I’ve got no particular insight into how the budget dance is being choreographed, if at all, but it’s hard to believe the cuts-only budgets being introduced next week are intended to be anything but an opening gambit. Most Olympia insiders I’ve talked to expect an effort to put a tax measure before voters at a special election in June, a measure that would most likely include a temporary increase in the state sales tax to fund specific programs.
And progressive activists like me will once again be expected to promote a highly regressive tax increase on the lower- and middle-income families who can afford it least. Huh.
The truth is, it would be irresponsible to attempt to close a budget gap this big without relying on cuts, deficit spending, and new revenue, and there are few current revenue options in Washington state that don’t impose a substantially regressive burden. And regardless of how distasteful I may find yet another sales tax increase—let alone the even more regressive excise taxes that would likely accompany it—I fully understand that there isn’t the time to implement the type of structural reforms I would prefer, while still meeting the immediate needs of the new biennial budget.
Yet that doesn’t mean Democratic legislators and their progressive constituents are free to simply shrug their shoulders and accept the status quo. Indeed, passage of the regressive June measure may provide exactly the opportunity we need to move our state forward toward a more equitable and sustainable tax structure.
So here’s the deal. Put a sales and excise tax increase on the June ballot, and folks like me will give you our support… but only if you also put on the November ballot a measure that would repeal the June increase, and replace the revenue with a tax on incomes over $200,000 a year.
According to the Economic Opportunity Institute, a “high incomes tax” of 3% on incomes between $200,000 and $999,999, and 5% on incomes over $1 million, would raise about $2.58 billion per biennium, yet fall on only 4% of WA households. I’m guessing that’s slightly more than the June measure would be expected to raise.
Yes, an income tax would take some time to implement, and yes, its constitutionality would surely be challenged. House Speaker Frank Chopp and other legislators have conveniently argued that any income tax would require a constitutional amendment—a nearly impossible political feat—but the Tax Structure Study Commission concluded in 2002 that if challenged, the 1933 decision would likely be overturned:
[T]here is ample reason to believe that a modern income tax, established by the Legislature or by the voters, would now be upheld. The basic reason is that Culliton was based on an earlier Washington case which the State Supreme Court clearly misread. More importantly, the earlier case was based on a line of United States Supreme Court cases that have subsequently been reversed.
[…] Today there are only two states (Pennsylvania and Washington) whose courts have not reversed earlier decisions treating income as property. In all other states where this issue has been considered, the income tax is treated as a form of excise tax or in a category of its own. Accordingly, there is a reasonable likelihood that if the Washington State Legislature or voters enacted an income tax today, Washington’s courts would approach the issue with a fresh view and might very well decide the matter in a manner consistent with the dominant view in other states with similar constitutional provisions.
Legislators who avoid this contentious issue by merely dismissing an income tax as unconstitutional are being disingenuous; it’s been 75 years since the state Supreme Court has directly addressed the core arguments, and many constitutional scholars have testified that they expect the 1933 decision would be reversed if challenged. Furthermore, the scenario I describe, in which the severability clause is written so that the existing tax is not repealed until the new one is implemented, averts any potential 1933-like fiscal crisis that might be created should the court rule the other way. Unless otherwise repealed, tax increases from the June measure, if passed, would continue to generate revenues until the high incomes tax is fully implemented, if ever.
Should the Legislature put a sales and excise tax increase on the June ballot, it will only be due to an overwhelming consensus amongst Democrats that additional revenue is desperately needed to help maintain crucial services during this economic downturn; if you believe the money is needed, there’s really no other way to generate it fast enough to make a difference. But by tying it to a more deliberative November measure that would repeal the June package and replace it with a progressive, high incomes tax, Democrats would also be given the opportunity to take a clear stance for or against the interests of working and middle class families.
In short: if we agree the revenues are needed, how best to raise them? From families who already pay up to 18% of personal income in state and local taxes, or from the wealthiest 4% of households who have long benefited from the most regressive tax structure in the nation?
Are state Dems on the side of the wealthy or the rest of us? This may be the session in which we finally find out.
No income tax for Washington, no way, no how!
Once that camel’s nose gets under the tent, we’re sunk: we’ll have high everything-else taxes AND an income tax.
No thanks, I’ll keep the devil I know versus the devil I don’t know.
This is a very important essay and one that make me grateful to be part of the community.
One additional fillip … deficits are also unconstitutional and the sate is not far from the point where it can not fulfill its mandatory .. that is constitutional, federal AND legal obligations. Indeed one might argue that a court could force the state to adopt an income tax rather than go bankrupt.
Hell yes! Majority rules! Just like when people vote to ban gay marriage.
Yep, let’s vote to raise the tax on the minority of people who can afford it the MOST.
@1 Fuck you. You freeloaders have had your free ride long enough. Not only will I vote for a state income tax, I also will vote to horsewhip high income tax dodgers. How you like them apples, hey?
What I will not vote for is another sales tax increase. All that does is allow our cowardly Democratic legislators to dodge the tax bullet yet again, and perpetuate an atrociously unfair tax system. Things will never change until voters force legislators’ backs to the wall by saying NO! to any more regressive taxes. If a sales tax hike shows up on a June ballot, or any other ballot, I’m a “no” vote, no matter how badly the state needs the revenue. My message to legislators is, get the money from those who have money, or face the consequences.
I’m sorry, Goldy, but your “deal” is little more than a wimpy cop-out. All you’re doing is enabling the selfish pricks on the other side who are obstructing tax reform.
@2 “Indeed one might argue that a court could force the state to adopt an income tax rather than go bankrupt.”
One might argue it, but the argument won’t go anywhere. This argument was tried in a succession of school-funding lawsuits and squashed by the state supreme court, whose opinions make it clear that Washington courts won’t get into the business of legislating tax increases. That’s the legislature’s job.
@3 I’m with you.
A sales tax IS an excise tax, moron. Is the other tax you’re talking about a car tab tax?
Hey Rog – the BIAW is going to spend $4.5 million trying to unseat Babs Madsen in 2010. Rally the troops! Send up the balloon! WE’VE GOT TO KEEP HER FAT ASS ON THAT BENCH!!!!!
How can you tell Democrats are running the White House and the economy again?
http://articles.moneycentral.m.....tch_090327
Read the link!
The Dow just made its best 3 week run since 1982!!!!!
Just about a 20% gain since it hit the bottom of the Reagan Republican Recession!!
SUCK IT MR. Cynical.
I’m 100% correct, you and your cum drunk friend cjs are wrong. The Stimulus bill is having an effect on the economy.
Ask the cops in MN!
Ask the workers at Caterpillar!
Ask the teachers, construction workers, nurses, EMT’s, firefighters and the rest of the blue collar working class!
Government is working for the people again. And when government is Of The People, By The People and FOR The People, it works!!
Despite what that commie bastard, Ronald Reagan said about government being the problem. No! The problem is conservatism. It’s totally incompatible with American style democracy.
Take you and your Taliban brothers back to Pakistan where you’ll be welcomed by your fellow American-hating brethren!
FUCK YEAH SALES TAX!!!!!!!!!!!!
WOOOOOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The market closed last week at 7,278, this week at 7,776. Mr. Klynical was saying @7 on the “Armed and dangerous” thread:
“Gee, the DOW is below where it closed on Monday. All that Obama hotair did was contribute to Global Warming….gaseous gasbagger.”
Hah! “where it closed on Monday” A five day market week seems to suck for Mr. Klynical. He would rather it was only four.
