I’ve received several comments and emails taking issue with, or downright offended by, my characterization of the pro-Chihuly “museum” forces at last night’s public hearing as a bunch of “rich, old, white folk,” as well as the implication I made that the forum was stacked in such a way that most of us on the other side didn’t get a chance to speak.
Well first of all, yeah, my headline was intended to be a little derogatory and hyperbolic. Big deal. So a couple of people of color spoke in favor of the proposal. And the Republicans always manage to get a couple of people of color to speak at their otherwise homogenous conventions.
Don’t take my characterization at face value? Here’s how The Stranger’s Cienna Madrid described the assembled throng:
Last night’s meeting at the Seattle Center on the proposed Chihuly Museum starred nearly 400 men and women in suits, most tied to the Seattle Center, Space Needle, or slick PR firms, all hustling for a project that would benefit the tourist industry, reading their scripts beneath a striped tent-top and bulbed sign that spelled out “Whirligig.”
Moderators Bill Block, Seattle Center Advisory Commission chair, and Seattle Center director Robert Nellums kicked off the meeting with a stump speech on how the Chihuly Museum would benefit the Center. City Council Members Sally Bagshaw, chair of the parks and Seattle Center committee, and Jean Godden, an alternate member of the committee, were also there to hear testimony.
But that testimony was stacked. This was more of a circus than a public meeting.
The Seattle Center brought its own public comment sign up sheet with them and the first hour of comment was wholly devoted to blowing Chihuly’s glass—the audience heard from the CEO of the Space Needle, a Seattle Center Advisory Board member, Seattle Center business managers and financial officers, and a hotel concierge representative. […] Less than 10 people in two hours spoke against this project.
Cienna was wrong on one point; she left before I did, and about two and a half hours into the meeting I finally had my two minutes to speak; not that there were many folks left in the Center House to hear it. It’s also true that about an hour into the proceedings the moderators started pulling names from the middle and back of the sign up sheets, so as to present a more diverse selection of speakers. But my post from the scene, laboriously typed out on my iPhone between 7:00 and 7:30 PM, was an accurate report at the time.
So what were the main arguments for the proposal?
A.) Dale Chihuly is a great guy who gives stuff to schools, and thus deserves this tribute.
Well, maybe he is, and I’ve got no reason to doubt the character assessment of the hundreds of friends (and two or three PR firms) he had there wearing “Yes for Chihuly at the Needle” stickers. But I’m guessing there are a lot of great guys in Seattle, and we can’t offer all of them the opportunity to lease scarce downtown parkland at $11 a square foot. Chihuly is a widely admired, world renowned artist whose talent and fame have made him an extremely wealthy man, so not only don’t I find the “great guy” argument all that convincing, I find it hard to muster any sympathy for him or the Wrights should they feel snubbed by the proposal’s less than enthusiastic public reception.
B.) Seattle would be crazy to turn down a “gift” like the proposed Chihuly “museum.”
The word “gift” was used repeatedly by speakers supporting the proposal, as was the word “museum,” when in fact, neither of these two words are really accurate.
Let’s be clear, the private, for-profit facility the Wrights have proposed is neither a “gift” nor a “museum,” Chihuly or otherwise. Museums have permanent collections; the Wrights’ glass house would not. Even the “$50 million worth of glass art” Chihuly has pledged will merely be displayed on loan, and may be removed entirely once his initial five year contract is up. The Wrights’ lease on the other hand, would continue for another 25 years at least.
What this is, is a gallery, gift shop and catering hall, conveniently located at the foot of the Space Needle where the Wrights could easily cart the food over from their existing catering business. Hell, for all we know, the $50 million worth of glass that Chihuly promises will be just as for sale as tchotchkes in the gift shop. And if Chihuly were to pull out at the end of a five-year contract, what we would be left with is a glorified Fireworks… a nice enough shop, but one which you can already find in malls throughout the region.
C.) The economic prosperity of the Seattle Center, indeed the entire region, depends on building this “museum”
Again and again the subject of money was raised, with the pro-“museum” speakers pointing out how desperate the Center is for revenue while in the depths of our current economic downturn. And while that may be true, I don’t think it pollyanna-ish to suggest that our economy won’t stay in the dumps forever.
