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The Iraq Chronicles

by — ,

(A weekly compilation of news you may or may not have seen or read regarding America’s most disastrous ridiculous war.)

President George Bush unwittingly embarrasses himself on the topic of Iraq most weeks, but this was a banner week. First, there was an unannounced Labor Day stop in the massive Marine base in Anbar Province known to Marines as Camp Cupcake, owing to its 13-mile perimeter, over 10,000 troops, and complete disconnect from the chaos that is the daily reality outside its well-guarded walls. While there, Bush hinted that he might reduce troop deployments by the end of the year — but on the same day, the AP was quoting unnamed administration officials as saying that his senior advisors have already told Bush that the escalation surge is going swell and not to let up now. (Gen. David Petraeus is scheduled to testify before Congress on Tuesday — 9-11! Get it? — and his written report on the escalation surge is due by the end of the week.)

Then it was on to Austria Australia, where, before meeting with OPEC APEC ministers, Bush blithely told Austrian Australian Deputy Prime Minister Mark Vaile that “we’re kickin’ ass” in Iraq. (My pet theory: Austrian Australian is not Bush’s native language, and in the awkwardness of trying to translate his remarks, he confused the subject and object. What he meant to say was “Our asses are getting kicked.” A totally understandable gaffe. The alternative, that the most powerful man in the world is living in a particularly destructive fantasy world, would be unthinkable.)

Bush was also embarrassed by a New York Times excerpt last weekend from a generally fawning new biography of him, in which the Commander-in-Chief expressed bewilderment that his administration disbanded Saddam’s army in the early days of the occupation, saying, essentially: “That wasn’t my policy. I don’t know how that happened.” The move is now widely regarded as an enormous mistake that put thousands of young Iraqi men with guns out of work and bitter toward the Americans about it — the nucleus of what became the insurgency. Thing is, Bush knew exactly what the policy was, because he ordered it — and Paul Bremer, then the US Viceroy to Iraq, promptly sent the Times the letters, memos, and documentation to prove it. Oops. (One more notch for the “fantasy world” theory.)

Petraeus’ report is expected to praise the military effort, but condemn Iraqi politicians for a lack of progress in reconciliation, signing over all Iraqi oil to American oil companies, and other “benchmarks” dear to US hearts and/or wallets. So, in its first week back after a month-long recess, what did the Iraqi Parliament do to scramble to impress the Americans with their determination to move ahead? They met for exactly 90 minutes, with only 154 of 275 members present — barely a quorum — and read into the record 10 minor noncontroversial bills, none having anything to do with American benchmarks or reconciliation. Most of their time was spent blaming each other for the country’s worsening violence (they don’t seem to share Bush or Petraeus’ view of the “success” of the escalation surge) and complete lack of basic government services or security. It doesn’t look good. At some point American media needs to figure out that the Iraqi government is a fiction outside the Beltway and Green Zone, and barely relevant inside those places, either.

Speaking of barely relevant: Congressional Democrats, in the runup to the Petraeus report, announced that in their negotiations with Bush they were willing to settle for a “goal” rather than “timetable” for withdrawal of US troops from Iraq. (I know: Democrats, Iraq, “negotiations with Bush,” and “willing to settle,” all in the same sentence. Shocking, but true.) And Ret. Marine Gen. James Jones, who headed a special panel looking into the effort to train Iraqi security forces, testified before Congress that his panel found the Iraqi army at least two years away from being able to operate independently, and that Iraqi police forces were so corrupt and so infiltrated by insurgent militia members that they should be disbanded. Gen. Jones concluded that “We should withdraw.” His testimony was essentially ignored by both the administration and national media.

The Brits, on the other hand, did withdraw: the last British soldiers pulled out of Basra this week, leaving Southern Iraq nominally under the control of the Iraqi Army, more realistically under the control of three mutually warring fundamentalist Shiite militias, and almost certainly about to receive American troops trying to push the chaos from one neighborhood, village, and province to another.

One more note, while folks concerned with Iraq await a report that was probably written in Cheney’s office a month ago: the ACLU filed suit this week to try to obtain Pentagon estimates of Iraqi civilian deaths. After denying for years that the U.S. government tracked Iraqi civilian deaths at all (what’s another dead Iraqi?), the Pentagon finally confirmed earlier this year that it does, in fact, produce intelligence estimates of civilian casualties — but has refused to make them public, just as it has refused to make public the secret formula by which it is calculating, in defiance of every known metric, that overall violence is down in the country due to the escalation surge. Perhaps this week they’ll let us in on the secret.

Or not.

Comments

  1. 1

    Another good roundup, Geov, thanks!

    General Jones has also been one of the most forthright and insightful voices talking about Afghanistan as well. I share your lack of surprise that his testimony was mostly ignored.

