The Dow plummeted 450 points this morning in early trading, as traders responded to a worldwide plunge in share prices over the MLK holiday, and a second straight day of near-record losses in the Asian markets. How concerned are the experts? The Federal Reserve attempted to fend off a US crash by slashing interest rates three quarters of a point just before the opening bell, prompting respected financial blogger Bonddad to describe the Fed as “Wall Street’s bitch.”
The problem is liquidity isn’t the issue — it’s counter-party risk. So long as lenders are
1.) Concerned about getting repaid on existing loans and
2.) Concerned that a party might now repay even a short-term loan
3.) In the middle of writedown hell.
Then loans aren’t going to get made. It’s that simple.
Also note the the effective Fed Funds rate is now negative. The yearly increase in inflation is 4.1% and the Fed Funds rate is now 3%, meaning the effective Federal Funds rate is in fact -1.1%. This is the situation that got us into this mess.
Of course, even an impending worldwide recession has its bright spot, with crude oil prices dropping below $88 a barrel in anticipation of reduced demand.
And by the way, in case anybody is keeping score, the Dow Industrial Index closed at 10,678 on January 18, 2001, the day President Bush was sworn into office. Last time I checked it was still below 12,000 points, even after recovering about half the early morning losses. A 12% return over seven years… below the rate of inflation. Wow. Those Republicans sure do know how to run the economy. (By comparison, the Dow closed at 3,242 on January 20, 1993, the day President Bill Clinton was inaugurated, more than tripling in value over Clinton’s two terms.)
Go wingnuts. Your chimpanzee has really made this economy recession proof with his tax cuts for the rich, tax breaks for corporations, looking the other way when they pollute or wreck the environment and making lousy trade deals.
Way to go. I have a funny feeling folks aren’t going to buy your bullshit in Nov. All the vote fraud and vote suppression in the world isn’t going to help you if hardly anyone votes for you.
Besides the worst the crime in the world to a Republican is getting caught. That’s the unforgivable sin.
Just ask Allen Raymond
http://preview.tinyurl.com/2cmwvg
Goldy – Remember September 11, 2001? Apparently not, because it had a slight negative effect on the financial markets. Had Bill Clinton been more interested in dealing with Islamic radicalism than staining Monica’s dress, we might have avoided the situation.
Ditto the dotcom boom and bust. Bill Clinton got lucky in his timing, he got the benefit of the boom without the blame of the the bust.
Goldy: Hope to see you sometime at DL (if I can actually show up). Nice analysis here on the economy.
Republicans are poison to the economy. They create budget deficits and “free” trade that causes us to lose jobs and create a trade deficit.
Even when a republican (bush) recognizes the problem (our “addiction” to foreign oil causing the trade deficit)his backwards policies prevent any governmnet solution.
See this link for the amazing story of government by republicans: http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/005105.php
this is the story of the federal government (the EPA, under bush) preventing the states (California) from enacting their own CAFE standards.
Let’s see:
bush is against States rights:
California has a huge air polution problem that exacerbates asthma and other health problems of people in the cities. But they can’t control the mileage of the cars that produce that pollution – according to bush.
Bush is against his own EPA recommendation (nothing new here – politics trumps science)
Bush meets with auto execs (same old republican mode of operation – what is good for GM is good for the country).
bush doesn’t care about the trade deficit, the dependence on foreign oil, the environment or the health of the american people.
Now bush is covering up the decision to take this to court (useless lawsuit) and claiming executive priviledge.
This is a microcosm of republicans catering to big business over all of the “other” values they supposedly have (including states rights). It shows the lack of accountability, tranparency and logic in their positions.
bottom line: republicans care ONLY about catering to their big business buddies – all other values are out the window. Abramoff, Enron, GM all fit the republican patern of corruption and special priviledges for the coporate elite.
The real reason global markets are down is the real possibility that we’ll elect a marxist preznit who has already declared war on wealth generation. Whether it’s health care, pharm, oil, or anything else they set their sights on, marxists are bad for the economy. If we go down, so does the world.
Whether the name is “Clinton”, “Obama”, or “McCain”, they all pose a serious threat and must be defeated at any cost.
Delbert: Republican excuses – bush has had 7 years and the economy has tanked. Republicans produce deficits and kill the economy. Republicans destroy the controls on corporations and they run wild (enron, banks and loans) and mess up the economy.
9/11 was on Bush’s watch – his adminsitration was the one to ignore the warning s from clinton on bin Laden.
Reagan/bush also screwed the economy – unemployment at the end of Bush was at 7.5% – under 3% at the end of clinton.
Lucky? every time we have had republicnas in the last 20 years we have been worse off. Gee- the republicans just have bad luck….or they are incompetent and spend us into recession?
Poor Mark: The economy is going to seal this for the democrats – republicans screw it up.
Mark is still stuck in the the 80s – the Soviet Union is gone – saying McCain or the democrats are Marxist just shows how ignorant and pathetically out of date you are.
Keep up the good work – your types will drive more people to the democrats. thanks.
@4
A quick look at say…Sweden shows that they are not doing badly
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Sweden
http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/world/A0861384.html
And they are much more socialist then the US. I’m all for reining in the robber barons.
Obama and Edwards in 08!
Okay, I’ve been waiting for some post about finances to repeat my Mia Culpa, which I posted too late on one of the lower threads for anybody but Puddy to notice. But Goldy pretty much provided an update for my correction, so there’s not much need for me to repeat it, but I promised, so here it goes:
Puddy asked me for a link to back up my claims that under the seven years of the current Bush administration, the DJIA had lost over 7%, a substantially worse performance than during any previous president in the past quarter century, even worse than during Carter’s four years in office.
Well, I wasn’t using a website per se for the numbers. I was simply looking up the closing DJIA for the day before inauguration for each president, beginning with Carter, and putting them in a spreadsheet to calculate the differences and percentage changes. By using percentages as a basis for comparison, instead of just points, it helped to offset the differences in value caused merely by inflation. I didn’t go back further than Carter because those numbers weren’t available on the website I was using to look up the historical DJIA data:
http://bigcharts.marketwatch.c.....&y=24.
So my first inclination was simply to post the link to the historical numbers, and let Puddy figure it out for himself, like I did. But before I did that, I thought perhaps I had better check the numbers, one more time. It would be real embarrassing to have Puddy point out a minor mistake, and then use it as an excuse to argue that it’s all a liberal plot to discredit Bush and the “great job the Republicans are doing with the economy”. So I pulled out the figures, and checked the numbers again.
“Dang. That can’t be right.” I look up the numbers again.
“Dang. It’s still wrong.” Maybe the formulas in the spreadsheet got corrupted. Check everything again.
