So, is Washington a high tax state, as folks like Tim Eyman so often imply? Well it all depends on who you are.
The Ten States with the
Highest Taxes on the Poor
| Washington | 17.3% |
| Florida | 13.5% |
| Illinois | 13.0% |
| Arizona | 12.5% |
| Texas | 12.2% |
| Hawaii | 12.2% |
| Arkansas | 12.1% |
| Ohio | 12.0% |
| Connecticut | 12.0% |
| Indiana | 11.9% |
The table above represents the effective rate of state and local taxes on the bottom twenty percent of households in each state. (In Washington, those earning under $20,000 a year.) As you can see, if your goal is to soak the poor, we kick ass.
Nationally, the average effective state and local tax rate on the bottom quintile of households is 10.9%; in neighboring Idaho and Oregon it is 8.6% and 8.7% respectively. Makes you feel proud, doesn’t it?
And how do we rank in terms of how we treat the wealthiest one percent of households? (In Washington, those earning over $537,000 a year.)
The Ten States with the
Lowest Taxes on the Wealthy
| Wyoming | 1.5% |
| Nevada | 1.6% |
| South Dakota | 1.9% |
| New Hampshire | 2.0% |
| Florida | 2.1% |
| Alaska | 2.2% |
| Washington | 2.6% |
| Texas | 3.0% |
| Tennessee | 3.1% |
| Pennsylvania | 3.9% |
So here in Washington, if you earn under $20,000 a year, you live in the highest taxed state in the nation. But if you earn over $500,000 a year, you live in one of the lowest. And that’s what makes Washington’s tax structure the most regressive in the nation by far.
The legislature will raise taxes this session; the only question is on whom?
Very powerful, well stated. Hope it gets repeated often.
Washington’s tax system is a Rube Goldberg affair that was patched together over the course of a century by a succession of legislatures and politicians of both parties.
But today it is Democrats who want to change it, and Republicans who fight fiercely to keep it just the way it is.
So, I don’t think it’s unfair to begin calling it “our Republican tax system,” because that’s exactly what it has become.
Low hanging fruit?
Tax exemptions are a target rich environment. A few of my fav targets:
*spraying poison on food (“chemical and fertilizer sprays”)
*Coal fired smokestacks in SW WA that are almost solely responsible for the constant haze on nice calm day
*financial transactions
Total Hogwash.
1. If you earn 20,000 you get a federal refund. You don’t pay any taxes.
2. You can deduct your state sales taxes from federal taxes owed, which in the case of 20K a year income is $.00 owed, so it only adds to refund…
3. If “the poor” have any children, they add to the federal refund amount.
4. A family making 20 a 20K a year is on some form of government assistance.
http://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tools/?PID=1434610
The “poor” don’t pay taxes in this country.
Another one:
*Fossil fuel refiners / storage get a break on an assumed shrinkage (evaporation) of their products.
Much more here:
http://dor.wa.gov/Content/Abou.....fault.aspx
oh goody goody, more number manipulation in order to fit a predetermined conclusion.
Once again, why dont you figure out a way to get our bastard govt to spend less money.
If washington wasn’t run by a dictatorship of evil rich white republicans that pledge their allegiance to big evil corporations then washington wouldn’t lead the nation in screwing over the poor.
Maybe the racist republican leaders in washington can look towards detroit for an example of democrat leadership they can learn something.
/sarcasm
It does make you wonder why such a liberal state treats the poor so badly and the rich so well. One could make the point this is just another example of democrats/liberals living the “do as I say not as I do” lifestyle.
don’t pay income taxes.
When the poor buy their kid an Xbox for holiday season they pay sales tax don’t they?
Don’t the poor pay the state/federal taxes on their cellphones?
#8 Don’t forget…gasoline taxes, park “fees”, license “fees”, etc. Pretty much any money exchange you have with anyone will involve taxes. Hell, even if you rent part of your rent is practically paying your landlords real estate taxes (unless they’re so KIND as to not ‘pass that on’ to the renters and just pay for it out of pocket…er…right). So even super poor renters pay LOTS AND LOTS of taxes.
