Goodbye Washington, hello Nevada.
Ken Vogel of the Tacoma News Tribune breaks the story of a proposed gambling compact between the state and the Spokane Tribe, that will massively expand casino gambling in WA state, on and off reservation land. For the first time, a tribe has agreed to share revenue with the government (between 3 and 35 percent of net win), but the state is giving up huge concessions in return, including 24-hour operations, no betting limits, casino credit, and an off-reservation casino.
But the most dramatic and dangerous concession was granting the Spokane Tribe rights to 7,500 slot machines… as many as 4000 at a single location. Under previous compacts, each tribe was limited to directly owning only 675 slot machines; via leasing agreements with other tribes, as many as 1500 could be placed at a single location. Spokane’s 7,500 slots would be a huge increase over the 18,000 slots currently in operation statewide.
I’m not sure what the state was thinking when they negotiated this compact, but they certainly weren’t thinking ahead. Under federal law, the other tribes have a right to go back to the state and demand similar concessions in exchange for revenue sharing… and the lucrative profits from urban, off-reservation casinos with thousands of new slot machines is sure to lure many tribes to do exactly that. Or maybe the state was thinking ahead, and that’s exactly what it wants… a massive expansion of casino gambling in exchange for the tens of millions of dollars in new tax revenues it would bring into state and local coffers?
Whatever the intent, this is a slap in the face of voters who just last year, overwhelmingly rejected Initiative 892 and its flood of slot machines… and if the governor signs this compact, hurling us down a one way road towards unfettered casino gambling, there will be a price to pay at the polls.
Washington state is already suffering from an epidemic of problem gambling, with all the inherent social and financial costs… and the last thing we need is for our state and local governments to become addicted to gambling too. This compact would set a dangerous precedent that would be impossible to overturn. It is bad for families, and it is bad for the smaller, rural tribes who would be shut out of leasing agreements. It is bad for Washington state.
And we need to let Governor Gregoire know that if she signs this compact, it will be bad for her too.
Wye, Goldy, you don’t really think there is anything socially undesirable with gambling without limit. Just think of all the revenue that the State could collect to subsidize the behavior that leads to poverty. Think of all the votes the Democrats could buy with that additional revenue.
Ouch, just bit my tongue.
For more info on gambling revenue and state tax share, see
http://www.wsgc.wa.gov/Newsletters/brochure.pdf
Interesting to note that the director of WSGC responsible for this deal was appointed by Dems in 2001. Who is this “the state” Goldy refers to in his post? It is the Democrats running this state. They don’t get it and will come up with a hare brain plan like this for one reason only: more tax revenue. They always want more, despite the huge budget increase that was just passed this year. The Dems will stop at nothing to keep the bucks flowing in.
If the gov signs this her chances at re-election will drop from zero probability to a negative number. Perhaps her opponent will do something bold like set goals to wean this state off the Lottery.
I can only quote from the classic movie “The Jerk” when Steve Martin suddenly has a revelation.
“Ah Ha…It’s a profit thing!”
Beit big business, little business or politics, it’s all driven by a relentless pursuit of money. What does it take to make everyone realize that regardless of party the only thing they care about is stuffing the pockets and getting control over increasingly larger budgets.
Goldy,
Keep worrying that “the last thing we need is for our state and local governments to become addicted to gambling too”. Its too late, why do you think so many mini casinos are sprouting?
It is difficult to imagine such a high-profile pact getting this far without the governor’s behind-the-scenes support. Now it is political trial balloon time. I would assume that the governor officially signs on unless there is a huge backlash.
All I know about this pact is what’s in the article, but thus far it sounds like a bad idea. Have the heartless bean counters taken over this administration? I hope Gregoire doesn’t think this is an effective way to “play to the middle,” or throw an ally a bone. Look at how effectively the California Republicans used tribal gambling in the Davis recall campaign.
If Gregoire wants to be viewed as more of an “activist” governor than Locke, this doesn’t strike me as a very effective way to show it.