Then the sinking realization hits. I made a data entry error in the spreadsheets. I’m not sure where it came from, but the wrong number was put into the column for the ending DJIA of the Clinton administration, which also constituted the starting number for the Bush administration. After correcting this number, it appears that Instead of losing 7% in value, the DJIA actually gained 14.84% during the seven years of his administration, all but the last of which was while the Congress was also under Republican control.
Now, that doesn’t mean that a 14.84% gain over seven years is any great feat. It would, in fact, get most CEO’s fired, since it would be an annual average gain of little more than the rate of inflation (reported yesterday at more than 4% last year). This is especially true if the figure seems to be getting quite a bit worse of late. Seven years is more than long enough to overcome any problems left behind by the previous administration, to allow your policies to have an effect and to see the results, and to overcome any temporary one-time problems beyond your control. In fact, if we have another five days of losses like yesterday (Wednesday Jan. 17th) which aren’t recovered in a subsequent rally, Bush’s DJIA numbers will indeed be lower than Carter’s.
But I have to admit that I made a mistake, as much as it galls me to admit it, and in fairness I am reporting that mistake here, in the same forum where I originally published my erroneous figures. I will also post this to a more current thread, since quite a few people never bother to go back to the old threads. (Note to myself for future use: get all calculations vetted before posting).
The corrected rankings (in order of performance) are as follows:
Clinton (8 years) + 225.37% (avg. + 56.34% p/y)
Reagan (8 years) +135.13% (avg. + 33.78% p/y)
Bush I (4 years) + 45.57% (avg. + 11.39% p/y)
Bush II (7 years) + 14.84% (avg. + 3.71% p/y)
Carter (4 years) – 0.87% (avg. – 0.22% p/y)
In conclusion: mia culpa.
Of course, if today’s market doesn’t rally, and the slides continue this week, my original numbers might not have been wrong, just a little ahead of the game.
Those Republicans sure do know how to run the economy. (By comparison, the Dow closed at 3,242 on January 20, 1993, the day President Bill Clinton was inaugurated, more than tripling in value over Clinton’s two terms.)
Uhmmm, the economy under Bill Clinton didn’t really take off until AFTER Republicans took control of congress.
I do agree that the Republican congress and President Bush lost touch with their constituency, and got “drunk on power”, thus the current house cleaning within the Republican party. I don’t see anything from Democrats that points to a change in what was happening pre-2006. If anything, what Democrats are proposing is MORE spending..
Delbert at # 2. I win. Yesterday I made a bet with a friend that the day wouldn’t go by without some Republican claiming that today’s financial problems were caused by an event which occurred on one day, six and a half years ago.
Nice try. Now go back to economics class. A terrorist attack six and a half years ago isn’t responsible for today’s economic situation, unless the administration in charge allows it to be. It’s called good government and fiscal management.
Oh, and blaming the economic crises on “fears of a Democratic victory in the 2008 elections”? Which Republican spin factory did that come from????
Hey, let’s try this. I’ll work on a job for seven years. In the first six months there will be a catastrophie, but I’ll blame it on my predecessor, and I’ll manage to squeek by. Then over the next six years I will go way over budget (by several orders of magnitude), ignore company rules, back-stab my co-workers, and bungle just about every major responsibility. Then when my boss starts to fire me, I’ll say “lets look forward, not backwards”, and “the customers all cancelled their contracts due to fear I would be replaced – you have to keep me, then the customers will return”.
Think that would work?
. If anything, what Democrats are proposing is MORE spending..
Yeah. More spending means taking care of business. Two billion is what it’s going to cost to repair the I-5 road bed. Lots more to swap out aging sewer and water systems unless you want people to fall into sink holes. Anyone care to drive off any more collapsed bridges?
But no, Republicans say no to meaningful tax reform.
Republicans say yes to endless wars that drain the treasury while the country’s economy falls apart.
@2 “Had Bill Clinton been more interested in dealing with Islamic radicalism than staining Monica’s dress, we might have avoided the situation.”
The truth of the matter is Clinton was a lot more interested in “dealing with Islamic radicalism” than your trained monkey, which is precisely why thousands of Americans are dead and American taxpayers are out two trillion dollars:
“Bush’s approach in most situations seemed a reactive combination of calculations … to reject Clinton’s policies. This was especially clear in international affairs: in his first nine months he reversed Clinton’s policy toward China …; in the Middle East, by withdrawing … [from] negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians; toward Korea, by abandoning the negotiated accord that had frozen the North’s nuclear program …; by withdrawing U.S. support from the Kyoto treaty …; and by forsaking Clinton’s efforts to address the dangers of international terrorism.
“During the transition between administrations, National Security Adviser Sandy Berger arranged several extensive briefings on this last subject for Bush’s incoming national security adviser, Condoleeza Rice, and others on the Bush team, including Vice President Cheney. One briefing lasted half a day. Berger told them that Osama bin Laden was an ‘existential threat’ and told them that he wanted ‘to underscore how important this issue is.’ In another briefing, Richard Clarke, head of counterrorism in the NSC, the single most knowledgeable expert in the government, gave them a complete tutorial on the subject. In yet another briefing, CIA officials were brought in to go over all the intelligence available on terrorism.
“Don Kerrick, a three-star general and outgoing deputy national security adviser, overlapped for four months with the new Bush people. He submitted a memo for the new National Security Council warning of the danger of terrorism. ‘We are going to be struck again,’ he wrote. But as Kerrick explained to me, he received no answer to his memo. ‘They didn’t respond,’ he said. ‘They never responded. It was not high on their priority list. I was never invited to one meeting. They never asked me to do anything. They were not focusing. They didn’t see terrorism as the big megaissue that the Clinton administration saw it as. They were concentrated on what they thought were higher priorities than terrorism.’ The Principals meeting of national security officials took up terrorism only once, after constant pressure from Clarke, on September 4, 2001, and at that meeting they discussed using unmanned Predator drone spy aircraft, but no decision was made. ‘Unfortunately,’ said Kerrick, ‘September 11 gave them something to focus on.’”
— Sidney Blumenthal, The Clinton Wars (New York: Farrar, Strauss, and Giroux, 2003), pp. 797-798.
How’s chimp’s foreign “policy” working out for you idiots? Waytago wingnut fools.
The one silver lining in all this is American voters have finally figured out that Republicans are, in fact, as stupid as they look — and are poised to do something about it. Namely, the GOP will be ejected from participation in governing this country for a generation.
@4 Global markets are down because of too much Marxism for the rich. Pay your fucking gambling debt, freeloader.
Let’s see. Since 2001, workers’ share of GDP has dropped from 60% to 50%, and real earnings of the middle class have declined 8%. Then, all of a sudden, consumers (who account for 70% of the economy) have to quit spending because their credit cards are maxed out and their collateral is dropping in value. Crunch. Crush. Biff. Bang.
