Nervous yet? The world’s central bankers certainly are, as the sudden collapse of Bear Stearns, the nation’s fifth largest investment firm, raises fears of a financial collapse unseen since the days of the Great Depression.
Bear Stearns Cos. reached an agreement to sell itself to J.P. Morgan Chase & Co., as worries grew that failing to find a buyer for the beleaguered investment bank could cause the crisis of confidence gripping Wall Street to worsen.
The deal calls for J.P. Morgan to pay $2 a share in a stock-swap transaction, with J.P. Morgan Chase exchanging 0.05473 share of its common stock for each Bear Stearns share. Both companies’ boards have approved the transaction, which values Bear Stearns at just $236 million based on the number of shares outstanding as of Feb. 16. At Friday’s close, Bear Stearns’s stock-market value was about $3.54 billion. It finished at $30 a share in 4 p.m. New York Stock Exchange composite trading Friday.
Wow. A 93% discount off of Friday’s close. Now that’s what I call a bargain, especially considering that Bear Stearns’ Manhattan office building is valued at around $1.2 billion, more the five times the price of the buyout. So… how much liability is J.P. Morgan assuming?
JPMorgan said that in addition to the loans extended to Bear on Friday, the Fed had agreed to fund up to $30bn of Bear’s less liquid assets – a move that will alleviate the need for a fire-sale of mortgage-backed securities.
That means you, dear taxpayer, are picking up the bulk of the risk, not J.P. Morgan. That’s the way things work in America: privatize the profits, socialize the losses.
Of course the Fed claims that Bear Stearns’ problems were unique, and that no other major US financial institution is on the verge of collapse, which I suppose is why they also cut interest rates a quarter point. On a Sunday. Ahead of an expected 1-point cut in the discount rate this Tuesday. And still, Asian markets and the dollar continue to fall… I wonder why?
As Bonddad wrote on Friday:
The only way to prevent this mess from happening again is to let some of the big banks fail. Then in the future when someone says, “let’s stop performing due diligence on borrowers” someone can respond with, “Bear Stearns tried that and they went belly up.” Now in 10 years, someone will say, “Let’s stop performing due diligence” someone will respond with “that’s a great idea. After the borrowers default, the Federal Reserve will bail us out.”
I guess that pull yourself up by your bootstraps, free market, rugged individualism stuff is only meant for us little guys.
UPDATE:
In Tokyo, the region’s largest stock exchange, the benchmark Nikkei 225 index was trading at an almost three-year low. By midday, the index dropped 4.2 percent to 11,726.99, falling below 12,000 for the first time since August 2005.
[…] The declines in Tokyo came even as the Japanese central bank, the Bank of Japan, moved to shore up financial markets by injecting $4.1 billion into short-term money markets.
Here is a link to a related article online in print format:
http://www.pressdisplay.com/pr.....%2bg%3d%3d
Best regards,
MediaMentions
Yeah, this is great.
There was a vote for “change” with the last Congress. Reid and Pelosi sure have changed things. Obviously the best thing to do is elect one of the marxists to be preznit so they can do more of this kind of change.
Fuck free markets… more gummint intervention by somebody REALLY smart is what’s needed.
Socialism, Secularism, Stalinism, and Surrender. What a great platform. All you fucking idiots have to do now is decide whether you are racist or sexist. Beat the shit out of each other. Either way, McCain wins in a landslide.
MTR @2,
Brilliant satire.
We need Pelosi, Reid and the rest of the moonbats to do more change.
Higher gas prices
Collapse of financial markets
Inflation and possibly stagflation (look it up… google “jimmy carter”)
People losing their homes
food prices out of fucking sight
banks going under.
goes on and fucking on…
Yeah, more “progressives” are exactly what we need. We need “change” like this.
Goldy – Which marxist do you support? It’s easy to decide…are you racist or sexist?
Pick one, and let us know.
Fucking loser..
How was this bail out approved???? Who the hell allowed this bail out to happen? And why on earth are we taxpayers saving multi-millionaires?!? From what? Not having as many millions?
Fuck the economy… it’s much more impotent to worry about “global warming”, “social justice”, “hope”, and “women’s issues.”