Proponents argue that the $11/square foot the Wrights are willing to pay is above market rates for the Center, and that we should be grateful for the half million dollars a year that would generate. But the Fun Forest was already paying $350,000 a year, so it’s not like we’re looking at that much of an increase. And besides, this is public parkland we’re talking about. Since when do we evaluate its value by rental revenue per square foot?
No doubt if this proposal is rejected, that portion of the Fun Forest will remain vacant for a couple years as the economy recovers and the city raises the revenues to implement the master plan. But the alternative to being patient is selling off a 1.5 acre chunk of the Center for at least several decades, if not in perpetuity. So… what’s the rush?
D.) The proposed Chihuly “museum” would prove a tremendous upgrade to the Center’s current, “scary” facilities.
One speaker even suggested that his wife and young children were “afraid” to go the Seattle Center in its current state, but that the Chihuly “museum” would help turn this around. Really. A guy who thinks the Center is too scary and unsafe a place to bring his young kids has the balls to tell us what to do with its redevelopment.
The I’m-a-suburban-white-guy-who-fears-my-kids-might-run-into-some-hippies-and/or-dark-skinned-people bullshit aside, the proposal doesn’t really provide much of an upgrade at all. In fact it keeps the existing, bland brick building where the indoor amusements are currently housed, although it promises to green it up a bit by growing ivy on the walls or something. Now that’s what I call the making of a world class museum.
So yeah, while I eventually got my chance to speak, I stand by my on-the-ground characterization of last night’s meeting, and the cultural elite who packed the hall. In fact, I’m tempted to merely dismiss them as a PR orchestrated hiss. But that will have to wait for another post.
UPDATE:
The Stranger has more on what they’ve dubbed “Glastroturf,” including the $25 gift certificates folks are being promised for joining the PR-firm-organized “Chihuly at the Space Needle” Facebook group. Really.
Anyway, you can email the mayor and the council by clicking here, or click through to the Stranger’s post for a list of all their email addresses and phone numbers, and let them know where you stand on selling off Seattle Center land for a for-profit gallery, gift shop and catering hall.
“And besides, this is public parkland we’re talking about. Since when do we evaluate its value by rental revenue per square foot?”
I bid on Seward, Sand Point, Lincoln and Discovery parks. There’s no need for the city to lose any more money on those silly parks anymore. The city will make good money off the golf courses I have planned. In fact, the economic prosperity of Seattle, indeed the entire region, depends on my building these golf courses.
“Again and again the subject of money was raised, with the pro-”museum” speakers pointing out how desperate the Center is for revenue”
Were any of those the same bastards who grinned ear to ear as Clay Bennett gave it to them in the ass?
I have no objection to commercial uses. Commerce is great. I DO strongly object to this project, because Chihuly is NOT “widely respected” or even an artist at all. He’s a buffoon and a publicity whore. No serious books or shows or reviews of his work have been presented, excepting only those that are produced by HIS OWN PRODUCTION COMPANY. That PBS special? Written and produced by Chihuly, given to PBS as a way to further promote his sales. Chihuly is the Thomas Kinkade of glass.
So: his art is shit. It looks perfect in a Vegas casino. Vegas is dying out there in the desert, though, so he needs to pump up his market at home a little more. This facility is nothing more than a warehouse to store his crap in, and another sales outlet. Museum, my ass. It’s a crap festival.
The only people who are interested in Chihuly’s glass are philistine CEOs and CEO wannabes looking for trash to fill their Tuscan-style McMansions. He’s the Ed Hardy of the art world.
Why can’t the Center have stuff that’s fun? Why can’t it be like the Tivoli in Copenhagen? Why can’t we get an Eye, a giant Ferris wheel or something cool, that kids would like?
As a lawyer, I learned long ago that anytime a bunch of suits show up at a public meeting, somebody’s scheming to make a wade of private dough from public resources.
Scary? What a suburban “not in my backyard” idiot. The Seattle Center is MOSTLY new. Only Memorial Stadium and the Center house are true relics that need changing (and I kinda like the Center House). The Opera House? New. The Seattle Rep? New. Children’s Theater? New. Space Needle (redeveloped recently). SciFi/EMP? New. IMAX? New. The Science Center is original but STILL just as nice and functional (and cool) as the day it was built (and will soon have landmark status).