As I’ve been saying for years, when Republican business owners ship jobs overseas, slash wages, and transfer health care and retirement costs to workers by eliminating benefits — who the fuck do they think is going to have any money to buy their goods and services?
Not hard to figure out where this recession came from.
“The Dow plummeted 450 points this morning”
O’ no Rogers going to have to go out and get a job!
Sorry, couldn’t help my self
I have to say I’m getting seriously bummed about the economy tanking. It’s getting to the point that even the Democrats will have a hard time pulling it out of the dumps.
The problem is that past fiscal mismanagement has made the traditional tools ineffective. We are facing an economy which is both inflationary and heading for a full recession at the same time. As Goldy noted, lowering the interest rates below the inflation rate might help avoid a rescession a bit (perhaps), but it is bound to compound the inflation problem even more.
The problem is that with the Bush tax cuts, record budget deficits, high national debt, and inflationary economy, there simply isn’t much room left for the traditional tools (drops in interest rates, further tax cuts, etc.). He has squeezed the tube empty, and there’s not much left.
As for the “tax rebates”, I don’t think they are going to do much good, either. Most of us learned the last time that it wasn’t anything more than a loan against next year’s refund, and those that found they owed money the next year weren’t too happy about it. Besides, putting one-time cash into the hands of consumers is not the remedy it used to be.
First of all, they are talking about doing this January, when most consumers are more inclined to use it to pay off their Christmas credit card bills, rather than on new spending.
Second, the old saw was that even the promise of new money in consumer hands led to retailers stocking up, which then created immidiate orders to manufacturers, which then created new jobs as the manufacturers hired new workers, which put more money into consumer’s hands, etc. But now there is a disconnect – most of the manufacturers are now overseas. Sure, WalMart will make some money off a one-time tax rebate, but I don’t see it creating any new jobs.
What might work is a substantial long-term investment in the U.S. infrastructure (highways, bridges, railbeds, port facilities, research facilities, etc.). But Bush won’t be signing any such legislation.
Think that would work?
RHP if it didn’t work, then these ghouls would have been canned at the 4 year mark. IMHO the eight year mark is still up in the air somewhat. I can’t believe what a bulwark against change the ghouls in the Senate have been. Even if we get 60 seats in Nov, there’s still going to be a few “Bush Dog” Dems to obstruct meaningful change.
These Republicans are all about the big lie. If they can construct a big enough fantasy world through the media, they believe people will buy it and too many people have bought it. I know that is changing but I don’t know if it has changed enough.
But not to worry! This is merely a much-needed pullback in labor and productivity. After all, under a system that taxes wages 3 times as much as capital gains and investment income, there’s no incentive for anyone to work, so we don’t need labor and production anyway! All we need is more investment. That’s what I do — I don’t consume anything, and I don’t do any work. Why should I, when all the after-tax money comes from inheriting money and owning stuff? So, I’ve learned to limit my activities to receiving inheritances and owning stocks. Sure, I’m taking it on the chin in the stock market right now, but these things are always temporary, and the absence of capital gains means an absence of taxes! Now, I not only don’t work or produce anything, I won’t pay taxes either! Suck on it, Republicans! I live like you now.
@16
Yeah, that sounds about right.
Oh — and don’t ask for me a loan, rightys. You guys aren’t reliable, so I can’t lend money to your enterprises anymore. I need an equity stake now. Say, a controlling interest (51%) in return for picking up 5% of your debt … that seems like a fair deal, in light of how you’ve been screwing the worker segment of the economy for the last 25 years. Now it’s our turn to suck on your tit for a change.
@17 Not to worry, my pension doesn’t go down with the stock market, only the currency does. This 3/4% rate cut will bring us plenty of inflation. Bush has single-handedly managed to remanufacture the Nixon-Ford stagflation. Strap yourselves in and hang on, kiddies, because all of you who are in debt to your ears are about to witness a massive devaluation of the currency — you now get to repay all those debts with CHEAP dollars, and I do mean CHEAP! The dollar has already lost 40% since the GOP installed their trained monkey in the White House, and they may yet succeed in getting its value down to a dime by the time the Cowboy Chimp rides off into the sunset — which, by the way, is setting on the era of American prosperity. We’re a Third World country now, having fallen from the world’s most prosperous nation to the status of an Argentina in just 7 short years. Amazing.
Off topic, but look at those fancy new hybrid buses they’ve got over in Spokane. And they paid for them the old fashioned way; they had the federal government pick up 80% of the tab.
http://metrospokane.typepad.co.....ybrid.html
To show you how badly the GOPers have mismanaged the economy, even rightwing Wall Street billionaires are backing the Democrats in this election. They know a cancer when they see one.
GOP = cancer on the economy
After today, they’ll all be ex-billionaires.
Asset values are dropping like rocks as the Bush Economic House of Cards crumbles.
Nearly all of the jobs “created” since 2001 were either in housing construction or statistical adjustments. Two weeks ago Barron’s, a conservative investor magazine, reported that 89% of the “new jobs” in 2007 were a statistical adjustment, not real people working in actual jobs, which means the economy lost real jobs last year.
Not hard to figure out that, yes Virginia, we are in fact in a recession.
And think about this: Most of those construction jobs paid about $10 an hour and went to immigrants who formerly made $3 – $4 an hour in the fields, and virtually all of the remaining jobs “created” on Bush’s watch were low-paying retail jobs, while the economy sent shiploads of high-paying manufacturing jobs overseas. Guys who used to make $50 – $60,000 a year are now on unemployment benfits or flipping burgers — not hard to figure out where this recession came from.
2, 4 – Hey dumbshits, let’s look at some economic statistics (you guys claim to be good at that):
From Harding In 1921 to Bush in 2003:
–Democrats held White House for 40 years and Republicans for 42.5 years.
–Democrats created 75,820,000 net jobs — Republicans 36,440,000. Per Year Average: Democrats 1,825,200, Republicans 856,400.
–Republicans had 9 presidents, 6 of whom presided over depressions or recession.
— The Dow Average grew 52% more under Democrats.
— GDP grew 43% more under Democrats.
Comparing Clinton to Reagan:
–Jobs grew 43% more under Clinton.
–GDP grew 57% more under Clinton.
–The Dow advanced 700% more under Clinton..
–The NASDAQ grew 18 times as much under Clinton.
–Federal spending grew 28% under Clinton and 80% under Reagan.
–Federal debt grew 43% under Clinton and 187% under Reagan.
–Deficits grew 112% under Reagan; Clinton bequeathed large surpluses to his successor, who promptly squandered them.
–National income grew 100% more under Clinton; personal income grew 110% more under Clinton.
