Despite the fact that the state now faces an unprecedented $9 billion revenue shortfall—nearly 25-percent of what’s needed to maintain services at current levels—the Republicans and their editorial board surrogates are still demanding that Gov. Gregoire stick by her campaign rhetoric and reject any proposed tax or fee increase. So… what exactly would an all-cuts budget look like? Well, we’re about to find out.
This biennium it’s the Senate’s turn to lead off budget negotiations, and word in the Capitol hallways is that an all-cuts draft is being prepared for release early next week. I don’t have the details—they’re still being nailed down—but it isn’t hard to speculate. A hundred thousand people cut from the state’s Basic Health plan? 20-percent from higher education? Elimination of funding for community health clinics and many out-patient programs for the elderly and the disabled? Temporary closure of many state parks? A dramatic reduction in ferry service? Early release for non-violent prisoners?
Whatever it is, it’s going to be devastating, and it will be interesting to see the all-cuts proponents’ response. No doubt some will cynically charge that Senate Democratic Leaders are merely trying to scare voters, but it’s hard to see how a 25-percent revenue shortfall can result in anything but devastating cuts in basic services and elimination of whole swaths of our health and social safety net… especially with about half of the budget completely off the table.
About 45-percent of the state budget is dedicated to K-12 education, with a constitutionally mandated obligation to fund basic education protecting the bulk of its funding. Sure, the class size and teachers pay initiatives will be suspended, and a few other “extras” slashed or eliminated, but the state has little if any room to achieve substantial cost-savings within the biggest chunk of its budget. Add to that fixed costs in our prisons, courts, police and other law enforcement and public safety services, and we’re left with only about a third of our state budget that can possibly be considered discretionary.
Thus even if the self-proclaimed fiscal hawks are right that the $9 billion figure is exaggerated, the shortfall softened by a few billion dollars in federal stimulus aid and a billion dollars from our rainy day fund, we’re still talking about 40-percent cuts from the portion of the budget that can absorb any substantial cuts at all. And don’t kid yourselves that those cuts will be temporary. The federal aid and rainy day funds are one-off windfalls, and even when the economy starts to recover, it won’t likely recover fast enough or strong enough to make up the difference by the next biennium.
Yes, this budgetary crisis was largely precipitated by a sudden collapse in home sales and consumer spending, but these revenues will never return to former levels. The real estate bubble, like the dot.com bubble before it, is gone for the forseeable future, and with it the revenue growth that has long masked our state’s long term structural revenue deficit. The highly regressive retail sales and excise taxes on which we rely for the bulk of our revenues are levied on an ever shrinking portion of our post-industrial, service and information based economy: the sale of material goods. Thus unless we raise taxes, or dramatically restructure our tax system to meet the reality of the twenty-first century, state and local government will continue to shrink as a portion of our total economy, and with it, the services taxpayers have come to expect and demand.
When the Senate budget is released next week we will have an opportunity to examine one vision of Washington’s future… a vision much closer to that of Alabama or Mississippi than the one we hold now. It is a vision that will surely make many Republicans happy.
And it would be a shame if Democrats allowed the minority to achieve their vision by default.
Goldy, Goldy, Goldy–
Gregoire and the Democrats caused this shortfall and crisis by OVERSPENDING in good times…rather than banking the temporary excesses, Gov. Gregoire spent it, under pressure from the Union, KNOWING and publicly admitting it wasn’t sustainable. And she did it in the face of a recession.
Gov. Gregoire increased spending by $8 BILLION in good times…why can’t she decrease them now?? What if Gregoire had only increased spending by $2 BILLION during the bubble??
We wouldn’t even be having this discussion Goldy.
The Democrats SPENT us into this hole.
They need to CUT their way out.
A Campaign Promise is a Promise.
Goldy–
How many Gregoire staffer’s have total compensation packages (including benefits, pensions & paid timme-off) of over $100,000?
How many Gary Locke staffer’s feel into this category?
Why not put this on the table FIRST??
Have the Governor justify her Office Budget?
You continously dodge the issue of digging into the details of how current money is being spent.
Too hard for you to look at Salaries, Benefits, Pension and Paid Time-off??
Your MACRO approach to this Budget Goldy needs to come after digging into the details.
You want to stop with MACRO visions.
Tell it to the taxpayers.
How the money is spent doesn’t matter to you, does it Goldy?
Are you better off, and is Washington State’s economy better off, than it was four years ago? No? Things were better four years ago? Well, guess what? Washington State’s budget was 25% lower than it is now.
Don’t believe the hype. Reducing spending by 25% wouldn’t cause harm. Things were actually better when we were spending less.
If I remember correctly she had to hire 3000 full time employee’s to help her elections in a period of no growth and low tax revenues.
If she raises taxes she’s history.
Before we even go there we need to feel some pain here. So far no difference than last year. So let’s spreed the pain by going back to budget levels of 2007-2008
When the Senate budget is released next week we will have an opportunity to examine one vision of Washington’s future… a vision much closer to that of Alabama or Mississippi than the one we hold now. It is a vision that will surely make many Republicans happy.
Actually, both Alabama and Mississippi have STATE INCOME TAXES. The state tax systems in Alabama and Mississippi are far less regressive than the state tax system in Washington. And I am sure that Alabama and Mississippi are facing far smaller budget shortfalls than Washington, due to their broader state tax bases.
