Even as citizens from across Washington state joined together to celebrate the inauguration of 2005, former GOP gubernatorial hopeful Dino Rossi refused to concede the changing of the calendar, claiming that “unexplained irregularities” required an entirely new year.
Citing information first posted to the OCD support group blog, Sound Politics, Mr. Rossi pointed to data that showed the number of days in 2005 do not reconcile with the number of days in 2004. In a hastily called, and somewhat incoherent New Year’s Eve press conference, Mr. Rossi angrily slurred “Democrats say they want to count all the days. Well I’ve counted the days, and they just don’t add up. This Gregoirian calendar will not stand!”
Democratic spokesperson Kirsten Brost attributed the one day discrepancy to a “leap year,” but the conservative blogs were abuzz with rumors of this “mystery day.” Sound Politics had originally charged that 2005 had as many as 42 fewer days, but quickly revised the posting after admitting they were working from a preliminary calendar, and had not yet accounted for all the Jewish holidays.
Calling the calendar “a total mess,” Mr. Rossi sent a letter to Governor-elect Christine Gregoire, asking her to join him in demanding that 2005 be set aside, and that the state skip immediately to 2006, or preferably… 2008.
“Voters have lost faith in the integrity of the calendar,” wrote Mr. Rossi. “It is time to start fresh, with a happy new year.”
Hilarious! But the legit Governor-elect is Dino Rossi, UNLESS you think that:
#1. It’s okay to have thousands more votes than registered voters…
#2. It’s okay to put white-out on ballots instead of use a new one and keep that tracked back to the original!
#3. It’s okay to change the body of rules for one county, but not the troops!
#4. It’s okay to have unsecured blank ballots!
#5. It’s okay to count two ballots stuck in a machine when their whereabouts are unaccounted for…
I could go on and on and on, Goldy. But THIS is the top 5 reasons for Rossifarian Resolve… and note what’s missing: The sexiness of Mary “Marummy” Lane, any right-wing kooky conspiracy theories, stuff published only by SoundPolitics.com, the closeness of the election, whining about the lack of manadate (which I posted earlier existed for Gov’r-elect Rossi had he won 3-for-3), and that’s just for starters!
Otherwise, this is a funny post!
Josef – it is over. All he wind in the world will no blow Bosi into the Port of Olympia.
And he is alredy damaged goods for this next run. He will do best in an Eyman-Rosi dual hit team. Rossi will make the Eyman cash machine look like small potatoes. The two are a match, in my humblest of humble opinions.
Josef, please let him concede. He has the cash. Helps heal all the stress. It is the Year of the Gregoire.
Nah, let him keep at it. He’s already shot himself in the foot by sounding like a right wing talk show host, and spinning out conspiracy theories. The more it goes on, the more our new governor can be gubernatorial while he shows himself for the tasteless hack he really is.
Let’s face it — at this point, as crazy as he’s gone, would you trust the guy to park your car, let alone be governor?
+Goldy–EXCELLENT!
Goldy you are a genius! You’ve made my day!
But watch out for the “self-hating” epithets that will fly from the blog that shall not be named.
Happy New Year guy!
P.S. Any way to put a preview button on this comment window?
Yes I would trust him, after all he wants to give US the vote to have a legitamate governor…sweet Chrissy doesnt want us to have the choice.
Goldy,
Nice little joke. But you’ve got to be nervous. It’s been two months and KC still can’t figure out where 3,500 votes came from!? Getting a court to order a re-vote is not an easy task but this is the kind of stuff from which it is made. My Oh my. It just keeps getting better everyday.
paul daniel
Oh yes, I almost forgot about the 3500 votes, it could be a happy new year after all!
A very nice piece of satire. I wish the creator of the other blog were as adept with our mother tongue as you. It wouldn’t make his arguments any more persuasive, but would make reading them more enjoyable.
Sweet Chrissy kind of reminds me of Al Haig, saying as of now I am in charge, while more than half of the people were saying no he isnt, the same with the Washington voter, more than half of us saying no you are not our governor!
Good one Goldy! Rossi supporters do have a sense of humor!
Hopefully this post is an indication that 2005 will be much, much better for you than 2004 Goldy. After all, humor is definitely your strong suit. Dealing with facts and the reality of what is to come on this Governor’s race is definitely not.
Here is one for y’all to chew on. My son has 2 friends that go to school in Santa Cruz…at a public college. They were allowed to take the semester off but got full college credit to run around the country signing up new voters. They not only got college credit but were also had expenses paid and a stipend. According to them, numerous college kids from around the country also had the same deal. And they were the first to admit that they only signed up Dem’s and that they knew of no one participating in this that was a Republican (although they heard there were some…just a fraction of the Dems).
My question is: Is this the appropriate use of PUBLIC university assets? When I was in downtown Seattle, I was approached at least a dozen times by college age kids about voter registration. I watch them sign up bums, people who said they lived out of state etc. I never thought much about this until these kids told me they were paid and credited for doing this.
Do you think any of our PUBLIC university’s had classes that encouraged this? Is it appropriate?
Mr C:
Remember, wear the shiny side out.
Lets say CG settles into the govenor’s office and the immediate vote issue fades away. We understand that every vote should count, so would you support clarification to election law that provides:
1. Absentee ballots shall be sent to all elligible military voters at least 30 days before the election and to be returned using current rules.
2. Any ballot changes that occur after the absentee ballots are sent out that require new ballots to be issued add the same number of days to be added for return as it takes to issue the revised ballots.
3. All absentee ballots will be mandated to include specialized and specific military instructions about the stamps and deadline dates along with RCW.
This way they too will be able to have their votes counted in future elections.
#1. It’s okay to have thousands more votes than registered voters…
#2. It’s okay to put white-out on ballots instead of use a new one and keep that tracked back to the original!
#3. It’s okay to change the body of rules for one county, but not the troops!
#4. It’s okay to have unsecured blank ballots!
#5. It’s okay to count two ballots stuck in a machine when their whereabouts are unaccounted for…
The difference of course is that no county had a completely error free count. The eastern counties generally had more liberal standards for checking provisional and absentee ballots.
Of the nearly 3 million ballots, some were certainly lost in the mail. Most counties counted different counts between the initial count and the re-counts. These favored Rossi in Eastern counties.
Yes, more than one person likely voted in Washington’s election and another state’s election. Some ballots could likely have been eaten or destroyed by a family pet.
Undoubtedly, some ballots were rejected because of signature mismatches even when the voter signed the ballots as his or her signature changed over the years or changed because of an injury.
Still other ballots may have been deposited a post office mailbox(anywhere in the nation or world) timely but were handled incorrectly and arrived late or erroneously post marked.