  5. 5

    Time says

    “A number of attempts to negotiate such a pact [with Iraqi Sunni insurgents] in the past have failed, for several reasons.
    – The foremost is that the insurgents hate the Americans as much as, if not more than, they hate al-Qaeda. Groups such as the Islamic Army and the Brigades of the 1920 Revolution — alongside which the U.S. fought on Thursday in Baghdad — continue to kill Americans at every opportunity: it is their badge of honor and recruitment tool. They also loathe the Shi’ite-led Iraqi government, branding it a puppet of an older, more reviled enemy: Iran.
    – It’s also not clear who really leads the Sunni insurgency and who is authorized to parley on their behalf. Previous insurgent “leaders” with whom the U.S. has held talks turned out to have have little or no contact with the top leadership. And the moment an insurgent commander is known to be talking to the Americans, he immediately becomes an assassination target for other groups, sometimes even his own.
    – If Sunni insurgent groups do respond positively to Odierno’s offer, it will be because they could use U.S. help in fighting al-Qaeda — but it won’t necessarily they’ll stop attacking Americans. There’s already clear evidence that some groups are playing both sides of the fence, collaborating with the U.S. by day and attacking it by night. Some of the Shi’ite militias who have infiltrated the Iraqi security forces are happy to receive American training and equipment, only to turn these against U.S. forces whenever the opportunity presents itself.
    – Moreover, no matter how hostile they are to al-Qaeda, Sunni insurgent groups are unlikely to recognize the current Iraqi government, much less swear loyalty to it. Insurgent commanders TIME has interviewed in recent months have been adamant in demanding that the U.S. suspend the current parliament, topple Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, and hand power to “real Iraqis” — in their lexicon meaning Sunnis.”

    http://www.time.com/time/world.....00,00.html
    It sounds like allying with Sunnis is a high-risk, low-payoff, proposition that is likely to fail. Are these the sorts of hare-brained plans for which we are supposed to continue to pony up hundreds of billions of dollars and our young peoples’ lives?

  7. 7

    It sounds like allying with Sunnis is a high-risk, low-payoff, proposition that is likely to fail.

    The Sunnis regard us as toddlers with big, fancy guns. And who can deny they’re right?

    Just look at the poor excuse for a “leader” we have in the White House.

  10. 10

    “Bush was also embarrassed by a New York Times excerpt … in which the Commander-in-Chief expressed bewilderment that his administration disbanded Saddam’s army in the early days of the occupation, saying, essentially: “That wasn’t my policy. I don’t know how that happened.” … Thing is, Bush … ordered it — and Paul Bremer … sent the Times the letters, memos, and documentation to prove it. Oops. (One more notch for the ‘fantasy world’ theory.)”

    This isn’t “fantasy,” it’s LYING.

    As General William Peers famously wrote in the preface to his report on the My Lai massacre, “The first duty of free men is to call things by their right name.”

  11. 11

    If you want to know what Iraq is really like, imagine a government run by Tim Eyman.

  12. 12

    No roads. No electricity. No water. No services of any kind. No security. No government. Nothing except a shitload of bloviating.

  13. 13

    @9 He’s also a deadbeat. A $100 bet he lost to Goldy is now nearly two years PAST DUE!!!

  14. 14

    Redneck, you’re fucking stoopid. You’re fucking irrelevant. Just fucking GO AWAY.

  16. 16

    Roger Rabbit says:

    If you want to know what Iraq is really like, imagine a government run by Tim Eyman.

    09/09/2007 at 1:03 pm
    Lets put it in better light a goverment ran by Roger Rabbit. Now OBL would have a real alliance to make this would a better place to live in a cave. Roger how is that new prayer rug working out?

  18. 18

    Roger Rabbit says:

    No roads. No electricity. No water. No services of any kind. No security. No government. Nothing except a shitload of bloviating.

    09/09/2007 at 1:04 pm
    Sounds like Seattle after a good wind storm or the schools closed because of snow flurries.

  19. 19

    Roger Rabbit says:

    @9 He’s also a deadbeat. A $100 bet he lost to Goldy is now nearly two years PAST DUE!!!

    09/09/2007 at 1:08 pm
    Roger you are no better when are you going to pay your Doctor?

  21. 21

    YLB says:

    It sounds like allying with Sunnis is a high-risk, low-payoff, proposition that is likely to fail.

    The Sunnis regard us as toddlers with big, fancy guns. And who can deny they’re right?

    Just look at the poor excuse for a “leader” we have in the White House.

    09/09/2007 at 9:52 am
    Now you voted for who?

  22. 22

    Using an unknown appendage, MTR writes @ 8:

    TSWITW hates corporations

    And the heads of those corporations are lining up to give her money.

    http://tinyurl.com/ysroeg

    Damn she’s good! She even has CEOs and Wall Street mavens snookered to her game of hating American Capitalism. How’d you get smarter than them Mark? And why ain’t you rich?

  23. 23

    YLB says:

    Thanks Geov for these notes on Dumbya’s endless folly.

    09/09/2007 at 9:48 am
    Yep and you vote for all those that support the war. Right they were toooo dumbbbbb to understand the problem. Anddddddddddddd they are deflrcting the problem because they don’t have a PLAN of their own. That if you considering cutting and running like Viet Nam a viable plan.

  25. 25

    How’d you get smarter than them Mark? And why ain’t you rich?

    So rich he can’t pay his fucking gambling debt and so smart he challenged a progressive to a bet and HE LOST.

    In other words, a loser.

  26. 26

    klake – I pity you. You fell off the wagon. It’s too obvious you’re binging on the sauce when you scribble your nonsense.

  27. 27

    jsa on commercial drive says:

    Using an unknown appendage, MTR writes @ 8:

    TSWITW hates corporations

    And the heads of those corporations are lining up to give her money.

    http://tinyurl.com/ysroeg

    Damn she’s good! She even has CEOs and Wall Street mavens snookered to her game of hating American Capitalism. How’d you get smarter than them Mark? And why ain’t you rich?

    Prostitution is one of the oldest profession in the world so what is she giving in return for the money?