Sources: Bureau of Labor Statistics (www.BLS.gov); Economic Policy Institute (EPI.org), Global & World Almanacs from 1980 to 2003 (annual issues)
By the way, did anybody wonder why the overseas markets tanked on Monday? India’s market closed early, just short of a 10% market decline.
Answer: We are their customers. The provide most of the manufactured goods, and increasingly, more of the services also. They see their customer is bankrupt, and that isn’t good for them.
We began to lose our manufacturing base during the Reagan years, when we surrendered most of our market share in steel, heavy equipment, and electronics to the Japanese. Clinton pushed NAFTA in the belief that an economically stronger Mexico and Central America was in our best interests. But during the Bush years, China has caused just about all of those factories in Mexico and the U.S. closed their doors, primarily because they are not playing on a level field (ignoring environmental protections, artifically-fixed favorable exchange rate, etc.).
In the meantime the Chinese are buying scrap metals from us, and storing them by the mega-ton in artificall reefs extending into the ocean. Anybody wonder why they feel they need to spend so much money stockpiling scrap metal?
But I guess the U.S. manufacturing base is not a security concern for Bush, nor is China. He’s concerned about IRAN?????
Any dope looking at those numbers can figure out they’re better off with Democrats running the guvmint and the economy.
Are YOU better off than you were 7 years ago?!!
HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR
Vote Republican if you enjoy living on a park bench.
Workers/consumers have gone on strike because they’re tired of being abused.
Kiss goodbye to the corporate profits that feed the idle rich.
The downside is that impoverished workers now have to compete with dispossessed Republicans for those burger flipping jobs.
the Democrats will have a hard time pulling it out of the dumps.
The war has to wind down. We can’t afford it. Modest residual force in Iraq coupled with a modest redeployment to Afghanistan to fight off the Taliban. Huge diplomatic offensive.
Time for a old-fashioned soaking of the rich to finance an upgrade of crumbling American infrastructure to make our economy competitive. Jobs for those laid off from the housing meltdown. The rich shouldn’t mind – they’ll benefit from a growing economy like everyone else, but this time EVERYONE is going to benefit – not just them.
A carbon tax balanced with payroll tax cuts will finance medicare for all, subsidize energy assistance for the poor and R&D for the needed energy transition. Easiest tax in the world to avoid – just use renewable energy and efficiency instead of burning carbon.
The new taxes should also be put to work on the education front to upgrade the skills of our workforce.
Taxes should not be raised on the middle class who have been strapped since 1980.
Future trade deals must be contingent on cooperation on both environmental and labor standards. You want access to our markets – play fair.
There it is – foreign policy, trade and tax reform coupled with skills and infrastructure upgrade. A way out of the darkness of right wing failure.
Monthly unemployment rate from Reagan to present
(I don’t have to say anything; look for yourself)
Reagan takes office
1981-01-01 7.5
1981-02-01 7.4
1981-03-01 7.4
1981-04-01 7.2
1981-05-01 7.5
1981-06-01 7.5
1981-07-01 7.2
1981-08-01 7.4
1981-09-01 7.6
1981-10-01 7.9
1981-11-01 8.3
1981-12-01 8.5
1982-01-01 8.6
1982-02-01 8.9
1982-03-01 9.0
1982-04-01 9.3
1982-05-01 9.4
1982-06-01 9.6
1982-07-01 9.8
1982-08-01 9.8
1982-09-01 10.1
1982-10-01 10.4
1982-11-01 10.8
1982-12-01 10.8
1983-01-01 10.4
1983-02-01 10.4
1983-03-01 10.3
1983-04-01 10.2
1983-05-01 10.1
1983-06-01 10.1
1983-07-01 9.4
1983-08-01 9.5
1983-09-01 9.2
1983-10-01 8.8
1983-11-01 8.5
1983-12-01 8.3
1984-01-01 8.0
1984-02-01 7.8
1984-03-01 7.8
1984-04-01 7.7
1984-05-01 7.4
1984-06-01 7.2
1984-07-01 7.5
1984-08-01 7.5
1984-09-01 7.3
1984-10-01 7.4
1984-11-01 7.2
1984-12-01 7.3
1985-01-01 7.3
1985-02-01 7.2
1985-03-01 7.2
1985-04-01 7.3
1985-05-01 7.2
1985-06-01 7.4
1985-07-01 7.4
1985-08-01 7.1
1985-09-01 7.1
1985-10-01 7.1
1985-11-01 7.0
1985-12-01 7.0
1986-01-01 6.7
1986-02-01 7.2
1986-03-01 7.2
1986-04-01 7.1
1986-05-01 7.2
1986-06-01 7.2
1986-07-01 7.0
1986-08-01 6.9
1986-09-01 7.0
1986-10-01 7.0
1986-11-01 6.9
1986-12-01 6.6
1987-01-01 6.6
1987-02-01 6.6
1987-03-01 6.6
1987-04-01 6.3
1987-05-01 6.3
1987-06-01 6.2
1987-07-01 6.1
1987-08-01 6.0
1987-09-01 5.9
1987-10-01 6.0
1987-11-01 5.8
1987-12-01 5.7
1988-01-01 5.7
1988-02-01 5.7
1988-03-01 5.7
1988-04-01 5.4
1988-05-01 5.6
1988-06-01 5.4
1988-07-01 5.4
1988-08-01 5.6
1988-09-01 5.4
1988-10-01 5.4
1988-11-01 5.3
1988-12-01 5.3
Bush41 takes office
1989-01-01 5.4
1989-02-01 5.2
1989-03-01 5.0
1989-04-01 5.2
1989-05-01 5.2
1989-06-01 5.3
1989-07-01 5.2
1989-08-01 5.2
1989-09-01 5.3
1989-10-01 5.3
1989-11-01 5.4
1989-12-01 5.4
1990-01-01 5.4
1990-02-01 5.3
1990-03-01 5.2
1990-04-01 5.4
1990-05-01 5.4
1990-06-01 5.2
1990-07-01 5.5
