So if Dino Rossi refuses to talk about issues, or even post an issues page on his website, I suppose we’re just going to have to talk about issues for him.
So here’s the first one: safe and legal abortion. He opposes it. And would vote against reproductive rights, if elected to the U.S. Senate.
How do I know? He told me. I ran into him at a bar some months back and asked him, and he said “Goldy, I oppose a woman’s right to choose.” End of conversation.
And if Rossi wants to deny our conversation, or my representation of his opposition to reproductive rights, he’s free to go public and set the record straight. But he won’t. Because he opposes safe and legal abortion. So there.
what does kagan support?
And the irony is that the righty blogosphere is calling Rossi a ‘bright spot’.
BWA-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Unlikely. Goldy will stand firm however because Rossi won’t stoop to dignify Goldy’s bullshit.
Kinda like Will Folks’s smear of Nikki Haley in SC.
And…I continue to be disturbed by reports that Goldy has sex with livestock. Have you stopped yet, Goldy?
Perhaps this is what Rossi is against.
http://giovanniworld.files.wor.....onside.jpg
or this
http://exemployee.files.wordpr.....baby05.jpg
How you sick fucks can support the murdering of children simply because they are in inconvenience is beyond me.
just another sign of progressive moral ambiguity
@3 Whats the bullshit? Is it too much to ask a person running for Senate to be clear about what they believe on an issue like this?
This isn’t an insult or some off the wall rumor.
Goldy–
Have you ever knocked up a woman who subsequently got an abortion?
I haven’t, thank God.
This is another Atheist bellweather issue. The Supreme Court has made a decision. Ironically, Roe is now anti-abortion.
My feelings are that using abortion as birth control is an abomination. Society encouraging it (and yes, there are plenty of cases documented where Planned Parenthood encouraged it)is just plain wrong.
No wonder kids today have so many issues…growing up in a Society that does not even value the sanctity of innocent life.
Seems like you are trying real hard to say Rossi hates women. The rugmunchers won’t vote for him anyway. You know, the hairy armpit crowd that demands abortion be available on demand.
Goldy,
You have a daughter. Presumably at the point at which you and your wife found out a small miracle was on the way it was one of the pivotal moments of your life.
This moment didn’t occur in the third trimester. It didn’t occur when your daughter was ‘viable.’
To pretend a child in the womb is not a life is the sick rationalization of a truly disturbed individual.
Dino Rossi thinks he knows better than a woman and her doctor.
He ran on this in 2008 and it’s worth reminding people: http://blip.tv/file/1402726
Re 8
Wrong. Moral people believe that where life might exist destroying it is unconscionable.
If a building collapses do we fail to search for survivors because the chances are everyone died? Of course not.
If a pregnancy is wanted no expectant parents in the history of the world referred to the life as our ‘zygote.’ Universally it is ‘my baby.’
The hypocrisy in attempting to defend the indefensible on the left is truly stunning. What kind of twisted logic goes into this kind of reasoning. Oh, yes. Just look up the silly stupidity of Roe and there it is.
Women ALREADY have “choice”. they have the choice to 1) have sex, and 2) to have sex with contraception.
There are lots of “choices” when it comes to birth control.
With the various types of contraception out there, it in inexcusable to rely upon abortion as a means of birth control.
Choice indeed.
Since Goldy never has sex, he needn’t worry about such issues.
Actually, you’ve made a convert.
I think the right to choose does trump life. So when do we start murdering inconvenient people? My neighbor refuses to mow his lawn and it’s dropping my property value. Can I kill him? Another neighbor has a tree that’s grown into my view. This is inconvenient. Can I kill him?
See, this is the logical end of abortion. The right of the mother to choose ends where Chongo points it out. She can and has every right to abstain from sex or practice birth control. Once the possibility of a life exists in her womb, the right of that life trumps her convenience.
@3
That wasn’t Goldy with the livestock, it was Rossi!
“To pretend a child in the womb is not a life is the sick rationalization of a truly disturbed individual.”
Pudge’s vision is to have some kind of huge government department responsible for investigating the millions of miscarriages and abortions that occur in our nation each year. For instance, if some woman had a miscarriage and she had an unhealthy lifestyle, these Pussy Police would on top of it and she could be arrested on a charge of manslaughter. Of course, any woman even seeking an abortion will have committed a crime. Any woman who actually has an abortion could be in really deep shit. An eye for an eye, you know, Death penalty time!
Is that your plan too? I only ask because I’ve long assumed that the right doesn’t want to lose this issue and so hasn’t and never really will get serious about ending abortion. They just want the easily excitable and dumb to get seriously freaked about it and vote for them. Hey, it seems to work, so what can I say? Heck of a plan, wingnuts! So what if a few of those whose buttons you’ve pushed go off the deep and and off a doctor? That’s a small price to be paid for the rewards and freedoms that come to us all with Republican success at the polls, huh?
@21
I was raised to believe you should never kill something unless you were planing on eating it.
Re 14
Continue to bring up irrelevancies if it makes you feel better.
As for the second paragraph, it you subsitute ‘the right and the left’ for the right, your are correct.
Abortion plays a very tiny role in the legislative career of any congressperson. It plays a huge role in elections. It’s an easy one liner that avoids complicated legislative issues like deficits or the environment or anything else that requires thought.
@13 Geez, livestock again? heh- Those wingnuts!
Oops, #15 should be directed at #12, not 21.
Re 9
“Destroying where life might exist is unconscionable.”
And yet, I’m sure that you have killed a fly in your life. Are you a vegetarian too? Because I’ll eat my computer if all of the people on this page defending pro-life are. You value a cluster of cells (if abortion is done in early pregnancy) that can be smaller than the period at the end of my sentence more than you value the quality of life it has when it becomes a sentient being. Some people aren’t ready, emotionally, financially, physically, to have a baby when it is conceived. And some people just don’t have the mentality of loving selflessness that it takes to be a mother or father. I don’t believe that child should have to suffer because the parents couldn’t procure an abortion. It’s all about quality of life.
@14
Steve,
Based on that logic, then lets just do away with the criminal court system and prisons when it comes to murderers….after all, they cost money.
OFF TOPIC: I just picked up my tickets for the Rush concert in August. Way stoked! woohoo!
“irrelevancies”
In other words, you’d want abortion outlawed but you refuse to share with us your own vision of what you’d do about it. Why is that? You say that abortion is “murdering inconvenient people”. Should we let a woman involved in a homicide off scott-free? Do you mean that an irresponsible woman living an unhealthy lifestyle that results in the death of a person shouldn’t at least be charged with involutary manslaughter? Where can we find the courage of your convictions, Lost?
Re 19
Comparing sentient life to the cow which contributed last nights T-bone isn’t really all that logical. I love my dogs. I get a great deal of enjoyment emotionally and physically (from walking and playing with them, Steve, in case you’re going somewhere else) from them. But they aren’t sentient. They are dogs.
Comparing a fly or a cow to a human baby is just ridiculous. Good thing, I’d hate to see you suffer from silicon poisoning from the computer!
And I agree. Children deserve loving parents who can support them. This is why adoption agencies are constantly looking to match a child with such parents. A choice was made to risk pregnancy. Carrying the consequences of that choice for 9 months until an adoption can be finalized is a small price to pay. Much smaller at any rate than a lifetime of guilt for an ill considered murder.
@19
I think bums have a pretty shitty quality of life. Can we kill them? Would we be doing them a favor?
Can we make a list of people who we think have a shitty quality of life and go out and kill them?