  28. 28

    SeattleJew says:

    We could use the teacher to edit this thread.

    The Kids

    09/09/2007 at 1:32 pm
    You claim to be one whats your problem Professor?

  29. 29

    YLB says:

    klake – I pity you. You fell off the wagon. It’s too obvious you’re binging on the sauce when you scribble your nonsense.

    09/09/2007 at 1:36 pm
    Yep its reading Rogers Propaganda and you dance it tune with what he is writing. You know like that little dogie in the rear car window his head swinging with the motion of the cars and his eyes flashing red. The sky is falling the sky is falling in chicken little. Socialest Democrats with out a plan. Everybody else did not me and please not in my back yard. The neighbors (Canadains) will think ill of me and not visit my beautiful little world. Oh did you get your new prayer rug at the same place that Roger purchase his new silk rug?

  30. 30

    Showing his usual creative and literary verve, klake writes at 26:

    Prostitution is one of the oldest profession in the world so what is she giving in return for the money?

    Interesting question klake, I don’t know, don’t want to know, and don’t consider myself an HRC fan. She would e better than having a Republican in office, and that’s about as excited as I’ll get.

    there seems to be this meme floating through winger land that HRC is this massive closet socialist and has the destruction of American Capitalism in store once elected. The only problem with this is that she has topped the list for corporate donations. Not the top Democratic candidate. The top candidate period. So my question is, if she’s such a flaming socialist, how did she fool so many rich and bright people? And more imporatantly, why do wingers hate the heads of big corporations so much? I have been hearing you guys drool for years that the captains of industry are our best hope for salvation and much much better than mere politicians. You seem to be biting that proverbial hand now.

    If not for a slaving adoration for corporate capitalism, what else do you have to fall back on as a winger? I can’t imagine GWB’s jizz is that tasty, but perhaps you disagree.

  32. 32

    Petraeus’ report is expected to praise the military effort, but condemn Iraqi politicians for a lack of progress in reconciliation, signing over all Iraqi oil to American oil companies, and other “benchmarks” dear to US hearts and/or wallets.

    Geov are you playing on words or trying to take over Roger Rabbit old job as “ Minister for Public Enlightenment and Propaganda for the Socialist Democrats Party today just like Paul Joseph Goebbels was in Hitler Germany.” Now whom did you learn your skill sets from, because you are too young to remember World War II and probably was born after Viet Nam?

  33. 33

    1. jsa on commercial drive says:
    Showing his usual creative and literary verve, klake writes at 26:

    Prostitution is one of the oldest professions in the world so what is she giving in return for the money?

    Interesting question klake, I don’t know, don’t want to know, and don’t consider myself an HRC fan. She would e better than having a Republican in office, and that’s about as excited as I’ll get.
    I have been hearing you guys drool for years that the captains of industry are our best hope for salvation and much much better than mere politicians. You seem to be biting that proverbial hand now.
    If not for a slaving adoration for corporate capitalism, what else do you have to fall back on as a winger? I can’t imagine GWB’s jizz is that tasty, but perhaps you disagree.
    Well JSA I’m lost for words but having been in the military for many years I have seen many of the ism’s fail but they all have there weak points. The only on I support is the one everybody can be a player in win or lose. Now which party is best my opinion is none of them they all suck? One thing for sure if the Seattle rags support anyone thing I vote the opposite.

  34. 34

    To the Teachers …

    klake seems to only wnat to engage in invective. can’t we give him some time out?

    Klake,

    It is fine to be dyspeptic but if you must vomit, why not due it in your own home? Your rants about Roger being Goebbels is about as effective kin arguments as most of what GWB says.

    That said, I note that you were in the military. Thta is impressive. Can you tell us more? When? where? What did oyu do and what did you learn?

  35. 35

    klake seems to only wnat to engage in invective. can’t we give him some time out?

    Good point SJ. I don’t think you were around when JCH was at his worst. Klake isn’t much different. He spews the same old, same old taunts and useless garbage that JCH was known for.

    A banning is long, long overdue for klake the flake. He brings next to nothing to the table.

  37. 37

    It sure is great what the Aaerican military, at some non-trivial cost in lives and treasure, have been able to accomplish in a few neighborhoods in Baghdad (ignoring the increasing ethnic separation therein).

    So this is what we get for 20-30K extra troops. How many would it take to extend the miracle of the short-term escalation surge to all of Iraq? 200K additional troops? 250K more?

    Y’all know we don’t have them, right? Shinseki knew it from teh start. When he was saying it would take “several [three? / four?] hundred thousand troops” he knew damn well we didn’t have them. He was saying, in effect, “this is not possible.”

  38. 38

    @16 “Lets put it in better light a goverment ran by Roger Rabbit. Now OBL would have a real alliance to make this would a better place to live in a cave. Roger how is that new prayer rug working out?”

    What makes you think a rabbit can’t find a guy who hasn’t had a bath in six years?

  41. 41

    34:

    Suggesting that Flakey Klakey brings next to nothing to the table is too kind, in effect suggesting that there might actually be something in that empty head of his other than useless regurgitated talking points and blind hatred.

    Banning him would be useless, anyway. Constant ridicule is far more effective.

  43. 43

    Broadway Joe says:

    34:

    Suggesting that Flakey Klakey brings next to nothing to the table is too kind, in effect suggesting that there might actually be something in that empty head of his other than useless regurgitated talking points and blind hatred.

    Banning him would be useless, anyway. Constant ridicule is far more effective.

