This is shaping up to be a pretty historic week for drug law reformers in Washington state. On Wednesday, the State House will be holding a hearing on not just a marijuana decriminalization bill, but also a full legalization bill that uses the state liquor stores for regulated sales of marijuana to those over 21. To coincide with that bill, a group called Sensible Washington has filed a ballot initiative to remove all criminal penalties for adult marijuana possession, manufacturing, and sales. If that collects enough signatures, it will be on the ballot this November. If it passes, it would essentially put the onus on the legislature to come up with a system of regulating sales.
In a previous post, I laid out my arguments for why the legislature should be working to pass a bill that legalizes and regulates marijuana. A number of the reasons for doing so are economic ones. Arguing against that rationale – sort of – is Bill Virgin in the Tacoma News-Tribune:
Was there ever a miracle drug to match marijuana? A few puffs on a legalized, regulated and taxed joint, and you’ve not only closed the billion-dollar budget holes faced by government but you’ve eliminated the economic driver behind much of the criminal activity plaguing the globe.
That’s a bit of hyperbole, but there’s no question that there are economic benefits to having a legalized, regulated market, as well as taking a big chunk of income away from criminal gangs (largely based south of the border in Mexico). Throughout this editorial, though, Virgin seems eager to over-inflate the claims of drug law reformers as a way of discrediting them. I guess it’s easier to do that than to actually argue the points directly.
Decriminalization, legalization, whatever the term du jour, it’s all the fashion these days in political circles. The new mayor of Seattle is in favor of it. Legislators from the Puget Sound region have introduced a legalization bill (one of the sponsors was quoted in an Associated Press dispatch as saying she wants to start a “strong conversation” on the topic; in modern political parlance, “conversation” usually means hectoring monologue or lecture). In Oregon, several efforts are under way to get a measure on the ballot to legalize weed.
All of this isn’t happening in a vacuum though. The damage of marijuana prohibition has become far too massive to ignore. That’s why it’s become the “topic du jour”. Only about 10% of the American adult public uses marijuana, but over 40% want it legal. It’s not an argument about wanting to use marijuana. It’s an argument about economics, public safety, personal freedom, and protecting young people. Attempting to keep illegal a plant that 25 million people like to use for intoxication is harming this country in a number of ways. Having a “conversation” about it doesn’t become a “hectoring monologue” unless the other side has nothing to counter it with. And that’s exactly what’s happened with this debate, as is demonstrated by the rest of Virgin’s editorial.
We’ll set aside for another day discussion of the health and societal implications of legalizing marijuana, other than to note the contrasting trends of allowing, even encouraging, increased use of one combustible commodity while smoking another substance – tobacco – seems headed for its own Prohibition.
What’s amazing here is that Virgin completely misses a major point wrapped up in that contrast. Tobacco smoking, despite being legal, has seen significant drops over the past generation, despite being perfectly legal. The notion that the legality or illegality of a drug is a major determinant of how often it’s used is a complete fallacy, as one can easily see by comparing marijuana use rates in Holland (where it’s legal) and marijuana use rates in the United States (where it’s illegal but far more common). In fact, he makes that error right here in the next part, where he assumes that legalization equals increased drug use, even though tobacco has shown an opposite trend.
Also up for debate – sorry, “conversation” – is the notion that much of the real world is as sanguine about the impact of increased drug use as the chattering classes seem to be (try convincing your average parent, especially those with teenagers, that society’s collective shoulder-shrug toward drug use is a good idea).
Or maybe he could ask Rick Steves – who has several teenagers of his own – why he’s holding forums around the state in order to have this conversation about legalizing marijuana. Protecting children from marijuana might actually be the most compelling societal reason for establishing a regulated system of marijuana sales for adults. It takes the distribution out of schoolyards (where high schoolers repeatedly tell pollsters it’s easier to buy than alcohol) and puts it in regulated stores where people’s IDs are checked. If there are any parents out there who aren’t sure about the effect of “shoulder-shrugs” towards adult marijuana use should again look to Holland, where despite their famous tolerance of adult marijuana use, far fewer young people use it there than here in the United States.
But we can certainly have a “conversation” about the economic arguments made to justify legalization – and dispense with them.
No. 1: A little legalized vice is worth it if it pays the bills. Think of all the revenue to be had by taxing marijuana. If it seems as though there’s an echo in here, there is. You’ve heard this argument before – with state lotteries. It might be easier to list the states in which the lottery wasn’t sold as the permanent answer to the problem of how to fund public education.
