Josh Marshall explains the bogus Republican claims of “fraud” surrounding ACORN and voter registration. Well worth a full read, but here’s a sample:
I’ve always had questions about whether this is a good way to do voter registration. And Democratic campaigns usually keep their distance. But here’s the key. This is fraud against ACORN. They end up paying people for registering more people then they actually signed up. If you register me three times to vote, the registrar will see two new registrations of an already registered person and the ones won’t count. If I successfully register Mickey Mouse to vote, on election day, Mickey Mouse will still be a cartoon character who cannot go to the local voting station and vote. Logically speaking there’s very little way a few phony names on the voting rolls could be used to commit vote fraud. And much more importantly, numerous studies and investigations have shown no evidence of anything more than a handful of isolated casing of actual instances of vote fraud.
As McCain’s crowds continue to turn nasty and hateful, the bogus attack on ACORN is simply one more cog in a Republican slime machine that is working overtime. The Swiftboating has little chance of working at this point, both because of the economic scandal and because Americans have seen this crap before and (by and large) aren’t falling for it. People could care less about anything except the ominous threats to their financial well-being.
Epic fail!
Funny, I just posted this on my other blog.
But you missed the big money quote:
And
Of course, Tim Eyman insisted that there has never been a proven case of a paid signature gatherer submitting a false signature or commiting an illegal act. He successfully fought against proposals to even require the signature gatherers to carry I.D.
Yet Eyman’s most ardent supporters are the first to claim that Democratic supporters do just that in their voter registration drives.
If a paid signaturer gatherer in an initiative drive submits false signatures, then the chances of them being caught is pretty low – after all, they are only subject to a randam cross-check of a fraction of the number of signatures submitted. Yet the total number of signatures can make the difference on whether the initiative is on the ballot or not.
But if a person is paid to register voters, there is no benefit to either party unless the person actually votes. The guy who obtains the voter registration card might get paid, but unless the fictitious voter actually goes to the polls, it’s a futile act.
I guess you could argue that somebody could impersonate the fictitious voter and thereby vote more than once, but since they need to provide SOME evidence of ID (voter registration card, utility bills, etc.) that seems to be more trouble in creating batches of fake I.D.s -a seperate individualized ID to match the registration for each vote – it hardly seems worth the effort.
Umm, I’m as liberal as they come, but if Acorn is turning in voter registration forms that they know are fraudulant, then the charges are relevant. And this isn’t the first time they have been accused of this. Maybe they should do a cursory check of the forms to see if any of them contain obvious violations. It may cost them more to do it, but it couldn’t be any more expensive than the negative publicity they are getting.
Just in case the trolls bring up Gregoire/Rossi: F.U.
@3
Most state laws require that any and all registration forms get turned in, whether they are correct, or not. This is supposed to prevent groups from collecting forms and throwing away the opposing party. But the problem with this is that they can’t throw out known bad forms either. So they have to turn them in, and report the bad forms, which is what Acorn does.
Personally, I think they need to abandon the pay-by-count and just pay-by-hour instead, that would reduce the incentive to submit bad forms altogether.
Yeah, because ACORN’s the victim here. They’ve never done anything bad ever, honest I swear.
/sarcasm off
http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....ud26m.html
Yet in contrast, depressing the vote of the opponant is quite a bit easier, and much less risky. Among the things Republicans were caught doing in 2004:
1. Hiring telemarketing firms to flood a Democratic “get out the vote” drive telephone banks with phone calls, effectively shutting down the system.
2. Stationing police at polling stations in minority areas, some of whom would routinely demanding ID from people (even before they got inside the polling areas). In minority areas, where police harrassment and arrests are much more common than in the suburbs, most people find it’s just not a good idea to risk such encounters, which could easily turn from “questioning” to “disturbing the peace” arrests if the officer decides he doesn’t like your attitude.
3. Re-allocating the polling boths so that voters in Democratic precincts have to wait in line several hours to get to vote, but voters in Republican districts have no wait at all, and multiple booths from which to choose.
4. Having Republican operatives challenge every voter in a Democratic precinct, creating a backlog which increases the time the Democratic voters have to wait in line (many who are trying to vote before work or during their lunch hour simply give up and never have a chance to vote).
