As I’ve already written, Sen. Joe Biden clearly won Thursday’s Veep debate, at least on points. But what really matters is the impact (if any) this debate might have on voters, and whether it changes the dynamics of a presidential race that has been shifting steadily in Barack Obama’s favor. And the best measure of that, I suppose, are the various national tracking polls that are now being reported daily.
The following polls represent three-day running averages. The first number is from today, which includes results from Wednesday through Friday, and thus factors in one day of post-debate reaction. The number in parentheses are those reported yesterday, and represents survey results from Tuesday through Thursday, all collected before the debate.
Obama McCain Research 2000: 52 (51) 40 (40) Rasmussen: 51 (51) 45 (44) Diageo/Hotline: 48 (48) 41 (42) Gallup: 50 (49) 42 (42)
This only includes one day of post-debate tracking, but as you can see, if there is any movement, it’s not in McCain’s favor. Indeed, the Research 2000 poll, which is being conducted on behalf of Daily Kos, showed the best single day spread for Obama yet:
On successive days in the R2K poll, Obama was up +11 Wed, +12 Thurs and +13 Fri, which is post-debate and Obama strongest day yet (MoE +/- 5.1 for individual days.) Interestingly, the Obama numbers (48-52) are more consistent than the McCain numbers (40-46), but the polls are all consistent in picking up an Obama lead.
And Rasmussen, which is reporting the narrowest gap between the two candidates, observes a similar stability:
For each of the past nine days, Obama has been at 50% or 51% and McCain has been at 44% or 45%. The stability of these results suggests that the McCain campaign faces a very steep challenge in the remaining few weeks of Election 2008.
To say the least.
Early voting has already started in Ohio, and begins in earnest here in WA state and throughout much of the rest of the nation in another week and a half. If John McCain is going to turn this thing around, he better get moving quick, because I don’t think Sarah Palin’s collection of half-answers, winks and folksy colloquialisms quite did the trick.
If someone watched that debate without any idea who Biden or Palin was, and was told that the sole criterion for judging the debaters’ performance was to determine who is better qualified to be president, Palin would not have scored a point. Biden kicked her all the way back to Wasilla. The only reason she got plaudits from pundits is because they had set the bar so low for her. Her performance confirmed that she has not the slightest idea concerning any substantive matter pertinent to this campaign.
The honest and sincere guy with the hair plugs, face lift, and porcelain veneers won.
I can’t wait until Biden, with 36 years in the Senate, brings us some change and hope!
Obama/Biden/Ayers in ’08!
(endorsed by Hamas)
Economic events are so overwhelming that I think the veep debate is having little if any effect on voters. The bailout has been devastating for the McCain camp — all his polls are going to hell.
Palin is no longer a player in this campaign. McCain’s last chance, if he has one, is to “swiftboat” Obama with attack ads. If that doesn’t work for him … checkmate.
@3 “(endorsed by Hamas)”
Clutching for a life ring? Nope, sorry, I don’t have one — I’m gonna havta stand here and watch you drown, and there isn’t a fucking thing I can do about it.
HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR
It’s a little early to gloat but…
well, it sure is looking pretty good!
LMAO!!!
Heaven help us with the Republican mess we’ll have to clean up. They just stole another Iraq occupation sized chunk of change to fuck up things even more between now and January.
@6
I agree with you. Republicans are evil. They aren’t like us compassionate Democrats at all.
BTW, how many homeless people from tent city are you willing to sponsor in your home for the winter? Can you take 5? You have space on your living room floor for them to camp out, right?
A Journalist Finally Says Something Funny
One of the most popular cliches in contemporary journalism is “who asked not to be named because.” But Jon Meacham, writing in Newsweek, while not avoiding the cliche has taken it to its ultimate literary height:
“After the vice presidential debate, a senior figure in the [Republican] party, who asked not to be named because he was telling the truth, told me that …”
(Quoted under fair use; emphasis added by Roger Rabbit Editorial Committee.)
Roger Rabbit Commentary: I give this one a Ten. Or at least a Nine. Maybe a Nine And A Half. The only better line I’ve ever seen in newsprint is the tabloid headline, “Donor Wants Kidney Back.” But then, nothing could ever top that one.
Biden won on points?
Damn, how many points do you award a lie, 1,000?
So daily kos is conducting polls.
