Former Vice President Al Gore and the U.N.’s climate change panel won the 2007 Nobel Peace Prize on Friday for spreading awareness of man-made climate change and laying the foundations for counteracting it.
Gore, whose film on global warming, “An Inconvenient Truth,” won an Academy Award earlier this year, had been widely tipped to win Friday’s prize, which expanded the Norwegian committee’s interpretation of peacemaking and disarmament efforts that have traditionally been the award’s foundations.
“We face a true planetary emergency,” Gore said. “The climate crisis is not a political issue, it is a moral and spiritual challenge to all of humanity.”
But of course, it’s unseasonably cold somewhere on the planet today, so folks like Stefan are just laughing at us and the Norwegians for foolishly believing in science. (What a maroon.)
Speaking of maroons, while we’re enjoying the fruits of Bush’s genius, remind yourselves that we could have had this:
Believe in science? Not in Britain where showings of “An Inconvenient half-Truth” must be accompanied by disclaimers and corrections.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pag....._id=485336
Remember…Yasser Arafat got hisself the same prize too…Must be able to get it from the digger machine at the Seattle Center. Could that explain why Gore looks so heavy? Walks around with roll upon roll of quarters for the digger machine?
The Piper
Cool!
HAT TRICK! Gore (1) wins a presidential election, (2) wins an Oscar and (3) wins a Nobel Peace Prize.
Too bad that first prize was stolen.
Congrats to Gore.
And thanks a damn lot, Goldy. Watching that video and contrasting it with the reality of who is in office made me throw up in my mouth.
Piper, your link is no different from the loon ruling of the Federal Way School District. A ruling that was overturned due to the fact that religion is not science, it is philosophy. The factual inaccuracies within the film, that you and the story referred to, have to do with rates of change. At this point, due to more research and the curbing of emissions that was opposed by Bush and Repulicans like you, the rates of change predicted have been modified due to the fact that people have been taking the film and/or the issue of human involvement in Climate Change to heart.
For some of the issues, the rates of change are currently projected as being worse than predicted in the film. For some issues the rate of change is not as bad. Maybe it is that you do not understand that the World is a dynamic biosphere of which the input variables of what we are doing change and are not controlled to a great degree. Maybe its just that you do not understand how the process of science works.
{walks away, shaking head}
@4…MC…
Nice to hear from you again…Seriously…you’ve been absent…How goes the battle with you-know-what?
In re Al Gore??? There’s more of the politic than prophet about him. He reminds me of the Population Bomb extremists during the late 60’s. The sky didn’t fall then, and somehow I don’t see it falling now.
What I do see is an attempt to shut down growth and prosperity in developed nations while giving undeveloped ones a free pass. Thank you…but no thank you.
When Gore heard he was in the running for the Peace Prize, he got excited.
“I’ll take it! Piece of pie, piece of cake, piece of the action.”
The Piper
@5: Tell the Eskimos whose buildings are sinking into the bogs that were formerly permafrost (those buildings that aren’t being washed away by the storm waves that used to be ice).
Tell that to the Russians and Canadians, who are racing to gain control of the now-ice-free polar regions.
Tell that to the Greenlanders whose ice is melting at a rate higher than most predictions.
Oh wait, it’s hard to talk with your head in the sand. At best.
Apparently it’s also hard to see the evidence all around you.
-OM
David, you are the faithful one. Stefan is the rational one. You accept the current orthodoxy on faith. Stefan brings a more critical perspective, which is scientific.
Because a majority or consensus believes something doesn’t make it true or valid.
@6…OM…
Don’t you just love that now there is a Northwest Passage???
You can look at this stuff micro or macro. The macro POV remains unconvinced despite the religiousity of its micro evangelists.
Talk about sticking faith in the schools!
The Piper
“What I do see is an attempt to shut down growth and prosperity in developed nations while giving undeveloped ones a free pass. Thank you…but no thank you.”
Piper, your supercilious and smug dismissal of the dangers of global warming is true to form: Shortsighted, uninformed, shallow, and ideologically driven. The fact that the “population bomb extremists” were (maybe) wrong is irrelevant. A red herring in any event and as relevant as the Birchers screaming that flouridation was a commie plot (how’d that work out for you and your buddies by the way?).
Throw in some knowledge regarding Peak Oil, and mankind may well be in for a radically different future. You know what they say, the trend is your friend–until something changes.
Oh, lest I forget: You’re still a wimp.
The wingnuttiae are great at criticism. Science? Not so much.
#10: Science? Okay–let’s test your knowledge of science. Q: Which is showing far more promise for medical treatment? Fetal stem cells or adult stem cell research?
Piper Scott,
“In re Al Gore??? There’s more of the politic than prophet about him. He reminds me of the Population Bomb extremists during the late 60’s. The sky didn’t fall then, and somehow I don’t see it falling now.”
You know, Piper Scott, when you don’t know about something, best just keep your fucking mouth shut.
The fact is, scientific concerns for human population growth go back to the early 1900s. It was just picked up as a popular and political issue in the 1960s.
It is also true that the world DID something about the problem. The UN and the US pumped billions of dollars into studying the so-called “demographic transition” and factors that lead to a decline in population growth in different political and economic settings.
The result has been a reduction in population growth rate in both developed and developing countries. The growth rate has declined from a worldwide peak of 2.2% to the current rate of about 1.1%. The net result is that by the end of this decade, we will have only 75% of the world population we would otherwise have. BTW: The U.S. Government still spends about a billion dollars a year on demographic research.
The issue of world population growth is an excellent example where science informed public policy and really made a difference.
“What I do see is an attempt to shut down growth and prosperity in developed nations while giving undeveloped ones a free pass.”
I don’t think any of the scientists working on anthropogenic climate change have the motivation of “giving undeveloped [countries] a free pass.” It would seem that you are either being duped by people with political motivations (i.e. the wacky wingnuttia) or it just reflects your ignorance of the scientific motivations behind the work.
‘When Gore heard he was in the running for the Peace Prize, he got excited. “I’ll take it! Piece of pie, piece of cake, piece of the action.”’
Hmmm…sounds like you have PuddyBud sitting there coauthoring your comments. (Remember my warning—you are increasingly showing signs of Puddybud disease.)
Luigi @7,
You know what… If I go to a doctor and he tells me I need an operation, I’d question him at length. Then I’d get a second opinion. Maybe a third. They all agree, so I do a ton of research on the subject (as is my wont) but in the end, I’m not a doctor, so I have to trust their expertise and collected wisdom and experience.
Now, you might argue that getting that operation is an exercise in faith, but I would argue that putting my life in the hands of qualified doctors is a pretty damn rational decision. And the fact that I might accept such medical orthodoxy does not mean, as you imply, that I did so uncritically.
The best available evidence suggests that our climate is warming, and that man-made greenhouse emissions is largely the cause of these short term changes, and considering the potential consequences, it is prudent to act on the evidence we have.
Don’t you just love that now there is a Northwest Passage???
No. I don’t “just love” it.
I’m wondering what kind of world my kids are going to have to live in 20 years from now. Frankly, it scares the shit out of me.
And I believe it’s completely disingenuous to ignore the overwhelming consensus of the scientific community to score political points. It’s fair to disagree on how to adress human-caused climate change. It’s bullshit to fuss about the 10% of “An Inconvenient Truth” that was overstated or incorrect and try to use that to debunk the fact that it exists.
Fortunately, your side is losing, awareness is rising and the political will is being gathered to make a serious change in the situation.
But go ahead and continue to be smug and self-satisfied. It’s your right to be wrong, after all.
-OM
I wonder if global warming deniers avoid flying on airplanes with other global warming deniers.
I mean…they might strike up a conversation, determine that the principles of aerodynamics are “an act of faith.”
By their logic, wouldn’t that cause the plane to quit flying?
@1 That British judge just got overruled by a higher court of public opinion. Suck on it, wingnut.
@2 He’d better put his Nobel medal under lock and key or they’ll pilfer that, too.
@5 “He reminds me of the Population Bomb extremists during the late 60’s.”
And you remind me of the know-nothing tories of every age.
@7 Stefan is to science as dogs are to rabbits.
@19 I.e., science will still be here after Stefan is long gone, and rabbits will still be here after Jane Balogh’s dog has met the veterinarian’s needle.
@8 GOP = faith-based idiocy
@12 They could’ve used an Al Gore on Easter Island before their population crashed from 30,000 to 110.
@13 Roger Rabbit Quiz
When a wingnut is told he needs an operation, he gets a second opinion from a:
[ ] 1. Witch doctor
[ ] 2. Radio talk show personality
[ ] 3. Nancy Reagan’s astrologist
[ ] 4. Televangelist
Six months later, the wingnut makes a followup visit to a:
[ ] 1. Airport rest room
[ ] 2. Faith healer
[ ] 3. Howard Coselle
[ ] 4. Undertaker
It’s also worth noting that the judge in the much-ballyhoo’ed case found that the basic premise of the movie was correct:
The funny part: I got this from the Faux Noise website. You have to scroll ‘way down to find the truth, but it’s there, even in that piece.
But you go ahead and keep telling yourself that “A judge in England debunked An Inconvenient Truth” if it makes you feel better about yourself.
-OM
@12…D…
So…you use UW time and resources to blog? Isn’t there something in the Washington State Constitution forbidding the making of gifts of public assets???
The federal government spends billions on stuff it has no business doing…pork is the bain of both parties.
I’m not opposed to looking at demographic data per se, but billions???
Ehrlich was wrong then with his alarmis views. We didn’t starve to death by the mid-80’s despite never achieving zero population growth.
The problem with all this stuff is that it has as underlying premises that growth and prosperity are somehow evil, and that the only thing to do is take, take, take from people and limit, limit, limit their freedoms.
Al Gore is, at heart and by nature, a politician. That statement is proof enough to validate deep misgivings over anything he says. Yet now he’s exalted to the level of international GreenGuru such that I expect to hear any day that at his public appearances women throw their bras at him ala Tom Jones in Vegas.
“It’s not un-USUAL to be LUVED by Tipper Gore! It’s not un-USUAL even though I’m such a bore!”
Careful, lest your adulation of Gore morph into a Hare Krishna-like cult.
Hare Albert,
Hare Tipper,
Hare Greenhouse
big fat gasbag…
Hare pissed off
Still at Bushie
A run at Hillary,
Her core is mooshie
Hare ’08,
What’s to debate,
Screwed the pooch once,
I’m not that big a dunce.
Hare Nobel
More books will sell
Maybe a movie?
DeCaprio as me!
Hare Clinton
He can sit on
As far as I’m concerned
2000 me he burned
Hare politics
Slogging in the sticks
Love that jet set fare
So, it fouls the air.
Hare love the glow
I’m the star o’ the show
Get it while it’s good
Cause I’m still made of wood!
Oh…Darryl…this isn’t cribbed from some website, it’s all original content, so, please, no “fair use” lectures.
As to all the bouhaha? Like what the doctor said to the guy with gallstones, “This, too, shall pass…”
The Piper
@23…RR…
Word just in from the Anti-Vivesection Society: “In Roger Rabbit’s case, we’re willing to make an exception…Cosmetics companies may experiment away!”
Avon, calling Roger…
The Piper
@2. He can ask Gregoire to share the election she stole. Governorship’s not as swanky as presidentship, but things seem even-Steven to me.
Otherwise, I don’t think the film will be remembered historically as being a scientific success, but will be remembered as an accurate alarm that got the mainstream to accept the fact there’s something up with global warming.
..and as always….science will evolve, hone, and change their view.
@17…RR…
A Nobel medal and $2.99 gets you a bag of carrots at Safeway.
But since you oppose PorkProp 1, you, too, are consigned by the Goreistas to the outer reaches where there is weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth…You refuse to genuflect at the altar of the conventional wisdom, which makes you…JUST LIKE ME!!!
I can offer you a home…and all the fresh carrots you’d ever want. Besides, Kitty wants a plaything.
The Piper
@25
The problem with all this stuff is that it has as underlying premises that growth and prosperity are somehow evil, and that the only thing to do is take, take, take from people and limit, limit, limit their freedoms.
What are you, 5?
We live on a planet where human beings, as a species, have evolved according to the conditions we’ve been presented with and used our very powerful minds to survive them. If humans lived in a place where there was no food, they either moved or died. If humans lived in a place where certain natural disasters were common, they either adapted or died. In all of these instances, human beings debated amongst themselves whether or not to use SCIENCE to guide their decisions, or to use faith.
You represent the viewpoint that leads to extinction. By believing that it’s imperative to always reject any kind of collective action based on science in order to adapt to changing conditions because it affects you personally, you are a walking Darwin Award.