5. De-registering voters by using of illegal caging campaigns – in the process even deregistering veterans serving overseas who have a forwarding order to their APO postal address. Other more recent de-registration campaigns exclude those with convictions but who have had their civil rights restored (and are therefore eligible to vote), and recently targeting those who’s homes have been foreclosed.
6. Automated phone calls telling voters falsly telling them that their voting place has been changed, or (recently) slick publication of false absentee or mail-in ballots with the wrong address on the return envelope.
Against these large-scale concerted campaigns, the Republicans offer the tale of a handfull of teenagers who once slashed the tires of some Republican vans used to transport voters to the polls, and try to make you believe that both sides are equally guilty.
@6
Thank you for proving my point.
Maybe you should read the links you post?
Note that the recent raid on the Las Vegas ACORN offices were apparantly triggered by ACORN reporting – itself – the suspicious registrations. The Las Vegas authorites claimed that just because they turned in 50 bad registrations didn’t mean that there weren’t 100 other bad ones they didn’t turn in.
By that reasoning, a victim alleging rape would be investigated for prostitution, since there “might” be evidence the attacker paid the victim for the service.
The ridiculous thing is that the false registrations identified by ACORN to the authorities included some which listed the Dallas Cowboys lineup – people who obviously weren’t going to vote in Nevada.
3
Sure you are.
Way to NOT follow the story.
@4 FU2
“No testimony has been placed before the Court to suggest fraud” is not the same as ‘there was no fraud committed’.
Law enforcement is responsible, in our system of justice, to gather evidence and they failed to perform.
“He (McKay) explained in the interview that the threshold of evidence he was looking for was for an informant to come forward with an eyewitness account of a conspiracy to change the outcome of the election. Short of that, he would not even send FBI agents to interview election officials about illegal ballots.”
@11
Hard to gather evidence that doesn’t exist.
But let’s see… if Gregoire weighs more than a duck, that means she’s made of wood…
CNN covers the ACORN story, and only mentions briefly, in passing (at the end), that fake registrations do not equal fake votes. Amazing.
The one point they have is that the state still has to process all the fake registrations. You wonder how many legitimate registrations get lost or deleted because of all the fake ones in these cases.
One thing’s for sure, old white people are mad. Really mad. And for McCain it’s just politics as usual. Me second, country first, and all that.
Vote fraud is hard to prove therefore hard to prosecute.
ACORN Seattle settled for $25k and Dan Satterberg provided a quote to cover _his_ ass, in the upcoming election, with his base. “It’s too hard to prove, but I got some crackheads and one little fish” just doesn’t bring out the votes when you are a lone republican in a very blue town.
The main point you seemed to miss is that ACORN is in the middle of a lot of vote fraud all over the country. Eleven different states are investigating ACORN. It’s a pattern of fraud that is concerning.
Vote fraud shouldn’t be a partisan issue. Defending ACORN makes it look like there’s something to hide. Or maybe it’s Obama’s links to ACORN that might not pass the sniff test.
@12 Even harder to gather evidence if you don’t look at all.
This blog post that I referred to on Effin’ Unsound provides the best summary I’ve seen:
http://marcambinder.theatlanti.....troops.php
I’m incredibly pissed at these crybaby conservatives. After losing the 2000 election in a 5-4 vote and seeing the resulting Administration treating that like an absolute mandate, this is just a sign that they can’t tolerate it when it happens to them.
Why do we have to share a country with these assholes?
“best summary”? please, how about “press release.”
“Why do we have to share a country with these assholes?” And Yellow Pup complains about angry Republicans??
But to answer your question, somebody needs to pay taxes, build companies, and hire your dumb ass.
I’m always amazed at the small business owners that have a total disconnect between their business and their politics. They bitch about reams of paperwork, excessive regulation, and high taxes, but vote Democrat.
No sale. Explain why several ppl in WA. went to jail over this then you morons. ACORN should be prosecuted, fined, and disbanded.
Fomer moderate Republican (and now Independent) Lincoln Chafee:
Yes, back in 2000 the US had it made. Look at shit now. And you can chalk it up to eight years if incompetence, mismanagement, politicization of public services, and criminal malfeasance.
Let me clarify: REPUBLICAN incompetence, REPUBLICAN mismanagement, REPUBLICAN politicization of public services, and REPUBLICAN criminal malfeasance.