    09/09/2007 at 5:06 pm
    How sweet Joe and maybe your male partner will give you love and kisses nonight with a hand full of roses. Hatred is not a subject I talk much about, but chaps seem to sprew it all over this web site talking about how much you suport President Bush.

  45. 45

    @41 Klake …

    I have spent considerable time in Germany and consider Berlin one of my favorite places. Unlike the rest of Europe, Germany is aware of what happened ..just as we in America are aware of slavery. As a result Germany today has a sense of morality that I do not find in some other places in Europe. This reflects not only on the impressive record of Jews choosing to come live in Germany but a more thoughtful effort to relate to other minorities.

    May I suggest that you must have more interesting things to say? How about telling us something about your military experience or was that a faux comment?

  46. 46

    In his latest video, OBL gives you moonbats shit for not helping him defeat us.

    Umm…. does that seem sorta “odd” to you guys? Does it bother ya at all?

  48. 48

    44 MTR

    Umm, UBL’s stated opinions on a propaganda video are not a basis for serious discussion. Much like White House flack Petraeus’ “report.”

  49. 49

    DL – Why is it you guys breathlessly absorb every fucking word of our enemies, but challenge everything that our military people say?

    Also, do you know what the fucking law says regarding how the report is to be given? If not, I suggest you tune in to Fox or Limbaugh to find out the truth.

    You guys are on the wrong side of this. You fucked up. You’re screwed, and there’s not a fucking thing you can do about it.

  50. 50

    It is hard to argue that a president could have come up with a strategy more friendly to Osama bin Laden’s aims than GW Bush did.

  51. 51

    The “propaganda report” from OBL is identical in every respect to a speech given by TSWITW, The Empty Skirt, or The Breck Girl. Or algore, or the swiftboat liar, or reed or pelosi or any of the rest of the murka hating moonbats in congress…

    Not a whit of difference….

  53. 53

    Now single parents have to pay for the war:

    “Child support families frustrated over new fee

    “Associated Press

    “WASHINGTON, D.C. – Millions of families that turned to federal and state governments for help in collecting child support payments will now have to pay … $25 annually ….

    “The $25 will help reduce the federal deficit …. Two-thirds of the fee will go the federal government; one-third to the state.”

    Quoted under fair use; for complete article and/or copyright notice see http://www.king5.com/topstorie.....5b5d2.html

    Roger Rabbit Commentary: This fee amounts to a tax. Republicans oppose closing a tax loophole that lets hedge fund managers earning over a billion dollars a year to pay capital gains rates on their sales commission income. But this pathetic, twisted, asinine conservative administration is perfectly willing to nickel and dime single moms to whittle down a deficit created by tax cuts for the rich and spending on a reckless war! This pissant fee shows what Republicans’ true colors are. Why on God’s Green Earth would ANYONE ever vote for these assholes? Anyone who votes Republican needs mental health counseling.

  54. 54

    @40 Flakey klakie is a leading candidate for the honor of becoming the second troll to get banned from HA. (hint hint)

  55. 55

    @53 I’m all for having an open, uncensored blog … buuuuut … you’ve got to have a LITTLE bit of law and order to prevent anarchy.

  56. 56

    Daddy Love @ 48:

    Well, there are two goals to asymmetric warfare (or terrorism if big words scare you). One is to knock stuff down cheaply.

    The other is to get your opponent to spend and spend and spend and spend. The Soviets did not lose in Afghanistan militarily. They lost financially and morale-wise as they saw money and lives poured into a shithole without end.

    We have more money than the Soviets did, but we’re also spending it faster. There will come a day when someone does an audit and decides the cost:benefit ratio on Iraq doesn’t add up and will never add up.

    I think that point has already past, but I also think that because if we’re going to put down an insurgency, we’ll be there for 10 more years at least. Ask our friends in the UK about getting Northern Ireland under control. 10 years is on the optimistic side. Can you see any scenario where spending money at the present rate for 10 years is sustainable? Anybody?

    Certainly one or more of our trolls fancies themselves good with numbers, and can explain the finances of this for me.

    We’re in $450 billion for four years. Extrapolating this out for 10 years with 3% inflation built in gives us $1.7 trillion dollars (estimate of $112.5 billion / year, compounded by 3% annually).

    What exactly is $1.7 trillion dollars going to buy us? I am not seeing it.

  57. 57

    So you mean when Obama says he would send special forces into Pakistan to attack UBL, he’s playing into UBL’s hands, but when McCain says he would send armed forces into Pakistan after UBL, it’s the opposite of what UBL wants?

    And when Bill Richardson says he’ll withdraw all troops from Iraq it’s exactly what UBL wants, but when Hillary says she would leave a large residual force there, that’s exactly what UBL wants too?

    As al-Zawahiri said in 2003: “We thank God for appeasing us with the dilemmas in Iraq and Afghanistan. The Americans are facing a delicate situation in both countries. If they withdraw, they will lose everything, and if they stay, they will continue to bleed to death.”…

  58. 58

    I should have mentioned: My point with the al-Zawahiri quote is to illustrate how stupid it is to use propaganda statements to prove a point. According to AZ, they win either way.

    We have to decide (as jsa points out) what makes sense for us, and not dance to the Al Qaeda tune.

  60. 60

    MTR you’re so lame.

    whiny, singsong voice: “Democrats are like terrorists! Democrats are like terrorists!

    Good God.