As I’ve mentioned many times before in threads with you, you are emblematic of the pathetic decline in personal responsibility that this country has seen in my lifetime. I’m constantly embarrassed by all of these people who stomp their feet and get hysterical every time a situation demands even the slightest bit of responsibility or accountability. Grow up already. Climate change is a serious problem, and we’re either going to adapt to what’s happening here or we’re going to suffer the consequences.
Hmmm, the Swedes are laughing ? Probably at your knowledge of facts ? The Nobel Prize is given out by the committee in NORWAY (that’s close to Sweden, but it’s not Sweden). Maybe to you it’s all the same…but trust me…it’s not.
This is wonderful news. Gore is a hero, far beyond being a mere politician.
A few quick thoughts:
1. Who will Gore endorse? If he endorses HRC the race is done.
2. Is this the beginning of a world wide revulsion vs. antiscientific blasphemy? There is something similar between the Luddites and blasphemers. While laws can not do much good, public revulsion with IS, creationism, stem cell fantasies, etc would be a good thing.
3. Lets see….
Republicans with Nobels … none?
Dems with Nobels … 2? Lots more if you include the world beyond politics.
Piper, did you forget to take me today?
@30…Dutch…
Norway…Sweden…it’s all good…it’s all Ballard!
The Piper
@31…SJ…
Oops! Teddy Roosevelt, 1905 for brokering an end to the Russia-Japan war.
Now I’m a blasphemer??? Ooohhh…what’s next? Burning me at the stake?
Gore and Jimmy “Let’s negotiate with Iran; I did such a bang-up job of it in 1979” Carter…two identical turds in the toidie.
Gore endorse Hillary??? He and the Clintons don’t vacation or take warm showers together…Don’t bet on it.
DeCaprio or George Clooney in “The True Messiah: The Still Life and Boring Times of Al Gore.” Who will it be?
The Piper
@32…M…
Nope…you guys took it all!
Enjoy the trip!
The Piper
@22…RR…
Careful…Your mention of Easter is a violation of the separation of church and HA.
I, however, have always respected the symbiotic relationship between Easter and bunnies…I like to eat their ears first, then munch up their legs and bods, saving a devouring of their faces until last.
The Piper
Piper @ 25:
The problem with all this stuff is that it has as underlying premises that growth and prosperity are somehow evil, and that the only thing to do is take, take, take from people and limit, limit, limit their freedoms.
I don’t know how old you are or how much they let you out of Latteland.
Ever see pictures in your Northwest history class of the “No Swimming” signs around Lake Washington? Remember the huge cleanup of toxins that had to be done at Gasworks (you still can’t swim there) or at the oil plant where Zymogenetics is now?
Go through any Chinese city and check out the air. This isn’t Los Angeles smog multiplied. You get to see smokestacks putting out really unhealthy opaque yellow plumes. You look at it and say “Shit! I’m breathing that.”
The rivers are black. I mean they are literally so full of crap they’ve turned black. Nothing lives in them. They stay that way years after everyone says “Oh shit! Maybe we shouldn’t throw crap in the river!” (I still would not swim the Tamshui river in Taipei, and they’ve been actively working for 15 years to clean it up).
Now, on an economic side, it works. It has made a lot of money. It did here, and we cleaned it up for the most part. The pulp mills along I-5 don’t stink nearly as bad as they did when I was a kid. Neither the mess nor the cleanup of that mess was cost-free. What we did in the US at the turn of the century, and what Japan did in the 50s and the Asian Tigers did in the 70s and 80s is being done in a lot more places now. That money is coming at a cost, and the cost is pretty severe. Let me take you to the Pudong around Shanghai. It will be an Experience, I promise.
If you want to believe that greens in general or Gore in particular are knee-jerk anti-capitalists, you just keep telling yourself that.
The goal is to try to deliver economic growth and do so in a way that doesn’t trash everything in the process. I’d argue you can do that in a way that makes better economic sense than the current grow/slash-n-burn/clean up later model that’s been done for the last 150 years. Yes, growing green will cost some now dollars. However, mega clean-up projects that are done after the fact are not free. You will likely save money in the long term by cleaning your messes as you go along.
Hey Piper, nice job of not engaging on the issues.
What’s the matter, afraid you can’t support your sweeping generalizations?
Piper, quit stealing my oeuvre. There is only space enough for one batshit crazy, nonsense spouting, crank wingnut tranvestite in the Republican Party.
Go fuck yourself you faggot.
I find it strange that Professor Lonnie G. Thompson, of Ohio State University, School of Earth Sciences & Byrd Polar Research Center didn’t receive 1/4 Nobel Prize with Mr. Gore. According to the Nobel Website 1/2 the Nobel Peace Prize went to Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) and it was split with Mr. Al Gore. I think it would be only right that Mr. Gore should split 1/2 his prize with Professor Thompson.
If one didn’t fall asleep in Mr. Gore’s movie, one would know Mr. Gore received a majority of the Scientific Date and Information for his movie from Professor Lonnie G. Thompson, a man who has spent more time above 18,000 feet than any other person on Earth, according to Rolling Stone Magazine. Can someone tell me why the Nobel Foundation didn’t recognize Glaciologist Professor Lonnie G. Thompson and why he didn’t receive 1/4 award, if Mr. Gore presented his Scientific Date / Information in his film?
Piper Scott,
“I’m not opposed to looking at demographic data per se, but billions???”
Your failure to understand the significance is merely a failure on your part. The spending is not otherwise controversial.
“Ehrlich was wrong then with his alarmis views. We didn’t starve to death by the mid-80’s despite never achieving zero population growth.”
Like the faithful wingnut you are, you saw the leaves but missed the forest. The fact is, millions of people have died of starvation. Hundreds of millions of people today live with hunger.
“The problem with all this stuff is that it has as underlying premises that growth and prosperity are somehow evil, and that the only thing to do is take, take, take from people and limit, limit, limit their freedoms.”
Is that how the current Wingnuttia distill the problem down? What morons!
“Al Gore is, at heart and by nature, a politician.”
I agree.
“That statement is proof enough to validate deep misgivings over anything he says.”
Ummm…sure…if you are Wingnut. The difference between you ideologues and the reality-based community is that we actually examine evidence, claims, support, data, facts.
I know it makes for a simpler world to ignore such things and just live under “ideological theory” but it means you are frequently wrong about things.
@37…JSonCD…
Hey! I’m all in favor of clean air, water, etc., and I remember not only the I-5 pulp mills, but those in the Oregon of my childhood between Lebanon, where my grandmother lived, and Salem, where my uncle lived. We’d have to roll up the windows of the non-airconditioned ’57 Plymouth and hold our noses as were drove past the sulfite mill (sulfite is an acid-based form of pulping). The smell was worse than rotten eggs and rotten tuna mixed together.
Are there real and serious environmental issues? Absolutely!!! Should necessary steps be taken to clean stuff up? Absolutely!!! Are all the problems man made? Absolu…Wait a minute…are they??? Or are there larger factors at work in some cases…factors that are not, as yet, understood?
Here’s something that baffles me…When alarmists say this, that or the other is the warmest “on record” what does that mean??? Only that it’s the warmest since somebody started writing this stuff down. Could things have been warmer prior to that…like over thousands and thousands of years??? And could not other factors contribute???
Skeptic that I am, I’m not about to fall prey to some Chicken Little schtick and join the herd. Call me an iconoclast, but I remain unpersuaded.
The Piper
Goldy @13
“The best available evidence suggests that our climate is warming, and that man-made greenhouse emissions is largely the cause of these short term changes, and considering the potential consequences, it is prudent to act on the evidence we have.”
Which is why you will urge your readers to vote against RTID, right? http://www.nortid.org
@41…D…
Starvation isn’t because of a lack of available food, but because of distribution issues. Try getting food to certain parts of sub-Saharan Africa and you’ll get butchered for your trouble by whichever faction opposes the faction you’re trying to feed.
So much for forrests and trees…
The Piper
@39…AC…
Wow! I guess liberal lefty HA really doesn’t have any standards; it’s willing to offend everyone including the gay and lesbian community by allowing the use of a sexual orientation perjorative.
Uncleverely put, I might add, but that’s beside the point…
What’s next, Mr. Tolerance? Racial slurs? Or do you have to wait for your sheets to come back from he cleaner before you go down that route?
Just when you think it can’t go any lower…it does.
The Piper
Shorter Piper:
“Despite the accumulated weight of peer-reviewed climate science and the steady drumbeat of bad climate-related news, I’m just going to draw phony analogies that superficially support my view that it’s not really that bad.
That way I can sleep at night without actually changing my behavior.”
Piper Scott,
“Starvation isn’t because of a lack of available food, but because of distribution issues.”
In many cases this is true. Even so, high population density confounds the problem by requiring bigger distribution systems. (Not to mention disease, homelessness, increased susceptibility to disasters, and other problems associated with high population density).
“Try getting food to certain parts of sub-Saharan Africa and you’ll get butchered for your trouble by whichever faction opposes the faction you’re trying to feed.”
What the fuck? Piper Scott…you’re fucking retarded!
Piper Scott @ 45
“Wow! I guess liberal lefty HA really doesn’t have any standards”
Well…YOU are allowed to blog here. I guess they don’t!
@47…D…
But it’s not a question of not enough food, it’s a problem of how to get the abundance that exists to people who need it. The problems and barriers you mention are real, no doubt about it, but they’re kinks in the supply hose, not a lack of stuff to flow through it.
And joke all you want about the risks involved in distribution, but would you like to go up against any of the various factions in Ethiopia, Eritrea, Somalia, etc.? I don’t think your liberal credentials would stand you in good stead with any of them. They’re not interested in humanitarian relief; they’re interested in slaughter.
The Piper
@48…D…
So…if some guy does the racial slur equivalent of @39…AC…, you’ll let it slide? You may not be good with it, but as a posting it’s OK by you?
Legit question, and curious to know.
The Piper
Giving Al Gore anything is stupid. The guy’s an elitist son of a formely-entreched Southern political hack and a political hack in his own right. He has no personal worth and no value to the world. He craves power and influence just like the rest of those reprobates in government.
If Al Gore can get the Nobel Peace Prize,
Orson Welles should have recieved it for
War of the Worlds, And The Invasion from Mars
Wow, this is incredible news. Richly deserved.
And, BTW, I think this thread is a first for me in that I find myself in violent agreement with all the bloggers posting in it. :-)
Those writing off Gore as just a politician are exhibiting wishful thinking at this point. No doubt he’s served in office and spent a lot of years in DC, but that doesn’t make him a political gold digger now. We all recognize Al Gore’s style in office-seeking mode, and he’s not been there for some time.
One of my favorite Al Gore political speeches:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=AYuqoKxRhMg
@46…OM…
The prevailing wisdom of its day had the sun rotating around the earth.
Is it theory or is it fact? If it’s fact, then there must not be any doubt whatsoever in the minds of anyone, correct? Can you say that; can you say that not one single reputable academically and experientially qualified scientist takes even the slightest issue with Al Gore, et al?
BTW…this past summer in the PNW sucked from a weather standpoint! Cool, damp, dreary…screwed up my veggie patch for certain…
Last year’s and the one before that were great! Hot, dry and good for the garden.
Or is there still room for doubt? Is the jury still out on a lot of this stuff?
The Piper
It would appear that the current occupant at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. still hasn’t figured out that there’s not a Nobel War Prize.
re 1 — Milton Freidman got the Nobel as well for his simplistic nostrums. What’s your point?
Are we now going to see Norway added to the wingfucks’ definition of the “Axis of Evil”?
@56…JHDD…
I’ll have to admit, they get it right every once in awhile. But Milton got it for economics, not piece…peas…whatever.
The Piper
6 This might be the first time I’ve seen a rectum referred to as “sand”.
Where does it say that Roger gets to do all the one-liners?
@57…AF…
No…it will be added to the Axis of Lutefisk…
Uff da!
The Piper
The prevailing wisdom of its day had the sun rotating around the earth.
Is it theory or is it fact?
There was never any scientific experimentation that went behind the theory that the sun rotated around the earth. But there is an enormous amount of scientific evidence that shows that human activity is causing the planet to experience climate change.
Or is there still room for doubt? Is the jury still out on a lot of this stuff?
No, it’s not. This is why we’re making fun of you. You’re like an 8 year old arguing with the adults after they told you that Santa Claus doesn’t exist. What the hell is wrong with you?
re 5: Coping with an overpopulated world is not synonymous with overpopulation not being A HUGE PROBLEM.
Are you saying that the population as it stands now makes for a better world than if their were a few LESS billions of people.
Your logic is that of the teenager who wrecks his parents car and says: “You should be grateful, at least no one died!”
@60…AF…
His have a level of charm, wit, and skill. Yours a level calling for a flush.