16 del
Oh, del. A U.S. attorney has to do a lot of stuff. And it’s important stuff. And doing important stuff for us all means that they don’t go chasing after absolutely unsupported allegations by partisan crackpots, even when the presidnet, his political advisors, and several US Congressmen pressure them to do so without presenting any evidence themselves.
There ARE real crooks to prosecute. If you’re a citizen or representative and you want a busy US Attorney to look into an allegation by you, you had fucking well better give him some reason to do so. Such reasons are called E-V-I-D-E-N-C-E. One person with an eyewitness story that holds up. One document. Something. Your guys have NOTHING.
19 Mark1
ACORN did not violate the law. Their paid registration gatherers did. They are contractors, and ACORN is not legally responsible for their actions.
If you don’t need ID to vote, why should you need id to register voters.
Another victim is going to be obama when all those new and registered voters he is counting on don’t come out and vote.
Dilbert,
Perhaps you need to slow down on the wingnut radio, there, Champ. You seem to be full of many misunderstandings.
“The main point you seemed to miss is that ACORN is in the middle of a lot of vote fraud all over the country.”
WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. ACORN has NEVER been accused of voter fraud. Voter fraud is when a person fradulently VOTES.
ACORN deals with VOTER REGISTRATION, not voting.
“Eleven different states are investigating ACORN.”
In fact, many of those cases are under investigation BECAUSE ACORN notified election’s authorities that their employees were making up registrations. (I.e. employees committing fraud against ACORN).
“It’s a pattern of fraud that is concerning.”
Yes and no. The “pattern” is that ACORN hires many, many down-and-out folks (which most of us normal folks view as a great public service); a small fraction of those employees will sit around and make up registrations instead of doing their job and getting people to register. When ACORN becomes aware of a cheating employee, they call in the authorities. They do so, in part, because of laws about the handling of voter registration froms. And, in part, because ACORN has had fraud committed against them.
As the Times article points out:
What is the ultimate danger of these fake registrations? The big threat is that they are a nuisance–they mess up the voter rolls.
The chances of such faked registrations actually being used for fradulent votes is exceedingly small.
Marvin Stamn,
“If you don’t need ID to vote, why should you need id to register voters.”
You DO need ID to vote, dumb ass. Man, you WingDings are fucking gullible!
The figures I’ve seen indicate ACORN has registered 1.2 million voters and a few hundred of those registrations were fraudulent. That’s on a par with the error rates of honest county and state election oficials across the nation.
Just an example of the type of people who are being stirred up by the Republican attempts to stir up anger against ACORN with false charges that they are engaged in vote fraud and Obama as an alleged terrorist, radical leftist, etc….
Source: Man threatened voter officials over tardy registration card
(A copy of the police report is linked in the story, along with the fellow’s mugshot).
@27 Another KKK slimeball in jail! Good place for ’em. They should misplace his bail until after the election.
@24
Darryl – Vote fraud starts with voter registration fraud.
And I admit I was wrong, it’s 12 states, not 11.
@11 McKay assigned this region’s four top FBI agents and his office’s two top prosecutors to the voting fraud investigation. They spent weeks investigating and reported back to McKay there was nothing that would support a criminal case. Case closed, Delbert.
Insisting on prosecuting where no crime has been committed is called “malicious prosecution” and guess what it’s a felony. The only criminals around here are you garbage-can-lid-pounding Republicans.
RR @ 30: There’s also the charge of “abuse of legal process”, whereby an otherwise lawful legal proceeding is used for an unjustified purpose.
I’m wondering if ACORN should consider filing a complaint regarding the Nevada raid, if it can be shown that it’s intent was to harrass the organization, disrupt it’s voter registration operations, and to discredit the organization with no real proof of wrongdoing.
