As has been widely reported, people are beginning to question the results from yesterday’s Washington state Republican caucus, which WSRP Chair Luke Esser officially called in favor of John McCain by the narrowest of margins. And with official returns remaining frozen at 87.5% of precincts reporting, no wonder conspiracy theories are starting to flourish.
Unlike the Democrats, the WSRP has failed to post county-by-county numbers, and likewise, few county GOP organizations have publicly reported results. But while this frustrates efforts at more in depth analysis, it does raise some questions about the relevance of the numbers already reported.
For example, while statewide results show McCain with a slight lead, results posted in both Cowlitz, Clark and Franklin counties show the putative front runner getting his ass kicked, coming in fourth behind Huckabee, Romney and Paul in various orders, while incomplete results from Pierce County shows a very close race. So where did McCain garner his lead?
The WSRP website only reports percentages, but FOX News reports precinct delegate totals (from where they get their data, hell if I know,) showing McCain with a mere 242 delegate lead over Huckabee, 3,468 to 3,226. Quite clearly, McCain owes his apparent victory to King County, where he relatively thumped Huckabee 1,321 to 798, for a 523 delegate advantage.
Okay… it’s not so unusual for population dense King County to sway a statewide election, but hidden in these numbers is a question nobody else seems to have asked: is a precinct delegate from King County equivalent to a precinct delegate from Cowlitz county in terms of the number of voters they represent, and the influence they have on the final, state delegate allocation? And the answer, apparently, is “No.”
Accord to Rule 2 of the WSRP’s Caucus and Convention Rules:
Each county shall determine for its convention the minimum number of potential delegates provided that each county shall allocate among the precincts a number of potential delegates to be elected which is at least two (2) times the number of precincts in its county. Automatic delegates under Rule 14 shall be in addition to the number of delegates allowed for election under this rule.
What that means is that each county organization is free to allocate as many potential delegates to their county convention as they want, as long as that number is at least twice the number of precincts. This makes the statewide precinct delegate count as reported by the WSRP virtually meaningless, as the relative value of a precinct delegate is simply not comparable from county to county.
One thing we can discern from the numbers though is that Republican turnout does not appear to have been as universally robust as party officials have claimed. So far, the only county party I’ve found to have published their potential delegate allocation was Thurston County, with a potential 624 county convention delegates (not including automatic delegates) apportioned amongst their 299 precincts; how many of these were actually allocated yesterday, we don’t yet know. But in King County we do know that only 4195 delegates were allocated amongst its 2,555 precincts, 915 fewer than the absolute minimum number of potential delegates that would have been made available under party rules. Likewise, Franklin County allocated only 118 delegates amongst its 93 precincts, leaving at a bare minimum, 36% of potential delegates unallocated.
How does this happen? A KCGOP insider explained that at some precincts, no one showed up, while at others, not enough people showed up to fill all the delegate slots; it’s “not unusual at all” he told me. Almost a thousand delegates at least went unallocated for want of caucus goers in King and Franklin counties alone, and possibly many, many more than that — we can’t know for sure until we know the actual number of potential delegates available. That’s not exactly consistent with claims of high voter turnout.
Or maybe, turnout was as heavy as party officials claim, in which case King County might be the first place Huckabee’s lawyers might want to look for missing delegates?
UPDATE:
Chelan County allocated 170 delegates yesterday, exactly double the number of their 85 precincts. FYI, Huckabee beat McCain 25% to 22%.
UPDATE, UPDATE:
The WSRP just updated their results page. McCain leads Huckabee 25.4% to 23.8% with 93.3% of precincts reporting. Or so they say.
UPDATE [Lee]: This Sound Politics public blog post from Friday by Mike McGavick’s former New Media Director, Tim Goddard, gives some insight into the mindset of GOP insiders here over the fact that McCain has so little support from the Republican base. After reading his “Point One” and “Point Two”, it should be abundantly clear why Mike Huckabee is suspicious over what happened yesterday.
Richard Pope does not equal a KCGOP insider. I only say that because the “insider” you attributed the above remarks to seems to hit, point-for-point Pope’s postings on one of my comment threads.
Don @1,
It was not Richard Pope. (I hadn’t even read Richard’s comments in the thread.) And that’s the last I’ll comment on his identity as I promised anonymity.