May all your days be cheery!
The Piper
IMO the globe is warming.
It is not due to human, manmade, means.
Q – If we could stop global warming, what climate set is best? where should we “set the temp”? who should decide what the best climate is?
Al Gore is a snake oil salesman, with a slick PP presentation. Good for him winning the Nobel. Too bad the award is now diminished to such a laughable stature.
Piper Scott,
“So…if some guy does the racial slur equivalent of @39…AC…, you’ll let it slide?”
You picked a bad example, since 39 was obviously satire. But, in general, comments are not deleted because the content is unpleasant.
“You may not be good with it, but as a posting it’s OK by you?”
Unless posts violate HA Comment Policy, it is irrelevant what I think about the content. BTW: the “off-topic” part of the comment policy isn’t a attempt to limit what people say, only where they say it on this blog.
Consider this. If we were in the business of deleting repulsive, pointless, or inane comments, a good fraction of your comments would likely be blown away….
@63…JHDD…
So…tell me…which several billion people alive today would you prefer to see liquidated? Or never born in the first place? Start with yourself and we might get somewhere!
The whole Club of Rome, “Limits to Growth,” “Population Bomb,” sky is falling series of scenarios didn’t happen. Driven by elitist visions of the subjegation of the masses to a POV developed by their betters – and peer reviewed by a lot of know-nothing academics of their day – today’s Nobel news may well end up as one more log on that fire. We’ll have to see.
And since each of my five children did, in fact, wreck at least one car while they were in their teens, I was indeed grateful – profoundly and humbly grateful – that no one died.
If it was your kid, wouldn’t you be? Or have you consigned your children to the list of billions to be wiped off the face of the earth?
The Piper
@65
IMO the globe is warming.
It is not due to human, manmade, means.
What is your basis for this belief, then? Even Bjorn Lomborg, who has spent his entire adult life trying to debunk global warming, concedes that global warming both exists and is man made. Again, I’ll ask you what I’ve asked crackpiper, what in hell is wrong with you people? Why are you so intent on believing in something that has been thoroughly proven wrong?
@62…Lee…
So…if I can show you one qualified person who disagrees with your POV, will you, then, acknowledge that some doubt still exists???
The Piper
@66…D…
Not to certain those in the gay and lesbian community would find the so-called “satire” particularly amusing. Replace the offensive word AC use with the “N” word and see what people in the black community think.
Since you’re an academic at a university, you know that, while you can use a lot of vulgar language these days with impunity, racist and homophobic slurs will get you hung, alleged satiric nature of same notwithstanding. Ask Don Imus.
The Piper
Piper Scott,
“So…if I can show you one qualified person who disagrees with your POV, will you, then, acknowledge that some doubt still exists???”
Yeah…sure…in kindergartenville. Grow the fuck up, asshole.
You know…I can point out an eminent scientist who denied continental drift through the 1980s until he died. That doesn’t falsify continental drift, does it?
@54: Wow, do you have like a list of wingnut talking points you’re checking off as you go? Do you get some sort of prize if you hit ’em all?
(ooh, that gives me an idea…Wingnut Bingo!)
Let’s see…
Al Gore’s a political hack…check!
Anti-growth liberals…check!
GW believers just like religious nuts…check!
They were wrong about overpopulation…check!
Bring in Carter and the Clintons for no good reason…check!
Not definitely man made…check!
Anti-evolutionist “theory isn’t fact”…check!
You missed one…”They worried in the ’70s about Global Cooling!” No prize for you!
65 ANYTHING has to be an improvement over giving the Peace Prize for Henry Kissinger, for winding up the spring that finally snapped on 9/11.
@69
So…if I can show you one qualified person who disagrees with your POV, will you, then, acknowledge that some doubt still exists???
There are “qualified people” who peddle intelligent design. Does that mean we should doubt evolution?
Piper Scott,
“Not to certain those in the gay and lesbian community would find the so-called “satire” particularly amusing.”
So?
“Replace the offensive word AC use with the “N” word and see what people in the black community think.”
I am sure some people would find it offensive. What is your point?
“Since you’re an academic at a university, you know that, while you can use a lot of vulgar language these days with impunity, racist and homophobic slurs will get you hung, alleged satiric nature of same notwithstanding. Ask Don Imus.”
I’m not sure what being “an academic at a University” has to do with it. I think a lot of people knew Don Imus was fired for his racist comments. What, exactly, is your point?
@70
Since you’re an academic at a university, you know that, while you can use a lot of vulgar language these days with impunity, racist and homophobic slurs will get you hung, alleged satiric nature of same notwithstanding. Ask Don Imus.
Well, you should be thanking your lucky stars that you’ve gone through life without your jaw dropping stupidity weeding you out of the gene pool.
@75…D…
Sigh…if my point was any clearer, it would be on a billboard outside your ivy-covered walls!
Simply this: an otherwise germane-to-the-issue post yet loaded with racial or homophobic or other slurs won’t get deleted…correct?
The Piper
Piper Scott,
“Simply this: an otherwise germane-to-the-issue post yet loaded with racial or homophobic or other slurs won’t get deleted…correct?”
You would have to ask Goldy to be sure, but in general the answer is (as I made clear as the simulated-ivory wall-paper @66) no. Otherwise, I suspect much of your tripe would be weeded out….
@68
If then we, man, is responsible for global climate warming…And we can somehow stop it…Where should we stop it? Who decides where best to set the climate?
We can get into “my scientist is more credible than your scientist” all day long.
You have chosen to believe that man made global warming is occuring and I chose to believe that nature is behind global warming.
Whichever side one falls on, Al Gore is still a snake oil salesman. peddling his hype so as to create demand for his “carbon-credits” interests.
@74…Lee…
Clever the way you dodge the issue…
You contend that your POV is absolute truth, settled fact, cast in more concrete than Hoover Dam, true for all people under all circumstances and for all time and eternity. No room for doubt or need for questioning…zero error…110%correct not just in material issues, but down to the minutist punctuaion mark.
While that raises an interesting point about the nature of liberals and absolutes, an argument on that score is best left for another day.
My point is you claim there is no doubt. When I asked whether a contrary opinion by someone with legitimate credentials to speak on the subject doesn’t, by definition, create doubt, you sidestepped by insinuating that the only doubters would be of the “creationist” stripe, which is an implicit dismissal not only of the doubter’s opinion, but his or her qualification to have one since I’m sure you dismiss creationism as religious fable.
All your BS aside, how do you answer qualified scientists who question the orthodoxy you subscribe to? Or do you simply swear at them, too?
The Piper
Piper delves into the history books: “The prevailing wisdom of its day had the sun rotating around the earth.”
Which was a hypothesis that was (despite Lee’s claim @ 62 above) disproven by a lot of meticulous observational work (work that was done under the threat of excommunication or worse). This is a classic example of how science works.
It is now a fact that the earth rotates around the sun.
Gravity is the theory.
The wingnuttiae always confuse the two, and attempt to disprove the theory using rhetoric, not science (the so called “theory of intelligent design” being a prime example).
Piper @ 32:
Are you saying that Gore got the award from the academy of sciences in Ballard ? Well, now I understand the importance of this award and why Goldstein and co are so excited about this. :-)
Piper @ 80: Do you doubt your doubt on global warming? Do you doubt the “theory” of intelligent design? Is flouridation a communist plot?
We absolutist liberals demand answers!
@25 “So…you use UW time and resources to blog? Isn’t there something in the Washington State Constitution forbidding the making of gifts of public assets???”
U.W. professors are paid to educate the public, dumbass, although in your case that’s “Mission Impossible.”
@25 (continued) Typical wingnut … loses an argument … so resorts to ad hominem attacks … let’s check the scoreboard again:
Darryl 1, Piper 0
Piper: How do we know that we know?
@26 Gotta catch me first. Many have tried, but I’m still here … let’s check that scoreboard again:
Liberals 2, Piper 0
The whole debate comes down to who you choose to believe: a mind-boggling array of scientists from around the world who are in general consensus, or a SINGLE political party that trots out ‘experts’ who, upon further review, have little expertise on the subject and whose services are bought and paid for by those who either see profit in polluting or see their opposition as a sort of globalist conspiracy along the lines of the usual ultra-rightist “Zionist Occupation Government” hooey.
The irony is that the it’s not anti-American, since despite the hysteria of the denialists, many American business, consumers and governments have begun the process to clean up the mess in general in an attempt to slow the effect down. It’s been stated pretty clearly that the real offenders (aside from the denialists), are China, India, and Russia, who are polluting at rates far beyond that of the US.
It’s about what you choose to believe. Facts, or lies. I’d love to believe that this is just a brief cycle, and that the warming will become a peiod of cooling. But the facts just don’t lead to that conclusion.
Piper asks: “When I asked whether a contrary opinion by someone with legitimate credentials to speak on the subject doesn’t, by definition, create doubt…”
The answer is: Not necessarily.
227 Gregoire didn’t steal any election. Rossi lost because he didn’t steal enough votes in Snohomish and Yakima counties.
Piper Scott and fellow travelers
http://www.ipcc.ch
Read the Fourth Assessment Report.
Working Group I Report “The Physical Science Basis” online at http://ipcc-wg1.ucar.edu/wg1/wg1-report.html
Working Group II Report “Impacts, Adaptation and Vulnerability” online at http://www.ipcc-wg2.org/
Working Group III Report “Mitigation of Climate Change” online at http://www.mnp.nl/ipcc/pages_m.....pters.html (pre-copy edit)
Read those, then come back and try to sound like you’re not a completely and utterly ignorant on this topic.
Piper Scott,
“All your BS aside, how do you answer qualified scientists who question the orthodoxy you subscribe to? Or do you simply swear at them, too?”
Since you are not a scientist (and, in fact show typical wingnut anti-science tendencies), I know this is hard for you to believe. But the existence of anthropogenic global warming is not about opinion. It is about evidence, scientific theory, and tests of theory using the evidence. The fact is, scientists have understood the fundamental principles that underly the current concerns since the late 1800–that is, they recognize the spectrum of infrared radiation that excites C02 molecules. We also know that humans are digging up ancient carbon deposits and dumping them into the atmosphere as C02. Since the 1960 when climatologists started seriously considering the implications of dumping millions of tons of carbon into the atmosphere, there have been thousands of experiments, observations, and tests of the underlying theory. The result is that little uncertainty remains that the tons upon tons of C02 pumped into the atmosphere is changing the gradient of head in the atmosphere (warmer nearer the surface and colder higher up).
The controversies over anthropogenic climate change have more to do with politics and economics than with the fundamental science. But, since you don’t know the science, you are not in a very good position to make a statement either way about the science. Most of us must from an opinion by listening to the scientific consensus, but the scientists that we listen to are using fact, evidence, theory and tests of theory.
@28 “A Nobel medal and $2.99 gets you a bag of carrots at Safeway.”
Really? Nope, the Nobel is one of the world’s most prestigious awards, and comes with a tax-free stipend of $1,500,000. Let’s check the leaderboard again:
Liberals 3, Piper 0
88 BJ
There is political disagreement on global anthopocentric climate change, but there is no scientific controversy.
Of course, it’s customary for crotchety authors nobody ever heard of until they win the Nobel and their books begin to sell like crazy to say they didn’t really want it — but they always cash the check anyway.
@31 “Republicans with Nobels … none? Dems with Nobels … 2? Lots more if you include the world beyond politics.”
This is to be expected, considering all of the world’s learned men and women are liberals, and most Republicans can’t even spell their own fucking names.
@94: I wonder if Kissinger used his prize to set up a few orphenages in Cambodia. Nah. Probably not.
Right stuff
91 is for you, too.
@22 “Roger Rabbit says: … Easter Island …”
“Piper Scott says: Careful…Your mention of Easter is a violation of the separation of church and …”
Just a reminder — you’re in intellectual company here, among whom it’s uncool to not know the difference between geography and religion.
@25 “The problem with all this stuff is that it has as underlying premises that growth and prosperity are somehow evil, and that the only thing to do is take, take, take from people and limit, limit, limit their freedoms.”
Somehow you strike me as the kind of lunkhead who would think that shutting down Nazi labor camps is limiting Germany’s growth and prosperity, taking from German entrepreneurs, and limiting their freedom.
I’m gonna nominate Piper for the Rabbit Alternative Nobel Prize for his contributions toward depopulating Earth of humans so we rabbits can take over the niche currently occupied by nature’s dumbest species — Republicans.
Wow! This thread is already over 100 posts! Looks like Gore’s Nobel Prize has pushed the wingnuts’ buttons — GOOD!!! Now if the sea level rises another 20 feet and drowns them all, we’re in business.
@81…PTBAA…
True, gravity is a THEORY!