Once again, the wingnuts just make up stuff for their fantasy world where no one paid taxes under Saint Reagan or any Republican and only democrats collect taxes. I get tired of this kind of stuff. Like Fake New, or Michelle Malkin and this weeks totally just “made up” story about some kid being expelled from school for drawing a picture of Jesus (didn’t happen, totally fictional). Just like creationism, the anti-reality field behind these folks knows no bounds.
Wrong Stuff @4,
We are comparing state and local taxes against state and local taxes. Federal taxes have nothing to do with this, and the source I reference breaks down effective rates both before and after any federal offset. Either way, Washington has by far the most regressive state and local tax system in the nation.
Facts are facts.
I’m happy with what we have now. I say no income tax for WA! Never, never, ever!
Stamm – Goldy
The “poor” do pay sales tax which is 100% deductible from fed taxes.
Since a family of 4, earning 20k pays no federal taxes, They get a redistribution of $ from the gov.
So no, the poor do not pay taxes.
Use the link to run scenarios and you’ll see the results.
That also doesn’t include the “payments” received by a family from gov entitlements.
Can you provide a link to a wingnut saying no one paid taxes under reagan?
Or like you said, “the wingnuts just make up stuff for their fantasy world.”
When your don’t have state income tax but a large state sales tax, this is the obvious outcome.
I suggest a large carbon “tax & dividend” at state level. Esp since the bill our senator has introduced is unlikely to get passed in the senate.
Right Stuff @12:
Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit.
The “sales tax deduction” is from income, not taxes. If it came out of the tax, it would be an exemption.
Unless you kept every single receipt for the entire year, your sales taxes aren’t “100% deductible” … instead, the allowed amount is based on where you live and what you earned. The IRS calculator hasn’t been updated for 2009, but in 2008 the solo-filer deduction from taxable income (not exemption from tax) was $351 if your income was under $20K, $595 for incomes between $20-30K. The federal tax savings from those amounts would be well under $100, and closer to $25.
Moreover, the sales tax exemption is available only if the filer itemizes deductions.
Typically, Right Stuff spews bullshit. And stupidity. And irrelevance.
We all know of a lefty who claimed he didn’t pay 2008 (filed in 2009) taxes under GWBush.
GBS told the world this. Nary a peep from the HA Libtardos.
@16 So what? I never use all my deductions. I pay more taxes than I owe. When you start cheering me and telling me how fucking wonderful you think I am, then you can start condemning GBS. Until then, you can just STFU.
So has Jeremiah 42:18 sunk in yet? Or do you now require an education from me on the Bible as well as on black American history?
By the way, trolls, I’m still willing to participate in a Puddy intervention. I say let’s get on with it before the sad fuck’s mind deteriorates any further.
Wrong Stuff @ 12: Utter Bullshit.
The Sales Tax deduction from federal income taxes is not a tax credit, it is an itemized deduction.
So in order for the poor to take advantage of it, they have to have itemized deductions in excess of the standard deduction. In order to take the full deduction, they would have to have itemized deductions higher than the standard deduction, PLUS the 10% or so they spent on sales taxes.
A family earning $20,000 is VERY UNLIKELY to have itemized deductions in excess of the standard deduction. To do so you usually have to own a house so you can itemize your mortgage interest payments, real estate taxes, etc. A family earning only $20,000 a year is highly unlikely to be able to do that.
So your argument against the statistics fails. And it actually demonstrates WHY the state’s tax system is so regressive against the poor.
Oh, by the way, the Republicans in 2006 were opposed to re-instating the sales tax deduction against federal income taxes. They were happy with being able to deduct state income taxes, but did not want that extended to the sales tax. They tried to tie it to a provision which allowed owners to avoid paying minimum wage to food service workers.
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That’s always a good thing.
That’s something you have in common with Puddy-
GBS, on taxes you suck! Puddy paid more than his fair share!