That asshat “rhp3421” with his grizzly adams beard can go fuck himself – a sales tax increase is the only revenue-raiser that has any political legs. And no, there won’t be ANY opposition to it.
@9 I think the best plan is to make sure they don’t have that $4.5 million. Better yet, let’s make sure they don’t exist when the next election rolls around. Here’s my battle plan:
1. Sue the BIAW for all the money they misappropriated from the retro program.
2. Prosecute and jail those responsible for the misappropriations.
3. Put the organization and its assets under the control of a court-appointed receiver pending dissolution.
Goldy, calling law makers who see this as a constitutional issue liers goes too far.
I agree that this is one possibility, with the others being that they rightly or wrongly believe that an income tax is a constitutional issue. I know many who believe this and I remain unconvinced myself that they are less than correct.
@11 I’ll compromise on sales taxes. I’ll support a sales tax on homes costing over $750,000 and on stock purchases for portfolios exceeding $500,000 with a $1 million exemption for tax-sheltered retirement accounts.
@10
“How can you tell Democrats are running the White House and the economy again?”
The 3 TV networks give Obama free screw-up cards.
Going out of business signs on ever corner,
High UN-employment, 9 trillion in deficit spending, free health care, Government takes over private companies.
High degree of troops dropping out of the military.
Asshole @9,
Unlike a retail sales tax, an excise tax is generally considered to be one applied to the quantity sold, rather than the value. In distinguishing excise from sales tax I was specifically referring to things like the tobacco, alcohol and motor fuel excise taxes.
Excise taxes tend to be even more regressive than sales taxes for obvious reasons. A gallon of premium is taxed at the same dollar amount as a gallon of regular, even though it costs more. Likewise, the tax on a fifth of single malt scotch is the same as a fifth of rotgut.
@15 Well, we have an existing state supreme court decision that says it requires a constitutional amendment, and a body of scholarly thought that believes this decision will be overturned if revisited by the current court, and where that leaves us is the existing decision is the controlling law unless and until it is actually overturned.
Roger Rabbit’s Revenue Plan
Legalize pot and tax it.
Why not tax municipal bonds? These people have been getting a free ride since forever.
And the beauty part is that people who own these types of bonds are rich.
So, in effect, you’ll get even more tax money.
Roger
WADR … the state courts and the schools are not the same issue. As long as there is discretionary income, yes a court can argue that the guvmint must decide to let rapists loose and close the UW. However, at some point, we simply do not have the income from existing mechanisms to meet mandatory expenses .. debt. federal mandates, state constitution.
Are we at that point now? I wonder if we are. For example, if the guvmint closed the prisons, wouldn’t that incur mandatory expenses as well a numerous law suits? Same for the UW.
For a private individual this is called bankruptcy, but you know that. What happens when a state under taxes itself into bankruptcy?
Even before formal bankruptcy, good economics may show that many cuts will actually increase our mandatory costs and lead to bankruptcy. For example, at some point failure to maintain the roads leads to loss of business in the state then loss of sales tax, etc etc.
As for Goldy’s suggestion of a High Incomes Tax, consider the other choices. Close all higher ed or severely restrict attendance. Who does THAT hurt?
I have a constructive alternative
PRIVATIZE LAW ENFORCEMENT
Particle Man @15,
I didn’t say that. I said it would be “disingenuous” to avoid the issue by merely dismissing the notion as unconstitutional.
It’s time to start debating an income tax on its merits, political or otherwise. But those who attempt to cut off debate by claiming it can only be implemented via constitutional amendment will earn my disrespect.
re 17: Do you really think that to be the truth? Are you the kind of truthteller who has a 2000 year old invisible friend that you talk to?
According to the Economic Opportunity Institute, a “high income tax” of 3% on incomes between $200,000 and $999,999, and 5% on incomes over $1 million, would raise about $2.58 billion per biennium, yet fall on only 4% of WA households. I’m guessing that’s slightly more than the June measure would be expected to raise.
——————
The claim above would have to be looked at carefully – no supporting analysis was provided. I imagine you’ve read it Goldy . . can you provide a doc?
Also, the data is based on 2006 income levels, and the pop of the housing and credit bubbles will certainly have changed those incomes.
Goldy–
Allow me to be the one to burst your “tax the rich” bubble. I know you will not listen as you are the only human who is 98% mouth, but humor me…please.
If you go ahead and push this scheme, “Rich” people will simply leave the State and declare residence elsewhere…the 1st to leave will be the Rich Progressives like Gates, Sr. and his son. I suppose you think it will be easy to force these folks to stay & pay. You are wrong. Most of these “rich folks” have multiple houses. In the mere blink of an eye, they can become residents of Alabama, locate theri business in Texas…or other tax friendly States.
Perhaps the concept of “choice” of where we choose to live is a tough concept for you to grasp Goldy. Doesn’t matter…cuz I guarantee you this will become a massive boondoggle…starting with Boeing exiting..then Microsoft and other high tech jobs that can locate ANYWHERE.
Good luck with your populist “tax the rich” schemes Goldy. I’m sure you will find plenty of support amongst the poor, under-employed HorsesAss Class.
The rich folks will certainly find a way around this. They aren’t rich because they are stupid…they work hard & take risks…too hard to give money to freeloaders like you who cannot hold a real job.
Once again, I have 100% confidence you KLOWNS will simply start gang-banging & jerking each other off ….and spend 0% of your time considering & weighing the obvious undesirable consequences of such a move.
Increase Sales Tax==Regressive Progressives
Income Tax==Jobs flee Washington.
@21 taxing municipal bonds is about as clever as using a Discover Card to pay your Mastercard bill.
@22 SJ from SJ
I do hope y’all know the meaning of sarcasm?
21. headless lucy spews:
Because you cannot “retroactively” tax them. And if you do tax them, no one will buy them at the current low rates…hence, state & muni’s would pay much higher rates for their borrowing.
Sheesh, you are a simple-minded KLOWN.
@26 Cynical Mistuh
SURE … Bill Gates is going to live in Alabama to avoid paying a few bucks more in taxes! Yep!
As for Boeing and MS … which do you suppose matters more to them .. usable roads and good schools or the taxes paid by their (very few) wealthy employees?
There is a common misunderstanding about taxes. The proportion of my income that goes to taxes is only important in terms of my total cost of living. Swedes and Canadians pay higher taxes but have lower costs of living than we do .. more disposable income.
I suspect that Messers Gates, Balmer, Bezos, Shultz, Ackerly, Benaroya, Diamond, Szymogi, Allan et al are all clever enough to figure this out.
@25
One last point. Discussion is certainly warranted. But let’s not kid ourselves on this point: once you have an income tax the chances of it being applied only to the top 4% of incomes over time is nil . . . just because the author of the study exempted the first $200K of AGI for joint filers doesn’t mean the state will. In fact, we know the state won’t once this door is unlocked.
Cynical @26,
It’s funny that your defense of the status quo is that rich people are all a bunch of tax cheats and selfish pigs. Sounds to me like you are projecting.
Personally, I don’t believe it. In fact, I’ve seen the Seattle precinct maps from the last time an income tax was on the ballot. It passed overwhelmingly in the affluent neighborhoods where it would have raised taxes, and failed overwhelmingly in the poor and working class neighborhoods, where folks would have seen their taxes go down.
@31 cjs
OF COURSE an income tax will “spread.” Who cares?
The only thing that matters or should matter is how well off we the voters are. If the tax system is efficient, more of us will be better off.