Yet aren’t many of you flogging the global warming not as theory but indisputable, irrefutable, incontrovertable, absolute, HOLY GOSPEL FACT!!!
And you pagans accuse us righty tighty types of blind faith!
BTW…to set the record straight…I don’t muck about with either the beginning of things or the end of things; I deal with the today of things. I’m content to believe that however He did it, God ordered the universe just so.
Whether it took as many years as some contend or as few as do others, it happened just the way God wanted. And it will end in His timing too. It’s more the “in the meantime” that concerns me.
And “in the meantime” it is important to be the best possible stewards of the planet, which includes being as honest as we can about what’s our responsibility and what’s not.
I’m sure there are some things we can address. I’m equally sure that no matter how hard we address others, we’re impotent to effect what naturally occurs.
Al Gore may think of himself that way, but King Canute he is not! No amount of protestation from him, acceptance by the botox set in Hollywood, or adulation as this year’s equivalent of Yasser Arafat will give him the ability to command the tide to stand still.
The Piper
@40 By analogy, we should give your mother half the credit for your stupidity. Your father deserves the other half.
@44 “Starvation isn’t because of a lack of available food”
No, distribution is only one of the causes of starvation. People also starve because of lack of available food. There are some other causes, as well. Court orders, for example.
@45 A wingnut complaining about insulting speech is like Ted Bundy complaining about the crime rate.
Luigi says:
“Because a majority or consensus believes something doesn’t make it true or valid.”
Of course it doesn’t. But if you’re going to make policy on climate change and ALL the experts say global warming is happening right now and that it’s caused by human activity, wouldn’t it make sense to figure they’re right, and to make policy accordingly? The experts might be wrong, but you’ve got to make a policy now. Do you think it makes more sense to make policy that assumes ALL the experts are wrong? And if you decide not to do anything, that assumes ALL the experts are wrong, too.
@98…RR…
Easter Island, owned by Chile (how did they end up with it?), and home to the famous tiki heads, miniatures of which were all the rage to wear around your neck when I was in the 5th grade, is most definitely a historic and geographic reality.
Yet it can’t escape its name: Easter…Since Easter originates in a religious context, liberal orthodoxy demands it be stricken from the lexicon since the Establishment Clause of the 1st Amendment guarantees us not freedom OF religion, but freedom FROM religion…
Or haven’t you been following the flap over certificates associated with American flags flown over the capitol? It’s been in all the papers…
The Piper
@45, 47 – Actually, if you delved into it, you would find that too large a population in relation to the agricultural land base lay at the heart of the Rwanda genocide. Also, some Pacific Islander societies fended off starvation by setting their surplus population adrift at sea in canoes. When a human society’s population grows larger than its food base can support, reducing the society’s population through suicide or homicide is a typical survival response.
@106…E…
“ALL the experts?” Without exception? 100% of them? No room for any differing opinion???
Talk about absolutism!
The Piper
From the IPCC Fourth Assessment Report, Working Group I Report “The Physical Science Basis,” Summary for Policymakers, http://ipcc-wg1.ucar.edu/wg1/R.....nt_SPM.pdf :
Note on terminology: In the Summary for Policymakers, the following terms have been used to indicate the assessed likelihood, using expert judgement, of an outcome or a result:
Virtually certain > 99% probability of occurrence
Extremely likely > 95%
Very likely > 90%
Likely > 66%
More likely than not > 50%
Unlikely Very unlikely Extremely unlikely
IPCC, 2007: Summary for Policymakers. In: Climate Change 2007: The Physical Science Basis. Contribution of Working Group I to the Fourth Assessment Report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change [Solomon, S., D. Qin, M. Manning, Z. Chen, M. Marquis, K.B. Averyt, M.Tignor and H.L. Miller (eds.)]. Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, United Kingdom and New York, NY, USA.
@49 So, is it your thesis that human population (or, to take a smaller demographic, Africa’s population) can expand forever if food distribution problems are solved?
@105…RR…
Say what you will, but I don’t use racist or homophobic or otherwise gutter language either in an ad hominum manner or, for that matter, in any manner at all.
Can’t say the same for you all…
Let’s see…who among you endorses the use of racist or homophobic slurs???
Just checking…
The Piper
Putting more fish into a lake doesn’t increase the lake’s food supply. Instead, all the fish end up physically stunted. Likewise, when you have too many Republicans in a country, they all end up mentally stunted.
110 PS
In science, there is always room for differing opinion. But no one has come up with an analysis compelling enough to persuade the thousands of scientists contributing to the IPCC otherwise.
And your boys don’t go for the peer-reviewed route of normal science. Too inconvenient when their analyses are shown to be full of bullshit and error.
Have you read the reports yet?
@112 That’s true, when you guys lose an argument, you usually don’t respond with vulgar language; you just go after the person’s employment.
@99…RR…
Nah…that’s the thinking of those who contend we should have let Saddam Hussein alone to torture and murder his own citizens because it was none of our business…
Oh…wait…that’s…YOUR…POV…
So I guess you’re the one who would have been indifferent to Hitler’s concentration camps. Strictly an internal German political matter.
Thank you for clarifying! And the ghost of Leo Strauss thanks you, too.
The Piper
@115…RR…
That’s right…you haven’t worked since.
The Piper
If day Republicans spend any time at all admitting to the falsity of any of the clearly untrue claims made by their president, vice-president, administration, and Congressional representatives, I’ll consider them a bit more credible as skeptics.
@101…RR…
If the sea level rises 20 feet such that it depopulates the world of rabbits, I’ll call it a fair trade.
Besides…think how that would make some of you owners of beach front property! You’d make a killing!
The Piper
@118…DL…
They do indeed lie awake at night worrying about your regard for them and whether you find them credible. Yes, indeed, you are at the center of the universe.
Your obdt. servant,
The Piper
117 PS
Um, no one went to war with Germany because of their concentration camps. It was because they invaded fucking Poland.
But of course, your ignorance is both complete and boundless.
@102 “True, gravity is a THEORY!”
Why don’t you jump off a cliff to see if it works?
Your arguments against global warming are equally nonsensical. Maybe the problem is you’re too young to notice how much the glaciers on Mt. Rainier and other Northwest mountains have receded over the last 30 or 40 years. You could, if you were interested, find all sorts of photographic and other documentation that arctic habitat is changing because of melting ice … the Inuit are among the peoples most immediately and drastically affected by global warming; if you don’t trust scientists, ask them if the climate is changing.
Your willful ignorance of the subject puts you in the same category of cranks as Holocaust deniers.
121 PS
Oh, yeah, I forgot.
I’m rubber, you’re glue. Everything you say bounces off me and sticks to you.
PS
Read those reports yet?
@107 “Easter Island, owned by Chile (how did they end up with it?)”
The same way the nationality of all islands is determined — they sent a warship and planted their flag on it.
@110…DL…
I must say you birds are keeping me running this afternoon! Good times, eh what?
Google: “IPCC disagree” and you get some 78,000 hits. What they say ain’t on the order of the 10 Commandments.
The Piper
@107 (continued) If someone else wanted to own it, all they’d have to do is send more and bigger warships — ask the Argentinians viz. Falkland Islands how that works.
125…RR…
You got a flag? You could borrow the one that flies over Hef’s mansion…then go plant it up on Guemes Island and create your own Roger Rabbit Den of Cupidity!
The Piper
123 RR
Yep. 10 years ago there were 150 glaciers in Glacier National Park. Today there are 27, and although they haven’t been measuring ans estimating their disappearance very long, they claim that “They’re about eight and a half years ahead of schedule” in their disappearance.
http://www.usatoday.com/weathe.....htm?csp=34
Now, why we should believe a research ecologist with the U.S. Geological Survey and not Piper Scott they failed to advise.
@107 So what’s your fucking point? That the name “Easter Island” is offensive to you? Fuck you, and fuck your wingnut political correctness! The name is established by tradition, I’m used to it, and what’s more, I don’t give a shit what you like or don’t like. So, I think I’ll keep it. Suck on it.
acceptance by the botox set in Hollywood
BINGO!
Arguing with global warming deniers is like arguing with Holocaust deniers: They believe what they want to; and in their hearts they’re all Nazis.
@121…DL…
Much truth in what you say…sad to admit it, too. Yet had Chamberlain and the French faced down Hitler when he militarized the Rhineland (history has proven he had decided to withdraw if challenged), he wouldn’t have been emboldened to go the whole nine yards.
When you let bullies have their way, you simply invite your own destruction.
The Piper
127 PS
Goolgle the number of instances the RWNM has been able to post on the Internet, and that contitutes proof of something?
Gee, why don’t I just repeat myself 79,000 times, and then you’ll think the weight of proof is on the other side.
Read the fucking reports.
132…RR…
You, buddy, are outed!!! Roger Rabbit and Joel “Goes for the Jugular” Connelly are one and the same! Either that or Rog is stealing Joel’s lines.
What’s the matter, Rog, to tired and late in the day to come up with fresh ones? Not enough scab-picked, pesticide-laden Safeway carrots today?
The Piper
@128 There was a war over a cow up there somewhere, so why not a rabbit war? But we rabbits don’t need to fight, all we need to do is wait for you humans to kill yourselves off, then we’re going to make more rabbits and occupy all the space you’ve been taking up, and rabbits will be the dominant species and I’ll be their king!
This planet has no problems that Nature can’t solve by the extinction of one species.
134
Clearly France and England should have invaded the rapidly arming industrial giant of Europe, pushed aside its puny largest-in-Europe modern mechanized army fresh off trial runs in Spain, occupied a nation full of pissed-off Germans, and refused to rebuild the country while defending it against counter-attack from his allies Russia, Italy, and Spain. I’m sure we’d have all been so much better off. Things would have been just peachy.
@130…RR…
No, the name isn’t offensive…quite the contrary since I find it charming. Given the historic nexus between Easter and rabbits, I vote we round you all up and ship you there…just in time for Easter!
Hmmmm…I wonder what rabbit chili in Chile tastes like?
The Piper
@133 “When you let bullies have their way, you simply invite your own destruction.”
Exactly! That’s why Democrats who kowtow to Republicans are dead wrong. We’ll save ourselves a lot of grief in the future if we kick some wingnut asses now.
@139 Meet me at my burrow at 9 PM tonight, and bring a gun so I can claim self-defense.
90 Also because neither could he steal enough votes, nor could Dale Foreman snowball a judge in Chelan County.
I never cease to be amazed at how these big-talking wingnut swaggerers think they can push us liberals around whenever they feel like it, when the closest any of them ever got to a ral fight was a deferment application form.
erratum
real
@80
You contend that your POV is absolute truth, settled fact, cast in more concrete than Hoover Dam, true for all people under all circumstances and for all time and eternity. No room for doubt or need for questioning…zero error…110%correct not just in material issues, but down to the minutist punctuaion mark.
Yes, it is. The fact that global warming is happening and it is caused by man is entirely settled at this point. The only arguments right now are occurring over how severe this problem will be.
While that raises an interesting point about the nature of liberals and absolutes, an argument on that score is best left for another day.
What in god’s name are you babbling about? Is there any limit to how much you’re going to embarrass yourself in this thread?
My point is you claim there is no doubt.
I don’t give a fuck if there’s doubt. There are people our there who doubt a lot of things that are scientifically settled. Just because doubt exists doesn’t mean that science just gets tossed out the window and everyone gets to believe what they want to believe. In your world, the earth wasn’t really round until the flat earth folks stopped doubting it. We’re not talking about beliefs here, we’re talking about scientific discovery. A lot of scientists question what Al Gore has said about the severity of global warming, but only the craziest of the cranks still doubt that global warming is man made.
When I asked whether a contrary opinion by someone with legitimate credentials to speak on the subject doesn’t, by definition, create doubt, you sidestepped by insinuating that the only doubters would be of the “creationist” stripe, which is an implicit dismissal not only of the doubter’s opinion, but his or her qualification to have one since I’m sure you dismiss creationism as religious fable.
Creationism IS a religious fable, you idiot. As I said, someone could doubt the theory of gravity if they wanted to, but that doubt has no bearing on the scientific reality of the theory of gravity. Science is not a popularity contest. It’s a mechanism for discovering truth. I was a global warming skeptic for a while, but I’m not any more. Why? Because climatologists and other scientists have overwhelmingly shown that global warming is happening and that it’s caused by man. The fact that there are still doubters says much more about the soundness of the doubters than the soundness of the science.
All your BS aside, how do you answer qualified scientists who question the orthodoxy you subscribe to? Or do you simply swear at them, too?
They are people who obviously have an agenda because they are denying what is not an undeniable scientific realization. And you can believe all you want that Al Gore has his own agenda, but the reality is that scientific discovery backs up his basic premise, even the recent ruling in England makes that very, very clear.
