seeing how others treat others. Every employee of mine has stated they would work again for me in a heartbeat. Why? Because I live what I say and I do what I live. You can blather on about others but you don’t know me, have walked in my shoes of life’s experiences and you can all go off again painting whomever however you want. My relationship with God and His Son Jesus is personal, done by prayer. So when you want to discuss Christianity, as you say inappropriate, you don’t know what verses come to my mind by the Holy Spirit. I don’t impugn your dislike of religion but you surely love impugning mine. That’s why I put the Harvard professors quote up there. Because in the realm of ideas, unless it comes from your little mind, it just can’t be right.
Pudster
As I remember, Jewish sunset is at 6:00 PM, and time is broken done in watches. First watch, second watch, etc.
So Rabbi Danw, was Jesus in the tomb for three days?
I hope that helps.
Pudster
P
I thought that the report out last week said our skies were the cleanest they have been in years and now the extra cleanliness will allow more sunlight to penetrate the atmosphere warming us up more.
I am glad you put “I thought” in front of this. Because it would be bearing false witness again. You know that trip to Hell is coming a lot sooner than you think if you keep this up.
Please don’t tell us you believe this stuff?
Because if your information is from an Exxon funded think tank, and not from the other 95% of the worlds scientific communitty, even your beloved “CATO” institute, then congratulations the apocolypse is closer than even you think. that must thrill you.
Rabbi when is sundown again?
danw, read post 89
Don’t know the Cato Institute. And the Sierra Club and your institutes have it right too? If the Kyoto treaty was so great why did so many countries balk at signing it? Ever been to Turkey, China, Thailand, Phillipines. You want to see pollution? Just watch the brown air bubble as you approach to land. One time in Bangkok we couldn’t see more than 3/4 mile away. Get those countries to reduce their pollution and I’ll agree with your premise on US pollution.
Pudster
Pudster
Was that 6:00 PM daylight savings time? Was that 6:00 PM Wailing wall central time? Guess what 52 sabbaths a year, I know you might have a problem with that Copurnicous theory of the Earth rotating around the Sun. But do you really think the Jews in the dessert 4000 years ago checked their Timex watches?
You posts prove more and more what an absolute moron (not Morman, don’t want to offend the Mormans)you really are.
I sure hope this is not that private school education we all have heard raves about.
As for Jesus in for 3 days? I care why?
PuddyButt @ 88
dj, maybe you dislike my Biblical quotes and how I speak of God.
Yes, I dislike your religious rantings—it is out of place and embarrassing. I think you dishonor Christianity. You come off as a ranting idiot with nothing of theological substance in a political forum. It might just be a communication problem for you, but either learn to communicate intelligibly or have some pride in your faith and keep your religious thoughts to yourself.
“My relationship with God and His Son Jesus is personal, done by prayer.”
Fine. Keep it personal then, huh?
“So when you want to discuss Christianity, as you say inappropriate, you don’t know what verses come to my mind by the Holy Spirit.”
This is the kind of nonsense statement that makes you really look like an idiot—and gives Christianity a bad name. I repeat the suggestion: learn to communicate intelligently and appropriately, or keep your faith to yourself. I say in all seriousness that you besmirch all Christians with such delusional tripe.
That’s what I was told, Dan. Sorry I don’t measure up to you high moral standards for time keeping.
I thought the Universe rotated around God!!!
SO was Jesus in the tomb for three days? If you say no, then is Jesus a liar? “Destroy this temple and I will rebuild it in three days.” If you say yes, then you agree with me. Oh no Mr. Bill…
Pudster
PudTroll
Oh I see Polution, if everyone else is doing it, why shouldn’t we. excellent logic. We shouldn’t do anything until we get those New Zelanders to stop their sheep from giving of all that Methane when they fart.
You should go eat a little bit of Great Lakes or any eastern river white fish. Yummy and you can even tell your temperture afterwards. Blinky is coming.
And I dislike your secular rantings, same comments as yours. Again I refer to the Harvard professor. So I guess you and I dislike each other. But I don’t hate you though.
Pudster
danw, you totally missed my point, on purpose. I was saying this whole world is a tied together ecosystem. You can’t force one country to stop polluting, and allow another to throw as much trash up in the sky as they want. Everyone has to work together. God put us here as stewards on His Earth. You seem to throw a blind eye to the big polluters while you want to castigate the US.
Pudster
Again the 3 days is important why? My question to you was on you knowing more about Goldy about his religion then he did.
I say your full of shit…that simple…you are a thumper who gives good christians a bad name. You need to take on home and you and Mrs Pudster need to believe whatever you want….just quit Lieing and bearing false witness or you will miss that quality sex (hahahahahaha), when she goes to heaven.