1990-08-01 5.7
1990-09-01 5.9
1990-10-01 5.9
1990-11-01 6.2
1990-12-01 6.3
Clinton takes office
1991-01-01 6.4
1991-02-01 6.6
1991-03-01 6.8
1991-04-01 6.7
1991-05-01 6.9
1991-06-01 6.9
1991-07-01 6.8
1991-08-01 6.9
1991-09-01 6.9
1991-10-01 7.0
1991-11-01 7.0
1991-12-01 7.3
1992-01-01 7.3
1992-02-01 7.4
1992-03-01 7.4
1992-04-01 7.4
1992-05-01 7.6
1992-06-01 7.8
1992-07-01 7.7
1992-08-01 7.6
1992-09-01 7.6
1992-10-01 7.3
1992-11-01 7.4
1992-12-01 7.4
1993-01-01 7.3
1993-02-01 7.1
1993-03-01 7.0
1993-04-01 7.1
1993-05-01 7.1
1993-06-01 7.0
1993-07-01 6.9
1993-08-01 6.8
1993-09-01 6.7
1993-10-01 6.8
1993-11-01 6.6
1993-12-01 6.5
1994-01-01 6.6
1994-02-01 6.6
1994-03-01 6.5
1994-04-01 6.4
1994-05-01 6.1
1994-06-01 6.1
1994-07-01 6.1
1994-08-01 6.0
1994-09-01 5.9
1994-10-01 5.8
1994-11-01 5.6
1994-12-01 5.5
1995-01-01 5.6
1995-02-01 5.4
1995-03-01 5.4
1995-04-01 5.8
1995-05-01 5.6
1995-06-01 5.6
1995-07-01 5.7
1995-08-01 5.7
1995-09-01 5.6
1995-10-01 5.5
1995-11-01 5.6
1995-12-01 5.6
1996-01-01 5.6
1996-02-01 5.5
1996-03-01 5.5
1996-04-01 5.6
1996-05-01 5.6
1996-06-01 5.3
1996-07-01 5.5
1996-08-01 5.1
1996-09-01 5.2
1996-10-01 5.2
1996-11-01 5.4
1996-12-01 5.4
1997-01-01 5.3
1997-02-01 5.2
1997-03-01 5.2
1997-04-01 5.1
1997-05-01 4.9
1997-06-01 5.0
1997-07-01 4.9
1997-08-01 4.8
1997-09-01 4.9
1997-10-01 4.7
1997-11-01 4.6
1997-12-01 4.7
1998-01-01 4.6
1998-02-01 4.6
1998-03-01 4.7
1998-04-01 4.3
1998-05-01 4.4
1998-06-01 4.5
1998-07-01 4.5
1998-08-01 4.5
1998-09-01 4.6
1998-10-01 4.5
1998-11-01 4.4
1998-12-01 4.4
1999-01-01 4.3
1999-02-01 4.4
1999-03-01 4.2
1999-04-01 4.3
1999-05-01 4.2
1999-06-01 4.3
1999-07-01 4.3
1999-08-01 4.2
1999-09-01 4.2
1999-10-01 4.1
1999-11-01 4.1
1999-12-01 4.0
2000-01-01 4.0
2000-02-01 4.1
2000-03-01 4.0
2000-04-01 3.8
2000-05-01 4.0
2000-06-01 4.0
2000-07-01 4.0
2000-08-01 4.1
2000-09-01 3.9
2000-10-01 3.9
2000-11-01 3.9
2000-12-01 3.9
Bush43 takes office
2001-01-01 4.2
2001-02-01 4.2
2001-03-01 4.3
2001-04-01 4.4
2001-05-01 4.3
2001-06-01 4.5
2001-07-01 4.6
2001-08-01 4.9
2001-09-01 5.0
2001-10-01 5.3
2001-11-01 5.5
2001-12-01 5.7
2002-01-01 5.7
2002-02-01 5.7
2002-03-01 5.7
2002-04-01 5.9
2002-05-01 5.8
2002-06-01 5.8
2002-07-01 5.8
2002-08-01 5.7
2002-09-01 5.7
2002-10-01 5.7
2002-11-01 5.9
2002-12-01 6.0
2003-01-01 5.8
2003-02-01 5.9
2003-03-01 5.9
2003-04-01 6.0
2003-05-01 6.1
2003-06-01 6.3
2003-07-01 6.2
2003-08-01 6.1
2003-09-01 6.1
2003-10-01 6.0
2003-11-01 5.8
2003-12-01 5.7
2004-01-01 5.7
2004-02-01 5.6
2004-03-01 5.8
2004-04-01 5.6
2004-05-01 5.6
2004-06-01 5.6
2004-07-01 5.5
2004-08-01 5.4
2004-09-01 5.4
2004-10-01 5.5
2004-11-01 5.4
2004-12-01 5.4
2005-01-01 5.2
2005-02-01 5.4
2005-03-01 5.2
2005-04-01 5.1
2005-05-01 5.1
2005-06-01 5.0
2005-07-01 5.0
2005-08-01 4.9
2005-09-01 5.1
2005-10-01 5.0
2005-11-01 5.0
2005-12-01 4.8
2006-01-01 4.7
2006-02-01 4.7
2006-03-01 4.7
2006-04-01 4.7
2006-05-01 4.7
2006-06-01 4.6
2006-07-01 4.7
2006-08-01 4.7
2006-09-01 4.5
2006-10-01 4.4
2006-11-01 4.5
2006-12-01 4.4
2007-01-01 4.6
2007-02-01 4.5
2007-03-01 4.4
2007-04-01 4.5
2007-05-01 4.5
2007-06-01 4.6
2007-07-01 4.7
2007-08-01 4.7
2007-09-01 4.7
2007-10-01 4.8
2007-11-01 4.7
2007-12-01 5.0
Source: http://research.stlouisfed.org.....UNRATE.txt
I am making more $$ today than I was 10 years ago under clinton.
For those still working, who can’t say the same thing?
Republicans are bad for capitalism.
It’s going to get worse before it gets better.
Lots of airplane orders to Boeing are for Chinese airlines. In their rush to modernize, they have used aircraft instead of further substantial investment in roads and rail. But they just rolled out their first all-Chinese made regional jetliner, which competes at the low-passenger-count end with the Boeing 737. They are in works now to build a mid-size wide-body (which will compete with the upper-end of the 737 passenger count, and the lower end of the 787 passenger count. Obviously, their goal is to not continue spending money on American or European jetliners, and to build it themselves, and to market the planes to others as a low-cost alternative.
Japanese manufacturers are building Boeing wings for the first time. Since Boeing has out-sourced most of its carbon-fiber airframe production, manufacturers in other countries are building the infrastructure and gaining the skills and experience working with this technology. We might expect Japan and even Italy to begin competing soon.
China even has a space program with a goal, which is more than we can say now.
Unless things get turned around real fast, the days of American economic dominance are over. The autopsy report will read: Died of neglect and investment in infrastructure and education.
@9 “Uhmmm, the economy under Bill Clinton didn’t really take off until AFTER Republicans took control of congress.”
Congress doesn’t make economic policy, so that’s irrelevant. Who’s in the White House matters most, followed by who’s running the Federal Reserve.
@10 Let them run against (Bill) Clinton in ’08. In fact, I dare them to. In fact, I dare them to run against any Clinton in ’08.
