As Californians get to know Arnold Schwarzenegger a little better as a bad governor, instead of just another bad actor, his poll numbers continue to slide.
According to the Field Poll released Tuesday, 37 percent of registered California voters approve of Schwarzenegger’s job performance, a drop of 18 percentage points since February.
Continuing a trend that began in January, 53 percent of registered California voters said they do not approve of Schwarzenegger’s performance. That’s a jump of 18 percentage points since February.
The biggest decline came among Democrats and nonpartisan voters, but the poll also found Schwarzenegger’s support among Republican voters has fallen.
To all those California voters disappointed with “The Governator’s” job performance, I’d just like to politely point out that he’s Arnold Schwarzenegger, for Christ’s sake! What the fuck did you expect?!
Looks like the Gropinator wasn’t all the right wing freaks hoped for? But then again, I wouldn’t mind more republicans like him – pro school – pro choice – pro environment.
Approaching Gregoire territory
http://www.surveyusa.com/clien.....38;q=16768
I, too , like Arnold, but not as a politician. I’d rather see him go on a fitness binge and write another book about how aging baby boomers can maximise their strength and fitness. I’d be a loyal fan of that effort.
I like My 2 cents poll better……
Good to see someone has their eye on what’s going on in Washington.
To all those California voters disappointed with “The Governator’s” job performance, I’d just like to politely point out that he’s Arnold Schwarzenegger, for Christ’s sake! What the fuck did you expect?!
Is it time to break out the “Total Recall” jokes?
I wonder if there is some Republican troll’s handbook out there that includes instructions on how to try and change teh topic when someone brings up a point you can’t refute?
re 6:Say, LEFTIST PINHEAD????????
Ahnold is approachig the dreaded GREGOIRE ZONE!!!
The only difference is Ahnold is a Republican in a Democratic State whereas Greoirwitch is a Democrat in a Democratic state so I say ADVANTAGE AHNOLD!!!
Nindid @ 6
Many of us on the left have finally had enough of the personal attacks, lies, innuendos, unfounded accusations from conservatives. We are finally pushing back because we are sick and tired of listening to the dribble that flows incessantly form the mouths of conservatives. Our pushing back is new ground for necons so their knee-jerk reaction is to dust off the ol’ playbook, turn to the first page, and there it is in all of it’s glory: Play #1 of conservatism. “When cornered with the truth or when you need to reframe the debate because you’re losing, you must resort to name calling, slander or anything else that will put your opponent of the defensive.”
This playbook has been the Holy Bible of conservatism since the death of the Rockefeller Republicans in the mid-60’s. It’s been made most famous by Regan and Limbaugh. I know, I grew up in Sacramento and I listened to Rush before it was well known that he was a drug trafficker of the felonious variety. Here’s a piece of trivia for you; when he needs to explain the obvious and refers to it as “for you folks in Rio Linda,” well, let’s just say you can color Rio Linda red. Bright, bright red.
Re 6
I appologize for providing a link (at 2 above) to place this in context with other governor approval ratings. Yes diverting attention back home where it belongs is one of the first tricks in the handbook. If you’d like a copy just come to one of our weekly right wing conspiracy meetings. Check here for further information.
http://www.local6.com/news/4635633/detail.html
A race to the bottom for Bush and Arnold.
Who will be expelled first? Keep tuning in!
Thanks GBS.
Dear Trolls-
This site IS NOT uSP2. None of us give a rats ass about your stupid opinions. It’s great that you’re here for target practice…but take your knee-jerk conservative crap back to your vulture-scout jamboree.
If I want your opinion…I’ll look in the toilet. Now scram!
Republicant Bob Taft sure is unpopular in Ohio! I wonder if people are a little fed up of having their votes not counted?
http://tinyurl.com/87fxm
Bush’s approval ratings are going in the toilet, that’s just a fact.
I’m wondering what the line is in Vegas as to when Bush will elevate the “Terror Threat” level to orange?
I’m looking at the odds and I thinking about placing money around April or May of 2006. But if he continues to lose on SS, the economy and Iraq, it may be sooner.
Rujax @12 I like your take on the trolls on this blog.
Arnold was and is a complete horses ass. He has no ideas and no interest in being a governor. He might be able to ride herd over his business empire like a swaggering action hero, but governance requires something more. Heart, desire, expertise interest, compassion, leadership. Arnold looks worse now that Jesse Ventura ever did.
Rossi was going to be a joke, too. Gregoire will serve two terms. She is an effective administrator with vast knowledge and experience in State Government. She has made mistakes and has learned from her mistakes. Sorry boys/ girls, CG will do an effective job and will be re-hired.
Donnageddon @13
Thanks for you link. I believe there is a trend developing on the political landscape of this country. And that is if there is an (R) after your name your approval ratings stink.
I wonder why Bush had all 55 senators over for lunch. I bet they got an earful from Karl.
Oh, you guys are funny. Gregoire for 2 terms. Ow that hurts.
You guys need to take up fishing or something. You’re all terribly mean.
HBS..we endured CArville and Begala, and yeah we got borked. We didn’t invent the nasty game, you all did.
And we didn’t steal ohio, you stole Washington
$0.02 @ 2: That poll was conducted May 6-8. It’s totally out of date, considering that the election contest was finally put to rest and her legitimacy as governor vindicated a month after that poll was taken.
It’s called the Jesse Ventura Effect, something that happens once the voters of a particular state realize what they have done to themselves.
righton at 17
Oh boy, righton. The nasty game started back in the mid 60’s. You need to understand under what pretenses the modern day conservative movement came to power. Google “Nixon’s Southern Strategy” and learn how your party was born on the value of racism. Might want to try “Nixon Positive Polarization” too.
Back then the Dem’s were trying to stop a war in SE Asia that killed and wounded way too many Americans, fight the war on poverty and bring civil rights to all people of this nation.
We’ve been going along “tolerating” the right, thinking “surely, they’ll stop this senseless tactic and come back to the mainstream America.” But, that didn’t happen and we find ourselves fending off the politics of personal destruction, deficit spending that will effect generation of Americans, and quite frankly inept thinking that is bringing the War on Terror to a crisis. If we withdraw from Iraq without total victory then we’ll be defeated like the Soviets in Afghanistan.
Quite frankly, one of the posters on another thread said it best: “I wish Bush as good of an exit strategy for Iraq as he did for Viet Nam.” That sums the inept level of thinking that comes form the right quite nicely.
amend my last comment @ 20
“I wish Bush HAD as good of an exit strategy for Iraq as he did for Viet Nam.”
Reagan opposed the Civil Rights Act of 1964, opposed the Voting Rights Act of 1965 (calling it “humiliating to the South”), and ran for governor of California in 1966 promising to wipe the Fair Housing Act off the books. “If an individual wants to discriminate against Negroes or others in selling or renting his house,” he said, “he has a right to do so.” After the Republican convention in 1980, Reagan travelled to the county fair in Neshoba, Mississippi, where, in 1964, three Freedom Riders had been slain by the Ku Klux Klan. Before an all-white crowd of tens of thousands, Reagan declared: “I believe in states’ rights”.
This is why the majority of minorities vote Dem. Not that we’re perfect, because we are not, but many know who the real defenders of freedom are and it’s not the likes of modern day republicans.
gbs
a) i’m not going to defend bush in iraq; i voted kerry out of protest
b) ha, you guys certainly did (ps, you are nicely using all the dem talking points (giveaway is “the politics of personal destruction)(you guys are all cyborgs). Remember thread on the Goldwater/LBJ girl with the flower petal?
c) bork (and metzenbaum, biden, harkin and other mean and nasty guys on the judiciary back then).
d) carville, hillary, all the dems in the clinton admin
e) Harsh left wing editorial press in this country.
Your guys were and still are plain old nasty.
Defenders of freedom, oh man that’s a good one. Same guys who take our land and guns? You guys can claim “advocate for the poor and immigrants” but hardly ‘defenders of freedom’.
WOW righton. I have MUCH respect for you. A protest vote no less.
I picked up the term “politics of personal destruction” from KVI. Specifically John’s show.
OK one challenge. Specifically, who took or is taking your guns?
GBS@9–
Are you truly a Girlie-Man….or do you just unmistakably resemble one? What a whiney piece of trash you are!
rujax@15-
BAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
Effective administrator????
Is your definition of that building a massively ineffective, obstructionist Dept of Ecology???
She will serve 2 terms???
She might not even survive 1!!
Anyone who disagrees with your point of view is a troll???
LOSER!
David @ 18—
Do you actually believe Gregoire’s Poll numbers are BETTER since the May 6-8 Poll??? Do you actually believe the I-912 response has helped Gregwitches popularity??? You’ve got to be shittin’ me! David….your gal is in huge trouble. This Legistlative session was a disaster. Earth to David!!!! HELLOOOOOOOOO!
MR. C.
Refer to my post @ 9
I win.
Mr. C. way to run Play #1. You executed it flawlessly. Now bring some substance to the conversation.
Comment on 13
Holy shit! How did Governor Taft (R-Ohio) manage to get a 74% disapproval rating? Did he marry Osama’s sister? Raise taxes? Steal a presidential election? Torture a dog? What? what? I want to know!!!
Roger Rabit good to see you here. OK, now make me laugh out loud, please.
WrongAgain @ 23 “e) Harsh left wing editorial press in this country”
Damn, Worngo! Were you in a coma all during the Clinton Admin? The Corparate Press hounded that man every day following one right wing conspiracy to the next NEVER looking for accuracy or the truth.
No matter how many times a right wing nut talks about the “left wing liberal press” I never lose the awe of hearing a person have the stupidity to express such obvious BULLSHIT!
Comment on 15
How dare you compare Ahnold to a horse’s ass! What an insult to the horse.
@ 31 Thanks, I laughed.
Reply to 16
“I wonder why Bush had all 55 senators over for lunch. I bet they got an earful from Karl.”
It was a pep talk. A fly on the ceiling who happens to be a friend of mind told me it went like this:
“Yeah, the country’s going to hell in a handbasket and our polls stink, but quit worrying about getting re-elected. We rigged the voting machines.”
Mr Cyn-Irr @ 25 “Do you actually believe Gregoire’s Poll numbers are BETTER since the May 6-8 Poll??? Do you actually believe the I-912 response has helped Gregwitches popularity??? You’ve got to be shittin’ me! David….your gal is in huge trouble. This Legistlative session was a disaster. ”
WOW that sounds almost like Mr. C-I’s statements about how deluded we all were for thinking Rossi would lose his case.
Mr. C-I, you are no longer just Irrelevent, you are completely obsolete.
Kudos to your friend for the intel, RR. If it wasn’t so ture it would be hilarious.
gbs, gotta get to the game, you know sing the national anthem…i’ll wax on this manana
Gun thing was sort of red herring to stir you all up. I’m near neutral on it, except as example of pretty clear defined right that every couple of years a movement is afoot to register, ban etc weapons(had one here back in mid 90s). Don’t tar me on this cuz i actually read the bill of rights differently (actually as bork does) to talk about state militias, not me w/ an ak47 or grenade launcher (hypotheticals).
Lots of rights erosions, come on. couple years ago, tried to rent from someone else a nice house. Tried to run an ad in Times looking for such, and tried to describe what i wanted as expensive or executive (can’t recall exact words). Seattle times slammed my rquest….it implied race and class (oh yeah i wanted to find “in nice neighborhood”. Come on, my rights to free assembly got trampled cuz of overreaching iditos confusing that with banning blacks from housing.
Lets see, I can’t without getting fired oppose diversity or gender stuff. I guess that’s ok, but I think its pushing on my rights (?)
I have to buckle up, i have to be part of the quasi socialized medical system (or go broke paying the cash rate)
Lemme dig up some good national review stuff for you boys
OK right on enjoy the game. I’ll look forward to national review stuff and your thoughts on the effect of the patriot act on our 4th amendment rights. No red herring there.
gathering keys, and such.
Honest question; i hear all the venting about the Patriot Act; i’m inclined (based on the whiny goldy type voices saying it) to support the act; lock em all up. But ignoring Randy Rhodes and her ilk who make me knee jerk go right, why is the patriot act bad? No Lucy responses please, i mean, what’s so bad about it? I’m not in jail, nobody i know is in jail, i still go to work and mariners games. So what if some bad guys and even an occasional good guy gets locked up
serious question, asked in a HA.org provocative manner
Evangelical pseudochristians get that way by being Born Again. KOMO TV’s commentator, Ken Schram, has a theory of how people become Republicans: They’re Born That Way.
Schram says:
According to a new study published in the American Political Science Review, being politically conservative is, in part, a matter or genetics.
“According to a new study published in the American Political Science Review, being politically conservative is, in part, a matter or genetics.