I am going to sleep now, I have to See Al Franken in the Morning.
If your not bombing a Planned parenthood, you might want to stop by with a picket sign or something, but make sure you wear earplugs you might actually hear something that resembles truth.
PS Sundown is determined when 3 stars can been seen in the night sky.
Well lets start with the US cause that is where we live. and our voices and votes can have an effect on what we do.
We are also an example to the rest of the world. You should do some reading about the “commons”.
But I am glad that you think we should be stewards, because that is your first step to realize who the real enemy is to the enviornment.
Puddybud, you claimed at 29 that you are an expert in several religions:
And after being goaded by danw (e.g. @ 72) to demonstrate your knowledge by telling us when exactly “sunset” or “sundown” is, you announced at 89:
Wow, that is staggeringly ignorant. In the era before the modern clock, a specific hour of the night couldn’t be known precisely—so if the sun had already gone down, how were people supposed to know it was six o’clock? And if the sun hadn’t gone down yet, why would a new day be starting already? I think it’s safe to say your answer is dead wrong.
(It’s mildly amusing to me that not only do you not know what you’re talking about, but you didn’t even get the idea to look it up on the Internet and pretend you knew.)
Each day in the Jewish calendar actually begins with nightfall, specifically at the time three medium-bright stars are visible (or should be visible, if it’s cloudy). Why? It goes back to the account of creation in B’reshit (Genesis) 1:5: “And there was evening and there was morning, one day.”
So, Puddybud, still fancy yourself educated in religion? Why don’t you learn something and explain for us why Christians moved the Sabbath from Saturday (Shabbat) to Sunday, and why Muslims moved it to Friday?
Re-reading Puddybud’s challenge, I guess this (correcting him) makes me a real Jew. Good to know.
I love when I get you all going. If I submitted to you all this article:
http://home.earthlink.net/~etz.....ilight.htm, I would have gotten many arguments.
So I said 6:00 PM. If I said three stars one of you would argue what about the 13.5 minutes to walk 3/4 a mile, a shabbat days journey. Or the argument of the redness of the night. or when most of the sun has set on the horizon. If I said 42 minutes after sunset, I would have gotten arguments. Can’t win with you guys.
What about Shabbat ending exactly 25 hours after it begins, which is easy for people to remember. Maybe I walked into a trap so be it. Maybe you all get different worlds.
Pudster
Still waiting for the answer on Christ in the Tomb.
The Catholic Church said it moved from Shabbat to Sunday because Catholic Church transferred solemnity from Shabbat to Sunday. Ask any priest and he will tell you that the Sabbath is still Saturday. Go on, call one up at 8:00 AM and let me know what he says. It’s right in the catechism.
Pudster
Just a question for all of you here. If a church told its members to leave if they supported abortion, would you consider that the same as telling them to leave if they were Democrats? I am not equating the two, I am just curious of how everyone here would view excommunication due to supporting abortion.
More on the Shabbat:
“I have repeatedly offered $1,000 to anyone who can prove to me from the Bible alone that I am bound to keep Sunday holy. There is no such law in the Bible. It is a law of the holy Catholic Church alone. The Bible says, ‘Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.’ The Catholic Church says: ‘No. By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day and command you to keep holy the first day of the week.’ And lo! the entire civilized world bows down in a reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church.”
– Bishop T. Enright, C.S.S.R., in a lecture at Hartford, Kansas, Feb. 18, 1884
Notice this quote pertaining to Luther’s commentary on Exodus 16:4, 22-30, regarding the Sabbath: “Hence you can see that the Sabbath was before the Law of Moses came, and has existed from the beginning of the world. Especially have the devout, who have preserved the true faith, met together and called upon God on this day.”—Translated from Auslegung des Alten Testaments (Commentary on the Old Testament), in Sämmtliche Schriften (Collected Writings), edited by J.G. Walch, Vol. 3, col. 950 [St. Louis edition of Luther’s Works, 1880]).
Anglican/Episcopal: “And where are we told in the Scriptures that we are to keep the first day at all? We are commanded to keep the seventh; but we are nowhere commanded to keep the first day…The reason why we keep the first day of the week holy instead of the seventh is for the same reason that we observe many other things, not because the Bible, but because the church [Roman] has enjoined it.”
– Isaac Williams, Plain Sermons on the Catechism, vol. 1, pp. 334, 336
“We have made the change from the seventh day to the first day, from Saturday to Sunday, on the authority of the one holy Catholic Church.”