What Richard said. Alabama also has a fairly high sales tax.
@1 “Gregoire and the Democrats caused this shortfall and crisis by OVERSPENDING in good times”
Bullshit. Almost all of Gregoire’s spending was “catchup” spending to recover from the 2001-2002 Bush Recession and 10 years of GOP stonewalling on necessary transportation and other spending; and the current revenue shortfall is caused by the 2007-? Bush Depression.
It is time to cut really seriously in the grossly inflated spending. Every real Republican should support a 75% cut across the board. Once we have done that the finances will adjust in two years to a sustainable level. Roll up your sleeves.
Washington schools are funded pretty much the same as in other states — mostly from local property taxes. But Washington is unique in running these local revenues that go to local school districts through a state agency and the state budget, which makes it appear as though the school money is part of state spending, when in fact all the Superintendent of Public Instruction does is distribute the money. The actual state budget is only about 55% of the nominal budget figure, so the nominal 25% cut is actually a 45.5% cut in state services.
The answer here is simple — not easy — but simple. The legislature must be willing to cut EVERYWHERE. Because everywhere is where waste can build up, even in corrections, education and colleges. There is now reason for the legislature and Governor to go where political pressure would not have allowed them to go before. The state is facing a serious challenge, but it is also an opportunity.
It’s starting to get scary thinking about what will happen and the future for this country.
Washingtonians have given themselves a huge tax cut! Unemployment isn’t 25% in our state, nor has personal income (which is about $225 billion a year in normal times) dropped 25%. People simply quit buying stuff and are hoarding cash that used to go to the state. (Of course, I did this years ago; I pay peanuts in state taxes because I never buy anything.) This points out a problem with the sales tax: It’s voluntary to a considerable degree; you can avoid it by not spending.
No architect would erect a house on a sand dune; yet, the rightwing opponents of state tax reform would build our state finances for the next 100 years on the shifting sands of an unstable and voluntary tax, instead of taxing the income that’s stacking up in bank accounts, money market funds, and T-bills.
So be it. When the state has to release felons from prison, and they complain, the answer will be “no money.” When the state increases classroom sizes to 45 pupils, and they complain, the answer will be “no money.” When the state doesn’t plow the snow off Interstate 90 in winter, and they complain they can’t get to the ski areas, the answer will be “no money.” When Boeing asks for another $3 billion extortion payoff, the answer will be “no money.” You get my drift.
Assuming the Legislature raises taxes, what tax can they raise? Will the combined state/local sales tax go to 12% or 15%? What do you think that will do to retail sales in our state? What other choices do they have?
If any good is to come from this economic crisis, maybe it’ll be that people will finally realize our antiquated, patchwork, Rube-Goldberg state tax system DOESN’T WORK and it’s time to have a civic discussion about replacing it with something that does.
10 – You never were a very serious guy. You’ve made a living scoring cheap political points and serving up sleazy propaganda.
You know, the Eyman kind of opportunism that has been so damaging to this State.
1 Cyn
If that had happened you would be demonizing her today over a projected $3 billion shortfall.
In post-Prop13 California, they played the game of trying to replace taxes with “user fees”. That meant if you were on a road trip you might have to pay $9.00 to stop for 15 minutes in a state park so your kids could pee.
The answer is simple: raise revenues.
BTW, it’s really weird to hear all of you guys ignore the simple and easy-to-understand fact that this state has a revenue shortfall because of the current global economic collapse.
As for me, I don’t pay sales taxes! That’s because I don’t buy anything. I put every cent in the stock market. I’ve already made $100 today! My goal is to someday have my own hedge fund and make a billion dollars a year and pay no taxes just like those New York hedge fund guys. If they can do it, why can’t I? Yeah, I know our state tax system is unfair to people who work to buy stuff they need, but hey, I didn’t create our crumby tax system — I don’t even support it — I’m just going with the flow, like a leaf floating down a river.
Wow..
Why is it soooooooo difficult for LEFTIST PINHEADED KLOWNS to put ALL State spending under a microscope??
You KLOWNS are basically defending the indefensible….telling us there is no waste in government WITHOUT EVER LOOKING!
If you spent as much time looking at actually spending as you do defending the Bureaucracy, we might get somewhere.
Tax increases ought to be considered as an absolute LAST resort.
Elected Officials owe it to us taxpayers to cut out all the fat first….then come to us with the facts. Hasn’t happened. This Budget is the most lacking in sunshine EVER! WHile Democrats scheme behind the scenes with Dept. of Revenue folks to try and come up ways to take more $$ out of our pockets. Why the secrecy?? It leads to further mistrust.
Now is the ideal time to discuss & define Basic Services vs. Discretionary.
There is a WHOLE LOT of Discretionary spending in the Budget….including salaries & benefits & staffing.
We have been given the Big Government drug…becoming dependent on government more & more BECAUSE OF OVERSPENDING AND GROWING GOVERNMENT THE PAST 4 YEARS!!
It’s time to rein things in and the buck stops with Gov. Gregoire. Is she a leader…or a Union Shill??
This Budget will tell us.
@10 While we’re on the subject of “waste,” I may as well mention the trillions you guys blew on your recreational war in Iraq, your bank bailout that didn’t work, and the trillions more we’ll have to spend to clean up all the broken glass you Repubs left on the floor.