After the 2004 gubernatorial election and the persistent Rossi-fed paranoia that has marked this state’s Republican Party, this fiasco has more delicious irony than I’ve encountered in ages. We should be ever so grateful for the entertainment the wingnuts provide us.
More GOP chicanery. They stopped counting the votes in Florida and now do the same here to get the result they want. They routinely fault King County for slow vote counting, but can’t even post actual numbers or complete a comparatively small tally. What clowns. Huck said on MTP today that his campaign was considering legal action. Like him, I smell a fraud — at best, incompetence. I suppose the GOP delegate counter will want to run for King County Auditor.
So, when does Dino Rossi do a press release blaming Christine Gregoire and Dean Logan for intentional fraud?
I have a question for any GOPers out there (or maybe Goldy knows from his anonymous sources):
Since you are using the Primary to determine a portion of your delegates, how do you decide who will actually be the delegates? The voters don’t actually have any direct say in that on the ballot. All they get to choose is the candidate.
Are all the rest of your delegates Party insiders?
Don’t take this as a snide question. I’m really curious about how this works.
To add to the fun, at every level of the WSRP system:
Heey Ron…Pass the popcorn, please…
It is becoming clear why the Repubs are so sure that the Dems “stole” the governors election in 2004. It is because the GOP itself has a policy of stealing elections. The most well known examples are the presidential elections in Florida in 2000 and in Ohio in 2004.
Now they are even trying to steal caucus votes from themselves.
The Repubs steal elections and so they think everyone does. It proves the old saying, the thief thinks everyone is a thief.
And remember, you too can be a Republican. At least for as long as it takes to mark your mail-in ballot and get it to the mailbox.
19 national delegates are at stake in the WA Republican Primary: 1 in each Congressional District, and 10 proportionally statewide (with a 20% threshold).
I would guess Huckabee or Paul won in every CD but the 7th, and Paul is on the bubble as far as statewide threshold is concerned.
Huckabee? Or Ron Paul?
Help me decide, O wise HA’ers!
So this is what the Republicans come up with when left to their own devices?
Spare us four years of Rossi-ism.
@6
The delegates assigned through the primary are just party insiders. Average Joe has no chance to become one unlike in the caucuses where everyone and their mother could be.
RonK @10,
I’m voting for Huckabee.
Thanks, Phil.
Just for comparison, at my Democratic caucus yesterday, there were 61 attendees. Only four were what would be described as “party regulars,” meaning they are actually active to some extent in the local Party. Of the six delegates and six alternates selected, only one was a “party regular” and that person was selected as an alternate.
rd says:” More GOP chicanery. They stopped counting the votes in Florida and now do the same here to get the result they want.”
Grow up fool. Stop listening and reading the warm white sticky kool-aid web sites.
Al Gore admitted he screwed up when he didn’t ask for a state-wide recount. HE screwed his own pooch and admitted it.
Are you related to headless lucy?
DonWard @ 1
Sorry Don, I am neither KCGOP nor an insider. When I first read Goldy’s post, I thought that YOU might have been the KCGOP insider that he had consulted. Do you still go to Drinking Liberally a lot on Tuesday nights?
Goldy, thank you for posting the link to the Washington State Republican convention and caucus rules. I tried to find it on the King County and state party websites, but it wasn’t there at all. The state GOP just isn’t into a transparency policy whatsoever — unlike the Democrats, who post their rules pretty prominently on their state and county websites.
In case anybody didn’t click Goldy’s link, he had to go to the WHATCOM COUNTY GOP website to find an online copy of the state Republican party rules.
http://www.whatcomgop.com/docu....._Rules.pdf
the horror, the horror … or, REALISTICALLY
the justice the justice.
having a bit of liberal in me, I do feel a bit bad for the poor dupes who’ve supported the fascists while the fascist leaders have worked tirelessly to turn us all into fucking slaves for the wal-marts of the world.
yawn – well, that pity party is over.
how about this oh repug-li-dupes
YOU GOT WHAT YOU PAID FOR!
ha ha ha ha!
your leaders lie to you about opportunity and freedom and accountability and the big boys get all the opportunity FREE from accountabilty, so you can work your ass off for them for fucking peanuts!