– Bishop Seymour, Why We Keep Sunday
Baptist: “There was and is a commandment to keep holy the Sabbath day, but that Sabbath day was not Sunday. It will be said, however, and with some show of triumph, that the Sabbath was transferred from the seventh to the first day of the week…Where can the record of such a transaction be found? Not in the New Testament absolutely not.
Congregationalist: “…it is quite clear that however rigidly or devotedly we may spend Sunday, we are not keeping the Sabbath…the Sabbath was founded on a specific Divine command. We can plead no such command for the obligation to observe Sunday…There is not a single sentence in the New Testament to suggest that we incur any penalty by violating the supposed sanctity of Sunday.”
– Dr. R. W. Dale, The Ten Commandments, pp. 127-129
Methodist: “But, the moral law contained in the ten commandments, and enforced by the prophets, he [Christ] did not take away. It was not the design of his coming to revoke any part of this. This is a law which never can be broken…Every part of this law must remain in force upon all mankind, and in all ages; as not depending either on time or place, or any other circumstances liable to change, but on the nature of God and the nature of man, and their unchangeable relation to each other.”
– John Wesley, The Works of the Rev. John Wesley, A.M., John Emory, ser. 25, vol. 1, p. 221
“Take the matter of Sunday. There are indications in the New Testament as to how the church came to keep the first day of the week as its day of worship, but there is no passage telling Christians to keep that day, or to transfer the Jewish Sabbath to that day.”
– Harris Franklin Rall, Christian Advocate, p. 26, July 2, 1942
Presbyterian: “The Sabbath is a part of the decalogue—the Ten Commandments. This alone forever settles the question as to the perpetuity of the institution…Until, therefore, it can be shown that the whole moral law has been repealed, the Sabbath will stand…The teaching of Christ confirms the perpetuity of the Sabbath.”
– T. C. Blake, D.D., Theology Condensed, pp. 474, 475
Pudster
damn puddy, what a windbag, oops, basically the same as the sheep in new zealand
Pudster, they now call you a windbag because you prove the Sabbath is still Shabbat. Yes I saw the article on when is the real Sabbath start. No matter what you say, they will disagree. These people are live drivel.
Just choose Ahhhnold.
PacMan
puddy @ 76:
“Friday night, Friday day, – day 1, Saturday night, Saturday day, – Day 2, Sunday night, Sunday day (morning) – day 3. ”
This timeline really makes you look foolish. First of all, why on earth are you counting Friday night, which as we all agree is the period from Thursday dusk to Friday dawn? Since you like John, in 19:14 he claims Jesus went TO BE crucified in the sixth hour, which means it was almost assuredly after daybreak by the time he was crucified, and thus Friday day. So throw out Friday night.
Then you include Sunday day, which is more defensible, but again according to John at 20:1, it was STILL DARK when the women found him…meaning he was discovered Sunday NIGHT, not Sunday DAY.
So at best you’re talking 3 days and 2 nights, or–as I already explained to you–in John’s words, 2 days (Friday, Saturday) and only 2 nights (Saturday, Sunday).
You are totally getting owned by a bunch of heebs and infidels! I think you’re making baby Jesus cry with this hash of His Word.
Foolish, foolish Puddybud.
1) Congratulations on realizing (at 103) that you could look it up on the Internet after all. Maybe next time you will search before you post, so as not to reveal your ignorance.
2) Unfortunately, you looked up the wrong thing. While the Talmudic discussions are interesting, they were an academic exercise regarding the exact dimensions of twilight. It is long-established in Jewish law and custom that the onset of night is indicated by the appearance of three medium-size stars: If only one star is seen, it is day; if two are visible, the time is doubtful (still twilight); when three stars appear, it is night. End of story.
3) Welcome to the world of Talmudic logic. Btw, you are in over your head. The Rabbinic commentaries in the Talmud are full of convoluted arguments, impossible hypotheticals, improbable logic, contradictory ideas and razor-sharp wit. It is legal brainstorming and teaching and brainteasers. And plenty of the outrageous questions that get raised in the Talmud are entertaining, but unanswered and even unanswerable.
For instance: the Torah prohibits plowing a field with an ox and a donkey together (Deuteronomy 22:10). The Talmud explains that pairing a large animal with a small one would be punishing to both. So one Rabbi asks, “What is the law if someone drives his wagon using a goat and a fish?” (Babylonian Talmud, Bava Kama 55a).
Read this joke and you will understand Talmudic logic a bit better.
(Incidentally, a clearer explanation of the Talmudic discussion you cited can be found at http://www.aishdas.org/toratemet/en_pamphlet4.html, and this Jewish Encyclopedia entry puts the discussion into context: http://www.jewishencyclopedia......8;letter=S.)