14. Daddy Love spews:
Wrong DL…you need a math lesson.
Had she kept spending increases down to $2 Billion, we would have that extra $6 BILLION in the Rainy Day Fund to cover this Biennium and several others which would have been at that level of spending.
The last Budget was UNSUSTAINABLE…by her own admission.
You are trying to use an UNSUSTAINABLE BUDGET as the benchmark for the upcoming Budget.
Think about it….if you can without your noggin exploding.
20. Roger Rabbit spews:
YAWN!
Total Leftist BS Rog…
Trying to marginalize and minimize the Washington Democrats action of passing UNSUSTAINABLE BUDGETS in the face of a recession.
Now, we are facing the predictable consequences.
@19 I think this is also a good time for private businesses to put THEIR expenses under a microscope and cut waste, so they can lower prices to consumers. After all, wages are falling, so why shouldn’t prices fall, too?
This is the right time to eliminate wasteful corporate spending on things like private jets, hunting lodges, executive bonuses, expense accounts, company cars, office redecoration, shareholder dividends, and interest payments to banks.*
But corporate America is doing things exactly backwards — they’re cutting wages and raising prices, instead of the other way around. This guarantees a shrinking economy, because workers who earn less have no choice but to spend less, and when prices for necessities like food keep going up, discretionary spending has to keep going down.
That adds up to a shrinking economy and companies going out of business.
* Nobody else is paying what they owe to banks, so why should corporations? Instead of paying their banks, they should welsh on their debts, and pass the cost savings to consumers!
@22 Sometimes you are positively amusing, even though you’re not trying to be.
It’s especially funny to hear Cynical Clown rant about “government waste” when the private sector throws money around like they’re printing the stuff in the basement.
Wingnuts want to spend less money on schools, highways, and libraries so they’ll have more money to spend on this
http://www.eventective.com/blo.....tibes1.jpg
and this
http://conservativeamerican.or.....nt1_lg.jpg
and this
http://www.instablogsimages.co.....e_5965.jpg
I’m curious why a Montana goat rancher cares about what we do in Washington.
@5
To give Democrats a state income tax would be like locking 10 kids in a old style candy store.
You would need to restock daily.
Democrats are not worthy to handle any more money. (what money) it’s gone.
25. Roger Rabbit spews:
ANSWER: I still own commercial and residential property and pay more taxes than most of you KLOWNS.
@25
Did you do your liberal donation to charity?
Hey Rog–
Your guy Obama was soooo impressive last night, viewers of his boring, talking points press conference finally woke up and the market is DOWN.
Every time Obama speaks, the Market drops.
Hmmmmmmmmmm.
Obama has accomplished one thing..scare and disenfranchise investors so his Big Government Agenda stands a chance. Clever.
@17 BTW, it’s really weird to hear all of you guys ignore the simple and easy-to-understand fact that this state has a revenue shortfall because of the current global economic collapse.
————
No. It has a immense budget deficit because government leaders (at all levels) ignored the warnings being issued regarding the housing and credit bubbles as far back as 2005. And if you didn’t believe the people issuing the warnings, there was always the compelling data:
[http://www.housingbubblebust.com/DQNews/Tracker.html]
as Paul Krugman has pointed out. Raising spending in this environment was inane.
And for someone who takes this view regarding your ex fellow Microsoft workers:
“Those are not my fellow workers. They work for temporary agencies. What those agencies decide to pay their workers is not my business, nor anything I can influence. But I did see many people I know laid off recently.”
now you want to pile on by raising their taxes, too? Too, too much, Daddy Loveless. But, then again, you still have your job.
Close down Evergreen State College and sell off the land and facilities. Privatize the Washington State Ferry system and the State-owned liquor stores and you have a helluva good start on closing the deficit.
So tell me, what government programs that you currently benefit from, are you willing to take a 40% cut in?
I still own commercial and residential property …
So you would support a 40% cut in police and fire department who respond to problems at your properties?
I can bet you would support a 40% cut in the government programs that regulate your commercial and residential property. I’m sure you are absolutely and totally honorable if we take your posts here as examples, but others like you will take the decreased ability to enforce regulations as an excuse to be much more unethical.
#31, why not just make churches pay taxes?
@30 You got something against buying opportunities?
John @10,
You can’t cut everywhere. You simply can’t. You can’t constitutionally make substantial cuts to basic education. Not in this state.
And quite frankly, even if you could, that doesn’t create the kind of state the majority of Washingtonians want to live in.
@32 How do you raise revenue by privatizing one of the state’s best moneymakers?
Simple logic says if you give the state’s liquor profits to private individuals, the state will end up with less, not more, revenue.
Deep thought:
Why is Barack Obama the first and only president ever to use a teleprompter?
@36 Gee, I dunno, Goldy. There were a lot of things I thought no one would ever do. You know, unthinkable things. But then Bush and Cheney did them. So I now believe that Republicans are capable of literally anything.
For example, I don’t think wingnuts like Ann Coulter and that guy in Federal Way (can’t remember his name) are kidding about putting liberals in concentration camps and executing us; and I don’t think guys like Glenn Beck and Chuck Norris are kidding about starting a civil war to overthrow our elected government. I beleive they’d do it if they could. That’s why I have a gun.
Liberals must arm!