Does ANYONE think WASTATE’s paste up of taxes is “efficient?” Take sales taxes as a start. Across the board sales taxes are terribly regressive because the largest part of the income of the poorer goes to spending. So they pay a much larger percent of what they have then do the wealthy and total costs. welfare, police, heathcare go up!
We fix this problem in WASTATE by having sales tax exclusions for food but the poor still pay more than their share for fuel, housing, etc.
Income taxes, of course have their problems too but is is easier to imagine a progressive income tax than it is to paste together a less regressive sales tax.
Lets face it … Bill Gates could be a fool for objecting to an income tax if it made the quality of life better for him and his family.
32. Goldy spews:
Wow Goldy…jumping to conclusions, aren’t you? So in Goldy’s world, if Washington State imposes an onerous income tax on top of all the other taxes & fees…and someone decides to move, then they are a “tax cheat”???
Wow Goldy. Why so angry? Why so envious?
Why don’t you step up to the plate with an extra $5000 to the State?? Why are you looking at what others can do for you???
I’m just askin’?
RR – I’m sure you don’t approve of the coming G20 riots in London, nor the death threats towards AIG execs and their families. You are much more decent then that.
The only thing that matters or should matter is how well off we the voters are. If the tax system is efficient, more of us will be better off.
Well, put this argument to the voters and make the case they’re be better off, eh?
For example, how will it have corrected our budget woes?
35. Crusader spews:
No he isn’t, he is a scumbag who sits around hackin’ up loogies all day cuz he was a long-time smoker.
And again, Goldy, is there a supporting document for the tax claims you reference?
Hey Goldy, guess what?
Did you know that projected revenue for the 2009 – 2011 biennium is $27.945 billion? And for the 2007 – 2009 biennium it was $27.891 billion? And that is a difference of but 0.2%?
The deficit comes from spending projections by the Legislature that boost it by some $22.5% over current levels. Current spending is $29.258 billion, while it’s projected for the next biennium to be $35.9 billion, plus $1 billion in reserves, hence the $9 billion deficit.
If spending for the next biennium was frozen at current levels – that’s FROZEN, not cut – the budget deficit for the next 27 months would be $2.35 billion.
Instead of rushing to filch from everyone’s pocket, how about urging some restraint on the part of the Legislature? Or is restraint an alien concept among the HA Happy Hooligans?
Not all items purchased by government are of equal priority. If Olympia used Priorities of Government buy list analytical tool to target spending on what’s important, not what’s fluff and folly, then it could actually get something done. But that would require making decisions, something the HA Happy Hooligan auxiliary a/k/a the Washington State Legislature is incapable of doing.
I could say Olympia spends like drunken sailors, but that would be defamatory to drunken sailors.
The Piper
Piper Scott – no can do. Out of control spending is our WA state birthright. The top 4% are gonna have to cough it up!
Hey KLOWNS…
Chew on this Seattle Times article from 1/07…which explains why we are in this mess…and tell me if this article will help or hurt your case for major tax increases?
link
[Copied material Deleted, see HA Comment Policy]
sj @ 22: You might want to talk to some juveniles and their parents in Pennsylvania about privatized justice systems. It seems some judges there were getting kickbacks for each juvenile they sent to a for-profit jail. Not surprisingly, a lot of juveniles got quite a bit of jail time for very minor offenses which should have resulted only in probation. Moreover, quite a few of the convictions seem to be in question – minors cooerced into pleading guilty without the benefit of counsel or even an opportunity to call their parents based on an expectation of a small fine and probation, only to be sent to jail for a year or so.
Justice, like the military, is an essential government function. Trying to outsource it in order to save a buck causes all sorts of bigger problems – like the Blackwater shootings in Iraq.
cjs @38,
There’s a link to the EOI paper in my post. What other data were you looking for?
# 13: Who is “rhp3421”? Is a troll out there trying to cause confusion with my screen name again?
You get rid of the sales tax, completely, and I’ll support it.
Cynical@34:
Of course the loons like Goldy ignore this very occurrence in CA where over 413 millionaires left SF during 2006-2007 period. Who lives in SF? Libtard Democratics who support Nancy Pelosi.
More than 5000 millionaires left CA between 2000-2003 because of high taxes and excessive regulations imposed by the Democratics in Sacramento. Puddy posted the facts before.
In 2005 California had the second-highest out-flow of companies moving to a new state locale of any state in 2005. So Goldy why is that?
Since many of these have to be Democratics since CA is a big blue state and Democratic peeps like Robert Redford don’t live in CA anymore who are these peeps? Democratics of course. They be rich…
@44: headless did it a lot. Welcome to the crowded field.
@43
Here’s the actual study:
http://www.eoionline.org/publi.....-Apr08.pdf
not the fact sheet above. I’m looking, however, for the analysis behind her revenue estimates – that doesn’t appear in the study nor is it referenced other than as “estimates based on 2006 Washington state income levels . .”
Since these numbers are at the core of her results, I’m interested in seeing how they were derived. I assumed you’d seen this material.
@46 PuddyBud:
How do you know all those millionaires left because of high taxes? They might have moved to another high tax area of CA or another blue state.
@45 Greedy – I’ll support changing the sales tax to only apply to people making more then $200K per year. We will issue special identity cards for everyone indicating their last year’s income level and require all merchants to take this new ID# so they can determine if they need to apply the progressive sales tax.
Also definitely we need a progressive income tax, probably 90% for $250K and above.
@45 Greedy – what about conservatives who don’t own corporations like me? Am I evil?
The Truth spews:
@10
“How can you tell Democrats are running the White House and the economy again?”
The 3 TV networks give Obama free screw-up cards.
Going out of business signs on ever corner,
High UN-employment, 9 trillion in deficit spending, free health care, Government takes over private companies.
High degree of troops dropping out of the military.
Dick weed, read Scotty McClellan’s book, the Bush WH used FOX noise as a propoganda tool. And, they created their own fake news reels to promote their propgandist lies. Moron.
What? Are you so fucking dumb that you honestly believe President Obama created the high UNemployment and all the businesses that have collapsed?
Let me refresh your memory about deficit spending, Boy. President Clinton left that cock sucking idiot you voted for, George “Taliban” Bush, a $345 billion dollar per year SURPLUS!!
President Obama inherited the Reagan Republican created $1.8 Trillion dollar deficit. That’s over a $2 trillion dollar swing. Idiot!
Take over of private companies??? Really? C’mon. Try reading Hank Paulson 2 1/2 page document he submitted for bailing out banks and insurance companies that were created because Reagan Republicans deregulated the industries. The regulations that were put in place after the Republican created GREAT DEPRESSION.
Troops dropping out of the military? Really? Has nothing to do with Bush losing the War on Terror and totally fucking up the Iraq War?? Yeah, sure, butt fuck.
God, if you’re truly that stupid then you are bin Laden’s useful idiot!!
If you’re not stupid, then you are one of bin Laden’s smart terrorist in our midst.
Which is it? You’re stupid or smart?
46. Puddybud, Hey it’s the new year… spews:
Your photographic memory comes in mighty handy…again. Thanks!
So Goldy, what say you??
Denial is your happy place.
And don’t think for a second you wealthy Progressive benefactors won’t be pushing old ladies & kids outta the way to be the 1st out of Washington!
How about a more realistic approach rather than class warfare?
GBS–
Your “surplus” numbers fail to factor out the DotCom Bubble Clinton/Gore manufactured.
Get real.
@ Puddy 46 and Mr. C 52:
Nature abhors a vacuum. Millionaires leave, new blood fills the space.
What? Do you think all citizens of California are going to move??
Hell, NO!
What does that mean?
Opportunity for someone else to create a business and become a millionaires.