– bums, drug addicts, the depressed, etc…
who else can we add?
trolls @everywhere,
The issue here is not abortion, it’s Dino Rossi’s refusal to publicly admit his position on abortion, because he knows it would lose him many more votes than it would win him.
How many times do you want to have the same conversation?
We’ve done this before. I don’t contemplate violence against the unfortunate women faced with this choice or the provider of abortions. The one is adding to an already emotionally distressing time, the other illegal and immoral.
Roe is, for better or worse, settled law. I can do nothing about this but vote for congressional candidates who disagree with it. The chances this will yield any returns in my lifetime are negligible, but I won’t go outside the law to protest those who have broken a moral law.
Re 2
Amazing journalistic scoop!
Goldy, you’ve found a politician who parses his public statements for what he thinks the public wants to hear! This new species must be classified and studied before it goes extinct!
@20 I like this latest screen name. Does it tie into some pop culture thing I missed out on(again)? The years do that to me. I seem to pay less attention. It was just this last week that I exclaimed out loud to Ms. Wingnut while watching TV, “Well, I’ll be a SOB! There really is a Dr. Dre!”.
@23
See #15
@24
Notice that not even the trolls are saying that Rossi can win this thing?
This strategy could work brilliantly.
Observe the stridency with which the angry ‘bagger rushes to the defense of Blastocyst Americans®. It won’t matter if Dino ignores this for the next four months. We can count on The Legion of Vagina Judges™ to respond on their hero’s behalf. And in doing so they place Dino squarely in the revered company of Westboro Baptist and Scott Roeder. Can’t imagine that improving Dino’s already slim chances.
Hey Goldy,
next time do some fucking research before your next hit piece.
http://www.spokesmanreview.com......asp?ID=65
There is plenty of documented info out there regarding Rossi’s stance on abortion.
pathetic.
at 22. do you know what sentient means? it means able to perceive or feel things. clearly a dog can feel and perceive things. so obviously it would be horrible to hurt it. i am also not too happy with the treatment of livestock. they are also sentient, so it is not ridiculous to use that comparison. the fly comparison is relevant in that flies have about as much sentience as a zygote in its first month.
at 23, yes, bums do have pretty shitty lives. so if we can help them by giving food and shelter, we should. in the case of unborn, unfeeling cells, sometimes the best way to help them, as well as the parents, is to terminate the life before it can become that shitty. which is the case in situations where there is no way to afford a baby, especially prevalent in these economic times.
Re 29
Don’t have to, the polls are doing that for us.
@27
its a reference to this…..:)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D.....TV_series)
New Tom Sawyer @20
I saw them Way Back In The Day at the Tacoma Dome, the Signals tour. I’m an old, old, man…
I hear Rush still puts on a great show.
@32
So those dead children in post #4 were just a bunch of clumps of unfeeling cells?
hmm…..they sure looked like children to me.
Re 32
If you would put a fly or a cow at the level of a human being for purposes of ethics you would be unable to act.
Every time you wash your hands you kill bacteria. Murderer.
Every time you go hiking insects die en masse underfoot. Thug. Brute.
Lines have to be drawn somewhere. I would not willingly inflict pain on any living thing, but I’ll really enjoy the pasta en brodo with sausage tonight.
@36 and 37I am not talking about later term abortion, which i agree is a completely different issue. I’m talking about very early abortion.
@35
This will be my first time. Included in this tour is the playing of the entire Moving Pictures album from start to finish(along with a bunch of other stuff obviously).
Should be epic.
@38
so where do you draw the line then? At what point do we say its OK to kill the child?
“How many times do you want to have the same conversation?”
I dunno, Lost. How many times is the right going to whine about abortion without ever once ackowledging that they don’t have the balls to execute a woman for murdering a blastocyst? I’m going to keep going there until you and the rest of the right understand the folly of your position, get past your hypocricy, and quit talking about abortion as murder. Or to put it another way, we’ll quit having this conversation when you finally put a sock in it.
@32
In these economic times especially, it would be cheaper to shoot a bum(cost of a .45 round is pretty cheap) rather than spending money on feeding and sheltering them.
same logic, right?
@4, 36
Not according to Rossi’s website. Goldy’s putting words in his mouth, there’s zip about abortion on his website and he refused to answer questions about it last time around.
You might want to consider backing a candidate that’s actually willing to come out and say he’s against abortion.
Steve,
You do realize that if a pregnant woman is murdered – even if she is in early pregnancy – that the killer is charged with the murder of the “blastocyst”(as you refer to it).
Why is that?
@34 Wiki, “his teenage sidekick Chongo, who speaks only in a series of monkey-like chatters and birdcalls”
I missed that one entirely! I was about 17 at the time.
@43
my point is that the info is out there, and I am sure that as the election goes on, his position will be made apparent – AGAIN.
With that said, I have no idea who I am going to vote for – I am not a Rossi supporter per se. I may or may not vote for him – I dunno yet.
I just enjoy poking goldy in the eye on his hit pieces. :P
@43
Continued…
I mean, why does he think he needs to hide his point of view?
I was slightly off in my last post, hit submit on accident and the edit function wasn’t working.
At 32
Is this a freudian slip?
“in the case of unborn, unfeeling cells, sometimes the best way to help them, as well as the parents, is to terminate the life…
I note you use the term life. Interesting.
@45
Danger Island was one of the first staring rolls for …………….Jan Michael Vincent!
The Banana Splits ruled!
@45
Yo Steve: YOUR OLD! (just fucking with ya)
@45
check this out…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-ywc503A_Y
or this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ql7dIIItdo
Oh, I’m not saying that abortion isn’t murder, Max. Assuming that it is, though, I’m suggesting that the miscarriage death of a blastocyst due to the irresponsibly unhealthy lifestyle choices of the mother would amount to at least involuntary manslaughter. A woman who pays for an abortion would be a woman paying to have a person murdered. I can’t help but wonder why the anger on the right is solely directed at the hitman and not at the woman who hired him? There’d have never have been a murder without the woman instigating it. Of course, if doctors are kidnapping our women to abort their blastocysts, that’s altogether another thing. I haven’t heard of that happening though. And for the small government minded who also consider abortion to be murder, what branch of government, local, state or federal, is going to grow in order to investigate and prosecute all these cases? The statistics I found indicate 600,000 miscarriages a year. Some percentage of those no doubt involve manslaughter. We can’t just brush that aside. How do we sort that out? It strikes me as monumental and requiring a big government solution at some level. And that’s something nobody ever seems to talk about.
Then why isn’t his stance on his Senate campaign website?
For the same reason the word “Republican” wasn’t on his Governor campaign website.
For the same reason he registers “Prefers GOP Party”.
He’s a damned coward trying to hide who he really is so he can fool people into voting for him.
@ 48
not Freudian. intentional. the cells are living. together they create a living organism. however, that organism cannot feel, think, percieve, or know that it is being terminated before a certain point. and i believe that until that point, abortion is fine. which goes back to 37, in that you are not causing the organism pain, and therefore are not a thug murderer or brute. though i appreciate the drama you injected into your post, it really works well. :) (no sarcasm, i actually thought it was well done)
Back when kids shows were actually cool…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related
“YOUR OLD!”
Geez, first my dear Ms. Wingnut and now you, Max? Sigh! Is there no end to my grief? She didn’t want me to get a young cat because she figures I’ll die any day now and she doesn’t want to be saddled with my cat for the next ten or more years. Oh well, at least I saw Hendrix four or five times. I’ve still got that going for me.