What I don’t get is why these conservatives hell bent on turning American into some really bad third world country with all the social services and stability of Somalia, don’t just go move?
There has to be some conservative utopia of no taxes that wants them.
A lot of education funding is outside basic ed and is not protected. The Legislature is looking at cutting as much as $2 BILLION from K-12 education. That will result in thousands of teachers losing their jobs, which means students will be in overcrowded classrooms next year and they won’t get the help they need. Student programs will be eliminated (art, music, libraries, even math). There is no way we can cut that much from the schools budget without harming public education and our students. These cuts will set our schools back decades.
the Republicans and their editorial board surrogates are still demanding that Gov. Gregoire stick by her campaign rhetoric and reject any proposed tax or fee increase.
————
An on the characterization above, Goldy, here we go again. In your last post on this subject you characterized Gregoire’s position as “acquiescence” as though she had given in to someone else’s position. You’re being opaque or disingenuous. Gregoire stated forcefully, time and again, that it was bad policy to raise taxes during a recession. She led the way with this view in interviews and debates. It wasn’t rhetoric or your quaint characterization, “acquiescence.” And if her words regarding taxes didn’t mean anything, then which of her words can we believe?
People voted for her based on what they were told. At the time you didn’t issue any complaints, whatsoever.
As I said before, you’re just a little late to the discussion.
@38 Wingnuts might be dangerous if they weren’t idiots. Their idiocy is a good thing because it makes the rest of us safer.
30 cjs
It’s not a spending problem==it’s a revenue problem. This state’s dependence upon sales tax makes our revenue base regressive and far too sensitive to recession. It would probably help to levy something like a 75% tax on income above $1,000,000.
And workers at temporary agencies aren’t my fellow workers. You seem to be saying you would prefer ti had I lied about that. It’s a simple and obvious fact.
But what is not a fact is that I ever advocated raising their taxes. It ain’t so. Why do you lie about me?
29 Cyn
Gee, where were you Monday when the market was rising on the Obama bank plan? You’re selectivity surprises none of us.
It’s not a spending problem==it’s a revenue problem. This state’s dependence upon sales tax makes our revenue base regressive and far too sensitive to recession. It would probably help to levy something like a 75% tax on income above $1,000,000.
Nonsense. Some of the worse budgets in the country are in states with income taxes, California being Exhibit #1. California’s problems are spending related . . . just like Washington’s.
And workers at temporary agencies aren’t my fellow workers.
If they work with you at Microsoft, they’re your fellow workers, however you wish to characterize them. My guess is they’d have a different take.
But what is not a fact is that I ever advocated raising their taxes.
Well, if you tax “plan” is to raise taxes only on the wealthy, good luck. You’ll have to share your analysis.
@37
Just to say Good morning. Actually Mr.teleprompter is a first to tell a president what to say.
@44 I’m always amazed at teh stupid that comes out of Cynical. He never disappoints.
Hmm, Puddy has spam-filter issues or whatever, and umpteen sockpuppets, both left and right, disappear along with him. What’s up with that?
45 cjs
Nonsense. Some of the worse budgets in the country are in states with income taxes, California being Exhibit #1. California’s problems are spending related . . . just like Washington’s.
California has a ton of problems, virtually none of which it shares with Washington.
If they work with you at Microsoft, they’re your fellow workers, however you wish to characterize them. My guess is they’d have a different take.
And you don’t know a damn thing about it, do you?
Well, if you tax “plan” is to raise taxes only on the wealthy, good luck. You’ll have to share your analysis.
There you go again, lying about what I am saying. I have not said that I have a tax plan and have not presented one. You’ll know when I do, because at that point I will say that’s what I am doing. In the meantime, stick to what I say when you characterize my views.
But if you like, here is AN analysis.
46 T
Yeah, it’s like the president has not spoken exemporaneously, at leangth and in detail about complex issues, hundreds of times over the last two years. Just like all that never even hapapned. Oh, wait, it did.
Legalize pot and tax it. That should make a few billion in revenues just in Seattle alone!
The “klownservatives” would be GREAT as comic relief (timeymanjohncarlsoncoughcough) if these problems weren’t so fucking serious.
Serious question: How will the cuts be “devastating” when the state’s planned total revenue will be higher (granted, only 2.1%) than it was the last biennium. Where were the histrionics and teeth-gnashing about impending doom last biennium?
Anyone who says this is a revenue problem has a severe critical thinking deficit. Only when it comes to government spending do people suspend disbelief and buy into the assertion that a reduction from a ridiculously high budget number is a “cut”. The budget will be going up from the 2007-09 to the 2009-2011 biennium.
Have at it, Goldy. I’m seriously curious about your response. And, please keep it on point, and not resort to appeals to emotion as you always do.
Roger Rabbit @ 12
Washingtonians have given themselves a huge tax cut! Unemployment isn’t 25% in our state, nor has personal income (which is about $225 billion a year in normal times) dropped 25%. People simply quit buying stuff and are hoarding cash that used to go to the state.
Maybe a lot of the previous spending came from BORROWING? People would run up their credit cards to make purchases. In addition, people would borrow massively against their “home equity” to make purchases. People were spending considerably more than they were making, fueling huge sales tax revenues.