@135 I suggest you and XmasGhost compare notes and try to get together on whether I’m Joel or Goldy.
history has proven [Hitler] had decided to withdraw if challenged
If I can come up with one credible historian who disagrees with this will you admit it’s not “proved” at all? By your own logic you must say yes!
Oh, and whatever happened to Godwin’s Law, anyway?
@135 (continued) It doesn’t look good when you wingnuts can’t agree among yourselfs. What happened to your message discipline?
yourselves
They are people who obviously have an agenda because they are denying what is not an undeniable scientific realization.
That should be…
They are people who obviously have an agenda because they are denying what is now an undeniable scientific realization.
@138…DL…
“If France had then marched into the Rhineland, we would have had to withdraw with our tails between our legs.” – Hitler
http://www.historylearningsite.....d_1936.htm
Had the UK and France faced Hitler down in March 1936, which was before the Spanish Civil war that broke out in July 1936, Hitler would have backed down, he wouldn’t have seen the Western powers as weak, and his plans for conquest, domination, and genocide may well have been blunted by forces in his own country.
BTW…the German-Russian treaty to which you implicitely refer wasn’t singed until 1939.
In a handful of words, you get more facts wrong than…maybe anyone since Al Gore.
After a stupid post like that, you expect me to lend credence to ANYTHING you say?
The Piper
Wow! This thread is already up to 150 posts! Global warming really sticks in your throats, doesn’t it, wingnuts? Choke on it.
@141…RR…
Self-defense with what? Again…you’re not anatomically correct enough to use a weapon of any kind let alone a firearm.
The Piper
@151 Are you stupid enough to believe Hitler had a milder, less aggressive, Plan B to fall back on if “lebensraum” didn’t work out?
Or would he have just aid, “Okay, I failed, so it’s someone else’s turn to be Chancellor and try to solve Germany’s problems.”
@152…RR…
Given that probably 25 – 33% of the posts are mine, and I consider the whole thing to be a joke…no, it doesn’t stick in my throat…I’m laughing all the while!!!
The Piper
148
Yes, I was going to dispute that as well, but decided instead to spin out his scenario. They think force solves everything except that which can be resolved by even more force. And lots of will. Or something.
And the only thing wrong with WWII was that there was not enogh force.
@154
@151 Are you stupid enough to believe Hitler had a milder, less aggressive, Plan B to fall back on if “lebensraum” didn’t work out?
Yes, he is. Have you not noticed that already?
140 “Exactly! That’s why Democrats who kowtow to Republicans are dead wrong.”
And that’s why I’m increasingly coming to believe that we are truly fucked.
@154…RR…
Hitler cultivated a myth of invincability that would have been shattered had the French called his bluff. Even in 1936, his hold on power wasn’t without its tenuous moments.
Forcing him to retreat from the Rhineland would have been a humiliation for Germany and Hitler, personally. Instead, he was handed a bloodless victory and given ammunition with which to cow his nervous generals.
Even so, Hitler was quoted as saying it was the most nerve-wracking 48-hours of his life.
Don’t tell me that you guys are now going to contend that letting him have the Rhineland, et al, was a step on the road to “Peace in our time,” are you?
The Piper
158 and before Piper flaps about “you mean you commie libs, don’t you?”….no. I mean the entire planet and everything that creepeth upon it and flyeth over it and swimmeth in its fetid waters.
Ain’t gonna be no “rapture” either. The fundies get to join the rest of us in the fun as what’s left of “civilized society” dissolves in its own shit.
Have a nice weekend.
152 PS
So, based on your own citation there was zero chance of this happening, but you assert that if the impossible had happened that you knwo excatly what would have followed.
Um, what were you predicting in March 2003? And based pon what I assme was a colossal failure of your predictive powers in that instance, why should we accede to you any credbility in EITHER your prediction of the likeliest outcome of the occurrence of an impossibility in 1936 OR on the subject at hand, which you have left far behind?
BTW, in 1936 the Fascists in Spain were armed and ready, Mussolini had been in power in Italy for fourteen years, and Russia would have viewed a Franco-British invasion of Germany with both suspicion and alarm, if not military action.
But enough about rehashing World War II.
Have you read the reports? Yet?
Sure, Hitler might have backed away from the Rhineland … temporarily … because Germany was weak at the time. But Hitler always knew he couldn’t achieve his aims without war, and began arming Germany on day one. In 1938, he assured his generals the German military wouldn’t have to fight a general war before 1945 — implicit in that discussion was Hitler’s belief there WOULD be a war and 1945 was the latest date at which Germany could start it and still have a chance to win. While Hitler was genuinely surprised that England and France went to war over Poland, there was never a time when Hitler didn’t expect an eventual war and didn’t intend to fight a war. War was essential to his ambitions, and was the very heart of his scheme to restore Germany to power and glory.
@159
No, what we’re saying is that the entire Nazi movement was rooted in humiliation in the first place (Treaty of Versailles and the humiliating aftermath of WWI), so humiliating them even more would have just caused them to be even more determined in their collective nationalist madness. This gets at the heart of why you don’t understand anything about what’s happening in Iraq either. You can’t stop irrational radicalism by trying to make people feel powerless.
@147…OM…
There’s a massive difference between something that happened in the past, which is ascertainable by the principle character’s own words, and conjectures about the future.
Can historians disagree? Of course; I once read one who stupidly claimed WW II was Churchill’s fault because he provoked Hitler. That he wasn’t PM until 1940 and was dismissed as a crank by both Tory and Labor leadership until just prior to the invasion of Poland wasn’t relevent. It was all Churchill’s fault.
I’d love to hear what Sir Winston would say about global warming…
The Piper
@159 “Even in 1936, his hold on power wasn’t without its tenuous moments.”
Well, gee, even in 1944 his hold on power wasn’t without its tenuous moments. In hindsight, they should have hanged him in 1928 when they had the chance and it would have been easy! If we take any lesson at all from history, it should be not to make the same mistake with any resurgent fascist movements that crop up, including the current one in the United States.
Hmmm, turns out a British judge ruled that Gore’s movie contains 9 falsehoods and a request has been made to the Academy to require the producers to return the Oscar………
@164
I’d love to hear what Sir Winston would say about global warming…
Hahahahahaha!! Crackpiper, you are so adorable.
@166
Hmmm, turns out a British judge ruled that Gore’s movie contains 9 falsehoods and a request has been made to the Academy to require the producers to return the Oscar………
My god, the stupids are everywhere today. Dudley, please see comment #24.
@153 “Self-defense with what? Again…you’re not anatomically correct enough to use a weapon of any kind let alone a firearm.”
You reall ARE ignorant, aren’t you? Pick me up by my ears and you’ll see.
Photo 1: http://tinyurl.com/ya8knz (The means)
Photo 2: http://tinyurl.com/njv8z (The end)
erratum
really
@166 A request also has been made to return you to your mother.
@163…Lee…
Man, have you got it wrong!
At heart, Hitler was a thug and a bully. At heart, thugs and bullies are cowards. When faced down before they’re strong enough to do serious damage, they retreat.
Hitler would have retreated, and had France and the UK pressed the matter, the as-yet-unready Germany would have been in a serious mess such that the possibility might have existed for a putsch against him by his own generals.
But giving him everything he asked for, his appetite got fed. From William L. Schirer’s “The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich” (I’m typing the quote from my well-worn copy of the book) at pg. 405:
“Conversely, it is equally easy to see, in retrospect, that France’s failure to repel the Wehrmacht battalions and Britain’s failure to back her in what would have been nothing more than a police action was a disaster for the West from which sprang all the later ones of even greater magnitude. In March 1936 the two Western democracies were given their last chance to halt, without the risk of a serious war, the rise of a miliitarized, aggressive, totalitarian Germany and, in fact – as we have seen Hitler admitting – BRING THE NAZI DICTATOR AND HIS REGIME TUMBLING DOWN. The let the chance slip away.” (emphasis added).
Would you like supporting evidence from Albert Speer’s “Inside the Third Reich?” Or do you prefer to continue to make it up as you go along?
And you birds wonder why I won’t simply take your global warming platitudes at face value!
The Piper
@172 WTF does the Allies’ mistakes in the 1930s have to do with global warming?
Meanwhile, Over On The Funny Farm …
… Stefan is bragging about:
1) Bush’s approval rating being higher than Congress’ (20% vs. 16%);
2) Rossi being only 2% behind Gregoire (45% to 47%); and
3) Rompin’ Rudy leading Fred Thompson by 17 points (37% to 20%).
Hmmmm … let’s check the leaderboard:
Liberals 3, Wingnuts 0.
My god, the stupids are everywhere today. Dudley, please see comment #24.
And read this:
http://scienceblogs.com/deltoi....._thing.php
You know things are going well for our side when Stefan crows about Bush’s approval rating breaking into the 20th percentile …
@169…RR…
Sorry…your lack of opposable thumbs renders you incable of wielding a knife in such a fashion. Not even by gripping it with your front footsies could you attain the leverage necessary to make cuts such as those.
And after looking at the linked pic of the Rabbit, I have a few words for you: Marion Jones, Barry Bonds, pee in the cup, banned for life…
Steroid-laced rabbit meat, I’m told, is palatable only after boiling it for two hours. I’m willing to do that, so…where tonight once more, please? Green Lake? Is there still a Spud Fish n’ Chips nearby? I will need my enery for the hunt!
In the meantime, I have a kettle of water to put on the stove…
The Piper
As for Gregoire, it wasn’t so long ago that Rossi had a 30-plus percentage led on her … and now Stefan is bragging that he’s only 2% BEHIND Gregoire.
Yep, things are looking better for us liberals every day!
Meanwhile, the House and Senate minority leaders are standing in front of mirrors practicing saying, “Madam President … ”
Gag on it, trolls!
HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR
2008 is going to be a clean sweep for the Democrats.
@172
At heart, Hitler was a thug and a bully. At heart, thugs and bullies are cowards. When faced down before they’re strong enough to do serious damage, they retreat.
Not necessarily. Often they retreat, try to get stronger, then attack again. By your own logic, after 1991 it would have been pointless to consider Saddam a threat again, wouldn’t it?
Hitler would have retreated, and had France and the UK pressed the matter, the as-yet-unready Germany would have been in a serious mess such that the possibility might have existed for a putsch against him by his own generals.
The same things were said about Saddam after 1991 and it never happened.
The Nazi movement was something that would not have ended until the movement was defeated militarily in a large scale war. There was very little that could have been done to stop it externally. Internally, there’s a different story.
@173…RR…
Somebody said something about Hitler and denying something or other…
An interesting tidbit…It was a pig…In the San Juans…The Pig War was over a Canadian-owned pig shot by an American…No doubt because the pig’s flatus contributed to global warming…
Guess who commanded the American forces sent to San Juan Island at the time? Capt. George E. Pickett, latter to become famous at the Battle of Gettysburg for Pickett’s Charge.
Had the subject been a rabbit instead, the Americans wouldn’t have bothered since Canadians and rabbits deserve each other.
The Piper
And you birds wonder why I won’t simply take your global warming platitudes at face value!
That’s the point. Don’t take us at face value, READ THE REPORT. Even just the executive summary if the science is too hard. Look at the signatories.
Hey, go above and beyond…find out what the scientists’ peers are saying. See if you can find a detractor and work out whether or not they have a point.
DO YOUR FUCKING HOMEWORK. Don’t try to pass off fuzzy-headed “ooh, the press misinterpreted some past science so global climate change must be wrong too” as a response because as you can see you’ll get your ass handed to you.
Not that I expect you to actually do that. It’s much easier to keep your smug superiority if you are, in fact, ignorant.
@180…Lee…
Sorry…but the overwhelming majority of WW II historians hold that Hitler could have been destroyed in the aftermath of facing him down in the Rhineland. Read what I posted from William Schirer who was pretty much on the scene throught the entire time. It’s up @172.
I will say that I remain disappointed to this day that more wasn’t done by Bush the Elder in 1991 to support elements in Iraq seeking to overthrow Saddam. Should have finished him off then.
The Piper
“I’d love to hear what Sir Winston would say about global warming…”
Considering the fact that he was drunk a good deal of the time, I’m not so sure you’d love to hear it.
@183
Sorry…but the overwhelming majority of WW II historians hold that Hitler could have been destroyed in the aftermath of facing him down in the Rhineland. Read what I posted from William Schirer who was pretty much on the scene throught the entire time. It’s up @172.
That’s fine, but what’s incorrect is believing that this would be done by “humiliating” them. I was actually challenging your characterization of what happened rather than the history itself and I pointed it out becuase it’s very indicative of why you’re beyond clueless when it comes to the realities of what’s happening in Iraq.