54
No offense to someone who seems to deeply believe, but…
I’d hate to have the responsibility for determining at what point this life becomes sentient, myself. What if you’re wrong about the precise point at which this occurs?
This is why I default to the assumption that in the absence of proof when the fetus becomes a baby, the default position must be for the baby.
I don’t think cute fluffy female bunnies should be allowed to unfuck themselves. Think of what would happen to the rabbit population! On the other hand, we should pass a law requiring Republicans to unfuck themselves. They’re fucked up!
Well, I’ll have to leave the rest of this to you folks. I’ve pasta to cook, and after that drywall taping in the new addition to attend to.
Have fun.
@56
just remember: the older the bull, the stiffer the horns..
@23 “Can we make a list of people who we think have a shitty quality of life and go out and kill them?
– bums, drug addicts, the depressed, etc…
who else can we add?”
You left off liberals?? That would have been pretty funny. Sorry, too late for an edit.
@60 Odd, Ms. Wingnut never mentions that. Hmm.
@61
well it crossed my mind, but figured it was stating the obvious. :P
besides, there are a couple of the tender-types here who would take it seriously and fear for their lives….and they know who they are.
@62
I cant help you there brotha…..maybe you need to remind her.
Rossi’s an Italian Catholic and he takes his marching orders from that Nazi Pope Ratzenburger.
I don’t trust him — or the gold standard.
Actually, Ms. Wingnut is a very dear gal. She’s familiar with my conservative streak and so she puts up with me. Well, most of the time.
quote from lost in a gulf of oil:
Protozoa are ‘life’ as well. We’re talking about sentient human life that can live outside the womb — like chickens.
I bet that Pope Nazi guy is involved in this radical Islamic Mexican Catholic Commie-Fascist movement the wingnuts are talking about this week.
@57 “I’d hate to have the responsibility for determining at what point this life becomes sentient, myself. What if you’re wrong about the precise point at which this occurs?”
What, you’re afraid of being wrong? Then you should not be:
1) a banker whose decisions could bring down the economy;
2) a military commander whose decisions could get soldiers or innocent civilians killed;
3) a surgeon, whose slip of the knife could kill the patient;
4) an airline pilot, whose error could kill a planeload of passengers;
5) a car driver, whose mistake could kill his passengers and other innocent people on the road;
6) a home remodeler, whose mistake could cost a customer money he canno afford;
and so on.
It’s an imperfect world, dude. We all make mistakes, and all mistakes have consequences, not only for ourselves but often for others. That’s what having good judgment is considered important.
What you’ve done here, of course, is opt for the intelletual copout. Trying to solve this dilemma is just too much work, or beyond your mental ability, so you won’t even try. I don’t know the answer to that question, either, but I was a judge who had to make decisions even when I couldn’t know whether my perception of the facts was right or wrong, which was all of the time. The entire legal system is nothing but finger-crossing guesswork, which is why most people would rather split the difference and settle out of court rather than take their chances with a jury.
I don’t know when a cell mass becomes a sentient human being, either, but I feel pretty damned certain that a fertilized egg is not a sentient human being. I’m equally certain that a fetus, at the moment before birth, is. So, where on the gestation continuum does the transition from insentient cells to sentient human life occur? If you have any common sense, as I do, then you surely realize it’s a gradual transition rather than a bright-line demarcation, and any answer that anyone comes up with will have an element of arbitrariness to it.
You have chosen the lazy conservative answer which requires no thinking and no difficult choices. SCOTUS couldn’t answer the question either, and concluded nobody could, but put somewhat more effort into the problem than you ever have. That’s because the law is called upon to come up with an answer, even where there is none, and SCOTUS is the law’s final word. So they have a responsibility to make a decision in the case. Whereupon SCOTUS divided pregnancy into three arbitrary “trimesters” and crafted a set of rules for each. This, at least, is a stab at intellectual effort of the sort you are utterly unwilling/incapable of undertaking. They, at least, earn points for effort, whereas you are nothing but a lazy oaf. My advice to you is never attempt anything that requires mental effort or taking risks, because you might cause your head to explode.
“We’re talking about sentient human life that can live outside the womb — like chickens”
Huh? We can’t use blastocysts as barter for health care? That sucks, headless.
@65 The gold standard is utterly untrustworthy. Most conservatives want to put us back on the gold standard. Connect the dots. Why would anyone in their right mind vote for these people?
Hey retards…if you have a penis you shut the hell up about abortion. Stop telling women what they must or must not do. It’s asshole men like this that have spent thousands of years telling women if they can go to school, who they’ll marry, when they can have sex, and if they can have children, and if they can have a divorce. Look, unless YOU’RE pregnant, this is an entirely hypothetical philosophical argument. Shut up. Only women should vote on this since they’re the ONLY ones carrying the baby (or cell clump until x days).
It’s easy to wax philosophically about how this is good or bad, and obvious one way or the other unless YOU have to deal with it. It’s ALWAYS so easy to say you should NEVER be able to have an abortion under ANY circumstance when YOU can’t get pregnant. Just like it’s easy to say you can’t have gay marriage if you’re not gay. If something doesn’t impact you, it’s easy to pronounce judgment and it seems SO simple. Of course it is, you’re just blowing smoke out your ass.
Only a tiny radical Tea Party like lunatic fringe things abortion should NEVER be legal under any circumstance (always around 20% in polling). The VAST majority of the public thinks SOME abortion should be up to the woman, and a similar small minority (20%) that it should ALWAYS be legal in all circumstances. So opposing ALL abortion puts you in the fringe category.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx
Rabbbit,
You were an attorney, and by your statements a judge. Surely you do know the difference between when a decision must be made and when that decision must be deferred until sufficient information is obtained.
Roe is among the worst decided cases in Supreme Court history for precisely this reason. An activist court decided on arbitrary grounds without legal grounds when murder was legal, and when not.
They knew that they didn’t know. Thus the tortured reasoning of trimesters. Instead of having the courage to say that in this case the presumption rests with protecting life, they chose to politicize the Court.
I make and made decisions that affect me and my family every day. Sometimes I fail, but I try to make them on the basis of intellectual and moral courage the court failed to practice in Roe.
For all the people talking about a woman’s choice being to abstain or use birth control – hopefully they use these choices with you.
#74 Remember, the SAME people who oppose all abortion are also the SAME religious fringe that opposes making contraception available or teaching sex eduction on how to use it. In their crazy magical world, teenagers only HAVE sex because liberals teach about it. You know, like how deer, rabbits, cows, dogs, and horses only have sex because government run programs teach them about it. (sigh). Anti-reality, anti-science lunatics drive me nuts. All animals have sex whether you “teach” about it or not. I’d prefer we teach how to do it SAFELY since it will happen ANYWAY. Common god damn sense it seems.
I know it sucks when reality clashes with these folks magical world view, but they should buck up and face reality and use common sense. The giant invisible magical head in the sky won’t burn you for telling a 14 year old how to use a condom.
“the courage to say that in this case the presumption rests with protecting life”
Is that like your not having the courage to call women murderers and to voice your desire to imprison or execute them when they’re found guilty of abortion?
Re 72
I’ve never killed someone in a drunken stupor. Oddly, I feel perfectly okay with our drunken driving laws (except to say they should be more strict.)
I’ve never kidnapped and hurt a child. Yet I have no problem in condemning the behavior and supporting life sentences for those who do.
There are many, many more laws I’ve not broken than those I have. This doesn’t mean I don’t have a voice in a democracy in those laws.