Again, nice number manipulation. Goldstein at 10. So while you are comparing only the taxes you want….I argue that any normal person would look at the taxes they pay. That includes federal and state taxes. I pay plenty of federal taxes, but of course, in your little world, that doesn’t count. But for me, taxes are taxes and they all come out of my pocket.
I was reading the pdf file attached and while the numbers are supporting a certain point of view, there is nothing in there even remotely showing how the numbers were achieved. How do they arrive at 17.3 percent ? What is the consumption they assume, what items are being bought, etc etc.
@22….its the little game that goldy and the rest of the progoressives play.
his numbers are meaningless – accept to the people who want everything taken care of by the govt but they expect others to pay.
typtical of the lazy left.
The Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, a liberal-leaning group…
Puddy says hmmm…?
Steve Steve Steve,
Trying ylb arschloch tactics again. Everyone can see where you failed right here…
Jeremiah 42:10-18 is just fine with Puddy. You have issues with prophets. You mislabel some people and you misinterpret others. You didn’t remember the text until Puddy delivered it. Another libtardo with poor Bible skillz.
Sucks to be Steve. How are those Tollycraft Boats Kommodore Steve?
Issues with prophets? Who? Your own lunatic prophet, Ellen White? The gal that got knocked on the head and the next thing you know God’s talking to her? Sure, I have issues with a fake prophet like that unfortunate, raving loon. You, on the other hand, swallowed that bullshit hook, line and sinker. Probably because you’re a gullible fool with the IQ of a flatworm. Indeed, I’d say that you’re the one with prophet issues, Puddy.
Not to be fussy, but isn’t there a case to be made for Florida as the most regressive? After all, they are #2 for socking it to the poor and #5 for gently caressing the pocketbooks of the wealthy, whereas Washington may be #1 for kicking people when their down, we are #7 when it comes to cooing sweet nothings to the luxury class.
Add the scores together and Florida totals 7 while we score an 8. Next in line is Texas with 13.
We’re #2!! We’re #2!! We’re #2!!
Let’s say you have an 8th grade class that’s been assigned to volunteer to clean up litter around the the school’s neighborhood throughout the school year. But a not all of the litter is being picked up. In this class, the top 10% of of the students are doing 40% of the work, but the bottom 50% of the students are only doing 3% of the work.
If you want more litter to be picked up, what’s more fair? To ask the top 10% to work even harder, or to ask the bottom 50% to do more of their fair share?
I charted the data in this report to show taxes paid by income group.
You can see the “regressivity” here.
As of 2007, WA state collected $8881 in tax revenue on a per capita bases. 17th in the country.
Marvin @ 20, 21:
There you go again, why did you say Gen. Colin Powell is a war criminal?
Troll @ 28: Nice attempt at mixed metaphors. Wingnuts always try to argue that the rich “deserve” more money because they work harder, are more thrifty, more intelligent, more sober, etc., and the poor shouldn’t be helped because they could be rich, too, if they just worked harder.
Reality, of course, is that desirable and undesirable personal traits pretty much run the gamut of income levels. For every hard-working rich person, I can point to lots of trust-fund spoiled rich kids who haven’t (and won’t) do an honest day’s work in their lives. The problem is, they believe their own propoganda, and believe that somehow they are the “producers” in society, and believe that because they were born on third base that they hit a triple.
Similarly, there are lots of hard-working, honest, thrifty, sober people who didn’t get many breaks in life and are working two jobs just to make ends meet, which could all come to naught if anything unfortunate happens (illness, layoff, etc.).
People shouldn’t confuse good fortune and luck with moral virtue. And we certainly shouldn’t make tax policy based upon such false assumptions.
Man, the trolls are out in force in this thread. Why so threatened?
we also have some of the most wealthy men in the world living here in washington. if we tax them too much, they might leave.
but you have a point, goldy. we tax the poor too much. we should tax everybody a little less.
and cut down on government spending.
@31
In the situation I described, do you feel it’s fair to ask the top 10% of students who are picking up almost 40% of all the litter to pick up even more litter?
Don’t you think it would be more fair to ask the bottom 50% of the class to help out more, since they are only picking up 3% of the litter?
