Great piece by Don Duncan in today’s Seattle Times. I don’t say it often, but truly great piece in the Seattle Times.
UPDATE:
And while I’m at it, great piece in today’s Washington Post.
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Don’s piece was a breath of fresh air – I read it about fifteen minutes before I came over here this morning.
I rread it as well. Great piece.
Good stuff.
The DLC and the beltway Dems. are to the right of the ’72 Republican platform, they really shouldn’t be claiming they’re the center.
One of my great uncles helped build the PPM, I think of him and my great aunt every time I go there.
Thanks for the pointer.
Darcy and Goldy vs. Wise Old an?
The piece by Joel Connelly castigating Goldy for supporting Darcy on the Pratt River Issue is also wotrth reading. The essence is that Reichert has pushed legislation creating a reserve in the Pratt river. Darcy has demeaned this, apparently on purely partisan grounds.
This is a tough issue that could haunt Darcey. If Joel is right, Reichert can now accuse her of being too late to work in a non partisan mode. This also strains her claims to the intellectual high ground.
I wonder how Tom will respond?
oops … my m key is still sick. Last post should read “Wise Old Man.”
The Great Depression happened on the cheap labor conservatives’ watch. So did most of the financial panics that preceded it. So did the Reagan Depression, the only time since the 1930s that American unemployment has reached double digits. Do you see a pattern here?
Thanks Goldy, the Duncan piece IS excellent. I now look at the PPM through new eyes.
If you still don’t get it, look at this:
Jobs created as percentage of workforce (from best to worst)
Democrat Roosevelt 5.3%
Democrat Johnson 3.8%
Democrat Carter 3.1%
Democrat Truman 2.5%
Democrat Clinton 2.4%
Democrat Kennedy 2.3%
Republican Nixon 2.2%
Republican Reagan 2.1%
Republican Coolidge 1.1%
Republican Ford 1.1%
Republican Eisenhower 0.9%
Republican Bush Sr. 0.6%
Republican Bush Jr. (0.7%)*
Republican Hoover (9.0%)
* Through 2003
Source: James Carville, “Had Enough?” (Simon & Schuster, 2003), p. 87.
I’ve never been as poor as they were in the Depression, but I was poor enough in my youth to go hungry and be forced to live in flophouses and work in dirty minimum wage jobs (back when the minimum wage was $1.25) and that’s what changed me from a Goldwater Republican to an FDR Democrat. I learned who my friends were … not the people stealing the butter off my bread.
@5 The Connelly-Goldy row boils down to this: Joel is a journalist who must be “neutral” and is acculterated to report both sides of story. He’s been around a long time and yearns for the old days when parties and candidates competed instead of waging Gingrich-style “civil war” and got things done with bipartisanship. And Joel is clear-eyed enough to see who started the “civil war”:
“The political right started it: It gave Bill Clinton neither a meter of slack nor a minute of peace. In my years getting e-mail, I’ve yet to receive a single positive news release from the Republican National Committee. Sneering attacks on women in public life are a signature of conservative Web sites.”
But here’s where Joel’s drill bit drifts sideways:
“Why does the left now have to ape the right?”
Because they’re Nazis, Joel. Because they attacked us, and we can’t defend oursleves with nice. How do you practice bipartisanship with people who see politics as war, and say in public they want to kill you? Joel, Joel, Joel … Churchill was right, Chamberlain was wrong. I love peace too, Joel, but you can’t get peace by surrendering to those who want war. Joel, you’re old enough to remember and know better. When an angry, fanatical, violent movement seeks to destroy everything in its path, you either fight or die.
Joel, Goldy is right about the Far Right, and so is Roger Rabbit … and you’re not. The old Republican Party doesn’t exist anymore. America’s two major parties today are the Progressive Party and the Fascist Party. That’s the way it is.
Right on, Roger.
And I’ve been so displeased with the DLC for the past 5 years that I am wary of Hillary because of her husband’s sellout to it.