“I’ve long wondered how an otherwise seemingly rational person could adhere so strictly to stilted ideologies; how they could be so consistently willing to smother a sense of social well-being. It’s merely a matter of having been dumped in the shallow end of the gene pool.”
For more laughs see Ken’s complete commentary at http://www.komotv.com/stories/37545.htm
Reply to 38
What I check out of the library is none of your fucking business.
But since your president wants to know, tell him I’m reading “Hopalong Cassidy.”
@ 38 in a nutshell, it destroys our most precious rights against government, and thus our liberty.
End game, Bin Laden wins.
Mr. Cynical @ 25
“She might not even survive 1!!”
Are you aware of something the State Patrol should know about? Do you wish to call them, or do you want me to do it?
RR @ 41
I don’t think your being honest. I just checked with Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, turns out you’ve been reading “The Pet Goat” for about 20 minutes.
44
It’s true that I checked out “The Pet Goat.” The pillowcase stuffed with straw is reading it, as the librarians will discover when they close the place tonight. I went out the back window with “Hopalong Cassidy.”
GBS @ 42 “End game, Bin Laden wins. ”
Thanks! I have never heard it put so succinctly.
Looks like the Governator outpaces gregoire in the polls!
http://www.strategicvision.biz.....l_0520.htm
Thanks for pointing it out Goldy.
“To all those California voters disappointed with “The Governator’s” job performance, I’d just like to politely point out that he’s Arnold Schwarzenegger, for Christ’s sake! What the fuck did you expect?!”
http://www.strategicvision.biz.....l_0520.htm
So Goldy what would you politely point out to dissapointed Washington voters?
Worngo @ 36 “example of pretty clear defined right that every couple of years a movement is afoot to register, ban etc weapons”
What part of “well regulated malitia” do you not understand?
Cyn@25
Thanks for proving my point, jackass.
RR in #39,
From the abstract, “The results indicate that genetics plays an important role in shaping political attitudes and ideologies but a more modest role in forming party identification; as such, they call for finer distinctions in theorizing about the sources of political attitudes (2005: 153).”
The damn issue has been sitting on my desk for a while now, and I haven’t read the article yet.
WorngAgain @ 38 “i mean, what’s so bad about it? I’m not in jail, nobody i know is in jail, i still go to work and mariners games. So what if some bad guys and even an occasional good guy gets locked up”
I guess the major problem is that Mr C, and Pudster are not the occasional “good guy” who gets locked up.
Of course that is just the tip of the (un)Patriot Act ice berg.
BTW, I am pretty slow, but “Ahnold’s flaccid Poll” is a pretty hilarious title Goldy!
Sure took me awhile…
You see, GBS and DamnageD, when you start being civil to these TROLLs they start threatening us like righton @ 36 with “dig up some good national review stuff”
Heaven help us.
51
Easy to explain. Parent with small brain = child with small brain.
55
Actually RR both my parents are Repubs. They are getting on in age, so we don’t talk politics. I’d hate for my last words to them to be “You fucking Neo-con Nazi SCUM! Shame on you for bridling your grandkids with debt you do not want to pay and a war for OIL!!!!”
So we talk about baseball. We can both cuss at the Mariners in familial agreement.
Awe, come-on Donna, I’m just being nice cause their asses still look raw from the beatin they got in Wenatchee.
It’s like scolding your kids. They get a whipping for getting outta line (lying and such), then afterwards ya let ’em calm down and make ’em feel better, tell ’em they’re okay, everybody makes mistakes…till they pull the same dumb shit again.
57
I know DamnageD, But National Review?
Damn.
What makes you righties think the neo-con fascists are happy about all those guns floating around out there? They’re the ones who are going to try to take them away from you.
And the record shows that snatching them from cold, dead hands doesn’t really bother them. They couldn’t give a rat’s ass about your right to bear arms. You are just another voting block to them. They tell you what you want to hear just like they do the religious right. The whole Schiavo thing was just a scam to make the religeous nuts think that something was being done for them when the neo-fascists had no real intention of giving them squat.
What makes you righties think the neo-con fascists are happy about all those guns floating around out there? They’re the ones who are going to try to take them away from you.
And the record shows that snatching them from cold, dead hands doesn’t really bother them.
Lucy– so are you saying that repubs snatch guns from the dead people while dems only snatch ballots. Wow that is deep.
Not as deep as Karl Rove’s Gannon-Guckert violated bum.
Drug addled Rush Limbaugh seems to think the Downing Street Minutes (memo) is a fake. Now you now the right wing spin machine is REALLY afraid. Time to put up the smoke screens! Where are the Downing Street Walkers For Truth! Gotta start throwing mud every direction! More Smoke!!! Dammnit MORE SMOKE!!!
Neo-cons… be afraid… be very afraid. Your house of evil is tumbling.
http://mediamatters.org/items/200506210007
Donna–62
You should have listened to your parents!
So much for Florida, Dems are broke, didn’t pay their taxes and the IRS is on their ass. Florida State Dems didn’t pay their payroll taxes which include SOCIAL SECURITY!!!
Mr Cyn-Irr, True story! My parents also believe in Bigfoot, Loch Ness Monster, Alien visitation, and leprechauns.
All that is easier to forgive than voting for MAssive Debt, Endless War and Fascism.
Donna–
Perhaps you are an Alien and you parents were trying to make you feel ok about it??? Perhaps those Alien visitors were really Grandma and Grandpa? Could you be from that planet in a faraway galaxy known as LEFTIST PINHEAD?? Perhaps all you jokers come from there.
You know Donna, there is one thing and one thing only that will end my crusade against you fucking LEFTIST PINHEADS and that is when I see your Mothership hovering over Planet Earth and I hear a hideous voice that sounds like Pee Wee Herman coming out of that Mothership uttering these words “OK all you LEFTIST PINHEADS, it’s time for me to BEAM YOU UP”!!!
Bush’s last weekends radio address “We went to War because we were attacked”
LOL he is still telling the SAME LIE!
ON TO THE HAGUE!!!
Mr Cyn-Irr “Perhaps you are an Alien”
STEP AWAY FROM THE KEYBOARD… WALK SLOWLY AWAY AND SHUT OFF YOUR COMPUTER.
Nothing to see folks, the mentally disturbed man is being taken to a nice place.
Donna–
Where is you sense of humor tonite??
By the way, those men in the little white coats were asking me for your address. They have a nice red sucker fer ya! I told them you don’t have an address, you are a Gregoire voter.
36
“every couple of years a movement is afoot to register, ban etc weapons(had one here back in mid 90s).”
Every “couple” years, huh? It’s been 10 years since the initiative in 1994 or thereabouts to register handguns (not “weapons” – it’s easy to tell you’re a Republican becaue you lie about every fucking little thing). As I recall the vote against it was something like 80% in a Democratic state. Guess what, most Democrats voted against it. Nobody has tried since.
So what’s your point, Rightwing Liar? That Democrats are out to get everybody’s guns? Typical “Righton” bullshit.
Mr Cynical: Take your meds. It’s you Reps who managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in the Governor’s race. That pathetic loser, Rossi, even took a nice relaxing Hawaian vacation in anticipation of his imagined busy years as WA’s governor. I felt a little sad for the schmo as he returned from his victory vacation only to find that he and all the rest of the WA Reps were still the silly sad-ass losers that they’ve been in this state for lo’ these countless generations. So go ahead, call me a leftist pinhead if you want to. It’s OK. I feel your pain.
71
What Lucy sans Head said!
Lucy @ 71–
OK, YOUR A LEFTIST PINHEAD! Thanks for the invitiation (as if I really needed it!)
Donna @ 72–
OK to you too…YOUR A LEFTIST PINHEAD! And thank you for the invitation!
The full poll results on Schwarzenegger are available here.
It looks like the gubernator is in the early stages of a long slide paralleling the one that Gray Davis had. If this keeps up, a disgruntled millionaire will have to fire Ahnold.
über alles California
Chuck @ 47, 48: My comment at 18 applies here too: the poll you’re citing is so out of date that it’s worthless. Show us some numbers from after the pathetic failure of Rossi’s election challenge.
David@76
No the burden is on you now, you show me where the numbers have changed.
David@76
Your poll numbers are standing at the entrance of virtually every store in the state right now with petitions!
Chuck–
David is obviously delusional….that’s what happens when you smoke 2 buck crack!
Anyone who feels Gregowitches popularity has grown with her ill-advised signing of the Gas Tax and the publics reaction is advised to contact a local mental health professional….immediately.
David….YOU ARE A LEFTIST PINHEAD to the Max.
Loyal…and stupid.
Perhaps Gregoire’s “get outa town quick” taxpayer paid European Family Vacation is something that will endure her to voters……NOT!
Perhaps her attempted attacks on small business groups will make her more lovable…NOT!
David seems a have an interesting vision of Gregoire’s popularity from his vantage point…which is obviously his colon!!
First off thanks Goldy for spelling Ahnold like I do. But you forgot one extra h. You know you HAs, if you thought about why Ahhnold has tanked just for a second or two; now please put on your thinking caps, yes doesn’t that feel better, now answer me this? Why is Ahhnold in trouble? Yes, you have to mind stutter to answer that question. Next to compare him to GWB or RL is very stupid, especially anything the brain-less one says. Ahhnold is what we used to call on the east coast an East Coast Republican.
You see only GBS has any credibility (spelling lesson donnageddon) as he lived in the Sacramento area, all the rest of you just spout speculating bullshit. Why is that? Does it make you feel good?
Now for my hypothesis: Ahhnold is striking out at every sacred cow the Democratic Unions hold dear to their hearts. They are using the left-leaning MSM to strike at Ahhnold. Plain and simple. You choke off the sacred cows, the left loses. He wants to transform the state systems. Democratic Unions are crying foul (fowl too) as they see their life blood dissipating.
Case in point on the left leaning media. GBS, you claim to know all things military so riddle me this: There is a captain who lost a foot in an Iraq land mine incident and upon rehabilitation went back to Iraq. He was interviewed on the Laura Ingraham show last Friday night. He said “I wish the MSM would visit the Iraqi countryside instead of writing their stories from Baghdad hotels or Kuwait. We are doing excellent work here but unless someone gets blown up you’ll never read my story or see the good the US is doing here. He named off many rebuilding projects not seen in any lefty newspaper. Why is that? BIAS!!! The same thing is happening to Ahhnold. Open your eyes HAs, put on the thinking cap.
Someone, maybe Roger Rabbit said about Puddy (nameless one, funny GBS) that if you say something over and over it becomes true to you. Well the unions are spouting off some whopper lies down here and the MSM is as complicit as ever. So again I ask you to remove the dunce caps regarding the California political situation and see it for what it is. The press writes negative articles about Ahhnold, not because the stuff is true, heck I dislike his stance on illegal immigration (spelling donnageddon), but he is right about union control in California. If the Californian population took a few minutes and thought about why they tossed out Grayout Davis, his poll numbers would be in the 60s again. Instead they absorb the MSM and accept the union bullshit!
GBS – I went to an Ivy League institution. I am a minority but I am a moderate Republican. Remember I told headless or brain-less that I can’t force my anti-abortion views on someone else. So do you hate me also?
PacMan – 25 Years and Still Going!
PacMan @ 80
At this moment in life I don’t hate you. But, beware, you never know when I’ll look at my WWJD bracelet.
Here’s the answer to your riddle:
First, the military isn’t too keen on letting civilian’s roam around the countryside where MAJOR COMBAT OPERATIONS are ongoing, despite what your mis-leader stated playing flyboy.
Second, more journalist have been killed in two years of the Iraq war than in the entire Viet Nam conflict. Apparently, journalist aren’t too keen on getting killed. The pace of the insurgency is remaining relatively constant. This reveals that the after combat operations were not well planned for by the civilian leadership at the Pentagon or White House.
Last, but not least. Most Americans, at least I would think most Americans, really care more about what’s happening to our troops than new chalkboards at some fucking Iraqi elementary school.
But that’s just my opinion.
Donnageddon @ 54
I cannot speak for DamnageD, but you’ll have to address your concerns with Roger Rabbit. I promised him I’d cut a certain necon poster that I’d cut him some slack. The poster in question is a non-entity to me now so I’ll only refer to, he who shall remain nameless, as just plain “nameless” from now on.
PacMan @ 80
Addendum to my post. I’m not 100% sure, but I’m fairly certain, that journalist can’t leave the Green Zone without military escort either.
Which, if true, wouldn’t that hinder reporting in the MSM what is really going on in the Iraq countryside?PacMan @ 80
PacMan @ 80
“Nameless” said he got an Ivy League education, too. But he really only got a freshmen year of schooling on the tax payer’s back because he suckled from the public teat and never repaid his debt through **snicker** **snicker** military service **HA HA HA HA** . Sorry Roger Rabbit I’ll say 10 Hail Mary’s.