You really think Bill Gates is going to leave his hometown? Grow up.
Boeing is already finding out the high cost of using cheap labor overseas. IF they leave, Airbus will find a willing, ready, able and highly pissed off workforce and a state willing to extend tax breaks to bring their work here.
Boeing was founded on, and always will find its success on, the backs of the people in the engineering and labor unions.
The CEO’s can move all they want, but what workforce are they going to gamble on and how good is it?
Boeing, if not careful, could go the way of GM with their mismanagement of the company.
You Buffoons.
re 26: See. You always sell your case with fear.
So what if they move? They are not paying their fair share in taxes anyway. What would be the loss to us?
I’ll be standing at the border strumming my guitar and singing Woody Guthries, “So Long, iT’s been good to know ya!” Oh yeah, who’s going to buy their house when they leave?
You are like some kind of comic Cassandra trying to scare dirt poor farmers in India that there is a banking crisis. People who make $600 a year won’t even know there’s a banking crisis.
What do I care if a few rich people buy their groceries and fill up their cars in another state?
46 If there are any folks leaving Canada, it’s not because of taxes or the cost of living. It’s because of Harper.
42 You must have missed SJ’s follow-up post at #28. He had me worried up to then, too.
@53 Nature abhors a vacuum
EXCEPT in that space between your ears.
Does that mean all those tax cheats in the obama cabinet?
Democrats in WA plan
Spendng, Spending, Spending….increased spending increased spending……Whoa! Economic slowdown……I know…..Income tax, Income tax, Income tax…..
http://fiscal.wa.gov/FRViewer......%20Summary
http://dor.wa.gov/Docs/Reports.....able02.pdf
Of course before the election, this was the state of our budget…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEX8spEahgc
Then, 1 month after election night, a different story…One we, who live in the sane world already understood. There is a huge budget deficit….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FISDABLXyoA
It speaks for itself…
@46 Puddy
companies left during the same time RRRR nut cases tax reformers meant Ca schools and roads and .. were poofing.
Be real or be toast!
The links provided above show how spending has increased 23% while revenues, while increasing, were only slightly higher…2008/2007.
So we have revenues slightly increasing, all the while a widening budget gap…..Hmmmmm.
You heard what the pot smoking cocaine snorting teleprompter president said about that didn’t you.
@56 Artfart
Was I THAT subtle?
Also, I believe, since we own the lakes and mountains, we should charge a use fee for anyone whose home or office has a view. In other words if you have an office high up in the Columbia Tower’s south side, Seattle should be able to charge for you use of Mt. Rainier.
While we are at it, you DO KNOW that all waterways are public property? Why not charge a use fee for the shoreline/tidal waters?
BTW .. didja know that your tax dollars subsidize Lakeside and Bush? Howsit that rich folk, who do not even live in Seattle, get to have a tax free place they can educate their kids???? Howsit Lakeside gets to sell tax free bonds?
Let see …
SAM has some pretty dreadful art. I would volunteer to be on a commission that reviews the tax benefits of whatever damn fool donated the hanging cars and hammered dude. It is IK by me that they donated the stuff to SAM instead of Goodwill, BUT Goodwil does not leave their junk in PUBLIC spaces. We should chsrge these tasteless donors a fee for polluting my eye space.
While we are at it, Swedish Hospital has some pretty snazzy rooms for its wealthier clients, Howsabout a luxury tax on ev everything other than a semi private hospital room?
Or … we could just elect leaders smart enough to tell the effin truth and fix the effin tax code!
So if we raise taxes and “spread the wealth” to help the poor more people will fill the space of the poor?
more ideas to make money …
legalize and license chocolate covered marijuana
put blue dye in the tap water and place a tax on bottled water
tax tuition paid above levels charged by WASTATE colleges
tax services that replicate public serveces such as private security forces.
place a toll on use of non Boeing built airplanes flying into or pver WASTATE.
Copyright the word “salmon” and the word “potlach” and charge for its use,
Fine Seahawks and Mariners for every lost game.
Place a toll gate on roads leading to the Highlands, Broadmore, Medina, Hunt’s Point.
… isn’t anyone else here willing to chip in ideas on how we can NOT hace an income tax?? Jeeez.
53. GBS spews:
Are you serious??
California has screwed itself into a corner with all the illegals they are giving handouts to.
And millionaires can still move to some other state and visit California as much as they want.
The point is what is their State of residence.
And California is not desirable, hence the exit. I know folks that have 2nd houses in San Diego. That doesn’t mean they pay Income Taxes there. They can also have their “Corporate HQ’s” wherever they chose.
You are such a simpleton GBS…it’s convenient because it’s the only way you ideology can survive. Socialism and LEFTIST mindless brainfarts are easy to get excited about…impossible to execute without dreadful consequences.
The Socialist Dogma is creating a hangover..just like the New Socialist Leader Obama.
Grow up.
Wise up.
You seem Sooooooo intent on taking money away from those who have…when you should be focused on growing the pie.
Your brainfreeze is sooooo…simpleton!
GBS=
Good Boy Simpleton!
Hey Seattle Jew, I’ve got one to add to your list..
How about a $100/oz. for every oz. you are overweight??
Hell, you alone could balance the Budget!
I’m sorry SJ…but you started it!
Remember sj..
Overweight people use more oxygen, generate more CO2 and flatulate way more contributing to Global Warming and a smelly environment for the rest of us.
PAY UP DUDE!
And for Rog Rabbit..
A $20/pellet tax.
That ought to break you!
Your so full of shit…it eventually must be expelled..one pellet at a time.
Drug test all welfare recipients and 98% of them will fail and cut them off and use the money elsewhere. Obama, go back to Kenya where you were born.
In short: if we agree the revenues are needed, how best to raise them? From families who already pay up to 18% of personal income in state and local taxes, or from the wealthiest 4% of households who have long benefited from the most regressive tax structure in the nation?
———–
Read on regarding what Californians THINK about having their PROGRESSIVE state income tax raised to address their budget woes:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.co.....tates.html
Wrote one:
“This revenue situation is unbelieveable! When will we ever elect representatives who won’t spend more than we put into state coffers?
It’s that simple, folks; you don’t spend what you don’t have, in hand, at ANY time! This state is BILLIONS in debt; congratulations…we have just screwed our children into poverty.”
Now THAT sounds familiar, doesn’t it?
And besides, what does it say about someone that has such little respect for themselves to be overweight or destroy their body by smoking.
At least those that make bad choices with their health will suffer the consequences, unlike obama making sure those that pay their bills on time are taxed to pay for those that aren’t responsible.
@17 “High degree of troops dropping out of the military.”
Recent news reports I’ve seen indicate people are re-enlisting in the military in record numbers because of the Bush Depression that has resulted in “Going Out Of Business” signs on every corner, high unemployment, and government takeovers of insolvent banks and investment firms. .. Anytime a wingnut flings around the word “truth” — watch out!!
@22 The specific question I was addressing was whether our state courts will order the legislature to raise taxes; and the answer to that question is “no.”
@22 (continued) Who’s going to pay for your proposed private police?
@26 “If you go ahead and push this scheme, ‘Rich’ people will simply leave the State and declare residence elsewhere…”
And go where, one of the 5 other no-income-tax paradises?
@26 (continued) Since the current “tax the poor” scheme isn’t working so great maybe it’s time to try “tax the rich” — it can’t do any worse.