I will say that I remain disappointed to this day that more wasn’t done by Bush the Elder in 1991 to support elements in Iraq seeking to overthrow Saddam. Should have finished him off then.
There’s a good case to be made that we could have done a lot more at that time to promote a coup, but the reality is that Saddam did recognize that he did not have the capability to challenge our authority again militarily. I also believe the calculations he made after getting beaten in the first Gulf War are calculations that the Nazis never would have made had they been defeated militarily early on. The Nazi movement, and Hitler in particular, felt much more capable of taking over all of Europe – much moreso than Saddam and the Baathists were of taking over all of the Middle East.
It IS fun listening to Piper tell us with 100% certainty that the overwhelming consensus of opinion on how Germany and all other European countries would have behaved had an impossibility occurred is worth considering while the overwhelming consensus of scientific opinion on how a current climate state was reached based on the analysis of the known facts is not, but I have work to do.
May the deity of your choice bless you.
Can someone please enforce the rules .,., or maybe charge piper some nominal fee for excess posting???
The bottom line is this. Al Gore made a courageous decision to devote himself to making this issue a priority for the whole world. He won and deserves IMMENSE admiration and thanks.
Now we need to move on and use the same rational approach to the rest of the delusional world.
Since Commandments come in sets of Ten, I propose the ten facts required of all rational people:
1. embryonic and adult stem cells ARE very different things.
2. there is no little human or even a plan for a little human in any stem cell at least no plan that is not in the cells we slough every day when we wash, shave, or pass feces. If there is some mystical entity present, then that is no different than any other religious belief .. trolls, goblins, reincarnation, heaven, hell … these are reasonable beliefs but should never over rurle science.
3. The Universe began several billion years ago with a singular event. We do not know if there was anything before then or whether there was any “cause.” If there was a cause, we have no reason that it is interested in us today or even that it has any intelligence.
4, Humans evolved from other primates, about 200,000 years ago the first folks who looked like us walked the earth, There were no dinosaurs or republicans around at that time.
5. Humans now know most of what is needed to create life.
6. Government w/o taxation=chaos.
7. All humans are pretty much equal … except my children who are above average.
8. The Earth is finite, we are running out of resources and are filling the place with our wastes.
9. There is no objective evidence that Muhamud ever spoke with an angel, that Jesus was resurrected, or that moses even existed.
10. The fundamental laws of the Universe are the laws of statistics.
Piper, you are worse as a historian than as a psuedo-scientist. Certainly, Hitler’s reoccupation of the Rhineland could have easily been reversed militarily-but there were many factors inhibiting Franco-British response. Factors which you conveniently ignore.
Saddam was a thug, but he was no Hitler. Your analogy is inept, to say the least.
Par for the course, wimp.
@187…SJ…
Hey! I just follow the lead of the posts ahead of me.
I’m glad your children are above average. But shouldn’t you then change your name to Lake Woebegon Jew?
If statistics governed the universe, Pete Rose would be in the MLB Hall of Fame.
Isn’t what most people take as the theory of evolution by now discredited?
Scientific opinion – that’s OPINION – can and does change. Ditto medical opinion per taking children’s cold medicines off store shelves because they apparently are worthless.
Government without taxation…sounds pretty sweet!
I still think you’re an OK chap…despite what everyone else says.
And remember this…controversy draws attention…Attention brings people to HA and increases the number of hits to Goldy’s site…If, as I suspect, his advertisors (more on this in a moment) compensate him on a per hit basis, then my rants and retorts are making him money! That I get squat thereof validates Lee’s thesis that there is no justice…
On one of the other HA pages today, there was Bill O’Reilly’s face! Not in a post or with a dagger through his eye, but in an ad! The Conservative Book Club advertises on HA and this ad featured O’Reilly’s “Culture Wars.”
Golly…what’s next? Ads for Rush Limbaugh and the EIB? Dino Rossi campaign ads? Another nod of the head to Lee in the “sweet justice” department.
In five years, “An Inconvenient Truth” will be packaged with Three Stooges DVD’s in an all time comedy set available at Wal-Mart just in time for holiday gift giving.
Suggested retail price: $3.99.
After all…it’s for the children!
The Piper
Good lord! I go off and do some chores during the day and its 180 posts later, heck 30-40 posts showed up just in reading time to catch up.
Piper, first of all, been kinda busy lately. Begining of the month is always heavy with paper work. That and I just got a new global conquest strategy game. Europa Universalis 3, you might like it since you have shown an interest in history this thread.
That being said, you are wrong about Rhineland. I don’t know which Historians you are referring to but there was no way that Hitler could back down. To do so would have unleashed the monster that he created upon himself. If he was lucky, the Nazi Party would allow him to resign in disgrace. More likely he would suffer a hunting accident and get shot in the face.
History would have been fairly similar in regards to the initial conquest. The difference, rightfully pointed out, would have been the USSR.
Germany had just finished their joint maneuvers training with Russia shortly before the retaking of the Rhineland and Russia was more concerned about England and France than they were about Germany who they believed were secret friends at the time. Russia would have joined in the war on Germany’s side. It wouldn’t have meant much, in regards to Germany’s conquest of France, but it would mean that Germany would not have been bled dry on the Russian Front, later on in the war.
England was on the verge of economic collapse when Japan preemptively attacked at Pearl Harbor, propelling the U.S. into a war with Germany as well. Considering that Japan attacked the U.S. based upon Japan’s timeline, as opposed to Germany’s, it would be safe to say that Japan would not likely have attacked the U.S. any earlier based upon war in Europe that the U.S. was not directly involved in. As such it is not likely the U.S. would not have entered the war in time to have staved off England’s collapse.
Your analogy is flawed, in regards to what might have happened if England and France had gone to war to kick Germany out of the Rhineland. And it would have taken war to do so, as Hitler could not afford to lose face by backing down. However, exactly how does any of this relate to Gore getting the Nobel Peace Prize?
Yasser, Al’s our baby.
“Isn’t what most people take as the theory of evolution by now discredited?”
The Piper
10/12/2007 at 4:02 pm
No. Now that you have completely discredited yourself, shut up.
@189…PTBAA…
Many factors? Like the French wimping out and the British, under the appeasers, willing to give Hitler anything he wanted?
Churchill himself, quoted in Martin Gilbert’s biography of him, said of Hitler’s march into the Rhineland, “…he would have been forced to recoil, and a chance would have been given to the elements in German life which were very powerful especially in the High Command to free Germany of the maniacal Government and system into the grip of which she was falling…” He then went on to say that the Allies acted with “feebleness and lack of clairvoyance” toward the Rhineland and susequent similar encounters.
I think Churchill would have compared Al Gore to Sir Stafford Crips, about whom he said, “He’s a modest little man with much to be modest about.”
The Piper
Couldn’t help but poke my nose back in here…
188 “10. The fundamental laws of the Universe are the laws of statistics.”
From this it may be inferred that the Universe is inherently boring.
@188
11. The Earth and life on it will survive, even if we have a nuclear war. Humans on the other hand have no such guarantee.
“Isn’t what most people take as the theory of evolution by now discredited?”
If by this you mean that man and apes decended from a common ancestor–why no, it has not been discredited.
It is that hypothesis, following as it does from the theory of evolution, that so enrages the common garden variety wingnuttiae. The rest they could give a rat’s ass about. But the rest is the truly beautiful part of the theory.
@194 PS said:
I think Churchill would have compared Al Gore to Sir Stafford Crips, about whom he said, “He’s a modest little man with much to be modest about.”
So Piper, who do you think Churchill would have compared Bush to?
Hitler or Mussolini?
Piper Scott @ 54:
Shit, you are as ignorant of the scientific endeavor and process as your are of…well, everything else!
I know, you stayed on the upper campus your entire college career with all the other “liberal arts” majors, didn’t you? What did you major in, huh? ‘Communications’ I’ll bet. Stayed away entirely from the lower campus where all us math and science geeks hung out, I can tell. Doofus.
@194: Churchill’s clairvoyance? Like Gallipoli? Like his hallucination of keeping the Empire (esp. India) after WW2?
Prior to the 30’s, he was widely regarded as a nutcase, and this low regard was, in many respects, quite correct.
I am not disputing the claim that a forced rollback of the remilitarization would have been difficult-militarily. I’m just saying your overlooking a lot of the other factors which contributed to British and French ‘weakness’.
Hell, we would probably not have invaded Iraq (either time) if we were prostrate economically and politically.
But then you’re a wingnut, and it is pretty funny watching you defending international treaties of the 1920’s.
@191…MC…
Glad to know it was busyness and not ill health keeping you away…
I’ve already cited Shirer’s “The Rise and Fall of the Thired Reich” and Golbert’s “Churchill: A Life.” Now, here’s what Hitler insider and confidante, Albert Speer, has Hitler saying in “Inside the Third Reich:”
“We had no army worth mentioning; at that time it would not even have had the fighting strenght to maintain itself against the Poles. If the French had taken any action, we would have been easily defeated; our resistence would have been over in a few days. And what air force we had then was ridiculous.”
Der Fuhrer’s words himself.
Germany and Russia were implacable foes from the time of Hitler’s rise until the von Ribbentrop-Molotov Treaty of 1939, so where you get the idea that they had joint manuevers in 1936 is beyond me. Additionally, in Hitler’s own words, he didn’t have enough of an army to defend his grab of the Rhineland, let alone manuever with the Russians.
BTW…the power grab that is global warming fear mongering sounds like something right out of Joseph Goebbels propoganda ministry.
The Piper
@198…Ekim…
At a minimum Lincoln…then FDR.
The Piper
@195…AF…
True…
Actuaries breathe statistics…
You know what an actuary is? Someone who doesn’t have the personality to be an accountant.
Al Gore doesn’t have the personality to be an actuary.
The Piper
@202 PS
Ah yes, Bush freed the corporations so they could rule the world.
@200…PTBAA…
Pretty much everything Churchill both predicted and feared would happen in post-independance India and Pakistan did, in fact, happen. Chaos, slaughter, and an over weening exertion of Soviet influence to play one off against the other.
And isn’t a developing India a real greenhouse-gas threat? Why doen’t we declare war against India on environmental grounds? After all, it would be for India’s own good!
The Piper
@204…Ekim…
It’s obviously got your knickers in a knot, so he must have succeeded.
BTW…Wal-Mart called…your slave labor shift starts tonight at midnight. Be there or be square.
The Piper
@185…PTBAA…
What was it Churchill said about being drunk? Oh yes, and I’ll paraphrase for your benefit:
“I may be drunk, PTBAA, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly.” Had he actually said this to you, I’m certain Winnie would have used a stronger descriptive word.
Had he known Al Gore, I’m certain he would have stayed drunk all day and into the night. But Churchill drunk and on his worst day would be better than Al Gore on any day.
The Piper
@199…T…
Communications? No; I have a B.A. in Polical Science with an advanced professional degree. I own a small business. May I conjecture that you majored in social ineptitude, linguistic banality, rhetorical sloppiness, as well as check book balancing? Only a guess, mind you.
The Piper
@206 PS
Gee, I was so sure the correct answer was Bush had freed the Corporations.
So now I’m curious, why is Bush is equal to Lincoln or FDR?
@209…Ekim…
The question was how Churchill would have regarded him, and I think the greatest human being of the 20th-Century would have seen the same grit, tencity, and iron-willed determination that were characteristic of Lincoln, FDR, and Churchill himself.
Time for O’Reilly!
The Piper
Thanks for reminding me. Time for Olbermann!
@211…ATJ…
Watched by you, HA regs and few others…O’Reilly waxes Overthetopman by nearly three to one per Wednesday, 10/10 Nielsens reported at mediabistro.com.
The Piper
@210
The question was how Churchill would have regarded him, and I think the greatest human being of the 20th-Century would have seen the same grit, tencity, and iron-willed determination that were characteristic of Lincoln, FDR, and Churchill himself.
I’m almost peeing myself I’m laughing so hard. Churchill would take one look at Bush and what’s happening in America right now and say “if they’re not careful, they’ll be at war with the entire world soon”.
@212
Watched by you, HA regs and few others…O’Reilly waxes Overthetopman by nearly three to one per Wednesday, 10/10 Nielsens reported at mediabistro.com.
Correct, and for over a decade, more people got their news from the National Enquirer than any other source.
“Why doen’t we declare war against India on environmental grounds?”
If the wingnuttiae were to up the cause of global warming, that would undoubtedly be their ‘solution’.
@213…Lee…
Commercial break from O’Reilly…
He might have disagreed with Dubya, but he would have respected his resolve given his own expereinces as a lone voice in the wilderness…a prophet without honor…until his country desparately needed him to lead it out of the Hell he warned them was their lot for not heeding his warnings.