And, I bet he never paid it back in cash either.
So, did you actually get the education or is there more to the story the meets the eye on these posts?
Donna @ 65
I don’t belive in leprechauns either, but I know they’re out there.
PacMan is who’s sockpuppet again? I lose track.
GBS @ 81
“This reveals that the after combat operations were not well planned for by the civilian leadership at the Pentagon or White House.”
What do you mean, there was no post-combat planning? I have it on good authority that the administration had planned one month of having soldiers march through the streets while grateful Iraqi citizens showered them with flowers.
Oh . . . wait . . . you said “well planned.”
Nevermind.
DJ @ 87
I’m learning so much about neocons on this blog. Everything that is fact is subjective and conjecture is concrete evidence.
Who knew?!?!
PacMan @ 80
When you say put on your “thinking caps”, is your preference Reynolds wrap, or do you prefer the store brand of aluminum foil?
GBS @ 9
Maybe it’s time the left starts using our own “playbook”, since it appears as if we’re losing control of our country. I hate to be pessimistic but…
“1)The American media have been lost to the Right.
2)The electoral system in the U.S. has quietly been privatized in recent years by the use of electronic voting machines, and the control of elections has thereby been placed in the hands of corporations with deep political and financial ties to the Republican Party.
3) The opposition is well-financed, well-versed in the politics of persuasion, and has a pathological interest in seeing liberal’ programs,ideology, and persons wiped off the face of the earth.
4) The strategy that seeks to refine the message and revitalize the liberalism of the past is nothing but a Ghost Dance. Traditional liberalism is dead. Simply put, the Republican noise machine has managed to demonize liberalism to an extent that it can no longer be resuscitated as a political concept.”
“Fighting back:The quiet plot to steal America, and what to do about it” Andrew M. Gracy, DemocraticUnderground,6-15-05)
Any ideas how to fight back? Maybe we should borrow some plays out of the other guys’ playbook?
m.cope
You really want the answer to fighting back? It’s not mimicking them.
The true answer is fully funding our educational programs so that things like music, art, and humanities are taught. Creative teaching has been lost to teaching “standards.”
What “standards” create are teaching environments that encourages the teaching and learning process to follow a systematical, repeatable, and predictable approach. Much like what happens when the fryer alarm goes off at McDonalds, the operator knows to remove the French fries from the hot oil.
It’s a well know fact that music stimulates both the mathematical and creative regions of the brain. Music allows the brain to operate on the third level where higher order thinking takes place.
Institutions of higher education fosters the critical, creative and philosophical thinking that leads to Liberalism and a better world. This is precisely the reason these institutions and education in general are under attack from the conservative elite.
If they win the war on brains, then they will retain power for a very, very long time. Long beyond our lifetimes.
It’s also another well known fact that the higher the education a person has the more likely they are to adopt Liberal ideas. Not because they’re LEFTIST PINHEADS as some would try to blather on these posts but rather they have a higher order of thinking on critical issues.
I only have a little time so I have to answer many “questions” relating to me. Donnageddon talks about fellatio, so he/she must be an expert. Headless – what do you say? At least dj, damnaged and david carry on a conversation, sometimes funny something ascerbic, but I can have the dialog with them. GBS is now accusing me of things he is so clueless on. So here goes.
Why do you all classify me as a neo-con, a new conservative? I ask some probing questions and immediately I get slammed by lefty hemmorhoids? What have I expressed in my thoughts to be given that neo-con moniker? I thought a neo-con was one who from a conservative viewpoint who supported the Israelis? So if that’s the definition, I am a bad person to support the Israelis. So David and dj, you want me to support the Arabs & Palestinians, if that’s what a neo-con is? Why is it if anyone slightly disagrees with liberal thought or liberal speak, you immediately are designated neo-con status. At least Roger Rabbit will have a dialog with someone on this blog, sometimes david and dj, but the rest of you are such thoughtless authoritarians that your mindset really scares me.
I have agreed with you on some issues and disagree with you on other ones. Me agreeing with lucy, now thats a scary thought! So if I disagree with you I am a neo-con. If I agree with you what am I? These stupid liberal naming conventions that your side implements “tout le temps” (all the time) doesn’t wash when a person has moderate positions.
Now to answer some of GBS’s inane commentary and questions. I will answer your questions front and center. I was accepted at four top notch universities. I could have come out west to Stanford, you know the couple who was rejected by the Harvard president in the late 1800s as being country hicks. I have a four year undergraduate degree engineering from Cornell University. Graduated on time, not like some pot smoking liberal hippies on campus. I held a thirty hour-a-week on campus job to pay for school necessities and still graduated with a decent cumulative average. I worked for a while and did the night school masters at RIT. Unlike many liberals who defaulted on their school loans, my wife and I paid back all $17,800 in bank school loans.
So I ask of you lefties, lets be more open and honest here. Since I fessed up about some of my background, how about your school name, degree and other stuff. Let’s put our intellectual aspects on the line. I like a debate as long as it’s a debate. As you see GBS, no BS from the PacMan. Did you attend college after your service GBS? Did I go into the military? No I didn’t. Congratulations to everyone on their service. I appreciate that you put your life into Uncle Sam’s hands for what ever time you did. I salute you and would never spit upon you like the lefties love to do. So I ask you GBS; how can you support liberal positions and people where the way out kook fringe of your party (headless lucy) would spit upon you and call you vile names upon your return from overseas service? Have you seen me in the “neocon cabal zone” as you all like to spout off here? NO!
I do support the military and I don’t use for political gain Abu Ghraib or Gitmo because some hate filled soldier breaks the rules. Why are those guys there? Are they the friendly chaps who would walk up to you and say good morning? No they are not, but your side says we need to treat them using Geneva conventions. So I ask you about these detainees: What country’s army did they conscript into? What was their army uniform? Where and in what country did they get their military training from? If you can answer these questions without changing the subject we can dialog. Otherwise, go back and put on the thinking cap because the dunce cap exhibited so far is making you write untenable positions. This is where you HorsesAss lefties and I separate in thought. I don’t blame the high level superiors. If I ascribed to your thought processes I would blame Harry Reid for every stupid thing Dick Durbin, Hilary Clinton or Ted Kennedy says.
Last but not least GBS you didn’t read nameless’ story too correctly. I reviewed that Schaivo post yesterday, then my PC died and I had to resurrect it. Roger Rabbit delivers very lucid points GBS, where I see in your writing vitriolic hatred. GBS, you said you are a minority. Prove it to me! You sound to me like what Martin Luther King said to look out for, “Beware of the white moderate”, most HA lefties here. What programs espoused by the Democrats will end inner-city poverty? What programs espoused by liberals will deliver a job to the unemployed? You all had the congress from 1954 to 1994 and did those “policies” stop those problems? Please name them.
During your childhood in Sacramento GBS, did they treat you bad or were your military superior officers mean and racist? I know I am a minority. I see it in my hair type and skin color every day. I thank God every day for his blessing. Do you? If you did the words from your mind to keyboard would be expressed differently. I wrote off donnageddon when she/he said they were an athiest. Well so much for balanced thought processes. I think independently. I don’t need Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton to tell me what to think. I agree with certain left position and disagree with others. What is your problem man?
Roger Rabbit – Follow an ugly kid home and see if someone ugly opens up the door – Red Foxx “You Got to Wash Your Ass Comedy Album 1972”. Follow a simple minded liberal home and see a unkempt home environment (deficient in order or neatness), taught by people like headless lucy!
I owe, I owe so back to work I go!
PacMan – 25 Years and still ticking!
My GBS answer post should occur around 92. I suppose I said something Goldy’s system is checking upon.
PacMan
@ 92
Goldy, is there any way to expedite PM’s comments?
GBS – Do you know the term propellerhead? That’s one thinking cap, another is anything that removes the dunce cap from a lefty’s head. Regarding aluminum foil, I thought that was a lefty specialty, you know, talking to the rocks – channeling, talking to the dead relatives – spiritualism, communing – getting in tune with nature, etc. I like Reynolds to cook in though.
So GBS what level of education do you possess? I take it you must be a PhD because you surely pile it own, higher and with distinction! I guess my masters degree has held me back from reaching the unreachable star, liberalism!!! NOT!
GBS said – “Institutions of higher education fosters the critical, creative and philosophical thinking that leads to Liberalism and a better world.” That sir is funny. No, it’s conformance. If you don’t conform, the professor (Ward Churchill lifelikes) will fail you. Many anecdotal stories of Berkeley and Stanford students who disagree with philosophy professors get low grades on term papers. If they scored bad on the English SAT, how could they receive their acceptance letter sfrom these fine institutions? Why do professors give low grades? Because they can.
PacMan – 25 Years and Still Going
GBS @ 91
I agree that education is important, although I do not have the same deterministic view as you, ie. education (development of critical thinking) = liberalism).
I was thinking more in the short term. Perhaps attempt to pit the Religious Right against corporate America in some way, for instance. Surely, these two powerful political entities do not share common interests. Is corporate greed compatible with family values?
Cope @ 95
Logically, no corporate greed doesn’t go hand in hand with family values. They are successful at divorcing the two ideals within their base and unite them on issues involving God, guns, or gays.
That way the undereducated masses overlook the obvious. As is evident by the r/w posters in this blog.
m. copeulator@95–
You appear to be trying very hard to put yourself on a “plane” several notches about the ‘rank-and-file” American….a true “Visionary” of sorts. It must feel good to go to bed at night fantasizing that your pontificating here may have somehow made a difference in someone’s life—-NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you lived in the Northwest about 20 years ago or so, you would be familiar with the Bagwhan Sri Rajnesh and his band of disciples. The Bagwhan had a philosophy that if you gave him all your money it would free him to get on the higher plane of consciencious and do your thinking for you. Everything would be beautiful….it you trusted him. And you would be free of the bondage of earthly possessions. IT WAS A WIN-WIN, right???
I think that heretofore, I shall refer to you as the Cope-whan!
Keep “visioning” for us…or is it “fantacizing”…or is it “day-dreaming”…or is it just plain old jerking off (in your case)!
I’m also intrigued by your extreme paranoia Cope-whan. You see the Bagwhan was very paranoid too. But as you know Cope-whan, you aren’t paranoid WHEN THEY ARE REALLY OUT TO GET YA!!!!!
@ 96
Again I’m lifting this from a Gracey’s op ed piece (see 90) because I think it is of interest to this crowd.
“Without the ‘liberal threat’ to unite them, corporate America and the Religious Right are like oil and water: The moral interests of the Right are incompatible with the pathological pursuit of wealth and power that continues to drive corporate expansion. What we need is a carefully placed wedge to divide
the opposition, and that wedge comes in the form of a campaign to exploit the growing fear that corporate America is a threat to family values and the viability of our communities.”
Then the question is how to do this without resorting to the Right’s tactics? Or maybe we need to be less noble and rely on guerilla warfare.
Mr.C. @ 97
Glad to see you are paying attention. From what I can gather you are an idiot. But I could be wrong. I seem to recall you contributed some very interesting predictions and analysis concerning the election contest and yet you are still here.
Shame on you for two weeks.
Mr M. Cope: What unites the whacked out liberals (lucy) with the more broad minded ones like dj, jsa, roger rabbit and even david? The fear of religion. Now if our wonderful United States of America was founded on judeo-christian principles of people escaping the Church of England religious persecution; how come your friends, the ACLU, are trying to remove judeo-christian values from our every day life but have no problem promoting a muslim lifestyle? If the ACLU was balanced then they would have stopped the UCLA demostration led by muslims wearing those arm bands protesting nothing. There is a double standard in academia. Stop christianity at all costs promote alternative lifestyles.
PacMan — 25 years and still going!
PM @ 94
Since I’ve already proven in my beating of “nameless” that honesty is my strong suit, let me begin with the fact that I am not the smartest man in the world, not even in the top 10%. God, I certainly hope not, that’d be terrible. I’ve never attended even one day of college. When I left high school in ’79, I spent the next 10 years of my life working for Uncle Sam. By the time I left the federal government I had to find full-time employment – and fast. I suppose I could have gone back to night school for a degree, but alas, I didn’t. That is until recently. I’m committed to working toward a BA in business and I enrolled at a local CC.
I do have, however, an excellent memory. So I will tuck away in to my teeny, tiny, little brain that you have achieved a masters degree from a prestigious Ivy League school. That said, my expectationsof you, PacMan, is going to be of a much higher caliber than the other conservative posters on this blog.
And, I’ll agree with you, I can pile it on high. That kind of stuff doesn’t come from a well heeled, prestigious masters degree. That comes from education at a different kind school that you cannot find on any college campus. Wearing cardigans tied around your shoulders and drinking white wine with your pinkie extended and talking about the regatta won’t cut where I learned my best lessons in life. No sir. What I’m talking about means taking your shower after work, not before.