ACORN, Ayers, ACORN, Ayers, ACORN, Ayers, ACORN, Ayers,ACORN, Ayers, ACORN, Ayers, ACORN, Ayers, ACORN, Ayers,ACORN, Ayers, ACORN, Ayers, ACORN, Ayers, ACORN, Ayers,ACORN, Ayers, ACORN, Ayers, ACORN, Ayers, ACORN, Ayers,ACORN, Ayers, ACORN, Ayers, ACORN, Ayers, ACORN, Ayers,ACORN, Ayers, ACORN, Ayers, ACORN, Ayers, ACORN, Ayers,ACORN, Ayers, ACORN, Ayers, ACORN, Ayers, ACORN, Ayers,ACORN, Ayers, ACORN, Ayers, ACORN, Ayers, ACORN, Ayers,ACORN, Ayers, ACORN, Ayers, ACORN, Ayers, ACORN, Ayers,
It’s all these right wing loons have left.
delbert,
“Darryl – Vote fraud starts with voter registration fraud.”
No, in fact, it is exceedingly rare to find voter fraud that begin with registration fraud.
Typical voter fraud occurs through people stealing ballots, voting on behalf of their dead spouse, felons not being cleaned from the voter rolls and, after release, being sent absentee ballots, voters voting by absentee ballot and at the polls, and, (a la Chicago in the 1950s-1970s) using existing registration records for dead or inactive voters to cast ballots.
None of those involve first submitting a fake registration. Furthermore, submitting fake registrations for “Micky Mouse” or “Micky Mantle” (as was done by workers trying to rip-off ACORN), certainly doesn’t lead to any reasonable path to voter fraud.
delbert,
Better yet, during the next election, try voting twice. Tell us what happens.
@30 Sources.
” … and the ones won’t count.” WTF?
” … Mickey Mouse will still be a cartoon character who cannot go to the local voting station …” The beauty of new improved voting is that Mickey doesn’t need to be inconvenienced by going to a ‘voting station.’ Like most of us, Mickey votes absentee. Dean Logan Jr. sends Mickey a ballot, or several ballots assigned to the several names Mickey and ACORN used on his registration forms, and Mickey mails them (registration forms, ballots) back. It’s efficient. It’s moderm. It’s progressive. It’s easy. Just ask Jane’s dog.
” … there’s very little way a few phony names …” Isn’t it amazing that Josh Marshall begins this sentence with the word ‘logically’? Josh seems to be logic-impaired, and is not on speaking terms with the English language. If Marshall is the best bullet you’ve got against ‘bogus’ GOP claims that ACORN’s fraud in Seattle is part of a pattern in at least 14 states, then our claims of fraud aren’t bogus. Obama’s ACORN is fraudulent, and it’s paying for its fraud with bailout dollars.
” … and the ones won’t count.” WTF?
It means the additional registrations for an individual will be ignored (or, used to update the old registration in some circumstances). The result will be a single registered voter.
“Just ask Jane’s dog.”
But Jane Blaugh wasn’t working for ACORN, was she? She was just a woman who personally decided to engage in registration fraud. She went to some lengths to illegally register her dog to vote, including putting utility bills in its name.
Anybody who wants to create multiple registrations (registration fraud) so that they can vote multiple times (voter fraud) is perfectly capable of doing so (just as Jane!). Fake IDs are not rocket science.
As it happens, it is MUCH MORE RISKY to engage in voter fraud in this way by mail, because you leave a paper trail that leads back to a physical mailbox at which the fraudster receives the ballot(s). Therefore, if suspicions arise, it would be easier to track down the suspect. Fake ID-based voter fraud would be far less risky voting at the polls.
But that is NOT was ACORN employees were doing. Rather, a small number of employees were submitting bogus paper work to take money from ACORN for work they didn’t do. It is highly unlikely that anyone would be able to exploit the Micky Mouse registrations. And there is no evidence that anyone has.
“If Marshall is the best bullet you’ve got against ‘bogus’ GOP claims that ACORN’s fraud in Seattle is part of a pattern in at least 14 states, then our claims of fraud aren’t bogus.”
Huh? Josh is a journalist, not a bullet against anything. The “bullet” is the fact that (1) ACORN has initiated many of the investigations, since they are also a party being harmed by these rogue employees, (2) there is no evidence than any bogus registration submitted through ACORN has been used for voter fraud.
“Obama’s ACORN is fraudulent”
If, by that, you mean, refering to “Obama’s ACORN” is, essentially a misleading characterization of ACORN and Obama, I agree.
“and it’s paying for its fraud with bailout dollars.”
Bailout dollars? What are you babbling about?
Man…you wingnuts really lose it over ACORN, don’t ya! :-)