They must be accurate, why wouldn’t they be. wink wink
It’s going to be very disappointing when obama loses and the daily kos poll says 100% of the people voted for him.
Troll
And how many homeless people are you presently sheltering? Are you headed off to your KKK meeting tonight? Go iron your sheets, man, you want to look spiffy for your fellow racists.
9, 10 – Whacking off at your keyboard again, Marvin? You need a girlfriend. I’m just sayin’ …
Um… Research 2000 is doing the poll, idiot.
Real Clear Politics is showing Obama up by 12 in Pennsylvania and New Hampshire!
It looks like the D’s will be picking up senate seat in New Mexico, Udall’s up by +14. Environmental voters are doing well this year.
Tom Harkin is up by +17! Gotta love it.
Troll@7: Asking yelling loser boy to do anything for his fellow man is similar to asking headless lucy to stop his name switching antics here on HA.
Personally I liked Irv Kupicet. At least in that persona lucy was somewhat coherent.
Joe Biden. Wikipedia.
“He went on to receive his Juris Doctor from Syracuse University College of Law in 1968,[10] where by his own description he again underperformed and ranked 76th of 85 students.[11][13] During his first year there, he was accused of having plagiarized 5 of 15 pages of a law review article. Biden said it was inadvertent due to his not knowing the proper rules of citation, and Biden was permitted to retake the course after receiving a grade of F, which was subsequently dropped from his record.[13] (The issue came up in 1987 during Biden’s presidential campaign, and later that year the Delaware Supreme Court’s Board of Professional Responsibility cleared Biden of the plagiarism charges regarding his standing as a lawyer, saying Biden had “not violated any rules”.)[14] Biden was admitted to the Delaware Bar in 1969.[10]
Biden received five student draft deferments during this period, with the first coming in late 1963 and the last in early 1968, at the peak of the Vietnam War.[15] In April 1968, he was reclassified by the Selective Service System as not available for service due to having had asthma as a teenager.”
Our next Vice President. What a piece of garbage.
Comparing @1 and @2. proud leftist talked about Palen’s performance. Troll talked about Biden’s looks. proud leftist talked about substance, Troll talked about style.
@16
Hmm… Sarah Palin makes women who have been raped pay for their own rape kit, fires the head cop in the state because he won’t break the law for her and puts friends with no no knowledge or experience in charge of departments and you’re calling Biden a piece of trash?
What you’re quoting is 40 years old and Biden admits it he fucked up. Palin made women pay for their own rape kits just a couple of years back and doesn’t seem to regret it. Sorry try again.
You might want to talk to your doctor about starting you on some wellbutrin and refering you to a therapist. It might help.
@16. Troll, were you equally upset with the way bush, cheney and limbaugh got out of going to Vietnam? I would like to know if your anger is selective, depending on party
What part of this is unclear?
Biden was found to have apparently made an honest mistake. bush makes “honest” mistakes and they are forgiven (I didn’t care it was illegal to spy on Americans without a warrant) but Biden cannot be forgiven an error from 40 years ago? It seems like a double standard.
No question about it, Obama/Biden are the draft dodger ticket this year. hehehehe
@20 Non sequitor. Ignored.
Michael@18:
Rape victims paying for Rape Kits:
http://www.confederateyankee.m.....274003.php
Well if a Donkey said it on Huff Post it must be true.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/blo.....-bunk.aspx
“But the fact remains that this is a nasty and untrue rumor about Sarah Palin that’s been circulating for weeks. If you’re an Obama supporter who gets frustrated that people still believe he’s Muslim or won’t put his hand on his heart for the Pledge of Allegiance, you should understand the frustration that Palin supporters feel when this slime is taken at face value.”
Except the NY Times put forth this garbage Michael.
Are you back on Steve’s Stupid Solution?
Michael@18: More on your “Rape Kit” stuff:
http://volokh.com/posts/1222691235.shtml
Do some research man and stay off the Daily Kurse man-made kool-aid. Leave that to yelling loser boy.
@19
Blue John, were you equally upset that not one liberal on this supposedly liberal blog took me up on my offer to have them take into their homes a few tent city people over the winter?
Troll, do you REALLY want to try to get into a battle over who went to Vietnam and who didn’t?????