The law is all about pre-judging and assigning blame to acts we may or may not have engage in. The simple fact that a woman becomes pregnant does not mean only a woman gets to decide if organized infanticide should be US policy.
Re 74
For all those supporting a ‘right to choose’ over a childs’ life-
I worry about the society in which life is less precious than the convenience of a mother.
#78 You think abortions are about convenience? Spoken like a man, someone who can’t ever face this choice and puffs out your chest about how bold YOU are for supporting a position that you’re never have to face. What a joke.
#77 You missed the entire point. Those other laws are laws you CAN break…but have personally CHOSEN not to….that’s MY POINT. You CAN’T have an abortion if you’re a man. It’s not a moral choice you made like not driving drunk. You haven’t avoided having an abortion because of the strength of your character, it’s because you will NEVER face that choice. You can CHOOSE to drive drunk or abuse a child, or speed…about can’t CHOOSE to have an abortion. This law will NEVER apply to you.
Abortions, like divorce, should legal but rare.
And it’s a moot choice. You’re in the fringe of society. The VAST majority, for 30+ years, have supported SOME level of abortion choice (whether it’s up to 2 weeks, 2 months, etc). If you support NO choice at all (for something don’t have to deal with anyway), YOU’RE in the far flung fringe of public opinion, and always have been.
“I’ve never kidnapped and hurt a child. Yet I have no problem in condemning the behavior and supporting life sentences for those who do.”
Then out with it. Tell us that women should be punished appropriate to the crime committed – murder. Tell us at long last that you support the death penalty or life imprisonment for any woman found guilty of having an abortion.
Re 75
If you want to teach my children about the mechanics of procreation, the wonder of our bodies I’m on board with that.
If you want to teach my sons to regard sex without the sacred wonder it is my right to instill in them we have a problem. If you want to teach my daughter to be promiscuous with all the emotional and physical risks that entails, I can’t support that.
Teach biology and leave the teachings of values to the parents, thanks.
I’m still trying to figure out why every woman in America should have to live by theological dictates of one group of Americans.
Maybe I should show up at a Rossi event and ask him?
Alki,
No, you’re missing the point.
If there is a possibility of life in the womb, the choice of the woman is balanced against the right to life. You would say that her convenience or desires outweigh life. Until and unless you can prove that life isn’t there, you or I or any woman have no right to end it. But be careful, with all the political and scientific effort to do so they couldn’t in Roe, and it can’t be done now.
“If you want to … we have a problem. If you want to … I can’t support that.”
And yet you want to tell a stranger what she can or can’t do with her own body.
#81 That’s WHY you’re in the lunatic fringe. You’re not reality based. NO school “teaches your daughter to be promiscuous”. If that’s what you feel sex ed is, so be it, but you’re crazy, you’re anti-reality and just nuts. I had sex education in school. It was a little odd, exciting, boring and gross all at the same time. It didn’t make me ANY more or less horny.
No one, no school, can EVER prevent YOU from teaching your kids your values. Whether that’s “good” values like don’t cheat, steal or hit people, or Alabama KKK family “values” like why blacks are inferior, why Jews are controlling the world, and why god hates fags. Every family, including yours, has their own idea of “values”. 90% of them are the same and common sense, some of you out there are scary and teach bizarre “values”.
It’s OK for the school to teach your kids about the penis and the vagina and how they work…how they lead to pregnancy, and how birth control works. Now if YOU want to add to that, and tell your kids to NEVER have sex until marriage…that’s up to YOU. Feel free! Go for it! I’m ALL for your right to do that! But for GODS sake, tell your kids how birth control works whether or NOT they’re planning on using it any time soon. COMMON SENSE.
Little reality check. In every town, we all know this for a fact, I sure do…the biggest whores in town are generally the kids of the most pious, the preachers and such. The son of the local Mormon leader (are they bishops?) where I grew up was the biggest whore in town. So be careful about being TOO repressive. Moderation is always the key.
My deep Christian faith tells me that ensoulment happens with a baby’s first breath. What happens to the little bugger before that matters not to God nor me.
heh- Just kidding. It’s common knowledge that ensoulment happens at the instant of conception. It’s just a shame that millions of souls get flushed down the toilet due to miscarriages. And they didn’t even get to be baptised! To hell with them I reckon. I tell you, my God is a really cruel bastard.
The issue is not whether or not abortion is moral or ethical or wise, the issue is: should the state use its authority of law to criminalize abortion?
Should the state prosecute doctors and women who undertake an act of abortion and send them to prison?
Dino Rossi apparently answers Yes to both these questions. Apparently forgetting the dark days of coathangers and unqualified back-alley abortionists and dead young women.
Wow! Here in Seattle? That must have been too awesome!
#86 Reality is a bitch. If conception IS a person, then EVERY SINGLE GOD DAMNED miscarriage MUST be investigated as murder and charged as at LEAST manslaughter. If the mother was on a roller coast, had a little red wine, or just went jogging, MAYBE that caused it.
EVEN the most lunatic fringe on here won’t follow the convictions of their supposed beliefs (because they’re just full of shit). IF conception is a baby, then a miscarriage is NO different then your 12 year old child dying and MUST be investigated just the same. Yet, NO ONE has EVER called for ANYTHING like that. Despite all the passionate arguing, even the folks on the far right KNOW that a ‘6 week’ pregnancy that ends in a miscarriage is NOT the same thing as your 12 year old son dying…not legally speaking, emotionally yes, but legally NO ONE has ever treated them the same or ever will. So life is NOT just life. There is understanding of a difference between 6 weeks of cells and a person, whether you like it or not. That’s how we’ve dealt with this forever.
I suspect the real problem here is that wingnut men hate women and wingnut women hate themselves. And neither can admit to it.
@88 It truly was. For one concert they had a rotating stage in the arena. Vanilla Fudge opened that one. A concert following the release of Electric Ladyland was just too much. A smaller venue and no flashy act like the earlier concerts, just some very serious playing of the new songs like Voodoo Child and All Along the Watchtower.
“If conception IS a person, then EVERY SINGLE GOD DAMNED miscarriage MUST be investigated as murder and charged as at LEAST manslaughter.”
“IF conception is a baby, then a miscarriage is NO different then your 12 year old child dying and MUST be investigated just the same. Yet, NO ONE has EVER called for ANYTHING like that.”
My point exactly and Lost has no answers. And as a supposed libertarian, he certainly doesn’t want to discuss the government involvement in all of this. With that, his is just another angry and very empty whine about abortion.
91 – Intense. Electric Ladyland is one of my favorite records of all time.
Recently I’ve heard a remixed version of “Hear my Train a Comin'” making the rounds.
I was driving my kid from a ball game and it came on KPLU. Turned that sucker WAY UP!
My kid is such a Seattle home boy but generally doesn’t gravitate to the music I like. You know, that’s the “old man’s” thing. Nothing like a little Hendrix to alter a kid’s brain cells.
‘Put it all.. Put it all in my shoe..
“the dark days of coathangers and unqualified back-alley abortionists and dead young women”
Back then the rich got their abortions easy enough. They could afford to go to wherever it was legal.
@86
Baptism by toilet!
“I was driving my kid from a ball game and it came on KPLU. Turned that sucker WAY UP!”
I was just thinking the other day about songs that inspire me to crank up the car stereo. I mean to really crank it up – all the way to 11 on the dial. Cream’s Crossroads readily came to mind. Anything Hendrix. I’d guess that dates me.
lost: “This is why I default to the assumption that in the absence of proof when the fetus becomes a baby, the default position must be for the baby.”