@29 Why not tax muni bonds issued by other states? Everyone else does. Apparently you’re not aware this is a common practice:
“Interest income received by holders of municipal bonds is often exempt from the federal income tax and from the income tax of the state in which they are issued ….” — Wikipedia
And because muni bonds usually are exempt only from federal income taxes, the fact they may be subject to state income taxation is already priced into the value of the bonds.
@31 Since you’re so good at foretelling the future, can you tell me what the price of a selected list of stocks will be 6 months from now?
@33 Actually, SJ, we can quantify the regressivity of Washington’s tax scheme. The Gates Commission report said the bottom 20% of households pay 17% of their income in state/local taxes and the top 20% pay only 4%. So, the poor are paying relatively 4.25 times as much as the rich.
@34 Please explain how a state income tax that would shift tax burden from poor 17-percenters to affluent 4-percenters is onerous?
@35 You’re right, I don’t approve of mob rule or vigilantism. You didn’t dream for a moment that a retired judge would, did you? If a judge doesn’t believe in rule of law, who does?
@37 Actually, I wasn’t a long-time smoker, or for that matter a smoker at all. Except for an occasional after-dinner cigar. The reason I sit around hacking up loogies all day is because I got sick in the Army while serving my country in time of war. However, I was decent enough to never apply for veteran’s disability benefits because I figured other people, who were wounded in combat, needed the money more than I did.
@39 You’re onto something there, Piper. Let’s freeze state payments to vendors. And to accomodate state workers, higher ed workers, and teachers whose pay is frozen, let’s require private businesses to freeze the prices they charge for food and health care, both of which have been leaping upward at obscene rates of increase lately. That should do it.
@39 (continued) Oh, and one more thing, we’ll also have to freeze population growth. This means no one can have babies and no one can move into our state.
@44 Yes, a troll has been posting under that screen name for quite a while now.
@45 The Gates Commission report discusses several possible proposals. The one most frequently discussed would replace the B & O and state sales tax with an income tax. Local sales taxes would continue to exist.
@46 Since it’s impossible to live in California unless you’re a millionaire, that looks like normal out-migration.
@50 No, just stupid and self-hating.
@58 Name one tax cheat in Obama’s cabinet.
@60 Spending increased under Gregoire because the state had accumulated a large backlog of deferred spending. For example, state workers hadn’t received a cost-of-living adjustment for 4 years, and our roads were falling apart because a GOP-controlled state senate blocked transportation spending for 10 years. Funding the two voter-approved school initiatives cost over a billion dollars a year. Gregoire also restored health care for 40,000 poor kids that Rossi cravenly cut from a previous budget. She also added 5,000 places to the state college system, which has been starved of state funding for years and had failed to grow with the state’s population. The truth is, there isn’t a single extravagance in the Gregoire budgets, and state spending as a percentage of Washington’s personal income has been steadily shrinking over the years, with the result that even with Gregoire’s catch-up budgets state services on a per capita basis are now at a historically low level.
But the wingnut trolls won’t be satisfied until there’s no state government at all, no roads, no prisons or courts, nothing but anarchy.
@61 This is a state matter.
@61 (continued) btw, marvin stupes, our prez outgrow coke — yours didn’t.
Hey, I’m not saying you should like President Obama. In fact, I prefer you don’t. It’ll be more entertaining to watch you writhe every day of the next 4 years.
@64 I think you’re onto something. Eliminate taxes, charge use fees for everything, including breathing the public air, but exempt everyone making less than 200K a year.
@68 Of course I should pay taxes. I’m getting away with murder. Well, maybe not murder, but I’m getting away with freeloading which is almost as bad.
You and I are two of a kind, Cynical. We’re both born Republicans, neither of us is productive, and neither of us pays our fair share of taxes. Hell, you could be my twin brother, for all I know! Do you have long pink ears and a fluffy cottontail?
@69 Since most welfare recipients are young children, to believe your spew, someone would have to believe that all the poor kids in our state are doing drugs.
The leading cause of welfare dependency is desertion by fathers.
We wouldn’t need welfare if we could make men — many of whom vote Republican — live up to their family responsibilities.
100% of the last 26 comments have been posted by Roger Rabbit! If you don’t like it, go to Stefan’s moribund little blog, he needs the traffic!
Wow! This thread is already up to 100 posts! That’s more traffic than Stefan’s blog has gotten all this year.
re 65: “You seem Sooooooo intent on taking money away from those who have…when you should be focused on growing the pie.
Your brainfreeze is sooooo…simpleton!”
It’s not about the size of the pie. It’s about my percentage of it.
Simpleton.
Grow the pie yourself, slave boy.
Mr. Cynical
Yep, I am not just “overweight” I am adipose impaired to the point of morbid obesity. In fact my excess weight will likely cost me some years of my life, leaving the world to wonder what might have been if I lived longer!
I will just just have to try harder.
49. Crusader spews:
Crusader, Puddy posted this on HA long ago. I realize you are a leftist with no long term memory. Puddy reads Forbes and other rational tax discussions.
The US Census data (census.gov) for the San Francisco Bay Area which includes SF and SJ cities and burbs saw more than 200,000 people leave from 2000 to 2006. Now some will call that the dot com bust. But further studies showed these were predominantly white baby boomers, now in their late 50s and early 60s, are moving out of high-cost state of CA in favor of less expensive areas. Who votes in the 70% Democratic range? SF and SJ areas. Nancy Pelosi, Barbara Boxer and Dianne Feinstein have their political base there. NUFF SAID!
These leftists left the state. You can Google “5000 millionaires leave California” and start reading all about it. Why does Puddy have to do all the heavy lifting for HA Democratics? Why are you leftists so mentally lazy?
Crusader wrote:
Yep leftists are NAZIs! Special identity cards.
53. GBS spews:
Sorry GBS but you must have come across some of Steve’s Stupid Solution.
I know you read Forbes because we discussed it over lunch one day. CA has bigger deficits every year. With the millionaire out-flight, CA is losing high quality tax base. Since you only have poor peeps left they keep raiding it from the poor.
GBS I expected better from you.
@59: Could you put that into English please?
89. Roger Rabbit spews:
You’ve got to be kidding.
Tim TurboTax Geithner
KABLAMMMMMMMO
Another pellet shoveled away.
90. Roger Rabbit spews:
State Sen. Dino Rossi’s plan to eliminate 40,000 children from Medicaid insurance was rejected. [Seattle Times, 6/8/03] Who was guvnur then?
Tell us more Pelletizer! How could Gregoire restore something never taken away? Your head so far up someone’s ASS you are recycling their “pellets”. PuddySuggestion, go back and retroactively request those disability benefits. You are getting more moronic each day.
KABLAMMMMMMMO
Another pellet shoveled away.
101. headless lucy spews:
This comment from the king of zero sum games…
You can Google that!
Puddy-
The Pelletizer was on a real roll last night I see. Seems like the more he posts, the crazier and crankier he gets.
There must be some of Leftist term for someone who overposts and becomes a raving lunatic??
I call it “Nuts”…but that wouldn’t be too politically correct.
SJ–
Sorry to hear about your affliction. Weight problems can be very debilitating. I won’t make fun of you about it. I was just trying to prove a point that everyone has a tax base potential that would hurt them worse financially than others….and LEFTISTS tend to look at wealth & success as evil and worth punishing.
Puddy–
Excellent job of throwing a huge bucket of cold water on GBS and others who think taxing the “rich” will be easy, fair & effective.
If Bill Gates wants to stay a Washington Resident and pay HUGE taxes…by all means, do so.