4) “So I said 6:00 PM.” Still one of the dumbest logical leaps I have ever seen. Way to bluff your way into proving you don’t know what you’re talking about. I suggest you stop claiming that you know the Torah. Stick to what you know.
P.S.: You wrote, “If I said three stars one of you would argue what about the 13.5 minutes to walk 3/4 a mile, a shabbat days journey.” I should also point out that a mil (the distance the Rabbis were discussing) is not the same as a “mile.” Sheesh.
Since this has turned into Sunday school, i’m just gonna comment on the root of this post.
Why is ANYONE supprised that religion and politics mix like water and cool-aid? Reguardless of the “separation of church and state” ( which has always made me giggle, especially when i look at money, enter a courtroom, ect.)these two powers have always, and continue to shape the face of our civilation. We CANNOT seperate them. Faith rules all, politics takes whats left (over).
As discusted as I am about what this “preacher” is preaching, i’m not to judge him, i’ll let God do that. I’m sure Jesus wouldn’t be too pleased at any folk that teach intolrance in his house.
as for the excommunicated…how lucky are they that the crainial bleach hadn’t made it thru their thick skulls. What fate better that heaven is the ability to NOT have to endure Evangaical (sic) worship…least they be subject to http://www.landoverbaptist.org/
Puddybud, I suggested that if you “still fancy yourself educated in religion”:
You’ve done a lovely job cutting-and-pasting from a web page agreeing that the Sabbath is Saturday, not Sunday. But it doesn’t say much about how or why Christians changed their day of worship. Your heart’s in the right place; I will enlighten you so you don’t have to admit to religious ignorance.
How:
Basically, the Roman Emperor Constantine, who worshiped the sun under the official (pre-Christian) pantheistic Roman religion, in 321 CE declared Sunday to be the day of rest in the Roman Empire:
The early Christian church, at its Council of Laodicea (circa 364 CE), ordered that religious observances be moved from Saturday to Sunday. Sunday became the “new Sabbath.” They ruled: “Christians shall not Judaize and rest on Saturday, but shall work on that day, honoring the Lord’s Day instead and resting then (if they can) as Christians. But if any shall be found to be Judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.”
Why:
It’s easy to speculate: 1) The Roman religion and another prominent religion, Mithraism (worship of the Persian god Mithra) reserved Sunday as their day of religious observance; Christians were probably tempted to fit in and follow suit. 2) The Christians wanted to distance themselves from the Jews; relations between the groups was hostile. 3) The Romans intermittently persecuted the Jews at the time; it was safer for Christianity to change traditions to look like a separate religion rather than a sect of Judaism.
So, if Saturday (the seventh day) is the Sabbath, is the Christian world just ignoring the fourth Commandment (“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy”)? So it would seem. It looks like the Seventh Day Adventists are the only major North American Christian denomination to continue to follow the fourth Commandment.
Now, Puddybud, you can tell people you know what you’re talking about.
By the way (for completeness’ sake), in the Muslim world, there is no Sabbath day. Friday is the Day of Assembly or Congregation in Islam. According to the Qur’an (Koran), there is something akin to a Sabbath hour on Friday evening—no business should be conducted after the call for prayer until the prayers are finished.
DamnageD: in case anyone here doesn’t know, Landover Baptist Church is a parody.
PuddyButt @ 106
I am not sure how this topic belongs in this thread . . . perhaps this should be moved to the open thread?
I believe most brands of Christianity recognize Saturday as the Sabbath. Christians observe Sunday as a holy day in celebration of the resurrection. I suspect this is why European cultures have two day weekends (no work on the Sabbath or on Sunday as a perpetual celebration of Easter). Islamic cultures have a six-day work week that ends on Friday.
David,
Of course its a parody…unless syouve been subjected to the madness and insanity that CAN BE the Southern Baptist Religion. What makes that site so funny (for those who can see the humor) is that it smacks too close to the truth in many ways. If you’ve even been subjected to their style of brainwashing, its not entire funny at all.
Anyways, I found asn interesting article in the times that really adds to this argument of the mix of religion and politics…literally. Enjoy
http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....ter09.html
DJ, PacMan here: I thought Pudster was asked about why the Sabbath was changed to Sunday? I thought he provided angles from all Protestant churches except the Seventh Day Baptists, Messianic Jews, and Seventh-day Adventists. These three religions hold the God-ordained Seventh Day as the only Sabbath day. Everything else is a fraud!!! “Remember the Sabbath-day to keep it holy.” – 4th Commandment. I thought my master, Jesus Christ said: “If you love me keep my commandments.” Does that mean all of them, I think so!!! Didn’t Torridjoe say he only believed those things said by Jesus Christ.