However, none of these common irregularities or Rossi’s concerns constitute fraud or are a basis for overturning the election result.
Comment by Erik— 1/1/05 @ 11:23 am
Typical Gregovych supporter. Just typical. Comrade Erik, think again about each point and then think if it was Laura Ruderman (who I voted for and blogged for) or Maria Cantwell instead of Dino Rossi… and SPOKANE County had pulled some of those things!
Something for you to think about!
Josef – you can’t keep slinging allegations as proof if your only source is a blog that’s consistently wrong.
1) Preliminary data. When the counts are reconciled and there’s still a problem, then come back to me. But I’ll reserve judgement on this one.
2) They used white-out tape, which is removable. Again, the right-wingers jumping to conclusions before they have the data.
3) They did no such thing. The Supreme Court ruled consistently twice, and KC followed long-standing procedures. There’s no evidence that any rules were changed. Sam Reed and the canvassing boards (not just in KC) agree. Proper discretion was used, as usual.
4) You have no proof of this, just allegations. There’s also no evidence that unsecured blank ballots were used. This is just another thing Republicans threw out and never proved. In fact, they have missed many opportunities to prove this, and now barely even mention it publicly.
5) The two ballots they counted were kept in a secure location. They rejected out the 20 that were unsecured. The KC canvassing board did its job properly on this.
So out of the 5 things you’ve offered as “proof” that there are election problems, you have counter-evidence (or no evidence) for 2-5. #1 is still an open question.
It’s good to keep asking questions, I support you in that. But don’t believe everything you read or hear from the wingnuts. They have a long history (including in this election saga) of tossing out allegations that turn out to go nowhere.
Erik-
You still don’t get it: we’re talking about 3,500 more votes counted than actual, real life, ballots cast. You have to actually have a BALLOT to coincide with each vote counted in the final tally. I’m afraid that’s just the way it works. KC has to do some real serious accounting within the next week or two or this election is going to be thrown out! How ironic that the county that worked so hard to put Queen Christine in the Big House might actually in the end be responsible for her demise.
paul daniel
But it isnt Spokane county, it is the 800 pound gorrila and the libs think its ok!
Paul – you still don’t get it. If the allegations are true, yes, it’s a problem. But you’re jumping up and down telling us that it’s true when the county is question is still doing it’s job and the source of your data has been proven wrong (whether spinning the facts in his favor or going on faulty assumptions) on numerous occasions. The Republicans have done a bang-up job of presenting innuendo, conjecture, rumors and outright lies as “fact” during this election recount saga. So please excuse us if we don’t jump every time new allegations are trotted out by the wingnuts.
Some of us like to get all our facts before we make our “irrefutable” conclusions.
And Chuck – no one on this board has made a peep about all the mistakes corrected (many at higher error % rates) in “Rossi” counties across the state. You may believe that’s because we “knew” KC would make up the difference, but it’s actually because we don’t believe in wacky conspiracy theories like you.
If KC “800-lb gorilla”, then the rest of the state is a 1600-lb elephant. KC exerts no more effect than what it deserves (1/3 of the state’s population). Don’t blame us because the rest of the great state of WA isn’t the destination of choice for newcomers, new jobs, new industries, etc. Don’t blame us because Garfield county’s population is shrinking. Etc.
Typical Gregovych supporter. Just typical. Comrade Erik
Thanks for trying label me as a communist. However, the effort may have been more effective if you had used the words Ukraine and Marummy and mentioned something about Orange.
john–
I already have one of those…and wear it faithfully everywhere I blog! I guess that’s why I’ve got a handle on things here while the paranoid Lefty’s resort unwittingly to denial.
jcricket–
The cover-up is always more offensive than the original acts of stupidity & incompetence. Election officials have had plenty of time, and still could, just admit some of the “errors, wrongful acts & neglect”. Public record requests in King County WILL ferret out all the changes made to the election database since election day. Understand? I didn’t think so.
“There is nothing worse than aggressive stupidity”
—Johan Wolfgang von Goethe
Gregoire will regret the day she didn’t accept Rossi’s re-vote olive branch. It would have allowed us all to move forward. Gregoire has essentially said AGGRESSIVELY “bring it on”. She has done this “STUPIDLY” by not having her own people validate what has transpired in KingCo, including those 400+ affadavits her Party Chair, Mr. Berendt, brought in and personally attested to their validity.
I know this must be driving jcricket & others absolutely crazy. 3 more weeks to wait jcricket…for Rossi to put up or shut up. Keep saying he has nothing…stick your jaw way out there dude!
jcricket,
Who is making “irrefutable” conclusions? I’m not. Most of the people I’ve read aren’t. It’s certainly possible that King County could get it together. I also don’t happen to believe there has to be conspiracy or fraud. We’re not all a bunch of “wingnuts.” However, in listening to Dean Logan and the KC crew you don’t sense a great deal of confidence in their ablity to rectify the discrepincy. Logan said he was a little uneasy with the 3,500 number difference. He said something to the effect that if it were only 1,000 or 1,200 he would feel a lot better. You’ve got to be kidding: with 129 vote winning margin he would feel OK if there were only 1,200 unexplained votes. Would you feel OK with that j? Seriously? Also, the issue of the discrepency IS irrefutable. Sharkansky didn’t invent that! Those are the KC numbers, albeit, preliminary though it may be. But doesn’t anyone besides me have a sense that they could have been required to match these numbers BEFORE the elction was certified?
paul daniel
Mr C – you mean all those Bible Belt colleges run by the churches who were telling us God has annointed Bush – well they don’t give credit for civic acivism like voter regulation 101 – —
Mr C- get to the phone and Call Bob Jones and Liberty Bell and hundreds of others. BYU maybe…..tell ’em they are one step behind.
Peter,
Oh boy. Here we go. It’s time to resort to religous bigotry. It has always amazed me how the so “tolereant” left can be so intolerant towards selected targets. Gays? No. Black? No. Hispanics? No. Bible Belt Christian? Yeh! Let’s make fun of them and call them names. This shall display the true nature of our tolerant, liberal hearts. Truely progressive indeed!
paul daniel
And Chuck – no one on this board has made a peep about all the mistakes corrected (many at higher error % rates) in “Rossi” counties across the state. You may believe that’s because we “knew” KC would make up the difference, but it’s actually because we don’t believe in wacky conspiracy theories like you.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Which if true is another example of why we need a revote, so all od those Gregoire voters dont feel disenfranchised. I saw many upset liberals interviewed on the news that wanted a revote…
Carl – the standards are higher than that now…..need to allow vote on line- and in addition – use prioity post to speed the ballots. Simple.
On the Armed Services end there are designated petty officers who help with voting issues in eah unit. Bet they would have some excellent ideas. Cal the Navy.