Yes, Joel, we beat up on Reichert here. What do you expect? This is a liberal blog populated by partisans and activists. Why do you expect us to shill for a political opponent on the cusp of an election season?
Joel, there’s not much wrong with your eyesight. Even though you’re an old guy now, you still have 20-20 vision. For example, you called it right when you painted Ralph Pombo as a bad guy. (N.B., Pombo was not only thoroughly reactionary, he also was thoroughly corrupt.) But maybe you’re catching a touch of glaucoma. Your own closing lines are perhaps more telling than you can see:
“In our interview, Reichert got personal: He talked about how outdoor ‘adventures’ are a family tradition he wants to pass on to the grandkids. The lakes of the upper Pratt might be a destination for the Reichert brood.”
Is that Reichert’s litmus test for environmental issues? He’s willing to save a mountain valley from despoliation if HE wants to take HIS family hiking there? And let developers and miners and clear cutters have everything else? What kind of environmentalism is that?!
Joel, do you understand now why we sometimes take issue with your journalism-lite? Where’s the hard-hitting, take-no-bullshit writing of the old days, back when journalists called things by their right name and told it the way it is? Burner may have a clumsy flack, but that’s not the story here. Reichert is no environmentalist. That’s the story.
Reichert’s Pratt River idea is a good example of green washing. Reichert is trying to claim to be an environmentally friendly congressman by proposing one little wilderness area while being in opposition almost every other piece environmental legislation coming down the pike, including restoring the roadless rule from the Clinton Admin.
Connelly is correct that “The Pratt River would make a splendid addition to the Alpine Lakes”, but Reichert’s track record on environmental issues runs in opposition to the work of groups like The Cascade Land Conservancy and The Checkerboard Project which are working to improve the heath of the Cascade bio region. Adding the Pratt River while destroying everything else is a bad move.
Connelly is a great guy, but has reached retirement age and it’s showing.
http://www.cascadeland.org/
http://cascade.sierraclub.org/.....eckerboard
Roger Rabbit
I think waht Joel is saying is that wed do not want to have the progressive movement turn into Bushism. Democrats who are as reality denying, crony worshiping, idealogues, as the Bushicans w ould be no better than the current crop of Publicans.
Just remember the Adams-Jefferson-Hamilton confrontation. The Adas regime was a lot like the Bushies, only smarter. Like Bush they believed in fictional beings … esp. the enemey aliens in our midst. Like Bush they painted the other party, ironically then called Republicans, as radicals. The more extreme of the Whigs would have made GW (another irony) a King if he (unlike this GW) had not understood what a bad idea that was.
When old TJ took over he proved to be very rational guy, reality based government triumphed over the demagoguery Adams and his cohorts rightly pointed out in Jefferson’s writings.
Assuming JC (third irony) has his facts right, it seems to me that Darcy has made a serious mistake. If the Pratt river effort by El Sharif is a good thing, it is both dishonest and foolish to oppose it. She is opening herself to charges by Tom of lack of experience. Moreover, noone expects a Deo landslide in the Eastside. To win in November, DB will need moderate and independent votes who prefer to have a right of center (if that is what he is) Publican as a representative then a far leftie (if that is what she is).
So, I wonder if Goldy or others here might know more about this decision? Is there an agenda here on the part of Reichert that is not what it appears to be? Does this decision enrich the rich?
Personally, this illustrates the sad state of journalism. If Joel is correct, then why isn’t her stand and his stand being analyzed?
@13 .. Agism and Condescension
As I approach the double 66 year, I am offended by your agist comments on Joel.
If what YOU say is correct, Darcy should PRAISE Reichert for joining with the good people and invite hi to rethink hos other stands.
Personally, before y DL days I never read Joel … he seemed more fish wrapper than news print. I was wrong and have come to listen to him not only for his wisdom but his awesome knowledge.
What in hell would you trade a JC for? Look around you at wehat is out there. We have this blog, the premier prog. voice of Seattle. How often do we have the kind of depth Joel offers each day he published a column?
让Joel 居住一千年!