So grow up and visit the Center. Have a BEAUTIFUL day playing around the fountain on a sunny day. Have some food. See a movie or IMAX show. Visit the SciFi museum, then go up the Space Needle at sunset. It’s not scary, it’s VERY cool!
@4…I agree…as long as you dont mind stepping over needles and dealing with the bums…
Fnarf hits the bullseye! Dale was once an artist but he is now a marketing machine. Inbred Seattle Society all have their obligatory Chihuly glass pieces. The proposed Seattle Center Chihuly museum (sic) in nothing more than proof positive, for all the world to see, that Seattle has no taste. But, it is very dangerous, in polite circles, to speak out against a Seattle icon.
@2
Yup!
The way you dig yourself out the hole that we’re in is by building cool things for your city. A pseudo museum that people will go into once is not a cool thing for your city. The best play ground (and free to boot) in the PNW is a cool thing for your city and will help people to decide to live in Seattle, vacation in Seattle, locate businesses in Seattle.
The pro Chihuly people are leaches and whores. Leaches and whores aren’t good for your city.
PS. I’ve slammed Seattle many times for lack of vision and leadership. I think the playground idea shows vision and leadership. It’s nice to see.
Goldy, I was there, you pretty much captured what I saw.
Y’know, if I wanted that land, and there was a public comment meeting, I would show up and ask for it.
Where the fuck were the Wrights or Chihuly?
Not there, because this is not a personal thing, their servant CEO was one of, if not, the first speaker (what are the odds).
There is planned enclosed space in the master plan. They can bid for that space.
They are not even competing for this space.
Robert Nellams should be fired, right fucking now.
If you are going to do glass, make it Preston Singletary.
The stories I could tell about Dale Chihuly…
There are people that work with glass that are 100 times the artist he is.
The guy is not worth this..
If Chihuly finds a reasonable building in SODO, downtown where ever, fine..
But not the Seattle Center. I appreciate Paul Allen’s largesse and his passion for investing in his home town but his taste hasn’t been the greatest.
I hope this monument to Chihuly’s ego is rejected in favor of something way better.
Hmmmm. Yep fnarf expressed it well.
Great work Goldy!
I thought Tacoma already had a bunch of Chihuly “art” across a bridge or something. If people want they can get on I-5 and head south and presto! gobs and gobs of Chihuly
I’ve been at the Center on warm, summer evenings and there are all kinds of kids (and adults) playing in the fountain. It’s just wonderful–music and water squirting all over the place. If I lived nearby, it’s where I’d go on a hot day. Bring your young children and no one will be afraid.
This project is really just a display case for commercial success, and really would fit much better in a more appropriate (and not ‘scary’) context, say, maybe, Bel Square or Redmond Town Center. Somewhere where they are used to having their civic amenities serve as adjuncts for commerce and financial exploitation.
And I’ll say it: a little Chihuly goes a long way. I’ve been to Tacoma, and I’ve seen pieces in public buildings all over the city. I’m bored. If the Center is that hard up for money, I’d rather they put a parking lot there. (Though, if they were forward thinking, and they noticed the buildings going up all around, they’d realize that an open, kid-friendly play space would be a big win.)
The city says it doesn’t have the funds to renovate the space for our kids. How much is needed? Could it be raised privately instead?
JP Patches has a new statue and the money was raised privately by selling paver bricks. I have my own paver, thank you. :-)
It would be possible to do the same thing here for our kids.
Priceless… As Steve says… It’s the Sewer here.
Priceless…
Then why would some of Chihuly glass be in a Las Vegas casinos? Wouldn’t the casino owner be more circumspect than having a buffoon and a publicity whore object d’art in their casino?
@15
Puddy?
Are you suggesting that Las Vegas is the epitome of class and high culture?
Steve Wynn is legally blind. He can’t actually see the art he installs escept as a blob of colors. And BTW, Steve’s a publicity whore. (see WYNN casino.)
Heh! “blob of colors” is a perfect description of Chihuly’s products.
He and Steve Wynn are made for each other, though it’s sometimes difficult to discern who’s the whore, who’s the pimp, and who’s the john.