It wasn’t. Marijuana sales-tax revenue won’t be either. Even if you believe the estimates of the marijuana trade currently, it’s a reach to believe all those sales will automatically transfer to legal channels.
Virgin is again attempting to overstate the case that the supporters of the bill are making. The regulation and legalization bill isn’t promising to save the state economy at all. In fact, it directs the vast majority of the tax revenue to be put towards drug treatment. So even if you’re inclined to believe that legalization would lead to increases in drug abuse for people of the state (I don’t believe that would happen, but it’s not something that can be absolutely proven at this point), the amount going towards treatment would also increase in parallel. This bill doesn’t aim to save school funding or transportation funding or any other specific shortfall – just drug treatment.
The bigger point that he misses, though, is that the vast majority of the economic benefit that comes from bringing marijuana prohibition to an end comes from savings within the criminal justice system. Decriminalization alone would save $16 million. And according to Harvard Economics Professor Jeffrey Miron, $12.9 billion in criminal justice costs would be saved nationwide by ending marijuana prohibition. Virgin only addresses this in passing later on in the editorial, even though it’s far more central to the cost saving argument than tax revenues. Also not mentioned is the potential for a regulated market in what’s already one of the state’s most lucrative cash crops to create many more jobs.
Furthermore, sales may not be nearly as large as hoped for. No matter how blissfully stoned happy faces proponents try to slap on packages of legal marijuana, and the use thereof, cannabis consumption will continue to carry some societal opprobrium.
I’m not even sure how to respond to something this silly. Is he suggesting that people will be afraid to show their face in the state liquor store to purchase some marijuana because they’ll be afraid that the people buying whiskey and vodka will sneer at them with an air of condescension? Seriously?
And those who continue to indulge may decide they’d rather smoke unregulated, untaxed, cheaper weed.
This is likely to be true for (my guess) about 5% of marijuana users. For starters, growing high quality marijuana is not as simple as most people imagine it to be. I expect that in a regulated environment, people will be able to get very good marijuana at very reasonable prices and not find the taxes to be an excessive burden (far less of a burden than tending to your plants all the time). People who’ve grown in the past – and medical users who consume a lot – will likely continue to keep their private grows going, but I have doubts that it will ever be any more popular than what home-brewing beer is to the overall alcohol market today.
No. 2: Like marijuana use, we can stop with marijuana legalization. Marijuana may not be the gateway to harder stuff for all users, but legalized vice rarely pauses in the doorway. To understand why this is so, let’s go back to the example of legalized gambling, where states are already engaged in an unending, unwinnable race to the bottom.
The next state over introduces a lottery? Fine, we’ll boost the stakes and promote ours more heavily. They match us? Fine, we’ll expand to more exotic forms of gambling. Them too? Fine, we’ll opt for casinos, slots at horse-race tracks, slots wherever there’s a sucker with money to drop. Which might provoke our neighbors to leapfrog us with ever more prevalent gambling. Which we’ll somehow have to meet or exceed.
Or we can make a comparison that makes sense – to hard liquor – where we don’t compete with other states in order to get our citizens to consume more of it. Demand for marijuana exists for the same reason that demand for hard liquor exists, and neither needs to be drummed up to generate excessive revenues. If we’ve been able to avoid this trap for alcohol for so long, why can’t we similarly avoid it for marijuana?
No. 3: Look at what drug-motivated crime is doing not just in the U.S. but around the world. If you legalize marijuana, you take away the profit motive behind drug-related crime. This is the big one, an argument compelling even to those uncomfortable with the “smoke ’em if you got ’em” attitude toward marijuana. Making the argument all the more attractive is the money spent on and supposed futility of the War on Drugs.
Virgin finally touches on the money-saved-in-law-enforcement-costs argument he seemed eager to avoid in the first two points. Although I’m not sure what’s “supposed” about the futility of the War on Drugs. We’ve spend trillions of dollars trying to eliminate drugs from our society, have more people (by far) locked away in jails for drug use than any other country on the planet, yet Americans do more drugs than any other country on the planet. What part of that causes one to doubt its futility? It’s the definition of futility.
Attractive, but not valid. Crime gangs may be happy to walk away from the marijuana trade, a bulky, low-value commodity, in favor of other higher-value, easier-to-make-and-move substances.
I have absolutely no idea what he’s basing this on. Marijuana constitutes about 60% of the revenues that Mexican organized crime groups rake in every year. This isn’t some “bulky, low-value commodity” to them, it’s their cash cow. If Mexican drug gangs would be “happy to walk away from the marijuana trade” for pricier drugs like meth and cocaine, then why are they trying so hard to set up grow operations throughout Washington state in parks and other forest lands?