Now, people are spending LESS than they make. They are having to pay back credit cards, instead of borrowing against them. Their “home equity” has largely disappeared, nothing more to borrow against, and more of their income going to house payments (since they owe more). This is not exactly “hoarding cash”, but it certainly is lowered spending that reduces sales tax revenues.
Roger Rabbit and Mr. Cynical are probably the only folks lucky enough to be “hoarding cash” in this economy.
Some perspective, everybody. Governor Gregoire’s three budgets (the two that passed and the one proposed) would raise spending about 45% in just six years. Even if the next budget was the same size as the current one, state spending would STILL be 26% higher than it was six years ago. That’s about about what inflation plus population growth has been.
@49 California has a ton of problems, virtually none of which it shares with Washington.
The point is – and which you seem to be missing – is a slew of states have income taxes (41, to be exact) and a great majority of these have big budget problems. The notion that an income tax is a solution to our budget woes is nonsense. If you want to argue our current tax system is regressive, that’s one thing. But that’s a different discussion. The one here is about addressing our budget woes.
Get it?
And you don’t know a damn thing about it, do you?
This is not complicated. You work with these people, and they’re your fellow workers whether you like it or not. If you wish to characterize them differently so when they get canned or have their pay checks cut you don’t have to take a position, that’s up to you, Daddy “They’re Not My Fellow Workers” Loveless.
There you go again, lying about what I am saying. I have not said that I have a tax plan and have not presented one.
That’s just the point though, isn’t it? Your thinking goes as far as raising taxes on the wealthy, but you haven’t the slightest idea to what extent it would address our budget problems. Zilch. So for all you know raising taxes would require raising taxes on a lot more than the wealthy . . . including your fellow workers.
And the PI article you provided – which is taking a lot of heat – is not an analysis, nor is it intended to address our budget woes. Frankly, Bill Gates Sr should just convince Bill Gates Jr to write a BIG check to the state and save us all the legislative turmoil.
And speaking of writing checks to the state, have you?
John @55,
There you go again with with population plus inflation, which is not the metric which most closely tracks growth in demand for public services. From the WA State Tax Structure Study Committee report (a bipartisan committee chaired by Bill Gates Sr.):
WA has a tax structure with an LRE significantly less than 1.0, as evidenced by the fact that, according to the conservative Tax Foundation, state and local spending have shrunk from 10.4 to 8.9 percent of the economy over the past decade and a half.
Make the argument, if you want, that our state government should continue to shrink, indefinitely. But it is disingenuous to insist that it is growing, when by the only relative metric that really matters, it is not.
Goldy – 25% increase is just that. Keep spinning.
@32
John, why pick on Evergreen? Why not close and sell off Central Washington University instead?
Sure you could try and sell the ferry system, but would anyone buy it? Any private operator would run into the same issues the state has including an aging fleet.
Others have already pointed out that privatizing liquor sales would open an even bigger budget hole.
@57 WA has a tax structure with an LRE significantly less than 1.0, as evidenced by the fact that, according to the conservative Tax Foundation, state and local spending have shrunk from 10.4 to 8.9 percent of the economy over the past decade and a half.
———
That’s not “evidence of the fact,” Goldy. Can you provide the LRE for each state?
@59 Chris – the answer is to “starve the state coffers”. I am a proud Republican and support that ideology.
Conservatives are the last people we should listen to when it comes to managing public finances.
The self identified Reagan Republicans have cost this country roughly $36 TRILLION dollars of wealth and debt in the last 8 years.
Fact: When President Clinton left office we were paying down the national debt at a clip of $500 billion per year. At that pace we could have been debt free by now. In fact, Alan Greenspan warned George W. Bush not to pay down the national debt too fast because it would trigger runaway inflation. With a Reagan Republican congress and WH they spent the money President Clinton earmarked for debt reduction and squandered it. Plus, they borrowed enough to double the size of the national debt. Which stands at $11 TRILLION dollars.
Nearly $11 TRILLION dollars has been wiped out in real estate wealth due to the deregulation of credit banks and investment banks allowing companies like AIG to become TOO big to fail with their unregulated credit default swaps. Not Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac as those Culture of Corruption Reagan Republicans would like you to believe.
$14 TRILLION dollars of wealth has been squandered in the stock market because of the Reagan Republican led recession.
Real dollars lost = $36 TRILLION dollars of the Republican’s watch.
Under President Clinton’s policies we corrected the recession we inherited in 1992, balanced the budget, reduced the national debt, created 22 million+ jobs, and the Dow increased 275% in 8 years. Had George W. Bush and the Reagan Republicans in congress been able to just simply match President Clinton’s feats, the Dow would be around 29,000 points today. That’s roughly another $42 Trillion dollars in lost opportunity wealth.
Add in the $2.5 Trillion dollars of the Iraq War, and a few other misc. items and the philosophy of Reagan Republicans have cost this country in excess of $80 TRILLION dollars in 8 years.
Factor in the transfer of wealth to Saudi Arabia et al, because Reagan Republicans dragged their feet on solar, wind, and other alternative energy sources and that failed experiment of Reaganism cost this nation over $100 TRILLION dollars of real wealth.
It’s time to start purging this nation of these traitors. NOW! RIGHT NOW!
Has anyone realized that the Dow has gained roughly 18% since the President Obama’s Stimulus bill passed?
Yeah, Reagn Republicans the Just Say No, No, NO, NO, NO crowd.
They sound just like the snot nosed brats that they are.