My default position is that reasonable people differ on this difficult issue and I should not decide for someone else. I have been known to be wrong from time to time, after all. People in my family, who share the same faith, values, and lifestyle differ. The decision, therefore, from my humble perspective, should be that of the person most affected by the pregnancy–the woman.
Moreover, as a person of faith and as Steve suggests above, why has a miscarriage not been deemed a death throughout human history. The Bible references miscarriages in at least a half dozen passages, but never once is the miscarriage noted in anything other than a historical fact. There is no funeral, no gnashing of teeth, no reference to a “soul.” Explain please, those of you who differ.
By their actions the Forced Birth crowd proves they could give a flying fuck about what happens to the fetus after it is birthed from the wimb.
This is solely about male control over women and their bodies.
Liar. Rossi doesn’t go to gay bars. Besides, we love it when there are fewer democrats. Liberals should not reproduce and if at all possible they should kill themselves to save the planet.
98
The “pro-life” folks only advocate for the pre-born and those in persistent vegetative states. Those of us walking and talking? Ah, not so much. How about another war? Screw you, little boy, we won’t feed you. You are the product of a welfare mother.
@97:
Trust women.*
There is really nothing more to be said.
*Dr. George Tiller
Losty put up a really lousy fight here. The forced preg crowd has a position that is so intellectually incoherent that it is a wonder it doesn’t turn to dust the minute it is barfed out.
If conception is the starting point of sacred life, and terminating a pregnancy at any time is murder, then intellectual honesty demands that the perpetrator of the crime, the woman, be charged with murder.
If that is not the case, then the “crime” is something other than murder. Pretty fucking simple.
Similarly, in no other instance is a person forced to give up a part of their body to serve some perceived social good or to conform to somebody else’s bright red moral lines. Would Losty support laws forcing people to donate their kidneys?
It’s the woman’s choice. None other. End of story.
Losty: “I worry about the society in which life is less precious than the convenience of a mother.”
Me: I worry about a society in which half of its members are denied moral agency due to their status as child ovens.
LSIBlue
22. lostinaseaofblue
” But they aren’t sentient. They are dogs.”
Where in your Bible does it say this?
Where does your bible mention zygotes?
How can you know that a fertilized egg has thought?
I am that I am.
God and Lost in a sea of blue…
I am on God’s side in this one!
What is your biological basis for saying dogs are not sentient?
If a dog is not sentient, then a is a chimp?
How about an anencephalic baby? Is a human baby without a frontal cortex “alive?”
Since the zygote does not have a brain, exactly where is this sentient property??
I have a computer in fornt of me that has access to a complete human genome. This genome has the code for building a brain, is it OK with you if I erase that code?
SJ to “lost” .. Do you respect Buddhists and Jains?
There are ONLY TWO bases for arguing that a fertilized human egg, a zygote, is different from any other life form:
1. It has the potential to develop a human brain.
2. There is some supernatural event associated with human zygosis.
As for 1,
1/4 to 1/2 of the time a zygote is formed, it will spontaneously abort. To follow your reasoning, we should be spending a quadrillion dollars t save all those lives .. even though most of them would be malformed.
For that matter, we also know that each of us have millions of stem cells. These can be developed into unique individuals with modern science. Should we harvest these can clone them?
AS for 2 .. that is the soul. OF COURSE you have the right to believe that zygotes have a soul, but Buddhists and Jains believe that dogs also have souls. They are, therefore vegetarians. Do you think your right to eat meat should be curtailed because of samsara .. the concept that all life has souls? ?
I had a cat once I could swear was a sentient being. And she could be a real bitch as well.
@99 “Besides, we love it when there are fewer democrats.”
You must not have heard. Acorn registered 11,000,000 illegals to vote. You lose.
Briefly….
For those who welcome and endorse Helmet-Hair-Hamlet, Goldy’s point is that this man either lacks the testicular fortitude to righteously state he’ll support his own convictions, or merely pretends he’ll ultimately support yours. In any event, your the next group of (mentally) foreclosed suckers from whom he’ll profit.
It always surprises me when men get their panties in a bunch over a woman’s right to choose. If you really gave a shit about it you’d stop preaching and attempting to legislate to women and finally lead those of your gender who frequently fornicate and through their own negligence create unwanted pregnancies.
For the 37 years since Roe v Wade men have been bitching about the actions of women, but I have yet to see a single any anti-choice man hold another man accountable for his irresponsibility.
If you really are so vehemently opposed to abortion why don’t you just once make a very public example of the man who impregnated an under 21 year old female out of wedlock?
The answer is that you are cowardly undersexed or closeted pricks.
@105, 106
Thanks for that. great comments.
**************
@108
Yup!
***********
I’m left wondering that if abortion is murder how should we treat women who have had abortions? Let’s not kid our selves and think that making abortion illegal will stop it. Are we going to lock these women up for a decade? Are we going to look the other way and let them get away with murder? And if we let women who’ve had abortions get away with it w/o any form of rebuke what’s the point of having it be illegal?
It’s so comforting to believe that my cat has a soul and is waiting for me in heaven. I know that I’ll find her and that we’ll walk across the Rainbow Bridge together.
Now about the fish. Say, God @104, by any chance do you have any aquariums in heaven? Nothing too big, maybe 10 gallons or so?
@109 Michael on 06/10/2010 at 8:59 pm,
It has never been about the “right to life“, so let’s kill the Bitches.
Ever see a pro-lifer at a war protest?
Ever see a pro-lifer at an execution?
Hell, the Roman Catholic Bishops (all men in a church with a 2 generation problem of sexually abusing children) were more bent about the possibility of an abortion under the Affordable Care Act than the fact that thousands of their flock died annually for lack of affordable health care.
@72
screwy logic there. So if a man kills another man, then a woman should not be on the jury?
If there is anybody who has no business commenting on the abortion topic, its you polesmokers.
Leave the reproduction issues to the heterosexuals.
They hate the hitman but forget about the dame that hired him. Some PI these guys would be. These wingnuts need to watch some old Bogart movies and see how it’s done. “You’re taking the fall, shweetheart.”
heh- Dames
“Dames are shimple. I ain’t met one yet that didn’t undershtand a shlap in the face or a shlug from a .44.”
“Shorry I had to shlap ya around lasht night, shweetheart, but ya got hyshterical when I shaid, “no more”.”
Bogart character, Play it Again, Sam
@113
anybody can be a modern-day Bogey..
http://www.aeonity.com/ab/game.....hat-ho.php
“Leave the reproduction issues to the heterosexuals.”
So it’s not about innocent life, blood, blood, blood, and murder? Just “reproductive issues”. Thanks for letting us know.
@111
Damn straight it hasn’t! It’s about one groups ability to define and control another group.
It’s not that different from my side of the fence. The far right wants to be able to control women, young people, anyone that belongs any form of minority group. I want to control the far right by taking taking away their power.
@115, 116
Nice failed attempt at twisting my words.
A for effort.
D- for result.
typical progressive strategy.
What you fail to pick up on is that it was my intention to “make it an issue that only a certain group” could be invested in…as a response to alki’s post, and thus showing him how stupid his argument was.
the irony and intent swept by both of your heads.
Well done!
@114 Whoa, I’m a “SUPER PIMP!!!” Damn, I slapped that ho at 384 mph!!!
@116
I think you got your groups mixed up. I dont want to control anybody, however I think a child’s life does outweigh a mom’s decision to kill.