They are not, however, likely to throw up their hands, say “You win, you’re too smart for us,” and walk away from a lucrative trade they’ve cultivated, unless you’re prepared to legalize the sale of everything that the populace might turn into a mind-altering material.
Sure, and that’s a conversation that may need to be made later. Few people are arguing that more addictive drugs like cocaine and meth should be treated like marijuana, but there are ways (through better treatment, which the legalization bill would provide) to reduce demand for those drugs right now. But even without that, removing 60% of their revenue by ending marijuana prohibition is a significant dent in their ability to operate.
And even then, that won’t chase crime away. Organized crime can make a healthy business out of illicit traffic in legal-and-regulated items – like cigarettes, in which there’s been a lively tax-dodging trade for decades.
I think it’s finally time to turn the tables and ask Virgin if he’s high. Does he really believe that Mexican drug gangs can replace the billions in lost revenue from the end of marijuana prohibition by selling cigarettes to people for less than what they cost with taxes? Wow. Whatever he’s smoking should sell real well if HB 2401 passes.
(Since the unhappy experience of alcohol’s Prohibition always gets tossed into the debate, we ought to consider why illicit traffic in alcohol didn’t persist after repeal. Here’s a theory: Alcohol is bulky, heavy and not easy to produce at a quality level in sufficient quantities to slake Americans’ thirst. The commercial ventures that legally produced beer, wine and spirits before Prohibition went back to doing so after repeal. Production of marijuana and similar items was never done on a legal, commercial scale.)
Um, no. The reason that illicit traffic in alcohol didn’t persist after the repeal of prohibition is because (drum roll, please!)…people prefer not to buy intoxicating substances from shady characters when they have a legal way to buy them. My lord, this guy has a regular column on business and economics in the News-Tribune?
The forces pushing for marijuana legalization will do so with arguments ranging from personal freedom to lack of harm to individuals or society at large. There are cases to be made on both sides of those debating points. But when it comes to the economic rationalization for legalizing and taxing the tokers, the proponents’ case is filled with bottles of another well-known American cure-all elixir – snake oil.
What’s arguably the saddest thing about Virgin’s editorial is that there likely won’t be a more coherent attempt to argue against the idea of ending marijuana prohibition all year. And in fact, this was only a half-assed attempt to do so. He essentially built up a strawman of a drug law reformer who was making over-inflated claims in order to have something – anything – to argue against. The regulation and legalization bill doesn’t promise to balance the budget, and it doesn’t promise to dismantle Mexico’s drug cartels with one swoop of the Governor’s pen. It only aims to get us closer to those goalposts, while expanding the rights and freedoms of Washington residents and better protecting the safety of our children.
SJ spews:
Lee ..
Good and balanced post!
Actually, Virgins’ imnge of an MJ war of the states is rather funny. Could this be the start of a new Civil War? Would Cascadia threatenb to secede if the Feds tried to intervene in our regional culture?
I am not just trying to be humorous. Maybe it is a marketing opportunity? Imagine Oregon-Washington-BC competing for tourist based on the creativity of local entrepreneurs? Imagine combining wine country tours (an under promoted opportunity now) with gentle pot cafes on the sunny side of the cascades?
Imagine the Garlic Festival, but put it in Port Townsend! Sure mass marketed reefers may be available everyplace, but I suspect there would be a real attraction to a tie-in of NW mystique and pot. (Not a bad brand name either).
BTW, I think your comparison to how we manage cigarette smoke was right on.
mikek spews:
Virgin should smoke a couple of bowls and clear his head. Then, maybe he wouldn’t write such tripe.
Chris Stefan spews:
Virgin also misses that even if marijuana is heavily taxed and regulated the legal stuff is likely to be far cheaper than black market marijuana is today. The street price of marijuana is higher than imported Italian white truffles or saffron. Due to the black market there are few large-scale grow operations and little automation, at least as compared to what is seen even with organic vegetables and hydroponic tomatoes. Furthermore with a state store system as is likely to happen in Washington marijuana is only going to be passed through a couple of hands before being bought at wholesale prices by the state. There isn’t the large chain of middlemen that need to be supported in the black market.