Besides our illustrious commander-in-chief, who’s Daddy position had him jump to the top of the waiting list of the Texas Air National Guard so he could avoid potentially going to Vietnam, and then couldn’t manage to finish his term of service, we have the following fully-qualified ChickenHawks:
The current Vice-President, Dick Cheney. He managed to get FIVE draft deferrments during the Vietnam War. At a time when he was classified 1A, he quickly married to avoid service (married men weren’t being called up then). When the draft was expanded to include married men with no chidren, Cheney and his wife managed to have his first daughter nine months and two days after the announcement. Despite this, he claimed to the Senate during his confirmation hearing during the first Bush administration that he would have been “happy to have served if he had been called”, but told a Washington Post that he had “other priorities” at the time.
Karl Rove, who’s managed to avoid the draft under a student deferement even though he was only registered part-time and then dropped those classes, and had his draft status changed to “ineligible” shortly after taking a national position with the College Republicans (even though he wasn’t in college).
Rush Limbaugh, who apparantly got a deferment because his doctor wrote him a letter saying he was disabled by a “pilonidal cyst”, which Rush claimed was inoperabel but most doctors who don’t have a political stake in the controversy laugh at that one. He also claimed he had an old knee injury from High School, but his old football coach doesn’t remember any such injury.
Lots of other Republicans on the list, including Jack Kemp who also claimed football injuries in High School made him ineligible for military service, although surprisingly they didn’t prevent him from playing professional football for several years.
If Sarah Palin becomes Vice President – Republicans will finally bring meaning to when they utter their last words, “God Bless America”.
I actually was looking for an open thread to post this link, in tribute to our veterans, but since Troll brought the subject up, I’ll post it here anyway.
Tribute to Veterans
This video has absolutely no political leaning whatsoever, it’s just a tribute to those who served our country.
@23
Sorry buddy, but the sexual assault budget for Wassila went from around 13K before Palin to around 3K under Palin. It was her budget, if she didn’t know she should have. The rest of the state knew about it. The Alaska state Leg. passed a law because of what was going on in Wassila.
Um, I just copies and pasted a section from a Wikipedia article that showed Biden has cheated throughout his whole life. Even his FACE is a lie. Hair plugs, a face lift, tanning salons, and porcelain veneers.
“But what about this Republican over here who did the exact same….”
I’m going to stop you right there. I’m not going to play your game of find a similar example elsewhere. Joe Biden is a just another greasy, low-life, parasitic politician.
That stands on its own.
SUMMARY: Bloggers contend Palin supported a city policy that charged sexual assault victims for forensic exams. We find the truth is murky.
http://www.politifact.com/trut.....ntroversy/
So you are both half right.
Michael: Are you Steve’s Stupid Solution south end distibutor?
“By contrast, consider the Times piece in question: “When Sarah Palin was mayor of Wasilla, Alaska, the small town began billing sexual-assault victims for the cost of rape kits and forensic exams.” [False on two counts; no one was billed, and to the extent there was an official policy to the contrary, it wasn’t started under Palin’s watch]
“In the absence of answers, speculation is bubbling in the blogosphere that Wasilla’s policy of billing rape victims may have something to do with Ms. Palin’s extreme opposition to abortion, even in cases of rape.” [Completely made up. The author seems to think, apparently incorrectly, that rape kits contain a morning-after pill.]”
Here is some interesting poop to digest lefties:
Barack Obama: A Radical Leftist’s Journey from Community Organizing to Politics.
And here is where the Obama Campaign started it’s attack:
Inside Obama’s Acorn – By their fruits ye shall know them.
Ha. I win. Troll won’t face the double standard of his own statements.
According to Troll’s arguments, he is dismissing Biden over a 40 year old error that Biden was cleared of and Biden’s appearance? Given that criteria, how can troll then vote republican?