So, let’s examine what you really said:
First paragraph. Nothing of substance. Refer to my post @ 9.
Second, paragraph. Nothing of substance other than to let us know you got a masters degree. Again, post @ 9 for the balance.
Third paragraph. Conjecture, speculation and a hint of “someone is blaming others for their sub par work that led to a poor grade.”
OK, PacMan. From now on I expect a great deal more of substantive dialogue from you. Please don’t disappoint me. But most of all, please don’t disappoint yourself.
@ 100
I agree. Pacman is the greatest game ever. Really just the only game I was ever any good at.
Oh yeah, what the f&ck are you talking about?
Yoi
Goldy, what gives? I didn’t use any profanity in my post to PacMan. Or threaten him with bodily harm.
Mr Cope. Read man. You wrote about what unites liberals. I disagree with your premise. You guys are afraid of religion and religion only. You lump all of conservatives under one paintbrush. Your description of coporate america and morals is wrong. Look at some of the biggest corporations and you notice they are lead by liberals, and they operate the same way you complain about conservative led corporations.
What motivates the right is the ACLU, and wing-nut types like lucy and donnageddon. They are the blame Bush for any thing dirty or low down crowd. I respect the opinions of many HA blog posters because I can see their point, if I change my frame of reference. The ACLU’s drive for removal of all judeo-christian principles this country was founded on is what ticks off real conservatives. Do you understand this now? Do you see it from my vantage point?
PacMan
GBS @ 102, did I miss something? Are we no longer allowed to state as a fact that PacmyassMan is a Fucking idiot!?
PacMan @ 80
We did “excellent building work” in Vietnam, too — and look where it got us. Also noted, despite all the “excellent building work” we’ve done in Iraq, ordinary Iraqi citizens still don’t have electricity or clean drinking water, let alone streets they can walk on without getting shot. And all that “excellent building work” didn’t keep men and weapons from coming down the Ho Chi Minh Trail or crossing the Iraqi borders. You are a fucking idiot, PacMan! In a war, the news story is how the war is going, not how many prefab buildings are being thrown up by the Civic Action teams, and the war ain’t going well. If it was, we wouldn’t have young Americans coming home in body bags at the rate of a half dozen a day.
H,mmm//m … I’m a little hung over this morning
PM @ 103.
Here is why Liberals don’t want religion involved in everyday politics. Don’t blame the ACLU. It’s what the man who penned the Constitution said: I guess that would qualify him as an expert. My only regret is that they weren’t as clear in their explanation of a well regulated militia.
“Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should “make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,” thus building a wall of separation between church and State.”
Thomas Jefferson, letter to a Committee of the Danbury Baptist Association, Connecticut, January 1, 1802
Thomas Jefferson: An original Democrat. Now that’s Old School.
PM
This is one of the most important passages:
“that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions,”
The last word being the operative word.
PM
This is why the Terri Schiavo fiasco infuriated many Americans. Most of the reasoning behind the Republicans decision to pursue this cause was purely opinion. Therefore, congress, and the president should not have taken ACTION in this matter.
OK PM my missing in action post is at 102.
Thanks, Goldy.
PM @ 92
Take a breath my brother form another mother. I never said I was a minority. I’m fairly white being of Irish descent. All though I have claimed, falsely I’ll admit, that I’m black from my belt to mid thigh.
PacMan:
You want to have engage in civil discourse. You’ll find it with me, if you keep it civil.
The neocon moniker is used in the same context when a conservative uses “Liberal” as a derogatory comment. Get it?
You’ve been know to throw around a few names, too. So, if you want to let by gones be by gones and start fresh, I can do that. Or not. Your call.
PacMan:
You got a lot off your chest @ 92. I’m gonna have to print it out and make notes in the margin. Give me some time to respond with questions and comments.
GBS
PM, I know “nameless” still adheres to the lie that the 911 commission and Senete Intelligence Report found a link between Osama and Saddam, do you still hold to that lie?
Be advised, I have read both reports and as I have in the past I will quickly lead every HA blog reader to the pertanent passages. You have been warned.
So, I ask, did these reports find a conection between Osama and Saddam?
Actually, GBS @109, Thomas Jefferson did not “pen” the Constitution, he was one of the framers. The individual who actually penned it was a paid scribe.
Oh, and your point was good, error notwithstanding.
Ok, back w/ some on erosion of rights (from right wing)
http://www.townhall.com/bookclub/roberts.html
I could go on and on. Take me back to Barry Goldwater.
GBS: Fair enough assessment of our discussion. But I never said I received my masters from the Ivy, it was RIT. Congratulations on being black from the belt line to the thighs. I say it’s good to be equipped. On the east coast we called it hanging wang! Now that we have cleared the air about our pasts, I wonder about the past of donnageddon, headless lucy, david, dj, unkl witz and others. Fess up you all. I really want to know where donna and headless were educated as they provide worthless discussion points. Talk about repeating the lefty mantras each time they speak. Please you two, think it out and write a cogent reply. If it works I’ll agree such as my anit-abortion stance on you. But the other tripe and bile from both your hands is as bad as you claim Cynical’s is.
Now, to accurately answer your question regarding the Al Qaeda – Iraqi Connection I reread the Senate Report by PAt Roberts ad Jay Rockefeller 301-340. There were identified connections between the two highlighted on pages 314, 329-331, & 334-337. Also the document Conclusions 92, 93 & 95, discuss that the connections are reasonable.
Regarding the use of this information, I use it only to say that there were connections and some coordination. I don’t think anyone from what I can see reviewing commentary, even from the man who will remain nameless, has ever said that Iraqis helped with 9/11. The report does say that Saddam’s IIS did case many locations and the US Embassy had a bomb probably placed there by Iraqis, and other US installations were being cased by Saddam’s IIS in 2001 thru early 2003.
Regarding the comment from Puddy regarding Lee Hamilton on the 9/11 Committee, I ask all posters to consider the record of Lee Hamilton, retired Indiana congressman. If he said he thought there were links between Iraq and Al Qaeda but not on the 9/11 attack why can’t people (I use that word perjoratively on headless and don(na(geddon)) accept what he says? Are you so hell bent on the blame Bush mindset that if someone disagrees with you a comment appears on the blog (you accept a congressman’s word)? Well my counterargument is anything that Harry Reid, Charles Rangel or others say is trumpeted here on this blog. You all accept a congressman or senator’s words only when it fits your point of view? Sorry that’s a specious argument. Try again with a better gun and improved ammunition. I suggest armor piercing and a 44 magnum.
Le PacMan
PacMan, nameless one here. I just returned from a client meeting. God still provides!!!
I will continue to speak for myself. I will continue to be a thorn in the side of GBS. From his earlier post #22 GBS is a minority imposter. I thought he was black, as he said “This is why the majority of minorities vote Dem. Not that we’re perfect, because we are not, but many know who the real defenders of freedom are and it’s not the likes of modern day republicans.” So if I implemented the GBS presumptive illative inferential analytical deduction methods: GBS you are a damn liar, you worthless piece of white trash masquerading as a black man! I heard of pity parties but you win the cake hands down. GBS, you implied you were a minority. You ain’t shit. You are worthless scum associating yourself that way. Then you have the unmitigated gall to lie to the ladies saying you were hung like a black man too? Now take your white trash ass and apologize to everyone here.
Now I feel better.
Pudster
Puddy–
That’s tellin’ him!!!
GBS =Gobs of Bull Shit
PacmyassMan asks @ 120 “I ask all posters to consider the record of Lee Hamilton, retired Indiana congressman. If he said he thought there were links between Iraq and Al Qaeda but not on the 9/11 attack why can’t people (I use that word perjoratively on headless and don(na(geddon)) accept what he says? “
No. Because the two commissions given the job of determining the facts state quit succinctly that you, PacmyassMan, and Nameless, are completely full of shit!
Senate Intelligence Report on 911
Conclusion 99. Despite four decades of intelligence reporting on Iraq, there was little useful intelligence collected that helped determine the Iraq regime’s possible links to al-Quida
911 Commission Report
Chapter 2 page 66
“But to date we have seen no evidence that these or the earlier
contacts ever developed into a collaborative operational relationship. Nor
have we seen evidence indicating that Iraq cooperated with al Qaeda in developing or carrying out any attacks against the United States.â€
So PacmyassMan. You are a belligerent liar, I will give you that. But you are a liar nontheless.
Nameless said @ 121
“GBS you are a damn liar, you worthless piece of white trash masquerading as a black man! “
and “ You ain’t shit.â€
Previously the falsely moralizing Nameless has often posted this quote.
““I stated it once before from Dr. Desmond Tutu:”Don’t raise your voice, improve your argument.†When the facts state otherwise, they arm their small minds with vitriol and nasty name calling. “
Nameless, you are a hypocritic heathen, and Jesus weeps when he hears your words.
Mr. Cyn-Irr, shame on you fors encouraging these fools. You know you are laughing behind their pathetic backs.
GBS: I was ready to hit the sack and I cruised the blog one last time. Didn’t I tell you that donnageddon would repeat the exact same tripe from before. Didn’t I say donnageddon would refer to one section and repeat ad nauseum until she believes it in her narrow world? Thank you donnageddon for proving my point to everyone here. Each time you sit down to the keyboard your brain stops and the fingers only know that which they typed before.
I pity the fool (B A Barracus) who married Don or is it Donna? FROM NOW ON DON/DONNA WILL BE CALLED IT. Typing IT is so much easier. Didn’t I tell you that IT is masquerading as someone with a brain? What part of my post does IT not understand? I sat down and read many pages to answer the question posed by GBS and what does IT say? I mentioned attacks against the United States? Hello IT. Earth to IT? Earth to IT? Earth to IT? Fading echo. Did I say that? Did Lee Hamilton say that? No IT we didn’t.
IT, do you have a problem reading when the document gets into the triple digits? Is page 99 the maximum comprehension level for your (Stealing from someone else) pea sized brain rattling in that large mushroom sized head? Or is you brain the size of a snake. At least the snake tests the air with their tongue before slitering out of their lair. But no, not IT. IT says the same thing over and over. But wait! Alas, IT has a penis fetish. She has stated it before on this blog. If cocksucking were a sport, IT would have already met the applicant contestant qualifications. She is thinking about GBS’ johnson. So I present IT to you HorsesAsses. IT can’t comprehend, let alone read.
IT here is suggestion, start at page 300. Yah reading this? Download the whole document, double-click on it, and watch as Adobe Acrobat opens up. The document will load. Navigate to page 301, it will be at the page bottom. USe the sliding bar on the right hand side. Please start reading there. I highlighted the pages for you so even a simpleton like yourself IT, can take their time and read. Maybe you will implement Dr. Desmond Tutu’s saying afterall.
Oh, and IT, take some time and talk to Goldy. He will provide lessons in copy and pasting. Dear HorsesAsses: IT doesn’t help your case for persuasion. If IT could form a cogent thought I could dialog. Last, if you are looking for a battle of wits IT, you are so unarmed. Disecting you will be like taking a tomato to a vegematic. Slicing and dicing. Please take up the challenge IT.
De Great PacMan chasing ITs sorry ass all over the PacMAn game!
PacMan, no one took your challenge to describe their educational history. I suppose most of these liberal bloggers have not climbed the ladder of higher education (to become more leftist per our resident all-knowing thinker, the “well-hung black man” GBS) except for a couple of you who answered me in an exchange earlier this year. You know GBS, at least you post some good thought out positions on this blog. But as I said in the Schiavo thread, “U are an asshole”, now masquerading as a well hung black man!
For the record “hung like a black GBS”, if you fully read the Schaivo blog instead of reading every third sentence you would have read, “I applied for scholarship as I have a brain, did well on SATs and I received a Navy scholarship with the proviso that I attend summer boot camp with everyone else the next summer.” I didn’t get paid “hung like a black GBS” on the scholarship because I didn’t attend summer bootcamp. Ever heard of retroactive payment? I know, the “hung like a black GBS’s” comprehension is low because all the blood in between the belt and the thighs. So I don’t owe anything to anyone. I have my four year degree. My diploma hangs at home on a house wall, as I am not like some people who have their degrees plastered all over their offices.
Pudster
Back to the topic. Arnold wants to have teacher tenure delayed. He also wants to reform other activities in CA. THE CEA has cried foul. Headless how long did it take for you to get tenure? Whatever it is it’s not long enough.
PacMan
PacmyassMan, you are like a cockraoach with its head snapped off. You just keep fumbling about even though you have been completely eviscerated by the simple truth.
Pacman @ 105
I never said anything derogatory about the Religious Right. My point is that when coupled with Corporate America these two political powers are, well, powerful. Furthermore this union seems unlikely, since morality is central to one and not possible in the other. So a potentially successful political strategy might be to try to expose this disconnect.