Its the progressives who want to control everyone. I dont want to think like you, and I dont want to be part of your “great collective”. Take you socialism and shove it where the sun dont shine.
I would just rather you left me and most of my money the fuck alone. I can take care of myself and my family, thank you very much.
@118
See Steve, I knew you still had it in ya! :P
@119 Uh oh, Chongo on 06/10/2010 at 9:37 pm
Does a person’s life outweigh a politicians decision to send soldiers to be killed and maimed in a war about lies?
Or does the sanctity of life somehow become less important once it reaches a certain age?
If a jobless diabetic cannot afford insulin does your thinking about the sanctity of life extend to your wallet to support paying for the insulin?
Or does the life of someone become less important once it reaches in to your wallet?
If a coal extraction company has a decade long history of violating laws to protect the life of its workers and its negligence leads to their deaths and the destruction of the lives of the workers’ families, does your thinking about the sanctity of human life lead you to become a vocal advocate for legal justice?
Or does the life of someone become less important once if it means you have to pay more for energy?
@117:
I quoted your words exactly as written.
You prove once again that conservatives don’t know what irony is.
@119: My, my. Getting a little touchy are we?
Mike @ 121
Coherent arguments are totally lost on mental midgets like the bigoted, name-calling coward @ 119.
Personally I’m in the “safe, legal, rare” camp. Now the last requires some explanation for the wingnuts who aren’t too bright and have short attention spans. “rare” means you do everything you can to prevent unwanted pregnancy from easy access to a variety of birth control methods to comprehensive and frank sex education. “rare” means you make choosing to have a child not a burden to the mother that will ruin her life. This of course requires social services such as subsidized day-care that the wingnut crowd are so against because some of it might go to brown people.
In effect I’d like to see us be a lot more like Europe where abortion is readily available but both the abortion rate and the teen pregnancy rate is very low compared to the US.
I’m really surprised we don’t see more of the anti-abortion crowd call for “pussy police”. As others have pointed out if you think abortion is murder then you should be OK with charging any woman who has had one with aggravated first degree murder. This also means any miscarriage should be investigated as a possible manslaughter. In the name of making sure no abortions or miscarriages get missed we will need government mandated and administered monthly pregnancy tests for every woman of childbearing age. This will also let us catch any woman who slips over the border to another country to murder her child.
Of course this would be incredibly intrusive and require “big government” on a far larger scale than the sort of things the wingnuts usually whine about. But then is any price too high to protect the potential life of Blastocyst Americans®?
I’m confused about a supposedly smarter and better educated electorate, or so progressives constantly tell us they are, that can’t follow a simple line of argument.
You don’t know at what point the fetus becomes a life. I don’t know. No-one knows. If they did Roe wouldn’t run to page after page of incoherent argument about it. More to the point, if they did the harridans at NARAL and NOW would have trumpeted it from every rooftop they could access. There simply is not scientific evidence one way or the other.
If this is the case, at no point is abortion morally permissable. This is true because at all points the abortion provider and the woman seeking an abortion are taking a chance that they are ending a human life. This would be unacceptable in any other legal context whatever, but utter the words ‘a womans right to choose’ and somehow it’s okay?
But you folks want to cloud a fairly straightforward moral issue with what you consider magic words. ‘The womans right to choose.’ This to you seems to trump good sense, morality and common humanity. An underage girl who couldn’t have a ingrowing toenail operated on without her parents permission and advice can murder a child without it. A baby which is wanted is called that from the day the parents find out the happy news, but somehow an unwanted one is a zygote? If a lunatic murders a pregnant woman he or she is charged with a double homicide, but if a confused and frightened girl does she is exercising her right to choose?
Come on, you can’t all be that illogical.
Steve and all the others,
Because I’m not interested in using hateful speech toward someone almost certainly at a low point in their life I’m a hypocrite? Okay, I’ll accept that.
A young woman facing the agonizing choice of whether to abort a child doesn’t need my judgement. She will, statistically, regret this choice much more often than not. She may suffer mental problems as a result of it. What she needs is a family and friend network to help her make decisions for her good and that of her unborn child, not my anger or accusations of murderess.
Where should the criminal law stand? I don’t know. The abortion provider bears a moral weight of guilt I wouldn’t wish on anyone. It is similar to that of any operator of a gas chamber at Buchenwald. It is the guilt of one who willfully ignores the evil they do. The woman is in all likelihood taught from early infancy that the child is not a life, nor a child, nor anything but a hindrance to her. The doctor knows better, or should. I suppose it would be similar to the relative guilt of a drug lord and a coke addicted teen. Both have culpability. Certainly the drug lord bears most of it.
If I could turn back time.
I feel for his poor mother, the worst thing that a mother can provide to society is a fool. Rossi has/had absolutely no contribution to society. He is a fool.
Wish she had at least considered an abortion.
Re 124 and 125
Did the pro-murder crowd run this talking point out in an email or something? It’s all you folks have to say, I suspect because you think yourself very sophisticated for using a vulgarity like ‘pussy’ in general conversation.
Yes, I know you and the rest of the progressives think that promiscuity and sexual immorality are goals to be desired in society. How about you teach your daughters and sons to treat sex without respect or value, and leave mine out of it?
Re 121
I’ll make this easy for you.
All of the people you mention made choices. A soldier volunteered for the armed services. A miner chose that line of work. Anyone can make choices about managing their own health, or could before Obamacare. (Thanks Dear Leader for deciding how I should spend my money!)
The child in the womb can’t make a choice.
10 @ Women ALREADY have “choice”. they have the choice to 1) have sex, and 2) to have sex with contraception.
There are lots of “choices” when it comes to birth control.
uh huh….and that little sperm came from….where?
@125
When one of the Dakotas tried to ban abortions a few years back the N.A. Tribes in the state said that abortions would be available to all on tribal lands. The ban, had it gone into effect, would have been useless.
********************
Go ahead and overturn Roe V. Wade. Ban abortion! You wont stop it. If you think you can stop a medical procedure that’s been around since at least the time of Cleopatra you’re a fool.
Abortion isn’t something you can stop. It is something that can be made safe, legal, and rare.
Someone needs to ask Dino just how far he’s willing to go to protect a blastocyst. It’s a relevant question.
Mike @121
Damn, that’s beautiful. A perfect rebuttal to those who claim to be “pro-life,” but who really could give a rat’s ass about humanity. Cynny comes to mind.
lost,
Answer my post at 97.
Proud,
My fault. The first half of my post at 126 was meant as an answer to your thought provoking one at 97, as well as a general response at what seems to me to be the point of the abortion debate through this thread.
126 – Utterly ridiculous.
The best words in this thread on this issue so far are these two:
Trust women…
Let them choose. Why is this so frightening to right wingers? If a woman makes a bad choice in your judgement, you don’t have to associate with her. There’s that freedom too in this country.
All of this is totally incoherent. Is there the semblance of an argument here? You’re assuming the law is logical but in many cases it isn’t – especially in the case of that double homicide. That’s apparent within the first week of law school as any practicing lawyer in these comment threads can verify.
And many doctors started providing safe abortions when they saw too many women maimed by back-alley providers and in desperate circumstances or being the victim of rape or incest. Your comparison of a doctor committed to performing a safe, legal procedure for a woman who needs it to a concentration camp gas chamber operator borders on the obscene.