Listen up all nutwing R’s – US Senator patty Murrry is the most vocal supporter of the troops in congress. Real support like pay raises and keeping the VA funded for hospitals, etc.
Senator Murry will back any actioned needed to help solve problems in militiary voting – call her. Nice grounded lady. Great power in congress, also on the Senate approprations committee.
Repeat – call Murray or email her. She will be Ms. FixIt….not just talk and accuations.
Good God! All this concern about more ballots than voters. I assume you’re outraged about Ohio, then?
Let’s face it. All this outrage is just because Republicans are so used to stealing elections they can’t stand the idea that the Ds may have figured out how to do it, too.
Elections, like life, aren’t always fair. There’s no telling who really benefitted from all the nonsense in the final tally. All we know for sure is that Chris Gregoire is going to be a great governor.
Peter – great idea. I know Patty would get on this at once. Vets and their groups love her…..I have always supported her. Seems she tromped ForgotHisNameFrom Somwhere – traded her K-Mart tennis shoes for steel toed combat boots. Go Patty.
Keep trying Cynical. You can keep putting quotes around your favorite phrase of the week (“errors, neglect, wrongful acts”), but that doesn’t make it any more solid as evidence. You’re right, Republicans have three weeks to put up or shut up. I will laugh my ass off when those three weeks go by just like the last two months, with nothing more than allegations, innuendo and speculation always proven wrong by the facts.
Must be killing you the Republicans haven’t been able to prove a single thing so far, and that your candidate is not Governor-elect anymore. Republicans will rue the day they decided to continue their typical efforts at voter suppression. Nothing I like more than a Republican hoisted by his own petard.
Come on Cheryl,
Bush won in Ohio by 118,000 votes. Even after the recount he only lost 300. How do you compare that to a 129 vote margin for Christine? On top of that he won the poular vote this time around by almost 3 million! What does he have to do for you to accept that he won? If Gregoire had won by a mere 2 0r 3 thousand votes most of us would have said, “Hey, that’s the way it goes. Rossi for Senate in 06.” But that’s not the way it happened. And whether you like it or not KC is actually going to have to show that they have real ballots to support the final tally.
paul daniel
paul daniel
Oh Paul, Poor P – are you telling me no on can comment on these sham colleges and the poor eduction many give – and then be accused of persecuting Christians? In a country where 50 of the population goes to Christian Churches?
Paul – lighten up. Anyone who sends the kids to Bible Belt U – more power to them – money poorly spent.
I have an abiding faith – and when I get closer to him, will have a lot of quetions for brother Jesus.
I fear thocracy most of all in my politics.
jcricket: “those three weeks go by just like the last two months, with nothing more than allegations, innuendo and speculation” BECAUSE King County elections can’t get it’s act together and do their job properly! It’s ridiculous that Rossi should have to wait till the end of nect week to get the “facts” about the 3500 (extra?) votes counted. That is the problem and to those of us with a mean-spirited cynical mindset it looks and smells like a rotten setup.
Funny how recounts done by machine spit out ballots that
can’t be read always seem to be D’s who are too stupid
to fill the fucking thing out correctly. Then they have
to held up to the light to devine the intent. Gregoire
must be proud of her constituents. You can have her.
Oh bby,
This Theocracy canard is just plain silly! Everyone knows that, by far, the largest evangelical church in the south are Southern Baptist’s. I don’t happen to be one but I know this, they are about as democratic a group as you’ll ever find. In fact they vote on everything; sometimes two or three times. bby, please seriously, there is absolutely no danger of a Theocracy in this nation period.This notion that somehow religion being involved in politics is “scary” is just not founded in historical fact. In our country religion has ALWAYS been involved in politics. It started with the Puritans and then carried over to the Abolitionist and Progressives, many of whom were evangelical christians driven by there faith to make a differnce through politics.
paul daniel
ZIP – I read your home blog and weep. So many good lives tained by the curse of paranoia. It is a form of neurotic behavior.
No trust in any of the folks who are your co-workers, live down the street, send the money to charity just like you. Neo cons use it as part of a propagada screen to divide people. Very Nazi, the Jew, the homo, the unionist, the commie, racially impure — all enemies in the vast webb of paranoid propaganda they ruled Germany with. Cost the world 100 million lives and untold misery.
All bullshit and baloney. All utterly revolting. Beware, of the accuations that point in all directions as if other people are somehow diferrent than ourselves.
Sad, but also dangerous.
Bob from Boeing-
“Beware, of the accusations that point in all directions as if other people are somehow different than ourselves.”
Hm, like calling neocons and conservatives Nazis?
Good point.
paul daniel
I do not agree – Bush has funded religious groups from White House slush funds, after losing in the congress. Over 1 billion – there is a reaon that Southern B. guy is on Fox supporting him.
Note some churches feel like I do. The divide between church and state is very blurred and fading fast.
bby and bob: what in the world are you both smoking? Get a grip on things and leave Bush, religion, and the Nazi’s out of it: my comments were about the farce that this election has become and nothing more.
and Bob, what is my home blog? To my knowledge I have no home blog.
Careful study of the Nazi era shows a very succesfull use of propaganda. They wrote the modern book. The lie becomes truth, the story over rides the truth. Using ultra nationalism and its compelling cries to stifle dissent to the propaganda of the govt…..so forth.
It is at the same time horrible, but a text book.
I suggest the neo cons are borrowing many pages from the text. I did not say they were Nazi.
I see a set of tactics coming into Americian politics and I then fear their use and the trail they have evolved to in other places in modern history.
I believe Amrica has the political will and the self interst in its powerful democrcy to self correct these trends …. but I fear them.
Comment by jcricket— 1/1/05 @ 11:37 am
King County cannot possibly reconcile their ballot count with actual voters. The 3,539 surplus of ballots over voters is just a net figure. In the precincts that have more ballots than voters, there is a total surplus of 5,051 ballots over voters.
However, there are 684 precincts than actually have fewer ballots counted than people who actually voted. In those precincts, there is a surplus of 1,512 actual voters over ballots counted.
These figures do not “net” out in reality. A ballot cannot be somehow misplaced and put in the wrong precinct pile. Each ballot is labeled for its precinct and has a computer barcode for that precinct. In a machine count, ballots are mixed by precinct (even at the polling place, where one machine several several precincts at the same location) and given credit by the barcode. In the manual recount, the ballots were sorted by precinct, and very carefully checked and double-checked and triple-checked, etc.
As for the surplus-ballot precincts, I will concede that it is always possible that King County will be able to identify another 5,051 actual voters who voted in those precincts. However, given the sheer magnitude of this discrepancy, I don’t consider this to be very likely.