Under federal and state law, it’s the Governor who has responsibility for negotiating compacts with Indian tribes, so if this is the proposal, it’s Christine Gregoire’s proposal (unless she’s paying no attention to what her staff is doing, which seems highly unlikely in view of the financial and political significance of this matter). Unfortunately, since I’m a Democrat, it appears she’s willing to sacrifice success in her next campaign to obtain some more revenue for the state. Looking back at her last campaign, I guess that’s not surprising, since her campaign was so unbelievably inept that it seemed like every one of the hundreds of dollars I contributed to her must have been spent on advertising various reasons why people should vote against her.
Goldy,
Looks like someone hacked your website and is impersonating you. I know this can’t be the REAL Goldy. Christine can do no wrong!
In the words of Robin Williams…
Hoy Yoy Yoy Yoy Yoy, Hoy Yoy Yoy Yoy Yoy, Hoy Yoy Yoy Yoy Yoy, Hoy Yoy Yoy Yoy Yoy, Hoy Yoy Yoy Yoy Yoy, Hoy Yoy Yoy Yoy Yoy, Hoy Yoy Yoy Yoy Yoy…..SEVEN!!!
Well it’s obvious the state needs more money! I was on I-5 when I was passed by a Daimler-Chryler 300M Hemi C with state exempt plates doing 80! Yeah, we need more money just to put in these gas guzzlers. As much as I detest the Bush administration, I REFUSE to give the State any more money until I see some RESTRAINT! NO MORE TAXES!
It is the hallmark of LOSERS to embrace gambling. Whether it’s the stupid fucking morons who go to the casinos or the people who run them, they are all idiots. Gambling is a tax on people who don’t understand statistics, and more than happy to let them pay for their stupidity, greed and general lack of character.
Gambling is NOT a wealth generating activity. All it does is move around existing money. Gambling is NOT an “industry”. The only ways to generate wealth are manufacturing, mining and agriculture. Everything else is just support services or redistribution.
If you libs really want to help minorities, you should get them off this stupid gambling habit they have because it’s not real. It’s not sustainable. It’s all a sham.
Ray Nagin wants to expand gambling in Nawlins to help rebuild it. HTF does moving money from one pocket to another help?
Goldy, do we agree on something?
(I thought Dems were behind all the casinos….union jobs building them, poor Indians getting a fair break, some sin taxes for the state).
I say no gambling, no Lotto (thats the worst)….
But if you want to be cruel and coldhearted, then yeah, lets have a lot…poor people subsidize my taxes…
Comment by fire_one— 10/8/05 @ 4:56 pm
And you didn’t use your cell phone to get a picture? Or have a camera? Or write down the license plate for future research?
Oh, yoy! Yoy! Yoy! Yoy! Yoy! Yoy! Yoy!
(Confession: I have a die-cast model of a Chrysler 300C at home for my collection. Co$t almost $5.)
Well, I was against 892 not just because of the gambling expansion but because I have true pity for tribal Washington.
That said, this compact should be negotiated solely on true and genuine Tribal Washington need – not want. I doubt seriously all of this is necessary, but I’m not one of the tribal negotiators.
This will also set the stage for 892 redux. Hard to defend Tribal Washington if this sucker – which is what this is – gets Gov’r Gregoire’s sign. The cries for parity will be obscene and the Canadians will be back. You just watch.
Of course, a Gov’r Rossi would chuck this thing so fast you’d think they called Marummy’s Grandpa.
They are turning Washington into South Carolina. God help us all.
Seems like the LEFTIST PINHEADS are finally getting a grip on at least a couple of things here…as amazing as that is to those of us who are always RIGHT.
fire_one–
How about no more $$ to the State starting with the 9-1/2 cents/gallon GasTax.
Vote yes on I-912 and send these tax and squander, socially irresponsible knuckleheads a message!!!
The reason for Gregoire’s support of this issue is obvious. This is a net win for the environment. Under this plan less greenhouse gases will be emitted by all those people flying to Vegas.
Yeah, well 912 has nothing to do w/ this. Nor does the environment per se.
This is, though, something the anti-892 forces (remember them?) could ally around and stand against.
Josef @ 9 – I didn’t take a pic, but I have a couple of emails to my Senator and Congressmen. Number 1, why the hell are we buying foreign gas guzzlers, and number 2, why the hell were they running 80 mph. With the time, date, make and model, they should be able to figure out who was driving. Bet I hear NOTHING back though…. This really pisses me off.