  61. 61

    @49 MTR

    I rarely get mad here but MTR takes the cake. Accusing the dems of being complicit in el Quaeda should be beyond the the pale.

    Tell us, MTR, about YOUR serve to your country? You are not fit to wear an American uniform and I suspect like the rest of the Rovens you were a chicken hawk while friends of mine died.

    I am a very proud American who served during the ‘nam war under compulsion. I am NOT proud of that service but I value those who did serve with me AND those who fought wars of conscience to end that faikld war. People like Kerry AND both Clintons deserve a lot more admiration than the unpatriotic, self serving members of the cowards brigades whi now want to sacrifice other people’s kids to the effort to rescue our counbtry form Bush’s folly.

    The same goes for Mr. Obama’s servioce to his country as a poverty worker.

    Now, my foul mouthed friend tell mw how is it that amongst the leading candidates for the Reprican party, only Mr. McCain can brag, as he should, of proudly serving his country?

    Go hide under a rock.

  62. 62

    Let’s see, is violence up or down in Iraq?

    The White house and its shills say down.

    News organizations, the former Iraq Study Group, the Congressional Research Service, the GAO, the Jones commission, et. al. say up.

    Who to believe, who to believe?

  63. 63

    What makes me laugh is that our wingers think they’re sharp with money, and that they can make the government run like a business.

    In every business I’ve worked at, when 5% of your revenues are being pissed away on a project with no return, the plug gets pulled. Maybe MTR works at companies where they don’t do this.

  64. 64

    Rabbit 53 – I gotta agree with you.

    Those who breed indiscrimately should be totally exempt from the rules that apply to the rest of us. After all, they’re doing the world a huge favor.

    All single mothers should pay zero taxes, and should be able to live for “free” for their entire lives.

    It’s the right thing to do…

    Dumshit…

  66. 66

    Mark, you pulled that list straight out of your ass.

    I’ve already called you on HRC hating corporations and capitalism. ‘cuz corporations and capitalists sure love her.

    Only OBL loves Chomsky. I don’t think HRC has said anything about him. Chomsky is a genius. His theories on linguistic adoption and deep patterns were groundbreaking. His writings on foreign policy are half-baked at best.

    Hating Christians is interesting. Can you provide some citations? (For HRC. OBLs disgust with Christians is pretty well-documented).

    Global warming. Ain’t going to go there with you.

    Wants the military to lose. By keeping a presence in Iraq? Yes, I suppose we’ll “lose” that way too, but it’ll take a lot longer and cost a lot more.

    I’m only bothering with you because I’m having a lazy day, and I want you to keep typing. You make Democrats (and everyone else not as insane and misogynistic as you) look good.

  67. 67

    There’s a wonderful image from a debate between Gary Locke and Ellen Craswell years back where Craswell was going just apeshit in a televised debate and saying that rapists should be castrated, electrocuted, buried, and then really hurt. She ran her time out, and the moderator called time. Gary was motioning “No! No! Let her keep talking!”

    That’s how I feel when you post on here Mark. Keep going. Tell us what for.

  68. 68

    Been married to a wonderful woman for 14 years, Flakey Klakey. But when I come up to Seattle in October, I think I can arrange the time to make you my bitch.

    Bring it on, punk.

  69. 69

    Daddy Love says:

    Let’s see, is violence up or down in Iraq?

    The White house and its shills say down.

    News organizations, the former Iraq Study Group, the Congressional Research Service, the GAO, the Jones commission, et. al. say up.

    Who to believe, who to believe?

    Who the cares if we don’t keep the bombers in the Middle East they will be blowing up your neigborhood. Yep just like the sixties burn down your own neighborhood and the goverment will rebuild it just like New Oreleans. Yep leave it up to a bunch a donks they will do anything for a vote. Let bring in all home, sort it all out, after we adandon Iraq we can bow to OBL, and Roger will share his new silk prayer rug.Yep and Darryl will be supporting the ACLU filed suit this week to try to obtain Pentagon estimates of Iraqi civilian deaths. Yes lets defelect the real problem and inroduce the ACLU who will save us from OBL. Yep defeat, cut, and run is Darryl main Plan to win the war in Iraq. Roger Darryle is trying to take over your job. Who can sprew more bull shit him or you?

  70. 70

    Broadway Joe says:

    Been married to a wonderful woman for 14 years, Flakey Klakey. But when I come up to Seattle in October, I think I can arrange the time to make you my bitch.

    Bring it on, punk.

    Poor lady she married a girlie boy what dumb luck. You can visit Rogger at Walla Walla and meet soom of his old friends. They are more your type and love someone to be their bitch. Speaking of barely relevant: Congressional Democrats, in the runup to the Petraeus report, announced that in their negotiations with Bush they were willing to settle for a “goal” rather than “timetable” for withdrawal of US troops from Iraq. But maybe you can help you friend in DC deal with the President on how to win this war over in Iraq. You would make a great bitch with your friends after you win the debate on the war in Iraq.

  71. 71

    Klake the flake @ 69,

    “Yep and Darryl will be supporting the ACLU filed suit this week to try to obtain Pentagon estimates of Iraqi civilian deaths. Yes lets defelect the real problem and inroduce the ACLU who will save us from OBL. Yep defeat, cut, and run is Darryl main Plan to win the war in Iraq. Roger Darryle is trying to take over your job. Who can sprew more bull shit him or you?”

    Gee…I would like to respond to your tripe, but I have no fucking idea what you are babbling about.