David, PacMan here:
Thank you for your explanation. There is even more than You or Pudster are talking about.
I do know about the movement from the pagan sun-day worship. There is more to the issue of persecution. Foxes Book of Martyrs is an excellent read on the persecution angles. The Jews did not give into the persecution, while the Christians after the first century did. Some Roman cuniform texts excavated describe how the Romans were fed up with the Jewish resistance as they willingly went to their death while they would take some Christians and they would recant to Sunday. Diocletian was a wickedly bad emperor who persecuted the Christians all over the Roman empire in various amnplitheatres. Eventually the Christian succumbed to the lets have Sunday service sacred, while the Jews did not.
I knew that the Bishop of Rome was moved from Rome to Constantinople for a under Constantine’s direction. Later, I also know that Constantine took his army, marched then through the Bosphorus until they were about chest deep in water, and then pronounced them “baptized”.
Does that fill in some of the blanks?
My take on the Baptist pastor? I feel he is wrong. This is America and people are free to go worship in other places. You can’t legislate religion, just as you can’t legislate what people do to their bodies, but I do agree with Pudster that abortion is taking a human life and that goes against the 6th Commandment – “Thou shalt no commit murder.” God will be the final arbiter on the abortion question. So if someone wants to do an abortion let them. Should it be legal, I say no, should it be illegal watch me now, I say no. I am ambivilent on abortion. I feel that there should be no law either way. How can that be? There are certain things everyone does morally right or wrong. This to me is one of them. I am fully conflicted on this issue. Personally I say no, but environmentally no law. I do have a friend who had an abortion at 19, got married could not have kids, so she adopted five small ones as her own. God works in mysterious ways.
But that being said, I have friends who take the 8th commandment literally and will not even take a pencil from their workplace to home. They have their own writing utensils purchased by own money.
Do you understand what I am saying?
PacMan
Very glad I kept a low profile on this one…..
:)
PacMan @ 116
“I thought Pudster was asked about why the Sabbath was changed to Sunday? I thought he provided angles from all Protestant churches except the Seventh Day Baptists, Messianic Jews, and Seventh-day Adventists.”
Pudster did not provide historical reasons why Christians worship on Sunday. He was largely quoting people showing that Saturday is the Sabbath. Indeed, it is. There is no biblical (direct) mandate for moving the holy day to Sunday.
Here is a very condensed historical version of why Christians worship on Sunday. [My sources are my mother and step-father, who are both Lutheran ministers and have M. Div. degrees, for what that’s worth]. The reasons are largely cultural and political, but initially theological. Early Christianity was a sect within Judaism, and they celebrated the Jewish Sabbath as well as the resurrection on Sunday. The Jewish Council of Jamnia in AD 90 put an end to Christianity as a part of Judaism (mostly). Christians still celebrated either Saturday (Sabbath) or Sunday (resurrection) and there was, apparently, little agreement on which was the proper “holy day”. In 321 Constantine decreed that Sunday would be the official day of worship. This was officially entered into church doctrine by the Council of Nicea in AD 325, and confirmed in AD 363 by the council of Bishops at the Council of Laodicea.
So what day should Christians celebrate? I don’t really care. If you think that early Christians perverted the Church by ignoring the Old Testament and changing worship to Sunday, feel free to worship on Saturday. If you think that it is enough to remember one holy day a week, then Sunday ought to work for you. But, please remember, theologians have beat this topic to death for 2000 years. You’ve go a lot of catching up to do if you want to authoritatively challenge the tradition or argue in favor of it.
This Pastor has guts!! Thought you might enjoy this interesting prayer given in Kansas at the opening session of their Senate. It seems prayer still upsets some people.
When Minister Joe Wright was asked to open the new session of the Kansas Senate, everyone was expecting the usual generalities, but this is what they heard:
“Heavenly Father, we come before you today to ask your forgiveness and to seek your direction and guidance. We know Your Word says, ‘Woe to those who call evil good,’ but that is exactly what we have done. We have lost our spiritual equilibrium and reversed our values.
We have exploited the poor and called it the lottery.
We have rewarded laziness and called it welfare.
We have killed our unborn and called it choice.
We have shot abortionists and called it justifiable.
We have neglected to discipline our children and called it building self esteem.
We have abused power and called it politics.
We have coveted our neighbor’s possessions and called it ambition.
We have polluted the air with profanity and pornography and called it freedom of expression.
We have ridiculed the time-honored values of our forefathers and called it enlightenment.