Churchill would have held today’s so-called progressives with both disdain and contempt as only he could. No one had a firmer grasp on reality than Sir Winston.
The Piper
@215…PTBAA…
Why not? India, China, et al, will continue to spew environmental boogers into the air from now until the sacred cows come home all the while we’re rifle-butting commuters into ST trains.
Give me a break!
The Piper
@201 BTW…the power grab that is global warming fear mongering sounds like something right out of Joseph Goebbels propoganda ministry.
Actually, Piper, a better analogy would be Bush’s War on Terrorism. So far we have an enemy that Bush doesn’t seem to be that intent on hunting down.
Attacked a nation that had nothing to do with the attack on 9/11 by using 9/11 as an excuse.
We are still there because if we leave “The Terrorists will win.”
Even though Al Qeada are barely a factor in the Iraqi Civil War. Accounting for less than 10% of all attacks upon American forces, less than that when you include attacks upon Iraqis and Iraqis view Al Qeada as worse foreign interlopers than the U.S. forces.
We now openly use techniques of torture (atleast so designated by the U.S. State Department prior to Bush taking office,) warrantless wiretaps (upon both Americans and foreigners,) suspended habeous corpus (initially illegally by decree, currently still debatable whether constitutional) and lie about all of the above whenever convenient even in the face of documented evidence.
The right to challenge legallity of illegal actions taken by the Federal Government have been officially ignored by the Supreme Court this week, due to “National Security.”
These are actions that are similar to Goebbels propoganda ministry. Alerting people to the danger of polar ice sheets melting and the changes in weather patterns/jet stream paths and getting people to work together to avoid/alleviate the worst of the problems is called Leadership. I understand that it is something Republicans are unfamiliar with.
However, when you, and many of the Republican Noise Machine, try to make such spurious analogies towards with Hitler and Nazism when Republicans are the ones using their playbook currently really makes me question either the sanity of the proposer or their sincerity. I don’t question their intelligence as even a moron with an IQ below 50 can see the difference. And Piper, you may be a Republican, but you are not a moron. So that leaves either insane or insincere.
@212
Actually, Olbermann’s and O’Reilly’s ratings are about on par with each other now. O’Reilly has been dropping and Olbermann is almost about to surpass him on a regular basis. I know you haven’t been told about it lately. O’Reilly likes to live in a fantasy world, so his handlers are just letting him think that he is still ahead of Olbermann.
@216
Actually Churchill had little patients for fools and less for those who misused the English language. It might break your heart, but Churchill was a strong proponent of socialized medicine, believed that it was an honor and duty to pay taxes based upon capability to do so, had no time to listen to people that avoided their civic duty during a time of war, and felt war profiteers (companies like Haliburton and Blackwater) should be shot on sight. Not a combination that speaks highly of there being much eye to eye with Bush whatsoever.
Goldy says:
punymouse @4,
I’m proud of what I write, unlike Stefan, who deletes and edits posts from his archive to cover his tracks.
08/26/2007 at 2:09 pm
David, you edited this post without notifying your readers. Not only did you edit a post, you implied in the above post that you don’t edit them. The shame!!!
@219…MC…
Where do you get your data???
Per Nielsen as reported at MediaBistro.com…
For Wednesday, October 10:
25-54 democraphic…O’Reilly: 579…MSNBC: 353
Total Viewers…O’Reilly: 2532…MSNBC: 898
Not even close!
The Piper
@219…MC…
As a follow-up…I subscribe to MediaBistro.com’s daily update, so I get new numbers nearly every day. You can to by going to the website and signing up.
The Piper
I say congrats to Al Gore.
BTW ASSIE Voice: Are you taking the Jane Hague signs down on Old Redmond Road so Richard Pope has a chance? I saw 11 Jane Hague signs on the ground.
@220…MC…
And during wartime, Churchill had no mercy or tolerance for anyone who undercut the nation’s efforts. Ditto FDR.
While it’s true Winston was British (albeit of an Amercian Mother, Jennie Jerome Churchill), here’s what he said about socialism…and other things:
“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.”
“Some see private enterprise as a predatory target to be shot, others as a cow to be milked, but few are those who see it as a sturdy horse pulling the wagon.”
“The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.”
“The whole history of the world is summed up in the fact that, when nations are strong, they are not always just, and when they wish to be just, they are no longer strong.”
To try and spin Churchill as an honorary netroot or HA precursor is genuinely laughable. Churchill was a small-d democrat, a believer in King and Country, and a huge fan of the private sector. Socialized medicine didn’t become a reality until after Churchill was voted out in 1945. Honestly, a reason he was voted out was because the Conservative Party of which he was the leader, was vehemently opposed to it.
Any other Churchill myths among you liberals that need to be dispelled?
The Piper
Watched by you, HA regs and few others…O’Reilly waxes Overthetopman by nearly three to one per Wednesday, 10/10 Nielsens reported at mediabistro.com.
Objects in Mirror are Closer than They Appear.
Have a good weekend all…
Actually, Olbermann’s and O’Reilly’s ratings are about on par with each other now. O’Reilly has been dropping and Olbermann is almost about to surpass him on a regular basis. I know you haven’t been told about it lately. O’Reilly likes to live in a fantasy world, so his handlers are just letting him think that he is still ahead of Olbermann.
Oh, alright. One more.
This is not precise enough. It is in the “demo” numbers that Olbermann is much closer to O’Really and has beaten him head-to-head on occasion. However, O’Really does still have a lead.
Those demo numbers are the most important; they set the ad rates, so the overall numbers aren’t very meaningful. But it is fair to note that O’Really has generally about 2.5-3.5 times the overall audience as KO. Of course, it’s also fair to note that KO’s numbers have been climbing fast, and O’Really’s have been falling until recently, when they’ve stablized, though he’s down huge from his peak. And O’Really’s audience is incredibly old.
Not bad for a guy who became Vice president with only 42% of the popular vote. Not. Anyone who holds the Nobel in high regard is a moonbat.
Liberalism will never do well on talk show format. It does however do well on a comedy format, for obvious reasons.
Idiot@212&227: What are you two smoking?
http://tvbythenumbers.com/2007.....e-ratings/
http://tvbythenumbers.com/2007.....continues/
Dismissed by Stupidity.
http://tvbythenumbers.com/2007.....gust-2007/
http://insidecable.blogsome.co.....#more-6946
Sorry. Wingnuts can’t have the last word here. You a bunch of evil-hearted pin-heads.
re 228: I don’t hold Milton Friedman’s Nobel in high regard. Quite the opposite.
In fact , Friedman spent the last six years of his life living in a sudsidized 1 BR APT. in Queens. On the dole. It was pathetic.
The August Numbers
http://www.mediabistro.com/tvn.....0.asp#more
“I’ve been sitting back watching this, and I think this Piper guy does a pretty damn good job of standing up to all your stupid insults. You morons need to quit talking to idiots just like yourselves and get a life! And I’m a lifelong Democrat!”
DL @ 94:
I thought I made that clear.
Roger @ 126:
Chile only claimed Easter Is. because no one else really wanted it. Bad juju an’ all that…..
@225 Try reading his autobiography. I can’t remember exactly, but the number of volumes I believe is 11, with about 1000 pages each volume.
@237…MC…
Something in the neighborhood of eight-volumes with 15-companion volumes assembled under the leadership of his son, Randolph. I believe some of the principle volumes weren’t authored by Churchill himself, hence the title the Official Churchill Biography.
His prose is hard for the modern reader to grasp, so it’s not an easy job to wade through anything he wrote.
He, too, was a Nobel laureate winning the Literature Prize for his History of the English Speaking Peoples.
Greatest human being of the 20th-Century bar none and hands down.
The Piper
Piper, you said this: “Sorry…but the overwhelming majority of WW II historians hold that Hitler could have been destroyed in the aftermath of facing him down in the Rhineland.”
M’lad, how is it that the “overwhelming majority of WW II historians” have authority concerning an event subject to argument, like history, but the overwhelming majority of scientists who agree on the issue of global warming, who presumably are empirical, have no such authority? I await, my breath bated, for your answer.
Terrorist @ 230,
Use your web scraping skills to answer the following questions:
A) What percentage of O’Reilly viewers still believe Saddam Hussein had something to do with 9/11?
B) What percentage of Countdown viewers still believe Saddam Hussein had something to do with 9/11?
I’m willing to bet that the answer to A is much higher than the answer to B. How ’bout you?
Piper, for someone of such obviously agile wit (and I have to admit this thread has actually been rather fun) I’m rather appalled that you just don’t get it:
Any comparison between the run-up to WWII and our present time has nothing to do with Saddam, or even Osama, and it certainly has nothing to do with global warming.
Right now, the rest of the world is debating how long to appease the United States.
Piper @ 42:
Hey! I’m all in favor of clean air, water, etc.,…
Good. We agree here.
… The smell was worse than rotten eggs and rotten tuna mixed together.
Ah, the memories of our resource-based past. If you’re ever nostalgic, you can roll down the windows and drive through Delta, BC. I don’t think they ever really cleaned up their mills.
Are there real and serious environmental issues? Absolutely!!! Should necessary steps be taken to clean stuff up? Absolutely!!! Are all the problems man made? Absolu…Wait a minute…are they??? Or are there larger factors at work in some cases…factors that are not, as yet, understood?
STOP! This is where you are trying to find a loophole.
Since the model is phrased only in terms of degrees of certainty, and not in engraved in stone truth (and if you read the source data, and not what talking heads on the TV say, it is all in terms of degrees of certainty. There is not a single IT IS ESTABLISHED BEYOND ALL DOUBT THAT… in the IPCC), you are saying “Well, since it’s not 100% certain, we don’t have to do anything, and besides, all the greens want is to deny people their economic freedom.”
I’m not going to argue the IPCC with you. You haven’t read it, and other people have beaten that to death.
By phrasing this debate as an issue of personal freedom, you have created a false argument. First, we have already established (in this country) some limits on people’s freedom to crud up the environment. The fact that you can breathe the air, go for a dip in Lake Washington, and drink the water is testament to that. Taking those facts for granted is a fallacy of the highest order. No, it did not ” just happen” by luck or the provenance of God.
There is a reasonably high probability that throwing carbon dioxide into the atmosphere is having undesirable effects. In the same sense as we want to run the economy with as little particulate or pollution as reasonably possible, we should target to run it with as little CO2 as possible. The next step is a boring economics discussion as to how much growth we are willing to give up in order to accomplish this. Zero growth (or contraction) is a non-starter. Business needs to stay running, and people need to make money.
What I am seeing in your argument though is an equally absolutist view in the other direction, that absent 100% proof, any further constraints are just efforts by the enemies of capitalism to throw wrenches in the works. That is simplistic and more importantly wrong.
footnote: Are some people who identify as green resolute Luddites and anti-capitalists? Yes. Of course. The grownups however, are not. Some conservatives are Young Earth Creationists and other similar brands of complete fruitcakes. Defining a movement by its extremists is another form of false argument.
Go Green or Go Home
Local, city, county, state and the federal governments should be first to “go green.” Politicians should not be elected to public office unless they agree to convert every government building and vehicle to renewable energy. There are at least three reasons why this should be so.
When all levels of government are taken into account, they control 40% of the economy. With that kind of economic incentive anyone who wants to sell to the government will hasten to meet the demands of its largest single buyer. Government will no longer have to pass laws to enforce cafe standards for instance. Rather the Government will simply tell auto companies, we want to replace our fleet of vehicles but will not buy anything that does get at least 50 mpg if it is gasoline based, or it must be a hybrid, or it must be fueled with renewable fuels.
Another reason Government should go green first is national security. Part of every oil dollar paid for Middle Eastern oil goes directly into the pocket of terrorists. If we convert to renewable fuels that we control, we defund terrorism and protect ourselves simultaneously.
Yet another reason to heed Al Gore’s clarion call on global warming is economic security. OPEC can not ruin our economy if we convert to renewable fuels that we control.
And finally, suppose Gore is right? When anyone hypes anything as much as AL Gore hypes global warming, I have my doubts. But I can’t see what is harmed by going green so why not? The military is doing some research on alternative and renewable energy. Whoever is the next president of the United States should institute a “Go Green or Go Home” policy for the military. Those who come up with energy saving devices or methods as well as those who implement alternative or renewable fuels should rise quickly through the ranks. Those who don’t should be encouraged to seek employment elsewhere. As resourceful as marines are, for instance, I would bet they could make surprising advances in fueling everything from jeeps to an entire base through alternative means if left to their own devices. The military has through it’s contractors developed the most effective weapons in the world. If this same level of effort is turned toward greening the military we will be a safer, more secure, and more independent nation. We will create new jobs and industries and the air and water will get cleaner as a benefit.