    Helpful hint: Drinking and blogging don’t mix. Choose one or the other, squirt.

  72. 72

    Darryl,

    The rambling stream of consciousness suggests something other than liquor.

    Need refills Klake? You know what they say, BC Bud is the best in the world, and I can get it for you wholesale.

  73. 73

    Tell us, MTR, about YOUR serve to your country? You are not fit to wear an American uniform and I suspect like the rest of the Ravens you were a chicken hawk while friends of mine died.
    I am a very proud American who served during the ‘nam war under compulsion. I am NOT proud of that service but I value those who did serve with me AND those who fought wars of conscience to end that faikld war. People like Kerry AND both Clintons deserve a lot more admiration than the unpatriotic, self serving members of the cowards brigades whi now want to sacrifice other people’s kids to the effort to rescue our counbtry form Bush’s folly.
    The same goes for Mr. Obama’s servioce to his country as a poverty worker.
    Now, my foul mouthed friend tell mw how is it that amongst the leading candidates for the Reprican party, only Mr. McCain can brag, as he should, of proudly serving his country?
    Go hide under a rock.

    Folks I have to warn you the wine bottle by itself pour me two glasses of wine and I could not resist. Mr. Seattle Jew you really need to see your Doctor for you gat a small mental problem. Today you would not be drafted into or allowed into our military for many reasons and lets leave it at that. Until the women are allowed to be drafted into the military today, there will be no draft. Seattle Jew you should never have been drafted into the military and not all you folks can perform in the military like Roger. With that being said, anyone who serve their country should be given credit for what they have done no matter where or at what capacity. To be President does not require that person to have served in the battlefield or served in the Peace Corps. Those who cut and run under fire or support the enemy just for personal gain serve the coward’s brigades. The real Folly today is all those folks who voted for this war and claim Bush lied, but they were to dumb to know better. Now Seattle Jew where is your kids today, lets hope they are serving the Pease Corps? Now for myself, I just retired from the military not by my own choosing but due to reaching the age of sixty. Now President Clinton and Bush you all like to beat up on, they both served their country in the only fashion they could. Now could they do more? Maybe but does it really matter? The only thing I have for you is that PRIDE does not win wars but hard work by professionals in the art of warfare. Something you do not teach in your college or the local high schools. McCain is not the only to talk about war just because he served in Viet Nam or Kerry because he supported the North Vietnams in Paris during the war. There are many Vets from many different wars who opinion counts today as much as your own. From my point of view, some soldiers are more qualified than others are but that does not degrade their opinion. What is your litmus test for a chicken hawk? Oh thanks for your service even though it was under duress.Oh by the way after denying for years that the U.S. government tracked Iraqi civilian deaths at all (what’s another dead Iraqi?), the Pentagon finally confirmed earlier this year that it does, in fact, produce intelligence estimates of civilian casualties — but has refused to make them public, just as it has refused to make public the secret formula by which it is calculating, in defiance of every known metric, that overall violence is down in the country due to the escalation surge. Who care what the metric is and besides if you want a count buy a plane ticket Geov and lets us know how many have died in this war. I quite counting after Viet Nam except Roger he does it every night in his sleep.

  74. 74

    Darryl says:

    Klake the flake @ 69,

    “Yep and Darryl will be supporting the ACLU filed suit this week to try to obtain Pentagon estimates of Iraqi civilian deaths. Yes lets defelect the real problem and inroduce the ACLU who will save us from OBL. Yep defeat, cut, and run is Darryl main Plan to win the war in Iraq. Roger Darryle is trying to take over your job. Who can sprew more bull shit him or you?”

    Gee…I would like to respond to your tripe, but I have no fucking idea what you are babbling about.

    Helpful hint: Drinking and blogging don’t mix. Choose one or the other, squirt.

    09/09/2007 at 9:52 pm
    You deleated it

  75. 75

    Klake @ 74

    “You deleated it”

    Tough luck, Squirt. Study the comment policy, and next time take your off-topic nonsense to an open thread.

    Sheesh…it’s like we have to potty train these Wingnuts.

  76. 76

    BBC cites a poll:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6983841.stm

    70% of Iraqis believe security has deteriorated in the area covered by the US military “surge” of the past six months, an opinion poll suggests.
    The survey by the BBC, ABC News and NHK of more than 2,000 people across Iraq also suggests that nearly 60% see attacks on US-led forces as justified.

    Is this fucking crazy or what? I ask, HOW can the American government expect the armed forces to succeed at doing ANYTHING in Iraq, particularly by merely staying longer? Crazy fucks.

  77. 77

    Statement:
    “the Iraq War is terrible but we have a moral obligation to continue occupying the country indefinitely against the will of the Iraqi people”

    Defend?

  78. 78

    Has anyone else noticed that the vast majority of Americans have committed the treasonous act of wanting us to withdraw our troops from Iraq? One wonders where we will obtain a sufficient number of gallows.

  79. 79

    Iremember someone recently pointing out that “we’re not arming” the Sunni insurgents we’re in bed with. I think that’s true in Baghdad and not Anbar, but here’s my point: WE’RE GIVING THEM MONEY. And last I heard, people will still take that and hand you a rifle. Right?

  80. 80

    And how is a police force that contains a larger proportion of Sunni militias to Shia militias in its composition a big step forward?

  81. 81

    More from the same poll of Iraqis…

    47% of Iraqis say they want us to leave immediately, up from 35% before the surge.