I only wish they had stolen the election for Huck-A-Nut — it is like voting for Linda Smith or Ellen Craswell all over again! ha ha ha.
I love open primaries.
Did the Supremes stop the Florida recount in 2000 or did they not? Yes or no?
How long did you practice to become such an idiot?
Good going, Luke “The Truth” Esser! Time to drop that stupid monkier you’ve had since the UW days. Election hijinks like this one are one of the many reasons the Republican party in this state is such a local joke. Now you’ve made it a national one.
Okay, look at Rule 37, on Page 11 of the PDF for the state GOP national convention delegate allocation rules:
http://www.whatcomgop.com/docu....._Rules.pdf
19 national convention delegates are chosen based upon the primary results that will take place on February 19, 2007. The winner of the popular vote in each congressional district gets one committed delegate, for a total of 9 chosen from the congressional districts. The other 10 delegates are chosen statewide, based upon the statewide vote. The candidates getting at least 20% statewide share these 10 delegates pro-rata, based on their respective percentages of the statewide vote.
The other 18 delegates are chosen, two from each congressional district, by the state convention delegates from each congressional district. Basically, it is a winner-take-all process — whoever can muster a majority of each congressional district caucus will get those two national convention delegates, if their supporters cast their votes intelligently.
I could explain this in more detail, but I won’t.
Somehow, I would suspect that McCain only received a substantial plurality in the 7th congressional district. So it is quite possible that McCain will only end up with 2 national convention delegates from yesterday’s caucuses, while supporters of Huckabee, Paul and Romney will be able to control the other 16 national convention delegates. Even if McCain had a bare plurality in other congressional districts, the supporters of other candidates could “gang up” on McCain and totally freeze him out the the CD’s two caucus chosen delegate positions.
On the other hand, McCain might be able to “clean up” in the primary on February 19, since all he needs is a bare plurality in a congressional district to get its primary delegate. He will probably be able to pull this off in places other than the 7th CD.
Statewide, McCain will probably have to share the 10 primary delegates with Huckabee. I don’t see Paul or Romney meeting the 20% threshold in the primary (although Romney certainly would have done so, had he stayed in the race).
Goldy — you also need to read state GOP Rule 14. All Republican PCO’s (serving since at least 12/14/2007) are automatically precinct delegates, without the need to be elected by their precinct’s voters. The only requirement is that the PCO must actually attend the precinct caucus in order to be an automatic delegate.
There were 785 Republican PCO’s elected in the September 2006 primary — which happens to be the lowest number in at least 50 years in King County (less than 1/3 of the 2,555 precincts being filled):
http://www.metrokc.gov/elections/200609/PCORep.xls
This number could have gone up or down between September 2006 and December 14, 2007. If anything, it probably went up slightly from 785, as some candidate supporters may have requested PCO appointments, so as to be in a better position to support their candidate as an automatic delegate.
So the King County GOP would have been required to allocate a minimum of 5,110 precinct delegates — at least two times the number of the 2,555 precincts in the county. And assuming 785 PCO’s, this makes a potential of 5,895 precinct delegates.
However, King County only chose 4,195 precinct delegates. This is a shortage of about 1,300 unfilled precinct delegate positions, caused either by an insufficient number of voters showing up, voters showing up but not enough willing to serve as precinct delegates, and probably more than a handful of PCO’s not even attending their own caucus.
This basically means that “NO SHOW” got 1,300 precinct delegates, or 22% of the potential Republican caucus vote in King County. Since McCain had 1,321 precinct delegates, it remains to be seen whether or not “NO SHOW” outpolled McCain in King County. (This would be the case, for example, if the King County GOP had at least 807 PCO’s that were eligible to be automatic precinct delegates, or if more than the minimum 5,110 elected precinct delegate positions were available.)
Got carried away in my enthusiasm, and mixed up primary-determined delegates with caucus-determined delegates. Upshot: we really don’t know how anybody stands vis a vis the proportionally determined national delegates.
Some things we do know:
1. The rules essentially create a winner-take-all, “tyranny of the majority” delegate selection process at county or legislative district levels. Whatever coalition can muster 50%+1 of the attending delegates can fully determine everybody who makes it to State (ex some ex-officio delegates).