As for the 684 precincts that have 1,512 more actual voters than ballots counted, King County can never resolve this discrepancy. They simply cannot find another 1,512 ballots to make these numbers match up.
So the absolutely impossible to reconcile discrepancy is going to be at least these 1,512 missing ballots — which is nearly 12 times Gregoire’s apparent margin of victory.
This will nullify Gregoire’s apparent election victory and mandate a new election. Had Rossi won the election by 261 or 42 (or indeed by anything less than 1,512, or possibly even 6,563), his apparent election victory would have been nullified, and a new election would have been necessary as well.
Of course, under either scenario, the voters would tend to hold failures in Democrat-controlled King County against Gregoire, and tend to swing towards Rossi in a re-vote.
I’m trying to lay off the blog today, but I thought I’d just chime in for a moment. Personally, I would urge restraint in calling the neo-cons “Nazis”… it demeans and trivializes the suffering of the Nazi’s victims.
However, strictly speaking, I think it fair to point out the “fascist” tendencies exhibited by many in the neo-con movement, including some members of the Repubican leadership, and those corporations and organizations that support them. For example, of particular concern to me are the government protected media oligarchs who exploit their monopoly to propagandize on behalf of their government benefactors.
Nazism was a perversion of Fascism, and the two are not synonymous.
Richard – what happens when a voter at a polling place gets a ballot- and then takes it home?
Comment by Richard Pope— 1/1/05 @ 1:28 pm
Richard – as Goldy has said many times, garbage in, garbage out. I remember all the spreadsheets that the Snark posted and updated during the original count. None of them held up when the count was through. I’m reserving judgement on whether or not it’s possible for KC to “reconcile” against the numbers you keep citing as definitive until I see definitive numbers. Sure, it’s possible you’re right. But at this point it’s more likely (given the history of the statistical analyses performed at unSound Politics) that you’re using faulty data and assumptions on which to build your argument and conclusions.
Bob,
Do you really think conservatives or neocons have a monopoly on using propaganda to further their cause. And can anyone realistically claim a stifling of desent in this country with the likes of Michael Moore, Fareheit 911, and Moveon.org? Oh please.
Also, all nationalis are not fascists and all fascists are not nationalists. There is nothing inherently wrong with nationism as a matter of fact. Perhaps there is something more wrong with the self loathing anti-nationalists on the left? Especially since it is the nationalist necons who are promoting human dignity and freedom from tyranny.
paul daniel
jcricket – I think #1 is still up for consideration, but I certainly would be alarmed and would have withheld certification.
Now, according to the SIGNED declarations – it wasn’t white out tape but white-out bottles.
#3 – I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. Same thing on SecState Reed.
#4 – I have several reports from the mainstream media, and even Dean Logan’s own admission that blank ballots were unsecured. Want more data?
#5. The two ballots WERE with the other 20 in the machine. But yes, “they rejected out the 20 that were unsecured. The KC canvassing board did its job properly on this.” It’s just that’s concerning when before the State Supreme’s second ruling, Gregovych had only a 10 vote lead.
Otherwise, good post Comrade jcricket :-).
Comment by Erik— 1/1/05 @ 11:52 am
I’ll take you up on that – please understand my attempt at humor, doubly so since Rossi HQ is open today – I think a guy in Ukraine needs your help after a successful revote that cost him a Presidency he stole named Yankovych or something like that. And Marummy Lane is awaiting your call, Comrade :-). We need a good OPFOR commander… :-)!
GO DINO! SAVE OUR STATE!
Comment by jcricket— 1/1/05 @ 1:53 pm
Both the Shark and the Horse’s Posterior used the same spreadsheet analysis to predict how the uncounted votes during the initial count would break down between Gregoire and Rossi. These predictions were based on how each county had voted so far, as being a prediction how the uncounted votes would fall. The Shark and Horse’s Rear End even came up with the same predictions.
Figuring out discrepancies between voters and ballots is much easier. It doesn’t require statistical formulas. Nor does it even require multiplication and division. It simply requires counting, addition, and subtraction.
The only data required is (1) the computer disk from King County elections listing all of the people who actually voted on November 2, 2004, and (2) the precinct canvass files, which show the vote breakdown by precinct, and can be downloaded for the manual recount, machine recount, and original count.
I am surprised that Goldy hasn’t done his own analysis of the data. I can understand why he wouldn’t. He would come up with the exact same discrepancies that the Shark is coming up with. If the scenario was reversed, and Rossi was marginally ahead of Gregoire, I think Goldy would be breaking the news to the world about how the King County irregularities vastly exceeded Rossi’s victory margin …
I love listening to the blather of the left-wingnuts. Ever notice how most of their lives are being against something? Pitiful!
Around here, we call ’em CAVE people. That’s Citizens Against Virtually Everything. There idea of diversity is to allow BANANA people(Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything!) a seat at their table. Unfortunately for those of us who pay lots of taxes, these anti- people are your typical government bureaucrats…the ones Rossi wants to send packing into the real world. Most of them will shrivel up and blow away when they don’t have that monthly government check and benefit package.
I mentioned previously that the head of the County Auditors Association (loyal Democrat) tried to ram a support letter for Logan thru her organization to send to the papers. BACKFIRED..BIG TIME. None of you heard about this, did you? Just another example of bureaucrats trying to “circle the wagons”. Fortunately some experienced R Auditors said “NO WAY”…how can we validate what Logan has done when none of us has reviewed his actions?? I still believe the best thing that can happen now is to bring in a group of 6 experienced County Auditors into King County to review the mess and see if it’s salvagable. Of course KingCo won’t want that.
KingCo is so incompetent that they actually believe they can cover-up their incompetence!!!! PRICELESS!
Comment by jcricket— 1/1/05 @ 11:51 am
I try not to blame King County as a whole for being a big gorilla…
Also, because I’m nice, I’ll admit that I’m pubicly and privately pushing for the Rossi campaign to put forward a dossier laying out the case – for there’s 3 more weeks “for Rossi to put up or shut up.”
Finally, as to “Comment by Richard Pope— 1/1/05 @ 1:28 pm” – I think I can tell the difference between Gregovych and Dean Logan. UNTIL a smoking gun can be produced – let’s can some of the conspiracy theories. I think I hear a few ayes, out there too…
“I mentioned previously that the head of the County Auditors Association (loyal Democrat) tried to ram a support letter for Logan thru her organization to send to the papers. BACKFIRED..BIG TIME. None of you heard about this, did you? Just another example of bureaucrats trying to “circle the wagons”. Fortunately some experienced R Auditors said “NO WAY”…how can we validate what Logan has done when none of us has reviewed his actions?? I still believe the best thing that can happen now is to bring in a group of 6 experienced County Auditors into King County to review the mess and see if it’s salvagable. Of course KingCo won’t want that.”