@18 Don’t worry, FDR pulled us out of 25% unemployment with public works projects, and Republicans have left us with a 25-year backlog of infrastructure repair work.
News reports as of 10:30 a.m., Pacific Time. The fed rate cut has stopped the bleading, with the market “recovering” to a negative (-40) point loss, so far. I’m not so much interested in where it sits at the end of the day, as I am in where it sits at the end of the week.
If the market is down 40 points AFTER the Fed cuts interest rates a full 3/4 points, then what in the heck is the Fed going to do the next time it drops?
“The rate cut helped stanch the stock drop because “the equity markets are so used to the kneejerk reaction that if it’s cheaper for companies to borrow, earnings will go up,” said Daniel Alpert, managing director of Westwood Capital LLC. “But throwing more cheap money into the equation doesn’t help the fact that we have a credit crisis on our hands.”
For the market to truly gain a foothold, investors need to see strong economic data in the coming weeks and solid earnings reports and forecasts this week from big multinational companies like Microsoft Corp., AT&T Inc., Caterpillar Inc. and Honeywell International Inc. The market also needs to hear that financial institutions like Citigroup Inc. and Merrill Lynch & Co., which have lost billions due to investments in failed mortgages, are on their way to solid earnings as well.
“If that doesn’t happen, then all this is a short-term bottom before a resumption of selling,” said Peter Boockvar, equity strategist at Miller Tabak.
Source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3683270/
(quoted under Fair Use Doctrine).
@40 And each of those dollars is worth about half as much.
@40 (continued) But only for so long as you still have a job.
#2 – These wingnuts can’t help themselves. Everything’s Bill Clinton’s fault.
@46 “If the market is down 40 points AFTER the Fed cuts interest rates a full 3/4 points, then what in the heck is the Fed going to do the next time it drops?”
They don’t have to stop at 0%. The government can pay you to borrow money from the mint if they want to.
@13…RR…
Sydney Blumenthal? You mean Sydney Bluemnthal the drunk driver? Or Sydney Blumenthal the shameless flack for the Clintons? Or Sydney Blumenthal one of Washington’s dirtiest political operatives?
To which Sydney Blumenthal do you attribute the quote?
http://nicedeb.wordpress.com/2.....ing-in-nh/
And Richard Clarke? You mean the guy who has multiple versions of every story tailored to fit his audience of the moment? Or simply Richard Clarke the liar? The guy whose allegations of prior knowledge and assertions of self-importance were debunked long ago?
http://www.time.com/time/natio.....98,00.html
How about Sandy Berger? The document thief? Whose nickname is now “Socks” Berger? Who was fined $50K and had his security clearance yanked for smuggling documents out of a secured area? On whose behalf was that again?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....01711.html
It’s never a good idea to use partisan hacks to support a position espoused by…the same partisan hacks. That’s like you contending that you have honest opinions on issues, citing as your primary source, your opinion that you have honest opinions on issues.
I hear Sydney needs a lawyer to handle his DUI. Doesn’t Washington have a reciprocity arrangement with NH? I’ll bet ol’ Syd will pay you top dollar wages…as opposed to what you’re worth!
What a rogues’ gallery of discredited political hucksters, which makes them right up your alley.
The Piper
re 2: Now I understand how you find it so easy to lie to others. You don’t even tell yourself the truth.
I’d love to hear you when you are trying to talk your way out of a speeding ticket.
re 52: No amount of cutesy rhetoric from you is going to lessen the thorough drubbing and ultimate demise of the Republican Party.
Now’s a good time to make your IRA contribution for the year, if you haven’t already done so. Many of us remember how the “world was coming to an end” back in October 1987, and the market rebounded just fine. Rmember, buy low is half of the equation to growing personal wealth!
What a rogues’ gallery of discredited political hucksters
i.e. the
AristocratsRepublicans!53 Likewise Piper’s delusional rant in #52.
These people are in such denial that they’ll continue to insist the Titanic is perfectly safe until their heads slip underwater for the third time.
Anyone for a rousing chorus of Near My God To Thee?
@57…AF…
It’s “Nearer My God to Thee…” Your missing syllable destroys the rhyme and meter schemes.
http://www.letgodbetrue.com/wo.....o-thee.htm
A free download of the hymn is available here: http://www.letgodbetrue.com/mp.....o-thee.mp3
It’s a choral arrangement that lacks in subtlety and emotional nuance, but you’ll get the gist of the thing.
Whatever denial there is on the particular question of Syd the Sot’s credibility and those he mentions in his “book” is on your side. I didn’t insist anything; my point is don’t try to prove one by the testimony of drunken hacks, self-serving liars, and thieves who threaten national security.
That’s all…
The Piper
@54…Pre-Windshield Slime…
Predictions of our demise have been around since 1856.
Before you go getting all ahead of yourself ponder this:
“Stopping By Woods On A Snowy Evening
Whose woods these are I think I know.
His house is in the village though;
He will not see me stopping here
To watch his woods fill up with snow.
My little horse must think it queer
To stop without a farmhouse near
Between the woods and frozen lake
The darkest evening of the year.
He gives his harness bells a shake
To ask if there is some mistake.
The only other sound’s the sweep
Of easy wind and downy flake.
The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.”
I’m feeling esthetic and sensitive today; it’s the artist within, I suppose.
The point? November is a long way off, and anything can happen. Here’s a thought, too: no matter who wins in November, D or R, that person’s position will be way closer to me than you since by your own mouth, and those of your several multiple blogging personalities, you’ve clearly fallen so far off the deep end that you’re irrevocably, irretrievably, and inconsolably lost…cast into the pit where there is weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Doomed to perpetual disappointment and political betrayal, you will forever be bitter and disconsolate with no amount of choruses of “Nearer My God to Thee” sufficient to assuage the pain you will experience in the next Presidential administration.
Woe is you, bug.
The Piper
Piper please shut the fuck up. As a supporter of George W. Bush’s use of torture and his killing of civilians including children you should be hiding somewhere in shame. One thing about liberals is they are too fucking tolerant of the views of right-wing amoral individuals like yourself.
You hate America Piper. You hate this country because of it’s democracy and constitutional liberties. You are an authoritarian neo-fascist Piper who worships the power of the state. Piper shut the fuck up please. Just shut the fuck up!
This is for you Piper Scott:
Torture
November 5, 2007, 5:48 pm
Generals Agree: Waterboarding Is Torture
By The NY Times Editorial Board
President Bush’s nominee for Attorney General, Michael Mukasey, has had trouble deciding that waterboarding — a method of interrogation that is designed to make a prisoner believe that he is drowning — is torture.
It isn’t a trick question.