Somebody else suggested bringing back the bubblator (or however it’s spelled). That’s a brilliant idea! I remember fondly riding in it as a kid. It was way more fun than the Space Needle.
How about a museum to kitch like that? It would certainly be more interesting to kids. Open up an RFP and let Archie McPhee put in a bid!
There is enough, and I would agree with some, too much chihuly in Seattle. To put a ‘museum’ devoted to a corpus/oevre that has been marketed as ‘art’ will be a complete boondoggle. For all of the visual unpalatability the EMP subjects to the cityscape, the counterpart would be placed into the buildings of the Center. It is a complete folly to suggest a chihuly museum would be a moneymaking/self sustaining-profit making entity. The Center is a Commons, and should be treated as such. It is a greater application of funds to create a Park/greenspace with enough security to keep bums and dopers out than to have a miss directed monument to the melted sands of visual vulgarity.
“How about a museum to kitch like that?”
That’s an interesting idea. Perhaps it’s not the best use for that particular SC space, but a museum of Seattle’s iconic kitch might be kind of cool.
Just wanted to add that there will certainly be Chihuly’s for sale. Here in Florida Chihuly had a wonderful exhibit at Fairfield Childs Botanical Gardens a few years back. The gift shop attached to the Gardens was turned into a venue for selling Chihuly’s art glass with many, many pieces of his multiples, which by the way are for sale all over the country, possibly the world as well. Chihuly has a real factory going. He hasn’t done the work signed by him in many,many years.
Something called “Puddy” wrote:
“Then why would some of Chihuly glass be in a Las Vegas casinos? Wouldn’t the casino owner be more circumspect than having a buffoon and a publicity whore object d’art in their casino?”
Yeah, right. “Circumspect” is hardly the word one would use to describe the Bellagio, which is about as circumspect (and as tasteful) as the Royal Whorehouse in Dubai. And as bankrupt, I wouldn’t be surprised to hear. Vegas is in the toilet these days — a fourth of all homes in mortgage default, average house price 40% of what it was a couple of years ago, hundreds of thousands of empty rooms, casinos bleeding out the ass up and down the strip. The only reason Steve Wynn is still alive is because when you owe the banks as much as he does, it’s the bank that has the problem, not you.
That’s why Chihuly wants this thing in the first place. His markets are drying up.
Has it ever occoured to anyone that the Eye of London was lobbied for by those citing the Space Needle as an attraction?
The $350,000 goes away by years end. You got any cash? The Wrights are willing to bet a minimum of $500,000 a year, PLUS all the taxes on revenue for five years. It tanks, and we get to buldoze then. If it succeeds, we get money, use of a building we paid for at a park built around and for attractions, theaters, and the like.
Yes of COURSE they could take it elsewhere. In this market, probably for less. The idea was for them to make up for the loss of the $350 K that goes away soon. The CENTER APPROCHED THE NEEDLE, not the other way around.
Hell, lets just plow the whole grounds flat. The Ballet can find someplace else for the nutcracker. Screw opera. The Kids theater can pay full retail for rental of a commercial hall. The Science Center – who needs that? There is no need to make tech accessable or interesting. SO what if the architect was seattle born, and later did the twin towers… OPEN SPACE UBER ALLUS!!!… Bumbershoot could be like woodstalk in the city.
OPEN SPACE FOLKS, DISCOVERY PARK has 540 ACRES just two miles north east. ITS ON SALT WATER. IT has huge open space. Take the # 24.
For those wondering where are the playgrounds, LOOK JUST two blocks NE of the campus is the new, clean, spiffy highland park playground for kids. S. Lake Union is a playground for kids. ON DENNY 8 blocks east are ball courts, and fields. There are elementary schools in three directions within 2 miles, along with three parks that feature open space, art, water, and trails: South Lake Union, Kinnear Park, Denny Park (the cities OLDEST!) and Myrtle Edwards, and the Olympic Sculpture Park, along with urban parks like Westlake, Freeway Park, and our waterfront park.
I was there. I got bupkas from the Needle folks. No one paid or “bribed” me. I am for it because it is a good use of space at a time when there are no funds to do otherwise. It is POORLY sited space to be open space. you cannot fly kites there, you are surrounded on four sides by attractions and museums.