Dumfuckingshits…
Hey MTR Dumbshit – This is happening on the watch of the dipshit you voted for twice.
What a fucking idiot!
Who appointed Bernanke?
Pay your fucking gambling debt welsher!
Interesting long term chart of the dollars rise and fall
http://bp2.blogger.com/_H2DePA.....h/LTDX.png
Please Mark, take your meds. Your doctors are correct. You really do need them. Your meds will make you feel better and make those voices in your head go away.
Greed crosses party lines, but a constant is Wall Street profits when times are good, suffers little in bad times (how many Bear Stearns salesmen/bankers gave back their bonuses)
and i love the irony of Greenspan bemoaning the financial markets; he the doofus who never once put the brakes on the drunken party going on
@6
It’s as much or more of a question of how did the collapse happen and why did we change the rules so that it could. No, we shouldn’t have bailed them out. But, we also shouldn’t have changed the banking rules so that this collapse was possible. We can thank St. Ronnie for getting the ball rolling on bank deregulation, but Both Clinton’s and the rest of the Dem’s are culpable too.
And I really doubt that if this happened on BHO or HRC’s shift they would have handled it any differently.
From the nothing has changed department:
Really?
From Wikipedia:
“In October 1989 The Arizona Republic reported that in addition to campaign contributions, McCain’s wife and her father had invested $359,100 in a Keating shopping center in April 1986, a year before McCain met with the regulators. The paper also reported that the McCains, sometimes accompanied by their daughter and baby-sitter, had made at least nine trips at Keating’s expense, sometimes aboard the American Continental jet. Three of the trips were made during vacations to Keating’s opulent Bahamas retreat at Cat Cay. McCain also did not pay Keating for some of the trips until years after they were taken, after he learned that Keating was in trouble over Lincoln. [1] Lincoln Savings and Loan’s collapse is said to have cost taxpayers $3.4 billion [2].”
So the Republicans have moved from being bribed in secret, to just giving taxpayer money away to the campaign contributors.
But MTR a-hole thinks that is A-OK, just as long as they have an ” R” instead of a (D) after their name. What a tool!
How could so many Wall Street people who are so smart lose so badly at what they’re supposed to be so good at that they were paid millions of dollars a year to do it?
@2 Mark, I share your frustration with the spineless congressional Democrats’ failure to impeach this lousy administration, round up all the Republicans, and burn them at the stake! Now pay your fucking gambling debt, you worthless heap of buffalo dung.
@2 (continued) Since you guys have already co-opted Socialism and Stalinism, we’ll do what we can with Secularism and Surrender, but in the meantime pay your gambling debt, you useless glob of goldfish puke.
The biggest mistake Democrats ever made was surrendering to the Republican motherfuckers in 2000 and again in 2004. Gore and Kerry should have fought like hell to keep the fascists out of power, no matter how long it took or how much it cost. I hope the Democratic Party leaders have learned their lesson, but if they haven’t, we at the grass roots have a job to do.
@4 “Higher gas prices
Collapse of financial markets
Inflation and possibly stagflation (look it up… google “jimmy carter”)
People losing their homes
food prices out of fucking sight
banks going under.”
And you think all of this is the fault of the party that’s out of power and isn’t making policy? Pay your gambling debt, loser.
@6 “How was this bail out approved???? Who the hell allowed this bail out to happen? And why on earth are we taxpayers saving multi-millionaires?!?”
One word: Republicans.
Sorry to swear in public, but it wasn’t me who turned “Repubicans” into a swear word.
@11 “Greed crosses party lines”
Not this kind or magnitude of greed.
@12 Oh spare us the “Democrats did it” horseshit, Michael! This is a 100% Made-In-GOP show.
@13 “aboard the American Continental jet”
Say, isn’t that what the wingnutz criticized Al Gore for?
I wonder if McCain reported those personal trips to the IRS. They’re taxable, you know. Of course he didn’t. Only the little people pay taxes.
This reeks of Hooverism. The last thing we need is federal bailouts for financial institutions. Sink or swim is the real capitalist motto.
…and we have a huge rise in the price of gas shortly before Bush’s ‘economic stimulation package’ goes into effect.