Mr. Cynical, if I wanted to verify this – where would I go?
“I am surprised that Goldy hasn’t done his own analysis of the data. I can understand why he wouldn’t. He would come up with the exact same discrepancies that the Shark is coming up with. If the scenario was reversed, and Rossi was marginally ahead of Gregoire, I think Goldy would be breaking the news to the world about how the King County irregularities vastly exceeded Rossi’s victory margin … ”
Comment by Richard Pope— 1/1/05 @ 2:46 pm
GOOD POINT!
Okay, I’m going to come back in a few hours…
Bob here for Paul – oh, please…. I am searching my memory – even went on line to see how many times USA has went to war in the last 20 years, big war, like shall we postulate, like Iraq – to free those in thrall to injustice. Can’t find any – BUT- wait are those pictures of oil wells, and piplenes- But, WAIT- is that the sand pile with the Earths 2nd largest proven oil reserves- AND, Wait- new data, maybe more oil than the rest of the world put together. – But, wait…………..oh please, it is not about Democracy, we kill them and devastate their country to deliver them from the Europens and Asians who were about to buy their oil….with no comission to Texas oil barons….
Oh, please for sure….. Iraq represent oil weath beyond comprehension. Not billions but hundreds of trillions over time.
Bush and his buddies- the Texas oil magnates have their manicured hands on it and a lot of blood as well – who cares whose- will be cheap for themat any price in contrast to what they stand to benefit.
Pure utter, Biblical Ten Commandment – forbidden GREED at its worst……..makes Enron look like little piddle by contrast
Oh, please.
josef–
Call your Skagit County Auditor and ask for copies of any correspondence from “Corky” (I think that’s the name of the Auditors Assoc. President) and while your at it, ask for any other related correspondence too. It’s my understanding there were some responses e-mailed around too. And all ask your Auditor if there were any phone calls on this matter. Happy hunting!
Paul – by the way – the only definition of fascism is a nationalist movement that fuses with corporate/big business – Italy’s Mussolini expounded at length on the great marriage – the corporate state and he nationalist state. All interests merged to the greater goals and glory….ad nauseum
Germany’s fascists first struck their devilish bargins with the Old Royals and then the great industrialist machine of that country. ie – Krupp, Mercedes, et all – yes, that is fascism.
Not just hometown Johnny Birch stuff. Have had some American version of that for 200 years
Cynical, go play with the t**ds. Best posts on such a topic I have ever read on any blog. Honorary Title to You, but I can’t stand to write it…many wrongful errors, Take It To The Judges
josef–
Norma Brummett is your County Auditor, She is also the Secretary of the Washington State Association of County Auditors (WSACA). They have a website but I think you have to go thru the Washington Association of County Officials website to get there.
Sorry, I forgot to save the link.
They list all the officers.
The President is Corky Mattingly from Yakima Co. Don’t call her because I understand Corky authored and promoted this proposed letter. If Norma won’t give it to you, do a public records request OR call one of the other association officers.
Mr C- Take it To The Judges
Bob,
Oh, please… fascist stifle descent… can you imagine Michael Moore being allowed to make his movie in Hitler’s Germany or Mussilini’s Italy? How about your nice little rant about Bush being some sort of evil, Count Dracula, blood sucking capitalist’s monster… anyone stifling your dissent? Do think you could have written that in Germany about Hitler, let’s say in 1939. Could you have gotten away with writing it about Stalin or Mao during their reigns of terror. Stifling of dissent my ass!
Oh please…right wing necons are the fascist who utilize propaganda… not the socialist… definately not Michael Moore or the Moveon.org crowd. It’s just the right wing neocons. These are the dangerous ones. Watch out or they might even bite!
Oh, please… it’s all about OIL, OIL, OIL… Of course oil has SOMETHING to do with it. The world runs on oil. That’s pretty undeniable isn’t it! However, if this were really about Bush’s personal greed for oil money or Enron and all that crap, then there are certainly easier ways to get it(like hey let’s make a deal with Saddam like the French and Russians did). And if this really about making money why are we Billions of dollars in the hole!? Money we’ll probably never recoup.
And what about human rights and tyranny and dictators. What happened to the left on all of this. All we here is “Well Saddam was a bad guy but….” but the truth is if the Bush haters had ther way Saddam would still be doing his thing. Some even think it would be better that way. Go figure!
paul daniel
Comment by Mr. Cynical— 1/1/05 @ 3:24 pm
I’ll e-mail a request and report back…
This is the WASHINGTON STATE ASSOCIATION OF COUNTY AUDITORS homepage:
http://d30060429.purehost.com/.....CAHome.htm
Comment by Mr. Cynical— 1/1/05 @ 3:45 pm
I just sent the e-mail. I’ll give her until Tuesday, then do the FOIA maneuver or call around for a copy. I’d preferably not do that. I figure if it’s meant for publication, we’ll get a copy. And yes – Goldy – I will e-mail you a copy.
I see four possible reasons for this:
1) King County has yet to release all of their information… (or fabricate it, if you believe that is what they do).
2) King County Elections workers as a group are grossly mismanaged. This is quite likely (and some would believe that SoundPolitics has shown this beyond a reasonable doubt), and may have resulted in #1 above.
3) Major acts of fraud. This isn’t as likely. Think logically through this – though the chances of getting caught are minimal, the chances of fraud paying off are also minimal. Personally, I wouldn’t wage my own freedom on trying to get someone elected. Sort of defeats the purpose, ya think?
4) Distributed voter fraud.
Definitely check out the posts of Jim Miller regarding distributed voter fraud.
What does this mean? If #1 is correct, we just need to wait longer. I believe we can agree that #2 is correct – and this leads us to encourage management turnover and new voting procedures. One I would recommend would be showing photo identification. If #3 did actually happen, it would be the most likely grounds for contest — though don’t expect much media investigation on this front. #4 is by far the most likely, though in my mind, it is also the hardest to remedy. I am also unsure if Dino Rossi could contest the election successfully — even if his backers and the general public (such as readers of SoundPolitics more than this site) were able to show over 130 acts of distributed voter fraud.
Forgive me for being cynical, but I see this fight dying a slow death. The local Mainstream Media has not been able to follow the investigations done by SoundPolitics, this race has gotten little to no coverage in national political circles — the recount in Ohio made far greater news, and with other major world events taking place, I don’t see this story and investigation getting the tracking that it needs.