Steve, Steve, Steve…
Where did Puddy claim she was a prophet? Did Ellen White ever claim she was a prophet, or, as always you make crap up to make your silly ASS seem to look good?
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@22 “That includes federal and state taxes. I pay plenty of federal taxes, but of course, in your little world, that doesn’t count. But for me, taxes are taxes and they all come out of my pocket.”
You don’t need to keep proving you’re a simpleton. We already know that. The state legislature has no control over federal taxes, idiot! The state legislature, however, does have to fund state programs like education, prisons, Medicaid, etc. What you pay in federal taxes is irrelevant to keeping violent inmates locked up in Walla Walla where they belong — something a former Republican governor of Arkansas and GOP presidential candidate wasn’t willing to do.
@23 The numbers are meaningless to people for whom facts are meaningless. That would be you, dutch, and all your wingnut friends.
@28 The thing I’ve noticed about our economic system is that people who have the most money do the least work, and people who have the least money do the most work. It’s not the wealthy who are holding down two and three jobs, or doing the dirtiest and most arduous jobs; and it’s not the poor who are spending their time on golf courses, in yacht races, or touring Europe.
@31 “and believe that because they were born on third base that they hit a triple”
Now there’s a metaphor you can believe in! Statistically, the best predicter of how wealthy an American child will be as an adult is how wealthy his parents are. No one ever got rich by working for wages.
@34 No, I think it’s fair for the 10% who are picking up 40% of the litter to get paid 40% of the income. Of course, the logical extension of this model is that those doing 100% of the labor should get 100% of the income, instead of capital getting 60% and labor getting 40%.
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“The ‘poor’ do pay sales tax which is 100% deductible from fed taxes.”
Sure, but if you’re poor you don’t have federal income taxes to deduct the sales tax from. Croak!
All of the taxes taken together on a gallon of gas in Washington = 55.9 cents per gallon (The Federal tax = 18.5 cents).
I think that the average commuter that only makes $20,000 per year ends up paying taxes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_tax
There is no question. Olympia will raise taxes on the working poor in 2010, as they always do.
Roger Rabbit, have you not noticed???–Republicans have had little say in this state for quite some time.
WA State gov’s Healtcare and Human Services budgets total about $9 Billion a year.
I would guess that many of these services are used by the poorest being cited as paying 17% of thier income in taxes.
To get a more accurate view of tax paid as a percentage of income, shouldn’t the services that people get for free be considered income? In doing so, I think you’d see that the “regressivity” isn’t as wide of a gap as shown in the report.
Conservatives often hold a mighty and irrational resentment against the poor. I believe that conservative leaders promote the notion of America as the land of opportunity (which is, statistically, less and less true) not so much to inspire as to give themselves cover for hating the poor. After all, if we all have about the same opportunities, those who wind up poor have only themselves to blame, right? It’s a ridiculous notion, accepted only by those who don’t understand the enormous difference between being broke and being poor.
I’ve also noticed that those who resent the poor most are typically the least grateful people. They don’t have a clue how lucky they are for the breaks they’ve had; so they wind up resenting people they think (in a way that truly defies logic) that the poor have gotten more breaks than they have.
Here’s a link to a graph of the number of millionaires from 1809-2009
More millionaires today than anytime in history except for when the dot com bubble burst.
Blame isn’t the right word, your sentiment is correct.
A community that sees education as “being a sellout” or “white” is to blame.
How do you explain the “poor” people that become rich/successful?
“How do you explain the “poor” people that become rich/successful?”
Easily. How do you explain the fact that one’s ‘success’ in life is largely determined by the social/economic status of one’s parents?
“To get a more accurate view of tax paid as a percentage of income, shouldn’t the services that people get for free be considered income? In doing so, I think you’d see that the “regressivity” isn’t as wide of a gap as shown in the report.”
Pretty stupid…but if you want to go that route, don’t forget all the perks the rich get “for free”, too. After all, fair is fair.
“Roger Rabbit, have you not noticed???–Republicans have had little say in this state for quite some time.”