PacMan,
Please go back and digest the entire conversation that Rigthon and I were having that led up to my post at 22. It began with my post @ 9, answering Nindid’s question @ 6 wondering if there is some Republican “handbook” that teaches conservatives how to change the topic when there is a point made they cannot refute.
@ 9 I made several points in my 2nd paragraph that begins to layout my points of how I believe we got to the point in divisive politics today. 1) The modern day conservative movement traces its beginnings between 1964-1968 when the Rockefeller Republicans of the northeast gave way to religious right conservative Republicans of the south. Much of this change was expedited when LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act. When LBJ signed that act into law he said “I fear I have just handed the south to the Republicans.” or something very close to that. In this time period many of those who are in the Republican leadership now, or helped shaped it today were formerly Democrats – Dixiecrats if you will of that era: Strom Thurmond, Trent Lott, Ronald Regan, and several others I cannot name off the top of my head right now are prime examples. I assume it is well known the positions Strom Thurmond held regarding race, as do most know about Trent Lott attending Conservative Citizen Council meetings. PacMan, I’m sure you know that people of color are not welcome at any CCC meeting.
I went on to further my points using Regan and Limbaugh. Again not by accident, but by design. Regan first because he is the iconic leader of modern day Republicans. How many times to you hear conservative talking heads call themselves “Regan Republicans?” (i.e. Sean Hannity) I also used Limbaugh for several reasons, but primarily because he was the first successful conservative talk show host. He is the yardstick all others are measured by. Rush, in particular, is condescending and derogative. Which is why I bring up the Rio Linda story. For those of you unfamiliar with the area, Rio Linda is an outlying community of Sacramento. Primarily an agriculture area. We called them “goat ropers” growing up. Rush refers to them because when he first got to Sacramento he was driving around the Sacramento area trying to get the lay of the land. As he came across Rio Linda he realized these were a bunch of, well, no other way to put it, dumb hicks. Hence, the term “for you folks in Rio Linda” was born. Rush’s derogatory and blatantly inaccurate statements are now well documented and I’m not going to waste any more time on him other than to say he fans the flames ignorance to his audience of 25 million, or whatever it is now.
@ 17 Righton makes him comments implying we were the ones who started all this stuff. He was inferring that Democrats invented the “nasty game” being played in politics. Specifically in that passage cited James Carville and Paul Bergala by name as instigators of the hate politics we endure today.
Yes? Agree so far that’s what transpired? At least with how the conversation progressed, not that you agree with my points.
“Nameless” I w-i-l-l g-o s-l-o-w, d-o y-o-u u-n-d-e-r-s-t-a-n-d s-o f-a-r? O-r d-o y-o-u n-e-e-d m-e t-o u-s-e c-r-a-y-o-n-s? Oh, yeah and wipe the drool off of you chin, it’s about to drip on your keyboard, you testicle-less moron.
@ 20 I basically told I Righton to figure it out and suggestted a Google search. I’m not the type who’s going to provide links for source material. Do your own f’ing homework, I do mine. The middle part of my post is more filler that substance, I’ll be the first to admit, but close with what will soon become a critical point in American politics; and that is a clear and convincing victory in Iraq is critical, lest we face the same humiliating defeat the Soviets did in Afghanistan. A topic, I believe, worthy of discussion. And, that is a valid point of discussion for which the Republican’s, and in particular Bush, misled us into war in Iraq. And at the very least, grossly mismanaged the entire war end-to-end, WMD’s aside.
My post @ 22 goes back to support my points about Regan, remember I used him by design. I included inflamatory quotes made by Regan himself to support my claims of the Republican Southern Strategy. And, this is the post where you misunderstood, PacMan. And, I can see how that might happen, I’ll accept my responsibility for not communicating clearly to you. I’ll explain it better here.
First, the BIGGEST F-U-C-K Y-O-U in the history of blogs to “nameless,” you dolt.
OK PacMan my clarification on the closing paragraphs. Without getting into the whole history of the civil rights movement, of which I’m no expert either, but, many black people have/had a genuine fondness for the Kennedy’s, John and Bobby (iconic figures of modern day Liberalism), because they helped champion the cause for enacting the Civil Rights Act. And “this is why the majority of minorities vote Dem (Democratic).
“Not that we are perfect, because we are not,” (here I’m referring to the Democratic party not being perfect, not myself being a minority). Not being perfect because it’s also well know that while JFK was well intentioned regarding civil rights, he clearly had the FBI illegally monitoring Dr. Martin Luther King. That was a misuse of power born out of fear of what the “Negroes” were planning. Now in my book, that’s sick, I make no excuses for it, it was plain wrong.
The last part of my sentence begins to set up several other arguments for me down the road that will tie back to the Civil Rights Act “but many know who the real defenders of freedom are and it’s not the likes of modern day republicans.” Democrats have lost power, i.e. the Southern states because they championed a cause that was unpopular at the time in that region of the country: granting equal rights to minorities. The tie I bring up here, and use “modern day republicans,” is the gay rights issue. I’m not gay, but I cannot for the life of me begin to understand why anyone would get behind an amendment to the Constitution of the United States for the express purpose of EXCLUDING rights to any group of law abiding citizens. In particular, I don’t understand why blacks would get behind that idea. Now some might say it’s a lifestyle choice. I disagree and I believe the thread “Love and commitment” begins to show that there is emerging SCIENCE behind my argument. And, just for a moment, consider your own natural attraction to the opposite sex. Then can honestly say you could make a choice to be attracted to the same sex? I hardly think so. I believe, as the thread points out it may be an attraction that is hardwired in the brain while in the womb. Which would make it no more of a choice as being born black. So to use the Constitution to discriminate is outrageous.
I’m wondering how many people will defect form the Democratic party for our stance to grant equal rights under the law to EVERYONE — including gays. This is what I mean by the “defenders of freedom.” You don’t have to shoot a gun to be a defender of freedom. I don’t believe Dr. Martin Luther King or Ghandi preached violence as a means of attaining equal rights and dignity, but I could be wrong.
OK, now on to Righton’s post @ 23: Skip the list of points he makes a-e, at the end he infers Democrats “take” away their guns.
My post @ 24: I state I have much RESPECT for Righton. And I issue one specific challenge to show where anyone has taken or is taking away his guns. Which he admits in a later post @ 36 that the “gun thing was just a red herring”
@ 25. Mr. Cynical, whom I’ve rarely, if ever, engaged in dialogue, comes out swinging at me. Now he proves my assertion that conservatives will hurl insults to reframe the debate when they are losing. I attempted in a civil way to have a real DEBATE on gun control with Righton and what’s Mr. C do? PacMan, I’d like very much to hear your opinion on this particular exchange regarding me making a civilized point, in a civilized manner to Righton and then Mr C’s responses. Specifics please without saying you can’t defend someone else that you don’t even know. It is my assertion that Republicans (see aren’t you proud of me from using the term “neocon”?) tend to jump on the insult wagon first.
A few silly post by me (inane) is the word I believed you used. OK point taken. Well, maybe you didn’t mean these post, but I know what you mean.
@ 36 Righton is in a hurry to get to the Mariner’s game but says he’ll get me some National Review stuff to make his point.
@ 37 I say OK “enjoy the game” and that I would look FORWARD to getting his material for review. In the meantime I pose a very legitimate question, again framed and posed with civility regarding his thoughts on the effect of the Patriot Act on the 4th amendment since we were discussing the erosions of our rights.
@ 38 He asks a question that really requires a detailed and complex answer but, hell the guy is grabbing his keys and LEAVING.
@ 42 I make the most succinct answer that I possibly can that gives a reason and a conclusion. Again, civilly.
I give RR some ribbing @ 44 which is really a rip on the Patriot Act and Bush on 9/11. That’s it for me for the day.
@ 80 You come back to the blog. You give me credit for knowing the Calif. landscape, ask me a question, and the close with asking me why I hate you. (Whatever. I don’t know where this came from, but you see I really ignored it and, in fact, made folly of it in my response @ 81. I said I don’t “hate you at this moment in life”, but who knows what tomorrow will bring, but I also made reference to the WWJD bracelet which is an attempt at humor for casting “nameless” into the fires of hell. Then, I answered your riddle me this question. The worst, thing I said was “fucking Iraqi elementary schools.”
@ 83 I added my additional thought, albeit speculation because I was not 100% certain. But again, civility ruled.
@ 84 I was really ripping on “nameless” but asking you if you finished your Ivy League education. OK, I’ll even give you that the tone was a challenge, although it was really a backhanded slap to “nameless” for not finishing his and portraying something else. But I digress.
@ 89 I ask you if your “thinking caps” means wrapping aluminum foil around your head. Now that’s just plain funny.
@ 90 M. Cope suggest we should do whatever the conservatives are doing and match fire with fire.
@ 91 My response was what? Not to match fire with fire and, in my opinion, the more educated someone becomes the more they TEND to be Liberal. What are we really talking about here? No Child Left Behind. And I close by making the point using LEFTIST PINHEADS. Now I wonder who uses that term “liberally?”
@ 92 you over reached a bit, particularly with your ending comments about how I might have been treated as a “minority” and having to “prove it to you” comments. But, there was a misunderstanding and through this post I’ve explained in great detail how the misunderstanding came to be and what my thoughts were and why. As for your “vitriolic hatred” comment, I stand “guilty as charged” if it pertains only to “nameless.” In particular on the Schiavo thread. That is one type of deceitfulness I cannot and will not tolerate. I suppose that I should tolerate it, but, damn it, I’m stubborn on the issue and my heels are dug in. I’m sorry that you feel the way you do, but I accept your rebuke. I felt strongly that I should clear up any misunderstanding between you and I and accept responsibility for anything on my part that conveyed otherwise.
In this post I’ve shown beyond a reasonable doubt that in this thread I was in fact, thoughtful, courteous, honest and willing to engage in civil discourse while at the same time showing that the likes of Mr. C. and whatever “nameless” wrote as not capable of reciprocating. I can’t say I know for sure what “nameless” has been babbling about in this thread because as I’ve said before, I have vanquished him from my eyes and “nameless” is a non-entity to me on this blog. I must confess my joy at that the “nameless” moniker is catching on. Although, I’m sure he totally glommed on to your coattails, as is his mode of operandi.
In closing, I would like to extend my hand to PacMan and shake hands ((shake, shake)) and start anew. Opening a new era in meaningful civil discourse with somebody from the other side of the isle in a gesture to close the gap between the left and the right and find common ground again in American politics. I hope you accept, PacMan.
Respectfully,
GBS
whoa, nice post. I got some National Review stuff to dig up.
(and to repeat on the gun thing, I’m ok with regulating them, as i read the amendment to apply to states rights, militias.)
Of course since we have few states rights any longer, that’s another issue.
Are the mariners winning today?
righton @ 132
I’m for a citizen’s rights to keep and bear arms. In my lifetime I’ve shot all the guns I care to and with kids in my house I opt not to exercise that right. But my no means should the be construed to ban the ownership of guns. I’m not for unrestricted gun ownership, however. Firearms are deadly. For all intent and purposes they are designed to be lethal. Private gun sales, gun shows or a gun store should fall under the exact same regulations. Strict.
I haven’t had chance to check up on the Mariners. Being from Sacramento, I’m an A’s fan and worse yet a Raider fan, too.
righton, yep you got some stuff to dig up for me, as promised by you.
Any thoughts on the Patriot Act and your 4th amendment rights?
Right on, did you stay out too late last night drinking cold ones and commiserating about the loss?
GBS: Nice post reasonable and somewhat fair. Regarding the “I would like to extend my hand to PacMan and shake hands ((shake, shake)) and start anew.”, I accept with the back at you shake, pound, high five, down low, double hand clasp! If only others could dialog this way we’d be a better country. I would love to sit down with you and have a civil discussion. Why is that? Because you want to meet the issue half way.
You challenged me to re-review the Senate and 9/11 reports. I did. I could not find the 9/11 report so I used the NoName (Puddy) comment on Lee Hamilton. I guess that comment scares IT and other people. I found it on the web, and just like you say GBS dammit, perform your own due diligence. I have the Senate report locally saved and I took over an hour to read the report section twice to ensure I responded with facts. Joe Friday, “Just the Facts Ma’am”. I qouted from the report of reasonable connections and ties. But what does IT say? Same shit different day (SSDD). Ensure, IT’s favorite drink, since IT has no teeth, especially in ITs’ arguments.