What do I suggest? Not much… the only thing I could hope for is more education. If you’re a Rossi backer, don’t mindlessly spout rhetoric about a “stolen” election. Speak to the truths — that there were irregularities, and has been reluctance by those involved to release the information that has been requested. If you’re a Gregoire backer, realize what her campaign has released as statements. Realize that the closeness of 261 and 42 votes were called “virtual ties”. However, now that all reasonable legal paths have been taken, a margin of 129 is a clear-cut win. Put yourselves in the shoes of a Rossi backer. Assume the tables were flipped. Had Gregoire won the first two counts and Rossi won this recount by 129 votes, would it still be reasonable for Gregoire to pursue other paths? Or would it simply be the end?
Comment by bmvaughn— 1/1/05 @ 5:15 pm
FYI: This was just posted on SoundPolitics.com.
Jim Miller’s theory is the silliest thing I have ever read. Even beats abstinance as sex eduction in the years the hormones are raging..
How totally absurd. You start with the conclusion you would like, I don’t like Democrats, therefore — then propose a theory that is from the clear blue sky to prove some facet of your dislike.
Well, I forgot. R’s can foretell all with the magic eightball, coupled with numerology and the seat of their satin drawers. Oh, please.
Why the fuck should I waste my time analyzing discrepancies in P-R-E-L-I-M-I-N-A-R-Y data, that is going to change the end of next week?
Besides, unlike the Snark, I prefer to seek out an expert’s advice instead of prentending I am one.
Paul, you and I are in debt. Corporate America spends little on taxes. They carry home the mega bucks and we pay off the national debt. Wage earners.
The Frency had signed contracts with Iraq which were voided when we invaded, as were all the other oil contracts….It is evident that China and Japan will pay almost any price for any oil. They have none.
You are putting words into my mouth. I did not say there is no Freedom of Speech. But that text book propaganda campaigns have been used very well in the past ten yers. And the R’s have perfected the technique.
Michael Moore is a fluke. Perfect timing. Just why is he so hated by you’all? Too close for comfort to the truth?
Oh, I forgot. He needed to ask Rush Limbaugh and Karl Rove for permission to put out his viewpoint. He didn’t and you hate him for that indepencence which is not the party line, and very widely viewed and discussed, and even made tens of millions. Even won the Cannes film award, those filthy international communist dumb ass film critics…..Oh, please.
“Why the fuck should I waste my time analyzing discrepancies in P-R-E-L-I-M-I-N-A-R-Y data, that is going to change the end of next week?”
You mean preliminary data that should been reconciled before the result was certified? This is the data on which the result was certified, was it not? Then it’s not preliminary, or KC committed a crime in certifying their results.
I know the dems are on the run because they have pulled out their last two defenses… After deny, deny, deny fails, they always resort to “so what, everybody does it” and “we’re not criminals, we’re just incompetent.”
bby: “But that text book propaganda campaigns have been used very well in the past ten yers. And the R’s have perfected the technique”
Check out todays doonesbury for a perfect example of where you’re wrong. This is a textbook example of what many of us have been bothered by from the lefties. Oh, and if you’re planing on slamming Ms. Rice as a response don;t bother.
As for corporate america not paying taxes, small business in this state is incredibly highly taxed by the B&O tax. They are corporate america in the non-propogandists view.
Ranger: T-A-K-E I-T T-O T-H-E J-U-D-GE-S
Lacking a lot of time – Many of us here getting ready for the swearing in and the gala party. Think Kerry might be there – or Bill and Senator Clinton. Dem. high time and big celebrity night in Olympia.
2005-2009 – the Years of the Gregoire.
ZIP – finally we agree. Because it is a gross tax on business income, needs to be changed. Totally unfar and regressive.
I refer to all the Mega Corps., which you should resent too, who use every loophole and trick to avoid paying taxes and even get special legislation. A scandal, used to be called Corporate Welfare.
Not a new story, but sure nice for them and screws the wage earners. and small businesses.
bby: pinch me, we agree.
!
Comment by Ranger— 1/1/05 @ 6:18 pm
“You mean preliminary data that should been reconciled before the result was certified? This is the data on which the result was certified, was it not? Then it’s not preliminary, or KC committed a crime in certifying their results.”
GOOD POINT. As per prelim data, we’ll have to wait & see – but take note of this snippet from the Seattle Times last Friday:
– – – – –
King County Elections Director Dean Logan said it is not unusual to find a discrepancy that must be reconciled through a painstaking comparison of computer data and other records after votes are counted. He said that two recounts have meant the county could not do that work as quickly as usual.
But the discrepancy in this election appears to be larger than usual.
“I think historically the data has never been reconciled 100 percent between ballots cast and the voters given credit for voting,” Logan said. “I think 3,500 is higher than what I’m comfortable with. … I would be less concerned if we were in the range of 1,000 or 1,200.”
And he thinks the problem will be rectified.
Logan explained part of the discrepancy by saying the voter list doesn’t include two categories of voters: domestic-violence victims whose addresses are confidential and military or overseas voters who cast ballots under special rules. He estimated the number of those votes at between 100 and 200 for each category.
That leaves most of the 3,539-vote discrepancy unexplained.
– – – – –
Hmmm… maybe I’m right, we have a problem!
ranger–
Right-on brother! P-R-E-L-I-M-I-N-A-R-Y my ass! The certification looks mighty final to me Goldy.
And I really hope Sen. Kerry does come to the gala. He can look like a dork once again when the facts hit the fan in 3 weeks.
I also hope Hillary shows up to. It will be the kiss of death for her Presidential hopes to. Hell, I hope McAuliffe and all the Left wingnuts show up.
josef–Good job on tracking that County Auditor’s info down. I’ll try to get it on Monday too. The e-mail was read to me over the phone. If it went to the County Auditors e-mail..IT IS A PUBLIC RECORD!!! A good thing for KingCo Election folks to understand too. That’s why the R’s made the request.
And Dean Logan “thinks” the reconciliation problem will be rectified??? THINKS!!! It’s NEVER reconciled 100% (reconciled does allow for adding domestic violence victim voters and other special rule items). With those adjustments, it has to be 100%.
I doubt Dean Logan will be able to “rectify” this…….
with his track record, he is more likely to “rectum-fy it!!!
King County is an easy target. For several years now there have been significant budget cuts. Who’s the first to go? Administrative staff such as those who would be in the Elections Office. Those folks who remain have been working for weeks straight to count then recount. It’s a lot more fun to believe in conspiricy theories than to accept that there are a large number of votes counted by a small group of over-worked folks. Now they are hit with disclosure requests for their e-mail. These things do take time.
K–
I hear what you are saying…but absolutely no sympathy from me.
What have they been doing the last 2 years? Last 4 years?
And shouldn’t this then fall back on the shoulders of Ron Sims and the KingCo Council?