Hmmmmmmmmmnnn???
errr ahhhh
Goldy
Wasn’t it you who were praising the Feds for bailing out customers af ew months back?
This problem has a source and that source is clearly the incompetence of the Bush regime. Remember when the Repricans made so much fun of JC’s stagflation problem?
So now again we have tight credit and high oil prices and a govt that thinks it can print its way out of a crisis while Hillary wants to pander bear the problem by taxing the poor to pay for healthcare for the rich and taxing all homeowners to pay the bad debts from the bubble.
Time has come for a President who will be honest with the people and media that will stop playing stupid games with ridiculous non issues.
Lookng at the three candidates is NOT reassuring. Hillary’s pander bearing is insufferable. She has promised everything but free energy msde from human pee.
Barack is barely better, he has a more rational health plan , has talked nearly honestly about tax increases on the self-proclaimed middel classers with six fugger incomes, but like Hillary he has fallen into the jaws of the NAFTA trap.
John McC has taken the read my lips oath and apparently wants to pay for the war with magic yuan.
I knew an hnest man once, but he saw his hinesty as a reason never to run for office.
I blame a lot of this on the Mass media. Instead of blowing up REv. Wrights’ sixties fixation into a matter of antional security, why in the name of Alexander Hamilton’s ghost don’t these folks call pander bears?
The hard thing is that an intelligent voter has t decide who is lying the most cleverly.
@22 Roger
No doubt that GW B deserves huge blame buy Bill deserves some too. Not getting health care passed was a result of stupid ego driven politics. Not investing in American education or pushing harder for energy efficiency (a la Carter) were less than brilliant. Leaving the Arab Israeli mess until the last year of his terms was dumb ass.
Frankly, his/their performance in the late 90s looks good only because Bush has been the worst president since Caligula. That is some exaggeration. Robert Rubin was brilliant and Clinton doid foster Gore’s work on the Internet.
Bottom line, we need a prexy who will som4ehow ditch her or his camaign pander bear promises and, Jimmy Carter style, tell the American people the truth about:
1. energy .. it is over. we will live a poorer life style.
2. ecology … more disasters to come.
Water is scary. Fish are scary. O2 still seesm adequate buit that is all.
3. education .. ur system is third world. We survive by brain drain.
4. NAFTA is NECESSARY and shuld be expanded. US workers need to comepte with a lot cheaper folks at a time when we are running out of plentiful natural reosurces to subsidize their slaries.
5. God ain’t gonn help.
Of course we COULD declare war on Canada!
Social Security checks flowing to senior citizens, who will keep spending them, is about to become the American economy’s life ring.
@28 “Not getting health care passed was a result of stupid ego driven politics.”
And what responsibility, if any, do you think (a) Republicans, and (b) industry scare ads, have in this?
#4 Mark is Dumb of just Funny
ROFLMAO!!!! FUNNY. SO SO SO FUNNY. High gas prices are the FAULT of Nancy Pelosi? Really? ROFLMAO LOL LOL LOL LOL. Exactly what bill did she sponsor/introduce and get passed that caused this exactly? Is she now in charge of energy policy for the nation? I thought that was Dick Cheney, my misunderstanding I guess. LOL LOL LOL. Bush and the Republicans have been in charge from 2000 – 2006. You’re saying NONE of this was happening during that time? No bullshit mortgages being given out? No increase in gas prices? That’s only happened since the Democrats took back Congress in 2006? That’s your astute political analysis? And how could Nancy pass your mythical evil bill that causes our crisis, considering RETARD BUSH has a veto pen and a VETO PROOF Congress. ROFLMAO LOL LOL LOL LOL. The ‘publicans are just loosing it. LOL
Here’s a conservative British magazine’s take on the financial mayhem wrought by Bush’s recreational war in Iraq:
“Eyeing the wages of war
“Mar 13th 2008
“From The Economist print edition
“Two economists take an unflinching look at the costs of invading Iraq
“SUPPOSE that, five years ago, George Bush had asked every American household to stump up $25,000 to pay for an imminent war on Iraq. How would they have responded?