2. At State convention, where half the national delegates are picked (again, tyranny of the majority winner take all, King County doesn’t swing that much weight
King County provided only 200% of Bush/Cheney’s total in 2004 … and probably less of the legislative vote (where many seats were barely or uncontested).
Upshot: Huckabee has probably already won (the caucus side of the game, with 18 state delegates at stake), since he can probably assemble 50% voting blocs in counties holding 50% of the state delegates. [He may have to trade off a few seats to Ron Paul people to secure this stranglehold.]
King County D’s can still affect the primary-determined single seats allocated to the 7th, 8th, 1st & 2nd CD’s, plus the 10 primary-proportional seats determined statewide.
RonK @ 10, Goldy @ 13
Planning a little more election fraud? Double-voting must be addictive.
You do realize that you MUST check the box on your ballot envelope that says:
“I declare that I am a member of the Republican Party and I have not participated and will not participate in the 2008 precinct caucus or convention system of any other party.”
RonK @ 24
Excellent analysis. However, the composition of the state convention is less important, than the composition of each congressional district’s state convention delegation. The 18 caucus delegates are all chosen at the CD level, two by the state convention delegates from each CD.
One slight twist and potential for minor mischief is that the candidates do not choose the delegates allocated by the presidential primary. Instead, those delegates are chosen by either the state convention as a whole (10 at-large) or by the respective CD caucuses (1 from each CD).
Let’s suppose McCain wins the primary in the 8th CD, but Huckabee/Paul/Romney state convention delegates are dominant from the 8th CD. A Huckabee supporter could be chosen to be the “McCain delegate” from the 8th CD. This person would be obligated to vote for McCain on the first ballot, but for all other purposes would be a Huckabee supporter.
Same logic applies at the state convention level. For example, McCain might get 6 at-large delegates from the primary, and Huckabee 4 at-large delegates. But if Huckabee’s supporters and allies can control the state convention, the 6 McCain slots could end up being filled by 2 Paul supporters, 2 Romney supporters, and 2 Huckabee supporters — all of whom would only owe an obligation to vote for McCain on the first ballot.
RonK @ 24
“King County D’s can still affect the primary-determined single seats allocated to the 7th, 8th, 1st & 2nd CD’s, plus the 10 primary-proportional seats determined statewide.”
Did you say the SECOND CD? Are you going to drive out to Stevens Pass to rally the 374 voters of Skykomish and Baring to cast Republican ballots, and create mischief for McCain? :)
Pope @ 26 — Looks like you are correct, per the Whatcom document – undated, but presumably the latest and greatest.
You are correct also that a working majority of the state convention can ride roughshod over national delegate selection. I’m not clear as to the status and enforceability of cadidate pledges.
Upshot: caucus-determined delegates (1 each) probably go to the top two finishers in each of 9 CDs. [Probably McCain in some, but not all, CDs; Hucakbee in most/all, and likely Ron Paul in some.]
1 more goes to the primary plurality winner in each CD. [Probably McCain in some CDs, Huckabee in others, maybe Ron Paul in spots?]
10 are allocated proportionally, where Huck beats the 20% threshold – Paul conceivably makes it – McCain conceivably misses (though Paul is presumably stronger in caucuses, McCain in mail-in balloting).
And convention shenanigans are possible within the rules.
Pope @ 27 — 2nd CD included for technical completeness only, and for convenience of our reader or readers who may reside therein.
Variations will apply to Snohomish, Pierce Co, etc.
Ed Rollins on Luke Esser: “bad judgment”. First time in 40 years Rollins has seen such conduct. Huck wants a “full investigation”. Lawyers on their way. From Fox News no less:
http://embeds.blogs.foxnews.co.....e-results/
Planning a little more election fraud? Double-voting must be addictive.
Some in your corrupt party don’t even think twice about it.
RonK @ 29
The so-called caucus results — while likely correlated to the final outcome — are actually of no binding significance in the final outcome.
Here is what happens next. The GOP precinct delegates selected yesterday will be invited to attend the county convention. In certain larger counties (including King, Pierce and possibly certain others), there will also be caucuses by legislative district (for King and Pierce counties definitely) and possibly either by legislative or county council/commissioner district (optional in Benton, Clark, Kitsap, Snohomish, Spokane, Thurston, Whatcom, and Yakima counties).