The antics of Tim Eyeman notwithstanding, the ability to thwart meaningful constitutional reform (2/3 supermajority requirement) argues otherwise. So actually, they do have quite a bit of “say”. Your dog doesn’t hunt.
Keep writing on this topic, Goldy.
Thanks.
@46 “Roger Rabbit, have you not noticed???–Republicans have had little say in this state for quite some time.”
It seems to me Republicans have been vetoing just about every reformist effort in this state for as long as anyone can remember.
@47 “I would guess that many of these services are used by the poorest being cited as paying 17% of thier income in taxes.”
If you delve into it, I think you’ll find the lion’s share of those services go to the middle class or formerly middle class. The biggest single health-and-welfare budget item in Washington state is nursing home care for the indigent elderly; and not a few of those “indigent” elderly became poor by hiring high-priced lawyers who specialize in helping people become indigent by transferring their wealth to their children through trusts, etc., in order to qualify for Medicaid.
Of course! People on the higher end of the income difference are much more educated than those on the lower end. So of course they would do better in life, and not just in earning $$.
People with 2 active parents in their life do better without doubt. (see how many prisoners in jail had 2 active parents) How do we make that fair to kids growing up with one parent.
Success is also determined by height and looks. Taller and better looking guys get more chicks.
Life will NEVER be fair. I will NEVER be the starting center for the lakers ONLY because of my dna. To artificially make it fair would lower the quality of the competition in the nba.
I think it’s more famous/well known than rich. I’ve seen danny partridge get treated better at a restaurant than my client that has many millions of dollars.
@47 (continued) This really is nothing more than the wingnut argument that government should be paid for entirely with user fees, and that no one has any obligation to contribute anything to the community in exchange for the benefits of living in a community.
Conservatives think government is a five-and-dime store where everyone pays for what they use at the cash register by the door.
That kind of government is no government at all, but merely a five-and-dime; and this kind of thinking undermines the very concept of government taking care of those who are unable to take care of themselves, which is one of the fundamental underpinnings of modern civilization.
The conservatives’ every-person-for-himself concept of human existence isn’t civilized at all but merely an outmoded notion of individual survival in untamed wilderness.
Who wants to live like a wild animal in a cave? Only wingnuts. The rest of us progressed beyond that mentality thousands of years ago.
@57 – “@47 (continued) This really is nothing more than the wingnut argument that government should be paid for entirely with user fees, and that no one has any obligation to contribute anything to the community in exchange for the benefits of living in a community.”
If you think that was my point, then I failed miserably at conveying my thought.
I was only trying to simply state that the poorest of us do get free services that are paid mostly by others. And that if you counted those services as income, the percentage of income paid in taxes would be lower.
I wasn’t calling for the elimination of those services. But I think they are not being mentioned to help strengthen the arguement that the poor are unfairly taxed, and others are not taxed enough
IMO, those services are data that should be included in the analysis. (of course the services themselves, are needed)
“Pretty stupid…but if you want to go that route, don’t forget all the perks the rich get “for free”, too. After all, fair is fair.”
At the state level, what tax-funded perks are you talking about? I can think of none that people get because they make *more* than a certain amount of income.
Goldy @ 32:
That’s because you’re using those pesky facts again!
I do find it funny that everyone wants to argue these facts when Goldy states them; when Timmy E. says “we’re the highest texed state in the nation”, then it’s gospel truth. Of course, Mr. Eyman has never lied.
“At the state level, what tax-funded perks are you talking about?”
An entire system of property relations ajudication and enforcement for starters–that they use to sue each other endlessly…the exemption of their financial assets from the definition of “real property”…paying a couple billion to Boeing to “stay” here….just for starters. But no, you would start by blaming the poor for being poor, and your whole premise is frankly contemptible.
@56. So, you have discovered life is not fair. Way to go. However, this is not some kind of virtue, and conservatives seek to enforce institutional and economic relationships that not only reinforce, but widen this essential “inequality” based on socioeconomic class.
So the next time you spout some nonsense about the “merit society”, I for one, will know you are lying through your teeth.