Maybe we can cut the funds spent on privatized prisons.
When you have government money meeting a motive for profit, that’s where a lot of waste occurs.
Cut back on tax monies spent for privatized services.
Still want those cuts, wingnuts? We can cut the private profiteers out of the loop.
Assshat @ 60-
find it yourself dickwad…Goldy’s not your research assistant.
@63 Has anyone realized that the Dow has gained roughly 18% since the President Obama’s Stimulus bill passed?
————
Probably not many have. On Feb 13, the Dow closed at 7850, and later that night the stimulus bill passed. Today the DOW closed at 7749 – a 1.29% decline from Feb 13’s number.
@65
Oh, too bad. Somehow I have an idea he could use one for this data.
ass wipe at 66:
Are you so fucking stooooopid, that you think the Stimulus bill would have had an instantaneous effect?
The Dow closed at 6547 on March 9th.
You’re probably one of those morons who buys the next “get rich quick” scheme on late night TV.
Loser.
cjs,
You’re one of the Taliban’s useful idiots.
bin Laden is pleased with your faithful allegiance to al Qeada’s cause of destroying America.
@68
You said:
“Has anyone realized that the Dow has gained roughly 18% since the President Obama’s Stimulus bill passed?”
Nothing confusing about that claim – “SINCE the President Obama’s Stimulus bill passed” – which is flat out wrong. I mean, the DOW dropped for almost another month. Definitely not instantaneous, you got THAT MUCH right!
>>Make the argument, if you want, that our state government should continue to shrink
Jesus Christ, there you go again with the “shrink” crap. The state’s spending graph is an upward line. In what bizarre world is a continual increase defined as shrinking?
And, you take Bill Gates Sr.’s idea of the idea tax system as gospel? Why isn’t inflation + population growth a fair proxy for increased spending? Because it’s easy to understand and LRE isn’t? Pointing to a study chaired by an avowed fan of a state income tax isn’t very convincing.
Bottom line, the state is spending way more than it was a few years back when nobody (except you, I’m sure, Goldy) was bleating about “devastation”. Now, rolling spending back to the level of a couple of years ago will make us look like Alabama or Mississippi? As I’ve said before, get a grip.
Hmmmm? California? Proposition 13 ruined that States’ revenues.
No less a communist than Warren Buffet pointed out to Schwarzenneger that the taxes he paid on his Laguna Beach place were peanuts.
At least houses change hands at a reasonable clip and the tax rates return to something reasonable. Of course then house prices were jacked up beyond all recognition there because so many people never sold because their property taxes were kept so low.
And the distortions in the commercial real estate market were even WORSE if I recall correctly.
That’s what happens when the right wing are able to sell their something for nothing types of policies.
Just to make it easy for you, Goldy, here’s the definition of shrink: To become reduced in amount or value; dwindle.
Please choose your words more carefully. If you mean to go down as a percent of income, or whatever, say so.
@10
There’s a reason why you got shot down in flames when you ran for governor, you know.
@64
Now you’re talking.
55/57 I’m willing to admit John as a point. But it then begs the question of what are we to do? Inflation’s a given unless our current severe recession spirals into a full-blown recession, and except for those whose nipples get all hard at the prospect of seeing a Democrat-run administration “fail”, the side effects of the medicine would surely be worse than the disease.
Population? Well, we might possibly ask a million or two people to leave. Maybe some will, if things get sufficiently screwed up here. Most likely they’ll stay and whine along with the rest of us.
Ask everyone to to to the malls and pull out their plastic? Not likely, so expect sales tax revenues to stay depressed for a while.
Wait for the housing market to go nuts again, so there’s another bonanza in property taxes? Yeah, right.
So indeed, looks like the folks in Olympia have the onus on them to take the sharpest pencil possible to every little detail in the budget, to at least be able to say they made a good effort before they ask for more. Good luck to them–they’re going to need it, especially now that they’re doing it without Helen Sommers.
62 “Alan Greenspan warned George W. Bush not to pay down the national debt too fast because it would trigger runaway inflation.”
He sure didn’t have anything to worry about there, did he?
Bottom line is liberals are trying to propagate hatred towards people for just saving money by calling them “hoarders”. Similar tactic Stalin used calling certain people “wreckers” if they didn’t tow the party line.
An example: http://cidc.library.cornell.ed.....ll_ind.htm
We don’t need to propagate hatred.
I hate you plenty already. Now go kill yourself.
—————-
On topic: If only marijuana was legalized and taxed, that’d help some…..
On topic: If only marijuana was legalized and taxed, that’d help some…..
——————————————————-
Interesting concept. And #79, how much will that deliver in new “revenues”?
re 78: As I recall, Obama has been encouraging individuals to save money. The ‘hoarders’ are banking concerns that received stimulus funds to loosen credit, but are ‘hoarding’ the funds.
Get it — dillrod?
@81
If a bank received stimulus funds would one come to a conclusion they would have to loosen credit?
With the power we witness in congress this week. I truly believe they do not have the money yet.
We had more transparency under President G.W. Bush then under loser.
#68:
“Has anyone realized that the Dow has gained roughly 18% since the President Obama’s Stimulus bill passed?”
On Feb 13, 2009 the Dow closed at 7850. The Dow closed at 6547 on March 9, 2009. Mathematically, this is a 1303 drop. Today, March 25, 2009 the Dow closed at 7749.81.