I would like an answer from you on this: How can you support liberal positions and people where the way out kook fringe of your party (headless lucy, IT) would spit upon you and call you vile names upon your return from overseas service? I just don’t get it. Your party is run by the kook lefty fringe. I love listening to Howard Dean. For him to talk about us blacks is such denigrating terms, “the hotel staff” – kiss my large black ass Howard Dean! We don’t hold anything else except menial jobs. Do you see why more Buppies (Black Urban Professionals) are checking out the Republican Party? Your leaders have done nothing to reshape the financial landscape for the inner cities for the 40 years you owned congress. I come from a large east coast city. I will no longer divulge information here, but the challenge is still on for headless, IT and others to tell me where did they attend school (did you graduate) so my children will not attend that institution of higher learning and be converted to the dark side!
I just received an email with a 206 area code saying I can get another degree with full certification and accreditation in 2 weeks. Maybe IT needs a degree? With this degree IT can improve their conversational and topical tone? Nah, I doubt it. Alas, IT did you remove the cock from your mouth? Maybe then you can write something fully argumentative with me.
Sorry for the digression but as Puddy is nameless to you IT is stupid to me! Now I will soon see it written that my party is overrun by the religious kooks. But as headless tried to spout off by calling American religious leaders the “Taliban” is another of those headless ooops… brainless comments that doesn’t need further dignification. Loocy is (borrowing a spelling here) stoopid cannon fodder for us righties. There is my example of vitriolic hatred fromt he left. Well, I categorized IT and Loocy as kooks so I guess I have to live with their worthless comments as you say about Puddy.
BTW I doubt Puddy is glommed (I had to look that word up, never heard of it B4) to me. Otherwise he would have been parroting my comments. He takes on the issues as he sees them. My defense of Puddy is not for his sake but more of at times I can undersatnd his argument. So I say let Puddy be Puddy. You can hate him, but what will that do for your WWJD experience? I don’t hate IT or Loocy, I would love to have a logical conversation with them here. Loocy has to admit I am the first “neocon” to somewhat agree with her about abortion. But each time IT writes I am PACmyassMAN. IT does have a penis fixation!! Maybe IT wears a butt-plug so the brains contained within are not flushed out. How do you fart IT, or is that constant burping? Or maybe IT wants me to pack ITs’ ass. I was called Pacmyassman, so if I review the metaphor, it has to be about the johnson!! I have to check with the wife. Nah, I already know the answer. Keep that trap door shut!!! Please IT I want an intellectual challenge, lets play the numbers. To steal a GBS line: “You game?”
Thanks for reading GBS. I will answer your higher education post at a later time. Keep on Trucking Baby (Eddie Ruffin).
PacMan – Not PACmyassMAN as that is IT, formerly known as donnageddon
PM @ 120
It has come to my attention from another Blogger that “nameless” is posting that I claim to be well hung like a black man. Since I don’t read “nameless'” posts I can only go on hearsay. I did discover in your post a slight misunderstanding as to exactly what I said. Knowing how “nameless” can’t get his facts straight and lays down a mondo sized snail trail whenever wiener talk is mentioned, I thought I’d better clear the air.
A comment from your post @ 120: “Congratulations on being black from the belt line to the thighs.”
My post @ 113 “All though I have claimed, falsely I’ll admit, that I’m black from my belt to mid thigh.”
The ‘falsely I’ll admit’ portion means I’m not hangin’ wang east coast style, but on the other hand I’m not mushroom cap boy either like. . . well you know, he whose two birth defects are most likely undescended testicles and an inverted penis. But I won’t mention him by name.
GBS: I fessed ignorance on Patriot Act. I think i’ve got enough to do between work, family and answering the “gun grabbers and now land grabbers are taking away our rights” to bother w/ Patriot Act. That is, all i’ve heard is screaching from the left, and never some reasoned arguement why its bad.
Until i hear some reason to dislike it (other than “i hate ashcroft” type stuff) I guess I’m inclined to be ok w/ it. That is, if it hasn’t hurt me, and maybe thwarted bad guys, then I guess keep it going. I’m just saying without “proof” of why its bad, why shoud I oppose it.
My only data point its bad is 2 minutes of Bob Barr disliking it. I figure if he took on clinton, and also disklies it, maybe he has a point. But 2 min is about all i know.
Raiders and A’s ; ycch. A’s dress like clowns and Raiders are all ex-cons. Of course A’s gave up Billy Beane (great book on him) and of course its the only warm stadium in the Bay area..
OK Righton your next on my list. First I have to formulate an answer for PacMan. You’re on my tomorrow to do list.
GBS
PM @ 136
OK you finally get the your answer and you deserve it regarding my support of the Democrats and veterans returning from Viet Nam and getting spit upon. It’s a fair question that deserves an honest and well thought out answer. First the obligatory pound five, hi five, lo five, slap me 10, spin around, jump back wanna kiss myself, right back at ya “brah.”
That always feels better.
Give me a few minutes. When you made your comment about thanking God for his blessing you with color it reminded me of one of my favorite poems. Here’s the ending stanza of it. I saw the person perform it live on the UNR campus. Can you name the author? Extra bonus points for you if you can.
My life ain’t heaven
but it sure ain’t hell.
I’m not on top
but I call it swell
if I’m able to work
and get paid right
and have the luck to be Black
on a Saturday night.
GBS, thats Maya Angelou. I am not a big fan of hers, but I know some of her work. Is this a dig on Puddy? The full poem is about someone trying be something they are not. Man you are cagy SOB (said nicely). Respect points given. Can I use it on IT? IT pretends to have a brain. We all know better.
Regarding your comment on blacks choosing Democrats and how the VRA of 1964 was signed by Johnson, I hate to do this but Puddy put up some good research on this topic sometime ago this month in a discussion with Priscilla. He referenced JFK in the late 50’s and his blase attitude on civil rights for blacks because he needed the Southern Democrats to win the presidency. His brother Robert took up the charge and great for him.
Only two senators bolted from the Democratic party to Republican. So only two dixecrats. The VRA would not have passed if it wasn’t for Everett Dirksen of Illinois and his 18 Republican buddies. You need to revisit that because I personally know your facts are wrong. Democrats have no answer for their lack of VRA support. Puddy did some wonderful research that no one dared answered to. I was surprised it shut up Priscilla. I went to the sites to read the commentary. I know your dislike of someone else is like someone pouring lye soap down your gullet, but his research is very good at times. Even Roger Rabbit and DJ have given him kudos on his research. Roger still hates him!!! I wish I could find things that fast on the Internet. I do notice the lefties have heart burn when their own side takes a positive position with the other side on some of their pet peeves.
GBS, I hope to never hear you refer to Florida 2000 and Ohio 2004. If you stay away from that I can easily talk to you. IF not I’ll use another’s line about Tennessee!
PacMan
PM
I’m working on your answer, but I can’t finish tonight. I’ll get back to you tomorow.
No no dig on nameless. I personally like her work and the poem is NOT about someone being something they are not. In fact the opposite it true.
I happen to be a fan of hers, I when I saw her perform this Poem at UNR in Reno, it was fantastic. She brings a great message, but more on that another time.
Peace Out.
Why would I bring up Florida? Like it or not he’s the President. The Supreme Court said so. All right back down just rehtoric.
GBS: Great about Florida. Maybe others will peace out on that too. You do have a brain. Puddy, you should tone down the rhetoric, because I know you will continue to dig up info for your side. Wow, no headless or IT comments.
PacMan
PM, you really are a sly one. Letting me go to all the troble of posting the exact words form the intelligence reports, while you sat back with a big grin on your face because: You had a comment by Lee Hamilton. Genious!
@ 120 you say “I ask all posters to consider the record of Lee Hamilton, retired Indiana congressman. If he said he thought there were links between Iraq and Al Qaeda but not on the 9/11 attack why can’t people… accept what he says?
Man, you got me there. What am I gonna do when all I have is the facts and you have a comment by Lee Hamilton.
Shucks, PM, you and that great researcher Pudster are just to good for the facts.
After all, you got a comment by Lee Hamilton. How could anyone doubt him?
Rhetoric use by Pudster: Great Basketball Game! I from now on will perform my research using language effectively to please the right or persuade the left. How is that PacMan? Regarding crayons, I like purdy colors. I look forward to seeing GBS implementing his crayon arsenal on HA.
Pud
PM @ 143 “Puddy, you should tone down the rhetoric, because I know you will continue to dig up info for your side. ”
Pudster @ 145 “I from now on will perform my research using language effectively to please the right or persuade the left. ”
WOW, that is an interesting (and scary) exchange.
IT good to view you this evening. You copying skills are improving. Damn IT, you just can’t read can you? I made reference to the Senate Report, gave everyone the pages to read and you still haven’t done your due diligence. I must be right regarding the IT problem of reading anything past page 100. Have you ever finished a novel? Anything besides Jack and Jill went up the hill? I guess when Puddy asked if anyone read the Gulag Archipelago, you said: “Damn, that’s a large book and there are three volumes. I’ll never read that for comprehension”. You would have learned much about Alexsandr. IT please keep on writing because you give me plenty of ammunition. If GBS had said “I disagree with you”, he would have referenced why. But not IT, because IT can’t read or research and only refers to the Reader’s Digest Condensed Version of documentation. I noticed headless is letting IT swing precariously by ITself! Headless please com to ITs’ support. It needs your wit and wisdom.
You are just too stoopid for me to provide you life saving critical assistance anymore. I referenced Lee Hamilton’s quote because I could not find my 9/11 report. To use a phrase from GBS, YOU DOLT! Maybe you ARE as dumb as I originally thought. You are as dumb as Jessica Simpson, and probably graded out in college as John Kerry, which everyone now concedes is worse than GWB. DOH! IT, you are as dumb as a stump. DOH! I guess you are as dumb as your comments you make. DOH!
PacMan
PM @ 147 “I referenced Lee Hamilton’s quote bec.use I could not find my 9/11 report.”
No problemo, PM. Take your time in finding the 911 report. I’m not going anywhere. And when you finally “find it”, I’ll be happy to accept your sincere apology.
But considering this “I can’t find my 911 report” has been going on for two months, I imagine you have never really read it, so you are kinda clueless at what a fool you have made of yourself.
No worry. I enjoy our exchanges, in a cruel way. Kinda like playing ping pong with a one armed man.
IT, while I look for the report, you have no response to the Senate Report. You didn’t read it and you just blather. I have nothing to prove to you. So you keep that thought, because no one on your side has come to support your premise. The silence is deafening! Like GBS’ ignorance of the Pudster, you are the bane of my existence. Hence forth you are ignored, of course until the next dumb thing comes out of your mouth. When I decide to download it again I will on my time not yours. No one has said the Iraq was on the 9/11 attacks, except It. I will continue to stand by Lee Hamilton’s comments.
PacMan
PM @ 149 “you have no response to the Senate Report.”
That is the way the truth works, PM. It stands firm, and if you ask me 30 years from now to post the conclusions of the Senate Intelligence Report. I wish I could make stuff up because you seem to wish I didn’t post the same dry facts over and over again… but the truth is important to me, and Jazzing it up for your sake is just not my style.
Again, read, or have someone read @123 for you. I post the EXACT words of the Senate Commission.
As for having Looocy, or anyone else coming to defend me, I am a big boy. I do not need anyone helping me defend what is right. Never have.
Though I do appreciate how you come to Pudster’s defence everytimne he gets his brains beat out on this blog. You are a kind soul for helping him.
Or maybe you just have him hooked to your cult.
But that is none of my business.
Take Care,
Donnageddon
PM @ 143 “Puddy, you should tone down the rhetoric, because I know you will continue to dig up info for your side. â€
Pudster @ 145 “I from now on will perform my research using language effectively to please the right or persuade the left. â€
That is just weird~~~~~~~
IT, glad to know you are a boy. So do you still have that penis fetish? Or, is it a butt-plug vibrator stimulating the prostate? I still like the comment “white liquid breath”!
Pudster
You know, Pudster there is a quote that means a lot to me, perhaps you have heard it.
Dr. Desmond Tutu: “Don’t raise your voice, improve your argument.†When the facts state otherwise, they arm their small minds with vitriol and nasty name calling. “
Sorry… that quote always makes me teary eyed….
Don, you said you are the athiest. So any cult happenings will be from your small mind.
Pudster
Thanks, Puddy, but that is a non-sequitor
Ah, C’mon, Pudster! Aren’t you gonna play anymore? I am just beginning to have fun with you!
IT, you be a male? Wow. That explains why you accused Pud of sucking me off. You have a cock fetish, and you project on others. You see that I’m Ivy League and you want some of my juice, thinking that intelligence spews forth in sperm? Sorry not for your consumption. Okay, so you think you bad, IT? Damn, this thread previous threads so:
Conclusion 92: The Central Intelligence Agency’s examination of contacts, training, safehaven and operational cooperation as indicators of a possible Iraq-Al-Qaida relationship was a reasonable and objective approach to the question.