Препятствуйте Joel живите тысяча лет!
@14 I’m not saying Burner handled this well. As for progressives turning into Busheviks, no, I’m not worried about that because we’re not them. When the G.I.s landed in France they fought like hell, but after they won their war and came home, they became decent and civilized family men again. Democrats are going to take America back. We’re not only going to run the rightwing haters out of public office, we’re going to run them out of our culture, and out of society. When that job is done, and we have a reasonable opposition to deal with again, we’ll go back to bipartisanship, negotiation, and compromise. But right now we’re at war. We’ve made the initial landings, but we’re still fighting in the hedgerows. For the present and immediate future, we still have to be partisan warriors. Just remember this, SJ: We didn’t start this “civil war.” But we’re going to finish it — that’s a promise.
@15 Yes, I concede Joel’s wisdom and knowledge. The guy has depth, knows this town, has the perspective that comes with long experience. That’s why it bothers me to see him suck up to the wrong guys as much as he does.
I would like to see Joel call “bullshit” on bullshit more than he does.
#9 Roger Rabbit says:
Forced to go hungry and live in flophouses and work dirty minimum wage jobs because your parents were AWOL when you were a kid? Or at/after the age of 18 you didn’t have any employable job skills?
Roger:
Marvelous Marvin the Moron seems to imply that he is employed/employable and that his parents were married. Or at least knew each other.
I think his posts suggest otherwise.
Can we agree on this?
I was not an analogy to the Bolsheviks. As you know that was a coup, not a democratic process. Better examples, unfortunately exist within the democratic process .. Peron, Hughie Long, Castro, James Michael Curley … there are shades of abuse here.
Obviously DB is not a demagogue. OTOH, Reichert has supported rightist demagoguery. If we ant long term effects we really need to look back at Jefferson, Kennedy, even Johnson and even John Adams, Goldwater and perhaps (albeit senile) RR. These guys differed from Bush I, Bush II, and most of current Elephant Club in two things … a real desire to serve their countrymen and a commitment to the representative process.
Frankly, I am skeptical that “we” are better than “they.” Therre are some pretty self serving demoes in this state who have abuot as much real interest in the public good as the typical Bush appointee.
Look, I am all for going tooth and nail after “them” as long as we maintain our commitment to honesty. As one example, I oppose the idea of sending to Alberto to Guantano for the same reason I opposed the impeachment of Clinton for his poor choice of penis lickers.
#20 chadt says:
So my parents were married and I’m employable, it that what offends you so much? It’s the American dream.
Roger Rabbit says:
The Great Depression happened on the cheap labor conservatives’ watch. So did most of the financial panics that preceded it. So did the Reagan Depression, the only time since the 1930s that American unemployment has reached double digits. Do you see a pattern here?
It not how you start, it’s how you end. The entire Carter presidency was a disaster, especially the end.
At the end of Reagan term America was at the height of its glory. America was at it best.
#9 Roger Rabbit says:
Nothing like a very biased source to quote. Silly rabbit.
And what did Reagan do in Lebanon? Put troops in without understanding the situation and then cut an ran when attacked. He also Gave Bin Laden his start, arming him in Afghanistan.
Good work St. Ronnie
At the end of Reagan term
Ronnie was haplessly following Nancy around and going on the advice of her astrologer. And remember a little embarrassment called Iran-Contra?
Raygun was spinning science-fiction tales (invasions from Mars, not to mention Star Wars) with Gorby in Iceland and in a speech before the United Nations. He was fast approaching Death Valley Days.
I’d say Raygun was the third or fourth worst President this country has had behind Shrubya and Harding and some other loser who was in way over his head. There’s a lot to choose from.
It not how you start, it’s how you end.
How did Hoover end up DOOFUS? I’ll tell you – read the Sea Times article Goldy links.
But you won’t read it because you’re a right-wing lie addict.
Hoover never went to one of his “Hoovervilles”. IIRC, he was rich.