I haven’t read a lot of “conspiracy theories” “K”.
Accountability is not a conspiracy theory.
Rather than you make excuses from the KingCo Election folks, why don’t they come out publicly and say they were way underfunded???
When you certify an election WITHOUT reconciling the # of voters credited for voting with the total ballots counted, you deserve whatever you get “K”.
Nope…no sympathy sale here. Too late.
If what you say is true, Dean Logan needs the balls to publicly admit it. He won’t though. Why? Because it would make his bosses and fellow Dems look very bad indeed for their Budget decisions. Catch-22.
Damned if you admit the underfunding….and labeled as grossly incompetent if you don’t. Dean Logan has been way to quiet. Why don’t you call him and ask him to come out publicly if what you say K is true??
If you believe any request for more administrative staff would have been approved in the last 2 or 4 years would have been supported yor are out of touch. I have seen the “conspiracy” implications, if not theories. Allegations that King County deliberately committed acts to affect the outcome. These allegations ignore the fact that the Executive staff does not support Gregoire.
We have just seen an election closer than any ever seen. It therefore requires more effort to sort out than ever before. The current political environment simply does not support having enough resources on hand to manage such an extraordinary event. No doubt of it were a 60/40 split votes would have been counted and every one would have gone home. If Logan asked to have enough staff to handle such events (which have never before happened it would have never made it through the budget process.
K, you sem to be making the same point that Rossi supporters make: there were screw ups, the election was really really close, so why should anybody believe the “result” we are told. Especially since King County is the one telling us. Budget cuts are no excuse, this election was like their super bowl for the election workers. Somebody (Logan) should have planned better for this considering it was well known this summer that high turnout would occur.
King County is not telling us. The election was certified by Sam Reed on behalf of the State. To say it was the Super Bowl and they should be prepared betrays an ignorance of the process. If Logan said in April (when County budgets are prepared) “I think there will be a close election give me some extra staff” imagine the response.
The election was really close. And any system has a margin of error. The outcome was within the margin of error, possibly for the first time. The “D’s” did have a better end game , and won.
K, you work in government, right? That’s got to be where the “ignorance of the process” diss comes from. If that is the case, you are biased (the budget is never good ebough is it?)
Logan can not use budget problems as an excuse, because once he knew how many more people voted (election day) his job was to get it done. Counting votes is what this department is all about, and once evry four years is the biggie. That’s why I say it’s their Super Bowl. How about getting some overtime approved during the first count? The slow pace of the first count leads me to believe that never happened.
Incompetent management, not budget cuts.
K–
The next 3 weeks will either bear out what you suspect..or not.
You miss the point. KingCo has repeatedly struggled with the Election Dept. It is Logan’s job to make sure ballots counted reconciles with voters given credit for voting. There is no excuse for not doing so before certifying. If little Jefferson Co. with 18,772 votes can do it ALL 3 counts and other County’s did it as well, KingCo has no acceptable excuses (especially after the 3rd county). Over the last 2 months, Logan has had ample opportunity to ask for a supplemental budget. Are you saying 2 months ago, he didn’t know this would be closely contested? Give me a break.
I don’t subscribe to mass conspiracy theories. Way to many people involved here. I do believe in mass incompetance in having a system where you don’t reconcile and are constantly finding additional ballots. I also believe it’s easy to just “go along to get along” and “circle the wagons” to try and deflect criticism. Then when all else fails, you say you are overworked.
Bad try K–No Sale!!
If you believe a supplimental budget is possible between November and January, you truely do not know government process.
If you consider JeffCo’s ability to count it’s few ballots comparible to KingCo’s many, you’re kidding yourself.
One more point–
Jefferson Co., with only 2 Election Dept staff, physically seperates ballots by precindt PRIOR to the original count. WHY? So they can more easily reconcile Totals. They had 1 precindt, I think it was 401, where there were 5 more voters given credit for voting than ballots counted. They ran that precindt again and this time it matched. Most likely some ballots stuck together the 1st time. The point is, it wasn’t an error BECAUSE THEY CAUGHT IT BEFORE THEY CERTIFIED. THAT IS THE ELECTION DEPTS. JOB!!!
K–I think you are a government worker and Dem. becuase you appear to subscribe to “close enough..especially since I won” theory. That is ignorance my friend. If the Totals aren’t reconciled and withstand scrutiny, this will be a revote. And the Dems will be punished for having such a “low bar” for competency. You may blow this off…but if you can’t reconcile, I doubt the Courts will blow it off. And if there is a revote, certainly the voters won’t.
The Dems should be working closely with the R’s to make sure this is right and if not, join them in calling for a revote. Instead, the Dems have hung themselves out on a log over a cliff. If there is a revote because of this, can you imagine the Rossi ads about incompetence and cover-ups!!! Gregoire should have accepted the olive branch from Rossi and asked for a revote. We’ll see.
K-
Trust me, I know government process. In this case, any reasonable body would have approved it in a second…unless they wanted ineptness and confusion.
And yes, I would compare little Jefferson County. Obviously K you are not a systems person. I am. It takes intense preparation, a well thought out system of ballot-handling and management and checks & balances…including reconciling each precindt. NO EXCUSES K. I’m sure it’s frustrating to see the great KingCo with the spotlight on it. It won’t go away. Too many bright people are turning this upside down and shaking it. Rather than waste your time being a cheerleader K, why don’t you help us investigate and improve things??
I was an Elected official and chaired the Finance Committee. Most municipality’s have emergency or discretionary funds available for the Executive. Was Sims ever approached for more money? Did he deny funding? We’ll see.
I am a Democrat and a government worker, and a King Coounty employee to boot.
My gripe is that Republicans want small government, the fewest employees possible, yet when something happens, they expect all resources necessary to give them what they want RIGHT NOW!
You reeep whst you sow my friend. Call for as few as necessary to do the minimum possible, and when the extraordinary event occurs, which we all must agree has happened, you got to live with it.
As an aside, I think with the Dem’s controlling the legislature it may be better to see what Dino would do. Truely extreme ideas would not get through.
This is another problem with a “re-election”. Conditions have changed. We know the legislative outcome and some true ticket splitters may seek to even the balance of government.
I suspect Sims would rather see Rossi win. Do you remember the primary? Where was the Sims endorsement of Gregiore? How do you think an an election with Rossi v. Sims would turn out this November? Do you recall the results in the Demo primary in King County?
Good night.
K
I tend to support smaller, more cost effective government.
I don’t think I’m in the minority here. In far-Left Pt. Townsend, there was a 53% Property Tax increase on the ballot. It failed be a 2-1 margin in a 70%+ Dem. City. That showed me folks want a tight ship. However it is also to look at discretionary expenses and creat emergency funds for what if’s. King obviusly didn’t do this or they didn’t condier this election an emergency.