Conclusion 93: The Central Intelligence Agency reasonably assessed that there were several instances of contacts between Iraq and Al-Qaida throughtout the 1990s, but that these contacts did not add up to an established formal relationship.
Conclusion 94: The Central Intelligence Agency reasonably and objectively assessed in the Iraqi Support for Terrorism that the most problematic area of contact between Iraq and Al-Qaida were the reports of training in the use of non-conventional weapons, specifically chemical and biological weapons.
Conclusion 95: The Central Intelligence Agency’s assessment of safehaven – that AL-Qaida or associated operatives were present in Baghdad and in northeastern Iraq in an area under Kurdish control – was reasonaable.
DonIT please read pages 314, 329-331, 334-337. Got that? You accuse me of not reading, hell you didn’t even download the document? How many pages are in the document. Yes go ahead and download it so you can answer teh question.
These four conclusions prove there were operational links. I know of no one on the right on this blog has said there are any connections between the Saddam and 9/11. You said, you continue to say it and tomorrow you will say it again. The HA crowd is awfully quiet on your side DonIT. Don’t let the door hit your butt plug as you leave the room under humiliating circumstances.
PacMan
Thanks, PM for your “honest and civil”, but delusional response in defense of Pudster’s fumbling rants.
But you forget, that all you lead up to is topped by: AHEM!!!
Conclusion 99. Despite four decades of intelligence reporting on Iraq, there was little useful intelligence collected that helped determine the Iraq regime’s possible links to al-Quida\
Meaning: all the preceding was “reasonable” but in fact complete BS and conjecture.
Which brings me to: A one act Play starring PacMan and Pudster
Pudster: PacMan! Donn is a self confessed Atheist, but still he will not tell people that he eats babies and throws fire bombs at Santa!
PacMan: Pudster, Get a hold of yourself! Ateists don’t eat babies they abort them! {slap} And quit swearing! You promised you would “performyour research using language effectively to please the right or persuade the left. â€
Didn’t you!
Pudster: I tried, but, by Jupiter, Donnageddon got me all confused with facts and all! How can I possibly deal with that!>
PacMan: Do like I do; Ignore the facts and bring up Lee Hamilton a lot! At least until we come up with another Bullshit defense to the facts!
Pudster: PM! You swore!!!
PacMan: Fuck you, you damn retard! … We need to get an adult operative for HA… who do we have… Damn! No One!.. Pudster, you are all we have… please try to behave and whatever you do.. DO NOT QUOTE REV TUTU AGAIN!! You ignorant ass!
Pudster: … yes, PM I will obey! Please stop hitting me!
PacMan and Pudster have a conference
Pudster: PacMan! Donn is a self confessed Ahteist, but still he will not tell people that he eats babies and throws fire bombs at Santa!
PacMan: Pudster, Get a hold of yourself! Ateists don’t eat babies they abort them! {slap} And quit swearing! You promised you would “performyour research using language effectively to please the right or persuade the left. â€
Didn’t you!
Pudster: I tried, but, by Jupiter, Donnageddon got me all confused with facts and all! How can I possibly deal with that!>
PacMan: Do like I do; Ignore the facts and bring up Lee Hamilton a lot! At least until we come up with another Bullshit defense to the facts!
Pudster: PM! You swore!!!
PacMan: Fuck you, you damn retard! … We need to get an adult operative for HA… who do we have… Damn! No One!.. Pudster, you are all we have… please try to behave and whatever you do.. DO NOT QUOTE REV TUTU AGAIN!! You ignorant ass!
Pudster: … yes, PM I will obey! Please stop hitting me!
And so it goes…. on and on…
Don, the quote is: “Don’t raise your voice, improve your argument.” You need to improve those copying skills. Must be the man juice on the fingers.
Having fun with me? Doubt it. Regarding Dr. Tutu, the wife and I flew down on a Lufthansa 747 from Frankfurt to Johannesburg with him in July 1998. A most memorable experience. He married two of our friends (he is an Anglican pastor) who live just north of Cape Town. The man is so kool!
PacMan why do you come to my defense. I appreciate the support but it makes Don or IT unhappy.
Pudster
Puddly please read me @ 153 (Tutu quote) , do you ever look at yourself in the morning and say “Damn, I am sick and tired of being wrong all the time!”
And Puddly, I have seed you quote the flight with the Rev. Tutu mnay times.
Do you really think Tutu remembers you for anything more than the obnoxious smell you exude?
And Puddly, do you ever think about the fact that Dick Cheney, while in Congress voted AGAINST as resolution damning Apatheid?
Huh? What would the truly great man Rev. Tutu think of that, Puddly?
Huh?
Moron
Don, you are a waste of God’s wonderful creation. What was the point of the last post? Self flaggelation is a good guess. To quote DJ, you live in a small intellectual prison. Every senator on the Intelligence Committee said there were links between Saddam and Al-Qaida. What Levin and Feinstein said that the Prsident used the WMD issue to lead us into war. They never disputed the links. Research the Internet. I just did. If you find a link that refutes their position in the MSM, please post it and I’ll read it.
Only you say they are wrong. Do you really think Dianne Feinstein, Carl Levin or John Edwards would have allowed Jay Rockefeller to make comments about the links on national TV if there were none. If you read the pages I suggested, you would have read about Salman Pak training site, Zarwaqi coming to get medicinal help for Afghanistan battle wounds and given free reign in Baghdad, and the Anwar Al-Islam training base in northern Iraq for starters. There are more documented evidence in the report but you won’t read it, because when you see the evidence you won’t be able to keep up the charade. So you keep thinking about the 99 conclusion.
Oh I almost forgot to answer Puddy’s question. I think he is a good researcher of the Internet. I wonder how does he get the time to research some of Goldstein’s rants. I like the use of Democrats against Democrats. But Don, where are your friends?
PacMan
PM “Don, where are your friends?”
Gosh PM, will you be my friend if I renounce my intelligence and agree with your bullshit?
That would be super-duper! Do I have to wear the Nikes and have my balls cut off? I don’t like robes. Is it ok if I wear jeans and a t-shirt?
PacMan, I have seen your type before. I only hope Puddy escapes your grip before you send him to meet the “Comet”
FUCK OFF!
Don you surely do think in really simple terms. I will continue to repeat the trip as long as you continue to bring up his wonderful words.
Have you studied anything or do you look for the easy way out? Do you forget why Cheney voted against Apartheid? The US was afraid of Russia using their Angolan influence (Cuban troops in Angola) to destabilize SA and take it communist. Remember the gold mines and the money coming in for gold at that time was the major support means for Apartheid to exist. Russia needed hard currency to keep it’s way of life afloat. Do you remember what Gorbachev said? Reagan bankrupted us. If they killed Apartheid too quickly, the Russians would then own the southern part of Africa free of charge.
When the South Africa military launched a series of assaults on Angola in 1983, the UN Security Council passed Resolution 546 (6 January 1984) calling for all member states to render aid to Angola. The U.S. abstained on the resolution, but did broker an agreement hinging on the withdrawal of all foreign troops — both South African and Cuban — from Angolan soil.
Then in 1986 a Harris poll taken revealed that by a 60-30% margin the American people opposed sanctions that would force American companies out of South Africa. But again you forget these fine points of the argument.
In 1986 Reagan asked South African President P.W. Botha to begin dismantling apartheid. The SA president wanted an official invitation to the White House. Secretary of State Shultz and Reagan opposed inviting Botha to Washington, insisting that the South Africans had to make real progress toward ending apartheid before he would issue the invitation. So what did the SA government do, they attacked ANC camps in Zambia, Botswana and Zimbabwe. Eventually Botha resigned and FW De Klerk replaced him, let Nelson Mandela go and the rest is history.
Pudster
Puddy, does all this mental masturbation drain the blood from your brain so much you cannot see what nonsense you are posting?
Have you no sense of honor? Can you at some point just realize you are dealing with the devil, and you (and your descendents) are being burned? Are you so afraid of letting reason and love into your dark world that you would cling to such dank foul reasoning?
What happened to you? Why do you cling to PacMan’s robes?
There is a magical world of reality awaiting you! You just need to put PacMan’s Kool Aid down and walk away!
You have friends here in “reality world”. Do not be afraid!
I know it is hard! But you are strong!
Move to the light Pudster… move to the light.
Don what is my type? You must be clairvoyant. Are you riding the COmet right now Don. Is that butt plug a comet up your ass, or are those emissions betixt your nether cheeks a rocket of some sort? Are that “Brother from another planet”? You know my type. Typical liberal BS. You don’t know me or what motivates me. I enjoy ribbing you. But I really enjoy having a man to man coversation with GBS. I look forward to one with DJ and David and Roger Rabbit. Now those are real lefty men. You are a boy. I await GBS’ response to my Vietnam and lefty kook question. You will witness real communication between real men in real time. Stay tuned Don, you may learn a lesson from GBS. But in all seriousness Don, you continue to provide me comedic material to use against you. In your own words, nonetheless.
But then again, when you battle Cynical you lose too, and all he uses is LEFTIST PINHEADS. Now you expect each and every one of your insignificant and ignominious rants to stir something in me? I ignored what; four or five of them? Wrong oh, oh mentally castrated one. I bet you are that effiminate makeup guy on :”The Comback” show on HBO.
I am going to bed now, gonna get some pussy Don, you know from the loving wife. I’m being called to deliver the goods now. It sure is good to marry a chocolate wife. Maybe you should try black Don. Oh yeah, you being white may not be packing enough equipment in that area. How about you? Maybe a visit from rosy palm and her five sisters? Good night Don. I hope rosy palm is good to you.
PacMan
Don, Pivot man in a circle jerk: You asked about Cheney voting against Apartheid. I gave you a little history lesson. Again the small atrophied brain within that head doesn’t remember history so you rant about something really unintelligible. Just WTF are you talking about in that last post? I thought you were the spawn of Beelzebub since you claim to be an athiest! Is Sheol your home or you just visiting? Did you willingly submit to having those balls cut-off or were you chemically castrated? Maybe you should put you hand down there and see if it your genitalia is intact or is that a corncob?
Pudster
I’m so sorry Don. I have come to the conclusion that you are naturally stoopid. No doubt about it now!
Pudster
{SIGH} PuddlyBuddly, I tried to help you! DAMN!!! I am just not strong enough! {SOB}
I hope someday, someway, a person will get through to you. If not now… Someday!!!
But,oh well, given that Pudster, you still forgot your promise to Pacman
“Pudster @ 145 “I from now on will perform my research using language effectively to please the right or persuade the left. â€
Dang Puddy, already you have broken that promise!
Good night Puddly Wuddly
“
Don, PacMan is the one going to bed, unless you are going to bed now. I did the research on why Cheney voted as he did. You can’t handle the truth so you deflect, obscure, demure, and change the subject. Oh I see, I had a dangling IT. I was thinking of the PacMan name he gave you IT. Nice!!!
Just how do you copy previous posts? If you are now being visited by rosy palm, good night Don. I hope rosy can find it.
Pudster
Wow Pud, you know much about overseas black history for a part greek and jew guy. Did you get that from another Internet search?
Here is the real deal IT. As I remember, Dr. Tutu was upset at the Reagan Administration and admonished them to stand up against apartheid. But Reagan had geopolitical issues to worry about, ie. Soviet expansionism. So the congressional vote was more against communism and not against apartheid. Being black I followed this closely, you dunce!
So the administration moved slowly on anti-apartheid. Do you remember Randall Robinson, of Trans-Africa? He was the big brother of Max Robinson, ABC News anchor in the 80’s. He also got on Reagan’s case for our Anti-Apartheid stance. So Reagan tried to perform so behind the scenes activities. I went to the web and the Harris poll did indeed say that 60% of Americans were against the pullout from SA. After the SA army in 1986 attacked neighboring countries did Coke, GM And other companies start leaving SA, which started the downfall of PW Botha to which he resigned.
So Don(IT) what other rant do you want to sling on Dick Cheney? Are you feeling better after the rosy palm visitation?
PacMan
Pudster, @ 168, this is certainly not the first time you have been caught plagerizing the work of others,and certainly won’t be the last, but if you think copying and pasting the intellectual property of others gains you points in heaven, think again.
Your entire sorry excuse for Cheney’s dispicable behaviour regarding Apartheid has been copied froim here. WORD FOR WORD!
http://eightiesclub.tripod.com/id340.htm
You are surely going to hell along with Cheney and PM
PM @ 143 Puddy, you should tone down the rhetoric, because I know you will continue to dig up info for your side.
Pudster @ 145 I from now on will perform my research using language effectively to please the right or persuade the left.
That is just weird~~~~~~~
PacMan @ 136:
Lt. Gen. Hal Moore once wrote: “Hate war, but love the American warrior!”
That’s my position. Always has been, always will be.