    35% think that an American withdrawal will make civil war more likely, while 46% say civil war would be less likely.

    Talk about your “realities on the ground!” Start dealing with reality, people.

  82. 82

    @76
    The testimony by Patraeus is really bugging you…?
    I especially like the netroots, ultra-lib, move-on crowd attempting to discredit Gen Patreaus by taking an add out in the NY Times before he testifies.

    The just solidifies the point that success in Iraq, good news for the US as we fight a global war against terrorism, is bad for the Democrat party.

    If things keep improving, the Democrats hitching themselves to the “defeat waggon” will prove to be a very critical error.

  83. 83

    82 RS

    Are you referring to Bush PR flack David Petraeus? General “I’m claiming things but you can’t see the numbers” Petraeus? “All I need is six more months, repeat into infinity” Petraeus? General “Even though my direct superior Adm. Fallon thinks we should reduce our presence in Iraq by three-quarters because we’re gutting our capabilities, I still want more guys for my mission” Petraeus?

    Why don’t you point out to all of us the “success” we’re having in Iraq?
    How’s that “government of national reconciliation” working out? And didn’t the Jones Commission report that the national police should be disbanded and that the armed forces are at least 12-18 months from being effective?

    Oh, I forgot, a couple of Baghdad neighborhods are quieter now that they threw the Sunnis out, and the insurgency moved north. Makes all the difference, doesn’t it?

    And for that, we should stay another six months, until we’re forced to draw down our forces to pre-escalationsurge levels by necessity. Then we keep 120,000 troops there indefinitely against the will of the Iraqi populace—for what?

  84. 84

    @82: Please cite evidence that our presence in Iraq is doing any good.

    When I posted my discomfort with the idea of pulling out (in another thread) a number of posters showed documentation indicating that we’re doing more harm there than good.

    Do me a favor and stop with the hair pulling. Make your best argument. Convince me that there’s any good coming from the surge.

    ‘Cause that’s how this “debate” thing works, see?

    -OM

  86. 86

    @83
    I guess that answers my question about General Patraeus’s testimonty…..

    “Why don’t you point out to all of us the “success” we’re having in Iraq?

    Shoot I don’t have to.. Why not ask Rep Baird? or Katie Curic?
    Greater security, less coalition casualties, less sectarian violence, increased rediness of Iraqi army, Al Qaeda losing support. All successes.

    The National Police is a minority faction of the overall Iraqi security apparatus. No doubt, the problems of that group need addressing and if it means starting over, so be it. Get it right, so we can do what we all want, bring all the troops home.

  87. 87

    “Success” In Iraq and “good news for the US as we fight a global war against terrorism”…

    …the Bush administration’s campaign in Iraq has diverted troops, money and equipment from the hunt for bin Laden since late 2001, and Pakistani forces aren’t able to operate effectively on their side of the border.

    Bin Laden has used those advantages to secure safe harbor in the tribal area of Pakistan bordering Afghanistan, rebuild al Qaida’s inner circle, train a new generation of jihadis and expand ties to Middle Eastern and North African terrorist groups, said U.S., Afghan and Pakistani officials and experts.

    http://www.mcclatchydc.com/226/story/19553.html

  89. 89

    @87
    I recommend the book “Lone Survivor” if you want to get a first hand account of the challenges of opertating in the tribal mountain regions between Afghanistan and Pakistan.

    And to say that UBL has “secured safe harbor in the tribal area of Pakistan bordering Afghanistan” is complete guess work. SWAG

  90. 90

    “Greater security, less coalition casualties, less sectarian violence, increased rediness of Iraqi army, Al Qaeda losing support. All successes. ”

    I love the “increased readiness of the Iraqi Army.” No, they’re not. They have like one division that can operate with only supply and air support from the US. They had (according to the administration) MORE ready units two years ago. Their readiness is DECREASING, not increasing.

    “Coalition casualties” are up month-for-month over last year. (http://icasualties.org/oif/)

    And here (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200.....a_of_stats)

    “In vertical bars of blue, green, gray and red, a briefing chart prepared by the Defense Intelligence Agency says what Gen. David Petraeus won’t. Insurgent attacks against Iraqi civilians, their security forces and U.S. troops remain high, according to the document obtained by The Associated Press.”

    “Less sectarian violence.” Don’t you think that’s probably because they stopped counting Shiite infighting, people shot in the front of the head, and flks killed by teh Sunnis that we’re aiding?

    General James Jones of the Jones Commission (http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/08/crs-al-qaeda/, watch the video) agrees that “…two percent or fewer of the adversaries that we’re facing in Iraq and that the Iraqis are facing in Iraq are foreign jihadis or AQI affiliates, [and] 98 percent or more are Iraqis fighting amongst Iraqis for the future of Iraq.” Al Qaeda losing support? So what? That ain’t the problem, bro. Now al Qaeda in Pakistan is a different matter. How we doin’ there?

    And lastly (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6983841.stm) 70% of Iraqis believe that security has deteriorated in the areas covered by the US “surge.” We have lost teh battle of hearts and minds. Did you learn nothing from Vietnam? We cannot “win.” It is an endless quagmire of death and failure.

  91. 91

    89 RS

    And I recommend getting your nose out of your right-wing circle of propaganda and pay attention to the news. It aint’ good.

  92. 92

    89 RS

    Yeah, because U.S., Afghan and Pakistani officials and experts don’t know anything.