Roger Rabbit @11 and 13 is right on about connelly. to me the jc piece read like a tantrum against goldy in the form of a free greenwashing (michael @14) ad for reichert.
seattle jew you are at best clueless as burner commended reichert for seeking to add to the alpine lakes wilderness while also pointing out what a terrible environmental record the man has.
i sent a letter to the PI ed on the connelly piece:
Dear Editor: Joel Connelly shoots himself and all of us hardworking 8th Congressional District grassroots workers in the foot with his petty diatribe against David Goldstein and praising Republican Dave Reichert for supporting an extension of the Alpine Lakes Wilderness Area. First, Darcy Burner commended Reichert for supporting the extension but accurately pointed out that the man has a weak environmental record in his 2 plus years in Congress. For example, Reichert voted to permit drilling for oil in ANWR in December, 2005, and then went forth and misrepresented that vote to anyone who would listen. Second, one effort to extend wilderness protection does not offset 90% of rubberstamps of the Bush-Cheney agenda. While Connelly was shmoozing at the Yearly Kos, Reichert was voting to deny medicaid coverage for kids and to authorize the previously felonious warrantless eavesdropping by the Bush-Cheney administration as “lawful” under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. Not to mention the removal of the habeas corpus rights for Bush-Cheney’s detainees that emanated from the 13th century Magna Carta that Reichert voted away last year in the Miltary Tribunal legislation. Sometimes Joel misses the forest for the trees.
30
Actually, this is exactly what i was hoping. Did she do commend him? can you give me a link?
@25 Reagan the myth.
Are you serious? We yhad fumbled the end of the cold war by failing t support Gorby, we had undermined Taiwan and created Hussein, we had failed to support Allende, and we had a President in diapers.
And that was the height of our power? Scary!
re 25: One thing about Reagan and BushI: They understood the limitations of traditional U.S. military might.
Panama.
Grenada.
Central American and South American right wing death squads.
Run into Iraq, bomb the hell out it, and then get the hell out.
No internal agonizing about what will happen when we leave.
But then again, if Iran and Iraq start using the Euro as their money standard, where does that leave us?
Why must the left ape the right?
WHAT LEFT?
Are you talking about “the left” that just gave Alberto “the perjurer” Gonzalez even greater wiretap power?
Are you talking about “the left” that voted to continue the war in Iraq?
Are you talking about “the left” that has refused to think about Impeaching Cheney, Gonzalez, or Bush.
Or just the left that used their vote last November to elect Maria Cantwell, unapologetic war supporter?
Maybe you guys should just call yourselves corporate lemming lights instead of liberals
Brilliant piece, Goldy. Thank you for directing me there. I could smell and see what Mr. Duncan was writing about.
@17
Huh?
I think the piece, while evocative, was kinda unpleasant.
Just an older Seattleite with admittedly good writing skills making sure that everyone else feels his bad memories too.
Yeah the depression sucked, but the article reads like he blames the PPM for his poverty. Reads like a person who simply can’t put his own pain into perspective, even 70 years later.
re: the other piece they’re talking about here, reads to me like the ‘traditional dems’ taking a small issue and jumping on it to try to burn Darcy. EVEN if it was wrong to do it, the emphasis on it seems a bit… eh. The only thing the righties and the Old Democrats agree on is that they don’t want Burner to win the election.
@25
Jesus Christ! What further proof do we want that Rather is totally fucking delusional? And does this correlate with Moron Marvin’s American Dream????
@20 “Forced to go hungry and live in flophouses and work dirty minimum wage jobs because your parents were AWOL when you were a kid? Or at/after the age of 18 you didn’t have any employable job skills?”
Try “no jobs” jerk.
@20 Have you ever seen a college town with enough jobs to support everyone who has to work his way through school?
@21 Yes.
@24 “The entire Carter presidency was a disaster, especially the end.”
Really? Carter inherited stagflation from Ford. He had a number of foreign policy successes, most notably the Camp David Accords that led to permanent peace between Egypt and Israel. While Carter is most often remembered for the Iran hostage crisis, let’s not forget that Saint Ronnie secretly paid ransom by trading weapons for the hostages. I wonder how well that would have sit with voters if they had known at the time.