Many women from all walks of life have this procedure done for a multitude of reasons. THE MOST INTERESTING TO ME is the case of pro life women who have an abortion and when they recover return to the clinic to try to block other women from making that choice. YES, those cases exist – more than a few.
http://mypage.direct.ca/w/writer/anti-tales.html
If the anti abortion crowd gets its way (which they won’t) women of lesser means will return to the back alleys to be maimed risking prosecution and prison while women of means will fly to other countries to have whatever they please. That’s the world the sanctimonious wish to live in!
I’m off to bed. Have a pleasant evening.
I have to give lost points for being on this thread. Puddy, Cynny, and the Marks don’t appear on a thread when the talk progresses beyond talking points. So, lost deserves some credit.
YLB, before I go to bed,
“Your comparison of a doctor committed to performing a safe, legal procedure for a woman who needs it to a concentration camp gas chamber operator borders on the obscene.” That is a fair point, at least in relative evils. For that comment I sincerely apologize.
“All of this is totally incoherent… You’re assuming the law is logical but in many cases it isn’t” But it should be. And saying that law isn’t logical is no excuse for failing to work to a point where it is both logical and coherent. Otherwise it’s arbitrary and therefore worthless.
Rape and incest make up a tiny fraction of all abortions performed, less than one percent by most studies. Most are driven by the personal convenience of the mother, by default.
I’m really needing to be awake early, so have a good night.
@126. lostinaseaofblue spews:
OK .. let me answer your questions?
The question is not whether anyone knows, the questions is how YOU define life, or to use your term “sentient” life.
Since sentient implies a nervous system, we certainly can say when that appears. If by sentient you mean when human (as opposed to canine to use your example) then again we can precisely say when the circuits in the brian have reached that stage.
The issue has nothing to do with science.
If YOU believe in a soul imparted along with zygosis then you are right. I would, however, suggest you re read your bible since AFIK, zygosis is not mentioned.
I agree. If you believe in that there is something called “life” that can not be defined by science, you are right.
OTOH, if you believe, as most of us do, that human life is the same thing as human ability to think, then science can pretty accurately answer your question. BTW .. an anencephalic baby (one reason for third trimestre abortions) can not think.
This is true because at all points the abortion provider and the woman seeking an abortion are taking a chance that they are ending a human life. This would be unacceptable in any other legal context whatever, but utter the words ‘a womans right to choose’ and somehow it’s okay?
No, that is what you are doing by insisting that the issue is the magic word “life”
Your really hurt your own case here. Like many others I do not support the nidea that children should be able to choose to have an abortion .. anymore than I think they should be able to choose .. on their own .. any other medical procedure.
BTW .. would you force your 12 yo daughter to bear a child created by rape?
I assume many parents do that. What is your point? They, rightly love their future child. Does that mean they should name it and then mourn it if the zygote does not implant or implants but spontaneous aborts ..as 1/3 to 1/2 do?
Hopefully, science can provide some relief … if the woman knows that the blastula is not yet a human, then the loss will be less great.
Yes.
You have a point here becaue the murderer is depriving the Mom and Dad of the chance to have that zygote grow.
By this reasoning, every possible zygote should be “saved.” Do you understand what that means? 200 years ago most women were continually pregnant .. every potential conception was supposed to occur. Of course the price of this was a huge incidence of maternal deaths.
By your reasoning, since we can no avert those deaths, every month the effort should be made to save that egg’s DNA!
So “Come on, you can’t–l be that illogical.”
As for your “I’m a hypocrite? Okay, I’ll accept that.” That is YOUR term, not mine. I for one have no problem with your religion any more tha n I would hae if you were a Jain and believed in the sanctity of all animal life.
I do not even have a problem with the Jain or you regarding me as immoral for not believing in your reality. Of course, the same tolerance would have to be given to some Islamic zealot who wants to circumcise his baby daughter or kill a Muslim woman for marrying a Christian man.
Are you that tolerant?
I like what you say here. I hope you read it back to yourself and ask how YOUR views might affect her or..any woman who miscarries.
BUT … look where you then go:
Odds are I will never be pregnant. After all, I am a middle-aged male. I don’t think I should get to decide if a 16 year-old girl in Loomis or Quincy, Washington should have to carry her zygote to term. Remarkable how you so-called libertarians can tell others what to do.
LISB
“Rape and incest make up a tiny fraction of all abortions performed, less than one percent by most studies. Most are driven by the personal convenience of the mother, by default.”
Does that mean you agree to murdering babies conceived by rape or incest? Hmmm ,,,,,,
How old would you let those babies be?
What about illegitimate children?
Or children with no apparent father (Jesus?).
Of course the definition of “rape” is more than a bit cultural too … is a woman in a harem subject t rape? Is a woman in a forced marriage raped? How about a poor woman who has boy children (as many do in poor countries) because boy children can be of value? Should those babies be killed (along with the girl babies) because they are being had for the wrong reasons?
BTW, exactly what is immoral about incest? If you set religion aside, incest is no worse than having a baby at an advanced age (as Palin did) without checking for Down’s.
While we are at it, in some places a huge number of babies are born to prostitutes are HIV positive. Should these babies be killed.?
You are on a slippery slope.
Would it not be more honest to just accept the reality that this is an issue where you have a religious belief that others do not share?
Let’s face it. Liberals simply want the right to kill anyone they deem “unfit”. Don’t want to ruin the moment…kill the kid. Grandma has grown too old to work and pay taxes…kill her. So and so is dyslexic…kill him. Wasn’t there a group of people way back when that practiced the same policies? Hmmm…let’s see. Oh yes, it was the NAZIS!
“Liberals simply want the right to kill anyone they deem “unfit”. Don’t want to ruin the moment…kill the kid. Grandma has grown too old to work and pay taxes…kill her. So and so is dyslexic…kill him.”
This ridiculous nonsense should be in the dictionary as the definition of hyperbole and strawman. Really? If anyone actually thinks that’s what the centrists (that are labelled liberals in the US) really think, they need their cognitive abilities checked, because they obviously failed reason and comprehension.
@132 “Someone needs to ask Dino just how far he’s willing to go to protect a blastocyst. It’s a relevant question.”
He’s no more likely to answer that question than Lost. The reason there is no answer is because their answer would damn them. We’d be hearing a faux-libertarians call for big government to intervene in women’s lives to monitor their bodies.
Lost @129, “Anyone can make choices about managing their own health”
Except women.
Lost @128, “I know you and the rest of the progressives think that promiscuity and sexual immorality are goals to be desired in society.”
Horseshit.
Lost @126 “If this is the case, at no point is abortion morally permissable.”
Enough already! What are you going to do about it? Until you lay it out for us just how you will monitor women’s bodies as well as the punishment you have in mind for women who commit murder, you only come off as someone lacking the courage of your convictions.
@128, “the pro-murder crowd”
Horseshit. You keep telling us that it’s murder and yet you refuse to devulge details as to your vision of body monitoring and the punishment you intend for women who participate in the murder of their child. Step to the plate and tell us how this is going to come down.
@129 “I suspect because you think yourself very sophisticated for using a vulgarity like ‘pussy’ in general conversation.”
Horseshit. “Pussy Police” is used to describe the folly of your calling abortion murder followed by your absolute refusal to devulge any detail of how your vision will play out. You answer none of these questions because those answers would reveal your hypocricy.
“Oh yes, it was the NAZIS!”
Nazis, huh? Figures. It’s always those damn Nazis.
@145
Godwin’s law proves true again.
@126, “The abortion provider bears a moral weight of guilt I wouldn’t wish on anyone. It is similar to that of any operator of a gas chamber at Buchenwald. It is the guilt of one who willfully ignores the evil they do. The woman is in all likelihood taught from early infancy that the child is not a life, nor a child, nor anything but a hindrance to her. The doctor knows better, or should.”