  93. 93

    So a book hawked by a right-wing dude in a blog comments thread about a commander who lost all of his men in a disastrous operation on the Afghan-Pakistan border (a book that is, incidentally, intended to be read by an audience right-wing dudes from blog comment threads who are starved tor positive news about world events) is supposed to convince me that a national news organization’s reporting of interviews with U.S., Afghan and Pakistani officials and experts is somehow “complete guess work?”

    Sure pal. Put down the Kool-Aid.

  94. 94

    Actually it gives great detail of the challenges in fighting the Taliban and Al Qaeda in the tribal regions between Afghanistan and Pakistan. It gives great detail in terms of Pashtun people, customs, tribal alligiances, and how we are fighting in that arena.

    It is also a great narrative of American Warriors. We owe tham much.

  95. 95

    You know if you listened to the administration or the generals, we’ve been “making progress” and having “increased success” such as “increased readiness of iraqi troops” for every year since the invasion.

    Too bad that it’s been getting worse the whole time. It’s so easy to believe them now.

    You might notice if you put down your book and read the news that the American people don’t believe these guys any more.

  96. 96

    American Warriors. We owe tham much.

    We do, but we do not owe them idolatry. And we do not owe them the royal screwing we have been giving them in Iraq since they got there. Let’s honor what we owe them by getting them out of a kill zone that offers us no benefit.

  97. 97

    We also owe our warriors better that leaving them to fight and die for nothing in a country that overwhelmingly does not want them there.

  98. 98

    Patraeus

    I would take your claims to respect the general more seriously if you would respect him enough to learn his name.

  99. 99

    How do YOU, RS, ask some young man to be the last man to die for the colossal mistake that is our invasion and occupation of Iraq?

  101. 101

    Daddy Love says:

    How do YOU, RS, ask some young man to be the last man to die for the colossal mistake that is our invasion and occupation of Iraq?

    First I would thank them for their service and the thank their families for their sacrifices. I would tell that young man how humbled I was for his sacrifice to serve, defend and protect our country and our freedoms from those who wish to kill us and our way of life. I would tell him how great and proud his service is. How a greateful nation should honor men like him. I would tell him how grateful I am that he is out there, engaging enemies on foreign soil, protecting my family, so we don’t have to face those enemies here.

  102. 102

    100 RS

    I hate to be the one to break it to you, but Iraqis are people who, you know live in Iraq. Not “here.” And what they want is to live their freakin’ lives without Armed American soldiers shooting them and American warplanes bombing their homes.

    But if you think there is something about a huge, debilitating US military presence in Iraq, opposed by virtually all Iraqis, that will somehow keep a dedicaed terrorist from contemplating or attempting an attack on American soil, please share it with us. How exactly deos that work? Please be as detailed as you can.

  103. 103

    And (re: “protecting your family”) how many foreign or domestic terrorists do you think will attack suburban Seattle?

  104. 104

    Besides, it’s no surprise that dumping 30,00 additional troops in a localized area could result in localized security improvement. But
    (a) We can’t sustain that additional 30K troop deployment
    (b) We can’t extend such an escalation across the entire country
    (3) No improvements in the Iraqi political climate are occurring

    This is not the definition of success. It’s a gimmick. It’s a tactical improvement that has no bearing on our strategic position.

  105. 105

    You know, success in a war is fairly easy to see. If we were seeing it, we’d all know. It has, after all, been longer that the WWII European or Japanese campaigns. But we all know what we are seeing, and it isn’t success.

  106. 106

    Just FYI (http://www.smh.com.au/news/Wor.....68382.html):

    Most Americans see the Iraq war as a failure, despite a US build-up of 30,000 troops, an Associated Press-Ipsos poll shows.

    …Just 36 per cent in the AP poll said the troop increase has helped stabilise Iraq, only slightly more than the 32 per cent who said they thought it would in February as the build-up began. Voicing that view were almost two-thirds of Republicans, about one in seven Democrats and about a third of independents.

    In addition, 59 per cent said they believe history will judge the Iraq war as a failure, including 28 per cent who said it would be viewed as a complete failure.

    Asked if the United States made a mistake going to war in Iraq in 2003, 57 per cent said yes, about the same number who said so in April.

    Petraeus, Schmetraeus. The people know better.

  107. 107

    Re: “readiness of iraqi troops”…

    Um, gee…even if Petraeus was cooking the books (and he was), check slide 13 in this series:
    http://www.latimes.com/media/a.....455446.pdf

    Slide 13, you see, shows the readiness of the Iraqi army. Level 1 means “fully independent.” Level 2 means “Iraqi lead with coalition support.” At the beginning of the year we had 15 Level 1 units. Today we have 12, and Level 2 units have gone from 78 to 83.

    Progress!

  108. 108

    You liberal cry babies have no right to dishonor President Bush. He saved all your asses after Sadam sent the planes to NYC (which probably killed more liberals than real Americans since it is NYC after all – ha ha). Bush brought Saddam to his knees and killed him like a rat. All you cowards should join the army and go defend our country from the terrorists that want to kill your kids, you assoles. tkisting@aol.com

  109. 109

    You liberal cry babies have no right to dishonor President Bush. He saved all your asses after Sadam sent the planes to NYC (which probably killed more liberals than real Americans since it is NYC after all – ha ha). Bush brought Saddam to his knees and killed him like a rat. All you cowards should join the army and go defend our country from the terrorists that want to kill your kids, you assoles.

    Now THAT’S great parody.

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