HOWEVER, Bill Gates does not take a huge salary. Most of his wealth is Unrecognized Long-Term Capital Gains. He gives his winning stocks to charity…not so much cash. Not sure Bill would really contribute that much personally to the coffers directly. Same with lots of wealthy people. One of the tricks is to take a smaller salary. If you don’t have a Corporate State Tax…it’s easy. If you do, it’s easy too…move the Corporate Office to another State ala Boeing. Simple.
You KLOWNS underestimate Capitalists because you are Simpletons. You get all lathered up about taxing the “rich” assuming they are gonna just sit there and take it. That they have no other options. California has proved it as Puddy so adeptly demonstrated.
Good luck with your mission of fleecing successful people you boneheads.
Like I said before, if you put all this energy into “growing the economic pie”, you wouldn’t have to be such putz’s. Instead, when you look at all the anti-business laws passed & proposed by Atheist Progressive’s in Washington, you are doing the exact opposite. Killing incentive to grow the pie.
I know you are all so warped and pea-brainwashed, you couldn’t possibly take a couple giant steps back and look at the consequences of your ideology. So keep pounding away at the alligators (you know, the game where you slam an alligator when it pops up…only then another & another & another pop up at an accelerating rate until you lose control…that alligator game).
It is fun for us Conservative spectators to watch you become frustrated & ineffective…but a monumental waste of taxpayer time & resources.
Cynical, I don’t expect Goldy to answer my well placed question above when the empirical evidence is two states away. He won’t call his good pal Cruz M. Bustamante and ask him what’s up in CA over the millionaire flight. For those mentally ignorant, Cruz M. Bustamante, Democratic, became the first hispanic to hold a CA statewide office in over 100 years when Cruz became Lt. Guv. in 1998.
Goldy can’t get my original email address out of the SPAM bin. I have evidence to that.
Today’s Rasmussed–
The hero of the Income Redistributors is stuck despite massive PR efforts on Leno, Press Conference & On-line Town Hall SHAM:
Saturday, March 28, 2009
Obama was +32 2 days after Inauguration.
Much of the country is suffering from Obama Over-exposing himself..called Obama Fatigue.
Why won’t Obama give his ineffective PR efforts a rest?
Simple..he’s arrogant! He loves the attention & adulation & high of being on stage.
Typical of those with Bastard Cheld Syndrome (BCS). Look at me Daddy…I’m a celebrity!
Puddy–
Goldy has never been one to allow the FACTS to get in the way of his Atheist Progressive Dogma.
Like I said, it’s gonna be fun to see these naive KLOWNS try to fleece rich folks in Washington.
The harder these KLOWNS try, the bigger mess they will make.
Remember the KLOWN Kounselor in Eugene, OR 15 years ago or so who announced to the world she was going to enact a Strict Tree Ordinance. The very next day, every logger within 100 miles of Eugene descended with Chainsaws ablazin’!
She finally stood in front of the TV Cameras screaming STOP! I won’t do it. In the meantime, thousands of beautiful trees were cut down unnecessarily. She was trying to fleece rich folks by making their property unable to support higher density.
This income tax in Washington scheme is really the same thing.
It’s the unwanted consequences of Atheist Progressive Wetdreams that are both humorous and destructive.
Puddy, check this out.
Bill Moyer takes Obama to the wood shed.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/jour.....ofile.html
When Bill Moyer bitchslaps a “Progressive” President, you know the Atheist Progressive Bowel Movement is in deep do-do!
Cynical:
Back at you – http://www.powerlineblog.com/a.....023177.php
In her 40% support are the 10%ers of 9/12.
Puddy–
I’ve got more dead trees to cut down today and firewood to split. Thank God I’ve got these Marines to help me…3 chainsaws blazing and a 22-ton Hydraulic Splitter. We must have 13-14 cords of firewood…by the time we get done, we’ll have enough firewood to last 5-6 years!
Obama may try to take my money…but at least my hindend will be warm and we have plenty to eat.
Cynical I expect some exploding head libtard to show up with
And other assorted non-sensical commentary.
Fools Puddy didn’t support McCain. Notice no one will be able to refute the facts. PuddyLinks deliver the KABLAMMMMMMMO every time.
Puddy-Back at you
It’s actually worse than that.
Per Rasmussen:
She actually only has a 34% Favorable Rating and it is trending DOWN!
So you are cutting down that whole tree line on that eastern face?
Puddy–
I enjoy Saturday Morning banter with an intelligent Conservative. You are a Great American sir!
Back at you Cynical.
Looks like Scary Land Deal is losing it too. http://www.powerlineblog.com/a.....023178.php
Almost..
All the Lodgepole and Ponderosa Pines….gone.
With maybe a dozen or so exceptions.
It’s really weird but the Pine Beetles do not attack LodgePoles or Ponderosa’s less than 4″ in diameter. The bigger trees die and turn rusty mighty fast…but the smaller ones are green and actually showing new growth.
An interesting twist in Nature.
I love it out here…far away from the flatulance of the KLOWNS!
@122
Great link.
Harry Reid is a smear merchant…who has smeared the wrong guy. It’s funny. Apparently Reid is the only person in the whole world who didn’t know Roberts was Conservative. What a putz Harry Reid is.
It’s funny Reid has been called out by the press to provide specific proof Roberts lied.
I’ll bet Harry is curled up in the fetal position in his cave.
Puddy–
I’ll check in later today.
Chores are calling.
My wife gets back April 9…then we are headed South for a couple weeks of R&R.
Need to spend $$ to keep the economy moving and before Obama & KLOWNstein take it.
Puddy-
I was just talking with Mrs. C..
She mentioned something she had read from the Hints from Heloise column…which I think was a subtle way to check in and make sure I was doing my chores.
After I hung up, it dawned on me how many millions & millions of people have benefitted from Hints from Heloise. People who were…inexperienced in an area or a klutz or lacked common sense. They have all benefitted greatly and seen the quality of their lives improve from Hints from Heloise.
So Puddy, I think we owe it to both Society and to these inexperienced, Dimwitted KLOWNS to try & help get them back on track with reality.
So what do you say Pud.
Heretofore, we shall launch our latest mission:
HINTS FROM PUDDY & CYNICAL
Puddy and Mr C
Son, you know I love you despite our differences, but I do think out of respect for our family you should be more discrete about personal matters.
An assignation between two people .. even of conservative gender … really does not belong on this public forum. May I suggest, whatever your intimate intents may be, that you carry on this courtship someplace less public?
@127 “someplace less public”
It really is a disgusting display of self-loathing attraction. Troll on troll. Yuck! This is a political blog. There must be a more appropriate site where they can go to carry on with this kind of stuff.
@107 Of course I know Geithner is a tax cheat. What do you expect from a Kissinger protege? When I asked you to name a tax cheat in Obama’s cabinet, puddy, I meant the Democrats in his cabinet, not the Republicans or Wall Street types. You can take it for granted the latter are sticky-fingered. That’s what happens when a Democratic president foolishly panders to the capitalist crowd — he ends up with tax cheats in his cabinet.
@110 I don’t want much, Cyn. Nothing more than the rich pay the same taxes that working people do. To wit:
1. A flat rate tax.
2. Everyone gets the same exemption and deductions.
3. No exclusions, tax credits, or other legerdemain.
4. No taxes on estates; abolish the basis step-up and tax inheritances as ordinary income of the heirs.
5. Tax capital gains and dividends at the same rate as wages.
@112 Speaking of redistribution, Republican economic theology redistributes income from those who work to those who don’t.
@116 Anytime a House Speaker commands a 40% approval rating, that’s pretty damned impressive, considering that hating Congress is our national sport. Where was the GOP congress, somewhere around 3%?