Two retired generals and two retired admirals have written a letter (pdf) to Patrick Leahy, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, stating that “waterboarding detainees amounts to illegal torture in all circumstances. To suggest otherwise — or even to give credence to such a suggestion — represents both an affront to the law and to the core values of our nation.”
Piper, you say you have a son in the military. If he was capyured by the bad guys and subjected to waterboarding, would you then, finally, call it torture? Would you Piper, as a supporter of waterboarding by Bush, feel any personal responsibility for it being used on your son?
Self-awareness and empathy are traits not found among many Republicans are they Piper? Puddy?
Today’s Headless Lucy name – Piper please!!
How do you find time to rant on the Seattle School District’s dime?
@52 How does any of that change the facts? If you think Blumenthal’s recounting of history is inaccurate or false, then provide some evidence to back up your assertions. Be careful, though, because Time Magazine and other sources have also documented the fact that outgoing Clinton officials briefed the incoming Bush administration about Osama and Al Qaeda, and the fact those warnings were ignored.
That’s so typical of wingnuts — insteading of responding to the facts, they attack the messenger. That would get you an “F” in a college freshman composition class.
@55 I’m on top of it. I sent the checks in to my broker last week.
@57 What do you mean “until”? 95 years on, they’re still shouting “The Titanic isn’t sinking! The Titanic isn’t sinking!” while the hulk rusts to dust 12,000 below their dead floating bodies.
#60
Just think of bush as being pro-choice. Then all the deaths of children will put a smile on your face.
Will you denounce the killing of children using abortions?
#40 Marvin Stamn says:
Still waiting to hear from anyone that is still working and making less $ under bush. Even the retired rabbit has bragged about he’s making more $$ because of his brilliant stock choices and he’s not even working.
Piper, like so many winger True Believers, is really good at revising history inside his own head.
@63…Puddy…
You mean to tell me that “Piper Please” is none other than racist name calling “headless lucy?” The person who tosses racial epithets in amounts and like some toss confetti? And all done via a Seattle School District computer?
You mean to say that the Seattle School District is employing a hate-mongering racist? Whose language if used by a teacher in a classroom would result in the teacher being fired? Who’s been condemend by many of the HA Happy Hooligans through and including Rabbit (no slouch at pejorative name calling himself)?
Wow! Who knew???
Shouldn’t this be reported to someone? Like, say, the Seattle School District??? At a minimum, I’m not sure Seattle taxpayers will appreciate their tax and levy funds going toward self-indulgent racist rants that would please the likes of a Richard Butler being blog-ralphed on the Seattle School District’s dime.
For racist scum to try to grab a moral high ground in order to complain about anything is hypocritical beyond measure. The only thing you can do in a case like that is give that person the total silent treatment offering them nothing but a reminder of how low a life they are.
Keep at it, Puddy, you do God’s work!
The Piper
@68 “Will you denounce the killing of children using abortions?”
Yes, I personally oppose abortion on moral and religious grounds, but I also think that’s a decision everyone must make for himself/herself based on his/her moral/religious beliefs.
BTW, I and a couple other commenters here have noticed that abortions are declining dramatically. I have always felt that abortion was a generational phenomenom, and cultural change rather than legal fiat would eventually reduce the incidence of abortions. The solution is not passing laws against it, but persuading people that abortion is not the best way to go — one person at a time, through the influence of families and churches — and that offering practical alternatives to abortion is also an essential piece of the solution.
Standing on a soapbox and pontificating that people should have children they can’t afford to raise while providing no material support doesn’t persuade anyone. Neither do laws; we had abortions before they were legal, and we would continue to have them if they were outlawed again; desperate people with no other alternatives won’t be stopped by preaching or threat of prosecution.
Republicans have done a stinking job of making sure kids already in this world have food, shelter, clothing, and medical care.
They should get that part right before they dictate to other people they MUST bring additional children into the world.
@64…RR…
Well, you have to have facts on your side first. When you trot out someone as disreputable as Syd the Sot, it’s easy to impeach his credibility. That plus Richard Clarke and Sandy “Socks” Berger.
A drunk, a liar, and a national security endangering thief.
What’s not to disbelieve from a trio like that?
Hell, they’re so crooked, when the walk they screw themselves into the ground!
The Piper
A politician like Dino Rossi, whose only claim to fame is balancing one state budget by kicking 40,000 poor kids off health care, is not in a position to lecture desperate single moms about delivering unplanned children.
68 Marvin, will you denounce the needless slaughter of human beings AFTER they’ve left the womb?
ArtFart: Where are you trying to trap Marvin with that comment?
Genocide in Rwanda, Kosovo, LA Latino neighborhoods?
@64 “Well, you have to have facts on your side first.”
I met that burden by quoting from a book written by a former National Security Adviser and published by a major publishing house. As a lawyer, you know perfectly well that when a factual proposition has been supported by substantial evidence, the burden of proof shifts to him who would dispute or rebut the tendered facts.
It’s like this, crackpiper. Even making allowances for the tendency of politicians to write memoirs designed to make themselves look good, a big company like Farrar Straus Giroux does employ editors, fact checkers, and proofreaders to vet material before publishing it; and does have a self-interest in not publishing bullshit to protect their credibility as a publisher. In addition, there’s a whole industry of reporters, book reviewers, and editorial writers — not to mention partisan critics — who have had plenty of opportunity to question or debunk anything in this book that isn’t true.
Blumenthal’s book is heavily footnoted, so you can check sources yourself if you like. In addition, he was an eyewitness to many of the events described, and there is plenty of corroborating evidence from other witnesses. To disbelieve his statements, you have to believe that every single one of a number of reputable high-level government officials participated in a conspiracy to lie about what happened, to wit, that incoming Bush officials were briefed about the Al Qaeda threat. But if that’s not enough for you, then add the fact that Condi Rice and other Bush administration officials have publicly acknowledged they were.
You just don’t want to deal with the truth. Fuck you, ostrich.
Piper: Only 6 Happy Hooligans have denounced headless but not the Happy Hooligan leader. And the winner of my “I have a Scream” contest YLB – Truly Clueless, can’ seem to find the correct sentence structure, well, because he’s truly clueless.
I wonder if he’s recycled.
The ugly truth is that the Clinton administration developed a comprehensive plan to fight terrorism, gave that plan to top Bush officials, and Bush’s administration chose to ignore it and shelved it.
The ugly truth is that Bush came into office fixated on tax cuts and other elements of his agenda, and dealing with the Clinton administration’s warnings about terrorists wasn’t a priority for him.
The ugly truth is that Bush largely ignored the threat until terrorists killed 3,000 innocent people on American soil.
The ugly truth is that ever since 9/11 Republicans have tried to shift blame to others instead of acting like adults and accepting responsibility for their mistakes and blunders.