“That money … would have paid for arming, provisioning and remunerating the troops; treating the wounded; and restoring the army’s strength in the aftermath. It would have paid just compensation for the death and injury of American servicemen and contractors, and it would have covered America’s outlays on reconstruction. It would also have allowed America to subsidise the price of oil by $10 a barrel — offsetting the disruption to Iraq’s supply.
“Mr Bush never asked, of course. But this hefty sum is nonetheless just part of the toll the war may take on America by the time it is over, according to a new book by Joseph Stiglitz, a Nobel prize-winner in economics, and Linda Bilmes, a budget and public finance expert at Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government.
” … [T]hey accuse the administration of … mortgaging the nation’s future and short-changing the troops and … deceiving the public and deluding itself. …
“Great powers almost never pay for their wars up front. … But a government contemplating war should surely provide a credible advance estimate of the final bill, akin to what Mr Stiglitz and Ms Bilmes have done. If they cannot, it is a good sign they have not fully weighed the implications of their venture. If so, perhaps they should not undertake it at all.”
Quoted under fair use; for complete article and/or copyright info see http://www.economist.com/books.....d=10843030
Back to top ^^
Interesting … building a brifge requires environmental impact statement, making war does not.
I suggest we declare war on the 520 bridge and viaduct!
@33 Need some water balloons?
@30 Rabbit
How does it help to castigate the right? Hillary and Ira Magaziner badly mismanaged this effort. Dole and Moynahan were discussing a jint plan, but HRC would have none of it. They also excluded most fo the country’s experts (e.g. Group Health and Kaiser).
Between that debacle, her current proposal for free mortgages, her abominably run campaign, methinks the image of the superconfidant Lady from Chicago really doe s not hold water.
Coming soon:
A five dollar bill, with GW Bush’s portrait on the front, and freedom fries on the back.
To be introduced when five dollars equals one euro. Which, using present the rate of devaluation of the dollar, should be around October 2009.
THE SPEAKER DOES HAVE BIG TITS JUST SAYIN
Hey, SJ, can you explain your thinking on this comment?
NAFTA is NECESSARY and shuld be expanded. US workers need to comepte with a lot cheaper folks at a time when we are running out of plentiful natural reosurces to subsidize their slaries.
We really should take advantage of this crisis by using it as an occasion to retire ALL paper money.
About the only use for the stuff anymore is paying for call girls.
We could use holographic methods to “print” coins that would have great intrinsic value by putting a lottery number on each one. How much would people pay for the new Reagan Dollar if they new every so often one would be printed that would win a jackpot?
The new currency would be printed in gradated risk rather than graduated value. The Reagan would re3place the dollar
bill with a risk of 1 10^9 that you would get 1000. The Fed, instead of rpinting money, would just change the odds every day.
@38 BO
The lessons of economics go all the way bhack to JS Mill.
Protectionism only works when coupled to imperialism. We can protect American jobs only as long as we can prevent other countries from undercutting our production costs.
The alternatove to building TVs in Mexico is to build them here behind a high tariff wall … then the uS consumer pays a lot more for a TV then a person living in France does, raising our cost of living.
Of course if we can force our colonies, a la Britain in her hayday, to send us cheap raw materials and then sell them our expensive lbaor products, we have no problem.
The only wiggle room her eis the notion of real cost. Labor costs are hard to compare between countries that provide different sorts of subsidies … e.g. socialized medicne r a shitty environhment. Salve labor is another such example.
Of course there is anotherr out and that is to have a closed economy that does not buy anything overseas .. no oil, no cameras, etc. The ;ast currently to try that was the Soviet Union.
The Bottom Line, is the only laternative to imperialism is globalism. To ocmepte as well as possible, this means lower wages for US workers. To make that fall as small as possible we need to mange our repources … including education, a lot better thahn we have been doping.
BTW. one side effect of globaliosm is that war becomes much to expensive unless you usae it in an imperialist fashion to cntroil reources or markets.
Bottom line: to be comeptive the US needs mnajor changes in our version fo cpiatlism, including:
socialized health care
a rationaized housing model that does not require huge amounts of fuel
huge changes in education
more efficient use of capital . diverted toward investment rather than hyousing bubbles or empty stocks.
a ,uch smaller role as the world’s cop.