Search us, Oh, God, and know our hearts today; cleanse us from every sin and set us free. Amen!”
The response was immediate. A number of legislators walked out during the prayer in protest. In 6 short weeks, Central Christian Church, where Rev. Wright is pastor, logged more than 5,000 phone calls with only 47 of those calls responding negatively. The church is now receiving international requests for copies of this prayer from India, Africa and Korea.
Commentator Paul Harvey aired this prayer on his radio program, “The Rest of the Story,” and received a larger response to this program than any other he has ever aired.
Thank You DJ for your clarification.
Karl, one has to come to grips with their own religion before they can accuse the Baptist minister of what he does. Where do you stand before God. I have no problem arguing salient points with other Christians on doctrinal issues and what that pastor did. I condemn him, but I can’t stand it when non-Christians want to legislate how I live. Also the comments by non-Christians are unwarrented. If you don’t tread upon the ground I walk on, how can you argue/discuss religious topics when you come to the shooting range with an empty 44 Magnum? Okay bad analogy, but I think you see my point. To the non-religious ones who come out with vitriolic statements against the pastor, just should have said, “He is wrong”, like I said it, but then Goldy has this blog for a reason.
So I read the passion on others around your proposed HR1515 bill. When you tell me how to live then you are stepping on my toes, and that’s what Pudster and others are trying to say. So I welcome a great discussion I am having with DJ, whom I am having a wonderful conversation. Now some people (okay Pudster and others) are a little more vehement in their beliefs, but I do say they do have strong ones. Torridjoe, and others make flippant Christianity comments that are abhorrent to me. I can’t read Goldy, as he says one thing regarding he doesn’t judge “As a non-Christian, I suppose I’m unqualified to comment on what it is to be a good Christian… but I can’t imagine this is it.”, yet in his page he writes things that seem to be of a judgmental attitude “All right, we’ll give some land to the niggers and the chinks, but we DON’T WANT THE DEMOCRATS!”. That sentence abhorred me in Blazing Saddles in 1974 and it still does today.
Yes , I have similar study materials that document almost all of the same dates, you quoted. Another reason of thought around the Jamnia council put an end to Christianity as a part of Judaism, was in reference to Nero burning the temple in 70AD, and the blame given on why it was done. First, Remember the Jews flogged Peter for him saying to the temple leaders in Acts that the miracle he did by healing a man in Jerusalem by the temple gate called “the Beautiful” (Acts 3), was from Jesus Christ whom you all crucified.
Jesus warned the people to leave when they saw that predicted in Mark 13:14 “But when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION standing where it should not be (let the reader understand), then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. Remember Nero sieged Jerusalem earlier then pulled back his troops. I feel that was Jesus giving his believers an opportunity to escape to the mountains like he told them to. Now Mark has just associated the abomination with his own time period, with the destruction of Jerusalem. This desecration occurred in July, 70 when the Romans set up a Roman Eagle for worship inside the Jewish temple. Then, in September of that year, they destroyed the temple when a lit arrow landed in the temple and the fire was so hot that the gold in the temple ran out as a river. The Jews disliked the Christians. But enough of that.
To me I care what day I celebrate and it is the original Sabbath, God’s day ordained before creation. So I see man polluting God’s law. Didn’t God say “Heaven and Earth will pass away before one Jot or Tittle of My law changes.”? Mark 13:31 So if God is that exact in His law shouldn’t I the same?
Remember in another thread I asked Goldy and all of you questions. I ask them again. Pudster placed a quote from a Harvard professor which I think is very salient to these times. The in-you-face far left GLA seem to say if it ain’t my way then it’s no way. “We’re queer and we’re here” or something like that. So you are here and you be queer, okay, leave me alone and I’ll leave you alone. But do not TELL MY HOW TO LIVE or raise my children. This political correctness run amok is destroying our American fabric which allows the radical Muslims to want to destroy us more.
PacMan
PetLibs/ProudASS at 120:
You have once again demonstrated a knack for reposting things that are nearly-but-not-quite true. You have lifted the entire contents of (for crying out loud) an e-mail chain letter that mangled Pastor Joe Wright’s words, misrepresented where and when they were spoken, and made up some of the stuff about people’s responses.
Here is the original, according to Pastor Wright’s Central Christian Church (it’s actually adapted from a prayer by Bob Russell). He gave it before the Kansas House of Representatives (not the Senate, incidentally) in January of 1996.
Yes, it stirred controversy, but just one (1) legislator walked out. (Others speechified, which is exactly what legislators do when something controversial happens). Reverend Wright’s church did receive thousands of phone calls afterward (they didn’t report that they were all positive) and the Reverend did the radio, TV and print media circuit including Paul Harvey’s show in February 1996. But this was all nine years ago. It’s since been morphed into a feel-good Christian anecdote and circulated as a chain letter.