The Vietnam War polarized and divided the nation in ways not seen since the Civil War and gave rise to a sad chapter in American history. Many were seemingly unable to separate the war they hated from the soldiers the country sent to fight that war.
The number of protestors who actually performed such heinous acts were relatively small compared the staggering numbers who joined in the anti-war effort. Many of the protestors were themselves Viet Nam vets. Does this mean they were unpatriotic. No. And, you cannot say all protestors were Democrats, either. This movement cut across all segments of American culture. Young, old, black, white, rich, poor, Democrat and Republican. But I will grant to you they were mostly Liberals.
Given this fact, I reject the argument that being a anti-war protestor automatically makes you a Democrat and every single Democrat a protestor who doesn’t support the military or condones such despicable acts as spitting on vets. Couple that with the fact that the radical element you are painting with a broad brush as Liberals, were also the same people that said “Don’t trust your government” or “Anyone over 30.” They were not what you would call mainstream political activists. They were outside of the boundary of normal political engagement and used every means available to them to effect change. Every large organization has elements that are outside of the bounds of acceptable mainstream thinking. Republicans included.
The Liberals get “labeled” as being anti-military and we must live with it, primarily because of Jane Fonda. Without question she was/is a Liberal icon who really fucked up in North Viet Nam. Suffice to say that I have total and utter disdain for the act she committed that day. Not total disdain for her entirely, because the MSM has smothered all the great work she did with veterans then, and continued to do for a long time. But none the less that day she was way out of line.
In the end, I believe, Liberals held the correct principle that the Viet Nam War was wrong and the cost to America’s youth and our national treasure was not worth the price and that the pretense for going to war was unjustified. Especially when you consider that the the Vietnamese people were fighting for their own FREEDOM and LIBERTY, they did not want to be oppressed and governed by foreign governments. Should America, being the bastion of freedom, liberty and independence really help our “allies” oppress other nations? That is the central question President Eisenhower should have carefully considered before lending support to the French. I submit that he should not have given his support. Considering the staunch support Ho Chi Minh lent to America during our own struggle for survival against the Japanese. Ho Chi Minh fully embraced the ideals of American style democracy and freedom and was very PRO AMERICAN, before we stabbed him in the back that is.
So, while there was without question heinous and despicable acts of a few, it to does not preclude the correct principle held by tens of millions who opposed the war. For me personally, it’s more important to align myself politically with the party that holds to higher principles that are most important to the human experience. Becoming entangled in foreign wars that we have no business being involved in is NOT one of those principles. Similarly, it is NOT patriotic to blindly support our leaders who have unnecessarily put our troops in harms way. I would suggest, that it is unpatriotic to put our young men and women into the meat grinder without vigorously questioning the wisdom of our leaders. We got into Viet Nam under false pretenses which could have been easily avoided. And we got involved without a clear exit strategy.
Today, we find ourselves in a similar situation in Iraq. No one in authority has yet defined the end game or the exit strategy for Iraq. Whatever the answers may be it is good that the American people are not blaming their soldiers for the failures of political leadership. This includes the likes of Headless Lucy, Donnageddon et al you named. This is the most crucial part, PacMan. No solider is being treated in a disrespectful manner today. But, you are reaching across 4 decades of history and tapping the shoulders of ghosts that no longer exist as a reason not to be associated with progressive thinkers. Perhaps you have someone near and dear to you who was treated poorly when they returned from Viet Nam and you harbor ill feeling towards Liberals for that. I don’t know that is purely speculation on my part to try and understand your position on the matter.
To quickly summarize my point, disrespecting solders was wrong. Conversely, the tens of millions Liberals who didn’t commit such despicable acts were correct in their principles regarding the war in SE Asia.
Now it’s my turn to ask you a question.
You posed the question to me why I would be a Democrat given the actions of a few nearly 40 years ago, who were mostly radicals operating outside of defined political parties, much less being politicians.
Given the fact that last month Senator Patty Murray (D) WA tried to amend the $80 billion dollar emergency spending bill for ongoing military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan by adding $1.9 billion dollars for the VA Hospitals. It was voted down by a partly line vote with the lone exception of Rick Santorum (R) PA . Now the VA finds itself in a $1.2 billion dollar short fall.
54 out of 55 Republican senators opposed supporting our soldiers in medical need spanning generations of veterans from WWII to wounded soldiers returning form Iraq and Afghanistan, while every single Democratic Senator supported the them.
It’s one thing to wave the flag and strike up the band when Johnny goes marching off to war, it’s quite another to “spit” on them with the sacred vote of a US Senator when they come back wounded. Now I ask you, how do you reconcile your support of that type of humiliation?
Hate war, but love the American warrior.
So Don (IT) what is your point? I found a source, delivered the goods, and you can’t refute it. Painful again to see another of your rants go up in flames? BTW It isn’t all word for word either.
Try again.
Pudster
Pudster, yes it is… who the hell do you think you are fooling? You plagerized another person’s work and claimed it as you own!
Do you not no shame? You are without a doubt the most dishonest person I have ever known.
And even taking the words you stole, it is absolutely NO DEFENCE for suopporting apartheid as Cheney did.
But that doesn’t matter, I will debate that with the ACTUAL AUTHOR PF THE PIECE!
You lump of shit!
*********
PM @ 143 Puddy, you should tone down the rhetoric, because I know you will continue to dig up info for your side.
Pudster @ 145 I from now on will perform my research using language effectively to please the right or persuade the left.
That is just weird~~~~~~~
Wow, GBS, you are a seer. I do have close Vietnam friends who suffered over there to return and be treated immorally by the left. We see many of these protesters “children” supporters of MoveOn.org and Howie Dean. You call them ghosts, I call them Michael Moore, Ward Churchill, Susan Sarandon, Tim her husband, etc. I think you are shrinking the many to a few over time. We saw the radical left with their sit-ins, protest marches, wearing tricky dick masks, the radical Underground movement (maybe today’s ELF) every night on the NBC Huntley-Brinkley news show. So if the MSM was blowing up a small group of radicals to make it seem there was a large group of radicals, maybe they are spinning the Iraq war the same way to turn people against it?
Regarding Santorum’s vote, I stand with Rick. He did the right thing by voting for the amendment. I think it’s the same old story that always happens in politics, never give an inch to your opponent. Your side hates my side and my side dislikes your side, correct. I am not a lock stepper with the right. If you read my posts you would understand I have some more moderate views on a few life items. This was a stupid thing to do unless they plan to pass legislation later for political consumption. Otherwise it was a bad move.
You talk eloguently about Iraq. I can’t see the comparison though. Where are the enemy offensives (car bombs), where are the hundred of deaths each week like Vietnam? Eisenhower was wrong to support the French after Dien Bien Phu. Who takes the low country while giving your enemy the high ground? Again as Puddy responded above to IT, the issue to Eisenhower was allowing Soviet or Chinese dominance in an area we would need to project power and influence. All Eisenhower did was to send military advisers to Vietnam. It wasn’t until Kennedy/Johnson did the war escalate to the conflict we all remember. Somehow all administrations look at the world as a chess game. If I lose a country I have to pick up another – a zero sum game.
Thanks for the conversation GBS. You are a real gentleman. I understand your support for the left. IT take some lessons. I do disagree with the continual Gitmo and Abu Ghraib rants. It continues to put a target on our soldiers backs which to me is not support. But we can agree to disagree.
PacMan
GBS: A funny for the weekend.
So here is a smile for Friday.
GOLF STORY
Shortly after the Pope had apologized to the Jewish People for the treatment of Jews by the Catholic Church over the years, Ariel Sharon, the Prime Minister of Israel, sent a proposal to the College of Cardinals for a friendly game of golf to be played between the two leaders or their representatives to demonstrate the friendship and ecumenical spirit shared by the Catholics and the Jews.
The Pope then met with his College of Cardinals to discuss the proposal. “Your Holiness,” said one of the Cardinals, “Mr. Sharon wants to challenge you to a game of golf to show that you are old and unable to compete. I am afraid that this would tarnish our image in the world.” The Pope thought about this and since he had never held a golf club in his life asked “Don’t we have a Cardinal to represent me?” None who plays golf very well,” a Cardinal replied. “But,” he added, “there is a man named Jack Nicklaus, an American golfer, who is a devout Catholic. We can offer to make him a Cardinal, and then ask him to play Mr. Sharon as your personal representative. In addition to showing our spirit of cooperation, we will also win the match.” Everyone agreed that this was a great idea. The call was made. Of course, Nicklaus was honored and he agreed to play as a representative of the Pope.
The day after the match, Nicklaus called the Vatican to inform the Pope of the result. “This is ‘Cardinal Nicklaus’…… I have some good news and some bad news, Holiness,” said the golfer. Tell me the good news, Cardinal Nicklaus,” said the Pope.
“Well, Your Holiness, I don’t like to brag, but even though I have played some pretty terrific rounds of golf in my life, this was the best I have ever played, by far. I must have been inspired from above. My drives were long andtrue, my irons were accurate and purposeful, and my putting was perfect. With all due respect, my play was truly miraculous.” “How can there be bad news?” the Pope asked. Nicklaus sighed “I lost by three strokes to Rabbi Tiger Woods!”
Received by email
PacMan
PM @ 143 Puddy, you should tone down the rhetoric, because I know you will continue to dig up info for your side.
Pudster @ 145 I from now on will perform my research using language effectively to please the right or persuade the left.
Very Strange, indeed.
IT, hi there, I’m a human being! What are you? You sure do have a repetition problem. Please seek psychiatric help. Isn’t there a bed waiting for you at Western State Hospital? To use a quote from other people “You live in your own small intellectual prison. You need to come out and get some fresh air. You are an idiot.”
Regarding apartheid, what do you know about it being a white insect of a guy? You should not venture into topics and discussions that you are clueless in. Have your read about Steven Biko’s death in 1977 or necklacing torture? Why do you try and make your point on the back of a Republican, when Apartheid died during a Republican administration similar to the Soviet Union death? What did Carter do to end Apartheid? Why didn’t he say enough after the Biko death? More silly rants. You and your “phantom concern for oppression” disgusts me. Yesterday I said you were as dumb as Jessican Simpson. I recant! You are dumber! IT: An expert on padded cells. Please let yourself back into Western State.
You wrote “That is just weird~~~~~~~” No, your lack of a brain, now that is just weird~~~~~~~!!! That’s all you are reduced to.
PacMan
Don, to take one of your quotes back at you “Don, take your meds.” Doh! The chemical imbalance is apparent again.
Pudster
PacMan @ 181
If you participated in sit-in, protests and wore tricky dick masks that does NOT mean you spat on soldiers. This is the wholesale branding by the right that they erroneously bestowed upon honest Liberal protestors who demanded an end to the war.
Sorry, PacMan, while I feel for your friends who were shit on (much love to them from me ), but, I cannot give this comment a free pass. This is broad brush that the right keeps painting on Liberals that isn’t fair nor is it an accurate portrayal. The number of people who spat on soldiers does not equal the number of war protestors. That math is too fuzzy even for W.
I’m not going to defend Michael Moore as being 100% right or should I say accurate, but the crux of his message in Fahrenheit 9/11 was simple. “Will the youth of this nation trust us again when we send them to war?” We’ll chat on this topic at length later. It is truly going to become the most important topic of our time.
You’re spot on about what we remember of the war being JFK/LBJ doing’s. They deserve most of the culpability for continuing bad policy in the first place. . but it never should have come to that in the first place. Ike blew it. As you know, I didn’t bother to read nameless’ post, but from what you said it was either Soviet or Chinese control of the country. The point is it never would have come to that if Ike didn’t go Frenchy on us. Remember, Ho Chi Minh was a huge proponent of America. Had Ike not rebuffed Minh’s requests for help in the 50’s Viet Nam would have NEVER turned communist and would have been a very friendly US ally right next to Red China. Imagine the intel we could have gathered on China with a partner like Viet Nam in our corner? Damn shame, too. Sans the 57,000 dead Americans & what 250,000 wounded. guessing at the wounded figure but I know it was high. Thus leaving a mess with JFK who was very anti-communist. JFK also blew it on the Bay of Pigs and The Cuban Missile Crisis. That’s part of what I meant earlier when I said “we are not perfect” referring to the Dems, even JFK’s indifference to race in the 50’s. None the less, black people of the era did have a fondness for the Kennedy family, that’s a fact. How much good they did we’ll just split the difference for now some good some not so good.
GBS: Thanks for the history lesson. I didn’t know about HCM and his American slant in WWII. If he was that way, then Ike really screwed the pooch, eh?
Maybe Ahhnold should talk to the SCOTUS?
fathered snark rounder Scandinavians insignificant unwraps
fathered snark rounder Scandinavians insignificant unwraps