I am for Obama largely because I think he is the best qualified to rpovide the leadership to make these changes. His sspeaking skills DO matter. I am also impressed with his choice of advisers But, it ain’t gonna be easy!
But, SJ, does not this all lead to a non-existent middle class, and a growing wealth divide from the formerly middle but now growing lower class and the corporate ownership that uses cheap overseas labor, and then pockets the wealth into overseas accounts?
And without a middle class there is no one going to prod the government to ensure inconvinient things like civil constitutional rights? I mean with globalized cheap labor (that would then inclueds us) why the hell would they give us any rights?
And now that everybody is working for 10 bucks a day, who is gonna buy anything?
Sounds like a recipe for self induced global collapse.
But it is a sweet deal for those on the top. Until they can’t sell anything.
Then they can just hire us peasants to fight other peasants for the other guy-on-top’s stuff.
Kinda like now, but on steroids. Dark Ages all over again.
Or some sort of postmodern dystopia, like that in just about any novel by William Gibson (“Neuromancer”, etc.)
@22
The Dem’s didn’t so much do it as let it happen without much in the way of protest. Dem’s need to step up to the plate and start acting like who they claim to be.
And yeah, that’s not a miss print I really am typing this at 4.30 AM. Insomnia sucks.
I don’t think this is a case of those at the top solely benefiting from this bailout.
A little research into the situation here will make clear how bad of a situation the market is in right now. I don’t claim to be an expert on economics, but I will say though that if major financial institutions in the US begin to collapse (the $2/share sale price of a previously trading @$170/share Baer makes clear it had more problems than thought and was on the verge of doing so), it will not only harm those at the top, but the entire economy.
Yes, by bailing out some of these institutions (Baer, and the lines of credit), and lowering rates, we may favor those at the top and inhibit the international stance of the dollar, but at the same time imagine a world in which a substantial number of our country’s financial institutions collapsed. Interest rates, will increase, despite the action of the fed, as credit rates become tighter, further inhibiting economic growth, and making it even more difficult to get out of the recession we now find ourselves. Furthermore, we could begin to see the international collapse of the dollar, as the exchange rate heads further south, with undermined confidence in the US economy.
Don’t get me wrong we are in a shitty situation, and we’re paying the price now for the economic mistakes of the past (de-regulation and securitization of mortgages, Greenspan’s inaction on real estate bubble). Nonetheless, if action is not taken to preserve credit, we could see a MAJOR economic collapse (poor action on the part of the FED is often cited as one of the reasons for the Great Depression), credit is what drives our economy.
I agree we shouldn’t bail these private institutions out, especially Baer, whose culture of risk taking and greed put themselves into this situation, nonetheless, an alternative of inaction would wreak havoc on the economy and affect even the poorest American.
This isn’t a partisan issue, it’s an issue of maintaining the viability of our economy and currency by a Federal Reserve which is highly insulated from politics. Our errors of the past are catching up with us; nonetheless, ensuring the economy has a soft rather than hard depressionesque landing is paramount here. That said, the Fed’s actions are warranted.
haha Chicken little at it again, no big surprise.
27 SJ
There’s a very large difference between ‘the Feds’ (I.e., the Congress) who were proposing a plan to help strapped homeowners, most of which involved things like giving additional avenues to them such as allowing judges to cut interest rates on a particular mortgage and did NOT involve spending federal funds (these are the measures you claim Goldy advocated);
and
The Fed, which is the non-governmental Federal Reserve Board, which just broke its own rules by deciding unilaterally to bail out a non-bank financial entity to the tune of $30 billion.
They’re different. Learn this.
44 M
Ddmocrats were protesting the measures passed by Republicans (and, as or more often, accomplished by Executive Order or executive rule-making) all through the 2000s. Where were you? But until 2007 they were in the Congressional minority and are now more or less hostage to GOP obstruction in the Senate (you know that they’re still on track for a huge record number of filibusters, don’t you?) and presidential veto.
RR is right, this is a Republican show.
At the opening, the DJIA dropped (like a brick) another 150 points, until JP Morgan stepped in and bought out Bear Sterns (but only AFTER the U.S. government’s commitment to guarantee/subsidize it’s portfolio).