Please stop posting things of questionable veracity, especially when you don’t have any contribution of your own to make. We don’t need spammers here.
I pissed off The Snark, who did a little research on me. So I did some research on the Evergreen Freedom Foundation–an out of state fascist funded anti-education/union hating organisation that poses as a locally funded group.
Hey david – screw you pal. I’ll post whatever I like and if it’s mangling words, facts, opinions or foul language, it’s MY choice and I don’t give a fat rats butt what a liberal pissant like you thinks of it. To quote your little temporary governor and your fat hero, “move on”.
And david, it is oh so damned interesting that you piss and moan over the fact that only one legislator walked out (instead of “a number” of legislators) (whoop de damned do) and POINTEDLY IGNORED THE GOOD MINISTERS MESSAGE condemning “inverted values”, “pluralism”, “welfare”, “choice”,”multi-culturalism”, “alternative lifestyle”, “profanity and pornography” … all those goodies you “enlightened” folks worship at your ‘progressive’ (see me sneer) altar.
The bottom line is mainstream America is tired of the feel good liberal bullshit, they will continue to expose your nonsense and that exposure makes the pissants rabid. To that I say AMEN!
You are just so predictably too true to form kiddo.
Caterwaul: Do you sputter and drool?
Loony, do you THINK?
Take a laxative babe, or maybe a nice high colonic, your brain (that unused thing in your head) and bowels are clearly constipated.
The selective filter is at it again – WHICH of the words are the offensive ones… or are they only offensive when posted by anti-liberals?
And david, it is oh so d*mned interesting that you p*ss and moan over the fact that only one legislator walked out (instead of “a number” of legislators) (whoop de d*mned do) and POINTEDLY IGNORED THE GOOD MINISTERS MESSAGE condemning “inverted values”, “plural*sm”, “welfare”, “choice”, “multi-cultural*sm”, “alternative lifestyle”, “pr*fanity and p*rnography” … all those little goodies you “enlightened” folks w*rship at your ‘progressive'(see me sneer) altar.
The bottom line is mainstream America is tired of the feel good liberal bullsh*t, they will continue to expose your nonsense and that exposure makes the p*ssants rabid. To that I say AMEN!
You are just so predictably too true to form kiddo.
America is tired of the feel good liberal bullsh*t
Can we get the “Honorable” Dr. Frist to do some exploration on Stop their CATerwauling, spay/neuter ALL Pet Libs? Seems like he/she/it would be the puuurrrrrrrrfectent.
experiment lol
Ditto to drivel (and what a perfect -and uncharacteristically honest- name for a lib!):
“You are just so predictably too true to form kiddo.”
PetLibs/ProudASS the spammer sputters, “I’ll post whatever I like and if it’s mangling words, facts, opinions or foul language, it’s MY choice”.
By all means, convince yourself that you’re right by altering reality. I had no real problem with the good Reverend’s real words; he was something of an equal-opportunity offender, skewering folks on the left and the right. I agree with him on some things, but not everything; no big. Your post, on the other hand, tried to take a thoughtful prayer and pervert it into a sneering political screed with a feel-good backstory.
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.” —Sen. Daniel Patrick “Pat” Moynihan
On second thought,
“Everyone is NOT entitled to his own opinion—if you don’t know the facts, your opinion doesn’t count. —Andy Rooney
Andy Rooney? That senile old liberal? You’ve got to be kidding. That would be like trying to credibly quote your favorite sot and drowner Teddy – and what the hell kind of grown adult still encourages and allows their name to be bastardized like that of a 4 yr old?
andy
I prefer Cyrano DeBergerac who clearly has YOU pegged: O most lamentable man!–of wit you never had an atom, and of letters you have three letters only!–they spell Ass!
Or perhaps a bit of Churchill exposing your typical hypocrisy:
“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people’s idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone says anything back, that is an outrage.”
My personal favorite though would be Rand, and please feel free to substitute david for James:
“It is not advisable, James, to venture unsolicited opinions. You should spare yourself the embarrassing discovery of their exact value to your listener.” -Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged, 1957
what the hell kind of grown adult still encourages and allows their name to be bastardized like that of a 4 yr old?
You mean like “Dubya” Bush and “Dick” Cheney?
Re: Churchill at 134 — funny, it seems that you are the one outraged that I would point out you’d posted a chain letter without even fact-checking. I believe your exact words were “screw you pal. I’ll post whatever I like…”
Yes, the Churchill quote is definitely appropriate for you.