Well, that’s it for today folks, because there’s nothing else going on here except puttybutt and goatfucker jerking each other off, which isn’t worth watching let alone commenting on.
130. Roger Rabbit spews:
@110 I don’t want much, Cyn. Nothing more than the rich pay the same taxes that working people do. To wit:
You are dreaming Rog.
I like a flat tax…but not the way you describe it. It will lead to a Depression.
Folks will simply not invest & take risks.
Then we will all need the government to wipe our bunny asses….which is precisely what you and the other Neo-Socialists desire.
@134 The last thing the economy needs right now is more investment money. It’s awash in investable funds. There’s over $3 trillion sitting in T-bills earning essentially no interest because there’s no place to invest it.
Too much investment cash leads to bubbles. Bubbles lead to financial crashes. This accumulation of investment cash in the accounts of the rich has been at the expense of workers. Falling wages depresses consumption. Consumption crashes lead to economic crashes.
After 30 years of Republican greed and misrule, economic conditions in the U.S. now resemble those of the late 19th century, when assets and national output were concentrated in few hands and living standards were declining for workers. That’s a recipe for depression.
By voting for Republicans, you vote for economic collapse.
In 1954, John Kenneth Galbraith wrote in his classic work, “The Great Crash, 1929,” that he didn’t think a future stock market crash like that of 1929 would lead to another Great Depression. Conditions, he said, had changed too much:
“Between 1929 and 1948 the share of total personal income going to the 5 per cent of the population with the highest income dropped from nearly a third to less than a fifth of the total. Between 1929 and 1950 the share of all family income which was received as wages, salaries, pensions, and unemployment compensation increased from approximately 61 percent to approximately 71 percent … dividends, interest, and rent … dropped from just over 22 to just over 12 percent of total family personal income. In ensuing years the improvement in income distribution … remains far better than in the twenties.”
In fact, this situation has now reversed itself, and income distribution today resembles that of the 1920s, with workers getting less than half of the nation’s output. Once again, there are large pools of capital far in excess of what the economy can absorb to produce goods and services for which there is demand. And for 30 years, Republican politicians and policies have been steadily dismantling the regulations, circuit breakers, and protections put in place after the Great Depression to prevent a recurrence of that tragedy.
It’s a fucking mystery why Republicans think beating down wages and sending American jobs to foreign countries won’t kill consumer spending and trigger an economic collapse.
Here is the economic record of the two political parties since Harding assumed office in 1921.
During that time, Democrats held the White House for 40 years and Republicans occupied it for 42 1/2 years (as of 2003) — their tenures in office were nearly equal. Here’s what happened over that span of 82 1/2 years:
Democrats created 75,820,000 new jobs, Republicans less than half that many, only 36,440,000. The average annual job creation was 1,825,200 under Democrats and almost a million less under Republicans, only 856,400.
Of the 9 Republicans during that time, two-thirds or 6 presided over a depression or recession. The Dow Average grew 52% more under Democrats, and GDP grew 43% more under Democrats.
Can anyone doubt who is better at managing the economy?
(Figures based on data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics and Economic Policy Institute)
Pelletizer@129:
EPIC FAIL Dude. Geithner is one of yours fool!
Can you say KABLAMMMMMMO? KABLAMMMMMMO
Another pellet swept away.
Pelletizer@138:
Post the actual link. Your pellets are full of crap lately.
Pelletizer:
That’s becuz Democratics started printing money willy nilly. Obama just increased the national debt by 1.75 Trillion. If you subtract the last Bush deficit of 455 Billion that means that Obama’s Democratics will have increased the national deficit almost 3X of Bush. Dems da factz! All in less than 100 daze.
What a loon Pelletizer is
Somehow the dates just don’t add up from this fool! 1994-2006 is only 12 years.
Ha Ha I would love to see the Democrats put a huge tax increase on the June ballot. Make my day!
Does it seem strange to anyone else that people who claim to be moral and conservative would also advocate that the State not pay its bills?
Are they aware that we/they ARE the State? Or do they only feel this way about debts they owe on their own? Sure would make me nervous about buying anything from a company these irResponsible Radical Republican Religious Rightists (iRRRRR) might invest in?
iRRRRR
@142 Puddy
Why do you ONLY refer to 94-06. Wasn’t there a senile cowboy running the country before that? I think his name was Ronald Raygun?
For that matter, why do you think the only Republicans are thise wearing Donkey skins? WJC was to the right of most Dems.
‘ns tell me, grasshopper, exactly what part of the New Deal/ Dem policies do YOU object to:
social security
GI bill
community colleges
national parks
rural electrification
the internet
genome project
or is it the socialist actions of republicans that bother you:
war on cancer
national highway system
?????
@141 Puddy oh Puddy
Have you ever studied economics?
Borrowing is not the same things as printing. Moreover, as a result of the dollar becoming a world standard, we actually print only a tiny portion of the virtual dollars. In comparison to National Banks elsewhere, the US has very limited ability to control its money supply.
Under Phil Graem’s economics (Clinton was as bad),
“printing money” became passe. In recent years we generated it out of thin air by leverage and sovereign funds.
Best estimates I have read are that something like 40 trillion vapor-dollars were willed into being during the Bush years.
And youi think it makes no sense for the Fed to print 700 million?
Judd Gregg, Obama’s Commerce Secretary nominee has a few choice comments. Gregg countered each of Obama’s policy principles:
— “It is the individual American who creates prosperity and good jobs, not the government.”
— “We believe that you create energy independence not by sticking Americans with a brand new national sales tax on everyone’s electric bill, but by expanding the production of American energy … while also conserving more.”
–“We also believe you improve everyone’s health care not by nationalizing the health care system and putting the government between you and your doctor, but by assuring that every American has access to quality health insurance and choices in health care.”
He said the United States “has an exceptional history of one generation passing on to the next generation a more prosperous and stronger country, but that tradition is being put at risk.”
Obama is tanking.
ALL his egotiscal PR appearances has lead to “Obama Fatigue”. Somebody needs to be the bearer of bad news to the guy…he is an idiot.
Obama fatigue? Delusional. The only fatigue here is from Cynical and Puddy constantly jerking each other off on this blog.
Yay to anarchy. I don’t want a single dollar more doing to leftist government indoctrination centers(aka K-12 schools). I prefer to let the roads and bridges rot and fall apart, liberals will be extortionately affected. In fact, in a siege-like environment I predict 90% liberal die-off.
145 SJ – I have a problem with parasitic government programs:
* Social Security/SSI
* Welfare
* Agriculture subsidies
* NEA funding
* useless weapons systems
* funding the DC bureaucracy
* useless stimulus packages and bailouts
SJ, why is Gregoire and the State Democratics spending over 9 Billion more than they take in? So you can park your iRRRRR comment to Demented Dingleberry Democratics Dogmatically Delay Destruction (DDDDDD)
SJ@145
Puddy is a US Constitutionalist. Even Diddled Lover admitted per the US Constitution Congress writes the tax law and all spending bills. So who was in control of Congress until 1994? Democratics.
You morons can’t admit Clinton was goaded into balancing the budget under Republican Congressional Control and but you try to propose Reagan controlled all spending under Democratic Congressional Control.
Your move!
I see Steve is drinking the Stupid Solution again. Steve becomes delusional when facts are presented he can’t refute. He enters clueless wonder mode.
SJ: I read Salon. This is what I read.
http://www.salon.com/tech/htww.....index.html
“Economists agree: Print. Money. Now.”