I don’t know what Morgan Stanely management will get in the buyout (details are not yet available, and may never be fully public). But the clear winner in this is JP Morgan. That firm is buying a huge loan portfolio at pennies on the dollar, a portfolio which is now pretty much guaranteed against default by the U.S. government – or more correctly, by you and me, the U.S. Taxpayers.
So keep your eyes out next year for the announcement of huge bonuses to JP Morgan management for working that deal, which they will defend by saying that they took a “couragious risk” in buying Bear Sterns, and hoping that by then you have forgotten that it was financed and guaranteed against loss by the U.S. government.
So as of 8:00 a.m. pacific time, the DJIA was only down 16 points at the close – AFTER trading based upon the JP Morgan announcement and the Fed’s emergency 1/4 point rate cut – announced on a Sunday, two days before another expected one-point cut on Tuesday (tomorrow).
These rescue operations seem to be coming at least every other day now. I wonder what tricks are still left in the bag for Wednesday?
The Republican and Democratic parties still have a basic difference in how to handle the economy.
The Republican answer is, and always has been, to give benefits to the wealthiest, and justify it to the “masses” by arguing that the benefits will “trickle down” to the lower classes. In other words, huge cash infusions in the form of tax cuts, federal contracts, fed intervention, etc. by the taxpayer can be re-earned by the little guy by mopping the floors or cutting the grass of the mansions owned by those who most directly benefit from the GOP’s largess. Even Reagan’s budget director Stockman admitted that supply-side economics wasn’t anything more than trickle-down economic theory. That “trickling down” you feel is really you getting pissed upon.
Of course, now even the rationale of “trickle down” benefits is so much garbage. Republican efforts to give benefits to the wealthy is in no way targeted to make sure that those benefits stay in the U.S. On the contrary, these days the combination of outsourced labor and corporate shells located in foreign countries have pretty much guaranteed that as little benefit as possible flows to the benefit of the American worker.
In contrast, the Democrats focus their efforts on the grass roots of the economic efforts, providing money and jobs to the working class in the theory that if they have money available to spend, everyone benefits.
@47: Exactly!
Seattle Jew – Read what Daddy Love wrote and learn – it ain’t the same to allow hard working people who have been hoodwinked by false claims of lenders to stay in their homes and try to pay off a reasonable mortgage rate – compared to just bailing out a company (Bear Stearns)for financial mismanagement and trying to reap the maximum profit by risking it all.
Quit trying to make false analogies and sound “bipartisan” – you end up looking stupid.
Also: comparing McCain in any way to the democrats on banking – what a laugh – McCain was the original Keating 5 guy – giving breaks to the banking industry.
It was Reagan who led the charge for deregulation of the banks – and once again we are paying for his stupidity.
@49: Make no mistake, there are more to come. I’m betting that Lehman is next.
Of course, the White House was right on top of the situation, patting itself on the back for being “on top of the situation”, while at the same time cautioning against “excessive government interference” in the housing markets, yet praising the Fed’s recent bailouts, and re-assuring the American people that “…another thing is for certain: We’ve taken strong, decisive action,” but that the White House didn’t exert any influence on the Fed, but that “Bush had been kept informed of the Fed’s intended actions through a variety of people, but that he was not personally involved in making or approving the decision.”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23673100/
In other words, the government shouldn’t get involved, but it was good that it did, and that although he wasn’t involved in the decision, he should get the credit for being on top of the decision and making the tough decisions.
Oh, brother!!!!!!! Talk about Orwellian double-speak!
@51 correctnotright says:
it ain’t the same to allow hard working people who have been hoodwinked by false claims of lenders to stay in their homes and try to pay off a reasonable mortgage rate – compared to just bailing out a company (Bear Stearns)for financial mismanagement and trying to reap the maximum profit by risking it all.
Sorry grasshopper but you fail ec 1. This has nothing t do with fairness. It has to do with liquidity, with capital needed t run our economy. The only one COULD achoeve this in the long run while protecting the lttle guy would be to create some sort of retrospective insurance to reduce the risk to the banks so they could carry these loans.
Otherwise all you are doing is blowint the mney into the fire.