So by your reckoning the Dow has “gained roughly 18%” but still 100.19 points below the president’s signing day.
@ 80.
Just watched Marijuana Inc. on CNBC last week.
The federal government spends $11 BILLION dollars a year just on marijuana eradication programs.
Add in the costs of law enforcement officers, the judicial system, and incarcerating people for pot and you wind up with a lot of money.
According to the documentary 75% of all the drug money crossing the US Mexico border is related to marijuana.
legalize it and 75% of your drug problem on the Mexican border dries up. Just like in the days of alcohol’s prohibition. And, we got NASCAR out of the deal.
Bottom line; legalizing marijuana will at least save billions upon billions from being squandered each year on enforcing a losing proposition.
Best case you’ll be able to tax it like beer. Although, for all the arguments people make about taxing it, most likely people will grow their own. Growing pot is no where near as hard as making whiskey.
But, it would spur new products for people to make and sell that would help people grow their own weed.
@81, can you show me where the president asked Americans to save money?
Recently the president told Americans to save their eyesight. March 1-7 was “Save Your Vision Week”.
Didn’t some dipwad say that privatizing the liquor stores, the Ferry system and Evergreen College would close the budget gap?
Yeah, a right wing dipwad said that.
84 – and hemp is such a useful fiber – you can do so many things with it – paper, textiles and on and on…
But the right wing continues to have its head so far up its useless ass!
@84
Sounds like a plan. So will anyone have the ability to visit the nearest Albertson’s, QFC, Safeway, Food Emporium and purchase some weed?
Will the Indian Tribes be allowed to sell it too? Or will they be able to sell their peyote?
Dildo @ 83.
The Dow has gained 18% since it hit the bottom of the Reagan Republican Recession.
SINCE the Stimulus became law and money started flowing again. President Obama has taken the economy out of its 90 degree nose dive with afterburners on full throttle.
Look, I can’t expect a conservative to be: A) honest, B) intelligent, C) patriotic, but, c’mon man, you guys are pathetic.
@ 88:
No not anyone. Only legal adults. Just like booze.
And, only pot. OK?
Slow enough for you?
Would you like me to read My Pet Goat for story time???
Sheeeeeeez
@89
Could you change my batteries now? I used your numbers sir. Where is my comment worthy of that attack?
Thank you.
@90:
You never answered my question. Since the American Indian Tribes have sovereign federal rights, if they grow their own can they sell it? What if they make it special and lace it with peyote?
See, that was simple @90.
59. Chris Stefan spews:
Perhaps John picks on Evergreen because it is the only PUBLICLY FUNDED School in the Univverse to give out degrees in Ecology with no hard science curriculum required.
In other words, IT’S A USELESS MONEY PIT CREATING DIMWITTED ACTIVISTS!
Get rid of it.
You beat me to the punch cjs.
C’mon GBS, you are better at math than that!
I know you are…you probably just copied that number off some Leftist Pinhead Klown Blog without realizing that source of info is almost always WRONG!
ArtFart spews:
As it should be AF!
The reason we are in this mess is a lack of discipline and “sharp pencil” during the good times…dontchaknow!
“So will anyone have the ability to visit the nearest Albertson’s, QFC, Safeway, Food Emporium and purchase some weed?”
I’m pissed they don’t sell cigars any more.
Interestingly enough, there’s a debate going on in Nevada over taxing brothels, which are legal in quite a few counties. The state government’s getting as desperate to find money under rocks as ours, but there’s a faction (which includes the governor) that’s so opposed to legalized prostitution that they’ll block any measure to tax the trade, because they don’t want to admit that it exists!
@89 The Dow has gained 18% . . . SINCE the Stimulus became law
—
The stimulus became law on Feb 17. The market ran STRAIGHT DOWN from there for three more weeks.
No wonder NOBODY else realizes that the DOW’s gained 18% since the stimulus package, since in fact it’s barely budged from that date.
80 “Just like in the days of alcohol’s prohibition. And, we got NASCAR out of the deal.”
Oh, thanks. Now I’m stuck with Robert Mitchum inside my head singing Thunder Road…
97. ArtFart spews:
Hey AF, didn’t you know the biggest whorehouse in Washington State is the Democrat Legislature and Governor’s Mansion!
Tax them whores!!
@94 You beat me to the punch cjs.
C’mon GBS, you are better at math than that!
——–
I think if he brushed up on the complex subjects of DATES and the DOW, and the meaning of words like “since” he’d be just fine. Just a little remedial training and he’d be RIGHT back in the saddle here on HA!
@78
The bottom line is: you’re spewing crackpot craziness.
For those who believe that government is bloated and that waste exists everywhere, do you honestly think it is the waste that will get cut? No. There won’t be any oversight about who gets laid off in this mess. Good people, the people who do the work you take for granted, will be gone. Undoubtedly along with the sweeping layoffs will be those who covered for the time-wasters.
And for those of you who think you know Evergreen, kiss my fat Indian ass.
Cut the F out of Government, they should be held to the cost of living. No one gets their forever pensions anymore, cut them out. Give them all a 401K.
a 25% cut would not even be noticed in this state govenment.
Lay the bastards off.