All of this is public record, and well-documented. So go ahead and keep telling your version to the sand fleas, ostrich. Everyone except you wingnut deniers knows better.
“Clinton is to blame! Clinton is to blame! Clinton is to blame!”
Jesus Christ, grow up.
@80…Puddy…
Given any thought as to whether YippyLil’Boy and headless lucy are conjoined twins? Coupled together (not in the Biblical sense, mind you) at the pea-brain?
A couple Johnny-One-Notes like them can only come out of a single gene pool.
Keep reminding everyone who the six repentents are so that headless will always have before it (eunuchs are genderless) the names of those who denounce it.
And it’s a Seattle School District computer? Hmmm…I wonder if but what a public disclosure request could be filed to at least identify the physical location of the computer such that the Seattle School District can investigate the improper use of its facilities, ID the perp, and discipline it (again…eunuch) most severely.
Justice must prevail!
The Piper
#77 ArtFart says:
I denounce the needless slaughter of anyone.
@78 What’s your point about genocide in Kosovo? That Clinton stopped it with a military action that didn’t result in a single American combat death? As I recall, you fucking wingnuts were against the Kosovo intervention because Muslim lives were saved, and you’ve been criticizing Clinton for saving those Muslim lives ever since.
What’s your point about genocide in Rwanda? That Clinton should have intervened? Disregarding the inconsistency of this position with the wingnuts’ criticism of Clinton for doing exactly that in Kosovo, the point is well taken — even Clinton admits he made a mistake and says he now regrets that decision. Unlike your trained monkey, he’s a man who is capable of owning up to his mistakes.
What genocide in “LA Latino neighborhoods”? Are you referring to LA’s gang warfare? How is that a presidential responsibility? Clinton got Congress to provide federal funds that enabled local communities to put 100,000 more cops on the streets. That helps, but policing ultimately is a local government responsibility. Do you really want POTUS meddling in that? And what did you trained monkey do? He cut off the funding for the extra cops, so those cop positions went away. He was against anything Clinton was for, you see. So, kiss goodbye to Clinton’s 100,000 cops. And of course crime rates have soared under the Bushevik regime (it also didn’t help that he pulled 1,200 FBI agents off domestic crime duties and didn’t replace them), and gang killings are rising. So the solution to gang warfare is what, to keep voting for juvenile incompetents? This isn’t a good issue for you to be waving as an example of Republican accomplishment, puddinghead.
#83 Piper Scott says:
Rumor I heard was that headless lucy is the aborted twin.
Funny you mentioned one note, headless lucy only knows 3 chords on the guitar. E, A & B. He wanted to be a famous musician, get babes, make some mad $$, ride around on big loud motorcycles.
The one thing that bothers me about your scenario… I believe headlless lucy enjoys the disciplinary action.
Hillary dreams she goes to heavan to ask St. Peter about her political future. She goes to his office and finds it filled with clocks.
St. Peter says each person in the world is given a clock, and every time that person tells a like, the clock hand moves one minute.
“For instance,” he said, “the clock over there where the hands haven’t moved? That’s Mother Theresa’s.”
“And this other clock over here where the minute hand is on the one? That’s George Washington’s.”
“Just out of curiousity, do you have a clock for my huband?” Hillary asks.
St. Peter says, “Sure…we use that one upstairs as a ceiling fan!”
When St. Peter mocks you, you must be in trouble!
The Piper
So while Piper has been trying to change the subject, nothing can change the fact that EVEN AFTER A 3/4 POINT RATECUT, and WITH THE FED HINTING THAT MORE RATECUTS MAY BE MADE IN THE NEAR FUTURE, the stock market still fell 128.11 points today, the DJIA stopping at 11,971.19.
#85 Roger Rabbit admitted:
No, the solution, like you said- “policing ultimately is a local government responsibility.”
So, you said it’s the local government’s responsibility, and you even asked, “how is it a presidential responsibility?”
So, using your own words, the crime problem isn’t due to Bush. What an honest man you are for admitting it. Although in a rather convoluted way.
It must suck to know that (a) your father lost his job because he didn’t “finish the job” in Iraq, and (b) he ignored the coming rescession because it didn’t affect him or anybody he knew, and (c) you tried to “finish the job” in Iraq, but ended up in a far bigger mess than your father did, and (d) your economic peformance is less than one-third as good as that of your father (on a per-year percentage basis).
90 Not when you’re bat-shit crazy enough to be proud of all that.
RHP6033@90: here he goes again with revisionist history.
A) THE UN MANDATE DIDN’T ALLOW IT.
B) Point taken
C) The Political correct world would not allow a WWII Style go in and wipe out the enemy.
D) A different world today.
Piper: Yelling Libby Blatherer and Racist Headcase are similar in thought action and style.
One runs away from the debate and the other changes their name not to debate.
There is no debate here:
Bush has spent us into a recession. He has proposed and approved massive deficit spending and the economy is still going south. The only people profiting are the very rich 1% who make over 1 million with their great tax cut.
Everyone else is taking 2 jobs at lower pay so the top executives can make exorbitant salaries for plunging their companies into restructuring.
The golden parachutes are for those at the top – the rest of the workers who actually do the work are fired in the economic downturn.
Energy prices are at an all time high. the trade deficit is at an all time high. American productivity is at an all time high but wages are the lowest in 20 years.
Gee – I wonder why the american consumer has no money to actually buy things?
and bush goes to Saudi Arabia to beg for lower oil prices (that was the secret energy plan the Cheney worked on…).
Pathetic…
I’m here Puddy. You’re ordering me to “debate” you. Tried it – didn’t like it. You just call names.
See ya in Nov.
Puddy at 92 said: “A) THE UN MANDATE DIDN’T ALLOW IT.”
Actually, I listed two reasons why Bush I didn’t win re-election. The first one was that he didn’t “finish the job with Iraq”. That wasn’t MY reason for not voting for Bush I, it was the reason A LOT OF RIGHT-WINGERS didn’t vote for Bush I. I am not one of them. Personally, I happen to agree that going all the way to Bahgdad in Gulf War I would have been a lousy idea, for all the reasons which are clearly apparant now.
But the lack of a UN Mandate to invade Iraq didn’t seem to bother Zippy (Bush II). He clearly stated that he was going to “deal with Iraq” (i.e., invade) whether the UN authorized him to do so or not. And unlike his Dad, he was going to push ahead, even if every Muslim country refused to join his alliance, or even cooperate with the invasion, except Kuwait.
Typical of Bush I. When he does look at history, he learns the wrong lessons. Regarding Vietnam, he said that history taught us the importance of being persistent and not wavering, staying the course in our foreign policy over the long term. (Did he really think we won that war by staying the course, or is he arguing that if we were STILL fighting in Vietnam, the situation would be better for both us and them?)