Quit trying to make false analogies and sound “bipartisan” – you end up looking stupid.
Hunhhh??? I am ANYTHING BUT bipartisan,
Also: comparing McCain in any way to the democrats on banking – what a laugh – McCain was the original Keating 5 guy – giving breaks to the banking industry.
It was Reagan who led the charge for deregulation of the banks – and once again we are paying for his stupidity.
ctd.
On being “bi”
I am not bipartisan but I do try to be consistent in my views as opposed to the effin parties that have no consistent philosophy.
There is nothing consistent about Bushism or liberalism. Both are filled with inconsistencies.
I think I am consistent. My basic beliefs are Jeffersonian. I feel the purpose of government is to maxiomize opportunity. That means I believe in anything that will decrease class barriers. Unlike Jefferson, I see this belief as being consistent with socialism… but then TJ changes hugely when he had to run the country.
I am also a tradtiojnalist in that I believe in respect for traditions … e.g. marriage, .. as long as they do not interfere with the rights to equal opportunity. That is why I favor a next of kin law abut oppose gay marriage.
Another consistent principle that gets me into trouble is that I try very hard to be objective. When Gold tells me that Dino is some sort of half witted radical rightist, I research the specifics and found that some of Goldy’s claims were wrong. OTOH, I also find certain people .. Darryl, Lee, Goldy, Roger, others here often know things I do not so I try to learn.
Let mne give you a specific example … why I support Obama and oppose HRC? First, I was a very ealry HRC supporter .. maybe voted for her as much as Bill in their foirst campaign until … I discovered that her cliam to bea world class lawyer was made up. Simialry, I found her claim to have worked closely with Edelman was exaggerated. Finally I was utterly turned off by the way she treated the DC schools when Chelsea’s time to choose school came.
Later, I was turned arounf by her magnificent supprt for Bill and the stule she used in the Senate. So I expected to WORK for her in 08.
BUT, when BHO appeared, I also read about him. I read impressive articles about his intelleigence, his plans impressed me, and he made very imprssive choices of advisers. So, like many Obamites I shifted WHILE retaining respect for her.
Now, she had run a disastrous campaign. I do not just mean losing, I mean undermining the new politics that Obama has fomented. Her choices of advisers are horrid? Penn???
So, I have lost a lot of respect for her.
I think I am being objective.
Rog Rabbit–
Did you get out of National Oilwell Varco like I told you to??
Down 6 today.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=NOV
I bought Wells Fargo today @ $27.25
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=WFC
I have been sitting on the sidelines for awhile now.
This is my 1st move back in.
Wells Fargo is not into this subprime mess like other Financials. Think about it.
Re: mark the rageneck
So Doug Feith…”the fucking stupidest guy in the room” has company at HorsesAss.
Who knew?
I heard a good quip about this mess.
“Profits are privatized, but loses are socialized.” If the company does well, they are capitalist and demand all the profits, but if the company is totally corrupt and/or incompetent, they become socialist and demand the tax payers bail them out.
@35 The right and the ripoff health care industry did a hit job on Hillary’s plan (and her personally), and you think the collapse of health care reform was her fault?
Are you serious?
@37 “THE SPEAKER DOES HAVE BIG TITS JUST SAYIN”
This is what passes for political debate in rightwing circles these days.
@39 “We really should take advantage of this crisis by using it as an occasion to retire ALL paper money.”
At the rate Bush and Bernanke are making American money worthless, it should all be retired by the end of this year.
In the future, all U.S. domestic transactions will be conducted in euros.
@42 “But it is a sweet deal for those on the top. Until they can’t sell anything. Then they can just hire us peasants to fight other peasants for the other guy-on-top’s stuff. Kinda like now, but on steroids. Dark Ages all over again.”
Exactly, and that’s where it’s going. And here we were lulled into a belief they wanted to take us back to the 19th century, when all along their target has been the 14th century.
@45 “( … had more problems than thought …)”
Is this the latest euphemism for “lying”?
As in lying to regulators, shareholders, depositors, and media.
What do you wanna bet that top Bear executives were dumping their own stock before this leaked?
@50 “Republican efforts to give benefits to the wealthy is in no way targeted to make sure that those benefits stay in the U.S.”