Wow more goodies:
Obama’s Campaign “Paid More Than $800,000” To ACORN For Get-Out-The Vote Efforts; The Campaign Originally “Misrepresented” The Group’s Work To The FEC. “U.S. Sen. Barack Obama’s presidential campaign paid more than $800,000 to an offshoot of the liberal Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now for services the Democrat’s campaign says it mistakenly misrepresented in federal reports. An Obama spokesman said Federal Election Commission reports would be amended to show Citizens Services Inc. — a subsidiary of ACORN — worked in ‘get-out-the-vote’ projects, instead of activities such as polling, advance work and staging major events as stated in FEC finance reports filed during the primary.” – David M. Brown, “Obama To Amend Report On $800,000 In Spending,” Pittsburgh Tribune Review, 8/22/08
http://boards.msn.com/MSNBCboa.....m=Page%3D2
Got to go into Hell to prove the truth sometimes
Even though I believe Obama will push for reparations for blacks and illegal aliens, and even though I believe he will release all blacks from prisons because he’ll say they were “tried and convicted in a racist and unjust criminal justice system,” and even though I believe he will admit he is a Muslim on November 5th, and even though I believe he will unilaterally disarm our entire military of not just nukes, but all weaponry (by donating it free of charge to Muslim nations that border Israel), I am still going to vote for him because I believe he’s the candidate that will end the Iraq war soonest.
Looks like Obama’s old org is at it again:
VOTE FRAUD ALERT: Obama & ACORN Fact Sheet
Troll: I already proved from Obama’s web site he said he’d pull the troops out in 16 months. Then in the debate he claimed he never said it.
Then I went to Fact Check. Fact Check called him out on that lie. Puddy was right again.
Nice web site
http://www.barackbook.com/
I skimmed the Radical Leftist article. Typical black is white, up is down, all the things that progressives value, conservatives dismiss and vice versa piece. The article is very biased to the point of view that seems to be in oppositeland so I don’t have much construtive to say about it.
Lets see.
Why is Radical Leftist a bad thing?
He’s trying to get people to aggressively better themselves. How is that bad? Would the writer would rather the community stay passive and ignorant?
The conclusion, where the writer complains that Obama wants government to be part of the solution is right in line with people who think government is the problem.
It didn’t give me anything to change my mind. Obama is still a better choice than McCain.
Puddy and Troll,
Let’s look at what I said again.
1. Had a policy of women paying for their own rape kits. This is a true statement.
No one may have been billed, it may have been started under someone else, it may have been de facto, not de jure, but the Alaska State Leg. had to pass a law banning such practices and they did so because of Wassila. I haven’t seen anything about Palin lobbying for the state law.
2. The police budget for investigating sexual assault tanked under Palin. True again.
3. I guess the jury’s still out on Trooper gate. Maybe I should have said allegedly, but I doubt it. I’m going to call it true.
4. Put friends in power in high places that didn’t have the ability to get the position on merit. True again.
36:
Whatever hallucinogenic substance, whether legally prescribed or not, I think you should consider cutting back.
What you wrote came directly from a mind (for lack of a better word) of someone who has lost all touch with anything resembling reality.
I used to think you were just an idiot who wanted attention.
Now I just feel compassion for you and whatever condition it is you are suffering from.
#36. If that gets him to vote for Obama, I’m good with that.
Puddy,
Are you voting for Obama? You said you would to break the ceiling. Are you backing away from your word? Are you changing your mind because of the brilliant VP pick of Palin?
Why is reality so hard for Republicans to grasp?
The war is going badly (yes, taking too long to get out and having more service men and women killed qualifies as badly), the economy is in the toilet, unemployment is at its highest level in years and you jokers want to pretend McSame and the (supposed)MILF are the people to bring change?
I’m just askin’……
In all honesty, this is a tough one for me. I think McCain would be better for me personally in terms of my pocketbook, but I think Obama would be better in terms of international relations and getting us out of Iraq.
Ask obama, he refuses to be honest about who he is.
Just like why do democrats always have to track to the right in general elections?
What is it about being a leftist that doesn’t go over well with america?
@46. When people answer questions with more questions, it makes me assume they are hiding something. Like they don’t have answers.
Again. Why is Radical Leftist a bad thing? Just like why is Queer a bad thing? Gays people took that term back and embraced it. Let’s take the best of the label back from the opposite-land conservative frame makers.
How many deferments did the lifeguard and football player biden get?
Why doesn’t that bother you?
Oh yeah, the leftist mentality-
Because this is a partisan blog that takes on Republicans. He would be disgusted by the Democrat and what he did, but he wouldn’t write about it here.
http://www.horsesass.org/?p=5675#comment-847043
Excellent answer for why obama isn’t honest about his ideology.
Also an excellent answer why democrats always have to track right in the general election.
Feel free to answer my questions if you are able to be honest with yourself.
To answer the deferment question, I need to know where Biden stands on wars in general and the Iraq invasion and occupation in specific. I will go look it up if I have to, but asking here is quicker.