Comment by fire_one — 10/8/05 @ 6:03 pm
Obviously, that Chrysler 300C is a domestic gas guzzler. But I think you need to go to your state legislators as well as the Shark & the WSRP. If you go on my quite dormant blog, there is an “E-mail Blogmaster” link and I can help you from there.
Could be a head-fake so that the Dems. and Reps. can “back down” if I912 is voted down. Otherwise , they can get the additional money from gambling taxes. It’s up to the voters.
Comment by headless lucy — 10/8/05 @ 6:54 pm
Respectfully, this has nothing to do w/ 912. Please spare me.
So why the angst? This is vintage Democratic policy. Help your friends help themselves. They do it for the children, the downtrodden, the homeless, the victims, the illegal immigrants, the felons, the dead, the clueless, the non-residents, and others with a propensity to vote Democratic.
Casinos are a tax on the stupid, a core Democratic constituency. Better that they tax themselves than the rest of us.
Jesus loves gambling – I found proof in the Koran.
re 19: That’s your opinion. ( As respectfully back at ya.) Ya know, I remember a day not so many months ago when I put forth the opinion that the Iraq war was all about oil and just about everyone on the left and right scoffed and said that I was too cynical. After Katrina “W” himself presented securing Iraq’s oil fields as one of his huge successes. I don’t know why the left did not make more of this.
The point though is that I’m better than average at predicting these sorts of things. If you can’t connect the dots, don’t blame me for it. Also, I now realize that oil was not the only reason for grabbing Iraq. Another big reason is water.
But I digress. It seems clear to me that everyone with an ounce of political sense already knows that extending gambling in this state will meet with a lot of resistance. But , if a bipartisan “committee” of some sort can explain before the election that the I-912 , if it passes, would leave the state in a dangerous and untenable position safetywise, then I-912 has a greater chance of not passing. And if it does pass, the state can still get the money it needs from the gambling taxes. Even if this is not their plan, it will work like that anyway.
If the Tribes wanna sport more casinos, and toss the local gov scraps..then I say let ’em !!!
After all, we did it to them a few hundred years ago. Fairs’ fair.
Comment by headless lucy — 10/8/05 @ 8:00 pm
Well, that’s a cynical way to put affairs.
Here’s mine: If and this is a big I-F this deal gets to the Governor’s chair – this will pass up to Interior Secretary Norton. Probably will not get her sign…
Here’s why: The non-tribal governmental gambling industry will be screaming bloody murder. This will run them out of buisness. Trust me. Over time, Las Vegas will lose its draw, and so will non-tribal gambling establishments.
As far as the state gov’r signing it, remember the State Dems are heavily tribal-funded. Gee, I wonder how that came to be?
(Of course, Republicans have done tribes humongous favors and enjoy some tribal… financial aid. Remember the 1988 Indian Gaming Act that got the ball rolling on all of this?)
But w/ State Senator Margarita Prentice being against this, I doubt this deal will get to the desk of the Governor*.
*As selected by King County Elections malfeasance, misfeasance and nonfeasance. This footnote is brought to you courtesy of the Forward Washington Foundation. Mary Lane, Executive Director and Former State Secretary of Defense.
I should though add the quote that sufficied for my POV that the Gambling Commission won’t let the Gov’r* get to choose between the people and yet another special interest group.
The Prentice Quote: “This is really such a radical change in policy that I’ll be uncomfortable about surprising the public about this,†Prentice said.
Couldn’t agree more, Honorable State Senator. Tribal gambling outside of reservations, gluttonous amount of machines, 24 hour ops, few – if any – limits on gambling, etcetera.
As I said before, this will trigger the non-tribal government gambling industry into action.
—–PATRIOTIC FOOTNOTE—–
*As selected by King County Elections’ malfeasance, misfeasance and nonfeasance. This footnote is brought to you courtesy of the Forward Washington Foundation. Mary Lane, Executive Director and Former State Secretary of Defense.
REMEMBER IF YOU THINK YOU DESERVE BETTER – GO HERE AND GET A PETITION AT HONESTELECTIONSPROJECT.COM
So the Spokane tribe wants to kick down some chump change to the local gov’ment. Great..I say let ’em!
Not unlike what we did to them a hundred years or so ago. Fairs’ fair.
Comment by DamnageD — 10/8/05 @ 8:45 pm
Oh, sure. You’re saying that now. I said that against 892.