The center has children oriented attractions. Yes there are fees. There are also fees for the Zoo, the Aquarium, as well as park pools, golf courses and more.
Honestly. 1.5 acres of 74 acres. AND they are willing to pay for it. WTF… we dithered about funds for light rail and that is why we got ours 40 years after Portland. Brilliant.
I fought for the Commons. WHERE WERE YOU ALL? I WANT open space. But I WANT IT TO WORK AS open space. This would not. Let them build the Chihuly and pay us for it. THOSE funds help let the center underwrite all the FREE events, like the 19 ethnic festivals, and the holiday events, and the kids things like Whirlygig during school breaks.
And Stop trashing the man. IF you don’t like his art, walk away. I don’t like some of what goes on at the center, but it PAYS THE BILLS, and gives people jobs… MANY of them are UNION jobs at a living wage. THE CENTER IS AN ATTRACTIONS BASED PARK. IT HAS BEEN SINCE BEFORE THE FAIR. Private funds paid to build the Opera house and Skate Rink in 1924.
Seattle parks have had hotels, casinos, and carnival rides on them since the 1890s to help pay for the park space. McCaw Hall could not have been remodeled without it. Private venders, some even rich and white, have helped parks pay the bills from the beginning.
Build OPEN SPACE WHERE IT WORKS. PUT ATTRACTIONS where THEY WORK.
Seattle Greg,
You don’t get it. It seems that a lot of Seattleites just aren’t excited enough about a Chihuly “museum” to trade 1.5 acres of the Seattle Center in exchange for $500,000/year. It’s just not the right location, and we just don’t think it’s worth the money. We’re talking about 25 cents a year on the average homeowner’s property tax bill; I think folks might be willing to pay that to come up with something that better served a broader segment of the population.
We spent all this time, effort and thought into putting together the master plan, and now you argue that we should dump it simply because we’re in an economic downturn and we’re temporarily short of money? I just don’t find that argument convincing.
“24. Goldy spews:
Seattle Greg,
You don’t get it. It seems that a lot of Seattleites just aren’t excited enough about a Chihuly “museum” to trade 1.5 acres of the Seattle Center in exchange for $500,000/year. It’s just not the right location, and we just don’t think it’s worth the money…”
squared.
turn the space into a memorial for all Washington State veterans of wars….
for the record, the wrights already have an exhibition space at the ‘feet’ of the space needle – the wright exhibition space on dexter.
when did the horrendous idea of a hideous gallery dedicated to the ‘thomas kinkade’ of glass, become an attraction?!? few tourists are gonna go there… most seattle-ites won’t go there… chihuly glass is not an attraction – it’s an abortion.
“I fought for the Commons. WHERE WERE YOU ALL?”
Back then I might have been sitting in the restaurant on the second floor of Bartell’s looking out at one of Seattle’s finest street scenes below, wondering WTF the city was going to lose next. By the way, where the fuck were you when Clay Bennett was fucking this city as our politicians were grinning ear to ear? For my part, I was in Key Arena chanting, SAVE OUR SONICS! SAVE OUR SONICS! SAVE OUR SONICS! SAVE OUR SONICS! SAVE OUR SONICS! SAVE OUR SONICS! SAVE OUR SONICS! SAVE OUR SONICS! SAVE OUR SONICS!
“And Stop trashing the man. IF you don’t like his art, walk away.”
Just how the hell does one walk away from that damned blown glass in this fucking city? I’ll tell you what, if there were ten thousand Vermeers and countless imitations of his art in this city, I be bored to tears with him too. You people want to build a museum in the Seattle Center to glorify a living artist? WTF is up with that? How about we at least wait until he’s dead and have let a few decades pass and we;ll have seen if anybody still gives a rat’s ass, like we did with Jimi, not that his museum worked out or anything.
“Let them build the Chihuly and pay us for it.”
I’ll trade you, your glass for my golf. Build your museum. You just have to agree to let a developer turn Discovery Park into a golf course. Hey, they’ll pay us for it.
@29….I like that idea!
“Build OPEN SPACE WHERE IT WORKS. PUT ATTRACTIONS where THEY WORK.”