If a county is required to have legislative district caucuses, as is the case in King and Pierce counties, then the state convention delegates from that county must be chosen by the legislative district caucuses. The county convention will then be mostly a cheerleading rally, as the state convention delegates have already been chosen.
In eight intermediate size counties (Benton, Clark, Kitsap, Snohomish, Spokane, Thurston, Whatcom, and Yakima), the county GOP has the option of holding smaller caucuses before the county convention. And they can divide the county either by legislative district or by county council/commissioner district to hold these smaller caucuses. If these smaller caucuses are held, then they are used to select the state convention delegates, and the county convention is simply a cheerleading rally. If smaller caucuses are not held, then the county convention selects the state convention delegates.
In the other 29 counties, there will not be any smaller caucuses, and the state convention delegates will definitely be selected by the county conventions.
YLB @ 32: “Some in your corrupt party don’t even think twice about it.”
And few in your party think (for themselves) at all.
When are you guys going to change your party mascot to a big pitcher of kids’ drink that crashes through walls?
RonK @ 29 (continued)
Those are parts of the rules. But now the fun part begins in the state GOP caucus/convention process.
First of all, it is quite common for precinct delegates selected at GOP caucuses not to show up for the legislative district caucuses or county convention. And there are rarely any alternates selected to take the place of delegates who do not attend, since many precincts tend to have fewer attendees (or willing delegates) than the allowable number of precinct delegates and alternates.
So there will be jockeying by various factions to make sure that their precinct delegates attend the next level of the process, and to convert precinct delegates to a different point of view. (Unlike Democratic precinct delegates, GOP precinct delegates are not formally pledged to any candidate.) And there will be a drop-off in attendance, usually anywhere between 1/4 and 1/2 of precinct delegates will not attend the LD caucus or county convention where state convention delegates are chosen.
Next, state convention delegates are chosen by a winner-take-all type of mechanism at either the LD caucus or county convention, as the case may be. The precinct delegates vote on a ballot for as many delegates as there are positions to be elected. The ballot simply contains the names of the delegate candidates, and no indication of their presidential preference. There can be as many as four ballots, with a time consuming vote counting process, to ensure that the state convention delegates are elected by a majority vote.
So if a given faction or coalition has a majority of the precinct delegates attending an LD caucus or county convention, they can elect ALL of the state convention delegates chosen at this meeting. Of course, they have to hope that their supporters will vote for the necessary candidates.
In practice, the GOP precinct delegates are not exactly a monolithic group, and state convention delegates are not formally pledged to any candidate, so total dominance by one faction or coaltion in selecting ALL of the state convention delegates is only rarely achieved. But one faction or coalition can still elect the overwhelming majority.
Normally, the appropriate king-makers in the LD or county will put together a recommended “slate” of state convention delegate candidates. These “slate” candidates may be heavily weighted towards one presidential candidate, or may be a compromise coalition of, let’s say, Huckabee and Paul supporters. And the “slate” may include a prominent person or two, even if they support a rival candidate. For example, if Huckabee and Paul dominated in the 5th LD and formed a coalition “slate”, they might include Dino Rossi as a “slate” candidate for state convention delegate, even if Rossi supported McCain (and even though Rossi might oppose election of this “slate”), simply because Rossi is a god-like figure among Republican activists.
If a “slate” is recommended by a dominant faction or coalition, then odds are that almost all of its recommended candidates will make it to the top of the list with a majority vote and become state convention delegates. However, since there are often dozens of delegate positions on the ballot, all ballot is by secret ballot, numerous people run in addition to “slate” candidates, and some of these “independent” candidates can be personally popular among the attendees, there are often non-slate state convention delegates selected as well.
As I said before, the ballots for state convention delegates can be quite long, and may include over 100 names for a few dozen positions. Only the names of delegate candidates appear on the ballot, and no presidential preference. The delegate candidates are usually invited to speak for 30 to 60 seconds about themselves before voting starts, and they may say which presidential candidate they prefer and anything else about themselves to impress attendees into voting for them.
RonK @ 29 (continued)
When the Republicans have their state convention, a similar process is used to elect national convention delegates. As for the delegates “chosen” by the primary, they are also elected by state convention delegates.