This is different. This is a gross invasion, this goes beyond any standard of parity – either government-to-government or tribal to non-tribal, and this is a massive increase in # of the most addictive machine the gambling machine has (namely the Video Lottery Terminal/VLT).
Of course, this will fan the flames of Eymanism. NNNNOOOO!!!!
Well,
With the passage of I-901 (smoking) and all the better games…and 24 your service at the tribes…you can bet (pun intended) that all the gaming will go to the tribes…and they will give back just a little. In the meantime…the non-tribal establishments will go the way of the horse and buggy. I have nothing against the tribes…but this looks like a “wink and nod” arrangement…get rid of smoking and gaming (which go together) out side of the reservations…and the tribes will have it all to themselves! And they were nice enough to put up some of the money for Queen Chris’s recount!
Comment by Bruce Kaye — 10/8/05 @ 10:31 pm
That’s what very well could happen.
Not that I would miss the non-tribal governmental gaming, mind you. I’ve never “gamed” – okay, gambled – in my life. But I tend to support the concept of a free… and fair market.
It’s nice the Spokane tribe wants to chip in to the state budget. But w/ these “concessions”?!?!?
While I was attending Eastern Washington University, I would go to the Northern Quest Casino, and limited my time there to the time between buses, and only lost $5-7. The Northern Quest was operated by the Kalispell Tribe, and it was about a half-mile from Fairchild AFB, which is the site of the Battle of Spokane Plains, one of the last battles of the Palouse Indian War.
@1 Bob:
I was thinking just that. Well said. But oh…the Dems didn’t steal the “Governors” election; they just wanted a whiney, skanky, hoe-bag that is as arrogant and fish-smelling as they come in office, that’s all. (Much like predecessor Gary “I AM taking trips to China on taxpayers’ dollars in the name of TRADE-damnit!” Locke.)
I have been trying like crazy to find it, but back in (I think it was the early 90’s (’90 or ’91) AG Ken Eikenberry wrote an opinion about expanding gambling to charity events and what effect it would have. I read it about a year ago during the gambling initiative battle.
Can anyone else locate it? I want to say he predicted that it would expand through tribes outside of the control of Washington State and so on.
Richard @7,
I have never wavered on this issue. I am opposed to expanding gambling. I opposed I-892, and I oppose this. Nobody pays me to support Democrats; I support them because I generally agree with them.
I believe that Gov. Gregoire is making a mistake by pursuing this deal, and I intend to make my opinion known.
Comment by Goldy — 10/9/05 @ 12:37 am
Thanks for taking a stand :-).
So who votes “for” expansion of gambling?
–dems or repubs?
–old vs young?
–city vs suburban vs rural?
–KC vs rest of state?
what is the constituency that drives gambling (i mean voters…not the legistlators)
Terry Jay @ 23
Casinos are a tax on the stupid, a core Democratic constituency. Better that they tax themselves than the rest of us.
All we have to do is fly Bill Bennett in once a week and we can replace I-912.
re 38: Based on your comment I’d say you were a divider not a uniter.
Josef @ 20 – Obviously a car built by a foreign-ownded company (ie Daimler) is a foreign built gas guzzler….
Comment by fire_one — 10/9/05 @ 9:09 am
Okay, one for you – and one for me. It’s a multinational.
Comment by righton — 10/9/05 @ 5:52 am
I’d like to know, too.
You guys kid yourselves if you think that you have any impact whatsoever on whether gambling exists, expands, or is shut down in this state.
Too much money, too many opportunities to grow government, too much opportunity to make deals.
You, the voter, matter not a whit in the situation, and your governor really desires you to shut up about it!
If what I see as a drive down the road is LIMITED gambling, I would hate to see what happens when it’s FURTHER limited.
On the other side, I DO enjoy looking at trashy women with tight clothes and loose morals. (Yes, it’s a failing) So maybe THAT’S my win/win
Steve
fire_one@9
You must be wrong, Ivan and Roger Rabbit both told me the state doesnt squander tax money on cars like that!
re 44: You are a victim of a narrow ideology that forces you to see everything with blinders on. They put blindewrs on horses so that they can see only the travel option ordered by the driver. That horse is you. When I try to speak to you it is impossible. All you can do is describe your blinders.