#49 circular logic. ignored.
Come back when you have something to bring to the table.
Why are you trying to lie when your own words are only a couple clicks up the page?
Oh yeah, you’re a democrat. You don’t feel that you’re lying, you’re just not telling the truth.
I don’t blame you for being afraid to answer such simple questions.
We both know the answer… the liberal plank obama ran on during the primaries is so far out of step with america he had to track right.
which positions were that?
I have a problem with Cheney taking FIVE draft deferments during the Vietnam War, and have him be so quick to send other people’s kids to their deaths for an invasion that was not in our Country’s best interests.
I found it troubling that Biden was for the war before he was against it. “Biden nonetheless voted for the war authorization. Biden became a war critic not long after the invasion.” But thats one reason why he’s VP and not President. Biden getting deferments is not a deal breaker for me, because he was not a warmonger about the invasion of Iraq.
Can you see the difference?
My Left Foot, you should be ashamed. You have libtard 24 hour memory issues too.
Go back and review what I said about the presidential candidates. If you need help, ask yelling loser boy.
Better yet, don’t stoop to his moronic level!
See ya!
Pud
Michael@41: You are reading the NY Times again.
Try looking at the facts for a change.
Puddy @ 57: “Try looking at the facts for a change.”
Thank you, my friend, for a laugh as I head to bed. Puddy, you wouldn’t know a fact from a chicken crammed up your ass. But, we love you anyway. Goodnight.
Blue balls john, hey more people died in
Chicago this summer than in Iraq. When will
Obama get us out of his hometown? Of course,
those who died in Chicago are his bruthas
and not American heroes fighting a war against
muslim terrorist who want to kill democrats.
Muslim terrorist dont hate conservatives they
hate democrats. Did you know that? They hate everything you tards stand for. I wouldn’t
be surprised if they nuked this country they
probably would let er rip in Hollywood where
the truest form of scum resides.
Troll Having served 32 years in the miltary i can tell you obama is the worst choice there is.he will wave his white flag often.and im telling you forget the 16 month pullout not going to hapen and you can take that to the bank.
60
Thank you for your incoherent nonsense. Did you ever learn any rules about punctuation, spelling, or grammar? Plainly, you never took any logic courses. With regard to your alleged 32 years in the military, let me just suggest that you probably were incapable of obtaining private employment. Got it? I don’t honor your service. If idiots like you are in the military, then we need to revamp.
Proud Leftist: Glad I could bring a laugh.
Good thing Fact Check.org seems to agree with Puddy more than the crap you paste here.
Poor Stupes. As his world view crumbles around him, he wanders the comments threads of HA.org lost in his rapidly disintegrating world of right wing delusions.
Sure must suck bad to be him.
@59:
I love it when right wingnuts make the same stupid comparison like:
This just shows how pathetically and patemtly ridculous these arguments are. John McCain was the cheerleader for a war that has killed over 4,000 troops and was totally unnecessary for the security of our contry. In addition, over 30,000 troops have been injured (many seriously) at least 100,000 Iraqis (and probably a lot more than that) have been killed and claose 500,000 Iraqis have fled their country
Blither all you want shitheads…Obama/Biden wins and it won’t be close.
You losers lose.
Palin’s a disaster. The smears of Obama are getting NO TRACTION…mcshame is bunkered in Sedona sucking his thumb (or recovering from the minor STROKE he had last week).
Sux to be you.
Yelling loser boy, I come for a few then I leave. Enjoyed my gaming center for a little while.
@62:
Factcheck says that McCain’s antObama ads on taxes, on sex-education and on Brittany Spears were all false and misleading.
do you actually read factcheck?
Not to mention Palin in the debate:
wrong on McCain’s position on the bankruptcy law and wrong on Biden’s war stance.
McCain flat out lied on NPR and said that he didn’t care what factcheck was or said. Guess you missed that one.
Hahahaha. Glad you are repudiating McCain.
Yup, just like john kerry said. Only the stupid go into the military.
We got it. You’re liberal and hate the military. No big surprise.
Of course you don’t. That’s what makes you proud. Oh yeah, a leftist.
@69: He said that he didn’t honor YOUR service. To defend freedoms that you don’t understand one lick about… well… it pretty much means that you’re a damn fool.