Well, a golf course at Discovery Park would not only be an attraction, it’d work at Discovery Park, it’d leave open space and the developer would pay us for it. I’d say this fits in with every point you’ve made. Really, I don’t see how you could possibly not support having a golf course at Discovery Park.
Seriously… I would OPPOSE a golf course at Discovery park. THERE the OPEN SPACE WORKS. I can fly a kite, and not be bothered by folks in line for the latest concert at Key Arena, or the folks waiting to see the latest 3D at the IMAX. HERE we are talking about less than 1.5 acres of POORLY SITED BLACKTOP and a crappy building we taxpayers paid for. The CURRENT Tennant is LEAVING. The NEXT tennant is willing to invest 15 MILLION of their own money, and Pay US, Seattle Residents, a minimum of $500,000 a year to place art in a gallery.
SURE, they can take it elsewhere… along with the 400,000 visitors. You got a legit idea to make up the $350,000 rent that is going away that can use the space? The Exhibit as outlined meets FIVE Criteria of the Century 21 plan. Open space grass meets FOUR.
Its NOT dumping it there if 400,000 more folks are coming to see it. It is adding to the mix. SOme of the mix I don’t like, but it all helps create JOBS, some are even UNION JOBS, it pays its own way, and it MEETS THE CENTERS STATED GOALS AND CRITERIA.
I don’t like Wagner and the RING, but I am thilled the Seattle Opera is able to produce it in a great venue, thanks in part to 70 some MILLION paid by PRIVATE DONATION. It keeps a lot of folks employed, and offers something that others like, even if I don’t. I am not going to be so dogmatic as to say if I don’t like it, no one else should offer it on my taxpayer supported land. Nice to see such open minds here.
@32
400,000 is such a rosy prediction. And what happens after year one when that 400,000 becomes the handful of Seattle residents who want to see it more than once and a handful of tourists who want to spend more $$$ apart from the Space Needle at the Center. I’d be curious how many tourists venture any farther into the center than the needle at present.
If the Wrights are ready to sign an iron-clad 20 year lease for $500,000 maybe we can talk. But in two years of mounting losses I will pretty much iron-clad guarantee you they will be coming back to the city Clay Bennetesque to threaten to break the lease or re-negotiate. If they’re iron clad locked to 10 million over 20 years, I’ll be willing to consider it.
And think about it. If rent is $500,000 we’ll add $100,000 for operating costs.
At that rate you need 400,000 full-price adults paying $15. just to break even. Or you need to keep finding high wealth donors to keep the concern afloat.
So no iron-clad no opt-out balloon payment required to break lease, NO DEAL!
“Seriously… I would OPPOSE a golf course at Discovery park.”
Oh, oh, you’re starting to lose me already.
“THERE the OPEN SPACE WORKS. I can fly a kite, and not be bothered by folks in line for the latest concert at Key Arena, or the folks waiting to see the latest 3D at the IMAX.”
I thought you were going to be serious. You have plenty of open space at other parks. Go to the lake to fly a kite. There is no quality golf course in Seattle! Golfers will pay big money to play a fine course! To hell with those free-loading kite fliers.
“SURE, they can take it elsewhere… along with the 400,000 visitors.”
And just what is the problem with putting it somewhere else in Seattle? Is the idea of a Chillhuly museum only feasible if it goes on public land in the Seattle Center next to the Wright’s Space Needle? I’m sure.
“Its NOT dumping it there if 400,000 more folks are coming to see it. It is adding to the mix.”
These aren’t 400,000 citizens going to the museum. We see enough glass. This museum is for the Wrights, Chilhully, Seattle’s upper class and tourists. A kids park would be for everybody.
“it MEETS THE CENTERS STATED GOALS AND CRITERIA”
It meets the needs of the Wrights and Chilhully who chum with the very people who establish and interpret the criteria. And what’s with you and CAPS? Are you another KLOWN? We already got us a KLOWN.
“I don’t like Wagner and the RING, but I am thilled the Seattle Opera is able to produce it in a great venue, thanks in part to 70 some MILLION paid by PRIVATE DONATION.”
Huh? There’s absolutely no equivalancy between the Opera House, something that all great cities have, and some touristy tribute travesty of a museum.