Alki Postings spews:
Facts don’t matter to folks who think a plant is “immoral”. These folks attribute supernatural qualities of evil and moral intention to plants, so arguing facts and using reason won’t work. It’s like trying to “reason” with someone on why Noah’s Ark couldn’t have happened. Doesn’t matter how much logic or fact you have on your side, their argument is simply magic, superstition. If you “believe” pot is magically “bad” (in a way cigarettes and vodka aren’t) then that’s the end of the conversation. You can’t argue someone out of a “belief” with facts. They’re not using reason to begin with. Even with arguments like this post, it sounds very reasoned, but then you come down to the very bottom of the arguments, the why marijuana is different than vodka or a pack of Camels…it’s because pot is just…well….bad…somehow…just more ‘evil’ in a way the other products aren’t I guess.
Besides is there anything more funny that watching the “I want small government, get government out of my life, more personal freedom, less intrusive government” endless argue for more laws to make plants illegal, more laws to regulate marriage and how you can have sex with. It’s annoying and frustrating to try to counter arguments of magic with logic, but it’s FUNNY somewhat just watching Republicans argue that the government should control what I smoke, who I have sex with and who I can marry, THEN have a little rally saying they want less intrusive small government. LOL
SJ spews:
@4 magi
I think the real wobbliness of Virgin’s argument is that a social decision to decriminalize marijuana is going to raise questions about decades of propaganda, bad science, and magic .. preached by the government. The ghastly image of Bancy Reagan’s No campaign is, in people’s mind, no different then the tobacco ads done by actors with lung cancer.
The govt really needs to get out of the magic business! That is why I often criticize Lee’s celebration of mj as a miracle drug. Magic is good .. when you know it is an act.
lebowski spews:
@5……you may have a good point regarding marijuana.
Another interesting observation:
SJ wrote:”….decades of propaganda, bad science, and magic .. preached by the government”
One could say the same thing about the man-made globall warming scam..
ArtFart spews:
To approximately quote Emmett Watson,
“Pot is all around us, and so is hypocrisy. If you doubt it, use your nose.”
rhp6033 spews:
I had to laugh at the discussion based on the premise that illegal liquor sales vanished with the repeal of prohibition.
As someone who grew up in a state with a long and storied history of home made liquor, I can tell you that even into the 1970’s (when I left to move to the Seattle area), there were still practitioners of the art of making “white lighting”, and enough customers to keep them busy.
It was a small market, to be sure, especially in comparison with the legal market. But there were just enough people who preferred the taste of the liquor they grew up with, or the thrill of dealing with an illegal substance, or the daring to consume something which might make you blind, to keep the stills going. For the makers of the liquor, it was more of a pride in preserving a art form which had been handed down for generations.
But it was a sufficiently small market that it was ignored by most people. Even the “Revenoors” didn’t bother them much anymore. But now that the feds can use thermal imaging to locate moonshine stills in the hills at night, it’s probably pretty easy to shut them down if they want to.
By the way, my Assistant Scoutmaster (and later Explorer Advisor) gave me some rather peculiar driving lessions when I was 16. It seems he used to run ‘shine as a teenager. As an adult he was an auto mechanic.
ArtFart spews:
@8 Cue Robert Mitchum singing the theme from Thunder Road…
sj spews:
@6 Lebowski
Actually THAT mess is a good example.
No scientist I know questions man made global warming.
A good example of a non story (to me as a scientist) is the claim of “climate gate.” I have read the purported smoking gun emails. My reaction? I laughed. Science is , above all else, human. What Faux and friends portrayed as fraud was a fairly usual thing that happens when the community ios trying to develop an idea but needs to push aside distractions that really are not good science.
A great example of this was the conflict between LaMarque and Mendell. LeMarque claimed to account for inheritance by genetic transmission of traits acquired by adult animals and plants. This idea failed the rigor used by Mendell but appealed to the Communists because it was consistent with “Marxist Science.” Stalin repressed Mendellian genetics and wasted vast sums on a poseur named Lysenko. The result was naother disaster for soviet farming.
The oddest thing about this story is that LeMarque was right! There is a way we can and do transmit experiences, we call that epigenetics. The effects of epignetics are much smaller than those of Mendelian genetics. The Medellians originally downplayed epigentics because it was a distraction from gene theory. The glory of science is that our “method” inevitably required a revision to account for discrepancies form Mendel.
The fault here lies with the Bushies. They behaved like Stalin. Bush appointees mangled and manacled science for their own unpatriotic, short sighted goals.
That was a very painful experience for American science. If the west had, like the Commies, insisted that Mendel (and Darwin) were wrong because biblical science or some other magic said so, we would have never had the amazing progress of the 20th century.