First, the GOP state convention delegates break down into caucuses, based on the CD in which each delegate resides. Each CD caucus elects three Republican national convention delegates. One position is reserved for RNC candidates who pledge themselves to the primary winner in that CD. The other two positions are chosen by whatever process ends up resulting in a majority vote in that CD, without any indication of presidential preference. There can be up to four ballots, with a process of eliminating low vote getters, until the RNC delegates are chosen by a majority vote of the CD caucus attendees.
Second, a similar process is used by the GOP state convention as a whole to choose the 10 at-large delegates allocated by the statewide primary vote (as pertains to candidates getting at least 20%).
As for the pledged delegates, the presidential campaigns have no say-so in who these people are. A Huckabee supporter can be a candidate for a pledged McCain RNC delegate. They simply pledge to vote for McCain on the first ballot, and nothing more.
Great analysis of a very confusing process.
Pope @ 33 — Be that as it may, isn’t it very likely that Huckabee has already won WA (control of the convention and major national delegate share, when county weights rather than raw precinct delegate counts are taken into consideration)?
RonK @ 38
That is quite possible, given that McCain won King County pretty big, and King County only selects 20% or so of state convention delegates, but may have had quite a bit more than 20% of precinct delegates.
RonK @ 38 (continued)
State convention delegates are determined by the amount of “Republican vote” in the county or sub-unit (generally legislative district) from which state convention delegates are selected.
This “Republican vote” is determined by adding five figures from 2004 for Republican nominees (if any): President, Governor, Attorney General, State Representative Position # 1, and State Representative Position # 2. So King County gets a much smaller portion of state convention delegates, and the LD’s in Seattle get particularly pathetic portions (especially if they didn’t have candidates for state representative in 2004!).
This formula has been used for several presidential election cycles. So these figures for 1996 were used to apportion state convention delegates in 2000 (also in 1998), and these same figures from 2000 were used to apportion state convention delegates in 2004 (also in 2002).
I always thought it was funny that the state GOP used the Attorney General numbers as part of the formula to determine “Republican vote”. State GOP leadership really wasn’t interested in running ANY candidate for Attorney General in either 1996 or 2000, so I became the GOP nominee by default. I got virtually no support from the state GOP in either 1996 or 2000. And in 2000, I was even accused of not being a “real Republican”, due to switching parties. But in spite of all of this, 1/5 of the state convention delegates were allocated in 1998, 2000, 2002 and 2004, based on how many people had voted for me!
Here’s a pretty awesome smack-down of the clown prince of state party chairs from Talking Points Memo.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/177863.php
So, I got a question…where’s all the name calling and purple prose? OH…Sorry I FERRR-got…
It’s OK if you’re a republican. I hope the Huckster fucks ’em REAL good!!!!
wow- This is now going national news and Luke Esser and the Washinton State Republican party have major egg on their face.
Here are some fun links:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/177867.php
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/177863.php
Gee – where is Piper to tell us how much more civilized the republican caucuses are – and how few republicans actually turned out.
Well – things were so civilized in the Good “Ol Party that the vote count and the declaration of McCain as the winner is mighty suspicious.
Not that the republicans in Washington are really concerned with proper voting….or any actual voter fraud.
How do you spell h-y-p-o-c-r-i-t-e-s?
@41: Rujax – sorry – I didn’t see your post until I posted.
I am laughing…..
No Prob cnr…it’s gonna be a blast watching these fucktards twist in the wind!!
Luke Esser sound like the mafia henchman:
I just wanna make suuua the right poison wins de vote. Heck, we don’t need to count it up…we know who is gonna win anyways…right.
Huckabees lawyer is calling? Honey, tell him I’m out counting votes…and bring me another beer.
Now where were those calculation – damn – I lost the envelope again…
that would be sounds like
Geee…wonder what all the trollfucks have to say about this??
(chirp…chirp…chirp)
Some of the numbers that are most significant about Republican precinct caucuses in Washington yesterday:
1. About 20,000 voters statewide participated in the Republican caucuses. Well over 200,000 voters statewide participated in the Democratic caucuses — a ratio of better than ten-to-one.