An $1100 one year hike in property taxes and they are F’n out of money…
Yeh Right,…..Talk to Margaret the Tax happy Haugan about her work to bring down Island County Property taxes, and you will see………………Nothing!
over 110,000 in property taxes paid by just one payee and they are out of money……Please…….
Richard Pope spews:
Roger is hoarding carrots.
Me, I could see the writing on the wall long ago to get debt-free, sell stocks & real estate and stay liquid to make short-term market plays.
This President Obama has done nothing but scare investors with his chest-thumping “tax the rich” talk. The Dems in Congress are worse. The “political risks” to investors is too great in this Administration and with almost no balance in Congress. Washington State is the same. People aren’t buying or building.
The Democrats want to tax, borrow, squander and create bigger government.
They bloviate anti-business rhetoric.
No thanks.
I’ll just keep my powder dry.
It’s MY powder to keep dry….you can call it hoarding, I call it smart investing!
103. Lauramae spews:
\
YUCK!
We ALL pretty much know idiots that are cranked out of Evergreen. Wasn’t Rachel Corrie an Evergreener?
‘nough said.
108 What if she was? Does it give you a hard-on to think about how she died, or do you just own a bunch of Caterpillar stock.
Either way, fuck you.
‘Nough said.
Mr Cynical shows everyone again his vast stores of “knowledge.” Or at least his ability to parrot big, fat idiot talk show types. He’s proud to be a Philistine. Mr Cynical, G.E.D.
Hey AF–
Did Evergreen teach Rachel to stand in front of a Caterpillar?
She cultivated her extreme ideology from somewhere, didn’t she?
Actions have consequences.
The LEFTIST PINHEADS are fueled by anger, emotion and self-righteousness…..not a good formula for making measured decisions that consider all potential consequences.
Lauramae-
PLEASE don’t talk about your fat ass anymore….and then call others big-fat idiots.
Your problem with cellulite and fumunda cheese is likely next…it’s more info than any of us (left or right) can bear.
Mr Cynical. You make the baby jesus cry
lauramae – no god I would place any faith in would allow the likes of Mr. Klynical to walk by his/her side.
I wonder what did I say to become trapped?
Let me try again.
Didn’t work.
@113 I have an answer somewhere trapped.
@103, you said:
__________________________________________________
And for those of you who think you know Evergreen, kiss my fat Indian ass.
__________________________________________________
I see above Lauramae you told everyone who disagrees with you to kiss your fat Indian ass.
What type of Indian is it?
Publicans are against deficits except when it’s their turn to spend the money. Nobody is falling for that shit. Nobody.
113. lauramae spews:
Your body is a temple lm. You abuse it with food and no exercise. Shame on you…and shame on you for forcing your flabby ass on us!
Don’t you love it when child molesters like CYNCYN pretend to be Christians? Gives me a chuckle.
ByeBye–
you are the original member of the Rusty Pinhead Hall of Shame AND have received a lifetime achievement award for vulgarity and stupidity all rolled up in one dirtball LEFTIST PINHEADED KLOWN. Well done loser.
113 Don’t bother, Lauramae. Cyn couldn’t possibly understand.
Right wingers believe that Jesus died on the cross just so they can destroy anything that stands in the way of their ambitions, and kill anyone they don’t like, and then claim that they’re “forgiven”.
Perfect Job opportunities await Terrorist released in USA. Wanted 250 butchers
Terror inmates may be released in US: intel chief
President Barack Obama’s intelligence chief confirmed Thursday that some Guantanamo inmates may be released on US soil and receive assistance to return to society.
“If we are to release them in the United States, we need some sort of assistance for them to start a new life,”
http://www.breitbart.com/artic....._article=1
Why is there a 9 Billion dollar shortfall?
1 Gregoire and her gang went on a spending spree
and
2 People quit spending because they are losing their jobs at the highest rates in history, and while Gregoire lifted the hiring freeze and is back raising the price of government again well beyond it’s means.
Goldy is full of Shit thinking all these laid off people can afford all the new Gregoire fees, taxes and the like.
Hell I just sold my $100k boat to a person in Oregon, it will leave this state and no sales tax will be paid, no licensing fees will be paid, and no insurance fees will be paid to Washington state.
IGA, QFC, and Thriftway’s near me are shutting down. Laying off everyone.
While she grows her Gestapo government even more every day with tax collectors, financial investigators,and the like.
All Hail the liar Queen Christine, for she will not stop till every business in this state has failed.
@86
What he said was: turning over the liq.control board ,stores and hire new employee’s.
Iclude the lottery too.
The State should never been in the Sin bussiness.
@86
What he said was: turning over the liq.control board ,stores and hire new employee’s.
Include the lottery too.
The State should never been in the Sin bussiness.
Gassy shiteforbrains @ 123
How’d that Rossi cheerleading work out for you?
The Fool @ 125
I think public control of the alcohol business has made this state a better place to live in. I come from California where there’s an ugly liquor store on just about every corner which are magnets for crime. When other drugs are eventually decriminalized public control is the way to do it – the drugs can sold at a reasonable price, their quality regulated and a tax can be collected at the point of sale which means lower taxes overall for people who don’t care much for drugs like me.
People like drugs whether they’re alcohol, prozac or marijuana but a flourishing black market in the sale of drugs leads to waves of violent crime and an overcrowding of prisons.
I’d rather see it under public control like its done in other countries.