@25 “At the end of Reagan term America was at the height of its glory. America was at it best.”
At the end of Carter’s term unemployment was 7.2%. A year into Reagan’s term it was 8.6%, and a year later it was 10.4%. At the end of Reagan’s term unemployment was 5.3%. At the end of Clinton’s term it was 3.9%.
@25 Why don’t you rephrase that to say “for much of Reagan’s term America was in its worst shape since the Depression.”
@26 Why don’t you do some research to see if you can prove those numbers wrong. Nobody gives a fuck what your opinion of Carville is; come up with some FACTS, asshole. Put up or shut up.
@35 Mike, the problem ain’t us, it’s the pols and party.
@37 Don’t worry about #17 — it doesn’t affect YOU.
@38 So you would just sweep the Great Depression under the carpet and pretend it never happened?
#41 Roger Rabbit says:
Had I known you were in college I would have laughed. It’s great you went to college, but damn, life is hard living on a shoestring budget in college. You’re not the first, and won’t be the last. How many other poor unfortunate students eat top ramen or mac & cheese or peanut better and jelly sandwiches??
#46 Roger Rabbit says:
I don’t have to shut up. Freedom of speech.
I guess your refusal to use facts from an unbiased source proves my point. Thanks for making it so easy.
Roger Rabbit says:
But we all know Clinton was a publican. YLB is the one that pointed it out in the above open thread
#19 Clinton was a REPUBLICAN president
#9 Roger Rabbit says:
I was wrong, there is no reason Roger should use unbiased sources. Facts are unimportant when preaching to the choir.
Bush is a liar – Amen
publicans suck- Amen
Democrats are saviors- Amen
#41 Roger Rabbit says:
In college during the early 60’s, wow, you fit the stereotype of liberal bloggers. White angry middle age male. No wonder you took such offense at my post about the white male faces at the yearlykos.
RE 53: Facts ARE fACTS. They are either accurate or they are not. You impeach the source of the fact and not the fact itself.
Facts are not partisan. They are what they are.
I don’t have to shut up. Freedom of speech.
Yeah! Precious thing that first ammendment. You (Stamn) have a right to have diarrhea of the mouth.
But opinions are like assholes – everyone’s got one.
Bush is a liar – Fact
publicans suck- Fact
Democrats are saviors- Well is there any other party around to take the hand off from corruption and utter failure?
But we all know Clinton was a publican. YLB is the one that pointed it out in the above open thread
#19 Clinton was a REPUBLICAN president
But a nominal Democrat.
@RR
of course not.
But his bad memories of being poor have nothing do do with the market per se’.
Its like me going to Gasworks park and saying that its not a good seattle landmark because I used to get beat up there. Even if I describe the assaults in amazing detail, it doesn’t reduce the positive value of the park.
Yeah the depression was awful. Yeah it was unfortunate that the guy was in poverty. No that doesn’t make the PPM any less special… And if you actually read the article, instead of responding to it emotionally, thats what he’s saying. Hell if he weren’t less miserable, he’d be saying “I remember when we were poor, we were able to actually afford fresh food at the market, and the people at the diner sometimes helped us out by giving us free pastries so we could eat.”
No wonder you took such offense at my post about the white male faces at the yearlykos.
You mean you don’t approve of white male faces at yearlykos? How racist of you Stamn.
Why don’t you write the organizers and demand they meet a quota with your stamp of approval?
Don Duncan’s article does bring back memories. I also used to go to the market with my mother on Saturdays. This was in the early to middle 50’s. We would ride the bus from Burien and she would tell me about growing up in White Center during the depression and taking the trolly car from the the city limits. My memories of the market are better than Mr. Duncan’s, but buying food on a limited budget was still the reason for going. There was a Hooverville down south of Atlantic around the switch yards. My father spent a summer there before WWII started. The “good old days” were not good just old.