Maybe I am missing something here, but what exactly is wrong with expanding gambling. Not that I specificly support gambling either, but how is a gambling industry any different from something like a bobbling head hula dancer industry or a firecracker industry. Yeah its a waste of money, but there are a lot of ways for people to spend money on things they do not need, I’ve never seen a lot of push to regulate those.
Redneck didn’t you say at one point you work in stocks? Isn’t that service rather than manufacturing? How does exchanging stocks generate (real) wealth or is it just moving money from pocket to pocket?
If Potshot is the horse, the headless lucite you are the horses ass. There, that clarifies the thread commentary.
Fire_one: Welcome to the show me the money right side of thinking for a change. At least you are not CLUELESS! Regarding the Chrysler car, my ex-college roommate helped design that car. He owns one. If it’s the 5.7 liter Hemi Engine, at highway speeds four cylinders turn off and the car operates on only four cylinders.
http://www.allpar.com/mopar/new-mopar-hemi.html
When you mash the accelerator, the other cylinders kick in again. So maybe he/she thinks they are doing a favor to the state driving that car. I have no clue unless they like it.
For all of you other lefties, apparently you haven’t visited the casinos lately. Just visit the Tulalip Casino next to the Home Depot/WalMart (the wascally people) complex in Marysville. Take a look at the cars there and tell me those are not DONK cars gambling their hard earned coins for what? A mythical payday? Yes, the donks control WA State and the donks see cash cows as a way to get non-tax $$$ in from their constituents, the lemmings of the democratic faithful. I say go for it Christine. Make it way easier to have you as a single term governor.
Figures I call lucite a horses ass and Goldy has the filter on!
Fire_one: Welcome!
This isn’t such a bad idea. After all, there are stupid people out there. Stupid people love casinos, and some of them have money. The state shouldn’t stop until all the stupid people are broke.
I agree this is a bad idea. Plus it would cause some state Constitutionality questions. Voters said Non Indian casinos could not expand yet the state is saying Indian Casinos can expand even off the reservation. Does this not pose as a discrimination issue? One group gets special treatment because they are big democratic party contributors? One wonders if the State Democratic party is for the people or their pocketbooks.
IF the Governor signs this it means she acts like KC if we get sued the taxpayers will have to pick up the tab for their unconstitution actions.
I still think this is a raunchy deal all-around.
More gambling addiction, an uneven playing field, and less controls on a dangerous & unhealthy & uncommunitarian activity.
Besides, a Gov’r Rossi (a Native American, BTW) would have chucked this deal so fast your head would spin…
Comment by Dan B — 10/9/05 @ 12:48 pm
You respectfully ignore what problem gambling does to families. Google Jennifer McClausland if you get a chance…
While we could (and probably will) go on and on about the self-inflicted evils of gambling, can we look at the possiblity that this may not be such a bad thing? Notice that the Spokane reservation isn’t actually that close to Spokane. And the big new Northern Quest Casino outside Spokane is actaully run by the Kalispel tribe, based about an hour’s drive north in Usk. Nothing against the Kalispels, of course. They have the right to make a buck just like anyone else. The Spokanes are trying to get their slice of the pie, and they have every right and reason to do so. I could go on, but it would take too long.
Furthermore, tribal casinos are just going to get bigger anyway as time goes by and they generate money for their respective nations. Look at California, where there are several tribal casinos that are larger than any casino here, and some that are as big as anything Las Vegas has to offer. Proof, you want? Have you driven through Fife lately?
And who cares about what private casino owners think, anyway? GAC was behind I-892, which WOULD have created the nightmare scenario you’re so afraid of, with a lot less money going to the state than the Spokanes are offering.
Finally, quit the boo-hooing about the ‘epidemic’ of problem gambling. True, gambling could be called a ‘tax on the stupid’, but people of every walk of life enjoy going to casinos, and the vast majority have no problems with playing cards or slots. Worry about those who do, don’t prohibit those who don’t. I just see this ridiculous AA-style mentality at work here about gambling turning into something more insidious……
So quit complaining about the Spokanes wanting to build a large off-reservation casino. There already are tribal casinos in this state that aren’t on reservations. This isn’t going to put slots in grocery stores or shops at the mall. It’s not going to endanger our children. On this topic, you should just give it a rest.