Moe-Don the Moe-ron@240:
Since you like to “dwell” in the past, I’ll wait for your answer.
While searching: How many of KO viewers believe 9/11 is an inside job?
Remember ‘ASSers I believe in Global Warming cuz it’s predicted as one of the last plagues in the Bible. Now that Al Gore won the Peace Prize, how much will this “Peace” cost us?
I’ve seen estimates of $20-25 MMMM (Trillion for Moe-Don the Moe-ron) is we do nothing. If we do something the environmental costs will still be $10-15 MMMM and the implementation costs $25-35 MMMM.
So the damage is reduced but someone will be TAXED into oblivion.
So if by all claims above on this blog global warming will be a future catastrophic event with wars and famine and conflicts, where will the “third world” and “developing” nations get their big bucks to clean up their environmental polluters? The Industrial Nations? China is already reaping their “developing” nation status with Hong Kong and other city pollution. Yet they are not held “responsible” for their polluting ways. Same with India. If the other third world developing nations can’t feed themselves within their budgetary means, where will they get the financial acumen (Capital for Moe-Don the Moe-ron) to clean their part of the global environment?
Now that’s “Peace” economics at it’s best.
Aren’t an overwhelming majority of the green progressives who want the environment cleaned up the same new progressives who spout anti-capitalist slogans? Soooooooooooooo, I guess these peeps will be the ones footing the environmental clean-up bill since capitalism is eeeeeeeevil?
Piper, I identified Perfesser Darryl and the old dj who posted here yesteryear. Same writing style, same use of curse words in just about every post. They can change their name but their liberalism mental illness remains.
Perfesser Darryl, Useful Village Idiot blogged: “The fact is, millions of people have died of starvation. Hundreds of millions of people today live with hunger.”
Not doubting this a bit. I am questioning your premise. If you look at starving peeps, many of them are due to totalitarian regimes who spend their capital on other activities instead of feeding their masses. Also for those countries who don’t spend unwisely, they don’t teach their people useful farming methods or smaller family sizes either.
There are a myriad of reasons why people starve besides the simpleton argument you put forth.
Piper: Trying to argue with the erstwhile learned perfesser darryl is difficult. Remember Darfur is something that happened a little while ago and he’s forgot so that’s why when you blogged: “Try getting food to certain parts of sub-Saharan Africa and you’ll get butchered for your trouble by whichever faction opposes the faction you’re trying to feed.”
He responded on cue: “What the fuck? Piper Scott…you’re fucking retarded!”
For that pea-brained cranial orifice perfesser darryl: Google “aid workers killed in Sudan”.
These facts are so easy to remember perfesser darryl. Once again Puddy at your service.
@225
Regarding Churchill, you are (not surprisingly) incorrect. Churchill also said this:
“The discoveries of healing science must be the inheritance of all […] Disease must be attacked whether it occurs in the poorest or the richest man or woman, simply on the ground that it is the enemy […] Our policy is to create a national health service in order to secure that everybody in the country, irrespective of means, age, sex, or occupation, shall have equal opportunities to benefit from the best and most up-to-date medical and allied services available”
And during wartime, Churchill had no mercy or tolerance for anyone who undercut the nation’s efforts.
Exactly, and right now, Bush is undercutting our nation’s efforts in dangerous parts of the world (and Britain’s especially). That’s why those of us here rightly believe that Churchill would have a highly negative opinion of him.
By the way, a Piper Scott highlight reel is in the works at Effin Unsound. I’m going through a lot of Piper’s old comments and trying to pick out the stupidest comments. Any suggestion via e-mail would be much appreciated.
Terrorist @ 245,
Since you like to “dwell” in the past, I’ll wait for your answer.
As usual, you miss the point…
While searching: How many of KO viewers believe 9/11 is an inside job?
You commit the classic rhetorical wimp-out: answer the original question with another question.
But, why only ask that question about Countdown viewers? While you and other wingnuts go on and on about ratings, you never think to ask which audience is better informed.
Some useful data:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBI.....index.html
Doesn’t include Countdown, but, given the similarities in formats, the overlap between Stewart’s audience and Olbermann’s audience is likely to be a very high percentage.
Better yet:
http://www.pipa.org/OnlineRepo.....Report.pdf (PDF)
The money line:
Fox Noise viewers are “three times more likely than the next nearest network to hold all three misperceptions.”
Moe-Don the Moe-ron: I answered your question: “I’ll wait for your answer.”
If these words confuse you…
So I asked a question in return and … I wimped out? Amazing the clarity of your mind!
BTW I took the quiz. I only missed the Kerry tax one. I guessed too low.
Puddybud @ 250,
‘Trying to argue with the erstwhile learned perfesser darryl is difficult. Remember Darfur is something that happened a little while ago and he’s forgot so that’s why when you blogged: “Try getting food to certain parts of sub-Saharan Africa and you’ll get butchered for your trouble by whichever faction opposes the faction you’re trying to feed.”
Once again Puddy at your service.’
Um…Puddydope, Darfur is not in sub-Saharan Africa.
Piper Scott’s characterization of sub-Saharan Africa as a place where “try getting food to certain parts of sub-Saharan Africa and you’ll get butchered…” comes off as old-school racist stereotypes of spears & arrows and cannibalism.
Hey Pud,
As long as you’re here, I have a weird problem on my network.
One of my machines is spitting out UDP packets to port 123 on address 224.0.0.1. I think something’s trying to phone home out to the Internet, but it doesn’t show up on my firewall.
Is this some uber-weird stealth packet? Any ideas?
Terrorist @ 253,
You “answer” my question by not actually giving an answer, and then wonder whether or not I’m confused.
By the way, this “Moe-ron” went 6 for 6 on the CNN quiz. Sen. Kerry’s income level cut-off had potential to affect me personally, which made it very easy for me to remember.
JSA,
224.0.0.1 is a multicast IP address, and UDP port 123 is the network time protocol. Have you set the machine up as a network time server?
Some insights into why this is one of the longest threads on HS:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/055871.php
Al Gore is the Anti-Bush.
Sorry, “on HS” should be “on HA”
JSA, I will gladly answer your question.
Doe Joe is correct. Using the spec RFC 4330 from http://www.ietf.org this is the format for NTP to use multicast broadcasting. Servers usually unicast, multicast, or broadcast.
From the spec: “There are several scenarios that provide automatic server discovery and selection for SNTP clients with no pre-specified server configuration. For instance, a role server with CNAME such as pool.ntp.org returns a randomized list of volunteer secondary server addresses, and the client can select one or more as candidates. For an IP subnet or LAN segment including an NTP or SNTP server, SNTP
clients can be configured as broadcast clients. The same approach can be used with multicast servers and clients. In both cases, provision of an access control list is a good way to ensure that only trusted sources can be used to set the system clock.”
You have a potential server broadcasting NTP. Did you accidentally set this server to be a Network Time Processor (sync) other servers and clients with a network time? Did you configure this server to receive UTC and then NTP it out?
Glad to assist you JSA. But me a Venti Strawberry Frap sometime.
Peace. Puddybud
Don Joe: Freud would be proud of #258. HS it is!
HS for “Holy Shit!” no doubt.
Dense Idiot Perfesser Darryl:
Please do not talk about subjects you don’t comprehend. Africa, my ancestors home and native land:
http://exploringafrica.matrix......aharan.jpg
Fair use and attribution to the authors above:
“In the post-colonial era, many international organizations, foreign governments and textbooks divided Africa into two major regions: North Africa (“Arab Africa”) and Sub-Saharan Africa (“Black Africa”).
The reasons for this division of Africa into two regions were political and cultural. Many outsiders perceived Sub-Saharan Africa as being socially and culturally very different from North Africa. According to this classification, Sub-Saharan Africa is comprised of traditional African cultures and societies and by the “black race.” North Africa, on the other hand, it was argued, is dominated by the Arab culture, language, and “non-black” peoples, who “racially,” culturally and socially are not African, having their roots in western Asia (Middle East).”
You know, white man’s politics explains everything!
Amazingly Dense Perfesser Darryl, USAID also calls Sudan and Darfur Sub-Saharan Africa.
http://www.usaid.gov/locations.....index.html
Don Joe: No, the first word is Horse the second word is that which is found before the closing quote in post #262
And Perfesser Dense Darryl: Piper was referring to the Muslim – Christian conflict which has reared it’s ugly head in that area.
You have no sense of humor.
Perfesser Dense Darryl: Do you give to USAID? Oops… stupid question. Moonbat!s don’t give to charities. I posted this before so truth us always useful.
http://www.townhall.com/column.....to_charity
Maybe you should give to USAID. Then you’d understand the African cultural and political terminology.
Don Joe: I beg to differ.
Moonbat!s don’t give to charities.
Then I must not be a moonbat.
I go back to this site every so often to level set the argument. Some of his stuff has a level of skepticism, but he does make sense.
http://www.climate-skeptic.com.....index.html
Show of fingers, how many on the left here on HA(S) ever went to this site?
Can a Moonbat! be honest?
Don Joe: There are exceptions. So you are a liberal!
Did you give aid and comfort to Katrina victims?
This site is a hoot for global temperature measurements.
http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyo.....ionin.html
Don Joe: I will be offline for the next 6 hours so ta da!
Terrorist @ 272,
As a matter of fact, yes. Do you know how Sara Ford is?
@ 273
I’ve been to that site, but I’ve found it wanting more often than not. The one I subscribe to in NewNewsWire is http://www.realclimate.org. They’ve made no bones about the limitations inherent in the science, but they also uphold the very important distinction between peer-reviewed studies and the non-reviewed opinions of individual scientists.
As an example both of why realclimate.org is such a great site on the subject and of the important distinction between peer-reviewed science and what people with agendas do, take a look at:
http://www.realclimate.org/ind.....nsitivity/
[Emphasis in the original.]
People who have a particular agenda will sieze upon a single piece of scientific work, and say “Aha!” Something you find quite often on sites like climage-skeptic.com. But the point of any particular work is to assess the viability of a particular model, and a large part of the scientific process is to compare the results of one study with the results of other studies that attempt to address the same question. It might well turn out, as in the case of the study mentioned above, that the proposed model ends up not being all that valuable vis-a-vis other models, but the skeptics never seem to mention this.
@254…Darryl…
That is really one of the stupidist statements you’ve made…and given your status as the king of stupid statements that says something.
If you pay attention at all to what’s happening in places like Somalia, you wouldn’t make such knee-jerk statements.
Read http://www.usatoday.com/news/w.....food_N.htm and see what I mean.
The Piper
“That is really one of the stupidist statements you’ve made…”
Ummmm…I’m going to have to counteroffer that award to you for the statement:
Your statement comes off as a bigoted stereotype. Even if there are conflict hot-spots in parts of sub-Saharan Africa (like Rwanda around 1994) were aid workers are at increased risk of injury or death, those areas are exceptions, with conflicts geographically contained and temporally limited, and not representative of the rest of the region. Your use of the word “butchered” seemed in poor taste (and, no, that is not a pun.)
Thanks Pud,
It was indeed an NTP server.
I would be pleased as punch have a reason to buy you a strawberry frap!
(The real answer was a meta-answer. Pud gave an A+ explanation of the assignment of port 123 on a multicast address which is what I would expect of a black-letter network engineer. While I am still not sure about Pud’s politics, and probably never will be, it tells me with a high degree of certainty that he is what he says he is outside of HA. That is worth at least one strawberry frap to me).
Our other purported engineer gave a C- answer when asked about Chi-squares. To him I assign a much lower degree of probability.
Actually, I’d give him an A-. He did correctly mention that 224.0.0.1 is a multicast IP address, but his diagnosis at the end said that you have a server “broadcasting” NTP.
And I don’t even do network administration for a living, so don’t go testing me on software design principles. If you do, I might just have to go into a long-winded explanation of the benefits and drawbacks of C++ function objects.
So, why don’t we just call it a day, and you send me a mocha frap :-).
JSA: You are a funny guy. Glad I could be of help to you.
Don Joe: JSA wrote in 279 it was an NTP Server.
Congrats Al! We’re all watching you!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....lle%2Ehtml
@ 283
No comment on your choice of a strawberry frap vs my choice of a mocha frap? And you claim to have a sense of humor.
Seriously, I was interested in your comments on realclimate.org.
Don @ 281:
I’m actually back in Seattle now. Show up at DL and I’ll buy you something worthwhile.
JSA: You attend Drunken Liberals?
Don Joe: Sorry man, I have no joke to make regarding people’s personal beverage choices.
Regale me with a joke.
GS: Thanks for the Gorean YouTube!
a Piper Scott highlight reel is in the works at Effin Unsound.
Woohoo! Go Lee!