2. At least 1,300 precinct delegate positions in King County went to candidate “NO SHOW”. These positions were not filled simply because either no one attended, or not enough people attended, in hundreds of precincts to fill the available precinct delegate positions. Candidate “NO SHOW” basically tied with John McCain in King County — who won 1,321 precinct delegates.
3. It has been over 24 hours since the precinct caucuses were completed, and L.Esser still cannot provide any meaningful or credible numbers as to the results. L.Esser simply proclaims that “93.3%” of precincts are reporting, and that McCain has “won” with “25.4%” (of something). L.Esser refuses to release a county-by-county or other detailed breakdown, provide the absolute numbers of precinct delegates (or caucus attendees) favoring each candidate, or even reveal any information about the actual number of voters attending the precinct caucuses.
@48: richard
It looks like you made the right decision to switch parties. I think I even want to vote for you next time you take on Jane Hague! Too bad I am not in your district.
@48:thanks for the update.
Let’s just start referring to him as Lesser.
Why should the votes be counted?
We don’t need no stinkin’ vote counts!
We don’t need no stinkin’ transparency in the process!
McCain wins cause Lesser says so!
Can’t you just accept that?
Richard Pope,
Having attended law school with Mr. Esser, does his inability to address this little chaotic event surprise you?
Update: Thurston County Republicans have now posted returns, and Huckabee is ahead there, as well.
http://www.thurstonrepublicans.com/default.html
Republican Precinct Caucus Results: Delegates
Huckabee 164
McCain 158
Paul 90
Romney 87
Other 3
Uncommitted 44
I’ve been staying off these boards, as what King County does about its roads and bridges really isn’t any of my business.
But this little tidbit from the Pierce County Republican website was interesting enough that I though you folks might enjoy it.
(Ref: http://www.piercegop.org/Elect.....mation.htm)
My first thought is that we had more Democrats at the caucuses over here in Gig Harbor than the Republicans could muster for the whole county.
I also noticed that while Governor Huckabee won the vote count by a small, but still significant number, somehow Senator McCain got more delegates. Odd, but we are talking about the Republicans, so perhaps the actual preferences of the folks that caucused with them is irrelavent in determining the winner.
Hey, our party leadership over here seemed to be mostly Clinton supporters, and a few of them were even a bit unpleasant to those of us in the Obama camp, but at least they counted the vote accurately and we apportioned more delegates to the candidate with the most votes.
Headless Lucy, RACIST AKA Puddybud, The Idiot…
Did the Supremes stop the Florida recount in 2000 or did they not? Yes or no?
They sure did. Because the Federal law said the Electoral College had to ratify the vote by December 18 and there was not enough time to recount the whole State in time. Al Gore wasted too much time.
So again, who’s fault is it? Al Gore.
Did he admit it? He sure did.
Keep the idiot faith? You did!
So, how long do you continue practicing idiocy? Just after you became a racist!
Headless, do a fact check for a change! I know facts and you are diametrically opposed particles.
If Luke Esser makes the Republican caucus process stink, you guys should take him to the woodshed.
Not MY job, asshole.
You obviously don’t give a shit about YOUR party’s integrity.
Proof you’re a fucking hypocrite.
Proud Leftist @ 51
No screw-up in the Washington State GOP or King County GOP surprises me anymore. As for L.Esser, I would say the fellow at least knows his math. On the other hand, I think he was under a lot of pressure from his good friend Rob McKenna and others to declare McCain the “winner”.
Keep in mind that knowing math and being able to produce complete and accurate election results require somewhat different skill sets, for the most part …
Yeah, as I recall, Luke was sportswriting for the UW Daily when Richard was on the ASUW Board of Control (with future Seattle City Councilwoman Heidi Wills and future King County Councilman Bob Ferguson).
Good times.
Anywhoo, this is unbelievably awesome to watch the State Republicans botch an election after seeing them moan nonstop about Dean Logan and election fraud in 2004 and 2005. Gee, guys, it’s not so easy, now, is it?