Shark’s satirical piece was a lot funnier
CORRECTION – Sims endorsed Gregoire in his full hearty style. He did not run her inept campaign.
How do you blow a ten point lead. Takes bad campaign staff and poor media.
“How do you blow a ten point lead. Takes bad campaign staff and poor media.”
Or just good guys on the other side exposing the sad truth and making Dinocrats out of Democrats…
*Remember the racist (and probably anti-Semetic) sorority she chaired that killed her support w/ the African-American community and led to several hundred write-ins for Ron Sims?
*Remember the anti-transparent stance that more than anything turned me into a Dinocrat & McKennarat – that I blogged about at http://josef-a-k.blogspot.com/.....-mine.html ?
*Remember that Gregovych didn’t act on Marysville…
*Remember that Gregovych stashes documents on the 7E7 deal…
*Remember that Gregovych also had a long, long laundry list of uncosted promises…
bby, I have become fascinated by the lack of any positive cheerleading from Gregoire supporters about: why in the heck do they support her? Is it just becasue she is the democratic nominee and that’s it, end of story? The only positve things anybody (including Trahant in the P-U) seem to be able to say revolve around “she’s a fighter.”
That is why she couldn’t easily carry the state as the media expected her to.
Personally, I support Gregoire because I am a pragmatist. My choice was between Gregoire and Rossi, and I firmly believe that Gregoire was the much better choice. My first choice was Phil Talmadge. When he dropped out, I switched my allegiance to Ron Sims. And when he lost the primary, voting for Gregoire was a no-brainer.
There is a defining difference between Democrats, and the neo-cons who now run the Republican party… Democrats believe in government, and Republicans do not. I do not want a governor, like Rossi, whose main vision for WA’s future is massive deregulation… who will use our perpetual budget crisis as an excuse for slashing government services, instead of looking to fix the underlying inadequacies and inequities in our tax structure.
I’m not convinced that Gregoire will provide the kind of leadership I want from a governor, but I’d rather have the status quo than the solution that Republicans are proposing. Cold, hard, pragmatism on my part. But I can’t speak for other Gregoire supporters.
Goldy, I could turn that over and see the reasons I support Rossi. I think in general the comparison of Gragoire to Bob Dole I saw earlier was the most fitting. She was nominated becasue it was her tuen to maintain the status quo. Not what this state needs right now (IMHO).
I have an idea. On January 11, 2005, both Dino Rossi and Cristine Gregoire should head down to the Secretary of State’s office. Grab the highest-ranking Democrat in the SoS office to officiate along with Sam Reed, a republican, and flip a coin to determine the winner. We really dont know who won.
Where were the Republicans when Rossi was ahead by 42 votes (even smaller than Gregoire’s margin)? Were they calling for a revote? Were they calling the vote counting methods into question? Did they think that the fact that his lead dropped from 261 to 42 was a sure sign that we “didn’t know who won”? Of course not.
So, John, while you’re right that there isn’t a vote counting system in the world that has a small enough margin of error to assure that the results are precise/accurate enough, the rules (as the Republicans are always stating) clearly state that Gregoire is the victor. Just as if Rossi had come out ahead by 10 votes, he would be declared the victor. That’s the best we get in close elections.
The truth of a close election is that (assuming there’s only two candidates) approximately 50% of the people will feel “wronged”, regardless of how “sure” they are who won.
Comment by jcricket— 1/3/05 @ 10:21 am: -Where were the Republicans when Rossi was ahead by 42 votes (even smaller than Gregoire’s margin)? Were they calling for a revote? Were they calling the vote counting methods into question? Did they think that the fact that his lead dropped from 261 to 42 was a sure sign that we “didn’t know who won”? Of course not.
Kinda like the illegitimate governor saying 261 was a “virtual tie” and 42 was a “tie” eh? Pull up those drawers kid, hypocrisy is still hanging out.
What hypocrisy are you talking about? I never called it a “virtual tie” 261 is a small victory, and 42 is a smaller victory than 129.
But given the margin of error, all three are statistical ties. Perhaps you should learn what that means before you come here.
And what I’ve repeatedly pointed out is that the true hypocrisy is the Republicans who declare 42 a huge victory and demand that Gregoire should concede for the good of the state, but not that Gregoire is ahead by more than Dino was, they completely change their tune and act as if they never said those things 3 weeks ago. That’s hypocrisy
BTW, to paraphrase a famous move, you keep using that word (hypocrite), but I do not think it means what you think it means. It doesn’t mean using your own rhetoric against you (“Concede, Rossi”). It doesn’t mean pointing out that Republicans are now requesting the exact thing they went to court to prevent (“We voted against the recanvass before we voted for it”). And it most certainly doesn’t mean requiring that you actually go out and drum up your own support for your argument. I’m not going to “join you” in a call for a re-vote when you’ve spent the last 6 weeks arguing against it, impugning the motives of all Democrats and insulting my chosen candidate.
Simply calling me a hypocrite repeatedly is the tool of a weak opponent who has lost the argument.
Comment by Goldy— 1/2/05 @ 5:30 pm
Me, too. But for those at war with certain elements of state gov’t, Rossi is the last chance in hell of change.
Hey, look jcricket – you can visit http://josef-a-k.blogspot.com and in between my rantings & ravings you can note how early I called for a revote/runoff. See, I don’t need others to think for me, you know?
PLEASE READ CAREFULLY CRICKET – I WILL RE-POST IT IN BOLD FOR YOU – THEN YOU CAN APOLOGIZE.
Kinda like the illegitimate governor saying 261 was a “virtual tie” and 42 was a “tie” eh?
See there? No where was cricket mentioned – unless of course you too are an illegitimate governor that whined about “ties” and “virtual ties” when you were losing. In that case, you don’t need to apologize.
And regarding name calling, I will be glad to refresh your memory with a quote from YOU: “pot:kettle”
The hypocrisy I’m constantly forced to point out is the incessant whining about the so-called bad behavior of the Republicans WHILE CALLING THEM NAMES.
I suppose both sides are whining.I suppose that is what happens when there is no clear winner, the anomolies and illegal votes by far out-number the margin of victory. Oh well I guess that is why the Republicans have called Chris to participate in a revote. We will probably never know who is being a poor sport here, it may be way too close to figure out bad sportsmanship. If us Democrats don’t think She will win if there is a revote, Did she really win?
I didn’t exactly hear the Republicans whining. “If Christene wins I am moving to Idaho”.I sure heard my share of dems wanting to move to Canada.Maybe Christene should move to Canada though, they may want her there.