Actually, Republicans have been facilitating the flight of Republican capital from the U.S., because they understand better than anyone else what they’re doing to the U.S. economy.
@56 When did you tell me to get out of NOV? And why should I? Sure, it’s down from its peak last year (isn’t everything?), but do you really think demand will collapse for oil drilling equipment and offshore platforms now that a 100-billion-barrel oilfield has been discovered off the coast of Brazil?
“( … had more problems than thought …)”
Is this the latest euphemism for “lying”?
It’s actually a close paraphrase of Obama’s recent comments about his Rezko graft.
Even her few friends admit that the Beast bitched it up. Even the Democrats on Russert yesterday ** admitted that a 1994 healthcare compromise was in the works (Dole signed on) until shrill Hillary demanded total obedience to her Magaziner Mush bill, 1300+ pages long, for a top-down redo of 14% of our economy.
(** Every guest Russert had yesterday was a Democrat, making it possible for Rabbit to claim that Big Media, BM, are in the tank for McCain.)
Remember that The New Republic put the nail in the locked-box coffin of Hillary Care. That’s how Betsy McCoughey got her forst 15 minutes.
Actually, perhaps we should put George W. Bush on the face of a $5.00 bill. Then put an “X” through the five, and write $1.00 instead. That would provide a reminder to everyone about the Republican contribution to the economic vitality of the U.S., for generations to come.
Democratic Economic Plan, 20th Century: Jobs for the unemployed (New Deal & C.C.C.), social security for the aged, medicare for the sick & aged, minimum wages for the lowest-paid workers, support of collective bargaining rights for workers, available home ownership for everyone (under GI Bill, FHA & HUD), affordable college education (G.I. Bill, Pell grants, etc.). Note that Republicans fought tooth and nail against EVERY ONE of these proposals, and still are trying to sabatoge them whenever they think the opportunity presents itself (i.e., Bush’s plan to privatize social security).
Republican Economic Plan, especially 2001~2008: Tax cuts for the wealthiest americans, out-sourcing of jobs overseas, privatize social security, protect huge salaries & bonuses for corporate executives, decreased government oversight of business & financial institutions and giving U.S. taxpayers the tab when it fails, de-funding most domestic government functions as a pretext for privatization, discouragement of collective bargaining or any employee rights with respect to their employer, etc., etc., etc.
I notice the wingnuts aren’t bragging about the great economic success of the Bush administration, anymore. They keep trying to change the subject.
Wells Fargo closed at $28.78
YIPPEE!
4.2% Dividend (actually higher for me because I was smart enough to buy @ $27.25)!
Rog–
I told you I was basically out of the market months about 11 months ago.
Lots of L-T Capital Gains this year===so we don’t get the $600 rebate and pay lots of 15% taxes.
My broker has a plan to average in on a number of stocks.
Wells Fargo was a great opportunity this AM.
Still is.
Go Rog…buy some.
PS–
NOV will probably be ok. I haven’t bought back in.
Sold quite a few months ago around $80.
@ #4 – Mark the Redneck – if you want to blame this one on the Democrats, you are about as senile as 1000 year old witch. You are a piece of shit!
I don’t see how this country is any different from Communism.
73 But, all the financial mess and gas prices happened
while democrats controlled congress. Sooooo it is their
fault. All of it . I dont know how they managed it but
they did it. McCain will fix it and will win by a landslide.
Mark, you are a pathetic looser.
Here’s an interesting story as to how the feds manage things and how they got in charge and who supported them and who didn’t
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23 673053/
I’d like Obama to answer the trying questions, we all know Hilary will run in circles with her answers, but what is Obama’s plan to fix this economy? Seems most politicians agree with the Bear bail out…any ideas?
Any ideas?
I assume “go fuck yerself” is not what you are trolling for?
@78 – I want Obama to smash Clinton with a good plan to get us out of this hell hole…by telling her or anyone else to “go fuck yerself” is the only idea you can come up?
No wonder our country is in this mess it’s in!
Hannah, you have to excuse Blatantly Obvious/Chadt. You are a proven non-16%er so he takes umbrage to your inquisitiveness.