…so i guess that the rabid name-calling guy’s point is that the republicans stole florida2000 ‘fair and square’ since “AL Gore screwed up.” check.
anyways, in scanning the blogosphere comments made by people who claimed to be at the caucuses it appears that their candidate preference wasn’t of much concern to the party. makes me wonder what the heck it was that they were even counting. the majors are still largely leaving this alone, but i have a feeling that ed rollins’ boys are gonna kick up quite a ruckus when the (typically) republican malfeasance is given more daylight. it aint a pretty sight, and yeah — pass the popcorn! couldnt happen to a nicer party!
Terrorist @ 54
Apparently your self-vaunted memory has failed you, perhaps conveniently. Your Supreme Court shtick vis-a-vis the 2000 election has been pretty well debunked. You still haven’t explained why the Supreme Court explicitly said that their decision in that case should not be considered a precedent.
By the way, where the hell is Piper in all this?
between Seattle ‘Nice’ that pits neighbor against neighbor for eternity and suppresses alternative votes at the D caucuses and ‘counting for headlines’ at the R caucuses…I raise the flag for the appointed technically qualified election director in King County and the presidential primary with party designation and all votes counted with observers, audits, secret ballots and citizen oversight. The parties can decide the allocation of delegates in the daylight after the results are final.
Delusional Don Joe: Wrong simpleton fairy.
I posted Al Gore’s own words on this blog. I posted the two full Supreme Court decisional votes 7-2 for the full state disenfranchisement and 5-4 for the vote. It was timing delusional one. From the SCOTUS web site, not the warm white sticky kool-aid sites.
Since you have a small cranial capacity for facts have fun. Remember it was Puddy who posted the PuddyFact on Krugman being debunked and chastised by his employer.
I hear there are some receipts needing your attention. Go forth.
Pope — So McCain won a plurality of delegates in Pierce County, with 27% of county delegates (despite Huckabee’s 31% plurality in attendees).
Remains to be seen how the LD results shake out, and where the CD boundaries fall, but it appears Huckabee would have plenty of raw material and bargaining chips to forge a majority slating coalition.
Next, McCain held a (reported) 523 delegate advantage in King County … 216% of his statewide lead. He must necessarily trail Huckabee in the other 80% of the (weighted Republican) map … though as always, distribution matters.
Time to run to Costco, lay in a BIG supply of popcorn.
The other thing that no one is considering is that when the delegates actually get to the county and state convention, the Ron Paul, Huckabee, Romney and undecided will probably concentrate their ballots against the top McCain contender to prevent McCain from getting delegates. The one thing all these candidates supporters generally agree on — they cannot stand John McCain. The fact that Romney got so many votes (accurately stated, non-binding presidential preferences) in this state is a testament to this. I would love nothing better than to see these guys calling the state for the establishment non-conservative neocon and then him getting destroyed in the actual delegate voting at the state convention.
Mike_the_Moron_in_Seattle@61:
Let’s review the Al Gore Lawsuits:
1) Stop the military vote to disenfranchise the soldiers
2) Stop the absentee voters in Seminole and Martin Counties
3) Only Recount Palm Beach, Broward, Miami-Dade and Volusia Counties
Since you simpletons forgot The Florida SC on Dec. 8 ordered a statewide recount of “undervotes” only. Why? They faced the imminent deadline of Dec 12 to submit their presidential election returns. The Electoral College ratified the vote on Dec 18. Yet you all loved that decision. And that was the decision blown apart by the 7-2 SCOTUS vote!
Here is a snippet of what the The Chicago Tribune wrote:
“In fact, it probably is impossible to design a study that would determine the winner of the presidential election. That is particularly true given the degree to which the Florida election was tainted. Thousands of felons voted, those not registered were allowed to vote, some voted twice, and even the dead voted in small numbers. Other voters were erroneously turned away from the polls.”
Interesting from a liberal MSM newspaper!
The New York Times wrote,”Mr. Gore might have eked out a victory if he had pursued in court a course like the one he publicly advocated when he called on the state to ‘count all the votes.'”
Interesting from a most liberal MSM newspaper!
You all are arguing Gore would have won. He may have won if he filed his lawsuit to recount the whole state back in early November instead of four counties only. HE blew it. All this speculation in late 2001 which you all use as your argumentum ad nauseum is just too bad.
Nixon in hindsight had a similar argument in Chicago and Texas on the fix in certain counties. But he couldn’t get it done in time and is viewed better in history today over his choice not to recount in 1960.