I understand genetics. I also live in and understand the culture of science. I trust my colleagues who know more than I about atmospheric physics.
Michael spews:
Virgin’s an embarrassment to our local (tacoma) paper. No, wait, I take that back. Our local paper is an embarrassment.
ahem spews:
could there possibly be a longer, wonkier, post?
suggestions:
1. don’t bury the lead.
ahem spews:
could there possibly be a longer, wonkier, post?
suggestions:
1. don’t bury the lead.
ahem spews:
could there possibly be a longer, wonkier, post?
suggestions:
1. don’t bury the lead. Get to the point. Put the dollar amount saved per household in Washington State up top. This amount …$175…$375…whatever it is — should be in the short ‘n’ sweet message for this initiative campaign. “We can save $375 per household in taxes thru stopping governmental waste known as the so called war on drugs!”
2. Just PLEASE tell us what legislators are on board and what ones are not with the decrim. bill and the initiative. Our digesting the long wonky essays and repeating their verbiage to the unconverted does not work. Our pressuring our so called liberal state legislators to actually be liberal and get behind decrim. does work. But please, somebody, put up a scoreboard and tell us who they are !
3. In that cost thing figure out a way to make the removal of drug gang profits a number, too. “We ended $4 billion in gang profits in Prohibition, and the result was safer streets in Chicago. We can end $15 billion in drug cartel profits if we adopt this bill, resulting in safer streets in Yakima.”
“Murders declined by 300 a year in some towns when we ended prohibition of alcohol. We can’t predict but it is likely we may see a similar drop in crime if we end prohibition today.”
“Let’s take the profit, out of crime.”
4. Twenty e mails from constituents to a legislator plus three meetings will do more to produce change than the next 1000 1000-word policy posts you post.
What legislators are not on board? Politics is not rocket science, but first you have to understand….it’s not policy either.
sj spews:
ahem
This is interesting.
I suspect that a lot of the support is coming from people who are romantically inclined to weed.
OTOH, one thing I think Virgin is correct about is that painting legalized MJ as the messiah to all problems is a bad thing .. even if all that means it that the topic becomes easy pickings for the antis.
I wonder if a good, hard assed petition might not be worth writing and circulating via the web? I actually think a lot of the scientific community would buy into such an effort as well. For that matter, doesn’t American “Tobacco” still own St. Michelle? Imagine their interest in an elite product?
Roger Rabbit spews:
If you truly want to legalize marijuana, then make sure you repeal the forfeiture laws, so the cops can’t confiscate your car, home, RV, boat, or farm for growing/possessing/using a legal substance. This is, you know, a favorite way of augmenting police budgets and acquiring nifty sports cars and SUVs for driving to donut shops.
TJ spews:
Keep dreamin’ Lee!
TJ spews:
@16:
Thankfully they are are working on a cure for delusional senility. I suggest you volunteer to be a test subject. Poor old geezer!
Politically Incorrect spews:
If you think marijuana is immoral and bad, don’t have anything to do with it. But let those who choose to enjoy this substance do so. Yes, regulate and tax marijuana – it is not for kids and it is not a necessary substance (just like beer, wine and hard liquor), but it is not going away. It’s time for the nation to realize that Prohibition has yet to be ended. Legalize marijuana now!
Roger Rabbit spews:
@18 There’s an easy way to test whether I’m delusional. Put on blackface and drive through any Texas hick town and see what happens to your car, cash, and valuables.
http://prisonmovement.wordpres.....it-claims/
Puddybud Remembers Libtardos Forget spews:
People need to determine if they agree or disagree with these latest findings.
Then there is this… “In strict medical terms marijuana is far safer than many foods we commonly consume. For example, eating 10 raw potatoes can result in a toxic response. By comparison, it is physically impossible to eat enough marijuana to induce death. Marijuana in its natural form is one of the safest therapeutically active substances known to man. By any measure of rational analysis marijuana can be safely used within the supervised routine of medical care.” Francis Young DEA Administrative Law Judge.
Puddy sez, legalize it. You can’t stop peeps from doing something they think makes them feel good.
Flying Monkeys and now Blackface.
You are a real piece of work Herr Goebbels Dumb Bunny. Channeling headless lucy?
Jarvis spews:
Bill Virgin’s arguments were all in all pretty weak. I thought he was a libertarian.
sj spews:
Rhe Unholy Trinity
When Lee, Pussy and SJ agree on an issue, the end MUST be nigh!