Your focus remains on the hitman (operator of a gas chamber at Buchenwald or abortion doctor) and not the person that hires him (Hitler or the criminal mother).
“The woman is in all likelihood taught from early infancy”
So desparate are you to avoid condemning the criminal mother, you now blame society. Society made her do it! Our murderess is to be held blameless! For decades I’ve heard the right claim that that’s what the left is guilty of doing, coddling the criminal while blaming society. How does that shoe fit?
I believe that you refuse to divulge any details of the outcome of your vision because it entails a massive growth in local, state and federal government in order to monitor the bodies of tens of millions of American women and to investigate and punish hundreds of thousands of those women for having or attempting to have abortions, or for the crime of living an unhealthy lifestyle resulting in a miscarriage. If there’s another possible outcome, you need to tell us about it. Until you do, you’re only blathering on and on and on about murder and your high morals while showing us that you haven’t the moral courage to be upfront with us as to where this faux-libertarian vision of yours will take us as a nation.
Why continue to argue a point when you, the closed minded, are still closed minded Proud Leftist? Puddy has stated almost all abortions are abhorrent except in the case of incest or the mother’s life is at stake. Puddy placed on this blog the words of the late George Tiller the baby killer and how he bragged over doing 9200 late term 3rd trimester abortions sucking out babies like those pictured in post #4.
Ask the clueless goober arschloch goatsee for HA database verification from his vaulted personal home copy. Go on Proud Leftist. Grow a pair and ask the clueless goober arschloch goatsee. Steve Steve Steve couldn’t grow a pair. Neither could checksez.
Your insanity is showing. Think meds, Puddy.
Every time we see some horrendous human crime against humanity it’s their upbringing… they were abused as a child… they grew up in poor circumstances… It’s the progressive libtardo “make an excuse” way!
Steve Steve Steve,
Crazy from birth. Moronic since his invention of Steve’s Stupid Solution!
“Puddy placed on this blog the words of the late George Tiller the baby killer and how he bragged over doing 9200 late term 3rd trimester abortions sucking out babies like those pictured in post #4.”
Meds or not, the vapidity is a constant with our Puddy.
You’re not contributing, Puddy. You’re just babbling like an incoherent fool again. Take it to another thread.
@150 Fucking idiot. If you can’t contribute to the conversation in a meaningful way then just get the fuck out of here. And take the infantile namecalling with you.
Why you think it’s clever of you to come up with a blog persona that’s about the dumbest fucktard on the planet beats the hell out of me, Puddy.
If all you can bring is some babbling dumbfuck persona, then I’ll have to seriously consider putting you on my ignore list. I really have no time for the deliberately stupid.
148 – A man would support his own bullshit err.. truth – as he sees it anyway.
You’re a diminished man so you fob it off on others by barking orders.
It’s worked wonderfully for you hasn’t it?
Yep junk-shot is suffering from a severe case of ODS.
Where ever there’s bad stuff going on, he blames it on “Odumba” then pulls some lame google search out of his ass.
Yeah, what a babbling fool.
Geez, Puddy, God’s creation has turned out so perfect that I live on a world and in a time and reality where there exists ’57 Chevy’s and beautiful, fuckable women. Truely, there is a God and I am blessed. That said, the earth is about 4.5 billion years old, the universe much older, and humanity’s time is but a micro-blip. And yet you come here with an Ivy-league education telling us that the earth is 4,000 years old, and then later revising that to 6,000. I’ve struggled with this. Here’s my present take on it. That first number? You were off your meds. The second? You’re on your meds but they’re just not cutting it. Am I getting close here?
The left needs better Democrats and Puddy needs better meds.
It’s the other way around. I was actually shocked to see that he now believes that earth is even younger..
He must be reading some really batshit insane young earth creationism..
Or he’s shirking his meds or his meds need adjustment.
clueless goober arschloch goatsee…
The world is 6000 years old. When Jesus comes in His Father’s glory you can ask Him when your visit to the Enternal Judgment seat comes up. As it says in the Bible, Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
clueless goober arschloch goatsee: “Butt butt Jesus, I didn’t think you were real”
Jesus: ” Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.”
clueless goober arschloch goatsee: “I didn’t believe in fables, fairy tales or the earth was 6000 years old”
Jesus: ” And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.”
See ya.
clueless goober arschloch goatsee…
Yep, so what’s your “education”? Grade skuul? Graduated first in dumb brickness?
Steve Steve Steve,
Not contributing? Pointing out libtardo stupidity? Identifying DUMMOCRAPTIC lunacy? Shining light on your daily heroes like Keith Odormann, Ed Sgt Shultz, George Steponallofus, Rachel I Hate the Constitution Madcow?
Heh. Not what you said here:
http://horsesass.org/?p=27520#comment-1003793
Just 5 or so days back.. Is the bubble memory in the shop?
I was mistaken then, YLB. Puddy had to have been on the meds before and now he’s off of them. Oh, wait, I see that @161 Puddy is stating that the earth is 6,000 years old again. Perhaps he got the prescription refilled. Still, whatever meds he’s getting his hands on just aren’t cutting it.
“The left needs better Democrats and Puddy needs better meds.”
Hmm, I may have presented the solutions to America’s problems in a single sentence with that one.
No the only question I’m going ask HIM is where is junk-shot and the klown going?
The prospect of spending eternity with those two morons is too painful.
Send me somewhere else please.
“Is the bubble memory in the shop”
It’s gotta be the meds. I can think of no other explanation that fits all that we’ve seen.
@148 Puddy … pornography your things???
Like you, I believe the default should always be to save life, but whose? The mom or the fetus? All you are doing with you dirty mouth here is discrediting those of us who really want to put life first!
What utter and evil porn you are spewing.
Tiller terminated lives of fetuses because either they mother’s life was at stake or because the baby itself was not viable.
As to the method, destroying the fetus in utero and then vacuuming out the now dead fetus is a lot safer for the mother than attempting to have her give birth.
Knowing that you never answer any hard question, I will post thewm anyway if only to press on the side of the porn filled pustule of your posting:
1. If your eife was in the third term with eclampsia, a malignant, life threatening disease of full term pregancy, would you and she sacrifice the baby or her? This is not just a hard choice for your wife, you also would need to choose!
2. If your son and his wife had a pregnancy and the early term fetus was diagnosed as sickle .. would you accept ending this pregnancy so they could allow some other child to be born?
Puddy, you have tried to say that I play God here, I do not play God but it seems to me that anyone who would easily take a stand on these two questions is confused about their relationship to the Deity!
Puddy and the 6000 year old Earth.
Why wait? God blogs here?
If oyu do not trust Ha God, then riddle me this .. where in the Roman Bible, you kow which one I mean, does Jesus say that the world is 6k yrs old?
Does he says you should accept Genesis as the literal Word? Where? If so, does that mean you accept the rest of the Torah? Literally?
Where in the Torah does it say that life begins when sperm and egg fuse? What does the Torah say about the right of one man to won another? Was the flood worldwide? If so what happened to all the slat water fish swimming in fresh water?
Oh and do you really believe your God is mean enough to punish all Mormons, Buddhists, Jews, just because they do not accept the Roman Bible?
Methinks I will stay with HA God .. he seems a lot more rational then the paranoid you describe as Jesus.
Since HA God does watch over HA, you may be lucky that He seems very tolerant.
The world would be a better place indeed.