Dear davy, ‘Dick’ (as my father is called) is a perfectly acceptable adult shortening of the name Richard as is ‘Rich’ (as my brother is called) and ‘Rick’ (as my nephew is called.
Dickie, Richie and Ricky however are juvenile and best left in kindergarten.
Dubya, which you so like to typically mock is a FAMILY nickname to differentiate him from his father who is HW, in the same sort of way my brother and my nephew go by Rich and Rick respectively to differentiate themselves from my father.
Are you truly that dumb or just desperate for anything disparaging to say?
“His ignorance is encyclopedic”
– Abba Eban (1915-2002) referring to davy
“Blessed is the man, who having nothing to say, abstains from giving wordy evidence of the fact.”
– George Eliot (1819-1880) giving good advice to davy
“There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life.”
– Frank Zappa WOW! Even Zappa knew davy!
“Everyone is a genius at least once a year; a real genius has his original ideas closer together.” – Georg Lichtenberg (1742-1799)we’re still waiting davy… aren’t we? or did we miss it?
I don’t think a little kid should be punished for somethin’ he learned from a parrot ! ~ Dennis the Menace ok, ok we won’t hold it against pood davy
Damn, PetLibs/ProudASS (or should I just call you DumbASS, since you have a first-grade fixation on name-calling?), you’re reduced to making fun of all people named Andrew who go by Andy? How sad.
On the plus side, you are still true to form—ever since you started posting here, when you are challenged on something, you run away and put up an ad hominem smokescreen.
If I am ever looking to come up with some lame insults, I’ll give you a holler.
P.S.: Real men aren’t paranoid about their nicknames. See, e.g., David “Davy” Crockett.
Sorry kiddo, have a nephew named Andrew as well – he goes by Drew.
3 sons, 2 stepsons, 5 nephews and nary a cutesy nickname amongst them:
Chris (x2)
Jason
Rick
Jonathan
Andrew
Tim
Eric
Michael
Daniel
Gosh, grown up names given by grown up parents.
did someone use my name in vain?
Pacman, I wasn’t actually arguing anything here, yet @121 it was directed to me.
Karl
Karl: I didn’t mean to direct it at you. I thought I was answering dj’s comments. I was just venting about much of the stuff going on here and the twofacedness of many liberals and some conservatives.
I see so much crap here in Caleeeforeeenia that sickens me. The GLA name calling of people who disagree with them and they call themselves enlightened, open-minded individuals? Now I see they seem to have a home on the HA website. I wonder why?
I wonder why – if I choose to honor my Father and His Son in heaven I am a homophobe.
I wonder why – if I choose to lead my life repsectful of others, I have to modify my behavior for your benefit.
I wonder why – if I choose not to support your rantings, I am a racist & a homophobe.
I wonder why – when I present an apposing view my views are worthless.
I wonder why – when people express Christian points of view they are dismissed out of hand.
I can wonder why much more but why should I continue? Some jackass will ridicule this post too without thinking in my shoes for one second. So I wonder why.
How do create a PacMan symbol Goldy?
De PacMan
All good questions Pac.
I wonder why only Catholics serving in the Senate are respected.
Heck, Hillary recently said she used to teach sunday school, Jimmy Carter did too as I recall.
As a moderate independent, I wonder why they assume if you lean even the slightest bit conservative or moderate you are a wacky wingnut fanatic.
Not to say I have not seen some conservatives cross a few lines of their own.
I just wish that debate and discussion could exist with respect and tolerance.
I’ll hold my breath for lower taxes and see if that happens first.
Karl
Karl, you are so right.
PacMan, the silence is deafening from the Goldy crowd. Those questions require introspection, something HA people don’t have or can fathom in their minds. I just ask them as you say “vehemently”!
Pudster
Pudster:
Hello. If the other side wants a dialogue, let’s dialogue. Otherwise the “We Here and We’re Queer” crowd will never make it work.
PacMan
I see that there is still some activity here, so I’ll post the following link here which is the story of Pastor Chandler resigning. So much for Goldy’s “…This is what comes from hyped up, violent rhetoric that categorizes Democrats as “enemies of faith”… the kind of hate-mongering the far-right usually reserves for gays. And there’s more of this to come.”
And he should resign. What he did was too strong handed.
I understand he was dign what he felt was right. But he went too far.
karl
Caterwaul’s nickname is Mr. ED, but it’s not because he looks like a horse!
All tax exemptions for this church (and tithes to it) should be revoked immediately!
Since the PAstor has resigned, revoking their Tax Exempt status is meaningless.
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