“Other economists chimed in with their own support. But their very unanimity could be a cause for some dismay. Quantitative easing is a fancy way of saying “turned on the printing press.” The expansion, out of thin air, of the Federal Reserve’s balance sheet by $1.2 trillion is a sobering acknowledgment that Ben Bernanke believes the Fed needs to make the strongest possible moves to prevent an accelerating economic disaster.
Nothing in the article discusses “borrowing”. Seems to me my comment is as we say in the ghetto “right on time”. Sorry to burst that argument bubble.
KABLAMMMMMMO
SJ, let’s see the 40 Trillion of vapor-dollars article…
How about an income tax that falls on everyone here at HA? Oh, that’s right–you guys don’t want an income tax. You just want OTHER people to have an income tax. Well, other people don’t want it, either. It’s really easy to want a tax that won’t hit YOU, isn’t it?
speaking of weekend round-up, did you all turn off your lights at 8:30?
@51
No need to use foul words it only shows how stupid you are.
Before Loser boy we where talking about billions in deficit today it Trillions.
President Bush, yes, spent money like a drunken sailor, and left the nation with a record $400-billion deficit. President Obama, however, is spending far more money than Bush, with a record $1.8-trillion deficit projected for his first year.
If you can’t get that right the rest of your opinion is useless garbage.
I don’t know why you are beating up on Chopp about this. He’s been an advocate.
Budget-cutting Democrats in Washington State side with corporate elite against workers and the poor
by Fred Hyde, civil rights attorney
April 1, 2009
Labor’s so-called friends are proving once again to be a treacherous, two-faced crowd. After helping themselves to hefty union campaign contributions, Democratic Governor Christine Gregoire and the majority Democratic leadership of the House and Senate are proposing drastic public service budget cuts, pay freezes, and layoffs of over 8,000 state workers, citing a serious $9 billion shortfall.
How did the state get into this fix? It is the consequence of years of Democrats and Republicans giving one tax break after another to big business. This policy has left state reserves far below the level needed to weather the current crisis.
Killing worker protections
Just as it does in Washington D.C., where corporate opposition has effectively blocked adoption of the Employee Free Choice Act, union-busting large employers are pulling all the strings in Olympia, directing the actions of both political parties. Their lobbyists work for Boeing, Microsoft,
the Building Industry Association, and Washington Association of Business, to name just a few of the corporate heavy hitters.
This became clear when Governor Gregoire and leading Democrats conspired to kill the Workers Privacy Act, the top priority for Washington labor this session. The act outlaws the use of mandatory, employer-called meetings to discuss politics, religion or union matters.
Acting as shills for corporate interests, Governor Gregoire, House Speaker Frank Chopp and Senate Majority Leader Lisa Brown tried to justify sabotaging the act by throwing up a smokescreen of bogus ethics charges against the Washington State Labor Council. Its crime? Having the audacity to say that Democrats who fail to support this important piece of legislation would not get “another dime from labor.”
Only after the State Patrol and the Public Disclosure Commission had cleared the Labor Council of any wrongdoing for its statement did it come out that Governor Gregoire had previously promised Boeing that the Workers Privacy Act would not see the light of day if it impacted the company.
As it turns out, Boeing executives were the real extortionists, threatening once again to take more 787-airplane assembly work out of state if the legislature doesn’t give it additional concessions and tax breaks.
A simple, effective budget fix
The Seattle Post-Intelligencer carried an article a while back stating that in 2007 there were more than 130,000 Washington households with over $1 million in annual income. They currently pay no state income tax. A 10% tax–on their earnings only–would yield $100,000 or more per millionaire household, for a total of over $13 billion in new revenue. Budget crisis solved!
But instead of taxing corporations and the rich, the Democrats are imposing all the burden of the cuts onto state employees, working people and the poor, causing untold hardship and injury and even death. It is clear whose interests they represent–and it sure as hell ain’t the hard working laboring class whose money and support got them elected.
Workers need a fighting party of their own
In addition to mishandling the budget crisis, Democratic legislative leaders have used their power to block almost every piece of legislation supported by labor and to advance all sorts of anti-union legislation, including privatizing child welfare services.
If there are any Democrats out there with a conscience and a sense of accountability–and I know there are, particularly amongst the ranks of labor–they need to mobilize to challenge the actions of this politically bankrupt leadership.
Rank-and-file Democratic Party legislators, instead of following in lock step, voting overwhelmingly for one bad bill after another, should be walking out of the party in protest, in my opinion. They should keep on walking and break with the party, controlled by political opportunists whose true loyalties are for sale to the highest bidder, and help to form a Labor
Party that can withstand the lure of corporate corruption.
In the last 30 years, I have attended dozens of labor conventions as a member of Washington Federation of State Employees. Over and over again unionists have endorsed the idea of calling for a workers’ party and have passed resolutions calling on the AFL-CIO to do just that. State Labor Council leaders often met my arguments for independent political action with the retort that “the Democratic Party is Labor’s party.” There is just one problem with that: the Democrats have divided loyalties and business has the upper hand when it comes to buying candidates and elected officials.
Broken system needs a complete overhaul
Reforms like taxing the rich are necessary to meet the basic survival needs of the working class majority in this country, but they can’t fix a broken system. Economic and political democracy is impossible as long as the major industries, and the wealth created by workers’ labor, are in private hands. As recent events have proven, corporate crooks will go to
any length, including out-and-out robbery, to satisfy the greed of their executives and stockholders. They will continue to use the parties of Wall Street to try to prop up this outlived, capitalist order with its escalating booms and busts wreaking misery around the globe.
Political corruption under capitalism exists everywhere, but there are countries where the workers and poor have pushed their rulers to nationalize resources and industries for the benefit of the majority–Bolivia, Ecuador, Cuba, and Venezuela to name a few. This can also be done in this country. If banks, the auto companies, the utilities and energy companies, airlines, the medical system and other large industries were nationalized under workers’ control, the public, first of all, would know what these industries’ real financial situations are and, secondly, could decide how to run them efficiently in order to share the wealth created by workers’ labor and provide medical care, housing, education and meaningful employment for all.
Now is the time to end the abuse of power by corporations here in Washington State and elsewhere. We, the people who produce society’s wealth, must go to our union halls, strike lines and the streets to fight for our future. Workers in Europe, Latin America and around the world stage militant national general strikes against governmental policies that hurt poor and laboring folk. We can do it here and reorder spending priorities–in the richest country in the world–so that the needs of those who are suffering most are met. One for all and all for one is a powerful rallying cry against injustice and a call that can change history and the tired old “political realities” of this system.
INCOME TAX – JUST SAY NO!
You want to fill out a new tax form every year to prove you don’t make $500,000 per year.
You think the only way to raise money is an income tax.
And you think an income tax will not be tilted to favor the rich.
Well, I guess I’m a stupid Attorney/CPA with an undergrad in economics who took a specialty in tax in law school and has done tax returns for most of our states and I think you are completely nuts.
We are in Washington.
Our economy has been feuled by the advantage we have in recruting professionals because we don’t have an income tax.
Go ahead elected Democrats, vote for the income tax, or grab the third rail… I don’t care because if you vote for an income tax you lose my vote, my support and my contributions.
BTW SJ @ 148.
I have studied Economics and Econometrics.
Please show me one regression that shows any difference between government borrowing and gross spending.
I’ve used the Suits Model, and the MIA (Monetary Income accounts) both had optional government debt repayment variables and neither one ended up assigning a strong coefficent or signifigance to them.
When goverments do pay they take in income or issue debt to offset the payments resulting in only a distribution effect.